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Follow Up to my Original Post, "The Death of Thief"

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  • Lol owen, you are really talking some smack now. Go record and put EVERYONES mind at rest

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

    Now you do realize that if Ranger were actually faster than a Thief, we would have seen literally "unkillable uncatchable" Soulbeast bunkers a very long time ago, that could outrotate Thieves. It would have been noticed on like day 1 release of POF.

    The closest we've ever gotten to are old Boonbeast bunkers and they certainly were never anywhere near as fast as a Thief.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

    Yes because

    When it comes to track & field, some guys who were only mediocre while running around the track field, would move so much faster while going in only a straight line, and for some reason the guys were the fastest while going around the track field would magically slow down if forced to go in a straight line.

    Or perhaps its because dashes dont mesh well with inclines and cliffs, and targetted teleports do. By your logic there is no way the cheetah would ever beat the Ibex in a race, since the Ibex was so dominant when the race involved going up and down cliffs.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

    Yes because

    When it comes to track & field, some guys who were only mediocre while running around the track field, would move so much faster while going in only a straight line, and for some reason the guys were the fastest while going around the track field would magically slow down if forced to go in a straight line.

    Or perhaps its because dashes dont mesh well with inclines and cliffs, and targetted teleports do. By your logic there is no way the cheetah would ever beat the Ibex in a race, since the Ibex was so dominant when the race involved going up and down cliffs.

    Dude a conquest map is not running up the side of Mount Maelstrom.

    It is visually obvious in my video posted that running that lap in legacy mechanically functions exactly the same as if a player had ran in a straight line across Lion's Arch. I mean it's not impeding any of the class skills more or less than if I had ran in a straight line across a WvW map.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

    Yes because

    When it comes to track & field, some guys who were only mediocre while running around the track field, would move so much faster while going in only a straight line, and for some reason the guys were the fastest while going around the track field would magically slow down if forced to go in a straight line.

    Or perhaps its because dashes dont mesh well with inclines and cliffs, and targetted teleports do. By your logic there is no way the cheetah would ever beat the Ibex in a race, since the Ibex was so dominant when the race involved going up and down cliffs.

    Dude a conquest map is not running up the side of Mount Maelstrom.

    It was an exaggerated example, but the point stands.

    It is visually obvious in my video posted that running that lap in legacy mechanically functions exactly the same as if a player had ran in a straight line across Lion's Arch.

    It is visually obvious that that is absolutely NOT the case. If you compare the first and second dash of rampage, the second got you quite a fair bit less far (since you used it up an incline). Or how about your whirlwind attack up the staircase that basically didnt move you at all? Or how about the dashes that stopped moving you off a cliff, meaning you had to land before you could continue to move? Or how about you bonking into walls, and delaying your skills to first align them since there was no clear path? Plus the fact that since you had a curved route, linear dashes constantly were suboptimal. All major timelosses that do not affect the thief. I was able to shave 10 seconds off just by removing some of these timelosses.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.
    3. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.
    4. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.
    5. About facing for the use of LR just doesn't work out the way that people always beleive it would. It's great for escaping combat positions but it's garbage in a race. The time it takes to actually about face the first time and then to do it a second time after landing, is too much time to make this technique worth using in a race. Again, try it yourself and you'll see what I mean. It isn't practical to do. Maybe if you had a macro it could make a small gain but even then it wouldn't be much. Believe it or not, just running with 33% swiftness is 90% as fast as monkeying around with LR about facing.
    6. And about Thief yeah, I had thought about that as well. I didn't like sit and practice that lap over and over like a Beetle race for a gold reward so, it is what it is in the film. I made mistakes on each class, small mistakes. But the video is a good representation of the reality of the speed potentials. If I had polished up the laps, the D/P Daredevil would still be making large solid ground beyond the War and the Range. The use of just Shadowstep in the way you just explained, is a huge increase in time by itself. That would cut like 4s or more on the lap right there, just that one technique.
  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 every forum has THAT GUY, that odd guy. he is our THAT GUY xd

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Oh, do they now?. Yeah thats a load of kitten. And you use it while merged. And then there are stances or warhorn or whatever.

    That "weird animation" is called a cast time. Its still faster. And sure, as I said, its redundant anyway. Youre ahead. And sure it wouldnt be good for 1v1s or teamfights. But neither is thief, is it? The point is to have a hypothetical thief analogue that can move across the map if they were horizontal.

    I get the feeling you don't really run rangers in spvp? The entire array of stuff you're talking about seems to combine pets and weapons that would never appear all at once in a practical spvp build. At this point you'll probably just say "well this is about a hypothetical foot race!" But to me, that only reinforces the idea that thief mobillity in realistic/practical spvp situations is not nearly as disadvantaged as you make it sound.

    Also, as it pertains to the ranger MH sw2 cast time, it really does matter. The very sticky delays on both sword 3 and about-face sword 2 for mobility really cut into that combo's ability to move rangers across the field. I've practiced that opening many times in many matches, and guess what? Teammates just running in a straight line out of spawn can easily match me, and outright beat me if they have swiftness. What you dismiss as a mere cast time animation is 100% relevant here, as it significantly slows movement.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    I'd put my money on you, solely because Uno seems not to have played rangers recently.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    Crystal Oasis, start at the first WP in the city, run the path that leads to Kormir's Temple.

    It's 90% straight horizontal lines, outside of a few wide & easy to manage turns, and 1 flight of steps that leads up to the temple. There aren't even any creatures that will get in your way.

    This path is every bit as easy to run as anywhere in wvw.

  • @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Oh, do they now?. Yeah thats a load of kitten. And you use it while merged. And then there are stances or warhorn or whatever.

    That "weird animation" is called a cast time. Its still faster. And sure, as I said, its redundant anyway. Youre ahead. And sure it wouldnt be good for 1v1s or teamfights. But neither is thief, is it? The point is to have a hypothetical thief analogue that can move across the map if they were horizontal.

    I get the feeling you don't really run rangers in spvp? The entire array of stuff you're talking about seems to combine pets and weapons that would never appear all at once in a practical spvp build. At this point you'll probably just say "well this is about a hypothetical foot race!" But to me, that only reinforces the idea that thief mobillity in realistic/practical spvp situations is not nearly as disadvantaged as you make it sound.

    Also, as it pertains to the ranger MH sw2 cast time, it really does matter. The very sticky delays on both sword 3 and about-face sword 2 for mobility really cut into that combo's ability to move rangers across the field. I've practiced that opening many times in many matches, and guess what? Teammates just running in a straight line out of spawn can easily match me, and outright beat me if they have swiftness. What you dismiss as a mere cast time animation is 100% relevant here, as it significantly slows movement.

    Exactly.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    Wow weird arguement. Thief is faster than ranger on any plane. Ranger does have great mobility, as it should but it doesn't match thief's which it shouldn't for a variety of reasons which should be obvious to most players.Sure wars and rangers can keep up to thief for a distance but thief would pull a head over time 100%. Rogue like are usually the highest mobility archetype in mmo's and gw2 is no different.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Oh, do they now?. Yeah thats a load of kitten. And you use it while merged. And then there are stances or warhorn or whatever.

    That "weird animation" is called a cast time. Its still faster. And sure, as I said, its redundant anyway. Youre ahead. And sure it wouldnt be good for 1v1s or teamfights. But neither is thief, is it? The point is to have a hypothetical thief analogue that can move across the map if they were horizontal.

    I get the feeling you don't really run rangers in spvp? The entire array of stuff you're talking about seems to combine pets and weapons that would never appear all at once in a practical spvp build. At this point you'll probably just say "well this is about a hypothetical foot race!" But to me, that only reinforces the idea that thief mobillity in realistic/practical spvp situations is not nearly as disadvantaged as you make it sound.

    Boonbeast wasnt that long ago, yknow? Hell, in WvW its still a thing. And no I never said its disadvantaged. Perfectly horizontal movement is not a realistic scenario outside of WvW. In sPvP, with its vertical maps, thief is at a major advantage. But, that was the point. The original context for this was me saying that thieves mobility in an sPvP context was unmatched. That you couldnt buff thief because no one moves as fast. Someone else chimed in that Ranger and Warrior were also extremely mobile. I pointed out that while they do outrun thief in a perfectly horizontal space, sPvP map design renders that advantage moot. And then Trevor decided to say "nah ranger and warrior totally dont outrun thief in a horizontal race", and used all kinds of wacky logic and shoddy methodology to try (and fail) to prove it.

    Also, as it pertains to the ranger MH sw2 cast time, it really does matter. The very sticky delays on both sword 3 and about-face sword 2 for mobility really cut into that combo's ability to move rangers across the field. I've practiced that opening many times in many matches, and guess what? Teammates just running in a straight line out of spawn can easily match me, and outright beat me if they have swiftness. What you dismiss as a mere cast time animation is 100% relevant here, as it significantly slows movement.

    Yeah Im gonna easily call kitten. Actually, why are you talking sword? I ended up not using sword in any of the comparisions. For that matter, why are you using about-face on sword 2, its sword 3 that evades backwards.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    The death of thief is the horizontal mobility debate. I mean I've read ALL OF IT(an online class was supposed to be taking place but didn't, I had 90 minutes to kill), and I definitely feel closer to death now.

  • Naqam a.6521Naqam a.6521 Member ✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    1 month

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

  • Naqam a.6521Naqam a.6521 Member ✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .
    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    Just like saying to Trevor ''i don't to to fight becuse you will wrong me , and we cant meet in the WvWvW link'' rather admiting that you are wrong there too :)
    Just take his bet and go in an open PvE map

    I can use too inaccurate links too
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Movement_Speed#Movement_Speed_Stacking.3F
    Speed measurements:
    ''I tested movement speeds by measuring distance via leap abilities and then timing multiple runs between points. Non-combat speed is about 300 range units/second, while combat speed is about 215 range units/second. I've updated the page accordingly. --Deadpoint 04:38, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

    I did some testing by measuring the time difference between which a 1200 range skill and a 600 range skill came within range. My exact values were 296 out of combat run, 179 out of combat strafe, 105 out of combat backpedal, 210 in combat run, 178 in combat strafe, and 105 in combat backpedal. This means strafe/backpedal is 60%/35% run speed out of combat but 85%/50% in combat speed. I'm going to put slight approximations (to keep things even seeming) of my numbers on the main page ~ Capric 02:02, 12 September 2012 (UTC)''

    1 month

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

  • Naqam a.6521Naqam a.6521 Member ✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    You simply try to pass inaccurate things as true , with me and Trevor
    Take his race in PvE map please

    1 month

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

  • Naqam a.6521Naqam a.6521 Member ✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

    If :
    539 = 100%
    xxx = 37%

    Take Trevor PvE race !

    1 month

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

    If :
    539 = 100%
    xxx = 37%

    Go on , i wait

    Ok yeah you just dont understand 7th grade mathematics. A 37% increase compared to X means X*1.37, or X + 37% of X. So, how do you get X from the result of this? Simple, you take X, and divide it by 1.37. Thats what I did. Thats how you see movement speed is identical in both games. Assuming youre not trolling, your issue is that you arent very bright when it comes to math, and thought that you can just take 37% of the result away from the result to get the original. But that would mean you get 1*1.16*0.84=0.97, or 97% of the actual X. In the other case you get 1*1.37*0.63=0.86, or 86% of the actual X.

  • Naqam a.6521Naqam a.6521 Member ✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

    If :
    539 = 100%
    xxx = 37%

    Go on , i wait

    Ok yeah you just dont understand 7th grade mathematics. A 37% increase compared to X means X*1.37, or X + 37% of X. So, how do you get X from the result of this? Simple, you take X, and divide it by 1.37. Thats what I did. Thats how you see movement speed is identical in both games. Assuming youre not trolling, your issue is that you arent very bright when it comes to math, and thought that you can just take 37% of the result away from the result to get the original. But that would mean you get 1*1.16*0.84=0.97, or 97% of the actual X. In the other case you get 1*1.37*0.63=0.86, or 86% of the actual X.

    We are trying to find the ''x''
    We don't know the ''x''

    We have 2 numbers :
    a) 539 u/s mount speed , equals to 100%
    b) the person moves 37% slower
    c) find the movements speed of the person

    0,63 x 539 = 339,5 ?

    1 month

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

    If :
    539 = 100%
    xxx = 37%

    Go on , i wait

    Ok yeah you just dont understand 7th grade mathematics. A 37% increase compared to X means X*1.37, or X + 37% of X. So, how do you get X from the result of this? Simple, you take X, and divide it by 1.37. Thats what I did. Thats how you see movement speed is identical in both games. Assuming youre not trolling, your issue is that you arent very bright when it comes to math, and thought that you can just take 37% of the result away from the result to get the original. But that would mean you get 1*1.16*0.84=0.97, or 97% of the actual X. In the other case you get 1*1.37*0.63=0.86, or 86% of the actual X.

    We are trying to find the ''x''
    We don't know the ''x''

    We have 2 numbers :
    a) 539 u/s mount speed , equals to 100%
    b) the person moves 37% slower

    This is where your critical error lies. The mount moves 37% faster. But that doesnt mean the person moves 37% slower. It actually means the person moves at 1/1.37= 0.73, or 73% of the mounts speed. Or in simpler terms, the person moves 27% slower.

    c) find the movements speed of the person

    So, 539*0.73=393. Rounding, but still the exact same movement speed. You may want to get math tutoring.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

    If :
    539 = 100%
    xxx = 37%

    Go on , i wait

    Ok yeah you just dont understand 7th grade mathematics. A 37% increase compared to X means X*1.37, or X + 37% of X. So, how do you get X from the result of this? Simple, you take X, and divide it by 1.37. Thats what I did. Thats how you see movement speed is identical in both games. Assuming youre not trolling, your issue is that you arent very bright when it comes to math, and thought that you can just take 37% of the result away from the result to get the original. But that would mean you get 1*1.16*0.84=0.97, or 97% of the actual X. In the other case you get 1*1.37*0.63=0.86, or 86% of the actual X.

    We are trying to find the ''x''
    We don't know the ''x''

    We have 2 numbers :
    a) 539 u/s mount speed , equals to 100%
    b) the person moves 37% slower

    This is where your critical error lies. The mount moves 37% faster. But that doesnt mean the person moves 37% slower. It actually means the person moves at 1/1.37= 0.73, or 73% of the mounts speed. Or in simpler terms, the person moves 27% slower.

    c) find the movements speed of the person

    So, 539*0.73=393. Rounding, but still the exact same movement speed. You may want to get math tutoring.

    We so lets get it straight
    If it was increase , it would be x1,37
    And in decrease its 0,73 and not 1-0,37=0,63 ?

    1 month

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

    If :
    539 = 100%
    xxx = 37%

    Go on , i wait

    Ok yeah you just dont understand 7th grade mathematics. A 37% increase compared to X means X*1.37, or X + 37% of X. So, how do you get X from the result of this? Simple, you take X, and divide it by 1.37. Thats what I did. Thats how you see movement speed is identical in both games. Assuming youre not trolling, your issue is that you arent very bright when it comes to math, and thought that you can just take 37% of the result away from the result to get the original. But that would mean you get 1*1.16*0.84=0.97, or 97% of the actual X. In the other case you get 1*1.37*0.63=0.86, or 86% of the actual X.

    We are trying to find the ''x''
    We don't know the ''x''

    We have 2 numbers :
    a) 539 u/s mount speed , equals to 100%
    b) the person moves 37% slower

    This is where your critical error lies. The mount moves 37% faster. But that doesnt mean the person moves 37% slower. It actually means the person moves at 1/1.37= 0.73, or 73% of the mounts speed. Or in simpler terms, the person moves 27% slower.

    c) find the movements speed of the person

    So, 539*0.73=393. Rounding, but still the exact same movement speed. You may want to get math tutoring.

    We so lets get it straight
    If it was increase , it would be x1,37

    Yes, 37% faster means multiplying by 1.37

    And in decrease its 0,73 and not 1-0,37=0,63 ?

    Yes, You multiplied. Whats the reverse operation to multiplying? Dividing. So you divide by 1.37. Thats the same as multiplying with 0.73. Again, math tutoring. You should consider it.

  • Naqam a.6521Naqam a.6521 Member ✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

    If :
    539 = 100%
    xxx = 37%

    Go on , i wait

    Ok yeah you just dont understand 7th grade mathematics. A 37% increase compared to X means X*1.37, or X + 37% of X. So, how do you get X from the result of this? Simple, you take X, and divide it by 1.37. Thats what I did. Thats how you see movement speed is identical in both games. Assuming youre not trolling, your issue is that you arent very bright when it comes to math, and thought that you can just take 37% of the result away from the result to get the original. But that would mean you get 1*1.16*0.84=0.97, or 97% of the actual X. In the other case you get 1*1.37*0.63=0.86, or 86% of the actual X.

    We are trying to find the ''x''
    We don't know the ''x''

    We have 2 numbers :
    a) 539 u/s mount speed , equals to 100%
    b) the person moves 37% slower

    This is where your critical error lies. The mount moves 37% faster. But that doesnt mean the person moves 37% slower. It actually means the person moves at 1/1.37= 0.73, or 73% of the mounts speed. Or in simpler terms, the person moves 27% slower.

    c) find the movements speed of the person

    So, 539*0.73=393. Rounding, but still the exact same movement speed. You may want to get math tutoring.

    We so lets get it straight
    If it was increase , it would be x1,37

    Yes, 37% faster means multiplying by 1.37

    And in decrease its 0,73 and not 1-0,37=0,63 ?

    Yes, You multiplied. Whats the reverse operation to multiplying? Dividing. So you divide by 1.37. Thats the same as multiplying with 0.73. Again, math tutoring. You should consider it.

    We dont know that 392 is the x
    We are trying to find the ''x''
    We don't know the ''x''

    We have 2 numbers :
    a) 539 u/s mount speed , equals to 100%
    b) the person moves 37% slower
    c) find the number

    539 x 37% /100 = yyy
    539 - yyy = xxx

    1 month

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Naqam a.6521 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    I am willing to stream it as well. I'll play the Thief. And yes, I want to put gold down on this.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    The obvious solution to this is get Trevor on thief and unowen on ranger/warrior in the same foefire custom arena together and have them foot race from one Lord room to the other (no porting over the cliffs in the middle). As for me I'll gladly bet 100g on thief winning, any takers?

    Which part of "perfectly horizontal" are you not quite getting? The point was that specifically sPvPs non-horizontal map design is why thieves mobility beats ranger and warrior, while WvWs perfectly flat planes make warrior and ranger win.

    We can do it in pvp, in wvw, in a pve dungeon, in a plane, on a train, it won't matter. The Thief will always win.

    Find a friend on soulbeast and warrior and do it then. And do it properly, like I did a while back. Odds are youll get the same result, which is warrior and ranger winning. Do watch out if youre trying to do it around castle in EBG though, sometimes you get the no valid path thing there, which might ruin the race. But no, thief will never win on a perfectly horizontal plane. Thats what the math shows, and thats what a couple tests I did showed as well.

    No, I need you to help me do this race so it gets done properly. I want to play the Thief and you be on the Soulbeast.

    What if I say no? Ive seen how this goes before, even when they get proven wrong, people dont admit it.

    Funny you mention that.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Trevor Boyer.6524
    I would bet gold on that too, if it comes to that I bet 300g on tif, if there are any takers.
    If mathematician doesnt kitten out, makes sure to record so we all can have a good laugh, dont be selfish plx.

    Time to ante up boys.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Dont make him repeat himself pls

    Too late.

    And on that day, a fine test sample was ran for everyone's enjoyment:

    this is very well made, but there is couple of things you did wrong or could do better.
    1 warrior gets movespeed boost on GS, so if you dont use cooldowns you should sit on GS for extra movspeed
    2 you could animation cancel dash/gs3 with weapon swap when possible.

    Ranger
    1 you had no swiftness entire time??? + pet swap give superspeed doesnt it? isnt merge cd like 10s so you could both have swoop + superspeed off cd
    2 you didnt use lightning dodge thing for mobility, about face -> use it to gain distance

    Thief
    more about timing then anything else but if done properly you could have shadowstep near the lord in a way that lets yu shadowstep in and out for extra teleport.

    I've already went over this previously but I'll toss it out there again:

    1. War gains the same exact movement with GS as it does with any other melee weapon if traited for Warrior's Sprint.
    2. I dunno about all that animation canceling while running on a War, but none of that will make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead during the lap. Could gain a solid 4s-5s though, possibly. I'm not a master of War though. Someone else would have to run the circuit and try it.

    Oh you get 10 seconds for free just for not making mistakes. Dunno how much animation cancelling matters, but if its an additional 5 seconds, that would mean thief is only 3 seconds ahead of warrior despite a non-horizontal map.

    1. I don't need Swiftness on Soulbeast. Soulbeasts use the trait in Beastmastery which grants them a baseline 30% movement while merged. If I had Swiftness I would go 3% faster during WASD movement but that hardly would make up for 20s that the Thief gets ahead. It may gain 2s or 3s MAYBE by the end of that lap.

    Again, 10 seconds you get to shave off for free. Though I did use swiftness, so maybe thats included.

    1. Ranger pet swap traits or even weapon swap traits do not work out of combat. This guy had insisted that this test be an out of combat race. Also, pet swapping on Soulbeast for purposes of mobility don't work. When you leave merge mode, the merge goes on a 10s CD. Then you have to wait 10s before you can even access the next pet to use its skill. During this time you don't benefit the baseline 30% movement from Beastmastery. You'd have to change a bunch selections to be able to have Swiftness all of the time, which lowers your mobility in other places. Bird F2 Swoop is also an 18s CD now so it isn't worth swapping between pets to have that in conjunction with the extra 10s CD in between. It's best to just camp Gazelle F2 which is the same distance as Swoop but on only a 12s CD. If you were to go in-game and try to tweak for a mobile Soulbeast build, you'd see what I mean. Pet swapping for mobility just doesn't cycle right. You end up moving slower, surprisingly.

    You really dont. Quickening screech alone gets you 5/6 uptime on swiftness. Use literally any skill that grants swiftness (say, "Strength of the Pack!") and youre at 100% uptime. And if that really does move you slower (I admit, I didnt compare), then you can shave even more than 10 seconds off your time, seeing how I swapped between the 2. Edit: actually I forgot about the beastmode cooldown here. Use warhorn, we heal as one or whatever you want to pick.

    lol

    Dude you are the only person in any forum that I have ever seen, that I am truly unsure if you are being serious or trolling me.

    Because I simply point out your mistakes? I mean lets take a look at the warrior for example. So for example, by delaying the second dash, you failed to get the third dash. That alone is a 2 second timeloss. Then you had that part where your rush either bugged out, or you just didnt move after it, another easy 2 second timeloss. The whirlwind attack on the stairs. Bonking into a wall. The very poor route. So much time lost completely unneccessarily. So why do you think me pointing out your mistakes is "trolling".

    You should receive a special badge icon next to your name for being able to do it.

    If anything you should, because with you I legitimately am not sure if youre trolling or just really believe your own kitten.

    You know what? I'm going to go in game and find a perfect place for people to perform a run like this for speed times. Hold on.

    And then you will do the race, realise ranger wins with seconds to spare, and never post the result is my guess. Looking at your next post, and no follow-up to it, looks like that did indeed happen.

    If you want to disprove him , you can take his offer for a Race Battle .
    You can do it in any open field PvE map , by simply inv each other and right click his character portait and ''join his server/overflow'' .
    If you in NA or EU , i can sponsor an account to each other :)

    You can install ''Frap'' , and lesser record program that when installed , the only button you push Push is ''Record'' and there is no need to optimization , if you believe that he is going to ''wrong you''

    Just like our conversation for the outdoor movement speed , as a new player you simply don't have the hidden knowledge and you try to repeat everything you hear on the reddit as facts

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    So:
    WvWvW :
    453 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 16% slower = 380,5 yards per sec

    PvE :
    539 u/s mount speed
    Then the person on foot with Swiftness , runs 37% slower = 339,5 yards per sec

    While in reality is the opposite and the one made the calculations did an oppsie
    And there a limit ,because the PvP maps are small in size and strategically your death and slow movement , benefit the one that killed you to cap faster the WvWvW + PvP objective

    Some trolls just do not know when to quit. You already were proven wrong, learn to accept it. PvE and WvW movement speed is the same. As for why Im not doing it, A, its a waste of time since he will just act it never happened after the result ends up not being what he wants it to be (And Im not gonna bother installing recording software). B, its not even proper methodology. WvW and PvE have certain skills that are different between them. Ranger in PvE actually pulls even further ahead. A stretch of flat ground that a ranger needs 30 seconds for, a thief needs about 37 seconds for. Thats a considerably bigger gap than in WvW. Even if I were to record it, he would just go "well in PvE that and that cooldown is lower, so ranger is faster". And you know what? He would be right. Therefore its pointless.

    Also are you just not familiar with how math works? If something is 16% faster than something else, that doesnt mean you can just go "Oh so if I take 16% away I get the actual speed". Movement speed with swiftness in both PvE and WvW is 392. So, lets take 392, and add 16%. Thats 392*1.16= 454. One unit over, but we can chalk this up to rounding errors. So movement in WvW is, as we expected, 392. How about PvE? 392*1.37= 537. Again, rounding errors probably. So, turns out movement speed is identical. Are you done trolling now?

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts

    No, youre stating fiction you try to disguise as facts.

    You said that there is not difference in the out of combat movement between the PvE and WvWvW , and i disproved you , by using the linked that you directed to me .

    I did indeed say that, because there isnt. And you didnt disprove anything, you just proved you dont understand how mathematics work. I fixed your math, and then it proved again that its identical.

    You linked me a thread (Warclaw) and you didn't even try to read te full thread and tried to pass it as a facts

    No I did. I just didnt expect you to lack 7th grade math knowledge.

    I am sorry but i am stating the facts
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw
    Notes:
    Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.

    Ok, so from that, lets draw the movement speed for each gamemode. WvW is 453/1.16= 390.5. Within margin of rounding error. PvE is 539/1.37=393. Within margin of rounding error. Its the same. So are you done trolling yet, or are you legitimately just incapable of understanding this?

    If :
    539 = 100%
    xxx = 37%

    Go on , i wait

    Ok yeah you just dont understand 7th grade mathematics. A 37% increase compared to X means X*1.37, or X + 37% of X. So, how do you get X from the result of this? Simple, you take X, and divide it by 1.37. Thats what I did. Thats how you see movement speed is identical in both games. Assuming youre not trolling, your issue is that you arent very bright when it comes to math, and thought that you can just take 37% of the result away from the result to get the original. But that would mean you get 1*1.16*0.84=0.97, or 97% of the actual X. In the other case you get 1*1.37*0.63=0.86, or 86% of the actual X.

    We are trying to find the ''x''
    We don't know the ''x''

    We have 2 numbers :
    a) 539 u/s mount speed , equals to 100%
    b) the person moves 37% slower

    This is where your critical error lies. The mount moves 37% faster. But that doesnt mean the person moves 37% slower. It actually means the person moves at 1/1.37= 0.73, or 73% of the mounts speed. Or in simpler terms, the person moves 27% slower.

    c) find the movements speed of the person

    So, 539*0.73=393. Rounding, but still the exact same movement speed. You may want to get math tutoring.

    We so lets get it straight
    If it was increase , it would be x1,37

    Yes, 37% faster means multiplying by 1.37

    And in decrease its 0,73 and not 1-0,37=0,63 ?

    Yes, You multiplied. Whats the reverse operation to multiplying? Dividing. So you divide by 1.37. Thats the same as multiplying with 0.73. Again, math tutoring. You should consider it.

    We dont know that 392 is the x
    We are trying to find the ''x''
    We don't know the ''x''

    Thats why you divide by 1.37. 539/1.37=393. Then you can use that X you found to check your result, by multiplying it with 1.37. As expected, you get 539. And I have already explained to you why youre wrong and why your math is bad. Again, get math tutoring. Though I dont envy your future tutor, I had an easier time explaining this kind of stuff to some classmates back in 7th grade.

  • @Naqam a.6521 owen is right about the mount speed thing

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @Naqam a.6521
    Its movement speed in PvE is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.
    what do we gain from it?
    539 u/s which is 37% higher then ooc movespeed with swiftness.
    If OOC movespeed with swiftness is X then warclaw speed is 1,37X
    539 u/s = 1,37X
    ooc speed = X
    539/1,37 ( u/s ) = X
    X=393,4 u/s

    EDIT
    I just realized where your mistake lies.
    Warclaw moves 37% faster then someone with swiftness.
    It DOESNT mean that someone with swiftness moves 37% slower.
    if warclaw = 137% speed
    swiftness = 100% speed
    then 137/100 =0,37 = 37% ( faster warclaw )
    but 100/137 = 0,73 = 27% slower with swiftness

  • X=y÷397€(45x6÷1)×4¥+2/-896¥x= xyz₩
    There I laid it out for u guys, cant refute these cold hard calculations. Ur both right yet ur both wrong, next .......

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    This whole thread is multiple flavors of "Thief should not be able to play the game because of that one shortbow skill." I'd be upset if I had any emotional investment left in this.

    Let's say Infiltrator's arrow cost 12 init and also gave swiftness for 12 seconds upon use. Would thieves be allowed to make duelist specs then, or are we going to fall back on "but stealth" ?

    Yes. Theyd need those probably, too. Cant imagine why anyone would pick thief otherwise, if infiltrators arrow was nerfed that hard. But then people who enjoy the current playstyle of thief would lose their playstyle. Im not sure you can really justify that.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    This whole thread is multiple flavors of "Thief should not be able to play the game because of that one shortbow skill." I'd be upset if I had any emotional investment left in this.

    Let's say Infiltrator's arrow cost 12 init and also gave swiftness for 12 seconds upon use. Would thieves be allowed to make duelist specs then, or are we going to fall back on "but stealth" ?

    Yes. Theyd need those probably, too. Cant imagine why anyone would pick thief otherwise, if infiltrators arrow was nerfed that hard. But then people who enjoy the current playstyle of thief would lose their playstyle. Im not sure you can really justify that.

    The only people enjoying the playstyle of thief right now are the people using the condi build (paired with shortbow so they can escape) and the people who enjoy decapping.

    I'm probably jaded, but if the entire balancing of a class has to suffer because one skill on one weapon out of.... six weapons and their variations merely exists as an option , I'm not willing to accept that.

    Either reward thief specifically for -not- taking shortbow on one of their core lines, like trickery, or nuke infiltrator's arrow and heavily buff all their weapons so they can commit to a fight and win it. I'm tired of seeing pages of pages of forums explaining to me why I can't 1v1/sidenode because I picked the wrong class to pvp on.

    I'm sure some other class would like to be meta decap bot for a bit and get their dps shaved because they're good at it. Probably Holosmith. Because rocket boots or something.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    This whole thread is multiple flavors of "Thief should not be able to play the game because of that one shortbow skill." I'd be upset if I had any emotional investment left in this.

    Let's say Infiltrator's arrow cost 12 init and also gave swiftness for 12 seconds upon use. Would thieves be allowed to make duelist specs then, or are we going to fall back on "but stealth" ?

    Yes. Theyd need those probably, too. Cant imagine why anyone would pick thief otherwise, if infiltrators arrow was nerfed that hard. But then people who enjoy the current playstyle of thief would lose their playstyle. Im not sure you can really justify that.

    The only people enjoying the playstyle of thief right now are the people using the condi build (paired with shortbow so they can escape) and the people who enjoy decapping.

    Well more accurately its the people who enjoy moving around the map and being in the right place at the right time. And who am I to say that enjoying that isnt valid.

    I'm probably jaded, but if the entire balancing of a class has to suffer because one skill on one weapon out of.... six weapons and their variations merely exists as an option, I'm not willing to accept that.

    I cant say Im happy with it, but here is my logic. If you want a thief-like duelist, you do have other options. Revenant for example. But the pure map movement playstyle? Thief is the only one that really does that. And I cant really justify removing a playstyle.

    Either reward thief specifically for -not- taking shortbow on one of their core lines, like trickery, or nuke infiltrator's arrow and heavily buff all their weapons so they can commit to a fight and win it. I'm tired of seeing pages of pages of forums explaining to me why I can't 1v1/sidenode because I picked the wrong class to pvp on.

    Well, on that, there actually are a few possible solutions I have considered before. Making it so thief cant weaponswap in sPvP (including out of combat), making it easy to balance it since shortbow 5 is self-contained. But its kind of a clunky solution.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Well more accurately its the people who enjoy moving around the map and being in the right place at the right time. And who am I to say that enjoying that isnt valid.

    Fair point, but there are several classes that can build for swiftness stacking/moving fast that should also be allowed to play this way. Moving around the map/being available for +1 is not and should not be encouraged to be a "thief only" thing.

    I cant say Im happy with it, but here is my logic. If you want a thief-like duelist, you do have other options. Revenant for example. But the pure map movement playstyle? Thief is the only one that really does that. And I cant really justify removing a playstyle.

    So be it. If the point of thief is specifically that pure map movement playstyle and nothing else, then I guess any balancing for damage + is off the table and you should play something else that actually has the damage.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Well more accurately its the people who enjoy moving around the map and being in the right place at the right time. And who am I to say that enjoying that isnt valid.

    Fair point, but there are several classes that can build for swiftness stacking/moving fast that should also be allowed to play this way. Moving around the map/being available for +1 is not and should not be encouraged to be a "thief only" thing.

    The issue is that thief is a lot faster than them. And its this ability of being faster that makes thieves playstyle work. You can still rotate and +1, but you cant focus on it like thief does.

    I cant say Im happy with it, but here is my logic. If you want a thief-like duelist, you do have other options. Revenant for example. But the pure map movement playstyle? Thief is the only one that really does that. And I cant really justify removing a playstyle.

    So be it. If the point of thief is specifically that pure map movement playstyle and nothing else, then I guess any balancing for damage + is off the table and you should play something else that actually has the damage.

    Afraid so. Ive long switched to Core Engineer.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2020

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    This whole thread is multiple flavors of "Thief should not be able to play the game because of that one shortbow skill." I'd be upset if I had any emotional investment left in this.

    Let's say, hypothetically, Infiltrator's arrow cost 12 init and also gave swiftness for 12 seconds upon use. Would thieves be allowed to make duelist specs then, or are we going to fall back on "but stealth" ?

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    The skills team needs to remove the evade off vault to make it a good weapon in PvP, it'll always be trash until they do that as that skill being an evade holds the weapon back forever in PvP.

    I need a cup of serotonin.

    I'm almost glad the balance team doesn't pay attention to these forums as much as people think they should.

    Trust me no one really seriously thinks anet should listen to these forums lol at least not 99% of what's posted, the only people that could balance the game worse then anet are its players lol.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    This whole thread is multiple flavors of "Thief should not be able to play the game because of that one shortbow skill." I'd be upset if I had any emotional investment left in this.

    Let's say, hypothetically, Infiltrator's arrow cost 12 init and also gave swiftness for 12 seconds upon use. Would thieves be allowed to make duelist specs then, or are we going to fall back on "but stealth" ?

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    The skills team needs to remove the evade off vault to make it a good weapon in PvP, it'll always be trash until they do that as that skill being an evade holds the weapon back forever in PvP.

    I need a cup of serotonin.

    I'm almost glad the balance team doesn't pay attention to these forums as much as people think they should.

    Trust me no one really seriously thinks anet should listen to these forums lol at least not 99% of what's posted, the only people that could balance the game worse then anet are its players lol.

    I'm not quite sure. Some players, absolutely. Others i'm sure aren't blind to the issues.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

    It's unambiguously the fastest, even without vertical porting short cuts. The level of bias to even think thief is slow compared to warrior and ranger is to a degree of outright derangement.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Reminder that steal and shadowshot give thief increased mobility when chasing targets, which is why they can secure kills so easily.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    The problem is that Anet does not have a sound balance philosophy...It was flawed to the very core from the beginning of this games inception, and it has culminated into taking the most drastic measures, measures in which are built and still based on something that is still fundamentally flawed.

    This is basically the problem. It's something I have been trying to convey with my occasional TL;DR threads ( https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/106433/7-examples-and-fixes-showing-most-remaining-balance-issues-are-due-to-busted-design-mechanics ) ( https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97262/why-increasing-cooldowns-does-not-reduce-spam-and-can-even-make-spam-worse ) ( https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86519/the-elephant-in-the-balance-room-how-cheese-has-evolved-to-hurt-gw2-pvp-more-than-balance )

    The TL;DR of it is that GW2 is overall a good game that is hampered by a small handful of very badly designed mechanics. Rather than try to acknowledge or fix these mechanics, they opt instead for "numbers nerfs". Increasing cooldowns. Reducing damage modifiers. etc. The problem is that this type of balance style of nerfing around problems instead of fixing problems only gives the illusion of balance, and in the long run can even make things worse.

    "making things worse" is absolutely the case with thief. If the way stealth worked in this game wasn't so uninteractive and hand-holding, thief could easily justify having a decent damage buff. If they finally took a look at sword 2, this buff could be even more. But they don't. Instead, they nerf everything about the class except the monkey kitten. The result is that in order to play the class, you are actually forced to run a build that ironically ends up taking even greater advantage of the bad mechanics that were causing problems in the first place. Shadow arts thus becomes the meta. This is what nerfing around cheese ultimately results in. When you nerf everything except cheese, the only thing that is left is cheese.

    PvP will continue to bleed players until Anet finally realizes this. End of Dragons is IMO pretty much going to be their final shot.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

    It's unambiguously the fastest, even without vertical porting short cuts. The level of bias to even think thief is slow compared to warrior and ranger is to a degree of outright derangement.

    Its not, and if you played WvW at all you would know that. Thief can escape from everyone (because you can quickly port out of combat and mount up), but a thief will never catch a warrior or a ranger in a flat plane in WvW. Because when their dashes can actually go the full distance without such annoying things as inclines shortening their effective mobility, well then ranger and warrior just move more in less time.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

    It's unambiguously the fastest, even without vertical porting short cuts. The level of bias to even think thief is slow compared to warrior and ranger is to a degree of outright derangement.

    Its not, and if you played WvW at all you would know that. Thief can escape from everyone (because you can quickly port out of combat and mount up), but a thief will never catch a warrior or a ranger in a flat plane in WvW. Because when their dashes can actually go the full distance without such annoying things as inclines shortening their effective mobility, well then ranger and warrior just move more in less time.

    Even when you crunch the numbers on the movement skills it doesn't add up.

    Warrior movement from skills over one minute; 16,550
    Soulbeast Movement from skills over one minute: 12,600
    Daredevil movement from skills over one minute: 19,650

    I was able to do a variation Foefire lap test in 48 seconds with Daredevil+Shadow Arts+Shadow Step+Roll For Initiative. Warrior I got it down to 57 seconds, and that was taking Greatsword, Warrior's Sprint, Bulls Charge in addition to using plus using Sword Balanced Stance and Featherfoot Grace for even more movement speed. And the terrain doesn't especially favor thief. Soulbeast I got down to 55 seconds and that's with Sword+Warhorn+Greatsword+Deer Charge and enough nonmeta utilities to give 100% Swiftness uptime. If you aren't careful inclines will screw over your Infiltator's Arrows. And as long as your latency is fine slopes and inclines don't hamper dashing movement, it's actually pretty fair to do a lap around Foefire for testing purposes.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Naqam a.6521Naqam a.6521 Member ✭✭
    edited September 15, 2020

    willing to buy 4x (3+2) acounts and put them in a low pop WvWvW server in EU+ Murica for a race match .

    1 month

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Holy kitten are people actually trying to argue thief ISN'T the highest mobility in the game?

    No. Only that it isnt the highest horizontal mobility. Doesnt matter outside of WvW, but its a fact.

    It's unambiguously the fastest, even without vertical porting short cuts. The level of bias to even think thief is slow compared to warrior and ranger is to a degree of outright derangement.

    Its not, and if you played WvW at all you would know that. Thief can escape from everyone (because you can quickly port out of combat and mount up), but a thief will never catch a warrior or a ranger in a flat plane in WvW. Because when their dashes can actually go the full distance without such annoying things as inclines shortening their effective mobility, well then ranger and warrior just move more in less time.

    Even when you crunch the numbers on the movement skills it doesn't add up.

    Warrior movement from skills over one minute; 16,550
    Soulbeast Movement from skills over one minute: 12,600
    Daredevil movement from skills over one minute: 19,650

    Lets address a few things all at once here. First, movement from skills isnt as important as movement from skills over time. Second, there is no way Daredevil got anywhere close to 19650. Off of shortbow 5 alone, thats 2 at the start, and one every 6 seconds. So, 12. 10800 from that. Then you add 2 shadowsteps, which is 2400. And then ... youre running dry. Even if you add perfect about face roll for initiative, thats 1800 +1160. Even using both of those (which no one does anymore) youre 3000 short. On the other hand, you severely underestimated Rangers movement. Just from Swoop + Gazelles charge + bird swoop alone, Ranger gets 1200 every 12 seconds, and then 1200 every 9 seconds (you alternate the 2). In a minute, that amounts to 6 swoops and 7 pets charges. Thats 15600, not 12600. And if we maximise movement like you did with thief, we get to add monarchs leap and lightning Zephyr.

    But we dont need to. See more important than just the raw values, is how much time it took to travel that. And thats where Ranger pulls ahead. Infiltrators arrow takes 1 second to travel, for 900 units. Swoop and the pet dashes take 1 second to travel for 1200 range. Every time ranger moves 33% more during that bit. And well, I think you can see how they pull ahead now.

    I was able to do a variation Foefire lap test in 48 seconds with Daredevil+Shadow Arts+Shadow Step+Roll For Initiative. Warrior I got it down to 57 seconds, and that was taking Greatsword, Warrior's Sprint, Bulls Charge in addition to using plus using Sword Balanced Stance and Featherfoot Grace for even more movement speed. And the terrain doesn't especially favor thief. Soulbeast I got down to 55 seconds and that's with Sword+Warhorn+Greatsword+Deer Charge and enough nonmeta utilities to give 100% Swiftness uptime. If you aren't careful inclines will screw over your Infiltator's Arrows. And as long as your latency is fine slopes and inclines don't hamper dashing movement, it's actually pretty fair to do a lap around Foefire for testing purposes.

    Yeah turns out if you use a vertical map the class that has a vertical advantage has ... an advantage. No duh. The terrain heavily favours thief. Inclines of any kind reduce the effectiveness of a dash. They do not reduce the effectiveness of infiltrators arrow. We saw this beautifully illustrated in Trevors shoddy attempt, where multiple dashes moved half the distance or less thanks to an incline. What fair is a perfectly flat stretch the likes of which you only find in WvW. So try it out in WvW.