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So, the new fractal: Sunqua Peak [Feedback]

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  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    The water tornadoes projectile hits harder than the other elements.

    That's because that phase doesn't have projectiles, but is actually reflecting your projectiles back at you - if you are talking about the phase where the boss is in the center surrounded by a water tornado.

    In retrospective I think you just mean the (technically not) projectiles moving around the arena, but for those I think it's intended that each phase hits increasingly harder.

    Some projectiles/range attack works during that Tornado phase.
    But it wasn't that was I referring to, its those telegraph attacks (forgot what its called, similar to those purple lights in CM but before that its in the form of elements). Water seems to hit harder than the rest (6.8k ish).
    Can't wait for Sugar Rush instability for Sunqua :lol:.

  • Teapot soloed the 100 cm with danse with the demons !

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    50-50 with the scenery. It can be beautiful, but personally felt the concept/theme is somewhat different. Floating terrain, gloomy, shadings, cramped pathing and surroundings makes it feel edgy/uncomfortable.

    Gotta blame fractals as a concept for this one I think, but I agree that floating stuff kinda takes me out of it.

    The gaunlet and mini bosses are pretty straight forward. Never liked the idea of recycling mob's model design (same for LS4 recycling mob's model, not expansion level content imo if its recolored/recycled models).

    Recycling creatures is a fantastic way to make some new content. Stuff like the fire stalkers are so rare and underutilized, it's a crime if they weren't used. By all means, if they would do this more regularly it would certainly speed up the creation process and everybody should be on board with that.

    I rather choose death.

  • The final scene between Ai and Lan should not have been gated behind the CM.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    finally done the cm .. I love it thanks I really enjoyed it.. :)
    its not easy for those who doesn't play cm and its not hard with a full good team.
    now I need to do the no death achievement :P

    Death is Energy [DIE] & Bongbong [BB] in FoW server
    Leg champ., champ. magus, champ. phantom & champ. hunter
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, DoD, DwD.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @edrake.6150 said:
    Jumping puzzles do not belong in raids, fractals or strike missions. I know this fractal isn't a jumping puzzle per-se but the hopping up and down using the jump action skill gave me motion sickness. I will not play this fractal again.

    The rewards are lazy reskins (obligatory legendaries and gemstore skins look better comment.) gated behind Master tier fractals. I have no issue with the gating but I have to wonder why any difficulty scales under T4 exist if all the new rewards are always going to be gated behind T4 achieves. I doubt everyone wants to play T4 fractals. The new weapons should have also had a substantial money cost attached to them. This game is in dire need of money sinks. Please add some.

    The new abyssal infusion is garbage. Please stop adding visual cancer to to the game.

    The fractal felt far too long. It felt like we were moving through a lot of space with nothing in it.

    I don't know what the trash mobs were supposed to teach because they died too fast.

    I had a hard time seeing the orange circles on red platforms. (Can't believe this is still a thing in 2020!)

    Far too much visual clutter during the final boss.

    it isn't jumping puzzle. you just need to work out how it works, you get the buff to bounce up. its not even hard. you can skip that part by /gg and let party member run ahead and res up at check point. people don't even give it a chance for new mechanics. this is one of the best map in fractal. solid ocean was my fav, but now.. sunqua is my fav. :)

    Death is Energy [DIE] & Bongbong [BB] in FoW server
    Leg champ., champ. magus, champ. phantom & champ. hunter
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, DoD, DwD.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raizel Silverius.6430 said:
    Anyone noticed that the instab for 100 did not change for the last 3 days (or 2 if you don't count the release as 1 day)?

    are you waiting for it to change? xD its ok atm i think imagine no stack and others that spawn tentacle and rabbits

    Death is Energy [DIE] & Bongbong [BB] in FoW server
    Leg champ., champ. magus, champ. phantom & champ. hunter
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, DoD, DwD.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    Few comments about the frac outside the obvious boss fight(s) and scenery:

    • done t4 and t3 version already, but did t1 version today and felt the trash mobs have way too much hp for t1 fractals
    • water trash mobs should just kinda die when you break bar, what is it even for
    • could probably cull the number of water trash mobs in lower tiers
    • trash mobs should just despawn when you hit checkpoint (fire ones don’t matter cuz you have to kill them anyway)
    • there is trash too close to the second mistlock, why even put either of them there
    • maybe also add in a special action key or something so you can just port to checkpoint, I can see a lot of /gg’s happening on this frac because no one wants to waste time clearing trash and doing entire jp’s. Or maybe the next time you fall off you just get ported straight to checkpoint already exists
    • do the trash mobs even drop any loot?
    • some of the stairs are annoying because you can’t just walk up some of them for some reason (you hit an obstruction which you have to jump over... with an absolutely unnecessary charged jump)
    • there’s a section in the water jp part where you have to jump onto a cliff face; imo the path should all be flat ground or stairs and shouldn’t force the player to smash their jump key just to get up.

    Currently meme’ing on core mesmer for PvE content.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    BTW guys... today its rec.. a lot of people are trying to do them... if you are experienced players, do go and join and help them out.. so they have a bit of good fun too :)

    Death is Energy [DIE] & Bongbong [BB] in FoW server
    Leg champ., champ. magus, champ. phantom & champ. hunter
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, DoD, DwD.

  • I've never ben a fan of fractals. Nothing in this one has changed my mind. Those that like it, have fun.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @arielqueen.6587 said:
    disappointed. they're still doing floor mark combat.

    I, too, would prefer untelegraphed one shots or auto attacks that just destroy you./s

    There are ways to telegraph attacks that doesn't include drawing red circles on the ground. You can add tells to a boss - from how they attack, to visual clues like the size of their weapon or the appearance of the boss in question.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @arielqueen.6587 said:
    disappointed. they're still doing floor mark combat.

    I, too, would prefer untelegraphed one shots or auto attacks that just destroy you./s

    There are ways to telegraph attacks that doesn't include drawing red circles on the ground. You can add tells to a boss - from how they attack, to visual clues like the size of their weapon or the appearance of the boss in question.

    And then you still need indicator of where the attack lands, so people actually know which areas are safe.
    You can't expect everyone to put in the effort to memorize all of the enemies' movement patterns, especially with all the visual clutter everywhere.

  • I've been doing 100cm for a few days now, and there are 3 things i dislike:

    1.Is this a fractal or a raid? By this i mean i don't understand why we can't precast next to instabilities, why do we have this slow raid-like mobilty and why Breakbars are that overloaded (Are we 10 players cc-ing? No... we are 5 players smacking metal rods and throwing rocks).
    2.Aoe overload (especially during 2nd phase).
    3.Fire and water split phases need a rework, one is too messy the other is just plain boring.

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I love this fractal so much, it is now my 2nd favourite right after Nightmare. Especially the CM is awesome. Very atmospheric and emotional.

  • So lets go through it.

    I like the start of the fractal, the little jp and the air boss. If the goal is to teach the boss mechanic i would require the group to succesfully finish the jump part of the air elemental. If your group fails you take some damage and get another try with more time to do it. If that fails you again take damage and get a try with even more time and so on. Otherwise the elemental has nice attacks, like a big aoe, orbs that knock you back, ligthning fields that follow you. It is a fun fight.

    The way to the water"boss" is bad. If expected you need to kill the enraged elementals to be able to talk to the frigthened elementals. Instead you can just skip the enemies, interact with the npc's and continue running. It is a little strange, especially because there is a mechanic that requires you to kill the fire elementals. The waterfalls animation that pushes you over the cliff and the one that does nothing are in my opinion way to similar.

    The boss-stone is one of the most boring fights in the fractal. I guess it is there to teach you the water orb mechanic, but the orb doesnt seem to spawn below t4. So why does this fight exist? It is like hitting a test-golem.

    The way to the fire boss is fine, except you can jump over the second wall. Maybe over the others too. There are so many invisible walls in the fractal. There should be a wall too, if the elementals are still alive.

    Fire boss should teach you the meteors, but it does nothing except that. Even then it is just waiting for the meteors to fall and until the boss invuln phase ends. Thats nice the first time you do the fractal, because it sets the focus on the meteors, but every time afterwards it is a waiting game. I would remove the invulnerability from the boss while the meteors fall and give it another of the end-boss attacks, like fire balls that move in from the edge of the plattform.

    The way to the final boss is another waiting game. Why do we need to wait until the dialouge finishs until the gate opens, why do we need to wait for the next dialouge for the stone plattforms to appear. Cant we listen to the dialouge while walking up to the final boss?

    The air phase of the final boss is in my opinion the most interesting one, maybe because i also liked the air elemental the most. Why does she disappear at the start of the second phase, while the meteors fall? This is another waiting game, where you have nothing to do, but walk a bit around and jump sometimes. Can more meteors fall or the boss continue with some attacks during this phase?
    Water phase is definitly the most boring one. You either wait the time while she is in the tornado, cycling who has the water orb debuff, while stacking on a point or you melee her inside the tornado and heal against its damage. Most attacks dont hit inside the tornado, so it seems to be a safer place than outside. I guess it is intended not to stand inside the tornado, but there is nothing to do except waiting outside. It seems like the desgin goal for this fractal was to make the player wait as much as possible. If i compare it with other fights there is always something to do if a boss goes invulnerable/unattackable. Svanir shaman summons an ice golem and doesnt reapper until you killed it. Grawl shaman gets a shield that you can break and summons lava elementals. Arkk has towers you need to destroy. Ensolyss has circles you need to cap. Mama has the knights to be killed. In other fratcals there are mechanics you actively need to do to continue the fight. In the new fractal all you can do is wait for the water tornado to end. I will enjoy this phase much more if there is a change in the spirit of the mentioned ones. Like a shield on the boss that we break by crossing the blue tether of the water orb through her. The outer water wall animation of the arena blocks your view if you are max zoomed out. I like the animation, but not directly in front of my view.

    CM is fun, but there are a few things i would like to mention. The attack from failing the jump orb phase can be dodged. For a cm i feel it would be fitting if you cant dodge/block the attack if you fail the jump phase. Failing a major mechanic should have consequences. The impact damage of the meteors seems to be larger than the inner circle indicates. CC seems to be required too frequent to justify the large breakbar. I would argue for either a large breakbar, but a longer time between them or a smaller breakbar, but keep the current intervall.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cerioth.7062 said:
    I love this fractal so much, it is now my 2nd favourite right after Nightmare. Especially the CM is awesome. Very atmospheric and emotional.

    I really like it too.. i done cm a few times now, I am not sure if I will be able to get dwd as I havent got them yet.. I should have done it on the first day. hope at later stage people will come help with us get dwd. .. on my first cm kill no one wipe actually but the instance was not reset. :skull:

    Death is Energy [DIE] & Bongbong [BB] in FoW server
    Leg champ., champ. magus, champ. phantom & champ. hunter
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, DoD, DwD.

  • Xca.9721Xca.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:

    @Cerioth.7062 said:
    I love this fractal so much, it is now my 2nd favourite right after Nightmare. Especially the CM is awesome. Very atmospheric and emotional.

    I really like it too.. i done cm a few times now, I am not sure if I will be able to get dwd as I havent got them yet.. I should have done it on the first day. hope at later stage people will come help with us get dwd. .. on my first cm kill no one wipe actually but the instance was not reset. :skull:

    I think you will get it eventually when you do cms on a regular basis, I did it 3 times already in cms+t4 pug groups (we didn´t even go for dwd achievement).

  • The new fractal is so unfun, it killed my enjoyment of doing Fractals at all.

  • My first experience with this fractal was at T4, and it was a pretty smooth ride. The map itself and the mini bosses are pretty simple. I didn't get the jumping mechanic at first, and a few times the auto-jump spots bugged out and yeeted me against the cliff multiple times. We tried going for an achievement at the final boss, but gave up after the boss bugged out, and the lightning didn't go away. We had to reload the instance to fix it. After we passed on getting the achievement, the last boss fight was pretty simple. The fractal does a good job of teaching all the important mechanics along the way, and I had a very good team.

    My second experience was with CM. Again, a pretty smooth ride. We had a pretty strong team, most of which had never done this with CM before. As the final boss fell, our party leader announced: "-And now, phase 2!" and we all gulped.... "Phase 2? There is a phase 2?!". The shock on our faces was pretty funny. It took a few tries to learn the last phase, but I enjoyed it.

  • @Fueki.4753 said:
    And then you still need indicator of where the attack lands, so people actually know which areas are safe.
    You can't expect everyone to put in the effort to memorize all of the enemies' movement patterns, especially with all the visual clutter everywhere.

    There's no ground indicator in real fight. Such mechanics just make me bored. There're some Action MMOs that works well without ground indicator, like Phantasy Star Online 2. Screen clatters should be taken care by Anet.

  • I actually like Sunqua for several reasons. Mainly because the flow of the mechanical boss fight content encourages playing some very alternative types of team comps to optimize efficient clears, which in my opinion is what we need in the game.

    The only complaint I have is that during the big explosion attacks at the final boss where you're supposed to hide behind rocks to avoid it, I'll still get hit through the rock and I know I'm not lagging or desynched, I am behind the rock and right up near it. Not sure if I am misunderstanding something or if this is a bug.

  • I was playing as a Dragonhunter with another Guardian, a Berserker and a couple of Rangers. And I found final boss fight ridiculously overcomplicated.
    1st thing - dodge does not matter, you still get damaged, no matter how good you time your dodge rolls.
    2nd - your aegis and shield skills don't matter. Attacks strike you as if you have not used them at all.

    Our party was geared solid enough for previous T1 lvl 25 fractal, the Shattered Observatory. We had AR of 25+, all geared in Ex and Asc gear.
    After 4th wipe in a row we started to try really hard, but eventually, this was not worth our time spent on one fractal.

    Could be OK for hardcore T4 frequenters with all the Leggies and other epic stuff. Way of an overhead for T1 noobs to enjoy.

  • Mad Queen Malafide.7512Mad Queen Malafide.7512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2020

    So, as much as I enjoy this Fractal, I have some criticism that echoes some of what others have said before:

    -It is a pity the Fractal is so linear and the paths are so small. I wish there was more than one way up the cliff.
    -The scripted jump up the cliff, occasionally throws the player into the cliff instead.
    -I don't like the collision on some of the stairs. You should be able to run up the stairs and not collide with it.
    -The rock-boss is the most boring and absurd opponent in this game so far. It is also really lame.
    -Occasionally the explosion hits through the walls that you hide behind, as Trevor also mentioned. This happens with the tutorial boss and the final boss.
    -One of the messages that you need to collect for the achievement, involves some very janky platforming that results in a lot of button mashing. I hate that.
    -The river rapids should have a clear audio cue when they speed up. Most players don't get what is going on there.
    -The lightning phase at the final boss often bugs out if you fail the boss. This results in the phase never ending and requires reentering the instance.

    Some advise for players struggling with the final boss:

    Phase 1 (air):
    Make sure everyone brings some CC skills. Save the CC for when the boss goes to the middle, and CC her as soon as her deviantbar activates. This leaves her stunned for a while, and cancels her most dangerous attack. Save your dodges for attacks that matter, such as the lightning blasts that appear underneath your character, or the circles that appear as she returns to the middle. When circles appear underneath your character, spread out and make sure the circle doesn't overlap with that of other players. Dodge 1 second after it has filled up. For the lightning phase, it may help to agree with each other in which direction everyone goes, and to work clockwise from circle to circle. That way multiple players won't be running to the same cloud. Place markers on the minimap if needed.
    Beware of the moment right before the lightning phase. She will dive back to the middle and create a deadly vortex that kills players quite often. The projectiles she fires throughout the fight, can be dodged by running (no dodge roll required) and do very little damage, so you could face-tank them. Skills that help you chase after the boss are helpful, as she moves around a lot. Just don't stand in her path when she dives to a new location.

    Phase 2 (fire):
    Very similar to phase 1. Again, focus on CC'ing her when she's in the middle. No one should get hit by the explosion attack or the meteors, since they are so clearly telegraphed. Just jump over those shockwaves and seek cover behind a wall in time. Also be weary that some walls might break during this phase; don't stay behind a destroyed meteor! Use two dodge rolls to quickly get to a new wall if this happens. You should be saving your dodges for when you really really need them.

    Phase 3 (water):
    Stick together and be careful of the vortexes that she fires, which really hurt. Stay as much to the outside of the arena and avoid the middle. Only return to the middle when the vortex dissipates, but bail out before she creates a new one. There is no reason why any player should be dying due to the giant vortex in the center. Help downed players up quickly, so they don't get sucked into it. Share the burden of Tidal Bargain when prompted, which is why you stick together, and move away as a group from those blue orbs. This is by far the easiest phase of the three, since there's not a whole lot of attacks you need to avoid.

  • Something I would like to add is that the final boss seems to miss an attack that targets players. Everything the boss does are AoE patterns. The main part of the fight is moving in some direction. The title dancing with demons is definitely fitting. But it is weird, that the boss ignores what players are doing and where they are standing. You can rez players without any pressure from the boss. I would prefer if the boss targets a certain player similar to arkk with his pizza slice attack. One of the players gets locked and the AoE indicators move if the targeted player moves.