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No "kp" for CM fractals. Is that gonna increase toxicity?

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Comments

  • @Oldyoung.6109 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:
    KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

    It gives an estimate on someone’s potential skill with whatever awarded that particular KP.

    and it could always be bought spoofed or carried for.

    My god this excuse is tiresome. People can boost in any and all game modes. It becomes obvious on the first encounter if they are just one of the boosters and they are easily blocked and removed from the party. It takes about 10 seconds into a boss fight to understand how terrible a player may be.

    if it's so obvious why do you need kp?

    It's pretty yikes that I have to explain this to you, but okay. So, having killed a boss 20 times and being capable of proving it means you likely know your skill level and other people can gauge your skill level and experience with a fight, tempering their expectations to your impact to the group's overall performance. Saying you've killed a boss 20 times and not having a method to prove it leaves it up in the air if you're telling the truth or needing to fight he first boss and waste 1-2 minutes failing to kill, likely have an argument spurred on by the person who lied about their experience that wastes yet more time, dealing with them trolling the LFG posting as they're mad that they got removed for being dead weight, and generally causing headaches for everyone involved.

  • The problem with the old KP was people could fake it easily which resulted more then often in awful experience and people quickly leaving the group. From this perspektive nothing new . ATM you can ask for the old KP and the title but soon the KP will be too old to make sense. What you can ask is title + the new weapon skins or infusion but to be honest I don't want to carry much of them around.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.

    Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the content being discriminatory.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.

    Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the content being discriminatory.

    Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

  • Yellow Rainbow.6142Yellow Rainbow.6142 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.

    Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the content being discriminatory.

    Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

    well guild are not that affected by kp as most of them don't even use kp and rather evaluate their members on their previous run perf. which cannot happen in pug as there is most often no previous run. however a lot add kp req when posting lfg :)
    although making it harder for new player to get started may force them to go in a guild (if they don't give up on that content before)

  • @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Players being selective via proofs like these is an example of players "making their own group". You being upset and feeling excluded by such groups is an example of you refusing to make your own group. Makes sense, right?

  • Yellow Rainbow.6142Yellow Rainbow.6142 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Players being selective via proofs like these is an example of players "making their own group". You being upset and feeling excluded by such groups is an example of you refusing to make your own group. Makes sense, right?

    No, I have over 500 essence and stack of raid boss tokens. I just dont like to measure kitten. It is completely unnecessary and killing the said game mode. And, yes I make my own lfg and I do not kick people for under performing.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

    Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

    You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

    So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

    Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

    You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

    So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

    Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

    Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

    You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

    So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

    Then they can fix with limit of amouth of guldies per squad

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

    Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

    You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

    So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

    Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

    I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

    Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

    Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

  • @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.

    Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the content being discriminatory.

    Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

    The whole "discriminatory" comment is only relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

    Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

    You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

    So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

    Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

    I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

    Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

    Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

    Why did they move to discord or guild on raid though. KPS are still there.
    All i am saying is, all those high number of kps requirement only discourage new players and forces them to join guild or discord or worst not even try the content.
    People who can't handle 5 extra mins or 1 wipe should play with friends/guild just like people who can't clear.
    Lfg has been ridiculously venomous these days with high requirement and very specific needs.
    This must be changed and anet is just trying that I believe.

  • @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

    Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

    You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

    So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

    Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

    I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

    Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

    Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

    Why did they move to discord or guild on raid though. KPS are still there.
    All i am saying is, all those high number of kps requirement only discourage new players and forces them to join guild or discord or worst not even try the content.
    People who can't handle 5 extra mins or 1 wipe should play with friends/guild just like people who can't clear.
    Lfg has been ridiculously venomous these days with high requirement and very specific needs.
    This must be changed and anet is just trying that I believe.

    Can be fixed by adjusting game difficulty so kp would never be needed

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.

    Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the content being discriminatory.

    Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

    The whole "discriminatory" comment is only relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

    Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

    Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

    You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

    So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

    Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

    I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

    Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

    Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

    Why did they move to discord or guild on raid though. KPS are still there.

    Lack of developer support, which lead to less activity on the LFG, which in turn required more organization, which after dropping below a critical population made discord organization a lot easier. Hence now everyone who wants to raid has either moved to EU or is on Raid Academy on NA. The reason for why the population dropped is nearly irrelevant if your proposed solution does the same, which it does.

    Again, I fully agree that players should join guilds or discords or organize. I just fail to understand how ANY player who predominantly uses the LFG would celebrate this change in any way. It's as though having LESS players in any type of content is ever a good thing....

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    All i am saying is, all those high number of kps requirement only discourage new players and forces them to join guild or discord or worst not even try the content.
    People who can't handle 5 extra mins or 1 wipe should play with friends/guild just like people who can't clear.

    Well if the intent of the change was to remove high KP requirements from the LFG, that might succeed, depending on how well alternatives will take up the KP per-selecting. If the effort to organize grows beyond a certain amount, the net result won't be every one to be welcomed but rather alternatives be found, aka discords, guilds, statics, etc.

    So everyone ends up with less LFG posting about high performance groups. No one to be envious about those, since those groups will simply NOT run via the LFG. Doubtful that this is of a net benefit to the mode, except that it might make a few players feel better.

    The upside here: it is unlikely that T4 will get completely abandoned given their ease. Only that not as many CM groups form over the LFG.

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Lfg has been ridiculously venomous these days with high requirement and very specific needs.
    This must be changed and anet is just trying that I believe.

    Was to be expected. The one central flawed metric for giving players a try which even related to the content, and please note that meeting the required KP requirements only bought you a ticket of entry to groups, never a guarantee that you could stay, was removed. Unlike say strikes where even content unrelated KP was demanded, which made even less sense. Now players are trying desperately to find alternatives to group with similar skilled players. Obviously this will lead to increased toxicity.

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.

    Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the content being discriminatory.

    Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

    The whole "discriminatory" comment is only relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

    Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.

    Which to be fair COULD be a net benefit in the long run to the games health. Just not to the players who are not in guilds due to what ever reason.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.

    Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the content being discriminatory.

    Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

    The whole "discriminatory" comment is only relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

    Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.

    PUGs aren't going to be the only ones affected. Guild teams will be too when they are in the sad position of not having a full team ready at any given time. Although for Fractals this is less of an issue, because it's only 5-man content, but it can happen there too. Maybe you have only 4 online. How are these 4 online players gonna get a player up to their needs to fill that last spot? How is a team of 4 (or 8-9 in Raids) looking for someone with very specific abilities to fill their ranks, be called "discrimination"?
    This is more like some people putting the wants and the desires of some players above those of others. All players should be treated equal

    (and the content being "non discriminatory" wouldn't really help.

  • Yellow Rainbow.6142Yellow Rainbow.6142 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Cyninja.2954
    Game is coming out on steam soon.
    What would they think if only thing they see is high requirement and sellers ads.
    Anet definitely had to shuffle some stuff. And, this is what we ended up. Hopefully, it is right move.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    @Cyninja.2954
    Game is coming out on steam soon.
    What would they think if only thing they see is high requirement and sellers ads.
    Anet definitely had to shuffle some stuff. And, this is what we ended up. Hopefully, it is right move.

    True, on the upside, even with all the complaining, this latest development has at least once again shown that this game has a passionate player base, even if there is often disagreement on which course of action is in the games best interest.

    We have come some way from last years game shut down panic. :cold_sweat:

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    It’s seems Anet wants to remove the KP as they find it discriminatory as stated in the livestream today.

    Then they do not understand that KPs are not discriminatory by themselves - they are merely a byproduct of the content being discriminatory.

    Well, I think we always knew what Anet stance on end game content was, they want it done by guilds and not pugs...

    The whole "discriminatory" comment is only relevant in the context of PUGs. Static groups do not use LFG after all.

    Exactly, which might be why Anet is potentially crushing Pugs and forcing people to guilds, it’s what they wanted from the get go when raids were envisioned.

    That would however mean that the mentioned reasons behind removing KPs are just a smoke screen meant to hide the real intentions. It would also mean they intend to make the content more niche than it already is.
    I can believe in the former, but i'd be highly doubtful about the latter, especially after their experience with raids and how making a content too niche can easily kill it. Remember, there's absolutely no way moving the content to guild/static only is going to increase its popularity. For raids (content that already, according to devs, is not popular enough to justify further development) it would be a death blow. For fractals it wouldn't be anything good either, tbh.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:
    KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

    It gives an estimate on someone’s potential skill with whatever awarded that particular KP.

    and it could always be bought spoofed or carried for.

    My god this excuse is tiresome. People can boost in any and all game modes. It becomes obvious on the first encounter if they are just one of the boosters and they are easily blocked and removed from the party. It takes about 10 seconds into a boss fight to understand how terrible a player may be.

    if it's so obvious why do you need kp?

    It's pretty yikes that I have to explain this to you, but okay. So, having killed a boss 20 times and being capable of proving it means you likely know your skill level and other people can gauge your skill level and experience with a fight, tempering their expectations to your impact to the group's overall performance. Saying you've killed a boss 20 times and not having a method to prove it leaves it up in the air if you're telling the truth or needing to fight he first boss and waste 1-2 minutes failing to kill, likely have an argument spurred on by the person who lied about their experience that wastes yet more time, dealing with them trolling the LFG posting as they're mad that they got removed for being dead weight, and generally causing headaches for everyone involved.

    so people can be boosted for or fake kp but it's obvious they are actually bad but you need kp to tell they are actually good and not boosted.

    thanks for clearing that up.

    None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license.
    ~John Milton

  • @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Players being selective via proofs like these is an example of players "making their own group". You being upset and feeling excluded by such groups is an example of you refusing to make your own group. Makes sense, right?

    No, I have over 500 essence and stack of raid boss tokens. I just dont like to measure kitten. It is completely unnecessary and killing the said game mode. And, yes I make my own lfg and I do not kick people for under performing.

    Good for you? Does that change anything I said? Nope. Sure doesn't!

  • I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look. Another solution is the new combat tonic, again 42 cm clears.

  • @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look. Another solution is the new combat tonic, again 42 cm clears.

    No, you only need 14 days of CM dailies.

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • @Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look. Another solution is the new combat tonic, again 42 cm clears.

    No, you only need 14 days of CM dailies.

    14 days of clearing all 3 cms, still 42 total cm. It is like the old li requirements, someone might have 150 lis, but those 150 could all be from escort, tc and sw. Even cm 98 has decent skill requirement, unlike escort, tc and sw.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look.

    mostly I accept. This idea valid. But we need more elite workspace for ower toxic people.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god).
    Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    I do think that's a fairly unhelpful/dismissive generalisation based on fairly limited anecdotal evidence and bias and more the exception to the rule. Having played that content literally hundreds of times, either rarely fully pugging or mostly filling missing static spots, there usually was a fairly night and day difference between giving people with very low (or no) KP a shot and taking experienced high KP players.

    To clarify, KP doesn't directly correlate to player skill ofc, but rather experience with the content at hand, so of course in the early days of a new release a new title directly connected to that is more valuable and accurate than unrelated old KP (or titles) to gauge experience and proficiency with that particular content.
    Yet over the time a single clear title gets more and more devalued by sellers and carrying, while KP's earned from repeated clears once again gain value as most accurate representation for proficiency levels that is/was available to players.

    That said, I do empathise with your frustration about missing the train on building up KP early and then struggling to get into experienced (and therefor likely good) groups while being a very proficient player clearly capable of clearing the content yourself.
    But props to you for just making your own groups and getting it done, which is something everybody can do - especially when they don't believe in KP's being accurate, there really shouldn't be any harm then in making ones own non KP groups, whether KP existed still or not.

    But do take note that you immediately started gating as well as soon as you had a, at least for now somewhat relevant and accurate still, tool to do so in form of the title.

    At the end of the day using be it KP's, Titles or whatever else, isn't done out of spite or purposefully gating, but just people wanting to be matched with players of similar skill, capable of clearing the content smoothly/to their expectations, to have a fun run.
    I don't think it's fair to just demonise that as unjust "discrimination" painting it purely negatively with broad strokes.
    There is a reason people invented the use of KP and used it so broadly, and that's because it was both needed and worked, at least reasonably well.

    I will be rooting for LFG still being a useable tool for high end content without KP's existing anymore as that obviously would be ideal. But having experienced over and over and over again in the past why exactly some gating like KP was necessary to have consistent fun runs with like minded players, I'm just not very optimistic about this being the right move - at least not without any better designed alternative to take it's place.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.
    Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

  • The bad effect we are not realizing yet is in few months when the new players starting cms now will not be able to show the kps will be face the toxicity and challenges to join a group. Again I will be politely telling people to leave if they join my group and do not have 100+kp.

    If they did auto forced conversion of kp then we could have understand, and then people will just bring infusions as kp or maybe Li from raids or so on. As people will not just magically stop using some kind of kp and just go on the first group they find on LFG.

    I wonder if the people who made this design choice ever played this game trough LFG, just come inside the game and go to LFG after your cool intervention and see the for at least 10 min in Prime EU play time. Only 5 days have gone, All cm lfgs are like this X amount of KP + Either DoD or DwD title. (even for old cms + t4 ). Ty for the read.

  • Alita.8142Alita.8142 Member ✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @GHOST.8609 said:
    The bad effect we are not realizing yet is in few months when the new players starting cms now will not be able to show the kps will be face the toxicity and challenges to join a group. Again I will be politely telling people to leave if they join my group and do not have 100+kp.

    If they did auto forced conversion of kp then we could have understand, and then people will just bring infusions as kp or maybe Li from raids or so on. As people will not just magically stop using some kind of kp and just go on the first group they find on LFG.

    I wonder if the people who made this design choice ever played this game trough LFG, just come inside the game and go to LFG after your cool intervention and see the for at least 10 min in Prime EU play time. Only 5 days have gone, All cm lfgs are like this X amount of KP + Either DoD or DwD title. (even for old cms + t4 ). Ty for the read.

    Yes, they have only made the situation worse, now new players can't get the old kp that will still be in demand and that now have more value...
    And even if they had broke the kp completely, there will always be other type of kp that will be asked to enter experienced pugs, and I see it logical, and new players has to look for trainings or groups with low kp, we all did it at the beginning. And else play with guild or friends.

    As low difficulty of CMs for that requirements to go down is a solution very complex, I just see an ideal way, show kp in avatar/portrait just next to AR, a more comfortable and direct system than archaic ping kp/choice title for show.

    And then they also could study someway for that if a group of +50kp for example has a 1-2 players with low kp and wipe/try more times a boss, that group get middle rewards for example like relics, similar to raids with magnetite shards when hit a % of lifebar of boss, something similar to also encourage and reward extra time for complete factals playing with less experienced people.

  • @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Nah, bro, people were saying "Form your own group of like-minded people." This means either join a guild, find some friends or opening the contacts tab, going to the LFG section, selecting the content you wanted to do (Raids, fractals, dungeons, strikes), then with raids and dungeons, selecting the instance you plan on doing or with fractals, selecting the level scale you're doing, clicking "Create Group" and writing your requirements be it "CMs+T4s+Recs | All Roles | 42069 KP", "Chill CMs+T4s", or "All welcome T4s". Protip; the former always t akes longer to fill than t he two latter ones specifically about an hour before reset to an hour after reset. Afterwords, it begins to fall off and all groups take forever to fill about 4-5 hours after reset.

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Players being selective via proofs like these is an example of players "making their own group". You being upset and feeling excluded by such groups is an example of you refusing to make your own group. Makes sense, right?

    No, I have over 500 essence and stack of raid boss tokens. I just dont like to measure kitten. It is completely unnecessary and killing the said game mode. And, yes I make my own lfg and I do not kick people for under performing.

    people are lazy so if it was unecessary as you say no one would use it

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I do not understand what is the issue, there is already a solution, its the abyssal infusion. Requires 42 cm clears and at least 1 cm 100 clear. Can't be faked with chat codes, has a very distinct look. Another solution is the new combat tonic, again 42 cm clears.

    yes if you forget that there is 200 ecto bound to it so if you have to ping 10 of them you need to invest 442 gold when it was just free

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    Title is enough for me. If I wanted more than that, I'd not be playing this game. I'd be playing more competitive game where your skill gets truely tested.
    I am too old to fumble around this type of nonsense stuff.
    These are the same people used to say to new commerce that make your own group, guild, join training run.
    Well, here your chance, join guild, run with your friends if you care that much.
    All of sudden your own suggession seems pretty bad, doesn't it?
    Karma is kitten.

    Actually that is exactly what is going to happen for those that aren't already in statics or guilds like myself.

    Who do you think is better connected and has access to players clearing specific content? More casual players, or hardcore players?

    You are correct though, this will lead to more players joining guilds, discords and statics and leaving the LFG. Making access to this content even harder via the LFG. The end result can be seen in the NA raiding scene, which is pretty much dead LFG wise. In the past at least, more casual but patient players could at least catch up KP wise.

    So the question now becomes: how are you or anyone not as connected benefitting from this change? Besides now not seeing those groups in LFG.

    Weired but you can ping kps on raid. It's the 50+ kp requirement killed the raid lfg.

    I was refering to your suggestion to move to guilds and discords, which is exactly what happened to the NA raiding scene, in part due to a shrinking player base in use of the LFG.

    Which is exactly what you are suggesting and selling as solution to this situation.

    Don't get me wrong, I am often one of the first to recommend players join guilds or discords. I just doubt this will help the LFG using part of the community and given how this is more likely to be done from more invested players... are you getting what I am saying?

    Why did they move to discord or guild on raid though. KPS are still there.
    All i am saying is, all those high number of kps requirement only discourage new players and forces them to join guild or discord or worst not even try the content.
    People who can't handle 5 extra mins or 1 wipe should play with friends/guild just like people who can't clear.
    Lfg has been ridiculously venomous these days with high requirement and very specific needs.
    This must be changed and anet is just trying that I believe.

    if people ain't smart enough to realise if they don't have the kp or a close enough amount they should join a lower amount group or a kp free group then maybe they shouldn't play because mechanics will ask them a minimum of thinking anyway.
    i started fractals 1-2 months ago and could start clearing daily in 0 up to 40kp group
    blaming kp when its totally possible to join groups that are without it isn't a good solution
    people a playing a game to enjoy it, some like to train new player some doesn't and you should respect both equally

    I'd add to that that over the peeps on effeciency i'm above 96% of the player base with 44kp (I don't have dev data to check over the whole player base) so my group level take about 1h-1h30 to clear to CM+T4 so from what you're saying would be my duty to carry someone along my group in which case to make it fair i would have to carry 24 person myself and my 3 other team mate would have to also carry 24 person which mean that in a day we have to carry 96 people which will take between 96 and 144hours of gameplay daily to do so. not gonna happen ty

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    @Cyninja.2954
    Game is coming out on steam soon.
    What would they think if only thing they see is high requirement and sellers ads.
    Anet definitely had to shuffle some stuff. And, this is what we ended up. Hopefully, it is right move.

    now they will see sellers add, people asking for currency that they can't obtain. tell me how is it any better?
    Oh yeah people that will ask for no currency will kick them for bad gameplay when the only thing they need is to learn how mechs works

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.
    Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

    so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.
    Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

    so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

    I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fangoth.4503 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.
    Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

    so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

    I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

    if you can't stay alive you are not doing any job

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Fangoth.4503 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.
    Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

    so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

    I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

    if you can't stay alive you are not doing any job

    you don't have to die if the dps is high enough to kill the boss before he hit you

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fangoth.4503 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Fangoth.4503 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.
    Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

    so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

    I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

    if you can't stay alive you are not doing any job

    you don't have to die if the dps is high enough to kill the boss before he hit you

    that's not gonna happen, also does not change the fact that 2k dps player is more skillfull if he can stay alive

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Fangoth.4503 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Fangoth.4503 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.
    Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

    so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

    I think he's more saying that there is no point bragging about being alive if you cannot do your job half descently.

    if you can't stay alive you are not doing any job

    you don't have to die if the dps is high enough to kill the boss before he hit you

    that's not gonna happen, also does not change the fact that 2k dps player is more skillfull if he can stay alive

    its whole principal of fractal kill fast enough so you take close to 0 damage. go look a bit about speedclear reports:
    98CM:
    MAMA: 36sec kill, 13k to 34k damage taken
    SIAX: 24sec kill, 0 dmg taken
    Ensolyss: 1m26 0 to 3k damage taken
    99CM:
    skor: 39sec, 0 to 8k damage taken
    artsa: 35sec, 360 to 2k damage taken
    arkk:1m23, 1k to 16k damage taken
    full dps and self heal is enough no need to go "minstrel dps"
    ofc if you want you can go full minstrel whatever and facetank everything but no one want that because its totally inefficient. if you fancy 5 healer group go make some in lfg you gonna have your kill but no one will want that in kp group

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic. New fractal came out, we were trying to do CM for more than 4 hours! They could not sustain themselves, learn how to dodge etc. Most of them had fractal titles (champion, savant and even god). Since I have never played shattered CM and had no KPs, it was both a pleasure and disgust watching those people fail over and over again. Now I`m making my own groups with DwD requirement, which worked so far great. Usually, we kill on 1-2 attempts.

    Yes, I`m a bit salty since I know I am better than most of those high KP people, but artificial gates prevents me from doing some of stuff (I came back to game long after shattered CM so I could not accumulate decent amount of KPs)

    From my experience, people with no prior cm knowledge have no idea how to burst, do 1-2k dps and then brag about being the last person alive even if the boss would take 30min with a party full of such players.
    Most high kp groups do the fractal already without any heal saving 5-6min compared to the average party. How do you filter out people that are not used to play without a dedicated healer?

    so you saying the guy that did 2k dps stayed alive while your KP players died and it's his fault? O - M - G

    Yes, since in „those groups“ the consent of people that play is:
    Kill the target as fast as possible before it kills you.

    If there is someone lacking on dps, the whole scenario falls apart, and often enough the last one standing is in fact the reason the other 4 players died.
    Im not saying this is valid for all groups, but this is the most common tactic used.

    But you would need to have enough exp in this content/playstyle to understand that.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArtSpace.7326 said:
    From my experience, people with 250KP are pathetic.

    depend that you wait from 250kp. 250 - is beginners, 1000+ - low-mid, 2000+ mid. No sarcasm.
    Per all time that kp was the true value as train go far. Per all time that kp was - the 250 kp is minimal requirement for hope that person know where write gg, and where stand.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Katary.7096Katary.7096 Member ✭✭✭

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    that's not gonna happen, also does not change the fact that 2k dps player is more skillfull if he can stay alive

    What if the 2k dps player is wearing full nomad gear?

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @Katary.7096 said:
    What if the 2k dps player is wearing full nomad gear?

    in guildward2 we can not inspect build, armor stats, and others things .. So answer: no one know.

    ofc we can report a bug, that we can't to it, but more easy relax...

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A skillful player does high dps while staying alive. Just staying alive is worthless on its own. Everytime i joined 50kp groups i ended outdamaging dps players as alac ren. Sometimes even ended as top dps.
    Some players might know how to play with no or close to no cm knowledge but those players usually played a lot of difficult content in other mmos before. The majority doesnt know how to burst, cc or dps. Not everyone enjoys 15min boss fights with so few phases. It is not a raidboss and doesnt have the mechanics to be enjoyable for that long and 5 minutes here and 3 minutes there add up quite fast. A decent group can clear the new frac in 5-6min already. Thats more than 6min saved compared to your average fiesta. Thats the difference between 35min daily fractal clears and 1h+ runs.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    A skillful player does high dps while staying alive. Just staying alive is worthless on its own. Everytime i joined 50kp groups i ended outdamaging dps players as alac ren. Sometimes even ended as top dps.
    Some players might know how to play with no or close to no cm knowledge but those players usually played a lot of difficult content in other mmos before. The majority doesnt know how to burst, cc or dps. Not everyone enjoys 15min boss fights with so few phases. It is not a raidboss and doesnt have the mechanics to be enjoyable for that long and 5 minutes here and 3 minutes there add up quite fast. A decent group can clear the new frac in 5-6min already. Thats more than 6min saved compared to your average fiesta. Thats the difference between 35min daily fractal clears and 1h+ runs.

    that's not what he said, he said that only one stayed alive 2k dps while the kp players died, so they are unskilled

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:
    KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

    and lie with chat code generator.

    Truth is that, people peaked in their knowledge and skill at around 20 ESS. Most players experienced the largest growth between 1 ESS and about 20 ESS. The difference in player skill between a 20 ESS player and a 200 ESS player was so marginally low that it didn't really matter aside from if you really cared that much about completing your nightly fractal run a few minutes faster than normal. And yeah, that mentality brought in a lot of really really unnecessary toxicity actually.

    @Fir.7932 Mark my words, having no ESS KP for this big fake imminence front will reduce toxicity in very significant ways.

  • @ParadoX.3124 said:
    Title is the new kp

    Titles are bad KP, they can be bought with ease and won't reflect anyone's skill (especially in the case of titles similar to LNHB or the new undying title, where you can get carried by bringing more healers).

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:
    KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

    KP is not an accurate indicator of skill, however, it's the best that people had. I don't think it's discriminatory, everyone has the same chances to acquire said KP and are free to join any groups with the KP that they had. It was literally the easiest solution to the issue that is the lacking LFG system that doesn't give you any idea of anyone's actual skill without using items that can be count as KP. This is an issue in GW2, since a lot of people would rather join groups of their skill level with ease, than join a group of lower skill level and have to do more work for their rewards and for the content.

    minecrafter

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Janitsu.6284 said:

    @ParadoX.3124 said:
    Title is the new kp

    Titles are bad KP, they can be bought with ease and won't reflect anyone's skill (especially in the case of titles similar to LNHB or the new undying title, where you can get carried by bringing more healers).

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:
    KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

    KP is not an accurate indicator of skill, however, it's the best that people had. I don't think it's discriminatory, everyone has the same chances to acquire said KP and are free to join any groups with the KP that they had. It was literally the easiest solution to the issue that is the lacking LFG system that doesn't give you any idea of anyone's actual skill without using items that can be count as KP. This is an issue in GW2, since a lot of people would rather join groups of their skill level with ease, than join a group of lower skill level and have to do more work for their rewards and for the content.

    Faked KP does not reflect a person's skill, either. I reckon the percentage of people faking KP is similar to those buying their titles.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Oldyoung.6109 said:
    KP was never a indicator of skill it was and always will be just a tool for people to be discriminatory.

    and lie with chat code generator.

    Truth is that, people peaked in their knowledge and skill at around 20 ESS. Most players experienced the largest growth between 1 ESS and about 20 ESS. The difference in player skill between a 20 ESS player and a 200 ESS player was so marginally low that it didn't really matter aside from if you really cared that much about completing your nightly fractal run a few minutes faster than normal. And yeah, that mentality brought in a lot of really really unnecessary toxicity actually.

    @Fir.7932 Mark my words, having no ESS KP for this big fake imminence front will reduce toxicity in very significant ways.

    As mentioned in the other thread, the second biggest skill gap is between playing with and without a healer, not in being slightly faster in pressing buttons between 20 ESS and 100 ESS.