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  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    I want less combat in story honestly. Every problem shouldnt be solved with violence

  • Calvsie.3675Calvsie.3675 Member ✭✭✭

    My big gripe with eater of souls is the lack of ability to play it effectively in a group. My wife and I co-op through the story and god its boring being a mote.

    “You're no help," he told the lime. This was unfair. It was only a lime; there was nothing special about it at all. It was doing the best it could.”
    ― Neil Gaiman, Anansi Boys

  • @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I went ahead and did a demo of this fight. I think it's a good example of a fight where proper attention to the breakbar mechanic and high damage make a sometimes tricky fight much easier. I am actually using dire gear here, too. So don't think you need to run some sort of full berserker power burst build to pull this off. The time between breakbars is quite long. I wasn't able to tell because the boss didn't last long enough, but I think we're talking 20-30 second range here. You have plenty of time to burn this guy while he does nothing much to you. Just be ready on that CC at the start and take him down!

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    This player succeeds and is not really in much danger. So this strategy will safely get the job done. However, they spend a lot of time not dealing damage to the boss in order to bypass this mechanic. As you can see, every time the boss succeeds in draining life it's a significant setback, prolonging the fight and forcing the player to deal with even more life drain attacks.

    Again, this is why experienced players often recommend high damage builds for open world/story content. Playing too defensively can make an easy fight into a bit of a nightmare!

    Most of that isn't really true except for people recommending high damage builds. That is a way to bypass but not the only way. It is probably one of the worst ways since it wastes so much time and involves making it impossible to see what the boss is doing. The reason it took so long is not because of a low damage build it is because of a bad strategy.

    Oh, I agree 100%. I probably should have placed the two videos I was comparing together in the same post for the sake of clarity.

    I was comparing this strategy (which is indeed not very good!) with a much more direct 17 second break&burn demo I recorded tonight. Obviously, 17 seconds is a better outcome than 12 minutes! The point is to illustrate just how much of a difference understanding and properly handling the mechanics of a fight like this can make!

    I dont think the people complaining in this thread are interested in finding good strategies. They're here to play a the story as if it were a youtube video. I posted a video earlier in the thread of me only using auto attacks and my CC skills. The execution level of auto attacking is much lower and doable by 99% of players. Yet running around in a circle is considered "veteran strategies". Some people just don't want to be helped.

    It's easy to find videos like that 12 minute solo using LoS/terrain bug strategies. There are bunches like it in the search results. It's actually difficult to find videos of players doing this fight "correctly" by utilizing the breakbar mechanic to prevent the attack and then going hard on damage between breakbars.

    Perhaps it's that experienced players don't care about "trivial" fights like this and thus don't typically produce video of this sort of encounter? But it would be easy to look for help on the internet and end up with a terrible strategy that will prolong this fight and make it much more difficult.

  • @Calvsie.3675 said:
    My big gripe with eater of souls is the lack of ability to play it effectively in a group. My wife and I co-op through the story and god its boring being a mote.

    The mote actually gets helpful skills, doesn't it? I only did it once, but I think it can CC the breakbar for you, which is about the most helpful thing you could do in this fight!

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Calvsie.3675 said:
    My big gripe with eater of souls is the lack of ability to play it effectively in a group. My wife and I co-op through the story and god its boring being a mote.

    The mote actually gets helpful skills, doesn't it? I only did it once, but I think it can CC the breakbar for you, which is about the most helpful thing you could do in this fight!

    You get a near-useless Might channel, 1s Fear + some Vuln on a reasonable CD, and a big heal that costs endurance or something. The main challenge is that your Fear has a range of 600 and you are very squishy, so it's quite possible to go in for the CC and just get smushed by the big guy instead.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I went ahead and did a demo of this fight. I think it's a good example of a fight where proper attention to the breakbar mechanic and high damage make a sometimes tricky fight much easier. I am actually using dire gear here, too. So don't think you need to run some sort of full berserker power burst build to pull this off. The time between breakbars is quite long. I wasn't able to tell because the boss didn't last long enough, but I think we're talking 20-30 second range here. You have plenty of time to burn this guy while he does nothing much to you. Just be ready on that CC at the start and take him down!

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    This player succeeds and is not really in much danger. So this strategy will safely get the job done. However, they spend a lot of time not dealing damage to the boss in order to bypass this mechanic. As you can see, every time the boss succeeds in draining life it's a significant setback, prolonging the fight and forcing the player to deal with even more life drain attacks.

    Again, this is why experienced players often recommend high damage builds for open world/story content. Playing too defensively can make an easy fight into a bit of a nightmare!

    Most of that isn't really true except for people recommending high damage builds. That is a way to bypass but not the only way. It is probably one of the worst ways since it wastes so much time and involves making it impossible to see what the boss is doing. The reason it took so long is not because of a low damage build it is because of a bad strategy.

    Oh, I agree 100%. I probably should have placed the two videos I was comparing together in the same post for the sake of clarity.

    I was comparing this strategy (which is indeed not very good!) with a much more direct 17 second break&burn demo I recorded tonight. Obviously, 17 seconds is a better outcome than 12 minutes! The point is to illustrate just how much of a difference understanding and properly handling the mechanics of a fight like this can make!

    I dont think the people complaining in this thread are interested in finding good strategies. They're here to play a the story as if it were a youtube video. I posted a video earlier in the thread of me only using auto attacks and my CC skills. The execution level of auto attacking is much lower and doable by 99% of players. Yet running around in a circle is considered "veteran strategies". Some people just don't want to be helped.

    It's easy to find videos like that 12 minute solo using LoS/terrain bug strategies. There are bunches like it in the search results. It's actually difficult to find videos of players doing this fight "correctly" by utilizing the breakbar mechanic to prevent the attack and then going hard on damage between breakbars.

    Perhaps it's that experienced players don't care about "trivial" fights like this and thus don't typically produce video of this sort of encounter? But it would be easy to look for help on the internet and end up with a terrible strategy that will prolong this fight and make it much more difficult.

    The video I posted was 2 min long. There's 0 execution difficulty with the strategy I used. I even did it in cheap gear. Watching that 12 minute video of someone making a simple task infinitely harder for themselves is mind boggling.

  • @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I went ahead and did a demo of this fight. I think it's a good example of a fight where proper attention to the breakbar mechanic and high damage make a sometimes tricky fight much easier. I am actually using dire gear here, too. So don't think you need to run some sort of full berserker power burst build to pull this off. The time between breakbars is quite long. I wasn't able to tell because the boss didn't last long enough, but I think we're talking 20-30 second range here. You have plenty of time to burn this guy while he does nothing much to you. Just be ready on that CC at the start and take him down!

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    This player succeeds and is not really in much danger. So this strategy will safely get the job done. However, they spend a lot of time not dealing damage to the boss in order to bypass this mechanic. As you can see, every time the boss succeeds in draining life it's a significant setback, prolonging the fight and forcing the player to deal with even more life drain attacks.

    Again, this is why experienced players often recommend high damage builds for open world/story content. Playing too defensively can make an easy fight into a bit of a nightmare!

    Most of that isn't really true except for people recommending high damage builds. That is a way to bypass but not the only way. It is probably one of the worst ways since it wastes so much time and involves making it impossible to see what the boss is doing. The reason it took so long is not because of a low damage build it is because of a bad strategy.

    Oh, I agree 100%. I probably should have placed the two videos I was comparing together in the same post for the sake of clarity.

    I was comparing this strategy (which is indeed not very good!) with a much more direct 17 second break&burn demo I recorded tonight. Obviously, 17 seconds is a better outcome than 12 minutes! The point is to illustrate just how much of a difference understanding and properly handling the mechanics of a fight like this can make!

    I dont think the people complaining in this thread are interested in finding good strategies. They're here to play a the story as if it were a youtube video. I posted a video earlier in the thread of me only using auto attacks and my CC skills. The execution level of auto attacking is much lower and doable by 99% of players. Yet running around in a circle is considered "veteran strategies". Some people just don't want to be helped.

    It's easy to find videos like that 12 minute solo using LoS/terrain bug strategies. There are bunches like it in the search results. It's actually difficult to find videos of players doing this fight "correctly" by utilizing the breakbar mechanic to prevent the attack and then going hard on damage between breakbars.

    Perhaps it's that experienced players don't care about "trivial" fights like this and thus don't typically produce video of this sort of encounter? But it would be easy to look for help on the internet and end up with a terrible strategy that will prolong this fight and make it much more difficult.

    The video I posted was 2 min long. There's 0 execution difficulty with the strategy I used. I even did it in cheap gear. Watching that 12 minute video of someone making a simple task infinitely harder for themselves is mind boggling.

    I think the insight regarding circle strafing the boss was helpful, as is demonstrating that you can literally do this just auto attacking. No need to kite around and try to bug the boss out like some of these guides suggest.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    Wow is this still going on? I stopped reading & pretty much stopped playing regularly since some of the nasties weighed in. I haven't bothered trying that instance again, I am looking for another game to invest my time and money in for the time being.

    just so that i can understand, what is it exactly that you want done? Do you want someone to help you with the instance? Do you need help with your buildcraft? Or something else?

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raizel.1839 said:
    You must really be poor in playing gw2 if it's taking 3+ attempts to kill that...

    It's the first story mission that's so much more difficult without bar breaking that this could be the first experience a player has with bar breaking.

    I know I would attempt something a few times (adjusting as I felt appropriate) before running off to find a guide. That failure helps you learn.

    Goodness knows I did fail it a number of times, probably more than 3, before I completed it. I read about the bar break but as this fight was my first one, my timing was way off and this was before it was nerfed so the window was shorter to do the break in. So I said screw it and did it the long way.

    I lucked out to some extent as I had spare gear from an old build in my inventory as well so I could swap out to change build since we couldn't access our inventory directly.

    And I'm not really poor in playing GW2.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Also, as noted previously, the video showing auto attacks while circle strafing seemed useful. It's a generally good melee strategy to stay in motion, but it's not often talked about.

    Eh? Most things I've seen talking about combat does recommend against standing still which is functionally the same although I haven't looked at any recently but it's one of those frequently mentioned things along with the likes of "don't use keyboard turning", "don't rely on clicking skills", "melee assist is awful", "don't stand in aoe", "use your dodge"

  • TrOtskY.5927TrOtskY.5927 Member ✭✭✭

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I am not asking for easy content.
    But this instance you have to whittle ole Balthy down to 20% first.
    Then you face the spongemonster that sucks your soul.
    You can't access your inventory to do anything either.
    From a design perspective it could be better for those of us who maybe don't have all the madskills or ascended gear or minions or pets or stealth or
    whatever may help out.
    I could ask for help if I fail again or I could rage quit.
    To me, that is the kind of design that needs to be looked at more closely in the future?
    Or not.

    just my noob after many years but still playing opinion

    Harder bosses are fun, I'm sorry that you don't enjoy it

  • @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    Wow is this still going on? I stopped reading & pretty much stopped playing regularly since some of the nasties weighed in. I haven't bothered trying that instance again, I am looking for another game to invest my time and money in for the time being.

    I see a lot of people trying to help and explain things. When you create a post like this, expect people to continue on the discussion as others might also benefit from it. That's how forums work. Also you have made two posts disparaging others here. When I run into a tough fight I try to learn the mechanics and try new things and adapt either on my own or after asking for tips from other people. It's what I expect from a fun game, a little challenge every now and then.

    I got owned the first time I did this pre-fix as a melee because it kept healing and I remember a blink-and-you-miss-it break bar. I just kept at it and adjusted until I beat it. It's much more forgiving now since the change which is good because although I love challenging boss fights, I do think the story should be accessible to most. I just wish we had more challenge mote options for story fights.

  • BnooMaGoo.5690BnooMaGoo.5690 Member ✭✭
    edited September 15, 2020

    @Raizel.1839 said:
    You must really be poor in playing gw2 if it's taking 3+ attempts to kill that...

    this kind of stuff makes these forums a bit of a joke, almost disparaging

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Weirdly enough I didn't had any issues with my glass cannon daredevil when I did it. No more than other bosses.
    I've had much more problems with Caudecus battle for example.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    @TrOtskY.5927 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    I never said a veteran can't pass it, i even passed it, i was explaining what it does and why its annoying. aren't you a raider anyway?

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

    Warrior really needs better ranged options..

    Yes I heal in raids what do that got to do with eater of souls fight?

    Raiders are far and above the general population of casual gamers, so a boss like that is run of the mill to you, to someone like me a person who doesn't raid ever its very hard, annoyingly so.
    I just did this the other day and i still died three times before i realized what i had to do.. Its why this thread spoke to me as such. It tethers you drags you in damaging you the whole time then insta kills you before you can even think i need to CC this twerp.. then its downed and dead..
    As i said its not fun for many.

    I'm sorry but if you think having to attempt a boss 3 times is too much then that's just your opinion. Most people enjoy a small challenge

    No they don't some do, many others do not especially in gaming after a long day at work.. More stress on top of Stress is bad when gaming is designed as an entertainment.

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    I never said a veteran can't pass it, i even passed it, i was explaining what it does and why its annoying. aren't you a raider anyway?

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

    Warrior really needs better ranged options..

    Yes I heal in raids what do that got to do with eater of souls fight?

    Raiders are far and above the general population of casual gamers, so a boss like that is run of the mill to you, to someone like me a person who doesn't raid ever its very hard, annoyingly so.
    I just did this the other day and i still died three times before i realized what i had to do.. Its why this thread spoke to me as such. It tethers you drags you in damaging you the whole time then insta kills you before you can even think i need to CC this twerp.. then its downed and dead..
    As i said its not fun for many.

    So what is your suggestion? Story bosses should never have any mechanic? Can be defeated just by autoattacking without moving? How much of the game's mechanics should be thrown away for story encounters?

    Eater of Souls is by no means perfect when it comes to design but it also has a perfectly reasonable "obvious" option of running away while it is trying to drain your health. As long as you can prevent it from healing through the life steal nothing else really matters.

    It does have a pull but you can still run away after that.
    It also has a launch you but that is what stun breaks are for.

    My suggestion is keep these mechanics in Raids and Fractals, they aren't needed in a story where 90% of customers are playing to watch a story and enjoying the open world.. Very very different game modes..

    I'm one of those players who primarily plays for the story and I hope they continue to put in mechanics like this into story missions. If I wanted to watch a story, I'd put on a movie or a tv show or get a book.

    I do hope they don't make any more that are as long as this mission is so that players can regroup without having to repeat a long mission. Which is what I think half the problem is with this mission. The first half is a long mission and the first time through it, you don't know that it's a forced you lose mission. So a player who is not the best enters it, that first half takes forever and a day and then get to Eater of Souls... I pity the ones that then got a disconnect at the end as that mission tends to be one of the ones that disconnects more often than others.

    Personally, I'm kind of sad he got nerfed. I understand the reasoning and I don't disagree on the nerf it got. I just happened to beat him before his nerf and it took some time. Now the next time I go in, I won't be able to know if me killing him quicker is due to my skills increasing or the nerf.

    Then you are not a person that plays for story sorry, you are considered hardcore.

    @Raizel.1839 said:
    You must really be poor in playing gw2 if it's taking 3+ attempts to kill that...

    Because when the boss attacks me i must wait three to six seconds after pressing the dodge or CC button while the network crosses the pacific ocean twice before my character moves or attacks.. In that time my character has been killed. Its why devs should make content for the world not only USA and EU.

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Did you watch the video Shikaru.7618 linked?
    even missed 1 of the cc breaks and was not insta killed at all, just had to turn and press w to stay away from boss

    https://youtu.be/p6azFPrq2iM

    I never said a veteran can't pass it, i even passed it, i was explaining what it does and why its annoying. aren't you a raider anyway?

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Spellbreaker should do very well in pof whole story... I cant remember this fight at all, is it that annoying?

    Its drags you in and insta kills you if you are 2 secs to slow.

    Spellbreaker is bad because it has terrible ranged options.. and nearly every boss forces ranged combat or you are dead...

    A lot of classes cc are poor and are on massive cooldowns or are just rinsed off in seconds..

    Weird that you feel that way, I usually favor my spellbreaker for bounties and dailies.. I agree that some bosses are not melee friendly.

    Warrior really needs better ranged options..

    Yes I heal in raids what do that got to do with eater of souls fight?

    Raiders are far and above the general population of casual gamers, so a boss like that is run of the mill to you, to someone like me a person who doesn't raid ever its very hard, annoyingly so.
    I just did this the other day and i still died three times before i realized what i had to do.. Its why this thread spoke to me as such. It tethers you drags you in damaging you the whole time then insta kills you before you can even think i need to CC this twerp.. then its downed and dead..
    As i said its not fun for many.

    So what is your suggestion? Story bosses should never have any mechanic? Can be defeated just by autoattacking without moving? How much of the game's mechanics should be thrown away for story encounters?

    Eater of Souls is by no means perfect when it comes to design but it also has a perfectly reasonable "obvious" option of running away while it is trying to drain your health. As long as you can prevent it from healing through the life steal nothing else really matters.

    It does have a pull but you can still run away after that.
    It also has a launch you but that is what stun breaks are for.

    What i suggest is they should be like Tyria.. the original content was great as it was.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just did this with an elementalist and that was a drag. Got it done but this fight is a boring end to a loooooooooooong story step.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:

    @Raizel.1839 said:
    You must really be poor in playing gw2 if it's taking 3+ attempts to kill that...

    this kind of stuff makes these forums a bit of a joke, almost disparaging

    That doesn't absolve you either for starting it. Toxicity begets toxicity unfortunately and it's uncalled for either way. There's some good tips in this thread for you and others to try out if you're struggling. If anyone is still having trouble and play on NA let me know and I can help out.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I reread all the responses to this post just for the heckuvit.
    I also thought about deleting all of my comments including the topic itself by editing to nothingness.
    I pay to play this game but I don't pay to police these forums or make sure people treat my participation in them fairly through checks and balances, thumbs up or helpful points added or subtractions because someone got their feelings hurt.
    Getting badges or more stars beside my "name" is akin to a social credit system favoured by some governments (hello China) but not my cup of tea.
    They usually lead to little more than popularity contests on these forums as well as a skewed definition of what Arenanet themselves describe as "lively conversation".
    Seeing a video of someone easily beat something I have difficulty with along with their commentary on their opinion of my lacks or whatever isn't really helpful to me or does it address what I was talking about
    but it might score points with the choir

    No one cares about being popular here. Honestly if getting the answer literally handed to you in video form can't help you, then I'm not sure what will. You have not articulated in any fashion why the strategies provided by people in this thread are not useful. We are not here to agree with you. You presented an idea that is clearly way below the status quo for difficulty and are receiving the well expected disagreement.

    seeing a video doesnt magically give you the same skills. and isnt the first thread about this fight either.
    some classes can literally do it without breaking a sweat, while others are almost impossible.
    this is obviously one of the worst STORY bosses in the entire universe

  • Sodeni.6041Sodeni.6041 Member ✭✭✭

    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

    Same tbh, I don't get how people struggle at things at all. Just do the thing.
    Like, why do people struggle at Souls games? Just beat them. It's that easy.
    I can beat them easily on SL1 runs, so why can't they?
    How do people still wipe and struggle at raid bosses? My static from back in the day did them easily.
    How do you even fail a mechanic? Just do the mechanic, it's that simple.
    How do people fall down in jumping puzzles? It's just jumping, can't they press spacebar?
    How do people still struggle at Classic Onyxia in WoW, when you can kill her with a fully naked group without world buffs?
    Nothing special imo.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
    Remaster confirmed! Umbasa!

  • Sodeni.6041Sodeni.6041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

    Same tbh, I don't get how people struggle at things at all. Just do the thing.
    Like, why do people struggle at Souls games? Just beat them. It's that easy.
    I can beat them easily on SL1 runs, so why can't they?
    How do people still wipe and struggle at raid bosses? My static from back in the day did them easily.
    How do you even fail a mechanic? Just do the mechanic, it's that simple.
    How do people fall down in jumping puzzles? It's just jumping, can't they press spacebar?
    How do people still struggle at Classic Onyxia in WoW, when you can kill her with a fully naked group without world buffs?
    Nothing special imo.

    Don't compare a normal boss from a story instance to a raid boss or something like that. I killed him within a minute I think with just spamming skills but well.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

    Because not everyone has the same skill level as you do. Some people don't pick up on the mechanics quickly. I am one of those people in most instances. This was the first mission that I ran into where not doing the mechanic made the mission way more difficult. I've still not fully committed my CC skills to memory. At the original state, I could not get off enough CC fast enough to break the bar.

    I also have no problem with missions that have such difficulty.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sodeni.6041 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

    Same tbh, I don't get how people struggle at things at all. Just do the thing.
    Like, why do people struggle at Souls games? Just beat them. It's that easy.
    I can beat them easily on SL1 runs, so why can't they?
    How do people still wipe and struggle at raid bosses? My static from back in the day did them easily.
    How do you even fail a mechanic? Just do the mechanic, it's that simple.
    How do people fall down in jumping puzzles? It's just jumping, can't they press spacebar?
    How do people still struggle at Classic Onyxia in WoW, when you can kill her with a fully naked group without world buffs?
    Nothing special imo.

    Don't compare a normal boss from a story instance to a raid boss or something like that. I killed him within a minute I think with just spamming skills but well.

    Well, then don't compare your ability to play games to others. It's that easy!

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
    Remaster confirmed! Umbasa!

  • No one cares about being popular here. Honestly if getting the answer literally handed to you in video form can't help you, then I'm not sure what will. You have not articulated in any fashion why the strategies provided by people in this thread are not useful. We are not here to agree with you. You presented an idea that is clearly way below the status quo for difficulty and are receiving the well expected disagreement.

    no one eh? you speak for everyone it seems
    I gave up for the most part after the first couple of responses that amounted to get good
    I can't understand things for you in the same way as you can't play the game for me?

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

    It is one of the rare enemies in the game that can heal. I can only think of two others. The vampire bat HP and the dwayna boss in Arah p4.

    If not for that then you could easily do this fight as long as your DPS is greater than 0.

    Confusion/torment is also a bit of a hit or miss thing. In this case the enemy both uses a decent amount of skill(each tick of Inhale should trigger confusion) and moves around which is perfect for those two conditions. On the other hand even a full magi tempest fully specc'ed for healing would only need 2-3 minutes so it still comes back to not letting it heal. If it is allowed to heal then its effective HP is infinite.

  • @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

    It is one of the rare enemies in the game that can heal. I can only think of two others. The vampire bat HP and the dwayna boss in Arah p4.

    If not for that then you could easily do this fight as long as your DPS is greater than 0.

    Confusion/torment is also a bit of a hit or miss thing. In this case the enemy both uses a decent amount of skill(each tick of Inhale should trigger confusion) and moves around which is perfect for those two conditions. On the other hand even a full magi tempest fully specc'ed for healing would only need 2-3 minutes so it still comes back to not letting it heal. If it is allowed to heal then its effective HP is infinite.

    The Muckstalker bounty is another enemy that heals. Needless to say that bounty usually fails.

  • Sodeni.6041Sodeni.6041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

    Because not everyone has the same skill level as you do. Some people don't pick up on the mechanics quickly. I am one of those people in most instances. This was the first mission that I ran into where not doing the mechanic made the mission way more difficult. I've still not fully committed my CC skills to memory. At the original state, I could not get off enough CC fast enough to break the bar.

    I also have no problem with missions that have such difficulty.

    To be fair I didn't remember any mechanics. I just kept spamming my damage skills and he was dead pretty easily with my mirage not even maxed out.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2020

    https://imgur.com/0eblVnP
    Yesterday on my Revenant.. Couldn't change to my hammer due to the story blocking my inventory, so i was stuck on melee.. I know how this works and he still killed me.. one attack took 20k hp then he dragged me in to be killed... 20k hit points in one hit.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    https://imgur.com/0eblVnP
    Yesterday on my Revenant.. Couldn't change to my hammer due to the story blocking my inventory, so i was stuck on melee.. I know how this works and he still killed me.. one attack took 20k hp then he dragged me in to be killed... 20k hit points in one hit.

    Unless they changed things, you should still be able to access the hero panel and can swap out items that are in your inventory and now the equipment templates.

    You would obviously have to get far enough away to get out of combat or wait until he kills you to do it.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I reread all the responses to this post just for the heckuvit.
    I also thought about deleting all of my comments including the topic itself by editing to nothingness.
    I pay to play this game but I don't pay to police these forums or make sure people treat my participation in them fairly through checks and balances, thumbs up or helpful points added or subtractions because someone got their feelings hurt.
    Getting badges or more stars beside my "name" is akin to a social credit system favoured by some governments (hello China) but not my cup of tea.
    They usually lead to little more than popularity contests on these forums as well as a skewed definition of what Arenanet themselves describe as "lively conversation".
    Seeing a video of someone easily beat something I have difficulty with along with their commentary on their opinion of my lacks or whatever isn't really helpful to me or does it address what I was talking about
    but it might score points with the choir

    No one cares about being popular here. Honestly if getting the answer literally handed to you in video form can't help you, then I'm not sure what will. You have not articulated in any fashion why the strategies provided by people in this thread are not useful. We are not here to agree with you. You presented an idea that is clearly way below the status quo for difficulty and are receiving the well expected disagreement.

    seeing a video doesnt magically give you the same skills. and isnt the first thread about this fight either.
    some classes can literally do it without breaking a sweat, while others are almost impossible.
    this is obviously one of the worst STORY bosses in the entire universe

    There was no skill needed. I auto attacked for 90% of the video. It was also done while being severely undergeared on the exact same class the op was using.

    so why couldnt he do it with a BETTER toon? think really hard about the answer...

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ultramex.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    so why couldnt he do it with a BETTER toon? think really hard about the answer...

    Maybe just maybe.... its because he lacks the skill? Which lead to the conclusion this is the player's fault not the boss. Didn't think of that, did you Sherlock?
    I stopped doing stories on multiple classes due to unskippable dialogue , but after seeing these "players" complain about the boss fight because of their failure to learn, make me want to continue.

    @Ultramex.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    so why couldnt he do it with a BETTER toon? think really hard about the answer...

    Maybe just maybe.... its because he lacks the skill? Which lead to the conclusion this is the player's fault not the boss. Didn't think of that, did you Sherlock?
    I stopped doing stories on multiple classes due to unskippable dialogue , but after seeing these "players" complain about the boss fight because of their failure to learn, make me want to continue.

    yep, but shikaru claimed, that it wasnt about skills.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2020

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I reread all the responses to this post just for the heckuvit.
    I also thought about deleting all of my comments including the topic itself by editing to nothingness.
    I pay to play this game but I don't pay to police these forums or make sure people treat my participation in them fairly through checks and balances, thumbs up or helpful points added or subtractions because someone got their feelings hurt.
    Getting badges or more stars beside my "name" is akin to a social credit system favoured by some governments (hello China) but not my cup of tea.
    They usually lead to little more than popularity contests on these forums as well as a skewed definition of what Arenanet themselves describe as "lively conversation".
    Seeing a video of someone easily beat something I have difficulty with along with their commentary on their opinion of my lacks or whatever isn't really helpful to me or does it address what I was talking about
    but it might score points with the choir

    No one cares about being popular here. Honestly if getting the answer literally handed to you in video form can't help you, then I'm not sure what will. You have not articulated in any fashion why the strategies provided by people in this thread are not useful. We are not here to agree with you. You presented an idea that is clearly way below the status quo for difficulty and are receiving the well expected disagreement.

    seeing a video doesnt magically give you the same skills. and isnt the first thread about this fight either.
    some classes can literally do it without breaking a sweat, while others are almost impossible.
    this is obviously one of the worst STORY bosses in the entire universe

    There was no skill needed. I auto attacked for 90% of the video. It was also done while being severely undergeared on the exact same class the op was using.

    so why couldnt he do it with a BETTER toon? think really hard about the answer...

    No need to ponder the answer. They couldn't do the bare minimum of even auto attacking. That's not the bar we should be balancing the game around.

    auto attack is a SKILL too, if you want to be pedantic about it. it is usually the first button on the SKILL BAR after all
    nice try BTW. but its about PLAYER skills, not CHARACTER skills

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ultramex.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    so why couldnt he do it with a BETTER toon? think really hard about the answer...

    Maybe just maybe.... its because he lacks the skill? Which lead to the conclusion this is the player's fault not the boss. Didn't think of that, did you Sherlock?
    I stopped doing stories on multiple classes due to unskippable dialogue , but after seeing these "players" complain about the boss fight because of their failure to learn, make me want to continue.

    @Ultramex.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    so why couldnt he do it with a BETTER toon? think really hard about the answer...

    Maybe just maybe.... its because he lacks the skill? Which lead to the conclusion this is the player's fault not the boss. Didn't think of that, did you Sherlock?
    I stopped doing stories on multiple classes due to unskippable dialogue , but after seeing these "players" complain about the boss fight because of their failure to learn, make me want to continue.

    yep, but shikaru claimed, that it wasnt about skills.

    Well there is skill, as in either break the bar or move out of range. You know what? OP should just post his/her vid so we can see what went wrong

  • Lord Trejgon.2809Lord Trejgon.2809 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2020

    Personally as a very casual player who only ever did pof once, (and on a spellbreaker while at it) I do not aggree with OP assesment that design of soul eater fight was all that bad. He only had one trick up his sleeve, trick was telegraphed, can be countered in multiple ways (CC breakbar, move outside of it's range, it's quite short, and is blockable). Claiming that this sort of mechanics belong to the fractals is misplaced, this is no where near the level of fractals. Level 1 fractal have way more mechanics already.

    Balthazar fight preceeding it, well I'd presume that if you died to early, aurene wouldn't get time to try to save your butt and get captured right?

    The only forced fail that I had issues with so far (but bear in mind I didn't do the latest half of icebrood saga just yet, didn't really have time to sit to it) was All for Nothing boss fight. Very nice believable boss fight which you technically win, only to get a cutscene that doesn't really fit all that much of fight continuity that tells you that no, actually, you lost. Just after blowing up stackes and urgency right through the roof while making the fight completely fail to address them, for the sake of 5 minute fake feel of the loss because "we can't just succeed every time". But at this point it's just season 4 bad writing issue, not necesarily fight design on it's own (altho mismatch between fight design and the story around it was a big deal there).

    Well one hope I have in that regard is that AN have learned it's lessons and won't repeat same mistakes with rest of icebrood saga/EoD

    EDIT:

    Because when the boss attacks me i must wait three to six seconds after pressing the dodge or CC button while the network crosses the pacific ocean twice before my character moves or attacks..

    to be fair in here, if you really had persistent lag delay this long on normal gameplay (3-6s) (which I kind of doubt is a case) I salute you for persistence of playing virtually unplayable. 3-6 seconds is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge lag.

    also for the note of player skills or lack of thereoff. I mean if one can't execute a strategy involving auto-attacking and moving away as soon as breakbar shows up, then I have no idea how such person managed to execute much more complex strategy of "autoattack and dodge red circles" required to even get to that fight in the first place.

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I reread all the responses to this post just for the heckuvit.
    I also thought about deleting all of my comments including the topic itself by editing to nothingness.
    I pay to play this game but I don't pay to police these forums or make sure people treat my participation in them fairly through checks and balances, thumbs up or helpful points added or subtractions because someone got their feelings hurt.
    Getting badges or more stars beside my "name" is akin to a social credit system favoured by some governments (hello China) but not my cup of tea.
    They usually lead to little more than popularity contests on these forums as well as a skewed definition of what Arenanet themselves describe as "lively conversation".
    Seeing a video of someone easily beat something I have difficulty with along with their commentary on their opinion of my lacks or whatever isn't really helpful to me or does it address what I was talking about
    but it might score points with the choir

    No one cares about being popular here. Honestly if getting the answer literally handed to you in video form can't help you, then I'm not sure what will. You have not articulated in any fashion why the strategies provided by people in this thread are not useful. We are not here to agree with you. You presented an idea that is clearly way below the status quo for difficulty and are receiving the well expected disagreement.

    seeing a video doesnt magically give you the same skills. and isnt the first thread about this fight either.
    some classes can literally do it without breaking a sweat, while others are almost impossible.
    this is obviously one of the worst STORY bosses in the entire universe

    There was no skill needed. I auto attacked for 90% of the video. It was also done while being severely undergeared on the exact same class the op was using.

    so why couldnt he do it with a BETTER toon? think really hard about the answer...

    No need to ponder the answer. They couldn't do the bare minimum of even auto attacking. That's not the bar we should be balancing the game around.

    auto attack is a SKILL too, if you want to be pedantic about it. it is usually the first button on the SKILL BAR after all
    nice try BTW. but its about PLAYER skills, not CHARACTER skills

    That's right. Story episodes are designed to challenge the average player. This means that some players will struggle with it while others can win with both arms tied behind their back.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Seera.5916 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    https://imgur.com/0eblVnP
    Yesterday on my Revenant.. Couldn't change to my hammer due to the story blocking my inventory, so i was stuck on melee.. I know how this works and he still killed me.. one attack took 20k hp then he dragged me in to be killed... 20k hit points in one hit.

    Unless they changed things, you should still be able to access the hero panel and can swap out items that are in your inventory and now the equipment templates.

    You would obviously have to get far enough away to get out of combat or wait until he kills you to do it.

    I couldn't tried to open my stuff the whole time i thought towards the end i'd be able to but even running up to the Eater of Souls my panels would not open and i'd get a red message across my screen saying its disabled.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    https://imgur.com/0eblVnP
    Yesterday on my Revenant.. Couldn't change to my hammer due to the story blocking my inventory, so i was stuck on melee.. I know how this works and he still killed me.. one attack took 20k hp then he dragged me in to be killed... 20k hit points in one hit.

    I find that reaper necromancer is one of the easier PvE professions to play with, so if you have one everything in PvE will be a lot easier when playing with it. Warrior is probably one of the worser professions right now especially when using a ranged weapon so everything may seem harder.

  • I beat him on my first try without even trying. I didn't even know his name until people on the forums kept on complaining about him...

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    Why bother responding to rub my nose in whatever? These forums are a bit a joke.
    PS don't you need to finish PoF to unlock skimmer underwater

    shrugs for the "elitist just get good" critics

    Then what exactly is the point of this thread? You post on a public forum and then complain that someone dare responding what they think about it? Then don't post anything and opt for a private diary. Just reread your first post, you didn't ask for anything, you just made a thread as if it's your personal blog: "content too hard for me, will I ever finish it? Nobody knows. Thanks for reading, bye".

    And about your next posts: the design isn't bad just because some people managed to not complete the content on their first try. If someone repeatedly fails at completing the story mode then they fail at basics of the game and need to improve, that's all.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I really don't know how people can struggle at this "boss". I remember killing him first try when PoF came out (he was stronger back then) and I even got the fast kill achievement first try with my exo condi gear staff/axe/torch mirage. Nothing special imo?

    this may come as a shock to you, but other people arent YOU. and the game needs more than one player to survive.
    this is the nth thread about this particular boss. something is clearly wrong

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I reread all the responses to this post just for the heckuvit.
    I also thought about deleting all of my comments including the topic itself by editing to nothingness.
    I pay to play this game but I don't pay to police these forums or make sure people treat my participation in them fairly through checks and balances, thumbs up or helpful points added or subtractions because someone got their feelings hurt.
    Getting badges or more stars beside my "name" is akin to a social credit system favoured by some governments (hello China) but not my cup of tea.
    They usually lead to little more than popularity contests on these forums as well as a skewed definition of what Arenanet themselves describe as "lively conversation".
    Seeing a video of someone easily beat something I have difficulty with along with their commentary on their opinion of my lacks or whatever isn't really helpful to me or does it address what I was talking about
    but it might score points with the choir

    No one cares about being popular here. Honestly if getting the answer literally handed to you in video form can't help you, then I'm not sure what will. You have not articulated in any fashion why the strategies provided by people in this thread are not useful. We are not here to agree with you. You presented an idea that is clearly way below the status quo for difficulty and are receiving the well expected disagreement.

    seeing a video doesnt magically give you the same skills. and isnt the first thread about this fight either.
    some classes can literally do it without breaking a sweat, while others are almost impossible.
    this is obviously one of the worst STORY bosses in the entire universe

    There was no skill needed. I auto attacked for 90% of the video. It was also done while being severely undergeared on the exact same class the op was using.

    so why couldnt he do it with a BETTER toon? think really hard about the answer...

    No need to ponder the answer. They couldn't do the bare minimum of even auto attacking. That's not the bar we should be balancing the game around.

    auto attack is a SKILL too, if you want to be pedantic about it. it is usually the first button on the SKILL BAR after all
    nice try BTW. but its about PLAYER skills, not CHARACTER skills

    That's right. Story episodes are designed to challenge the average player. This means that some players will struggle with it while others can win with both arms tied behind their back.

    and im telling you, that the average player dont even WANT this kind of challenge.
    and the fact that this boss is so poorly balanced for some classes is also a huge problem
    there is a word for this kind of of content, and it isnt flattering
    but i guess they are fine with running their own game into the ground
    maybe they are tired of the job, and just want out

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    Why bother responding to rub my nose in whatever? These forums are a bit a joke.
    PS don't you need to finish PoF to unlock skimmer underwater

    shrugs for the "elitist just get good" critics

    Then what exactly is the point of this thread? You post on a public forum and then complain that someone dare responding what they think about it? Then don't post anything and opt for a private diary. Just reread your first post, you didn't ask for anything, you just made a thread as if it's your personal blog: "content too hard for me, will I ever finish it? Nobody knows. Thanks for reading, bye".

    And about your next posts: the design isn't bad just because some people managed to not complete the content on their first try. If someone repeatedly fails at completing the story mode then they fail at basics of the game and need to improve, that's all.

    yea, thats right, people change all the time. its not like their personality or skillsets mean anything.
    and since this is the only mmo on the market, i guess they are stuck here forever. tough luck cookie

This discussion has been closed.