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closed due to lack of interest

BnooMaGoo.5690BnooMaGoo.5690 Member ✭✭
edited September 22, 2020 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

I hope there is nothing like this particular chapter in the next expansion
Storywise it was fine but having to fight Balthazar again & again only to face that sponge & failing miserably twice already kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. I had to read up about ways to beat/cheese it
(made the mistake of playing my Warrior character & I am not the best player which I am ok with)
Will I ever finish Path of Fire to begin the grind for the mounts etc?

Koda the judge & Kodan the jury

peace

<13

Comments

  • @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I hope there is nothing like this particular chapter in the next expansion
    Storywise it was fine but having to fight Balthazar again & again only to face that sponge & failing miserably twice already kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. I had to read up about ways to beat/cheese it
    (made the mistake of playing my Warrior character & I am not the best player which I am ok with)
    Will I ever finish Path of Fire to begin the grind for the mounts etc?

    Koda the judge & Kodan the jury

    peace

    The only Mount that requires completion of the Path of Fire story is the Griffon.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I hope there is nothing like this particular chapter in the next expansion
    Storywise it was fine but having to fight Balthazar again & again only to face that sponge & failing miserably twice already kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. I had to read up about ways to beat/cheese it
    (made the mistake of playing my Warrior character & I am not the best player which I am ok with)
    Will I ever finish Path of Fire to begin the grind for the mounts etc?

    Koda the judge & Kodan the jury

    peace

    The only Mount that requires completion of the Path of Fire story is the Griffon.

    Which is an optional mount and not required for any PoF content.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its been a while, and will re-posts after re-doing it this weekend. I want to say if you go in with others you get credit and/or though the non-instance owners will be mist-form they had an ability that could aid in the fight. More after a replay.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/Civ6/CU/AoC/NW

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    Its been a while, and will re-posts after re-doing it this weekend. I want to say if you go in with others you get credit and/or though the non-instance owners will be mist-form they had an ability that could aid in the fight. More after a replay.

    IIRC, going in with another person changes the other person to a wisp with some, small abilities that might help but, IMO, don't really impact the overall fight. I did it both pre and post nerf and didn't have too much trouble once I understood the attacks and patterns. /shrug

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That mission was a nightmare on my warrior. Easier on other classes but I still dread fighting that boss. Plus, he is at the end of a stupid long mission that should have been in two missions to begin with.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    Why bother responding to rub my nose in whatever? These forums are a bit a joke.
    PS don't you need to finish PoF to unlock skimmer underwater

    shrugs for the "elitist just get good" critics

    Yes, skimmer underwater requires completion of PoF.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2020

    I do remember this dude, was quite a funky boss. I made the mistake of not bringing a weapon to do CC with (hammer got hugely buffed now btw for PvE, Picture 2.7k + 20% on CC'd targets). So anyway, the best and ideal way of killing it is CC'ing it when the bar is up and keep your distance when its not.

    Other way to kill it ( the way i ended up doing it ) Take a rifle, and gun it down... but keep your distance! Other than that.. that was it.

    Other tips to look for, Watch the boss, watch the animations, find a gap when you can weave an attack in, be it say, bulls rush, hammer knock down, consider weapons you don't usually take. I like monsters and champs that actually make you need to think about what to do, rather than be able to put a blind fold on and steamroll your way through the game. So as a result I do not and i will keep saying this, I do not want easy content in EoD, we already have too much of that in Gw2

  • BnooMaGoo.5690BnooMaGoo.5690 Member ✭✭
    edited September 10, 2020

    I am not asking for easy content.
    But this instance you have to whittle ole Balthy down to 20% first.
    Then you face the spongemonster that sucks your soul.
    You can't access your inventory to do anything either.
    From a design perspective it could be better for those of us who maybe don't have all the madskills or ascended gear or minions or pets or stealth or
    whatever may help out.
    I could ask for help if I fail again or I could rage quit.
    To me, that is the kind of design that needs to be looked at more closely in the future?
    Or not.

    just my noob after many years but still playing opinion

  • I think they learned a bit about better handling story encounters with mandatory breakbar phases. Like a later fight in LWS 4 requires a breakbar phase that takes place in a room full of bones that you can pick up to whack the boss over the head with and break the bar if you did not already have a hard CC available.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2020

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I am not asking for easy content.
    But this instance you have to whittle ole Balthy down to 20% first.
    Then you face the spongemonster that sucks your soul.
    You can't access your inventory to do anything either.
    From a design perspective it could be better for those of us who maybe don't have all the madskills or ascended gear or minions or pets or stealth or
    whatever may help out.
    I could ask for help if I fail again or I could rage quit.
    To me, that is the kind of design that needs to be looked at more closely in the future?
    Or not.

    just my noob after many years but still playing opinion

    What server are you? I honestly do not mind assisting if you do need help.

    @DaFishBob.6518 said:
    I think they learned a bit about better handling story encounters with mandatory breakbar phases. Like a later fight in LWS 4 requires a breakbar phase that takes place in a room full of bones that you can pick up to whack the boss over the head with and break the bar if you did not already have a hard CC available.

    The big issue i have with that is it will encourage players to never consider taking a CC weapon with them anywhere. We need content that makes you change your weapons, change your play style on a different encounter, sure some classes get an advantage with CC's built into their kit like ele, but we all have a form of CC to use.

  • An after thought.
    This is the personal story.
    Not open world content with random rewards.
    The rewards are predetermined so there is only the benefit from completing that the devs assign to them.
    We have dynamic scaling in the open world.
    Maybe there should be artificially intelligent dynamic scaling when it comes to our personal story journey?
    The game sees this player has tried umpteen times AND FAILED
    Maybe I have an overactive imagination
    I know about cc & weapon swapping & trying different sigils or runes or what have you
    But sometimes the design may just be flawed for dramatic purposes or to overinflate ones sense of accomplishment
    Or antagonize ones sense of failure

    Intelligent design

    peace

  • @Smoosh.2718 said:

    @DaFishBob.6518 said:
    I think they learned a bit about better handling story encounters with mandatory breakbar phases. Like a later fight in LWS 4 requires a breakbar phase that takes place in a room full of bones that you can pick up to whack the boss over the head with and break the bar if you did not already have a hard CC available.

    The big issue i have with that is it will encourage players to never consider taking a CC weapon with them anywhere. We need content that makes you change your weapons, change your play style on a different encounter, sure some classes get an advantage with CC's built into their kit like ele, but we all have a form of CC to use.

    Well I only said a bit. Ideally players should learn about how to use their skills properly to be able to handle situations like these but right now I'm just voicing some bit of optimism that they're not going to simply design an encounter to be as frustrating as the OP is implying.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'll admit, I am a bit concerned about how my friends are gonna face this fight, considering that I had trouble with it pre-nerf (though I may have actually faced either a lag issue or a bug that significantly decreased the time the break bar was up, considering video evidence of the fight at the time was not what I experienced). If people are still facing difficulties with it, it may be worth taking another look at its balance. Really the most difficult part of the fight is the fact that the eater of souls regains massive amounts of health if that break bar ability goes off from what i remember. I'll take another look at it and see if it's still difficult.

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 what kind of build are you using? can you link it so that we understand what your build is like? also have you tried the same battle on other classes?

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    I'll admit, I am a bit concerned about how my friends are gonna face this fight, considering that I had trouble with it pre-nerf (though I may have actually faced either a lag issue or a bug that significantly decreased the time the break bar was up, considering video evidence of the fight at the time was not what I experienced). If people are still facing difficulties with it, it may be worth taking another look at its balance. Really the most difficult part of the fight is the fact that the eater of souls regains massive amounts of health if that break bar ability goes off from what i remember. I'll take another look at it and see if it's still difficult.

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 what kind of build are you using? can you link it so that we understand what your build is like? also have you tried the same battle on other classes?

    It was def a game wide issue where the breakbar had only a second to be broken. It was quite insane before the nerf/fix. It still punishes not ccing of course, but not to the same extent. Given how poorly cc and breakbars is taught through the game, I'm not really surprised a few still struggle.

    For me it's still a rubbish instance and the starting fight is just tedious (does the instance not have checkpoints? If not - that really is the fix for this)

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    I'll admit, I am a bit concerned about how my friends are gonna face this fight, considering that I had trouble with it pre-nerf (though I may have actually faced either a lag issue or a bug that significantly decreased the time the break bar was up, considering video evidence of the fight at the time was not what I experienced). If people are still facing difficulties with it, it may be worth taking another look at its balance. Really the most difficult part of the fight is the fact that the eater of souls regains massive amounts of health if that break bar ability goes off from what i remember. I'll take another look at it and see if it's still difficult.

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 what kind of build are you using? can you link it so that we understand what your build is like? also have you tried the same battle on other classes?

    Just did this who thing 4 times on a spellbreaker. It is pretty easy. The worst run https://dps.report/j0Sb-20200910-180116_boss
    https://dps.report/KHGj-20200910-180229_boss

    Died once. I think that is a reasonably good job of playing badly ...missed some dodges, didn't interrupt, interrupts at the wrong time, not paying attention to the breakbar, not using stun break correctly, bad timing on Full Counter, not weapon swapping at all. Can't think of other wrong things I could have done. It would be even easier if I could eat a fried golden dumpling but the dialogs drag on too long and to make the dumpling last long enough I would probably have to use a primer and I didn't want to involve gemstore items.

    Build
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAgilZwOYUMMWJOWPnveA-zxQYhogDcHJovyIwCIiEw2B-e

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I was able to kill it on my first try on my berserker warrior and didn't have any difficulty with this particular fight, so I can't really help you there. I do agree that some of the bosses mechanics are boring and just a have a lot of health though.

    Also I didn't know that you have to get Balthazar down to 20% lol. Was wondering what the threshold for that fight was. I got him down to 10% until the cutscene forcibly started. =)

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You get instastuns lying around everywhere in that instance as far as I remember. It takes throwing 1 rock at him or something. They always do this. People always ignore those and then complain, it's funny.

    I rather choose death.

  • @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I am not asking for easy content.
    But this instance you have to whittle ole Balthy down to 20% first.
    Then you face the spongemonster that sucks your soul.
    You can't access your inventory to do anything either.
    From a design perspective it could be better for those of us who maybe don't have all the madskills or ascended gear or minions or pets or stealth or
    whatever may help out.
    I could ask for help if I fail again or I could rage quit.
    To me, that is the kind of design that needs to be looked at more closely in the future?
    Or not.

    just my noob after many years but still playing opinion

    If you want to access your inventory midfight You need to break combat or die. Then you can make necessary changes and go back in with weapons/utilities/traits more suited for the encounter. You’re not locked permanently into combat once it begins in the vast majority of situations and death is always a way to get out of combat.

    Also warrior has insane amounts of possible CC. Bulls charge, Stomp, Rampage, Kick, Throw Bolas, Fear Me! are all core utilities that CC. Try building for it and using it at the appropriate time and you shouldn’t have an issue. Also you absolutely don’t need ascended gear for this (it’s only a 5%ish stat increase over exotic anyway), but having decent gear (rare or higher, preferably exotics for expansion content with a sensible set of 6 runes) with damage stats and damage traits will get you a lot farther in the game than running some sort of bad gear/trait set built entirely for survivability

    It’s an MMO designed around build variety and the ability to change and overcome situations based on your many available tools. Encounters shouldn’t be face roll easy and if they’re challenging you to rethink how you’re playing/what your build is doing then the encounter is doing the right thing

  • Head Kracker.4790Head Kracker.4790 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    Now take this with a grain of salt, but on my warrior I really didn't breakbar him and I use axe axe/longbow and marauder ascended gear and trinkets to kill him. I freely admit that it was a long fight and I did it recently as well so this is post nerfs to the encounter. As well my food and utility had run out before the encounter so I was at my base power. I did however learn his pattern of hops to life drain early and had enough condition cleanse to keep from hitting max Vulnerable. As long as you evade away at the right time and range him the fight isn't that annoying. Tough yes but to me not annoying.

    My build [&DQIEKxYqCyqmAAAAqAAAAGoAAAAKAAAAnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKxAceNlFwuYYMEWJOWPqJVA-zRRYBRHIG+zIQpQFqAjeCAaEwZE-e

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    An after thought.
    This is the personal story.
    Not open world content with random rewards.
    The rewards are predetermined so there is only the benefit from completing that the devs assign to them.
    We have dynamic scaling in the open world.
    Maybe there should be artificially intelligent dynamic scaling when it comes to our personal story journey?
    The game sees this player has tried umpteen times AND FAILED
    Maybe I have an overactive imagination
    I know about cc & weapon swapping & trying different sigils or runes or what have you
    But sometimes the design may just be flawed for dramatic purposes or to overinflate ones sense of accomplishment
    Or antagonize ones sense of failure

    Intelligent design

    peace

    You dont need a cc weapon just switch out utility as a warrior to kick and throw bolas for example

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I hope there is nothing like this particular chapter in the next expansion
    Storywise it was fine but having to fight Balthazar again & again only to face that sponge & failing miserably twice already kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. I had to read up about ways to beat/cheese it
    (made the mistake of playing my Warrior character & I am not the best player which I am ok with)
    Will I ever finish Path of Fire to begin the grind for the mounts etc?

    Koda the judge & Kodan the jury

    peace

    lol I had to do it like 5 times but it was because the chain of instances kept crashing the game at some point. It would just d/c and lose progress. Honestly it still might do it. I had that problem with multiple story instances during Path of Fire. I can't remember what I had to do to (seemingly) fix it at the time being but I think having certain checkpoints during these instances would be ideal. It feels like they just wind up adding them in later anyway.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    It is heavily a dps check, unless you have retool to heavy defense. It has no mechanics. Just something that constantly charge in melee with high damage. It is a bad fight. Though not sure where it stands now after the nerf.

    OP, if you have spell breaker fullY unlocked, use dagger/shield and axe/axe. Great sword if you need more survivability instead axe/axe. Use full counter on cool down. And use strength line, spell breaker and either defense or tactics. Pick traits and utilities that buff defense and/or dodging. Spell breaker played right (not really just rotating skills), should be able to avoid most incoming damage in pve while dealing decent damage.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I hope there is nothing like this particular chapter in the next expansion
    Storywise it was fine but having to fight Balthazar again & again only to face that sponge & failing miserably twice already kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. I had to read up about ways to beat/cheese it
    (made the mistake of playing my Warrior character & I am not the best player which I am ok with)
    Will I ever finish Path of Fire to begin the grind for the mounts etc?

    Koda the judge & Kodan the jury

    peace

    I'm genuinely confused where the difficulty is. I beat it using nothing but auto attacks for 2 and a half minutes and the occasional CC while wearing all yellow tier gear. I can't imagine how anyone can put in more effort than this and somehow struggle.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I hope there is nothing like this particular chapter in the next expansion
    Storywise it was fine but having to fight Balthazar again & again only to face that sponge & failing miserably twice already kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. I had to read up about ways to beat/cheese it
    (made the mistake of playing my Warrior character & I am not the best player which I am ok with)
    Will I ever finish Path of Fire to begin the grind for the mounts etc?

    Koda the judge & Kodan the jury

    peace

    I'm genuinely confused where the difficulty is. I beat it using nothing but auto attacks for 2 and a half minutes and the occasional CC while wearing all yellow tier gear. I can't imagine how anyone can put in more effort than this and somehow struggle. https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    well you used CC ...

    but even that isn't really necessary https://dps.report/KHn9-20200911-181024_boss this isn't rare gear but it is full magi which is probably the second worse when it comes to dps.
    accidentally broke the last two bars due to overload earth and frost aura's chilled but it would have died event without those

    @Taril.8619 said:
    Technically... You don't even NEED to CC him.

    You can just run away when he leaps at you and tries to give you the succ. It's how I beat him my first go around as I did it as Reaper so didn't have much on demand CC to actually use.

    CCing him makes the fight faster, but isn't necessary.

    The only time I had difficulty (Outside of my first go since I didn't realize that he couldn't be beaten using the typical Reaper OW/PS strategy of rolling your face across your keyboard) was when doing it as Chrono because when he steals your stacked up Alacrity + Quickness + 25 Might + Fury + Swiftness he becomes a LOT more... Interesting...

    Outside of this, honestly, the game needs MORE instances of encounters with breakbars in the personal story. Maybe that way people will figure out that CC skills exist and will actually use them in the many OW events that rely on them instead of sitting around being actively detrimental by scaling breakbars by existing...

    On the other hand break bars are a very boring mechanic. :/

  • Maybe the problem with eater of souls is anet never taught people how to break a cc bar, not the difficulty of the fight.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2020

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Which bosses are you referring to? Combat in this game heavily favors melee over ranged.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    I never said a veteran can't pass it, i even passed it, i was explaining what it does and why its annoying. aren't you a raider anyway?

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

    Warrior really needs better ranged options..

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    I never said a veteran can't pass it, i even passed it, i was explaining what it does and why its annoying. aren't you a raider anyway?

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

    Warrior really needs better ranged options..

    Yes I heal in raids what do that got to do with eater of souls fight?

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    I saw someone have trouble with this fight because they average 4k ping. They did manage to make it, eventually (I ended up spectating as a mostly-useless wisp).

    The thing is, 4k ping is entirely unplayable even by the standards of gaming in, like, 1996.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:
    I saw someone have trouble with this fight because they average 4k ping. They did manage to make it, eventually (I ended up spectating as a mostly-useless wisp).

    The thing is, 4k ping is entirely unplayable even by the standards of gaming in, like, 1996.

    that's like 90s dial-up with bad copper wiring and a shoddy patchwork connection to and from the telephone pole kind-of lag :o

  • This boss was rough on release before the nerf but now it's pretty easy. You either commit to breaking the bar or ignore it altogether (which I recommend to most people) and just run away when you see the chain appear on you or just before. You just dps it, then run away until it stops draining health with the Inhale mechanic., then back to dps, rinse and repeat.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    I never said a veteran can't pass it, i even passed it, i was explaining what it does and why its annoying. aren't you a raider anyway?

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

    Warrior really needs better ranged options..

    Yes I heal in raids what do that got to do with eater of souls fight?

    Raiders are far and above the general population of casual gamers, so a boss like that is run of the mill to you, to someone like me a person who doesn't raid ever its very hard, annoyingly so.
    I just did this the other day and i still died three times before i realized what i had to do.. Its why this thread spoke to me as such. It tethers you drags you in damaging you the whole time then insta kills you before you can even think i need to CC this twerp.. then its downed and dead..
    As i said its not fun for many.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    I never said a veteran can't pass it, i even passed it, i was explaining what it does and why its annoying. aren't you a raider anyway?

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

    Warrior really needs better ranged options..

    Yes I heal in raids what do that got to do with eater of souls fight?

    Raiders are far and above the general population of casual gamers, so a boss like that is run of the mill to you, to someone like me a person who doesn't raid ever its very hard, annoyingly so.
    I just did this the other day and i still died three times before i realized what i had to do.. Its why this thread spoke to me as such. It tethers you drags you in damaging you the whole time then insta kills you before you can even think i need to CC this twerp.. then its downed and dead..
    As i said its not fun for many.

    So what is your suggestion? Story bosses should never have any mechanic? Can be defeated just by autoattacking without moving? How much of the game's mechanics should be thrown away for story encounters?

    Eater of Souls is by no means perfect when it comes to design but it also has a perfectly reasonable "obvious" option of running away while it is trying to drain your health. As long as you can prevent it from healing through the life steal nothing else really matters.

    It does have a pull but you can still run away after that.
    It also has a launch you but that is what stun breaks are for.

    My suggestion is keep these mechanics in Raids and Fractals, they aren't needed in a story where 90% of customers are playing to watch a story and enjoying the open world.. Very very different game modes..

  • I went ahead and did a demo of this fight. I think it's a good example of a fight where proper attention to the breakbar mechanic and high damage make a sometimes tricky fight much easier. I am actually using dire gear here, too. So don't think you need to run some sort of full berserker power burst build to pull this off. The time between breakbars is quite long. I wasn't able to tell because the boss didn't last long enough, but I think we're talking 20-30 second range here. You have plenty of time to burn this guy while he does nothing much to you. Just be ready on that CC at the start and take him down!

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:
    My suggestion is keep these mechanics in Raids and Fractals, they aren't needed in a story where 90% of customers are playing to watch a story and enjoying the open world.. Very very different game modes..

    That doesn't answer how low it needs to go. They could allow players to one shot all the enemies and now you have a very stupid story because the characters are making a big deal about the enemy and players just waltz in and effortless kill them.

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I went ahead and did a demo of this fight. I think it's a good example of a fight where proper attention to the breakbar mechanic and high damage make a sometimes tricky fight much easier. I am actually using dire gear here, too. So don't think you need to run some sort of full berserker power burst build to pull this off. The time between breakbars is quite long. I wasn't able to tell because the boss didn't last long enough, but I think we're talking 20-30 second range here. You have plenty of time to burn this guy while he does nothing much to you. Just be ready on that CC at the start and take him down!

    The bar comes up ever 22s and last for 4s

  • I wanted to contrast my break&burn strategy with a video from another player who attempts to use kiting and line-of-sight instead. This player succeeds and is not really in much danger. So this strategy will safely get the job done. However, they spend a lot of time not dealing damage to the boss in order to bypass this mechanic. As you can see, every time the boss succeeds in draining life it's a significant setback, prolonging the fight and forcing the player to deal with even more life drain attacks.

    Again, this is why experienced players often recommend high damage builds for open world/story content. Playing too defensively can make an easy fight into a bit of a nightmare!

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    This player succeeds and is not really in much danger. So this strategy will safely get the job done. However, they spend a lot of time not dealing damage to the boss in order to bypass this mechanic. As you can see, every time the boss succeeds in draining life it's a significant setback, prolonging the fight and forcing the player to deal with even more life drain attacks.

    Again, this is why experienced players often recommend high damage builds for open world/story content. Playing too defensively can make an easy fight into a bit of a nightmare!

    Most of that isn't really true except for people recommending high damage builds. That is a way to bypass but not the only way. It is probably one of the worst ways since it wastes so much time and involves making it impossible to see what the boss is doing. The reason it took so long is not because of a low damage build it is because of a bad strategy.

  • @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    This player succeeds and is not really in much danger. So this strategy will safely get the job done. However, they spend a lot of time not dealing damage to the boss in order to bypass this mechanic. As you can see, every time the boss succeeds in draining life it's a significant setback, prolonging the fight and forcing the player to deal with even more life drain attacks.

    Again, this is why experienced players often recommend high damage builds for open world/story content. Playing too defensively can make an easy fight into a bit of a nightmare!

    Most of that isn't really true except for people recommending high damage builds. That is a way to bypass but not the only way. It is probably one of the worst ways since it wastes so much time and involves making it impossible to see what the boss is doing. The reason it took so long is not because of a low damage build it is because of a bad strategy.

    Oh, I agree 100%. I probably should have placed the two videos I was comparing together in the same post for the sake of clarity.

    I was comparing this strategy (which is indeed not very good!) with a much more direct 17 second break&burn demo I recorded tonight. Obviously, 17 seconds is a better outcome than 12 minutes! The point is to illustrate just how much of a difference understanding and properly handling the mechanics of a fight like this can make!

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    I never said a veteran can't pass it, i even passed it, i was explaining what it does and why its annoying. aren't you a raider anyway?

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

    Warrior really needs better ranged options..

    Yes I heal in raids what do that got to do with eater of souls fight?

    Raiders are far and above the general population of casual gamers, so a boss like that is run of the mill to you, to someone like me a person who doesn't raid ever its very hard, annoyingly so.
    I just did this the other day and i still died three times before i realized what i had to do.. Its why this thread spoke to me as such. It tethers you drags you in damaging you the whole time then insta kills you before you can even think i need to CC this twerp.. then its downed and dead..
    As i said its not fun for many.

    So what is your suggestion? Story bosses should never have any mechanic? Can be defeated just by autoattacking without moving? How much of the game's mechanics should be thrown away for story encounters?

    Eater of Souls is by no means perfect when it comes to design but it also has a perfectly reasonable "obvious" option of running away while it is trying to drain your health. As long as you can prevent it from healing through the life steal nothing else really matters.

    It does have a pull but you can still run away after that.
    It also has a launch you but that is what stun breaks are for.

    My suggestion is keep these mechanics in Raids and Fractals, they aren't needed in a story where 90% of customers are playing to watch a story and enjoying the open world.. Very very different game modes..

    If players just want to watch a story and not have any gameplay... They can always just watch the story on YouTube.

    Games are designed to be interactive media. Since that's literally the unique thing about video games.

    Having mechanics makes a player have to interact with the game, they can make an enemy that's supposed to be tough, feel tough. They can make the player feel like they're up against adversity when they're going against the big bad villain and share in the feeling of success when they and their character beats them.

    Making games non-interactive for "Story" purposes can actually harm the story. As can be seen by the significant number of complaints about how Zhaitan's death was handled as the low player agency in the "Fight" leaves a lot to be desired from what is supposedly the biggest, baddest enemy to ever be faced by any mortal at that point in time.

    On the other hand, Mordremoth, Balthazar and Kralkatorrik have much more player agency involved (Though, aren't particularly challenging either) and are much better at capturing the feeling that they're terrifying powerful villains (Especially the Dragon's Stand meta for Mordremoth). They create a much better storytelling than them simply being some random mook the PC smashes down with 0 effort.

    (My only gripe with designs like this are "Forced Failure" fights that aren't impossibly unfair and will abruptly end even if you're perfectly alive and fine... I.e. The fights with Balthazar before the final fight... Even better is when these fights must be "Won" and can be failed by dying early)

    Cat: Meow.

This discussion has been closed.