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Current State Of Match Making - Bad Matches - Why? - Discussion


Trevor Boyer.6524

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This post was initially in response to this thread -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/114995/matchmaking-completely-busted

But as usual I went in-depth on it, and felt it needed it's own thread.

I think responses that @Vaan.3160 is getting are not noticing the point he is making.

He mentions he is usually a p2-p3 player, which shows he already knows how to win a game in guild wars 2.

What he is referencing is something that many many people have been pointing out lately, which are matches that are actually impossible to win regardless of how good you are or what strategies you are using. He also mentions having streaks of such bad match making that can drop a normal p2/p3 player into gold division.

I've noticed this is as well, not just with my own account's patterns but also the patterns of other players whom I've known for years. This strange and suspicious algorithm activity is largely why I don't take ranked seriously anymore. So imagine if I were to list about 20 people's names from NA who had played p2+ consistently for about the past 2 or 3 years. Now if I were to evaluate those 20 people's performance within about the past 12 months, I'd notice that all of them have maintained their mechanical abilities over the years and they all feel just as difficult to face as they always have mechanically. In ATs they are still just as difficult to deal with as ever and they are still players who ball together to encompass the top 10 strongest teams in NA or even top 5. But for some reason, only about 50% of these 20 players being evaluated are actually playing at a rating of p2+. The other half are reporting exactly what @Vaan.3160 brought up, strange impossible to carry match making that limits them to gold 3 range, rarely allowing them to peak into bottom p1 play.

^ This is a true story, real example being used btw. I've been paying attention to it for quite a few seasons now. So even though those 20 players are nearly identical in peaked skill & knowledge of the game to encompass NA's clearly & visually best players, even historically, people we know so well that we wouldn't need to see a rating above their head to know their skill level, suddenly about half of those players have mysteriously been shoved down into this g3/p1 tribulation mode match making whereas the other half are easily and consistently maintaining p2/p3 standards. Something is wrong with that. Especially where those g3/p1 players are just as good as or better than the p2+ players in AT play. And don't give me that "ATs are so different than yolo/duo" garbage, because we all know that organized 5 man play is a lot harder to keep relevant in than yolo/duo. If a person can consistently win final rounds of ATs against the best players in the game for their region, surely they should be able to maintain a plat 1 level even solo queue. Yet I know many players who have up & left the game who were once amongst the best, claiming that "They can't win ranked games anymore. The match making is broken." So what is going on here?

Well let's get the usual accusations out of the way:

  • Win Trading - It is very real in 2020 but only certain groups of people really have incentive enough to do this and lately they aren't online much or so it seems. Maybe they are on alts throwing, maybe not. But usually a win trade is obvious to those who are aware, by right click viewing the account names of those in the game, and by watching the flow of the match. Lately these bad matches don't feel like win trading to me. Something else is going on.
  • General Alt Throwing - This is also very real in 2020. People play alts and they will throw games against the mains of people they don't like because well, it's a very funny thing to do. But usually this kind of vengeance & rivalry throwing is made obvious through slight trolling, just enough to let someone know what's going on without actually saying it, so that the thrower can benefit maximum QQ entertainment in the process. It's also pretty obvious as to who is purposely throwing, by watching the actions of a player mechanically and rotationally. Some things are too stupid for anyone to do, even if they were wood tier. Some things are so detrimentally stupid for a player to ever do, that a person would actually need to possess a p2+ understanding of the game to even be able to identify that the throw action would hurt the team that much. When you start seeing actions like that happening, you can tell that the person knows the game very well, to be making sure that everything they do is the wrong thing to do. But lately this isn't even happening. Lately it's just honest terrible unprecedented bad match making, where the teams clearly & visually are lopsided as all hell.
  • Low population - Yeah yeah yeah, ok. It does cause problems. But that doesn't explain why out of 20 historically great players, 50% of them continue on with generally the same match quality, but the other 50% suddenly are thrown into the g3 tribulation, playing 200+ rating lower than the other p2/p3 guys who are in every way their equals no better no worse. Something else is going on that hasn't really been figured out or talked about yet.

Now for years we've had talk in the forum about some accounts being on the good list for match making and some accounts being on the bad list for match making. Lately I am beginning to wonder if something like this is actually happening. This is because of the sheer visibility of what is happening, due to low population. It definitely looks like some accounts are consistently being given the bad end of match making, regardless of if they are solo or duo. Then other accounts seem to be given otherwise balanced matches that are actually winnable, as if they were being allowed to have an algorithm that worked as intended. This is very visible if you look at what's happening from a macro standpoint of the community, rather than just your own subjective experience during queue. The real question here is: "Why is that happening?" Is it a bug? Is it being done to some players on purpose? Is it administrative? Is it just some players getting a lot of attention from throw alts?

A few things I've noticed, and keep in mind that a player with nearly 20,000 games played knows the game well. If you are a player of similar experience, you would know that you are able to tell the difference between when you are performing well or poorly, when your partner is carrying you or holding you down, and when a match is just suspiciously lopsided and in no way winnable even for a top 5 duo, whom you know their capabilities well because you are against them in ATs all of the time.

  1. I'm bottom plat 1 on my main account that is approaching 20,000 games played. I'm bottom plat 1 and most of my games are so incredibly ball busting difficult and full of randoms, regardless of if I am solo or duo, that I will need to consistently win 1v2s the entire game to have any chance at all of pulling a win. And if I don't have a kill ratio of like straight downing & finishing 2 players per about 60s, there will be no way to win the match. Yet when I log into my alt that has only about 500 or 600 ranked games played, I can be around 1620 rating and much more often than not my matches are less than half as difficult as the main. They are so much easier even at +100 rating or higher, that in some of these matches I could actually AFK for a good 60s and come back, and still have no problem winning the game. Under no circumstances does the main account EVER get granted games that are that easy, even if it drops into g3 tribulation. <- Some of you probably remember me writing a thread that followed this with screenshots of the main vs alt rating for a few seasons in a row, to prove that I was not joking around about this. The main account clearly is being given much much more difficult match making, even if it's in g3 and the alt is in p2. It's also important to note that the alt is seemingly allowed to stay within 1620 - 1580 rating the entire season with no strange streaks applied to it. But the main CONSISTENTLY will bounce back and forth from bottom 1600 to bottom 1400 range, over and over and over and over. Every time the main touches 1600, it's like an automated forced lose streak occurs, and it will be made to go and nearly touch g2 before the bad match avalanche stops. That never happens on the alt. Not once has it happened to the alt.
  2. There are some players that I queue with who are p2 standard, that we can't lose a match until we get up around 1600+. When this happens, it is not that the person is carrying so hard or I am carrying so hard. No, it's that the games just feel normal and approachable and not janky. But then other p2 standard players I will queue with, literally every time I try to queue with particular people, we cannot win a game at all and will go down to g3 margins if we continue to queue together. And this isn't because he is bad or I am bad or our duo is just not good together. No, the games we are being put in are all clearly lopsided. Our pugs will always be super random accounts that we've never seen before and will never see again, they perform atrociously bad, and yet we are being put against some p2+ duo or better who has actual players on their teams that everyone knows and recognizes. The matches are clearly lopsided as all hell, every time. These patterns I am noticing are no embellishment. There are certain players that it would seem within the algorithm, I am not allowed to queue with. Why would that happen? I have no idea but it does.
  3. I'll go into an AT with a p2 team or sometimes a p2/p1 team, sometimes even just a bottom p1 team. We'll get to the final round and lose to some MAT worthy team of top p3+ players only 500 to 350+, other times we in the final round. We'll take that same plat team and earlier in the AT we'll crunch the other plat teams like 500 to 200. Sometimes our plat teams will beat other plat teams like 500 to 100 or less. And then that moment occurs, when you look at the leaderboards and wonder how in the kitten is it even possible that those players that you just beat and always beat in ATs 500 to 100 or less, are somehow all at the same ranked ratings as the players on your team. You wonder after facing them several times in ATs, and seeing how they are rotationally & combat mechanically ill, how is it even possible for these players to be anywhere near 1600+ margins in ranked. And then you start wondering other things like how is it even possible that I know a few guys right now, who could very seriously 1v2 any of the players on their team, but somehow those guys are stuck in the g3/bottom plat tribulation. And it occurs to you, something is wrong here.

Over the years I have harped on and on endlessly about this game's match making and the leaderboard manipulation therein. In the earlier years when population was high and things were more difficult to notice, many people if not most people, cried conspiracy and said I was wrong. But when population got low and things became more visible, guess what, I was right, about everything. There was even one time in the old forum that I had noticed a small mechanical error in the match making and harped on about it for nearly a year, having players tell me I was wrong, until an arenanet dev came in and stated that they did find an error doing exactly what I had noticed and that it would soon be patched. This probably sounds egotistical to most reading this, but I don't know how else to say it. I am good at noticing patterns, always have been. Literally everything I have ever noticed and pointed out in this forum pertaining to match making, has in time revealed itself to be true. Literally every single thing. I urge you to find and quote something from me that didn't.

My point in bringing all of that up ^ is that I am once again pointing out that something is definitely very wrong with the match making. Some accounts are consistently being given worse match making than others. The real question is why. This time around, it isn't simply luck or win trading or throwing. Whatever is going on here, is happening through some kind of algorithm function or possibly something administrative. If we want to continue seeing playable games, I urge everyone to pitch it, begin paying attention, and try to narrow down what exactly is going on here.

Here are my first thoughts:

  1. Total games played - It has been stated in past patch notes that total games played does indeed inflate an account's base MMR which is invisible and under seasonal rating. It has also been stated that actual MMR does indeed effect match making. But to what degree it effects match making has never been stated. This would explain a lot actually, but not everything. Nonetheless, this function may have worked 4+ years ago, but as the years move on heading into year 9, this is just simply unfair. A new player can catch up and peak in skill & knowledge to a vet by the time they are around 2000 games played. But the vet they are equal to is being punished in this match making for having 20,000 games played. This function needs to be removed completely.
  2. A straight up bug - I've often felt that my match making on my main account was bugged. For the older players out there, we know what it feels like, the difference, between a g3 match, a p1 match, a p2 match, a p3+ match. There are distinct shifts in how the matches feel and work. So keeping that in mind, understand that sometimes when my main would go on those very strange epic lose streaks down into g3 and then continue to lose until it was damn near g2, it would very distinctly feel like every match even in bottom g3, it was placing me as if I were still p2+. I mean seriously, every game down in bottom g3 would be so unusually and unnecessarily difficult for absolutely no reason other than if you stop and think about it and it occurs to you that: "This level of difficulty would make sense if I was trying to yolo and were still 1600+, like this is EXACTLY what a 1600+ game feels like" yet I am nearly in g2 and it is still happening. The games don't feel win trade, they don't feel throw, they feel like it is still placing me as if I were 1600+. So I wonder if there is a bug that happens sometimes, where the algorithm is somehow not updating the player's shift in actual rating/MMR for some elongated amount of time, and indeed is placing a player with some previous rating/MMR. Obviously the leaderboards reflect rating gain/loss, but is the algorithm a different system than leaderboard updates? Could the algorithm hiccup and somehow the numbers inside the algorithm get stuck like this? It would honestly explain a lot. It would explain unholy lose streaks from p2/p3 down to nearly g2, and then suddenly all in 1 game, it flips and then the matches are so easy for the next 10-15 games all super easy, and the player shoots right back up to 1600+, and then it happens again. It would also explain occurrences where I know for a fact that I was losing A LOT more rating for losses mid season than I should have for being so low, and I was gaining half of what I should have for the rating I was at. <- This has definitely happened to me on a couple different occasions. Remember, I have nearly 20,000 games played here, I'm not ignorant. When it's mid season and I'm 90 games deep in g3 and I yolo queue beat a p2+ duo and only gain +9 but lose -17 if they beat me, something is wrong with that.
  3. A new form of flat out cheating - Yes, I've wondered. Without without much explanation I'll say that some of these matches no longer look win trade or throw. Like there is visually not anyone on your team or the other team who appear to be purposely throwing at all, but rather it feels exactly like in an inhouse when too many strong players get stacked on one team. Some of these games are so ridiculously lopsided that even while viewing the leaderboards you ask yourself: "How did the algorithm even put me into this match? The other team is clearly stacked with much stronger players." Some of these matches lately feel like someone has administrative access to tinker with the match making, similar to custom arenas where the owner can just put people on whatever team he wants. So yeah, I wonder what's going on here.

Anyway, maybe someone inside the arenanet office cares, maybe not, but I feel like the game mode is dying out here for all of the wrong reasons, and ridiculously busted match making in the ranked mode is at the top of the list, right under it being ranked mode solo/duo which is too easy to match manipulate. I know that arenanet can see the same patterns that I can see, if they wanted to look at it at all. I just wish they'd care enough to sort it out. I feel like these problems are simply not difficult to resolve, whether it's updating/patching/fixing the algorithm for a low population community, or simply removing ranked, shuffling ranked rewards to unranked, and putting rating/badge icon into shorter 1 month long seasons tied to MATs, whatever. I just want the game to make sense again and have a firewall against such easy & casual match manipulations.

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Bad matches are simply a result of solo + duo q only. You can go into a match and if you have solid specs with a strong strategy for carrying most matches should be ez, but if your strategy isn’t enough your matches will be harder or just out carried by the next duo q. So many times have I seen great duos that do there job but still lose because the other duos strat makes up for the impact they have, so they lose but still did the right thing in the match. The only thing that would make these “bad matches” any better in the cases I’m thinking of would be a team q, but let’s be honest not all the duos use “meta builds” and “proper rotations” so in the end a team q won’t change much for a lot of ppl.

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I've been playing pvp since the beginning, from this classification system, the system almost always looks for you to be in the 50% of wins and losses. You win 3 games in a row, the 4th always takes almost twice as long to jump, even putting for example 1:30 or 1:40, it goes after 4 min, to find a team below your level.

Last game to raise the Tier as before, the waiting time is double and the team is well below your division, therefore you lose 3 or 4 games in a row, it is a loop.

sorry my bad english

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Tin foil hat on.Conspiracy theory 1: This season has the 2v2 matchmaker rating is taken as a start for the conquest season so if you didn't try hard and meme it tough luck. Basically your ratings overlapped. What makes me think about that is the start of the season had the 2v2 rule set but in conquest maps.Conspiracy theory 2: Arenanet is actually flagging bots(Gasp), so the matchmaker looks how many games are played and are they one after another, but the code for that flags everyone that has allot of games for all time and not those that have allot of games in small amount of time.Conspiracy theory 3: People with old accounts have corrupted data from changes to the matchmaker and how it worked.Conspiracy theory 4: People with old accounts still have the amber, sapphire or whatever it was old system tacked on and still working on the background along with the current matchmaker.Conspiracy theory 5: There is a rouge spaghetti code somewhere doing who knows what, but if they fix it the wall in WvW disappear and revenant crashes the game again.Here you go some regression tests for the QA, if anyone thinks of something to add, do so.Also this "There is no war in Ba Sing Se" doesn't fly with me, it is software and there is always something fucky with it.

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Whether these theories are confirmed or not is irrelevant, it does however go to show that ANet has botched their own systems to the extent of them hurting their players and the experience of said players in the game. It could be ignorance or it could be a sheer lack of competence, we don't know because they don't say anything. Its unfortunate, really, that things have gotten to this point where players, at the very least, feel like they are being punished for being loyal and playing this game for a long time, especially in the competitive modes. Some, like myself, have possibly even been with the Guild Wars franchise since GW1 released (15 years) and played in the competitive modes through that whole game and then done so in GW2, and speaking as someone who has done that to then see the differences in their approach, their ability, or inability in this case, to seemingly care about these modes is honestly disheartening. PvP was one of the best things about GW1 and GW2 and they have pretty much ditched it on the latter. I know this is one of the most casual friendly MMORPGs on the market, I know ANet wants to try attracting new players, I know ANet definitely wants to focus on their Living World and other PvE content (even though they also ditch numerous parts of PvE as well), but their game has the potential for so much more and to be improved so much if they just actually bothered to put some effort into resolving these problems.

And these things are why when Lost Ark comes out in NA/EU in 2021 I will completely remove myself from this game, that is unless EoD releases with some drastic changes and attentions to their game modes. Otherwise...I think I'll take the 3v3 TDM Ranked of Lost Ark over this. Also definitely has more interesting PvE.

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@"KryTiKaL.3125"

Then as an old GW1 player, you will totally understand the serious behind when I say:

"The old GW1 Random Arena queue somehow had more balanced match making than GW2 now when GW2 has a match making algorithm designed to make balanced matches."

Something is very very very wrong with that and that is why I wrote this thread, because that does not make any sense at all.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"KryTiKaL.3125"

Then as an old GW1 player, you will totally understand the serious behind when I say:

"The old GW1 Random Arena queue somehow had more balanced match making than GW2 now when GW2 has a match making algorithm designed to make balanced matches."

Something is very very very wrong with that and that is why I wrote this thread, because that does not make any sense at all.

It did. GW1 had its own problems for sure, literally every game does, but GW1 back then compared to GW2 now, no rose tinted glasses, didn't feel like it was punishing older or more experienced players like how GW2 does; at least in regards to competitive modes.

For lack of a better phrase or more eloquent words I can really only sum it up like this; It's completely fucked.

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Just chipping in real quick where I can

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Well let's get the usual accusations out of the way:

  • Win Trading - It is very real in 2020 but only certain groups of people really have incentive enough to do this and lately they aren't online much or so it seems. Maybe they are on alts throwing, maybe not. But usually a win trade is obvious to those who are aware, by right click viewing the account names of those in the game, and by watching the flow of the match. Lately these bad matches don't feel like win trading to me. Something else is going on.

I know you're just listing off the usual suspects here but Wintrading barely if at all even exists anymore. For the most part it died on Season 13 when DuoQ came back and Metagaming via DuoQ became the go-to way to fix matches because it isn't technically cheating and its free.

  • Low population - Yeah yeah yeah, ok. It does cause problems. But that doesn't explain why out of 20 historically great players, 50% of them continue on with generally the same match quality, but the other 50% suddenly are thrown into the g3 tribulation, playing 200+ rating lower than the other p2/p3 guys who are in every way their equals no better no worse. Something else is going on that hasn't really been figured out or talked about yet.

This and general alt throwing are problems perpetuated by merging Solos with Duos and teams, and that's probably a very common item with pretty much every problem Ranked has.

When it comes to alt throwing, you're much more likely to queue snipe somebody you don't like to the other team if you DuoQ because you've already lowered the chance of being matched with them by 2/5's(That's 40% to the mathematics crowd, that's right I did the math. B) )And that sounds like what's more likely to happen rather than sniping someone onto your team to throw the game for them, but I could be wrong there.

Low pop has always been an issue, but thanks to DuoQ the middle tier is pretty much dead and its so much worse. People got wise that there's no point to playing Ranked when it's impossible to grow due to dumb concepts. They were and are sandwiched between two extremes; one being gold players and bots who don't care and play exclusively for the rewards and the other being the top 1% of players stacked together in their unbeatable DuoQ's.

Like... If you're playing a game competitively to grow and get better at it; when you lose, you probably want to lose to a series of mistakes you can understand and maybe go back and analyze. It's why some people record all their games, in a bid to see what they did right or wrong. You don't want to feel like you lost to DuoQ, like you lost to a concept. It's barely any different from losing or winning to an AFKer because all there is to talk about is:"Oh we lost/won because one team was down a player"Or in this case "Oh we lost/won because one team had a high-level DuoQ and the other didn't."

DuoQ doesn't even need to be removed tho. If Ranked was split into Teams and Solos then most of these problems would be far less noticeable if not solved entirely.

  1. A straight up bug - I've often felt that my match making on my main account was bugged. For the older players out there, we know what it feels like, the difference, between a g3 match, a p1 match, a p2 match, a p3+ match. There are distinct shifts in how the matches feel and work. So keeping that in mind, understand that sometimes when my main would go on those very strange epic lose streaks down into g3 and then continue to lose until it was kitten near g2, it would very distinctly feel like every match even in bottom g3, it was placing me as if I were still p2+. I mean seriously, every game down in bottom g3 would be so unusually and unnecessarily difficult for absolutely no reason other than if you stop and think about it and it occurs to you that: "This level of difficulty would make sense if I was trying to yolo and were still 1600+, like this is EXACTLY what a 1600+ game feels like" yet I am nearly in g2 and it is still happening. The games don't feel win trade, they don't feel throw, they feel like it is still placing me as if I were 1600+. So I wonder if there is a bug that happens sometimes, where the algorithm is somehow not updating the player's shift in actual rating/MMR for some elongated amount of time, and indeed is placing a player with some previous rating/MMR. Obviously the leaderboards reflect rating gain/loss, but is the algorithm a different system than leaderboard updates? Could the algorithm hiccup and somehow the numbers inside the algorithm get stuck like this? It would honestly explain a lot. It would explain unholy lose streaks from p2/p3 down to nearly g2, and then suddenly all in 1 game, it flips and then the matches are so easy for the next 10-15 games all super easy, and the player shoots right back up to 1600+, and then it happens again. It would also explain occurrences where I know for a fact that I was losing A LOT more rating for losses mid season than I should have for being so low, and I was gaining half of what I should have for the rating I was at. <- This has definitely happened to me on a couple different occasions. Remember, I have nearly 20,000 games played here, I'm not ignorant. When it's mid season and I'm 90 games deep in g3 and I yolo queue beat a p2+ duo and only gain +9 but lose -17 if they beat me, something is wrong with that.

That's not a bug, I promise you. It's just the way rating works. The only thing that is going to determine how much you gain or lose is the effective ratings of everyone in your match.

You could be a g3 and beat a team with the top 2 best players in the game DuoQ'd on it, and you could(and probably would) gain like +9 and lose -18 for doing so.There might be 2 legends on the other team, but in order to make the matchmaking "fair" they're usually given like silver and low-gold teammates to make up for the rating difference between them and you which can wreck the average rating of the team(AKA the single factor that determines how much you win or lose at the end.)Bonus points if the legendary DuoQ is alting because that makes it even worse, and no; it does not take the highest rated player's rating, it treats both people in a DuoQ like two individual players.

  1. A new form of flat out cheating - Yes, I've wondered. Without without much explanation I'll say that some of these matches no longer look win trade or throw. Like there is visually not anyone on your team or the other team who appear to be purposely throwing at all, but rather it feels exactly like in an inhouse when too many strong players get stacked on one team. Some of these games are so ridiculously lopsided that even while viewing the leaderboards you ask yourself: "How did the algorithm even put me into this match? The other team is clearly stacked with much stronger players." Some of these matches lately feel like someone has administrative access to tinker with the match making, similar to custom arenas where the owner can just put people on whatever team he wants. So yeah, I wonder what's going on here.

Metagaming. Not actually cheating, not a punishable offense, but very boring. It's going outside the game to seek an advantage within, and the way it manifests in this game is good players never being matched against other good players.

DuoQing in the off-hours, DuoQing for numbers&matchmaking advantages, queue-dodging, alting, Out class-swapping people before a match starts. -All examples of Metagaming.It all sounds shady, doesn't it? It's actually so boring. Like cheating but not exactly cheating.

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“ I feel like these problems are simply not difficult to resolve,”

No, it’s not going to get resolved. And it will never be resolved. Not when you have random human factors involved. And sorry, but you are way off base here, much like the complaints about wvw matches... You will never have the same amount of players or the same amount of skilled players playing at the exact same times of every hour of every day, but that’s what you are expecting the devs to fix... The devs can’t code or patch out the randomness of when a player or players decide to log in to play, and you are misguided to expect a “not difficult” resolution from the devs when there isn’t a resolution to satisfy some players expectations of perfect matches every time they decide to play... Finally, I can guarantee that when some players win they think the matchmaker is good, and vice versa when they lose.

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@"Swagger.1459" said:“ I feel like these problems are simply not difficult to resolve,”

No, it’s not going to get resolved. And it will never be resolved. Not when you have random human factors involved. And sorry, but you are way off base here, much like the complaints about wvw matches... You will never have the same amount of players or the same amount of skilled players playing at the exact same times of every hour of every day, but that’s what you are expecting the devs to fix... The devs can’t code or patch out the randomness of when a player or players decide to log in to play, and you are misguided to expect a “not difficult” resolution from the devs when there isn’t a resolution to satisfy some players expectations of perfect matches every time they decide to play... Finally, I can guarantee that when some players win they think the matchmaker is good, and vice versa when they lose.

I feel like its disingenuous, and frankly "side-stepping" the issue, to suggest that people only see a problem with the matchmaking "when they are losing". For sure that is some of the cases, but I would argue that it doesn't account for all of them and it also ignores the idea that they notice this trend in the first place because they also win matches. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes level of deduction and perception to notice that you are completely running over the enemy team. Anyone with a good enough idea of how the game works, and who have potentially played it long enough, can identify if they are doing well in a match and can win it, or if they just have no possibility of doing so because of how the matchmaking has worked and they can't entirely carry their team in a game mode that is almost entirely centered on capture objectives.

The human factor is...a factor, but its not the whole one. Not to mention the devs have specifically stated, and even put it in patch notes in the past, that they have endeavored to alter the matchmaking so as to lessen queue times which has resulted in the search expanding the pool of players it looks for when building teams. Why else do you think Plat players show up in Gold 1 games? Population is a factor, but thats exactly why they changed the matchmaker to work that way, on top of other factors that @"Trevor Boyer.6524" pointed out as possibilities of heavy influence.

No one is expecting perfect matches, no one is expecting to win every match and if they do expect these things well then let them rage off the game because no matter the scenario they are going to do that anyway. What they are expecting is for the matchmaking to do what you expect matchmaking to do in a game that pulls from MMR or Elo type systems; to pair you with and against players of equal "rating" and "skill" on a consistent enough basis. Currently...GW2 does not do that in sPvP, and its not even recent its just getting more noticeable which means its probably getting worse as time goes on.

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The random human factors of when people play and what skills levels they are at the times of logging in to play, that the devs have zero control over, is the main factor.

Some of y’all want perfect matches every time you log in to play and that’s not gonna happen... But some of you expect that to happen and it’s unrealistic.

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@Swagger.1459 said:The random human factors of when people play and what skills levels they are at the times of logging in to play, that the devs have zero control over, is the main factor.

Some of y’all want perfect matches every time you log in to play and that’s not gonna happen... But some of you expect that to happen and it’s unrealistic.

However, over a large enough sample, even randomly things are normalized. This is why any large enough measurement ends up in a bell curve, not a potato curve. Sure, no one player have enough games to draw a conclusion, but most players have around the same experiences. And... sPvP as whole now does not have enough players. So potatoes it is.

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@Swagger.1459 said:The random human factors of when people play and what skills levels they are at the times of logging in to play, that the devs have zero control over, is the main factor.

Some of y’all want perfect matches every time you log in to play and that’s not gonna happen... But some of you expect that to happen and it’s unrealistic.

Again...that isn't what is being said or implied; that we want perfect matches every time we log in. Like I said, sure, there will be people who log in and just expect, for some weird reason, to win all of their matches and for them to go perfectly...but that is exactly why those people typically rage themselves off of the game either for the day or just the foreseeable future. I wouldn't say that those types of players make up the majority, nor even the higher end of the Divisions in Ranked or ATs, but yes...they do exist.

You seem to be stuck on this idea, a very big assumption, that players like myself or even @"Trevor Boyer.6524" want to log in and just have "perfect" matches and that is very, very far from the case. I would say that is likely true for many who still play PvP to some extent, in fact I'd argue that many don't even take it seriously enough to warrant the assumption you're making; that they expect perfect matches when they log in. I think more often than not they are logging in and expecting to get a string of losses because of how things are working currently, but many try to, at the very least, have fun regardless. Thats how bad it has gotten, their expectations are that low for this game that they queue up and don't expect the matchmaking to actually, y'know, matchmake properly. I've actually seen several people on these forums just suggest to others whom asking about Ranked that they shouldn't take it very seriously, to just try and have fun with the PvP and not worry too much about climbing or anything.

Thats why I feel like your assumption of the circumstances kind of gets thrown out the window.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:The random human factors of when people play and what skills levels they are at the times of logging in to play, that the devs have zero control over, is the main factor.

Some of y’all want perfect matches every time you log in to play and that’s not gonna happen... But some of you expect that to happen and it’s unrealistic.

Again...that isn't what is being said or implied; that we want perfect matches every time we log in. Like I said, sure, there will be people who log in and just expect, for some weird reason, to win all of their matches and for them to go perfectly...but that is exactly why those people typically rage
themselves
off of the game either for the day or just the foreseeable future. I wouldn't say that those types of players make up the majority, nor even the higher end of the Divisions in Ranked or ATs, but yes...they do exist.

You seem to be stuck on this idea, a very big assumption, that players like myself or even @"Trevor Boyer.6524" want to log in and just have "perfect" matches and that is very, very far from the case. I would say that is likely true for many who still play PvP to some extent, in fact I'd argue that many don't even take it seriously enough to warrant the assumption you're making; that they expect perfect matches when they log in. I think more often than not they are logging in and expecting to get a string of losses because of how things are working currently, but many try to, at the very least, have fun regardless. Thats how bad it has gotten, their expectations are
that
low for this game that they queue up and don't expect the matchmaking to actually, y'know, matchmake properly. I've actually seen several people on these forums just suggest to others whom asking about Ranked that they shouldn't take it very seriously, to just try and have fun with the PvP and not worry too much about climbing or anything.

Thats why I feel like your assumption of the circumstances kind of gets thrown out the window.

@Swagger.1459 saying that "people are expecting perfect match making" is kind of a convoluted response that changes the goal posts of what is actually being said here.

What is being said that has been said several several times over in a dozen threads within the past couple weeks even, is that people want to know why the match making doesn't even make sense anymore. They want to know why this is happening:

  • win 500 to 100 where the game is so easy they could have AFK'd and still won
  • Then lose 100 to 500 where the game was so hard that it felt like nothing they did even mattered
  • and then go on a lose streak from p2 to gold 3 where every single match is beyond unreasonably difficult
  • and then turn around and go on a win streak to p2 where every match is so easy that it confuses them as to why it is even happening
  • and then a lose streak back down into bottom gold 3 again where it feels like the algorithm is purposely situating win and lose situations, as if it were actually avoiding making balanced matches all together.

^ That's what people are inquiring about. No one is expecting perfect match making, but they are asking for an attempt to fix the obviously broken as hell match making that we are currently experiencing.

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I can confirm literally EVERYTHING you said in the OP is true. I am forever stuck in gold3/plat1 because I get put in the most uneven, unfair, matches possible. I am ALWAYS matched with people in their placements put against Top10 player duo's while their teammates are not only better than mine, they are also better than me, and +300-400 rating to me.

Anytime I get near plat, I am IMMEDIATELY put into these completely unwinnable games against top10 duo's and go on lose streaks until I am nearly gold2.

I was duoing with a legend(In HoT he was legend every single season and always plat2+ in PoF) player, The first day we played together I got to mid plat immediately, yet had a NEGATIVE win rate(lol?). We kept getting good teammates and I thought queueing on the weekends was good and matchmaking was better. We stayed in mid plat after playing 30+ games that day easily.

Next 3 days we queue together , we would consistently need to be 2vs1ing all game long to even come remotely close to winning - and even then, we'd win by 5-40 points. Sometimes we'd be steam rolling every team fight while I'm decapping and holding far all game long, yet we're down 200 points and we have no idea why.

Every single teammate we got, was 100% guaranteed to do nothing but res, and immediately die and feed the second they left spawn. They never once team fought, ressed, or contributed anything to any fight. If we died a single time in any game, it was GG. We had to never die, not once, because our teammates would die over TWENTY times combined per match(you can tell if you die once and then look at % of team deaths, which we intentionally would do at the end of matches to see our teammates death numbers). It was complete insanity.

My friend quit the game because he simply didn't find it fun having to carry such hard games.

BTW when I was on EU I was 1550 and played against a 1900(rank1) duo at the time, and lost 29 rating. I was queued solo. Explain that, please.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:I can confirm literally EVERYTHING you said in the OP is true. I am forever stuck in gold3/plat1 because I get put in the most uneven, unfair, matches possible. I am ALWAYS matched with people in their placements put against Top10 player duo's while their teammates are not only better than mine, they are also better than me, and +300-400 rating to me.

Anytime I get near plat, I am IMMEDIATELY put into these completely unwinnable games against top10 duo's and go on lose streaks until I am nearly gold2.

I was duoing with a legend(In HoT he was legend and always plat2+ in PoF) player and we would consistently need to be 2vs1ing all game long to even come remotely close to winning - and even then, we'd win by 5-40 points. Sometimes we'd be steam rolling every team fight wihle I'm decapping and holding far all game long, yet we're down 200 points and we have no idea why.

Every single teammate we got, was 100% guaranteed to do nothing but res, and immediately die and feed the second they left spawn. They never once team fought, ressed, or contributed anything to any fight. If we died a single time in any game, it was GG. We had to never die, not once, because our teammates would die over TWENTY times combined per match(you can tell if you die once and then look at % of team deaths, which we intentionally would do at the end of matches to see our teammates death numbers). It was complete insanity.

My friend quit the game because he simply didn't find it fun having to carry such hard games.

The real kicker is, when you make an alt account and start playing it well into 200 games played, and that same situation never happens to the alt, and you're playing like 200 rating higher than on your main. And it's that moment when you realize "I am the same person on two different accounts, yet the match maker is not adjusting and settling my true skill level, which it should be doing if it was balanced, I should be playing at the same rating margins on each account, yet the alt is always getting easier matches forever" and it occurs to you truly, that not all accounts are being treated equally for whatever reason that is within the algorithm.

I'm serious, go try it out. I've have about half a dozen players try the same thing and have the same exact results.

Let me ask you, how old is your account, what was the birth year, and how many total games do you have played?

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:I can confirm literally EVERYTHING you said in the OP is true. I am forever stuck in gold3/plat1 because I get put in the most uneven, unfair, matches possible. I am ALWAYS matched with people in their placements put against Top10 player duo's while their teammates are not only better than mine, they are also better than me, and +300-400 rating to me.

Anytime I get near plat, I am IMMEDIATELY put into these completely unwinnable games against top10 duo's and go on lose streaks until I am nearly gold2.

I was duoing with a legend(In HoT he was legend and always plat2+ in PoF) player and we would consistently need to be 2vs1ing all game long to even come remotely close to winning - and even then, we'd win by 5-40 points. Sometimes we'd be steam rolling every team fight wihle I'm decapping and holding far all game long, yet we're down 200 points and we have no idea why.

Every single teammate we got, was 100% guaranteed to do nothing but res, and immediately die and feed the second they left spawn. They never once team fought, ressed, or contributed anything to any fight. If we died a single time in any game, it was GG. We had to never die, not once, because our teammates would die over TWENTY times combined per match(you can tell if you die once and then look at % of team deaths, which we intentionally would do at the end of matches to see our teammates death numbers). It was complete insanity.

My friend quit the game because he simply didn't find it fun having to carry such hard games.

The real kicker is, when you make an alt account and start playing it well into 200 games played, and that same situation never happens to the alt, and you're playing like 200 rating higher than on your main. And it's that moment when you realize "I am the same person on two different accounts, yet the match maker is not adjusting and settling my true skill level, which it should be doing if it was balanced, I should be playing at the same rating margins on each account, yet the alt is always getting easier matches forever" and it occurs to you truly, that not all accounts are being treated equally for whatever reason that is within the algorithm.

I'm serious, go try it out. I've have about half a dozen players try the same thing and have the same exact results.

Let me ask you, how old is your account, what was the birth year, and how many total games do you have played?

My account is day2 of GW2 release and has 8 year old bday. I have a bit over 1k total games played. I played a lot in Vanilla but never much after that until recently.

My alt account on EU gets much better games.

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@Shiyo.3578 Yeah see, just about every single player whom I've talked with that reports really unusual match making patterns that lead to really weird win & lose streaks and being like permanently stuck in this weird pattern, are all people who own first month release accounts. I mean seriously, I'm not just saying this. Even my main account is a first day release birth date.

I'm curious as to who else is experiencing these patterns and what their account birth dates are. I am also curious as to if any first month birth dates claim to be experiencing very normal match making that isn't volatile at all.

I think it's an important piece to the puzzle of figuring out what is going on here. I'm talking account birth dates, total games played, and a summary of that account's match making patterns. I'm really starting to believe that something went buggy somewhere along the lines with older accounts.

But I dunno, it could have absolutely nothing to do with it in the end.

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I am torn between whether you're right or I just got worse. I started playing PvP about 2 years ago and got my gold2 after first 10 matches. After around 10 games I was 7 points from plat1 and then the season ended - I still didn't know how seasons worked, I was just learning. The next season I played I also ended up in gold 3 the whole season, reaching plat1 two or three times for a shorter period. The next two seasons was same story, I would always end up in high gold3 and games felt really nice, it was almost never completely one-sided match and I had loads of fun. Then I took a break from PvP and partly from GW2 for few months. I later came back, played around 50 unranked games to get my groove back, I watched some pvp streamers to get a better hang of what changed etc. I decided to play out the first 10 games to see where it lands me and I expected low gold1 or high silver3 atleast. I got placed in high silver1 after winning 6 out of 10 games. It then took me around 80 games to reach 1200 rating and it was a horrible experience, my teams would either win hard or lose hard. It felt like I was getting people who just play pvp for dailies in my team and actual pvpers in enemy team. There were too many games where I won games 4v5 and then have no chance of reaching even 100 points in a game playing 5v5. So I reached low gold1 and then I stayed there balancing between s3 and g1. Games don't feel fun anymore like they used to when I first started playing pvp. And it's hard for me to tell if it's my fault - I got worse - or something is actually going on there. It's probably a l2p issue but since you bring this topic up, I thought I would share my story.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:The random human factors of when people play and what skills levels they are at the times of logging in to play, that the devs have zero control over, is the main factor.

Some of y’all want perfect matches every time you log in to play and that’s not gonna happen... But some of you expect that to happen and it’s unrealistic.

Again...that isn't what is being said or implied; that we want perfect matches every time we log in. Like I said, sure, there will be people who log in and just expect, for some weird reason, to win all of their matches and for them to go perfectly...but that is exactly why those people typically rage
themselves
off of the game either for the day or just the foreseeable future. I wouldn't say that those types of players make up the majority, nor even the higher end of the Divisions in Ranked or ATs, but yes...they do exist.

You seem to be stuck on this idea, a very big assumption, that players like myself or even @Trevor Boyer.6524 want to log in and just have "perfect" matches and that is very, very far from the case. I would say that is likely true for many who still play PvP to some extent, in fact I'd argue that many don't even take it seriously enough to warrant the assumption you're making; that they expect perfect matches when they log in. I think more often than not they are logging in and expecting to get a string of losses because of how things are working currently, but many try to, at the very least, have fun regardless. Thats how bad it has gotten, their expectations are
that
low for this game that they queue up and don't expect the matchmaking to actually, y'know, matchmake properly. I've actually seen several people on these forums just suggest to others whom asking about Ranked that they shouldn't take it very seriously, to just try and have fun with the PvP and not worry too much about climbing or anything.

Thats why I feel like your assumption of the circumstances kind of gets thrown out the window.

@Swagger.1459 saying that "people are expecting perfect match making" is kind of a convoluted response that changes the goal posts of what is actually being said here.

What is being said that has been said several several times over in a dozen threads within the past couple weeks even, is that people want to know why the match making doesn't even make sense anymore. They want to know why this is happening:
  • win 500 to 100 where the game is so easy they could have AFK'd and still won
  • Then lose 100 to 500 where the game was so hard that it felt like nothing they did even mattered
  • and then go on a lose streak from p2 to gold 3 where every single match is beyond unreasonably difficult
  • and then turn around and go on a win streak to p2 where every match is so easy that it confuses them as to why it is even happening
  • and then a lose streak back down into bottom gold 3 again where it feels like the algorithm is purposely situating win and lose situations, as if it were actually avoiding making balanced matches all together.

^ That's what people are inquiring about. No one is expecting perfect match making, but they are asking for an attempt to fix the obviously broken as hell match making that we are currently experiencing.

No, not “convoluted”, it’s pretty straight forward. It’s easy to see the pattern of complaints... Player get on teams that win and the matchmaker is good. Player get on teams that lose and the matchmaker is bad. Player thinks or knows they are good and assumes they should win most of the time, and if that doesn’t happen then it’s mostly the fault of the matchmaker and the devs should fix it...

Regardless of time of play you get a mixed bag of amounts of players and skill levels. Or do you think that the exact same amount of players of the exact same skill levels are on 24/7 for the matchmaker to perfectly sort out teams that satisfy your preferred match results?

The matchmaker has to sort in real time based off of the random amounts of players and skill levels that are queuing up... Devs can’t fix when people play, how good they are, what profession they use, how they play during a match... There are a ton of factors the devs don’t have control over and you think it’s some easy fix.

For 2 decades I’ve played a number of games competitively as a support player, and in GW2 I’ve seen the least competitive mindsets overall. Instead of blaming the devs, blaming other players, and assuming there is some magical fix for all the random human factors, I suggest working on your personal pvp skills and get a team of friends to play and practice with to increase the odds of winning.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:The random human factors of when people play and what skills levels they are at the times of logging in to play, that the devs have zero control over, is the main factor.

Some of y’all want perfect matches every time you log in to play and that’s not gonna happen... But some of you expect that to happen and it’s unrealistic.

Again...that isn't what is being said or implied; that we want perfect matches every time we log in. Like I said, sure, there will be people who log in and just expect, for some weird reason, to win all of their matches and for them to go perfectly...but that is exactly why those people typically rage
themselves
off of the game either for the day or just the foreseeable future. I wouldn't say that those types of players make up the majority, nor even the higher end of the Divisions in Ranked or ATs, but yes...they do exist.

You seem to be stuck on this idea, a very big assumption, that players like myself or even @Trevor Boyer.6524 want to log in and just have "perfect" matches and that is very, very far from the case. I would say that is likely true for many who still play PvP to some extent, in fact I'd argue that many don't even take it seriously enough to warrant the assumption you're making; that they expect perfect matches when they log in. I think more often than not they are logging in and expecting to get a string of losses because of how things are working currently, but many try to, at the very least, have fun regardless. Thats how bad it has gotten, their expectations are
that
low for this game that they queue up and don't expect the matchmaking to actually, y'know, matchmake properly. I've actually seen several people on these forums just suggest to others whom asking about Ranked that they shouldn't take it very seriously, to just try and have fun with the PvP and not worry too much about climbing or anything.

Thats why I feel like your assumption of the circumstances kind of gets thrown out the window.

@Swagger.1459 saying that "people are expecting perfect match making" is kind of a convoluted response that changes the goal posts of what is actually being said here.

What is being said that has been said several several times over in a dozen threads within the past couple weeks even, is that people want to know why the match making doesn't even make sense anymore. They want to know why this is happening:
  • win 500 to 100 where the game is so easy they could have AFK'd and still won
  • Then lose 100 to 500 where the game was so hard that it felt like nothing they did even mattered
  • and then go on a lose streak from p2 to gold 3 where every single match is beyond unreasonably difficult
  • and then turn around and go on a win streak to p2 where every match is so easy that it confuses them as to why it is even happening
  • and then a lose streak back down into bottom gold 3 again where it feels like the algorithm is purposely situating win and lose situations, as if it were actually avoiding making balanced matches all together.

^ That's what people are inquiring about. No one is expecting perfect match making, but they are asking for an attempt to fix the obviously broken as hell match making that we are currently experiencing.

No, not “convoluted”, it’s pretty straight forward. It’s easy to see the pattern of complaints... Player get on teams that win and the matchmaker is good. Player get on teams that lose and the matchmaker is bad. Player thinks or knows they are good and assumes they should win most of the time, and if that doesn’t happen then it’s mostly the fault of the matchmaker and the devs should fix it...

Regardless of time of play you get a mixed bag of amounts of players and skill levels. Or do you think that the exact same amount of players of the exact same skill levels are on 24/7 for the matchmaker to perfectly sort out teams that satisfy your preferred match results?

The matchmaker has to sort in real time based off of the random amounts of players and skill levels that are queuing up... Devs can’t fix when people play, how good they are, what profession they use, how they play during a match... There are a ton of factors the devs don’t have control over and you think it’s some easy fix.

For 2 decades I’ve played a number of games competitively as a support player, and in GW2 I’ve seen the least competitive mindsets overall. Instead of blaming the devs, blaming other players, and assuming there is some magical fix for all the random human factors, I suggest working on your personal pvp skills and get a team of friends to play and practice with to increase the odds of winning.

Dude it's like you're not actually reading anything at all, or haven't since about 2018.

There are very real problems with the match maker right now and not once have I heard a single player say "Hey I think the match maker is good I'm winning" or say anything else that would even begin to encourage such an idea. People during wins right now are still baffled because match flow lately is like: Win a game 500 to 100, turn around lose a game 100 to 500, then win again 500 to 100. No one is praising any of this, they're wondering why every match is lopsided win or lose, and why it would seem that the match maker is completely avoiding balanced matches.

And furthermore no one believes there are magical fixes, which is the point of me writing this thread, to get community feedback to get a better idea of exactly where the problem or problems actually are right now. Then and then only, maybe, the community could toss Arenanet some real suggestions.

Seriously though man, this isn't idle complaint lately. If you haven't logged in to play in awhile, go do it and run about 10 games in ranked. Then we'll see if you come back here feeling the same way.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:The random human factors of when people play and what skills levels they are at the times of logging in to play, that the devs have zero control over, is the main factor.

Some of y’all want perfect matches every time you log in to play and that’s not gonna happen... But some of you expect that to happen and it’s unrealistic.

Again...that isn't what is being said or implied; that we want perfect matches every time we log in. Like I said, sure, there will be people who log in and just expect, for some weird reason, to win all of their matches and for them to go perfectly...but that is exactly why those people typically rage
themselves
off of the game either for the day or just the foreseeable future. I wouldn't say that those types of players make up the majority, nor even the higher end of the Divisions in Ranked or ATs, but yes...they do exist.

You seem to be stuck on this idea, a very big assumption, that players like myself or even @Trevor Boyer.6524 want to log in and just have "perfect" matches and that is very, very far from the case. I would say that is likely true for many who still play PvP to some extent, in fact I'd argue that many don't even take it seriously enough to warrant the assumption you're making; that they expect perfect matches when they log in. I think more often than not they are logging in and expecting to get a string of losses because of how things are working currently, but many try to, at the very least, have fun regardless. Thats how bad it has gotten, their expectations are
that
low for this game that they queue up and don't expect the matchmaking to actually, y'know, matchmake properly. I've actually seen several people on these forums just suggest to others whom asking about Ranked that they shouldn't take it very seriously, to just try and have fun with the PvP and not worry too much about climbing or anything.

Thats why I feel like your assumption of the circumstances kind of gets thrown out the window.

@Swagger.1459 saying that "people are expecting perfect match making" is kind of a convoluted response that changes the goal posts of what is actually being said here.

What is being said that has been said several several times over in a dozen threads within the past couple weeks even, is that people want to know why the match making doesn't even make sense anymore. They want to know why this is happening:
  • win 500 to 100 where the game is so easy they could have AFK'd and still won
  • Then lose 100 to 500 where the game was so hard that it felt like nothing they did even mattered
  • and then go on a lose streak from p2 to gold 3 where every single match is beyond unreasonably difficult
  • and then turn around and go on a win streak to p2 where every match is so easy that it confuses them as to why it is even happening
  • and then a lose streak back down into bottom gold 3 again where it feels like the algorithm is purposely situating win and lose situations, as if it were actually avoiding making balanced matches all together.

^ That's what people are inquiring about. No one is expecting perfect match making, but they are asking for an attempt to fix the obviously broken as hell match making that we are currently experiencing.

No, not “convoluted”, it’s pretty straight forward. It’s easy to see the pattern of complaints... Player get on teams that win and the matchmaker is good. Player get on teams that lose and the matchmaker is bad. Player thinks or knows they are good and assumes they should win most of the time, and if that doesn’t happen then it’s mostly the fault of the matchmaker and the devs should fix it...

Regardless of time of play you get a mixed bag of amounts of players and skill levels. Or do you think that the exact same amount of players of the exact same skill levels are on 24/7 for the matchmaker to perfectly sort out teams that satisfy your preferred match results?

The matchmaker has to sort in real time based off of the random amounts of players and skill levels that are queuing up... Devs can’t fix when people play, how good they are, what profession they use, how they play during a match... There are a ton of factors the devs don’t have control over and you think it’s some easy fix.

For 2 decades I’ve played a number of games competitively as a support player, and in GW2 I’ve seen the least competitive mindsets overall. Instead of blaming the devs, blaming other players, and assuming there is some magical fix for all the random human factors, I suggest working on your personal pvp skills and get a team of friends to play and practice with to increase the odds of winning.

Dude it's like you're not actually reading anything at all, or haven't since about 2018.

There are very real problems with the match maker right now and not once have I heard a single player say "Hey I think the match maker is good I'm winning" or say anything else that would even begin to encourage such an idea. People during wins right now are still baffled because match flow lately is like: Win a game 500 to 100, turn around lose a game 100 to 500, then win again 500 to 100. No one is praising any of this, they're wondering why every match is lopsided win or lose, and why it would seem that the match maker is completely avoiding balanced matches.

And furthermore no one believes there are magical fixes, which is the point of me writing this thread, to get community feedback to get a better idea of exactly where the problem or problems actually are right now. Then and then only, maybe, the community could toss Arenanet some real suggestions.

Seriously though man, this isn't idle complaint lately. If you haven't logged in to play in awhile, go do it and run about 10 games in ranked. Then we'll see if you come back here feeling the same way.

You, indeed, believe in a magical fix...

“I feel like these problems are simply not difficult to resolve“

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:The random human factors of when people play and what skills levels they are at the times of logging in to play, that the devs have zero control over, is the main factor.

Some of y’all want perfect matches every time you log in to play and that’s not gonna happen... But some of you expect that to happen and it’s unrealistic.

Again...that isn't what is being said or implied; that we want perfect matches every time we log in. Like I said, sure, there will be people who log in and just expect, for some weird reason, to win all of their matches and for them to go perfectly...but that is exactly why those people typically rage
themselves
off of the game either for the day or just the foreseeable future. I wouldn't say that those types of players make up the majority, nor even the higher end of the Divisions in Ranked or ATs, but yes...they do exist.

You seem to be stuck on this idea, a very big assumption, that players like myself or even @Trevor Boyer.6524 want to log in and just have "perfect" matches and that is very, very far from the case. I would say that is likely true for many who still play PvP to some extent, in fact I'd argue that many don't even take it seriously enough to warrant the assumption you're making; that they expect perfect matches when they log in. I think more often than not they are logging in and expecting to get a string of losses because of how things are working currently, but many try to, at the very least, have fun regardless. Thats how bad it has gotten, their expectations are
that
low for this game that they queue up and don't expect the matchmaking to actually, y'know, matchmake properly. I've actually seen several people on these forums just suggest to others whom asking about Ranked that they shouldn't take it very seriously, to just try and have fun with the PvP and not worry too much about climbing or anything.

Thats why I feel like your assumption of the circumstances kind of gets thrown out the window.

@Swagger.1459 saying that "people are expecting perfect match making" is kind of a convoluted response that changes the goal posts of what is actually being said here.

What is being said that has been said several several times over in a dozen threads within the past couple weeks even, is that people want to know why the match making doesn't even make sense anymore. They want to know why this is happening:
  • win 500 to 100 where the game is so easy they could have AFK'd and still won
  • Then lose 100 to 500 where the game was so hard that it felt like nothing they did even mattered
  • and then go on a lose streak from p2 to gold 3 where every single match is beyond unreasonably difficult
  • and then turn around and go on a win streak to p2 where every match is so easy that it confuses them as to why it is even happening
  • and then a lose streak back down into bottom gold 3 again where it feels like the algorithm is purposely situating win and lose situations, as if it were actually avoiding making balanced matches all together.

^ That's what people are inquiring about. No one is expecting perfect match making, but they are asking for an attempt to fix the obviously broken as hell match making that we are currently experiencing.

No, not “convoluted”, it’s pretty straight forward. It’s easy to see the pattern of complaints... Player get on teams that win and the matchmaker is good. Player get on teams that lose and the matchmaker is bad. Player thinks or knows they are good and assumes they should win most of the time, and if that doesn’t happen then it’s mostly the fault of the matchmaker and the devs should fix it...

Regardless of time of play you get a mixed bag of amounts of players and skill levels. Or do you think that the exact same amount of players of the exact same skill levels are on 24/7 for the matchmaker to perfectly sort out teams that satisfy your preferred match results?

The matchmaker has to sort in real time based off of the random amounts of players and skill levels that are queuing up... Devs can’t fix when people play, how good they are, what profession they use, how they play during a match... There are a ton of factors the devs don’t have control over and you think it’s some easy fix.

For 2 decades I’ve played a number of games competitively as a support player, and in GW2 I’ve seen the least competitive mindsets overall. Instead of blaming the devs, blaming other players, and assuming there is some magical fix for all the random human factors, I suggest working on your personal pvp skills and get a team of friends to play and practice with to increase the odds of winning.

Dude it's like you're not actually reading anything at all, or haven't since about 2018.

There are very real problems with the match maker right now and not once have I heard a single player say "Hey I think the match maker is good I'm winning" or say anything else that would even begin to encourage such an idea. People during wins right now are still baffled because match flow lately is like: Win a game 500 to 100, turn around lose a game 100 to 500, then win again 500 to 100. No one is praising any of this, they're wondering why every match is lopsided win or lose, and why it would seem that the match maker is completely avoiding balanced matches.

And furthermore no one believes there are magical fixes, which is the point of me writing this thread, to get community feedback to get a better idea of exactly where the problem or problems actually are right now. Then and then only, maybe, the community could toss Arenanet some real suggestions.

Seriously though man, this isn't idle complaint lately. If you haven't logged in to play in awhile, go do it and run about 10 games in ranked. Then we'll see if you come back here feeling the same way.

You, indeed, believe in a magical fix...

“I feel like these problems are simply not difficult to resolve“

By saying "magic fix" you imply magic as being something that isn't real that people only believe in.

My friend there is a big difference between hoping to fix the impossible and fixing the neglected.

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