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Some Critic about Anet's directions

Dear Anet,

i realy love the game, i love what you created, you created the best pvp in all mmo's and in general for pvp only games.
You created insane good Raids, many coold doungens (fractals), and wvw is pretty cool game mode for it self

You created a lot of realy good stuff that has no real competition from other games, because your combat system way a head from all other games.

But you always try to bring you mijority of your open world pve story players to those game modes, but they don't want, they want open world pve and storys. The other Game modes are diyng because you do not give them what they actually want, YOU could get so many players from other MMO's if you would give them the same love than open pve'ers get.

Balance pvp, its insane that you have a half person for the complete pvp and wvw balance while he has no access to change skills. YOU WOULD GET SO MANY PLAYERS FROM OTHER GAMES, if you would invest in it, of course these are very small groups, but all players left because they feel not loved by anet, you promised us frequent patches, we got 1 big patch and 2 hotfixes in 6 1/2 months.

alliance for WVW kitten you announced it 2 and a half years ago, wvw needs also love, eso pvp, new world pvp all suck compared to ours but we don't get any attention.

raids, you gave us strike missions to bring open world pve'ers to raids, instead of making new raids and bringing people from other mmo's to this one. this did not populate more players in raids, it just disappointed everyone, open world pve'ers did it 1-2 times and raid player where underwhelmed.

GvG? when do we get the gamenaming mod?

little conclusion, don't try to bring your big community that is left to other game modes, that never worked (legy backpack from pvp??? everyone made it, now one was happy)
just make the stuff that they, pvp is super attraktiv for pvp players in general, but balance is not a big word there. same for every other aspact of the game

try to get players from other mmo's with improving whats there and not forcing players to different game mods that they not even liking

Comments

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    SPvP, Raids and WvW combined are probably 15% - 20% of the total game population. The reasons for this are many, but off the top of my head is that GW2 is advertised as a casual-friendly, hop-in and out, play how you want kind of game. If you want to be useful or have any sense of progression/contribution in those modes, it's anything BUT casual/play how you want. Perhaps it's also human nature that co-operation is a better reward than the ego-stroking endorphin rush of ruining another player's game experience.

  • Roche.7491Roche.7491 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2020

    @Funky.4861 said:
    SPvP, Raids and WvW combined are probably 15% - 20% of the total game population. The reasons for this are many, but off the top of my head is that GW2 is advertised as a casual-friendly, hop-in and out, play how you want kind of game. If you want to be useful or have any sense of progression/contribution in those modes, it's anything BUT casual/play how you want. Perhaps it's also human nature that co-operation is a better reward than the ego-stroking endorphin rush of ruining another player's game experience.

    Actually pvp is less than 5% due to high skill cap. 95% of the players are casual & new PVE players who will rush to open world till they quit & move onto another game. Especially when the steam players join soon.

    Pvp on the other hand is highly competitive and requires very high skill cap & learning curve to play. Casual players are discouraged to pvp because they won’t last 5 sec upon an encounter with a high skilled player.

    I just hope when the new elite specs comes in, it will not destroy pvp balance.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Roche.7491 said:

    @Funky.4861 said:
    SPvP, Raids and WvW combined are probably 15% - 20% of the total game population. The reasons for this are many, but off the top of my head is that GW2 is advertised as a casual-friendly, hop-in and out, play how you want kind of game. If you want to be useful or have any sense of progression/contribution in those modes, it's anything BUT casual/play how you want. Perhaps it's also human nature that co-operation is a better reward than the ego-stroking endorphin rush of ruining another player's game experience.

    Actually pvp is less than 5% due to high skill cap. 95% of the players are casual & new PVE players who will rush to open world till they quit & move onto another game. Especially when the steam players join soon.

    Pvp on the other hand is highly competitive and requires very high skill cap & learning curve to play. Casual players are discouraged to pvp because they won’t last 5 sec upon an encounter with a high skilled player.

    I just hope when the new elite specs comes in, it will not destroy pvp balance.

    you mean like every addon?m i hope we get less bunker.

    its true we are less, but this population will never increase, and forcing casual player to noncasual stuff is decreasing the casual player base and the non casuals

  • @Avatar.3568 said:
    its true we are less, but this population will never increase, and forcing casual player to noncasual stuff is decreasing the casual player base and the non casuals

    On, in that last part you are completely right. Trying to funnel casual players into non-casual content does not usually end all that well - and the end result is generally the worse the more incentives/pressure is used to push them there.

    Expanding the non-casual content and designing it only for players liking that type of content may seem like an equally obvious idea, but it's actually a bit more complicated than that. In general, work put into a niche content (and non-casual content is niche) needs to pay off. That works well when those modes have enough of players to pay for themselves, but starts getting more problematic if those modes end up being too niche. Notice also, that in this case what's important is not the player percentages - it's the absolute numbers. A very small percentage of players in a game with a big player community might warrant way more resources dedicated to them than a significant-percentage content in a dying game. There are also some methods to justify more resources for smaller modes, that may be more or less applicable depending on the type of content, and its design specifics. The best method might be trying to find a way to reuse resources, where something made for a non-casual mode benefits casual players as well (but, remember, without trying to mix casuals and hardcores in non-casual content), or where the costs of developing non-casual content is minimized by using as much of the resources originally made for mainstream content as possible.

    Deciding how much resources can be dedicated to such a mode, and in which way is not trivial, and requires a lot of calculations and knowledge. And assuming that all that is needed is to make more content, and that surely will get enough of new players without doing such market research first is not a good way to make business decisions.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You seem to have confused "critique" with "begging for treats".

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • They don’t develop sPvP, because it already failed. Dropped from eSports. GG.

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm generally an open world PvE kinda player, and i tend to really like the content they do put more resources into like Living World. But, I do occasionally get an itch for some sPvP, WvW, and raids. And I can play them just fine and enjoy it. But. I will also say that from my experience, trying to force more people into things like PvP modes will probably not go over well. Currently it's a requirement to play WvW to get a Gift of Battle for a legendary, and even though that's just simply spending time in the mode for a reward track, i see so many complaints from PvE players about it. I don't want to see the backlash from them locking even more stuff behind the competitive modes.
    At one point in time they even tried to push pvp as an esport and it bombed. At this point, I think Anet is just going to stick with what they know makes the most money. I, too, would like WvW alliances and just better incentives/rewards for things like WvW, but most of the community seems to just not care about that content. But, the game is marketed toward the more casual crowd, so those are the types of players you're going to end up with.

  • Roche.7491Roche.7491 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2020

    Just thank gw2 for developing a story. Most mmo are just pure grinding.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Roche.7491 said:
    Just thank gw2 for developing a story. Most mmo are just pure grinding.

    I would if it were.... good? Honestly even WoW has better, deeper and more engaging lore and story. So does ESO (ESO is way more a living world than this game ever has been, every choice changes outcomes and potential encounters.) Id rather them drop the story and go full sand-box and let us explore and make our own stories with our guilds.... This is one of the reasons guild wars 1 was superior and that comes down to the narrative just... being better.

    And again Guild wars 2 is no less grindy if you truly want to get anywhere, saying otherwise is unfair. WoW is less grindy than guild wars 2 and has been for several expansions now, most of it is the same stuff guild wars has. (World quests, world bosses, raids, dungeons, Mythic+= fractals) And WoW barely supports PvP but it does have tournaments for it, but for new modes and maps its not always the case and most of the time balance is all over the place.

    If Guild wars 2 was TRULY a PvE based experience, the combat engine would be different and likely they wouldn't market it as a PvP game. As my screenshots provide and show-case.... Their words/facts> Your opinion. Until A-net comes out and says word per word, that they have no intention of cadence for those modes and that they are not the focus and remove them from the steam page, tags and so on Im going to assume that they aren't bull-face lying. And to be fair if they tagged it as what it was, a mmo-rpg, PvE game Im actually quite sure more people would come to the game. Because PvE will ALWAYS be more popular at least... early on for gamers because honestly its far more forgiving than PvP. But when you've done the PvE and gotten everywhere you wana go, its really not that big of a deal and you'll likely try PvP I did see your initial post at least briefly before it vanished. Not all modes are for all people, in a game of thousands your 100 or so friends mean next to nothing might not even be a blip and WvW has been locked up and basically que heavy for a while now.

    So for you to claim that you have any form of an idea of the analytics and numbers that the mode has (WvW) without providing facts? Im sorry, I doubt you and your ability to formulate a proper analysis of it. As for PvP... yea... thats not in a very good place... but SPvP has been in a rough spot for a bit now. Ever since E-sports failed which came down to their poor balancing, and lukewarm cadence.

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    I'm generally an open world PvE kinda player, and i tend to really like the content they do put more resources into like Living World. But, I do occasionally get an itch for some sPvP, WvW, and raids. And I can play them just fine and enjoy it. But. I will also say that from my experience, trying to force more people into things like PvP modes will probably not go over well. Currently it's a requirement to play WvW to get a Gift of Battle for a legendary, and even though that's just simply spending time in the mode for a reward track, i see so many complaints from PvE players about it. I don't want to see the backlash from them locking even more stuff behind the competitive modes.
    At one point in time they even tried to push pvp as an esport and it bombed. At this point, I think Anet is just going to stick with what they know makes the most money. I, too, would like WvW alliances and just better incentives/rewards for things like WvW, but most of the community seems to just not care about that content. But, the game is marketed toward the more casual crowd, so those are the types of players you're going to end up with.

    Welp, thats fine let raids give gift of battle to the PvE crowd to push the strict PvE only peeps to that game mode. Or heck even in strikes for the currencies, make it outlandishly expensive like gold + whatever else to get. But in return give us EVERY SINGLE REWARD you can ever get from PvE in WvW and PvP as reward tracks, as well give us the chance to EARN and WIN gifts required to make legendaries so we dont have to craft as well <3. Then We can stay in our corner and all the PvE crowd can stay in theirs; Forcing the two to mix clearly has been detrimental to both sides.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mortifera.6138 said:
    They don’t develop sPvP, because it already failed. Dropped from eSports. GG.

    It failed because they started with the worst Meta possible the esports, pvp was before Hots pre patch at its peak in terms of balance

    Some say before pof was it very good too, but there was already esports dead

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Remember that just because you or your friends don't enjoy over it doesn't take away the fact that most of the playerbase play gw2 because of it's pve.
    I don't pvp so what is exactly what overs want Anet to do? Skill balance? New maps? New modes?

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SLOTH.5231 said:
    Everything you mentioned takes time and money. That time and money is going towards living stories and expansions because like funky said above that is where the majority of players are and that's where most of the revenue comes from.

    There is a reason WvW and PvP has been put in the back burner simply because the time and money needed to get it right isn't worth the investment.

    Everybody needs to realize Anet has to pay employees everytime they work on the game and those particular game modes don't bring in any additional revenue while PVE does.

    At least that's my theory anyway.

    I don't see how living story makes revenue, when it's literally free.
    They also refused to make expansions twice now, and always give in, so that isn't where their time and money is going either.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    Living story is only free if you log-in when it's active. If you miss it you'll have to pay some gems, but it's only 200 per episode iirc.

  • @Funky.4861 said:
    SPvP, Raids and WvW combined are probably 15% - 20% of the total game population. The reasons for this are many, but off the top of my head is that GW2 is advertised as a casual-friendly, hop-in and out, play how you want kind of game. If you want to be useful or have any sense of progression/contribution in those modes, it's anything BUT casual/play how you want. Perhaps it's also human nature that co-operation is a better reward than the ego-stroking endorphin rush of ruining another player's game experience.

    Too bad co-operation tuns into the same idiocy in every MMO. As in: You do all the work, we all get the same rewards, even though all most of us did was show up at the appointed time. And we all know what that leads to.

    PvP is worse, of course, but that is just the way it has always been. Humans, am i right?

  • @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Funky.4861 said:
    SPvP, Raids and WvW combined are probably 15% - 20% of the total game population. The reasons for this are many, but off the top of my head is that GW2 is advertised as a casual-friendly, hop-in and out, play how you want kind of game. If you want to be useful or have any sense of progression/contribution in those modes, it's anything BUT casual/play how you want. Perhaps it's also human nature that co-operation is a better reward than the ego-stroking endorphin rush of ruining another player's game experience.

    Too bad co-operation tuns into the same idiocy in every MMO. As in: You do all the work, we all get the same rewards, even though all most of us did was show up at the appointed time. And we all know what that leads to.

    Well, most other MMORPGs are still running on old-fashion shared loot system, so no, players do not receive the same rewards there. Not that it helps any - loot division is frequently a source of tension in itself, and is one of the main things that ends up killing raid parties in most MMORPGs.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2020

    @coso.9173 said:
    Remember that just because you or your friends don't enjoy over it doesn't take away the fact that most of the playerbase play gw2 because of it's pve.
    I don't pvp so what is exactly what overs want Anet to do? Skill balance? New maps? New modes?

    I dont think anyone is saying that, many are just saying "No one, should go without content." They promised a second half to the feburary balance patch, it has not arrived. They promised regular fixes and those have not happened; I for one would love a new map and maybe some nuance shoved into the mode. Id like it to evolve like open world PvE has; It does not need content 24/7 being pumped into it but three major releases a year with regular balance updates is NOT too much too ask.

    PvP is a different animal and needs love, but the damage done there has been done by the dev's. WvW is in a better place but both could use some serious love and I hope we get it; We all should be getting content and be treated as equals as we all play the same game. Most PvP/WvWers are also doing the PvE content and form squads for meta's and actually do contribute to the PvE crowd. I lead maps when no one else is, I also step up and lead pug strikes if Im up for it or in the mood so generally I dont think its fair for us to be ridiculed and belittled like we are. If WvW were dropped then Id likely leave as the PvE here is not as good as elsewhere, not as deep or rich but fun sure... but I myself am not here for that.

    You sound like one of those people throwing their arms up, and having a fit because most of us just want some love too. We dont want to take anything from you or the PvE crowd; We just want to be given some goodies too... and I think thats fair considering we give money just like you do. We buy their products and their expansions, we bring people into the game (Brought five over the last two weeks, for WvW because they said it looked fun. Five new members for our guild.) Those I've brought go through PvE, they bought the expansions and all the living world and will go through the content and be part of the fresh blood that revitalizes abandoned content. (S3 maps are so empty most of the time, with new players those maps might see play again.)

    I want to be excited, thats it. I love this game and franchise.... But Im honestly tired of people berating me for my wants; And demeaning me because I dont strictly PvE and I dont Strictly AP grind. I do what I find to be fun. And I want what I enjoy to prosper and be built upon and made more dynamic and interesting, with new and fresh ideas and maps and beautiful enviorments. I feel its unfair to be begrudged that when its not as if we are asking for the moon and the stars, heck many PvE maps if repurposed right could make for fun WvW maps. (Imagine a re-imagining of glints lair as a WvW map and its during the time where the forgotten and glint herself were still there? An Echo of that. And the team who owns the map is doing everything they can, to bolster and defend glint. With the Mursaat and the Branded being both the opposing factions? Since time works differently in the mists it could just encoperate all of the conflicts she was involved in within the map.)

    Thats what I want, more nuance and dynamic/complexity to a map. Objectives to mean something, maps to be added twice a year and put on a rotation so you dont always get the same map. I want updates to EB and I want it to feel like the modern game (Which mind you, the new maps are ALWAYS beautiful.) And I want edge of the mists to mean something again.... bring that back into the fold.

  • Tyncale.1629Tyncale.1629 Member ✭✭✭

    I wish people would put something like [PVP] in their thread title, indicating this is a Wish/Rant related to PvP/WvW issues, not PvE. Would probably save me opening about 75% of all threads in General Discussion.

  • Gw 2 was not the best game to add raids to for this game is meant to be easy without any need to learn much to play it

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree wrt raids, but feel that your point is oversimplified. /shrug

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • GW2 seriously needs to advertise its PvP/WvW. Few MMOs out there actually handle combat right, and while GW2 is one of them, the majority of its player base is consist of PvE gamers. I'd call this a great shame.

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet has been keeping an eye on the things players want for a while and look where its gotten them...

    In a saturated market, they should have had a clear vision of what they wanted to make their game to be (and how it'd be different from others) before pushing the product to market. Pandering to the next bandwagon, money-making, trendy, new and popular craze always peeters out eventually and then you're left in a cycle of appeasing an ever shifting audience wanting different things or risk losing them.

    Well, at least you got mounts out of it (the best mounts of any game, IMO). Unpopular opinion, but I think they need to stop listening to disgruntled fans and just make the game they want to make.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I dont think anyone is saying that, many are just saying "No one, should go without content."

    In a perfect world, with enough resources to satisfy the fans of any content, that is definitely true. Unfortunately, we do not live in that kind of world, and developer resources are limited. Too limited to support all of already existing content types, apparently.

    Devs tried at some point to satisfy everyone, only to realize eventually that by doing this they would not be able to satisfy anyone. Basically, they overreached, due to not having a clear vision of whom this game should be for (or by not trying to limit that vision by the amount of available resources). And the consequences of that can be felt to this day.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Halbarz.3854Halbarz.3854 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2020

    I think some people think that the WvW community is asking for a whole revamp :P all we are asking for is a piece of the pie ... a very small piece even.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree that the PvP and WvW can be fun to do sometimes. GW2 was my favourite MMORPG to play these modes in, but I no longer enjoy it much even in GW2. I think the whole MMORPG genre doesn't really fit well with PvP because things like balance issues are persistent and impactful. I mostly find my PvP fix in other types of games these days because I find them more fun. MMORPGs are mostly a PvE thing for me now. I guess Anet will focus on the areas of the game that attract the most revenue and players because it is in their business interest to do so.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Well, most other MMORPGs are still running on old-fashion shared loot system, so no, players do not receive the same rewards there. Not that it helps any - loot division is frequently a source of tension in itself, and is one of the main things that ends up killing raid parties in most MMORPGs.

    Really? Give me some examples then. Name some game, for starters.

    ...uh. The GW2 system where each player receives their own, separate drops (instead of drops being group-based that need to be divided between players, which is the norm) is a relatively new approach - offhand the only one MMORPG with character-based drop system besides GW2 i can remember is ESO.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Zephire.8049Zephire.8049 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Funky.4861 said:
    SPvP, Raids and WvW combined are probably 15% - 20% of the total game population. The reasons for this are many, but off the top of my head is that GW2 is advertised as a casual-friendly, hop-in and out, play how you want kind of game. If you want to be useful or have any sense of progression/contribution in those modes, it's anything BUT casual/play how you want. Perhaps it's also human nature that co-operation is a better reward than the ego-stroking endorphin rush of ruining another player's game experience.

    Too bad co-operation tuns into the same idiocy in every MMO. As in: You do all the work, we all get the same rewards, even though all most of us did was show up at the appointed time. And we all know what that leads to.

    Well, most other MMORPGs are still running on old-fashion shared loot system, so no, players do not receive the same rewards there. Not that it helps any - loot division is frequently a source of tension in itself, and is one of the main things that ends up killing raid parties in most MMORPGs.

    Really? Give me some examples then. Name some game, for starters.

    • World of Warcraft
    • Black Desert Online
    • Final Fantasy 14
    • Lord of the Rings Online
    • The Secret World
    • Star Wars the Old Republic (this one may have changed last year but I'm not digging through a patch notes article on it)

    • Elder Scrolls Online has shared mob loot but server-side loot chests on the map that players fight over.

    And that about covers all the larger MMOs these days AFAIK, so yes, GW2 is the only one aside from ESO that gives everyone an equal chance at loot and the only one where people don't compete for map-based loot.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Well, most other MMORPGs are still running on old-fashion shared loot system, so no, players do not receive the same rewards there. Not that it helps any - loot division is frequently a source of tension in itself, and is one of the main things that ends up killing raid parties in most MMORPGs.

    Really? Give me some examples then. Name some game, for starters.

    ...uh. The GW2 system where each player receives their own, separate drops (instead of drops being group-based that need to be divided between players, which is the norm) is a relatively new approach - offhand the only one MMORPG with character-based drop system besides GW2 i can remember is ESO.

    Yes, and that is one of the reasons raids are what they are. When you need to battle RNG and other people fot the next gear treadmill equipment, eventually people are going to take their frustration out on each other. I say "eventually", but really, that is the first thing most people do. At least GW2 avoided that.

    Or at least so claim the people who raid in those kind of games, as i'm sure you know. I wonder why they also advocate for more "difficulty" and forced grouping? Seems... well, seems strange. Not to mention all the screaming and whining about "casual". All you can do: shrug

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I dont think anyone is saying that, many are just saying "No one, should go without content."

    In a perfect world, with enough resources to satisfy the fans of any content, that is definitely true. Unfortunately, we do not live in that kind of world, and developer resources are limited. Too limited to support all of already existing content types, apparently.

    Devs tried at some point to satisfy everyone, only to realize eventually that by doing this they would not be able to satisfy anyone. Basically, they overreached, due to not having a clear vision of whom this game should be for (or by not trying to limit that vision by the amount of available resources). And the consequences of that can be felt to this day.

    Thats their mess to sort out, personally I know I and likely many of my guild would not buy the games next expansion solely on PvE content. (Unless the specs really grabbed us, which PoF didn't.) Unless there was something big, really big.... which I Doubt there will be. I think WvW can afford some love given it really doesn't have that small of a player base; Not as big as open world PvE but likely larger than the other modes by a wide margin.

  • @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    ...uh. The GW2 system where each player receives their own, separate drops (instead of drops being group-based that need to be divided between players, which is the norm) is a relatively new approach - offhand the only one MMORPG with character-based drop system besides GW2 i can remember is ESO.

    Yes, and that is one of the reasons raids are what they are. When you need to battle RNG and other people fot the next gear treadmill equipment, eventually people are going to take their frustration out on each other. I say "eventually", but really, that is the first thing most people do. At least GW2 avoided that.

    I did mention that the classic method of loot sharing does lead to its own problems, didn't i? I personally prefer GW2 approach here as well.

    My original response was only to your earlier comment:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    Too bad co-operation tuns into the same idiocy in every MMO. As in: You do all the work, we all get the same rewards, even though all most of us did was show up at the appointed time. And we all know what that leads to.

    (I bolded the relevant part of that quote)

    And i responded to this, because, as i have already said, that is completely not true. Not in "every MMO", not even in most of them.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Thats their mess to sort out

    True. It's just that the only solution that would satisfy everyone (them suddenly and magically getting enough resources to be able to support all the types of content they have to player satisfaction) is not going to happen. So, you can bet that the one they will eventually go with is going to disappoint some players.

    Notice, by the way, that they are doing something about it - abandoning further raid development and moving to a less resource-intensive (and a bit more accessible for wider audience) strike system was such a step.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Thats their mess to sort out

    True. It's just that the only solution that would satisfy everyone (them suddenly and magically getting enough resources to be able to support all the types of content they have to player satisfaction) is not going to happen. So, you can bet that the one they will eventually go with is going to disappoint some players.

    Notice, by the way, that they are doing something about it - abandoning further raid development and moving to a less resource-intensive (and a bit more accessible for wider audience) strike system was such a step.

    Fair, but you ignored my other point. WvW should NOT be going contentless with how many play it. If anything Open world/WvW should be getting roughly equal content cadence as both have the most thriving player-bases in the community. PvP likely would still have that if it hadn't been nuked from orbit when they failed at E-sports; And if what you say is true remove the modes and cull the fat. Put those rewards/enemies and stories elsewhere so those assets and such dont go to waste? Because raids as are, waste space and honestly are dying. Move those encounters over to strikes then? Dumb them down? I dont know. I dont feel like A-nets answer is nessacarily the correct one; Abandoning content is not good. And stringing players along who like that content and hold out hope for it is wrong~

    They just need to come out and be honest, say openly that X content is no longer supported and let those players go. If you dont care enough create content for that section of the playerbase, then the least you can do is say you're putting their content out to pasture and let them go right along with it. Then double down on what you wana make and do; IF that means they removed EVERYTHING but open world then I guess thats the direction they wana go? Which means those of us who don't like it can move on and let the game go, and they can deal with whatever is left-over.

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Thats their mess to sort out

    True. It's just that the only solution that would satisfy everyone (them suddenly and magically getting enough resources to be able to support all the types of content they have to player satisfaction) is not going to happen. So, you can bet that the one they will eventually go with is going to disappoint some players.

    Notice, by the way, that they are doing something about it - abandoning further raid development and moving to a less resource-intensive (and a bit more accessible for wider audience) strike system was such a step.

    Fair, but you ignored my other point. WvW should NOT be going contentless with how many play it. If anything Open world/WvW should be getting roughly equal content cadence as both have the most thriving player-bases in the community.

    Perhaps your assumption about the size of WvW community is not true. Just saying.

    PvP likely would still have that if it hadn't been nuked from orbit when they failed at E-sports; And if what you say is true remove the modes and cull the fat. Put those rewards/enemies and stories elsewhere so those assets and such dont go to waste? Because raids as are, waste space and honestly are dying. Move those encounters over to strikes then? Dumb them down? I dont know. I dont feel like A-nets answer is nessacarily the correct one; Abandoning content is not good. And stringing players along who like that content and hold out hope for it is wrong~

    You're right, of course. It's far better to have a clear, realistic vision about whom the game is supposed to be for, and communicate that vision equally clearly. It's just Anet has never been good at communication, and even worse at admitting mistakes.

    I mean, raids are an extremely good example of making a ton of mistakes one after another.
    First they introduced raids in a game that at this point was mostly casual, and made it a type of content casual players should never bother visiting. They put in there a lot of stuff that was greatly desirable to many players that weree not really interested in raids, or, worse, were a very bad match for that type of content. At the same time they were sending a number of confusing messages about the content (remember where they, at the same time, were saying that the content is meant only for players in full ascended, while immediately comment that they fully expect players to eventually be doing them naked. That the content is meant for the best of the best only, but they intend it to be the end of the road for practically everyone). All that meant everyone were entering raids with completely different expectations.

    Then, they made another major mistake. They almost certainly knew immediately how much resources were they willing to dedicate for raids. That amount of resources was not enough to match the fresh expectations of newly created raid community. So, instead of tempering those expectations from the get go, they kept promising more and more, increasing the hype. At the same time, they also kept selling the image of raids as the most important content to the rest of the player community. Again, it didn't exactly match what they were really doing (resources dedicated for LS/open world were always much bigger than those for raids, for example), but messages sent and dev outward attitude are very important for MMORPGs.
    So, they kept angering casual players with a perceived shift of the design mode towards more hardcore ones. They also kept offering those hardcore players the heavens. In the end however, they never delivered those heavens - and with passing time it became more clear that they never had the means to do so. At the same time, they didn't want to admit to that openly - even when they eventually did that, they did that relatively quietly, and in a way that is still not too conclusive. By doing that, they left both groups of players unsatisfied (and often angry).

    They just need to come out and be honest, say openly that X content is no longer supported and let those players go.

    Except they don't want to let any players go. They'd rather prefer players keep hoping for some bright future that will never get realized for them, and stick to the game for that little bit longer (and maybe keep buying stuff in the meantime). In this, they never considered the players' point of view - only theirs.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Anet should really delete PvP instead of giving us false hope that they are going to put any time or care into at all.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:
    Anet should really delete PvP instead of giving us false hope that they are going to put any time or care into at all.

    No its still one of the best pvp games ever existed