are you ever gonna seperate DuoQ from SoloQ — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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are you ever gonna seperate DuoQ from SoloQ

felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
edited September 8, 2020 in PVP

problem becomes more and more noticeable as now you kill the population even more. thanks

there's now 0 incentive for any one plat + to play pvp without a duoq partner
even if you do have duoq, if there's a better duoq you will always fight the same duoq until they stop playing
so you may as well just stop playing.

there's 0 possibility for decent fair fight with this system

warrior has been unplayable in pvp
for 6 months till now

good job balance team

Comments

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    Tell me how you seperate soloQ from duoQ in a 5v5 mode

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    Tell me how you seperate soloQ from duoQ in a 5v5 mode

    by making duoq+tripleq
    and soloq alone.

    warrior has been unplayable in pvp
    for 6 months till now

    good job balance team

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:
    problem becomes more and more noticeable as now you kill the population even more. thanks

    there's now 0 incentive for any one plat + to play pvp without a duoq partner
    even if you do have duoq, if there's a better duoq you will always fight the same duoq until they stop playing
    so you may as well just stop playing.

    there's 0 possibility for decent fair fight with this system

    Yea soloq would allow mtchmaking to do better comps ? Ofc

    But u would literally kill pvp population xd Who the kitten would want to play a social comoetitive game alone?

    Also u cant split queues duo low pupulation

    I play soloq myself at plat and that isnt a problem on prime time sometimes i drop to low plat2 but who cares about rating?

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For a lot of players that are experienced, they don’t even fall below plat2 solo Qing and very good ones can even maintain plat3 which at times is semi competitive, at least as far as ranked goes. I would say if you want to play a lot of matches at one time duo q is the way to go though as 1.) comp control 2.) more fun 3.) alittle ezier to maintain or climb rating if you are guaranteed to be with a similar level player

  • @wevh.2903 said:
    But u would literally kill pvp population xd Who the kitten would want to play a social comoetitive game alone?

    If queues are split you can still play with teams or solo. It depends on who is available and what you want at the time.

    Also u cant split queues duo low pupulation

    They shouldn't have added DuoQ back if you want to use that excuse. They restricted DuoQ in the first place because the population was too low to accurately matchmake for legendary and high-plat DuoQs and people were obviously frustrated fighting with/against the best players in the game stacked together at the mid-high gold levels.

    If they can ignore the low population excuse there, then they can ignore it for split queues too. With Solo/Duo merged it's just as boring and as much of a drain as it was the first time before they removed it. It is not like it would be all that much of a split anyway.

    There's a dev comment somewhere around here that mentions upwards of ~90% of either games played or players queuing at any one time are SoloQ.
    If you SoloQ, you're gucci. If you want to DuoQ; you can, but it's going to take longer and the matches are probably going to be more imbalanced.
    The worse thing to be done there is to go and make matchmaking imbalanced for 100% of the population just to satisfy <10% of the population. AKA exactly what happened.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • Metzie.3451Metzie.3451 Member ✭✭
    edited September 9, 2020

    @felix.2386 said:
    problem becomes more and more noticeable as now you kill the population even more. thanks

    there's now 0 incentive for any one plat + to play pvp without a duoq partner
    even if you do have duoq, if there's a better duoq you will always fight the same duoq until they stop playing
    so you may as well just stop playing.

    there's 0 possibility for decent fair fight with this system

    At the time when "Duo-Q" was removed, better players stopped playing, because otherwise it was no longer bearable for them to compete/play (in ranked). This was mentioned in a stream in the presence of a developer (without mentioning names) and criticised. Then Duo-Q was fully reintroduced, without restriction. Yes, because a few top players (if you want to call them like that) criticised that circumstance. I remember it well because I was accidentally present during this "conversation" (stream + chat). That was, in my opinion questionable, but good.

    Now it is unbearable and far worse, because far too many players play in groups (no matter which division), of which (meanwhile) at least one has "no" idea what he or she is doing. Not that other players (in team) don't know what they are doing as well (but, you know...). It just makes the effect worse. However, this is now the rule (as I said, no matter what division). One player plays with an other because he or she finds it more bearable (to play ranked). It is counterproductive and destroys (because the game mode is not already called as "dead", right?) the game mode further into the unbearable.

    If this remains, it will continue to look that way: Good (veteran or top) players play in a duo to their advantage. It remains as it is. Bad and mediocre players play duo to make it more bearable (for them to play ranked). They hope that one of them will carry them through the game to win (just an example). Which minimises the chance of personal progress for other (or new) players in general. Success is missing, frustration remains. Not that it would make much of a difference, but it would at least minimise the "unbearable" state of affairs. According to ANet's policy, the system is doomed to failure and can no longer be saved. Nothing that should not already be known by now.

    The solution, as already mentioned, would be to separate these two. And this could be done without splitting the community (which ANet is afraid of). But this, because ANet does not have the competence and will or clue, will not happen.

    Isn't it nice to saw on your own chair leg and not even notice it? :)

    Basically, this is only a brief description of the current status of PvP.

    Keep the game clean - wait what, ...? REMOVED
    Keep the game clean - wait what, again - oof? REMOVED
    Iam waiting for the next one ...

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    Tell me how you seperate soloQ from duoQ in a 5v5 mode

    by making duoq+tripleq
    and soloq alone.

    Pure genious! Matchmaking is having problems because of low population, lets cut what we have in half.

    Why did I not think of this first?

  • @Bazsi.2734 said:
    Pure genious! Matchmaking is having problems because of low population, lets cut what we have in half.

    Half LUL Thinking Solo/Duos is anywhere near a 50-50 split 🤣

    70-30 at best, more like 90-10 if Anet's own predictions are accurate.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2020

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    For a lot of players that are experienced, they don’t even fall below plat2 solo Qing and very good ones can even maintain plat3 which at times is semi competitive, at least as far as ranked goes. I would say if you want to play a lot of matches at one time duo q is the way to go though as 1.) comp control 2.) more fun 3.) alittle ezier to maintain or climb rating if you are guaranteed to be with a similar level player

    Yes a lot of players, there's currently 6 people on plat 3+ and none of them are soloq, you literally make 0 sense.

    and you realize to stay on plat 2 soloq you have to seriously limit your play time to only weekend nights or else you will get matched with silvers who dies to auto attack, even the best player in the entire world isn't capable of carrying matches like these.

    there's literally max 60 people on plat 2 and 90% of them are duoq and have very limited play time, more then half of them have less the 90 games played, that's 5 hours per 7 days. like 2.5 hours for saturday and sunday and that's it.

    and ofc that's not their whole play time, if you want to compete at the top, 5 hours every week will not make you top players.
    they all just playing on ALT because they know it is impossible to maintaining their ranks without duoq/q dodging/limiting their play time to only weekend.

    ask any plat player if the current ranked is any bearable, it's completely unplayable.

    warrior has been unplayable in pvp
    for 6 months till now

    good job balance team

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2020

    @Metzie.3451 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    problem becomes more and more noticeable as now you kill the population even more. thanks

    there's now 0 incentive for any one plat + to play pvp without a duoq partner
    even if you do have duoq, if there's a better duoq you will always fight the same duoq until they stop playing
    so you may as well just stop playing.

    there's 0 possibility for decent fair fight with this system

    At the time when "Duo-Q" was removed, better players stopped playing, because otherwise it was no longer bearable for them to compete/play (in ranked). This was mentioned in a stream in the presence of a developer (without mentioning names) and criticised. Then Duo-Q was fully reintroduced, without restriction. Yes, because a few top players (if you want to call them like that) criticised that circumstance. I remember it well because I was accidentally present during this "conversation" (stream + chat). That was, in my opinion questionable, but good.

    this is so funny, because currently ranked Q is even more unbearable, it is literally unplayable for plat+ or even gold 3+ players to soloq or even duoq for 5 days out of 7
    by removing duoq can possibly make the game a bit more enjoyable for all people by spreading the skill level even more.

    but ofc, anet only cares about few "top" players/streamer who made friend with devs and don't even ban them for win trade/sell MAT and will do everything to keep them playing.

    warrior has been unplayable in pvp
    for 6 months till now

    good job balance team

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You can everytime soloq, it doesn't matter

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    Pure genious! Matchmaking is having problems because of low population, lets cut what we have in half.

    Half LUL Thinking Solo/Duos is anywhere near a 50-50 split 🤣

    70-30 at best, more like 90-10 if Anet's own predictions are accurate.

    Yes because how many people are playing duoQ would totally remain the same when a duoQ/tripleQ ladder is added. People will go for the titles, even if just for a few seasons, it has serious potential to draw away players from soloQ. So I could end up close to being technically right with "cut in half"... does it matter though? I don't remember making a point thats being contingent on the exact precentages, but thanks for the nitpick.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    For a lot of players that are experienced, they don’t even fall below plat2 solo Qing and very good ones can even maintain plat3 which at times is semi competitive, at least as far as ranked goes. I would say if you want to play a lot of matches at one time duo q is the way to go though as 1.) comp control 2.) more fun 3.) alittle ezier to maintain or climb rating if you are guaranteed to be with a similar level player

    Yes a lot of players, there's currently 6 people on plat 3+ and none of them are soloq, you literally make 0 sense.

    and you realize to stay on plat 2 soloq you have to seriously limit your play time to only weekend nights or else you will get matched with silvers who dies to auto attack, even the best player in the entire world isn't capable of carrying matches like these.

    there's literally max 60 people on plat 2 and 90% of them are duoq and have very limited play time, more then half of them have less the 90 games played, that's 5 hours per 7 days. like 2.5 hours for saturday and sunday and that's it.

    and ofc that's not their whole play time, if you want to compete at the top, 5 hours every week will not make you top players.
    they all just playing on ALT because they know it is impossible to maintaining their ranks without duoq/q dodging/limiting their play time to only weekend.

    ask any plat player if the current ranked is any bearable, it's completely unplayable.

    Idk what region your on but known solo qers are in plat 3 on both regions to my knowledge and yes I mean I know them and I’ve finished seasons solo q, on meme builds actually, in plat 3 also. It’s not that hard...

  • @Bazsi.2734 said:
    Yes because how many people are playing duoQ would totally remain the same when a duoQ/tripleQ ladder is added. People will go for the titles, even if just for a few seasons, it has serious potential to draw away players from soloQ. So I could end up close to being technically right with "cut in half"... does it matter though? I don't remember making a point thats being contingent on the exact precentages, but thanks for the nitpick.

    I'd imagine SoloQ numbers would hardly go down at all.

    Like what exactly is the draw there? What is going to pull a SoloQ player who's probably SoloQ'd since they started playing, to teams suddenly? Fair matchmaking? They'd get that regardless so long as the queues are split, plus they'd finally have the option in the way they'd queued since the start. Doesn't make any sense.
    Titles? I don't think they'd add new titles exclusively for teams, unless TeamQ did away with individual rating in favor of Team rating. The chase for titles would probably be as competitive as it is now; with the top 10-25~ being the same people it is every season spread across however many alts they boosted in said season, and beyond that in top 100-250 you've got players as low as g3 in some cases. Then there's usually a huge rating gap somewhere between plat2 and plat1. Point being, it's not exactly the most nail-biting competition and I don't think adding in queue options is really going to change that.

    But hey; maybe i'm wrong, but that'd be a major plus from a viewer/spectator standpoint. Now they'll actually have to go against the other top players rather than a bunch of random SoloQ bots and pip-farmers. Maybe you're right, and more fair/skill-based matchmaking is exactly what Ranked needs to actually be competitive again.

    And yeah, i'd say the percentage does matter? If you're trying to make the case that the population is too low to split, then the numbers definitely matter, even if its just guesswork. Having 10%(and that's being generous) of Ranked played suddenly poof over to play teams would barely make a noticeable dent in matchmaking, but having 50% would.
    That's also pretending like splitting the queues suddenly means that 10% or 50% of players suddenly vanish altogether. The reality is that with split queues, anyone can swap between Solos/Teams whenever they want. They don't just vanish from matchmaking, and pretty much everyone will probably SoloQ at some point.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    Yes because how many people are playing duoQ would totally remain the same when a duoQ/tripleQ ladder is added. People will go for the titles, even if just for a few seasons, it has serious potential to draw away players from soloQ. So I could end up close to being technically right with "cut in half"... does it matter though? I don't remember making a point thats being contingent on the exact precentages, but thanks for the nitpick.

    I'd imagine SoloQ numbers would hardly go down at all.

    Like what exactly is the draw there? What is going to pull a SoloQ player who's probably SoloQ'd since they started playing, to teams suddenly? Fair matchmaking? They'd get that regardless so long as the queues are split, plus they'd finally have the option in the way they'd queued since the start. Doesn't make any sense.
    Titles? I don't think they'd add new titles exclusively for teams, unless TeamQ did away with individual rating in favor of Team rating. The chase for titles would probably be as competitive as it is now; with the top 10-25~ being the same people it is every season spread across however many alts they boosted in said season, and beyond that in top 100-250 you've got players as low as g3 in some cases. Then there's usually a huge rating gap somewhere between plat2 and plat1. Point being, it's not exactly the most nail-biting competition and I don't think adding in queue options is really going to change that.

    But hey; maybe i'm wrong, but that'd be a major plus from a viewer/spectator standpoint. Now they'll actually have to go against the other top players rather than a bunch of random SoloQ bots and pip-farmers. Maybe you're right, and more fair/skill-based matchmaking is exactly what Ranked needs to actually be competitive again.

    And yeah, i'd say the percentage does matter? If you're trying to make the case that the population is too low to split, then the numbers definitely matter, even if its just guesswork. Having 10%(and that's being generous) of Ranked played suddenly poof over to play teams would barely make a noticeable dent in matchmaking, but having 50% would.
    That's also pretending like splitting the queues suddenly means that 10% or 50% of players suddenly vanish altogether. The reality is that with split queues, anyone can swap between Solos/Teams whenever they want. They don't just vanish from matchmaking, and pretty much everyone will probably SoloQ at some point.

    Since you really seem to hate jokes, here is my original point spelled out dry and boring: Ranked has too low of a population to work even as it is now. Hardly anyone would stop doing their fractals or personal story to do soloQ/teamQ, the current population will be divided among 2 gamemodes. That's bad. We don't want bad.
    Argueing the exact precentages of this divide is utterly pointless.

    Implementing this wouldn't result in fair matchmaking either. 2p+3p groups, thats so many built in asymmetries, you're asking for a bad time.

  • @Bazsi.2734 said:
    Since you really seem to hate jokes, here is my original point spelled out dry and boring: Ranked has too low of a population to work even as it is now. Hardly anyone would stop doing their fractals or personal story to do soloQ/teamQ, the current population will be divided among 2 gamemodes. That's bad. We don't want bad.
    Argueing the exact precentages of this divide is utterly pointless.

    Thank you for using the standardized nice, non-sarcastic, and PMA way of saying things on the GW2 forums, I appreciate it and have up thumbered your comment :)
    I used a lot of words tbf so tl;dr:
    Percentages matter when you're hinting at dividing a low population because the effect of a handful of people refusing to SoloQ isn't anywhere near say half of us doing it.

    It's unfair to just count either side completely out when judging this because reasonably everyone is capable of playing Teams or Solo and could switch between either whenever they want in a split queue system.

    Implementing this wouldn't result in fair matchmaking either. 2p+3p groups, thats so many built in asymmetries, you're asking for a bad time.

    So maybe not exactly fair, but more fair than what we have now. Anet already speculated that teams are going to be imbalanced in a split queue scenario essentially because DuoQ is already imbalanced now, but there's a bunch of lower-rated SoloQs to throw their way to 'make up for' the rating disparity.

    SoloQs are essentially pawns in a gamemode where they represent the vast majority of people playing and that is very unfair and a bad time. I play video game to escape IRL ecopolitical drama, not to have game imitate it.

    In split queues; if you SoloQ, the matchmaking is guaranteed to be more fair in every way.
    And both Teams and Solos would have both sides similar in team-structure even if in nothing else, which also makes the game slightly more fair.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.