One of the MAJOR reasons Necros is always ends up bad.... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

One of the MAJOR reasons Necros is always ends up bad....

Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 20, 2017 in Necromancer

WEAPONS !

i mean think about it.

EVERY single class out there have Multiple not one but multiple weapons that have and give Mechanics and Extras to the classes...
Like for example...

Blocks , tons of different boons , Mobility , Knocks/Stuns , Bubbles group utilities and some other stuff etcetcetc and some of them Borderline spammable

then look at the Necro weapons....
The only thing ALL the weapons do is DMG....... thats it..... DMG ...............
yes GS have a Single easily avoidable Pull on a half year CD.......... yaaaaaaaaaay...

Seriously now Necros have the Most Underwhelming weapons EVER.....

Necros lack ALLOT of stuff and with some weapon reworks Devs could give them the tools to make them actually Work for once instead of allways relying on"bugs" and Stacking to be effective at annything......

Tldr:
Necromancer Weapons need a rework almost ALL of them needs something extra....

Necros Relying too much on their Trait Lines because Weapons Don't offer anything to the Class... so When necro traits get targeted by Nerfs and Changes Necros Get hurt the Most and always Breaks the class in some way......

Comments

  • not really sure what you are suggesting here Z, Torch gives us a good condi weapon to pair with Scepter. What necro needs is a power weapon, because Strike dmg is based off of the power from the weapon dmg and unlike base necro doesn't get condi durration from Scepter cuz you aren't in shroud. Its almost like they forgot that part when they put 2 second durrations on the Torment. I mean if Scepter affected the torment it would be a max 6 second torment and now its maybe balanced, but a max 4 second torment is laughable. Won't matter anyway cuz in most game modes it gets cleared after 1-2 seconds. So for PVE you don't need the CC / Blocks you need more Condies, and Torch provides. For PVP / WvW you need power to increase shade strikes, and not short range condies, but no power weapon is going to compete with staff anyway it is sitting at the top of the food chain winning all day long as a 5 target aoe machine. So what you want from Devs with this spec and weapons? We aren't warriors. Engies are in much worse shape. if you don't believe me go look at what options you have to pair with that Mele sword they got.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Meetshield.1756 said:
    Engies are in much worse shape. if you don't believe me go look at what options you have to pair with that Mele sword they got.

    They should have been given the Spellbreaker treatment and got dual swords.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Just because a child wants candi, doesn't mean its good for them. You guys are too caught up in Necro to see the bigger picture. Warriors are all about weapons. Necros have utilities / minions / shroud, and Conditions applied in AOE fashion to be their reward for having bad weapons. Honestly warriors should be pissed people even get weapons with new elite specs. And Berzerker got totally shafted by being given a Torch LOL. This entire post is just ignored by dev's as a joke. Necro needs trait Lines to be organized by Function 100 million times more than they need new weapons. Weapons would be cool but then the new wears off and everyone runs the same stuff and you got a bunch of weapons filling up your inventory doing no good.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Necromancer is an offensive class.

    Boon corrupts
    Condition transfers
    Blinds
    Vulnerability
    Lots of non-projectile ranged attacks
    Weakness

    If none of this stuff interests you than perhaps you should find a class that does interest you.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Meetshield.1756 said:
    Engies are in much worse shape. if you don't believe me go look at what options you have to pair with that Mele sword they got.

    They should have been given the Spellbreaker treatment and got dual swords.

    They gave us dual daggers because they didn't really change how warrior plays(we still got about the fewest skills added to the game even with the extra weapon), about the only 2 mechanics we got were a parry and boon stripping which other than our bubble necro does about 10x better.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Meetshield.1756 said:
    Engies are in much worse shape. if you don't believe me go look at what options you have to pair with that Mele sword they got.

    They should have been given the Spellbreaker treatment and got dual swords.

    They gave us dual daggers because they didn't really change how warrior plays(we still got about the fewest skills added to the game even with the extra weapon), about the only 2 mechanics we got were a parry and boon stripping which other than our bubble necro does about 10x better.

    Dual swords on an Engi, not Necro.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Red Haired Savage.5430Red Haired Savage.5430 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Meetshield.1756 said:
    Engies are in much worse shape. if you don't believe me go look at what options you have to pair with that Mele sword they got.

    They should have been given the Spellbreaker treatment and got dual swords.

    They gave us dual daggers because they didn't really change how warrior plays(we still got about the fewest skills added to the game even with the extra weapon), about the only 2 mechanics we got were a parry and boon stripping which other than our bubble necro does about 10x better.

    Dual swords on an Engi, not Necro.

    I know, but engi got the forge which gave them 5 new skills (plus their sword skills) while we warriors just got an f2 skill...

    Edit: spelling

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Exqq.7451Exqq.7451 Member ✭✭✭

    We do not need weapon selection. We need a few weapons that accomplish the tasks needed.

  • @Exqq.7451 said:
    We do not need weapon selection. We need a few weapons that accomplish the tasks needed.

    I'll agree to that some of your weapons just feel like they don't quite know if they want to be condi or power.

    #nornmodeisbestmode

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Necromancer is an offensive class.

    Boon corrupts
    Condition transfers
    Blinds
    Vulnerability
    Lots of non-projectile ranged attacks
    Weakness

    If none of this stuff interests you than perhaps you should find a class that does interest you.

    If we are such a offensive class please explain why all our weapon skills hit for significantly less damage than our peers.

    Also FYI thieves, revs, guardians, rangers, mesmers, and some ele builds have significantly better blind access that us.
    Also FYI warriors, engis, and power mesmers have better vulnerability application than us.
    Also FYI we only have 1 weapon skill, 1 utility, and 1 trait that apply weakness.

    Necromancer only saving grace is boon corrupt.

    And it's boon corrupts that give easy access to blind, weakness and vulnverability...

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Necromancer is an offensive class.

    Boon corrupts
    Condition transfers
    Blinds
    Vulnerability
    Lots of non-projectile ranged attacks
    Weakness

    If none of this stuff interests you than perhaps you should find a class that does interest you.

    other classes can also do those not fully everything at once like the necro but can do all those...

    while they can combo these with Immense mobility and immunes and the other billions of stuff they have on top of it....

    without these extra stuff we never be competitive......
    because the moment we are competitive in that ONE thing we are good at we are deemed OP and nerfed to the other classes level or even nerfed under them... the difference is they Also have these extra stuff on top of it while we are egual of worse in the offensive department.......

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Necromancer is an offensive class.

    Boon corrupts
    Condition transfers
    Blinds
    Vulnerability
    Lots of non-projectile ranged attacks
    Weakness

    If none of this stuff interests you than perhaps you should find a class that does interest you.

    other classes can also do those not fully everything at once like the necro but can do all those...

    while they can combo these with Immense mobility and immunes and the other billions of stuff they have on top of it....

    without these extra stuff we never be competitive......
    because the moment we are competitive in that ONE thing we are good at we are deemed OP and nerfed to the other classes level or even nerfed under them... the difference is they Also have these extra stuff on top of it while we are egual of worse in the offensive department.......

    It is just as much as HOW the attacks are delivered.
    Probably the best skill necromancers have is Unholy Feast and I would like to think I wouldn't need to explain why but there are others who just don't get it.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • nekretaal.6485nekretaal.6485 Member ✭✭✭

    OP is of course right.

    The problem is weapons. The problem has always been the weapons. They are too low damage for the little utility they have. And the utility they have is on long cooldown. There's Not a lot of AoE or cleave either. Focus, in particular could use a total rework.

    But, if one of the developers responded to this thread, they might say that the necromancer weapons do generate life force, and so we should compare Necromancer weapons to, for example, Mesmer weapons: both produce resources that power the class' F abilities.

    The problem with that argument is that, even if it's right (it's not), life force is boring. It's just a meaningless number on a screen that combines with cool downs to gate abilities. I would like to have weapons that do something meaningful and not just remove gates. (And removing the gates on abilities isn't that great when the shrouds only have less damage and less Cc than the weapons to offer).

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:
    WEAPONS !

    i mean think about it.

    EVERY single class out there have Multiple not one but multiple weapons that have and give Mechanics and Extras to the classes...
    Like for example...

    Blocks , tons of different boons , Mobility , Knocks/Stuns , Bubbles group utilities and some other stuff etcetcetc and some of them Borderline spammable

    then look at the Necro weapons....
    The only thing ALL the weapons do is DMG....... thats it..... DMG ...............
    yes GS have a Single easily avoidable Pull on a half year CD.......... yaaaaaaaaaay...

    Greatsword offers boon corrupt and on a relatively good cd, doesn't that count?
    Also if you got scepter dagger number 4 slot for dagger is speed up which was useful for running around if you didn't take 25% speed sigil.
    And with torch you got massive condi corrupting power with sand shroud.I mean seriously:That is some heavy duty condi corrupting.Before path of fire, you were forced to take well and also signet and staff, and now you have a really useful condi corrupt.

    Seriously now Necros have the Most Underwhelming weapons EVER.....

    Necros lack ALLOT of stuff and with some weapon reworks Devs could give them the tools to make them actually Work for once instead of allways relying on"bugs" and Stacking to be effective at annything......

    Tldr:
    Necromancer Weapons need a rework almost ALL of them needs something extra....

    Necros Relying too much on their Trait Lines because Weapons Don't offer anything to the Class... so When necro traits get targeted by Nerfs and Changes Necros Get hurt the Most and always Breaks the class in some way......

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's not weapons ... it's the core class concept of Shroud; it's flawed. It doesn't add to the class, it simply replaces it for a very short time.

  • ZyniX.3589ZyniX.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Justine.6351 said:

    And it's boon corrupts that give easy access to blind, weakness and vulnverability...

    Irrelevant for pve.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    It's not weapons ... it's the core class concept of Shroud; it's flawed. It doesn't add to the class, it simply replaces it for a very short time.

    Bingo. Though it would take much effort (and knowing Anet they probably wouldn't want to) I'd love if they were to replace core and reaper shroud with the same mechanic as Scourge. By that I mean Life Force becomes an energy source to power our F skills, and then we use the current shroud skills in their respective slots (with some changes), while buffing them to the appropriate levels of damage.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Necromancer is an offensive class.

    Boon corrupts
    Condition transfers
    Blinds
    Vulnerability
    Lots of non-projectile ranged attacks
    Weakness

    If none of this stuff interests you than perhaps you should find a class that does interest you.

    other classes can also do those not fully everything at once like the necro but can do all those...

    while they can combo these with Immense mobility and immunes and the other billions of stuff they have on top of it....

    without these extra stuff we never be competitive......
    because the moment we are competitive in that ONE thing we are good at we are deemed OP and nerfed to the other classes level or even nerfed under them... the difference is they Also have these extra stuff on top of it while we are egual of worse in the offensive department.......

    It is just as much as HOW the attacks are delivered.
    Probably the best skill necromancers have is Unholy Feast and I would like to think I wouldn't need to explain why but there are others who just don't get it.

    You do realize that not everyone on this forum cares about WvW right?

    Unholy feast is only a strong skill in WvW. It's straight bad in PvE, and mediocre at best in sPvP.

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Necromancer is an offensive class.

    Boon corrupts
    Condition transfers
    Blinds
    Vulnerability
    Lots of non-projectile ranged attacks
    Weakness

    If none of this stuff interests you than perhaps you should find a class that does interest you.

    If we are such a offensive class please explain why all our weapon skills hit for significantly less damage than our peers.

    Also FYI thieves, revs, guardians, rangers, mesmers, and some ele builds have significantly better blind access that us.
    Also FYI warriors, engis, and power mesmers have better vulnerability application than us.
    Also FYI we only have 1 weapon skill, 1 utility, and 1 trait that apply weakness.

    Necromancer only saving grace is boon corrupt.

    And it's boon corrupts that give easy access to blind, weakness and vulnverability...

    Which boons are corrupted chosen at random, you have no control over it. Moreover even adding in corrupts we still have less application of blind and vuln than other classes.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Necromancer is an offensive class.

    Boon corrupts
    Condition transfers
    Blinds
    Vulnerability
    Lots of non-projectile ranged attacks
    Weakness

    If none of this stuff interests you than perhaps you should find a class that does interest you.

    other classes can also do those not fully everything at once like the necro but can do all those...

    while they can combo these with Immense mobility and immunes and the other billions of stuff they have on top of it....

    without these extra stuff we never be competitive......
    because the moment we are competitive in that ONE thing we are good at we are deemed OP and nerfed to the other classes level or even nerfed under them... the difference is they Also have these extra stuff on top of it while we are egual of worse in the offensive department.......

    It is just as much as HOW the attacks are delivered.
    Probably the best skill necromancers have is Unholy Feast and I would like to think I wouldn't need to explain why but there are others who just don't get it.

    You do realize that not everyone on this forum cares about WvW right?

    Unholy feast is only a strong skill in WvW. It's straight bad in PvE, and mediocre at best in sPvP.

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Necromancer is an offensive class.

    Boon corrupts
    Condition transfers
    Blinds
    Vulnerability
    Lots of non-projectile ranged attacks
    Weakness

    If none of this stuff interests you than perhaps you should find a class that does interest you.

    If we are such a offensive class please explain why all our weapon skills hit for significantly less damage than our peers.

    Also FYI thieves, revs, guardians, rangers, mesmers, and some ele builds have significantly better blind access that us.
    Also FYI warriors, engis, and power mesmers have better vulnerability application than us.
    Also FYI we only have 1 weapon skill, 1 utility, and 1 trait that apply weakness.

    Necromancer only saving grace is boon corrupt.

    And it's boon corrupts that give easy access to blind, weakness and vulnverability...

    Which boons are corrupted chosen at random, you have no control over it. Moreover even adding in corrupts we still have less application of blind and vuln than other classes.

    I'm beginning to see a pattern to debating with you.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/11162/why-my-favorite-class-always-get-nerfed

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    And it's boon corrupts that give easy access to blind, weakness and vulnverability...

    Irrelevant for pve.

    Which is a design flaw in the game. They understood enchantment/hex and removals in gw1 pve but decided to not add boon/condi and removals to the pve side of the game?

    Here is a vet for you guys to fight, we decided to give it more health and toughness instead of giving it protection boon.
    Here is a champion for you guys to fight, we decided to give it more damage instead of giving it fury and might boons.
    Here is a mob for you guys to fight, we decided to give it a break bar instead of stability.
    Here is a mob for you guys to fight, we decided to give it evade frames instead of the ability to dodge bolstered by vigor.

    Two fine examples of why gw1 pve was better,
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charr_Chaot
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dolyak_Master

    I've always thought this was really weird from a design standpoint (talking about GW2). In GW1, however overpowered a boss/elite enemy was, it still played out exactly like you, with a proper skill bar and everything. Enemies were subject to the same rules as players and virtually the only difference between PvE and PvP was the fact that you were fighting another player rather than an AI that spam its whole bar on cooldown.

    In order to introduce enemy uniqueness they did not resort to breaking through their own system but rather put unique "monster skills" in certain enemies so that they had their own playstyle and mechanics. Also due to that, GW1 was very careful with tooltips and skill descriptions. Everything was checked and double checked to death and it was very rare that a skill failed to do exactly what the description says. Keywords were marked and you could lay out logical definitions for each keyword and build the whole skill tree of the game from them. It baffles me that they basically threw it all away instead of adapting it into their action-oriented new mechanics. This also helped streamline enemies into a more believable army-rank style, where you fight "Corsair Necromancers" that are actual necromancers just like you, and not the mess we have in GW2.

    The Necro seems to be the worst offender of this actually, since a lot of its skills and traits tried to derive from GW1, but it naturally failed to deliver because the game did not really take anything from GW1 other than the lore.

  • @Justine.6351 said:

    Which is a design flaw in the game. They understood enchantment/hex and removals in gw1 pve but decided to not add boon/condi and removals to the pve side of the game?

    Here is a vet for you guys to fight, we decided to give it more health and toughness instead of giving it protection boon.
    Here is a champion for you guys to fight, we decided to give it more damage instead of giving it fury and might boons.
    Here is a mob for you guys to fight, we decided to give it a break bar instead of stability.
    Here is a mob for you guys to fight, we decided to give it evade frames instead of the ability to dodge bolstered by vigor.

    Two fine examples of why gw1 pve was better,
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charr_Chaot
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dolyak_Master

    As far as I've experienced, they did somewhat address it in PoF. I find myself using boon stripping/corruption there more often than other areas I've been in, which is a refreshing change. Hope there's more of that going forward.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017

    I agree with OP.
    Our weapon skills are extremely bland. Staff is bad auto with 4 of the same skill. Focus should grant might on bounce not regen. And the skill 5 should be something better, like invulnerability (like ele has obsidian flesh on focus for example).
    Warhorn needs blast finisher and locust swarm needs to go (can stay visually though), it ticks cripple and puts into combat even without mobs (invisible objects).
    Dagger needs a shadowstep on dark pact (or evade).
    Axe 3 needs to be a blast finisher or something akin to unrelenting assult, idk, mobility skill.
    Torch needs a fire field on skill 5, make it aoe targeted like lava font.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sublimatio.6981 said:
    I agree with OP.
    Our weapon skills are extremely bland. Staff is bad auto with 4 of the same skill. Focus should grant might on bounce not regen. And the skill 5 should be something better, like invulnerability (like ele has obsidian flesh on focus for example).
    Warhorn needs blast finisher and locust swarm needs to go (can stay visually though), it ticks cripple and puts into combat even without mobs (invisible objects).
    Dagger needs a shadowstep on dark pact (or evade).
    Axe 3 needs to be a blast finisher or something akin to unrelenting assult, idk, mobility skill.
    Torch needs a fire field on skill 5, make it aoe targeted like lava font.

    this guy gets it....

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.