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Reaper damage?

Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

So what happened to that balance patch awhile back that reduced power damage coefficients?

Ya'll forget reaper? Or is it just the 501 traits buffing ferocity and raw damage output that negates the entire point of that patch?

Getting really tired of having 2+ reapers every match.

<1

Comments

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What's so problematic about Reapers, there's many ways to deal with them.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Tbh, it's better to have a reaper with high dmg against you, than having a tempest every kitten game, carrying the opposing team. That class is so frustrating to play against.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2020

    There are tons of builds with defense mechanics that reduce the reaper shroud auto attacks (where most of the damage comes from) to pathetic triple-digit numbers. You need 3 or 4 whole auto attack rotations to kill them, if (!) they don't dodge, evade, block, disengage...

    How long do you think facetanking reaper shroud should not be punished until you consider the spec balanced?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brimstone Jack.3462
    reaper is not a dueling class.
    as to the OP
    Reaper used to have busted damage pre patch, problem was that their survivability was lacking so they had problems landing the damage.
    After feb patch dmg went down, but their damage was so over the top that it didnt matter. but their survivability stayed the same so its easier to land the hits.

  • @Supreme.3164 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    There are tons of builds with defense mechanics that reduce the reaper shroud auto attacks (where most of the damage comes from) to pathetic triple-digit numbers. You need 3 or 4 whole auto attack rotations to kill them, if (!) they don't dodge, evade, block, disengage...

    How long do you think facetanking reaper shroud should not be punished until you consider the spec balanced?

    Nailed it. 99% of complaints about Necros in general boil down to "I can't facetank this DUELING CLASS and refuse to change my playstyle to deal with it, despite them having garbage mobility and almost no stunbreaks on many builds" or "condi classes are too stronk." Then they get livid when the actual answer to their problem is to get better at the game.

    And yet I seen necro players complaining about other professions/specs....why is this community all about :"my class is balanced yours is OP"?

    That's fair enough, though I typically don't do it. I'm a necro main and I don't need to drag any other class or spec to explain why. :) People also tend to forget that the meta is built around top-tier gameplay. Not silver and gold.

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    they forgot about grenades :D

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    Things shouldn't do damage. Make PvP like real life boxing. Noone dies. Nerf reaper!

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    There are tons of builds with defense mechanics that reduce the reaper shroud auto attacks (where most of the damage comes from) to pathetic triple-digit numbers. You need 3 or 4 whole auto attack rotations to kill them, if (!) they don't dodge, evade, block, disengage...

    How long do you think facetanking reaper shroud should not be punished until you consider the spec balanced?

    Nailed it. 99% of complaints about Necros in general boil down to "I can't facetank this DUELING CLASS and refuse to change my playstyle to deal with it, despite them having garbage mobility and almost no stunbreaks on many builds" or "condi classes are too stronk." Then they get livid when the actual answer to their problem is to get better at the game.

    Reaper and Necro in general have decent mobility nowadays. While they don't have thief movement ability, they have multiple shadowsteps/ports that function in getting them in and out of fights. So that isn't a valid reason for reaper to be as dominating as it currently is. A button mash class that is taking full advantage of spin 2 win at the moment.

  • @darren.1064 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    There are tons of builds with defense mechanics that reduce the reaper shroud auto attacks (where most of the damage comes from) to pathetic triple-digit numbers. You need 3 or 4 whole auto attack rotations to kill them, if (!) they don't dodge, evade, block, disengage...

    How long do you think facetanking reaper shroud should not be punished until you consider the spec balanced?

    Nailed it. 99% of complaints about Necros in general boil down to "I can't facetank this DUELING CLASS and refuse to change my playstyle to deal with it, despite them having garbage mobility and almost no stunbreaks on many builds" or "condi classes are too stronk." Then they get livid when the actual answer to their problem is to get better at the game.

    Reaper and Necro in general have decent mobility nowadays. While they don't have thief movement ability, they have multiple shadowsteps/ports that function in getting them in and out of fights. So that isn't a valid reason for reaper to be as dominating as it currently is. A button mash class that is taking full advantage of spin 2 win at the moment.

    Again, that's only really valid at low tiers. They don't balance around low tiers for very obvious reasons.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Brimstone Jack.3462
    reaper is not a dueling class.
    as to the OP
    Reaper used to have busted damage pre patch, problem was that their survivability was lacking so they had problems landing the damage.
    After feb patch dmg went down, but their damage was so over the top that it didnt matter. but their survivability stayed the same so its easier to land the hits.

    Reaper is a duelist it can 1v1 like thief mate

    It can duel Condi thief cause it has dipped into a whole kitten traitline for sustain and cleansing for kitten teamfights and thief can always kitten leave and not die, it can't however duel any power thief build.
    The current meta build reaper damage is mediocre, 6k death spiral man the bread and butter spin to win skill, the basic attack does 1k 1.5k 2.5k on heavy armor.
    You can run the full damage build, but like all other full damage builds it ends up sucking dirt and you have to be pealed off the ground. Lich 1 1 1 is busted and it would be better if the damage was spread in all its skills(and also them not sucking functionally will be good too) but meh 150 second cd that can be countered by projectile hate.
    Also for some reason everyone is running dumb bunkarish builds and don't know how to do damage, all i see is people waiting to be carried.
    For example how bad the majority of players are, i get top damage and kills on a druid.

  • Necro is power crept that’s what happened. Ever person on the forum knew it was gonna happen and any knowledgeable necro main was hopefully not surprised at the rerise of reaper

  • @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
    They don't balance around low tiers for very obvious reasons.

    Out of curiosity, what percentage of players do they balance the game around? The top 25%? Is it higher or lower? In theory you should have fewer great players than average or low. So things are probably "balanced" for the minority of players. Honestly, that is fine for ranked play.

    However, things should be somewhat balanced around the majority for unranked. Unfortunately, this would require to much effort. But would it be reasonable to add modifiers to unranked that helps level the playing field in regards to damage received and crowd control duration. Basically slow the pace down slightly in order for people to have a chance at learning with the understanding that the game is harder in ranked. Getting chain crit for 3k-6k to die in the span of seconds isn't encouraging to new/learning players. Adding some training wheels might help boost the participation/retention of those players. (if these type of modifiers already exist for unranked, then they are poorly tuned)

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    There are tons of builds with defense mechanics that reduce the reaper shroud auto attacks (where most of the damage comes from) to pathetic triple-digit numbers. You need 3 or 4 whole auto attack rotations to kill them, if (!) they don't dodge, evade, block, disengage...

    How long do you think facetanking reaper shroud should not be punished until you consider the spec balanced?

    Nailed it. 99% of complaints about Necros in general boil down to "I can't facetank this DUELING CLASS and refuse to change my playstyle to deal with it, despite them having garbage mobility and almost no stunbreaks on many builds" or "condi classes are too stronk." Then they get livid when the actual answer to their problem is to get better at the game.

    Reaper and Necro in general have decent mobility nowadays. While they don't have thief movement ability, they have multiple shadowsteps/ports that function in getting them in and out of fights. So that isn't a valid reason for reaper to be as dominating as it currently is. A button mash class that is taking full advantage of spin 2 win at the moment.

    They also have swiftness on shroud, which with speed runes gives 66% movement speed, spectral grasp to pull people in, an ever increasing blind field, poison for some reason on shroud 4 (which seems like it should require traiting for and specifically going condi but for some reason they just want to add conditions to every ability in this game even for power builds), protection, stability, regen. I don't even know what traits these reapers are running but popping into shroud at the slightest pressure and gaining stability, swiftness, protection, regen, AND quickness pretty much negates any counterplay they used to have. Unless they're getting focused by multiple people or going up against something with a cc heavy build. Add that to movement-impairing effects being removed means no cripple or immob is going to slow them down and they'll just consume conditions after exiting shroud to gain life force to rinse and repeat.

    I just think the damage needs to be toned down. They already have multiple self-sustain boons, an extra health bar, aoe fear, a blinding well, poison stacks to negate healing, quickness on auto attack, insane ferocity boosts, higher crit chance in shroud, and multiple damage modifiers baked into many of their traits.

    Not saying they're the worst offender or that they can't be countered, just that the don't have the trade-offs that they used to for the damage they put out.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2020

    The issue with reaper damage is perma quickness(How did they get past the feb patch?) and spinal shivers doing 9.1k dmg to light armor while being a ranged zero tell attack.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Brimstone Jack.3462
    reaper is not a dueling class.
    as to the OP
    Reaper used to have busted damage pre patch, problem was that their survivability was lacking so they had problems landing the damage.
    After feb patch dmg went down, but their damage was so over the top that it didnt matter. but their survivability stayed the same so its easier to land the hits.

    Reapers damage is so high it can 1v1 more duelists off node, actually. It's the same as holosmith(which it hard counters 1v1).

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Brimstone Jack.3462
    reaper is not a dueling class.
    as to the OP
    Reaper used to have busted damage pre patch, problem was that their survivability was lacking so they had problems landing the damage.
    After feb patch dmg went down, but their damage was so over the top that it didnt matter. but their survivability stayed the same so its easier to land the hits.

    Reapers damage is so high it can 1v1 most duelists off node, actually.

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    everyone is running dumb bunkarish builds and don't know how to do damage, all i see is people waiting to be carried.
    For example how bad the majority of players are, i get top damage and kills on a druid.

    Because you need zero mechanical skill, zero map awareness, and zero knowledge of the game mode to get gold3 on a bunker build. Since there isn't enough people playing, as far as the matchmaker is concerned gold3 is the same as top10.

  • Only thing reaper has going for it is quickness in shroud

  • Sifu.9745Sifu.9745 Member ✭✭
    edited September 16, 2020

    Funny, I've stopped playing my power Reaper in PvP because of how poor this class is in terms of survivability, low dmg and how easily it could be kited. I enjoy condi Scourge atm. At least i can do some dmg + team support and Survivability is better.
    When i see a GS reaper i just laugh. Try to hit some non AFK player with your Greatsword lol. You go Reaper Shroud? Np, i just run away from you or invisibility on my Thief and Mesmer.
    Not sure why professions with the highest health pools in the game such as Warrior and Necromancer are performing so poorly in PvP, while professions with lowest health pools: thief, ele, guardian are unstoppable.

  • SLOTH.5231SLOTH.5231 Member ✭✭✭

    Anyone complaining about reaper clearly has a L2P issue and hasn’t played reaper. Play a reaper and you’ll understand.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jasonbdj.4021 said:
    Reaper -

    • Can easily be CC'd.
    • Can not facetank same as a core nerco.
    • Has no evades.
    • Slow.
    • Not so great at range.

    "can easily be CC'ed" -> has 3 utilities to remove CC, shroud and lich form grant stability.
    "can not facetank same as core necro" -> mostly wrong, reaper shroud prevents damage same as core shroud, it just decays faster.
    "has no evades" -> true other then then 2 basic ones everyone has.
    "slow" -> wrong, along with spectral walk, worm port, reaper dash and perma swiftness with potential for rune of speed reaper is not slow at all.
    "not so great at range" -> lich is 1200 range aoe denial, staff skills have over 1300 actual range, actually all reaper skills other then shroud are at least medium to long range, then can fight people at range, but they cant make use of reaper shroud unless they get in range.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Jasonbdj.4021 said:
    Reaper -

    • Can easily be CC'd.
    • Can not facetank same as a core nerco.
    • Has no evades.
    • Slow.
    • Not so great at range.

    "can easily be CC'ed" -> has 3 utilities to remove CC, shroud and lich form grant stability.
    "can not facetank same as core necro" -> mostly wrong, reaper shroud prevents damage same as core shroud, it just decays faster.
    "has no evades" -> true other then then 2 basic ones everyone has.
    "slow" -> wrong, along with spectral walk, worm port, reaper dash and perma swiftness with potential for rune of speed reaper is not slow at all.
    "not so great at range" -> lich is 1200 range aoe denial, staff skills have over 1300 actual range, actually all reaper skills other then shroud are at least medium to long range, then can fight people at range, but they cant make use of reaper shroud unless they get in range.

    So power reaper is too strong because it has staff and lich. These are two things that actually weaken it against a competent encounter.

    Staff has one long cooldown skill (staff4) that deals 3k damage and transfers conditions, the rest is a joke on a power build and simply does nothing - no one needs to dodge staff 1, 2, 3 and 5. Lich has a 150s cooldown. Stating that this skill would have any significant impact in a 8 to 10 minute match is ridiculous - not to mention the skill has counters and does not necessary change the outcome of a fight where it is used at all.

    I really don't know what's going wrong in US, but since I've seen that minion master scourge and people were telling me this could be played in plat1, I am asking myself whether US requires a completely different balancing approach... sth. like balancing for casuals.

  • reap still has perma quickness?
    l-e-l

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SLOTH.5231 said:
    Anyone complaining about reaper clearly has a L2P issue and hasn’t played reaper. Play a reaper and you’ll understand.

    I understand that every game has 40-50% necros.

  • Jasonbdj.4021Jasonbdj.4021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Jasonbdj.4021 said:
    Reaper -

    • Can easily be CC'd.
    • Can not facetank same as a core nerco.
    • Has no evades.
    • Slow.
    • Not so great at range.

    "can easily be CC'ed" -> has 3 utilities to remove CC, shroud and lich form grant stability.
    "can not facetank same as core necro" -> mostly wrong, reaper shroud prevents damage same as core shroud, it just decays faster.
    "has no evades" -> true other then then 2 basic ones everyone has.
    "slow" -> wrong, along with spectral walk, worm port, reaper dash and perma swiftness with potential for rune of speed reaper is not slow at all.
    "not so great at range" -> lich is 1200 range aoe denial, staff skills have over 1300 actual range, actually all reaper skills other then shroud are at least medium to long range, then can fight people at range, but they cant make use of reaper shroud unless they get in range.

    "can easily be CC'ed" -> has 3 utilities to remove CC, shroud and lich form grant stability.

    Lich is op I agree however reaper hardly have any stability like most meta. Try playing reaper, high chances being stun locked.

    "can not facetank same as core necro" -> mostly wrong, reaper shroud prevents damage same as core shroud, it just decays faster.

    Yes but reaper do not use the same stats as core otherwise it will just tickle and slowly die, Save your cc break for shroud and run/range/dodge away until it decays.

    "has no evades" -> true other then then 2 basic ones everyone has.
    Others usually have extras too and fart out boons and heals.

    "slow" -> wrong, along with spectral walk, worm port, reaper dash and perma swiftness with potential for rune of speed reaper is not slow at all.

    Spectral walk, wurm port- just don't chase and switch target. Many builds fart out swiftness anyways, reaper dash is the only skill to help get close to target...other builds have teleports with a bang or stacks of burns.

    > "not so great at range" -> lich is 1200 range aoe denial, staff skills have over 1300 actual range, actually all reaper skills other then shroud are at least medium to long range, then can fight people at range, but they cant make use of reaper shroud unless they get in range.

    Lich is dumb and op, I am annoyed with anet removing the support function on wells while dumb and easy skills still exist. Staff isn't great and usually you can active them without being harm by dodging through them in current meta. Other meta do way more damage in AOEs then nerco staff. Soul Spiral can be easily dodge away (stun break Executioner's Scythe could be needed), usually shroud will decay fast enough for them not to use it for the second time.

    Lich needs a hammer overall

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    @KrHome.1920
    staff has good, AOE, easy to land damage.
    with HARD cc, Soft CC, utility in poison and cleanse.
    It has no proper animations and it generates lots of easy shroud. Its also so kitten easy to land hits with staff even toddler can do it.
    its 1300+ range aoe wapon that can hit through terrain.

    If you get CC chained as reaper, its l2p issue. you have 2 sources of stab and 3 ways to remove CC.
    If you cant make value out of staff its l2p issue.

  • SLOTH.5231SLOTH.5231 Member ✭✭✭

    Again for those calling for nerfs it’s a LEARN TO PLAY ISSUE.

  • Reapers are hella annoying when you're not careful and get chilled. Not overpowered though, at least in my opinion. They are rather easy to kill because most people don't master it, they just play it because it's kinda easy.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @KrHome.1920
    staff has good, AOE, easy to land damage.
    with HARD cc, Soft CC, utility in poison and cleanse.
    It has no proper animations and it generates lots of easy shroud. Its also so kitten easy to land hits with staff even toddler can do it.
    its 1300+ range aoe wapon that can hit through terrain.

    If you get CC chained as reaper, its l2p issue. you have 2 sources of stab and 3 ways to remove CC.
    If you cant make value out of staff its l2p issue.

    Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    Reapers are hella annoying when you're not careful and get chilled. Not overpowered though, at least in my opinion. They are rather easy to kill because most people don't master it, they just play it because it's kinda easy.

    so your argument for reaper not being OP is that its so easy to play that nobody learns to play it properly and thus make mistakes that can be punishes ?

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    There are tons of builds with defense mechanics that reduce the reaper shroud auto attacks (where most of the damage comes from) to pathetic triple-digit numbers. You need 3 or 4 whole auto attack rotations to kill them, if (!) they don't dodge, evade, block, disengage...

    How long do you think facetanking reaper shroud should not be punished until you consider the spec balanced?

    Nailed it. 99% of complaints about Necros in general boil down to "I can't facetank this DUELING CLASS and refuse to change my playstyle to deal with it, despite them having garbage mobility and almost no stunbreaks on many builds" or "condi classes are too stronk." Then they get livid when the actual answer to their problem is to get better at the game.

    And yet I seen necro players complaining about other professions/specs....why is this community all about :"my class is balanced yours is OP"?

    Because most of the community is simply biased in favor of their own profession, and/or they hear top players giving their opinion and take it as absolute law.
    tldr it's full of sheeple.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 add in stupid number of CC to it too.
    2 chills on staff
    1 chill on focus.
    2 chills on shroud
    1 chill on lich
    6 sources off chill, some of them last 5s some of them are pulsing.
    Add in stun and 3 fears and you have CC machine.
    BTW spinal shivers should not get chill applied on target before dmg, that way its dmg would be slightly lower.
    If you wanna get chill damage bonus then first apply chill, its stupid that this skill applies chill before the damage -.-

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Shiyo.3578 add in stupid number of CC to it too.
    2 chills on staff
    1 chill on focus.
    2 chills on shroud
    1 chill on lich
    6 sources off chill, some of them last 5s some of them are pulsing.
    Add in stun and 3 fears and you have CC machine.
    BTW spinal shivers should not get chill applied on target before dmg, that way its dmg would be slightly lower.
    If you wanna get chill damage bonus then first apply chill, its stupid that this skill applies chill before the damage -.-

    I didn't know spinal shivers applied the chill before the damage. I agree, that's kinda stupid.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    Reapers are hella annoying when you're not careful and get chilled. Not overpowered though, at least in my opinion. They are rather easy to kill because most people don't master it, they just play it because it's kinda easy.

    so your argument for reaper not being OP is that its so easy to play that nobody learns to play it properly and thus make mistakes that can be punishes ?

    No, my argument for reaper not being OP is that it's just not OP because it's not hard to kill and read his actions.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @suialthor.7164 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
    They don't balance around low tiers for very obvious reasons.

    Out of curiosity, what percentage of players do they balance the game around? The top 25%? Is it higher or lower? In theory you should have fewer great players than average or low. So things are probably "balanced" for the minority of players. Honestly, that is fine for ranked play.

    No they balance based on the sPvP subforum so it's below that. I'd say 0.001% of the player base is closer to the answer than top 25%.

  • Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

    Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    @Sifu.9745 said:
    Funny, I've stopped playing my power Reaper in PvP because of how poor this class is in terms of survivability, low dmg and how easily it could be kited. I enjoy condi Scourge atm. At least i can do some dmg + team support and Survivability is better.
    When i see a GS reaper i just laugh. Try to hit some non AFK player with your Greatsword lol. You go Reaper Shroud? Np, i just run away from you or invisibility on my Thief and Mesmer.
    Not sure why professions with the highest health pools in the game such as Warrior and Necromancer are performing so poorly in PvP, while professions with lowest health pools: thief, ele, guardian are unstoppable.

    Exactly the same for me. I always want (and often get) reaper on opponent team as condi/support scourge. Reaper is the best target where all my damage counts. Just never stop moving and just avoid its most obvious damage phases. Reaper is really no issue compared to some other specs played at the moment.

  • Azreell.1568Azreell.1568 Member ✭✭✭

    Is there anything this player base will not complain about?

    I mean post after post of hey I lost to X class plz nerf.

    Then people wonder why we keep losing more and more players.

    Of all things , Reaper? I don't even play the class and realize it's pretty well balanced and has tons of hard counter play.

    My god people....................

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭

    reaper's problem is lich...

    and walk+wurm is kinda good.

    and spec walk away, pre cast lich and walk back is basically instant lich pop out of no where

    warrior has been unplayable in pvp
    for 6 months till now

    good job balance team

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    @Sifu.9745 said:

    Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

    Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

    you sure you talking about the same skill?
    spinal shiver
    Damage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)?
    over 2.6 coof, and it applies chill before damage to proc chilled 10% damage bonus.
    it hits harder then barrage.
    heck, I keep getting hit for 4-5k by the thing and I play mesmer so I dont even have boons
    EDIT
    if you wanna test shiver damage go to golem, hit it with shiver.
    dmg you deal, multiply by 5.2 and here you go. add in the fact that golems have more toughness

  • Azreell.1568Azreell.1568 Member ✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:
    reaper's problem is lich...

    and walk+wurm is kinda good.

    and spec walk away, pre cast lich and walk back is basically instant lich pop out of no where

    Unless you are partially blind and that huge glowing green trail that spectral walk leaves when used is not a good enough tell?

    Wow.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    @felix.2386 said:
    and spec walk away, pre cast lich and walk back is basically instant lich pop out of no where

    That ridiculous complaint did come out of nowhere too.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sifu.9745 said:

    Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

    Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

    you sure you talking about the same skill?
    spinal shiver
    Damage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)?
    over 2.6 coof

    The coeff doesn't mean what you think it does if you completely ignore weapon power.

    It could use a damage shave but its meant to, and always will be, a strong single target ability that punishes boons.

    That the skill is being complained about just shows how much boon creep there has been since the chances of hitting the upper bracket if this skills damage has become almost 100% over the years.

    You may think "I don't have any boons" but based on the current game state you almost always have at have at least 2 from doing absolutely nothing but existing.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sifu.9745 said:

    Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

    Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

    you sure you talking about the same skill?
    spinal shiver
    Damage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)?
    over 2.6 coof

    The coeff doesn't mean what you think it does if you completely ignore weapon power.

    It could use a damage shave but its meant to, and always will be, a strong single target ability that punishes boons.

    That the skill is being complained about just shows how much boon creep there has been since the chances of hitting the upper bracket if this skills damage has become almost 100% over the years.

    You may think "I don't have any boons" but based on the current game state you almost always have at have at least 2 from doing absolutely nothing but existing.

    meta mesmer has access to only 1 boon.
    vigor and it doesnt even have 50% uptime.
    So yes, If I fight reaper in 1v1 and he crits me with it for 5k there is a problem, since AT BEST I can have 2 boons. 1 is vigor after shattering ( at best 20% uptime ) and another is a stolen boon with sigil of absorption.

    And honestly entire concept of punishing boons is kitten kitten. Almost nothing punishes boons in this game, most boonrips are even less effective against people that have lots of boons, after all holo with 8 boons doesnt give a kitten when he loses 3, but warrior that has 3 boons is going to have problems when he loses them all.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sifu.9745 said:

    Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

    Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

    Being light armor, I've seen it numerous times.

  • @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sifu.9745 said:

    Don't forget: Spinal shivers 1200 yard range 3 boon removal chill that does 9.1k damage.

    Where did you get these numbers from? My best Spinal Shivers crit was around 4k with tons of Might and other buffs and 3 boons on opponent. On average is more likely 2k - 3 k crits.

    you sure you talking about the same skill?
    spinal shiver
    Damage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)?
    over 2.6 coof

    The coeff doesn't mean what you think it does if you completely ignore weapon power.

    It could use a damage shave but its meant to, and always will be, a strong single target ability that punishes boons.

    That the skill is being complained about just shows how much boon creep there has been since the chances of hitting the upper bracket if this skills damage has become almost 100% over the years.

    You may think "I don't have any boons" but based on the current game state you almost always have at have at least 2 from doing absolutely nothing but existing.

    meta mesmer has access to only 1 boon.
    vigor and it doesnt even have 50% uptime.
    So yes, If I fight reaper in 1v1 and he crits me with it for 5k there is a problem, since AT BEST I can have 2 boons. 1 is vigor after shattering ( at best 20% uptime ) and another is a stolen boon with sigil of absorption.

    And honestly entire concept of punishing boons is kitten kitten. Almost nothing punishes boons in this game, most boonrips are even less effective against people that have lots of boons, after all holo with 8 boons doesnt give a kitten when he loses 3, but warrior that has 3 boons is going to have problems when he loses them all.

    I've done the math in another thread. It is impossible for the skill to crit for 5k in pvp when 1 boon is removed. Denying that is really pointless. You are argumenting based on your imagination but not on facts.

    And I use this skill each day for years now. In pvp on a berserker or marauder build you can expect between 500 (no boon, no crit) and 6000 (3 boons including protection removed, critical hit, a bit of self might, a bit of vuln. on the target) damage from it. Everything above is extremely rare and you can not realistically build for it.

    The hyperbole is huge in this forum. In the lich threads people said it deals 7+k damage "with ease". The reality is that this is the absolute max for a pve build (zerk amulet, all damage modifiers, no defense) on a light armor target.

    Don’t mind explaining fact to these people, they argue without using their brains.
    Spinal shiver is strong but not as op as other skills like power rev ones or renegade shiro sevenshots.
    You crit 6k a few times and on buffed target.
    More than 6k means that ur build is kitten and you are playing without armor.
    It’s funny how no one complains about guards spamming ultra damage kitten and being easy asf to play or shiro renegade not being mentioned. But hey let’s tone down the most counterable class in the game cause it killed me gne gne.