backstab is trash, buff it — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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backstab is trash, buff it

hitting it from the back should be felt more than other strong attacks :)

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  • can we also buff trash?

  • My dad told me the same thing

  • HAHA love troll posts. My thief when I run DrD backstabs just fine..but wait? buff = more damage...YES BUFF ME THEN

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Broady.2358 said:
    As a Thief main, Backstab is perfectly fine and currently very powerful! It is an attack which is hard to counter as it is delivered from Stealth. On average it will hit for 3-4k (sometimes more) unless going up against something with high toughness.

    The key is to remember the role of Thief. It is a roamer and +1, not a duellist. Dropping 4k from Stealth in combination with a team mate's burst along with CC from Basilisk Venom will bring them down to below 50% health usually allowing for you to get the most out of Heartseeker spam which is usually around 5-6k per Heartseeker.

    If you think Thief's damage is low, you're playing it wrong.

    I mean, 3-4k from your hardest hitting skill is very low. And thieves damage is very low. The point is that thief is still good because you dont need much damage. You just need enough for +1s to work. But in 2v2 and 3v3 gamemodes thief is the worst class as a result of the non-existent damage.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    Thief is unkillable since feb25. Until this isn't fixed its damage is even too high. It should simply do nothing besides decap, because no one can punish it. If you die on thief you overextended. You never have to. At worst you have ro run away after your "underpowered" backstab.

  • i got hit for a 5k CnD followed by a 7.5k backstab last night

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd be fine with it being buffed, but a properly anticipated evade causing it to whiff should be reliable death against ANY and ALL builds. It is far to easy to mess up and escape back into stealth, teleport away, or evade through any follow up pressure.

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Thief is unkillable since feb25. Until this isn't fixed its damage is even too high. It should simply do nothing besides decap, because no one can punish it. If you die on thief you overextended. You never have to. At worst you have ro run away after your "underpowered" backstab.

    Killing a thief made 0 sensec, u never wont focusca thief , thief being inmmortal is useless any good thief would cut halt its sustain for dmg

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Thief is unkillable since feb25. Until this isn't fixed its damage is even too high. It should simply do nothing besides decap, because no one can punish it. If you die on thief you overextended. You never have to. At worst you have ro run away after your "underpowered" backstab.

    Yeah, that damage nerf patch was kind of lame. After getting used to being able to oneshot and also getting oneshot if you do not pay attention... now you can just slot in the -30% damage while revealed trait and tank with berserker amulet. Maybe finish the balance rework CmC?

  • Naqam a.6521Naqam a.6521 Member ✭✭
    edited September 12, 2020

    Creates some traits In Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes to increase its damage , but overusing Stealth(DE) (using stealth to run its full course and not using it offensively , 20 sec spent into stealth over 1 min )
    will lower your benefit of 25% movement speed traits with each passing second , till you die

    Atleast as a Necros I spent those 6 sec downstate +15 sec dead + 6 sec moving to the first base (1/3 of the match with 8 deaths), watching animes and helping the enemy team get 40/500 points:)

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Naqam a.6521 said:
    Creates some traits In Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes to increase its damage , but overusing Stealth(DE) (using stealth to run its full course and not using it offensively , 20 sec spent into stealth over 1 min )
    will lower your benefit of 25% movement speed traits with each passing second , till you die

    Atleast as a Necros I spent those 6 sec downstate +15 sec dead + 6 sec moving to the first base (1/3 of the match with 8 deaths), watching animes and helping the enemy team get 40/500 points:)

    I was about to explode at this comment, but how do I criticise anyone who's watching anime?

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    sure. let's buff P/D 3, bcuz thieves arent pressing 3 enough on condi thief

  • Uh, Backstab crit removing 50% of my health (i have about 17k health) is not enough dmg?

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    @Sifu.9745 said:
    Uh, Backstab crit removing 50% of my health (i have about 17k health) is not enough dmg?

    Routinely take 12-15k bursts from shadow arts d/p thieves.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Broady.2358 said:
    As a Thief main, Backstab is perfectly fine and currently very powerful! It is an attack which is hard to counter as it is delivered from Stealth. On average it will hit for 3-4k (sometimes more) unless going up against something with high toughness.

    The key is to remember the role of Thief. It is a roamer and +1, not a duellist. Dropping 4k from Stealth in combination with a team mate's burst along with CC from Basilisk Venom will bring them down to below 50% health usually allowing for you to get the most out of Heartseeker spam which is usually around 5-6k per Heartseeker.

    If you think Thief's damage is low, you're playing it wrong.

    The definition of Thief shouldn't be Heartseeker spam. That's a meme, not a playstyle. Just because you play like somebody that just began playing GW2 doesn't mean everybody wants to.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    Yeah honestly everyone stop argueing with these players, their rediculous and not worth their time as they just lie to serve their agenda, not surprising but it's sad to have to resort to such over a game lmao. After feb patch it was teef does 4k still on bs pls nerf, then 7, then 8, then 10, now 16k lmao kitten. Go into the mists u ......... and go all dps and hit a heavy golem which nets u higher damage than the guard and wareior npc's near buy and ull get 4-6k or 5k tops on the npc's. Go SA and u get 3.5k on golem and 2-3k on the npc's. In wvw us have to be all glass pure power build with some good boons and a executioner to get close to 10k. Guys are sad asf in high lying to achieve what haha sad. It's funny all the logs shown are logs and not vids, and the high numbers arnt golem it's another player who probobly got their bud to stand their in the classiest build possible while getting booned by another ro get numbers as high as they can, hence the no vid cuz it's funny u can fo into the mists and see the real numbers so easily lmao.

  • Broady.2358Broady.2358 Member ✭✭✭

    The definition of Thief shouldn't be Heartseeker spam. That's a meme, not a playstyle. Just because you play like somebody that just began playing GW2 doesn't mean everybody wants to.

    What I meant by Heart Seeker spam is using the skill twice getting 5-6k damage each time. The problem is if we buff backstab an attack which is delivered from stealth (to which there is very little counter play or time to react) to deal even more damage that would make Thief way too strong.

    Right now in the meta, Thief is one of the top picks and arguably a must pick. To say the class needs a damage buff to backstab is beyond me. I would like to see a buff to deadly Arts and Critical Strikes to create some variety as Shadow Arts is too strong defensively

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    Buff thief damage, make stealth reveal on skill use, not on hit. Such kitten that dodging, blocking, or otherwise negating an attack that is from stealth keeps them in stealth. Its also one of the reasons mesmer and thief were so oppressive in the past. They could hit you from stealth and chain other attacks before they even rendered on your client.

  • Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

    being revealed when withing 75 would be legit useless as backstab has more range then 75, in NVO there was such a thing where you could see stealthed target when close to them, whatever the distance was set it was either useless as you couldnt see enemy as he was going to hit you, or OP as you could see enemy before he could hit you.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

    being revealed when withing 75 would be legit useless as backstab has more range then 75, in NVO there was such a thing where you could see stealthed target when close to them, whatever the distance was set it was either useless as you couldnt see enemy as he was going to hit you, or OP as you could see enemy before he could hit you.

    I'm usually behind a enemy when back stabbing, being somewhat revealed (cloak like) when I frontal view at a close range was just a thought on how to punish bad placement of the thief. If range on the reveal is to long then stealth becomes useless and if reveal didnt end and stealth resume when out of the in range frontal view it would again be useless.
    I say just cap it at 6 secs non stackable but reapliable and call it a day, less complicated and less work(anet love that) and is a nerf leaving stealth still useful.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

    being revealed when withing 75 would be legit useless as backstab has more range then 75, in NVO there was such a thing where you could see stealthed target when close to them, whatever the distance was set it was either useless as you couldnt see enemy as he was going to hit you, or OP as you could see enemy before he could hit you.

    I'm usually behind a enemy when back stabbing, being somewhat revealed (cloak like) when I frontal view at a close range was just a thought on how to punish bad placement of the thief. If range on the reveal is to long then stealth becomes useless and if reveal didnt end and stealth resume when out of the in range frontal view it would again be useless.
    I say just cap it at 6 secs non stackable but reapliable and call it a day, less complicated and less work(anet love that) and is a nerf leaving stealth still useful.

    Being visible in stealth would defeat its purpose. Why did I waste resources for that few second of invisibility if I'm being seen through a passive mechanic? As Leonidrex pointed out, this effect would be either useless or OP depending on the range. No middleground here. You either avoid getting backstabbed or you don't.

    Capping stealth on 6 seconds would ruin skills that apply more than 6 by default(PU mesmers would be sad), or rely on stacking its effect like Shadow Refuge. It's actually not "less work", you'd still have to rebalance a lot of stealth related skills. But lets say we've done the work, those skills have lower cooldowns with lower durations now... What exactly changed? Fights would still be exactly the same. 6 seconds is long enough for a stealth engage or disengage so... why did we do all this redesign and rebalancing work?

    Stop trying to change how stealth works. It's the same since release for a reason.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

    being revealed when withing 75 would be legit useless as backstab has more range then 75, in NVO there was such a thing where you could see stealthed target when close to them, whatever the distance was set it was either useless as you couldnt see enemy as he was going to hit you, or OP as you could see enemy before he could hit you.

    I'm usually behind a enemy when back stabbing, being somewhat revealed (cloak like) when I frontal view at a close range was just a thought on how to punish bad placement of the thief. If range on the reveal is to long then stealth becomes useless and if reveal didnt end and stealth resume when out of the in range frontal view it would again be useless.
    I say just cap it at 6 secs non stackable but reapliable and call it a day, less complicated and less work(anet love that) and is a nerf leaving stealth still useful.

    Being visible in stealth would defeat its purpose. Why did I waste resources for that few second of invisibility if I'm being seen through a passive mechanic? As Leonidrex pointed out, this effect would be either useless or OP depending on the range. No middleground here. You either avoid getting backstabbed or you don't.

    Capping stealth on 6 seconds would ruin skills that apply more than 6 by default(PU mesmers would be sad), or rely on stacking its effect like Shadow Refuge. It's actually not "less work", you'd still have to rebalance a lot of stealth related skills. But lets say we've done the work, those skills have lower cooldowns with lower durations now... What exactly changed? Fights would still be exactly the same. 6 seconds is long enough for a stealth engage or disengage so... why did we do all this redesign and rebalancing work?

    You can always make them the exceptions to the rule. The point is to prevent permastealthing, and make it less free to get the drop on someone out of stealth. If you cap it at 6 seconds, the thief would have to get creative to stealth up without the enemy being able to see the black powder and predicting a backstab in their near future. Its just a way to increase counterplay, though admitively in sPvP its not really as important as it is in WvW.

    Stop trying to change how stealth works. It's the same since release for a reason.

    It having stayed the same since release is not a good argument for not changing it. Sometimes eventually the problems become too clear and too impossible to avoid to not change it.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

    being revealed when withing 75 would be legit useless as backstab has more range then 75, in NVO there was such a thing where you could see stealthed target when close to them, whatever the distance was set it was either useless as you couldnt see enemy as he was going to hit you, or OP as you could see enemy before he could hit you.

    I'm usually behind a enemy when back stabbing, being somewhat revealed (cloak like) when I frontal view at a close range was just a thought on how to punish bad placement of the thief. If range on the reveal is to long then stealth becomes useless and if reveal didnt end and stealth resume when out of the in range frontal view it would again be useless.
    I say just cap it at 6 secs non stackable but reapliable and call it a day, less complicated and less work(anet love that) and is a nerf leaving stealth still useful.

    Being visible in stealth would defeat its purpose. Why did I waste resources for that few second of invisibility if I'm being seen through a passive mechanic? As Leonidrex pointed out, this effect would be either useless or OP depending on the range. No middleground here. You either avoid getting backstabbed or you don't.

    Capping stealth on 6 seconds would ruin skills that apply more than 6 by default(PU mesmers would be sad), or rely on stacking its effect like Shadow Refuge. It's actually not "less work", you'd still have to rebalance a lot of stealth related skills. But lets say we've done the work, those skills have lower cooldowns with lower durations now... What exactly changed? Fights would still be exactly the same. 6 seconds is long enough for a stealth engage or disengage so... why did we do all this redesign and rebalancing work?

    Stop trying to change how stealth works. It's the same since release for a reason.

    Umm I think u miss understand what I mean. Ud still be fully invisible as u are now but only visible if ur directly in front of a enemy in say 75 range or less and when visible it would be in form of a tell like the predators cloak and would revert back to full invisibility when out of that range or not directly in front of a enemy. Stealth would be useless at that point? Either way be to complicated for anet as I said so idea being good or bad doesn't matter lol. Trust me I'm not trying to change how stealth works as I've stated in other threads that stealth had work the same since the beginning and no real reworks are probable this late in the game. I'm personally fine with it as is.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Another fix would be make invisibility like it is but becomes like a cloak if in front of a enemie like say a range of 75, like a predictors cloak. Reveal on skill use and cap duration at 6 secs that's un stackable but reapliable.

    being revealed when withing 75 would be legit useless as backstab has more range then 75, in NVO there was such a thing where you could see stealthed target when close to them, whatever the distance was set it was either useless as you couldnt see enemy as he was going to hit you, or OP as you could see enemy before he could hit you.

    I'm usually behind a enemy when back stabbing, being somewhat revealed (cloak like) when I frontal view at a close range was just a thought on how to punish bad placement of the thief. If range on the reveal is to long then stealth becomes useless and if reveal didnt end and stealth resume when out of the in range frontal view it would again be useless.
    I say just cap it at 6 secs non stackable but reapliable and call it a day, less complicated and less work(anet love that) and is a nerf leaving stealth still useful.

    Being visible in stealth would defeat its purpose. Why did I waste resources for that few second of invisibility if I'm being seen through a passive mechanic? As Leonidrex pointed out, this effect would be either useless or OP depending on the range. No middleground here. You either avoid getting backstabbed or you don't.

    Capping stealth on 6 seconds would ruin skills that apply more than 6 by default(PU mesmers would be sad), or rely on stacking its effect like Shadow Refuge. It's actually not "less work", you'd still have to rebalance a lot of stealth related skills. But lets say we've done the work, those skills have lower cooldowns with lower durations now... What exactly changed? Fights would still be exactly the same. 6 seconds is long enough for a stealth engage or disengage so... why did we do all this redesign and rebalancing work?

    Stop trying to change how stealth works. It's the same since release for a reason.

    Umm I think u miss understand what I mean. Ud still be fully invisible as u are now but only visible if ur directly in front of a enemy in say 75 range or less and when visible it would be in form of a tell like the predators cloak and would revert back to full invisibility when out of that range or not directly in front of a enemy. Stealth would be useless at that point? Either way be to complicated for anet as I said so idea being good or bad doesn't matter lol. Trust me I'm not trying to change how stealth works as I've stated in other threads that stealth had work the same since the beginning and no real reworks are probable this late in the game. I'm personally fine with it as is.

    Would be better if some of the Reveal skills had good second mechanic that is useful outside reveal and gave something like the Maguma mastery that lets you see invisible NPC , you press the button for the next few seconds YOU(very important) get The Predator sight. Also there aren't many anti stealth skill in the game and most of them are quite crappy to boot https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed .