The game's engine needs updates to modern standards

It's been a great five years, but the game's age is starting to show. I'm running a pretty high end machine and the game runs abysmally compared to other games, especially other MMORPGs (WoW, FFXIV). Look at the settings menus of these games: it's crazy how little Guild Wars has in comparison, and that's just options. I just started playing again (haven't played since HoT launch) and brought a bunch of friends with me, and multiple of them have commented that the game runs really badly for them.

-The game generally has low FPS, especially in any crowded area. It's difficult to maintain 60 FPS in many areas, let alone push to 144. If you enter combat with multiple players, good luck. I'm not going to claim I know the reasoning (cough poor multithreading and GPU utilization), but really this is a huge issue. As an example of poor optimization, I have two GTX 1080s and I have to play the game on low shadows because the game's FPS drops a ton the instant I put it any higher, yet ambient occlusion and supersampling don't even budge it (???). This is even true with no players around. The game also has frame pacing issues and frequent micro-stutters, especially on UI updates.

-The UI scaling options are awful. You are given a few select preset options (with no indicator as to what these even are) and that's it. Anything above 1080p is a downgrade in playability because the UI simply can't keep up. I have a 4k monitor and wouldn't mind playing the game on that or even in DSR, but the UI gets so small and there's nothing you can do about it.

-General quality of life features you'd expect are just missing. No floating health bars for allied players is a common one that's brought up all the time. There's lots more that would just be nice to have, but there's very few options to even do so. I know the game's UI is meant to be super stylish, but it seems like it's just holding back usability at this point.

-Loading times can get very long. This is especially true if you decide to load into an area with a large number of players. I got the free 2 week pass to Mistlock Sanctuary and I stopped using it because the load time to get in there was way longer than Lion's Arch. I could go to Lion's Arch and run into Fractals faster than Mistlock, despite it being a shorter run. I have a fast SSD, and I would even try to maybe even ramdisk certain files of the game using symbolic links to help the game out, but even that's impossible when the entire game is in one .dat.

There's more, but that's just off the top of my head. It also disappoints me because I felt like Guild Wars 1 was extremely optimized on both low-end and high-end computers.

Please provide your own ideas and thoughts of things you think they can change to improve your experience.

It would require anet to hire a dedicated staff to work on the engine improvement. There will be a lot works on threading and distributing the workload more evenly which I think anet does not want to invest in. Personally, I always welcome performance increase, hate that FPS when doing WvW.

I think we need to accept that if we wanted to see GW2 further optimised than it is already, we'd be looking at some serious need for the engine to be refurbished. Now I'd like to point out that I'm not disagreeing with the idea that an optimisation of the game would be nice - actually I'd really love if the game could be optimised so that the FPS doesn't suddenly choke itself to death despite my rig being top-end and not struggling on any other game I've installed basically ever.

With two expansions under the belt now, I don't see ArenaNet dedicating that kind of time or team to work on the upgrade that, really, we'd need to see that kind of optimisation we want. GW2 is definitely perhaps the worst culprit of being a more modern MMORPG that seems to run on an older or less capable engine insofar as the way it performs when you compare it to others in the genre. The decision to stylise the UI to be more artsy makes the game incredibly pretty, but also means that certain "QoL" improvements you ask for might not necessarily work. And beyond that, while QoL for some, that doesn't quality them to be QoL to others. I'll be honest, I've never wanted or needed floating HP bars in GW2, because I find the party UI does a good enough job of telling me that information. Also similarly, because the vast majority of monsters and enemies in this game don't use a traditional hate/threat system to determine who they're going to swing at for their auto-attacks, it would be asinine and borderline foolish to include a "QoL" upgrade like, say, the health bar of the targeted player next to the monster you're targeting, so that players in healing builds could see easily enough who they need to focus on.

I'd love to see this game get the upgrade it needs for performance - because visually I really don't think anything needs to be changed. But then again, after four years of almost nothing (Heart of Thorns barely seemed to change anything at all visually, and Path of Fire seems to be upgrading some of the visuals as it seems to look better than any other area we've been to previously even if it's the same sort of type) I think we might need to come to accept we're just not going to ever see these changes. It would be a huge undertaking now that they've released two expansions on the same foundation as the core game, and I won't pretend to know how easy a retroactive performance upgrade is to something like GW2 but I can't imagine it's a simple or easy task - nor one ANet will be willing to remotely consider for at least six months to one year past PoF release.

I only have ping issues in wvw,but I am fine with fps.

@Shirlias.8104 said:I only have ping issues in wvw,but I am fine with fps.

Normally it's good to post your rig specs when you make these kind of responses. I'm "fine" with FPS too insofar as I can play 99.99% of the game at 50+ FPS on max settings at all times, including the use of GemFX because vanilla GW2 is boring as heck to me. But then again, I'm running on a Nvidia GTX 1070 FE with the latest Intel processor and the only thing slowing my rig down is the fact I don't currently have an SSD. I should, ultimately, be able to pull more than 50FPS at all times on max settings in an ideal world. The fact I can't, and the fact that GW2 still hogs so much CPU compared to other equally expansive games speaks a lot to the optimisation of the game itself.

Just because you're fine with FPS, that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement or that the optimisation is okay.

I'm running an i7 4790k and GTX 1080 x2 and the fact I can't maintain 60 FPS in most areas is disappointing, large number of players or not. It's a big difference compared to WoW or FFXIV, which I just sit at a solid 144 FPS even when I'm raiding.

Maintaining 60 should be easy as a bare minimum, but on those games I can go past 100 FPS and even up to 144 even on 4k. This game struggles on 1080p.

I think UI wise they intentionally don't have alot of features, at least since launch. Floating healthbars and such have been part of visual add-ons and have been prohibited as far as I know. So at least on that department it's more done so aesthetically.

@Crevox.5806 said:I'm running an i7 4790k and GTX 1080 x2 and the fact I can't maintain 60 FPS in most areas is disappointing, large number of players or not. It's a big difference compared to WoW or FFXIV, which I just sit at a solid 144 FPS even when I'm raiding.

Maintaining 60 should be easy as a bare minimum, but on those games I can go past 100 FPS and even up to 144 even on 4k. This game struggles on 1080p.

I would agree with you - and I noticed you posted most of your specs in your OP. Specifically, that comment of mine was aimed at Shirlias. Like I said in my first response, anyway, I don't disagree that GW2 seems to be the dark horse of modern MMORPGs in that it runs, arguably, the worst. It eats my CPU like a fly on unmentionables, it never surpasses 100FPS unless I'm playing on the lowest settings (and why would I? I didn't spend this much money on a gaming rig to play my games at low settings) and it notably drops frames in various areas and clearly chugs when loading content with lots of players.

Would I like an optimisation to this game? Almost definitely I would. I'd love to see this game run as smoothly as other games do, and I think it's a crying shame that it fails to manage that even after four years of being available. That said, am I confident we'll see that? No. No, I'm not, because I'm fairly confident these problems are caused by the engine that the game uses, and I'm not convinced ArenaNet is ever going to dedicate the time, money and man-power to rehaul everything that potentially needs to be rehauled in order to get this game to the same standard as others. But trust me, as a huge fan and player of FFXIV, I would kill to see GW2 run as well as that does.

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:I think UI wise they intentionally don't have alot of features, at least since launch. Floating healthbars and such have been part of visual add-ons and have been prohibited as far as I know. So at least on that department it's more done so aesthetically.

I want to say this is more just because they want to not give such powerful, gameplay enhancing features to only people that decide to use a mod. It should be everyone or no one.

@Crevox.5806 said:It's been a great five years, but the game's age is starting to show. I'm running a pretty high end machine and the game runs abysmally compared to other games, especially other MMORPGs (WoW, FFXIV). Look at the settings menus of these games: it's crazy how little Guild Wars has in comparison, and that's just options. I just started playing again (haven't played since HoT launch) and brought a bunch of friends with me, and multiple of them have commented that the game runs really badly for them.

-The game generally has low FPS, especially in any crowded area. It's difficult to maintain 60 FPS in many areas, let alone push to 144. If you enter combat with multiple players, good luck. I'm not going to claim I know the reasoning (cough poor multithreading and GPU utilization), but really this is a huge issue. As an example of poor optimization, I have two GTX 1080s and I have to play the game on low shadows because the game's FPS drops a ton the instant I put it any higher, yet ambient occlusion and supersampling don't even budge it (???). This is even true with no players around. The game also has frame pacing issues and frequent micro-stutters, especially on UI updates.

-The UI scaling options are awful. You are given a few select preset options (with no indicator as to what these even are) and that's it. Anything above 1080p is a downgrade in playability because the UI simply can't keep up. I have a 4k monitor and wouldn't mind playing the game on that or even in DSR, but the UI gets so small and there's nothing you can do about it.

-General quality of life features you'd expect are just missing. No floating health bars for allied players is a common one that's brought up all the time. There's lots more that would just be nice to have, but there's very few options to even do so. I know the game's UI is meant to be super stylish, but it seems like it's just holding back usability at this point.

-Loading times can get very long. This is especially true if you decide to load into an area with a large number of players. I got the free 2 week pass to Mistlock Sanctuary and I stopped using it because the load time to get in there was way longer than Lion's Arch. I could go to Lion's Arch and run into Fractals faster than Mistlock, despite it being a shorter run. I have a fast SSD, and I would even try to maybe even ramdisk certain files of the game using symbolic links to help the game out, but even that's impossible when the entire game is in one .dat.

There's more, but that's just off the top of my head. It also disappoints me because I felt like Guild Wars 1 was extremely optimized on both low-end and high-end computers.

Please provide your own ideas and thoughts of things you think they can change to improve your experience.

this is why I am not buying the new pack path of fire when it comes out this month !! it is most welcomed to hear some one other than me that plays the game on 2 GTX 1080s video cards as you . and I have got the same problem as you do with this game !!

it is not your computer at all it,s the game !! I also play wow and grand theft auto on 4K . both games run very well no problems at all and I get 125 FPS on both games with every thing set to ultra !!! also too when I play other games and watch Hulu in 4K on my computer . it is very nice and good this game tho no fun at all on my high end computer.

yes the UI scaling options are awful I got to keep mine on 1080 P at best if iam lucky and not in a world boss then I got to drop it down to a much lower to just make it look even half way good even . sad part is knowing they will never update this game at all. since been playing guild wars since that first came out to now playing guild wars 2 . well they will not updated the game to the most latest specs or any thing. just makes me sad and like I said at the first of my post I will not be buying the new pack coming out in a few days . still will play the game from time to time now. but will enjoy other games like wow grand theft auto fall out 4 Destiny 2 much more now .

Would be cool if they redid the game engine but thats a lot of work and it would most likely mean no new content for however long it takes to do them. They really should have a 4k ui option though. How fast are you expecting them to maps to load?, i have an ssd to and i load pretty fast (could just feel really fast cause up tell a couple months ago gw2 was on a mechanical drive).In all honesty i have accepted playing the game at lower graphics, game doesn't look that bad on medium graphics.

The game runs shamefully compared ton Ff xiv. It needs serious work. It WILL be a problem. At least for me.

As someone who is more than "in there" in the game development industry, you don't just "get a new engine and replace the old one", or "update the engine" for that matter. Using a new engine with the same game would be considered a remaster or a full-fledged sequel. Unless Anet has plans for Guild Wars 3 (and for MMO standards, that won't be anytime soon), this is most likely super impossible.

I get where you're coming from with some of these changes though, and to those I'd say "we haven't really seen all of what this engine can do". Stuff like the action cam, the LFG tool and camera options weren't implemented until after launch and with plenty of work done on them to get them to where they are now. This is an engine that was developed in-house so only Anet truly knows what the engine is capable of. I'm perfectly fine with continuing to provide constructive criticism and see which ones this engine can fulfill.

The CPU matters more than the GPUs you run , especially if you don't lower model limit. The game is largely held back by one main thread. There is only so much that can be parallelized , see Amdahl's law.

In its current state, only Sandy Bridge (2nd gen) i7s, ideally 4th gen or newer with high overclocks (4.5GHz+) will be able to push the newest GPUs.

The only AMD CPU worth buying for this is the Ryzen 5 1600X , preferably clocked to 4.1GHz. It will still lag behind the i7s.

see https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n/?st=j7jvb8tb&sh=98cc5f8d

Personally, I find GW2 to be leading in the aspects of development. Sure there are quality-of-life options that people can use, but this game has come a long way since 2012. To say they haven't is a lie...

There's a lot of clutter in other games that often feel out of place or clunky. And the level of detail GW2 gets into far surpasses those of more generic MMO comparisons. There is no MMO out there that matches the gravity of what the GW2's engine puts out. There is so much happening in GW2 at any given time that a lot of people take for granted. Yes, sure there are other MMOs that run another way and look at something another way, but if you can't see the differences between them--that's a problem. Those games aren't flawless either.

Newer GW2 content runs better than the older content (go to newer maps and you'll see). Plus, there are a lot of settings you can tweak that can get this game running 60fps+. There's a of little details happening at your screen at once that isn't just covered by flashy and overly processed skill effects like other games have. There's also a matter of the engine other games run and the level they use it.

Optimization takes time especially when trying to update code from 2012 to current gen, but you should be thankful newer content does not have the same limitations the older content had. You can see they are updating the older parts of the game when they can...while they develop new content to keep us occupied. Game unplayable and there are settings you can use to better handle the more intense situations (which in any game, if the magnitude is the same, would be an issue).

But then again, I'm running on a Nvidia GTX 1070 FE with the latest Intel processor and the only thing slowing my rig down is the fact I don't currently have an SSD.

GW2's framerate also heavily depends on your CPU, though. And a 1070 isn't "top end"

I'm running an i7 4790k and GTX 1080 x2 and the fact I can't maintain 60 FPS in most areas is disappointing, large number of players or not. It's a big difference compared to WoW or FFXIV, which I just sit at a solid 144 FPS even when I'm raiding.

Outside of busy areas where are you having issues hitting 60FPS? Assuming your CPU is OC'd. I'm at 1440P and I dip into the high 40s on some fractals/raids on a 1070, but besides cities it sits at 80-100+ depending on the map

In its current state, only Sandy Bridge (2nd gen) i7s, ideally 4th gen or newer with high overclocks (4.5GHz+) will be able to push the newest GPUs.

I'm willing to bet you'd get good mileage out of a latest-generation i7 (i5) instead of an SB/IB chip. GW2 is a game where the ~30% IPC increase will actually make a difference. Seeing how heavily single-core limited (and from my own experience), I don't see much of a reason for an i7 over an i5 for GW2 though

I have heard that a couple of things affect gw2 performance.

1. Intel processor is way better than AMD
2. SSD drive with gw2 on them can help a lot!

My suggestions to improve what they have now?

1. I want a Particle Effect slider! I can't even make sense of many world fights because there are simply too many effects blobbing the screen out with color. I have wanted this since release, so I don't think that they care about what those fights look like...

I have heard that a couple of things affect gw2 performance.

1. Intel processor is way better than AMD

AMD's new stuff is all right, it's as good as a couple generation old Intel CPU in terms of IPC so it's fine for GW2. The problem with AMD was just the fact that their old CPUs had garbage tier IPC

@Inguiomerus.1504 said:As someone who is more than "in there" in the game development industry, you don't just "get a new engine and replace the old one", or "update the engine" for that matter. Using a new engine with the same game would be considered a remaster or a full-fledged sequel. Unless Anet has plans for Guild Wars 3 (and for MMO standards, that won't be anytime soon), this is most likely super impossible.

I get where you're coming from with some of these changes though, and to those I'd say "we haven't really seen all of what this engine can do". Stuff like the action cam, the LFG tool and camera options weren't implemented until after launch and with plenty of work done on them to get them to where they are now. This is an engine that was developed in-house so only Anet truly knows what the engine is capable of. I'm perfectly fine with continuing to provide constructive criticism and see which ones this engine can fulfill.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that games such as GW2 would need a sequel or a remaster for any sort of upgrade to be a thing. Sequels/remasters of online games are actually not common or normal even when upgrades to the games are made. Some games even have gone through multiple overhauls without being re-released as a sequel or remaster, it was treated as what it was, an upgrade to the games coding/design. Remasters are mostly for older single player titles and sequels aren't meant for an upgrade to the game either, it's generally story/world changes that may or may not come with modern features.

The issue is, whether a game is upgraded/overhauled or not will always come down to money. Upgrading either allows for easier development or the possibility of certain features both resulting in the upgrade paying for itself over time and profiting. Unfortunately we don't know either of this in regards to GW2. Although, I do think the game could use an upgrade all around and not just to the ui and client performance (additional character customization, client options, etc). In terms of fps, I can't say that it's horrible, but at the same time I am running on hardware released not long ago on an older game. (GTX 1070 paired with a liquid cooled i7 6700k oc @ 4.7)

All valid points here, so I really have to wonder which two tech-inexperienced people gave the OP a thumb down. Please, become tech-savvy before you vote someone's post down. After all, these are all facts, not randomly made up claims.

The engine does need improvements in all those departments. While I rarely experience lag to a point where the FPS become so remarkably low that it is giving me nausea, the data doesn't lie. Unparking all CPU cores does help a little, also changing GPU settings for the game etc., but there is only so much tweaking you can do on your end to improve the results. An optimized engine that utilizes one's hardware better would be highly appreciated. :)

I'm really hoping that we see a graphics and engine overhaul in the near future, including the option for DirectX12. Who knows, it may be something they're already working on. It would be a massive undertaking that would likely take years, but it would vastly increase the longevity of the game, and that's something I'm sure we all want. We still have so much more of the map to explore, but with the graphics and engine already being so outdated, I'm not sure how much longer they're going to be able to pull in new players. That's already something they're struggling to do, especially with their terrible marketing team, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Another big issue as OP mentioned is the lack of a customizable UI. If we look at the GW1 UI, each individual element could be moved and scaled to our liking, whereas in GW2 all we can do is change the overall scaling and move our minimap. I'd love to see more options for our UI implement.

@LUST.7241 said:Newer GW2 content runs better than the older content (go to newer maps and you'll see). Plus, there are a lot of settings you can tweak that can get this game running 60fps+. There's a of little details happening at your screen at once that isn't just covered by flashy and overly processed skill effects like other games have. There's also a matter of the engine other games run and the level they use it.

No way dude. The vanilla maps are fine. Heart of Thorns and season 3 maps are a mess. The only map running smoothly is Bitterfrost Frontier.

No Vulkan support, CPU parking on Recent cpus and minimal utilization of the gpu. The three capital sins of modern day pc gaming.

I came across a comment on the /r/Guildwars2 subreddit from 2 years ago by the Lead Engine Programmer, Johan. He mentions points relating to rendering, bottlenecks and threads with a comment that I found interesting:

GW2 does a lot of processing, and much of it is done on the main thread. That is also where its bottleneck tends to be: The main thread.

Reddit Source

Albeit, it is from two years ago, I can't foresee it being much different from today's client specs -- a pretty good read.

@Inguiomerus.1504 said:As someone who is more than "in there" in the game development industry, you don't just "get a new engine and replace the old one", or "update the engine" for that matter. Using a new engine with the same game would be considered a remaster or a full-fledged sequel. Unless Anet has plans for Guild Wars 3 (and for MMO standards, that won't be anytime soon), this is most likely super impossible.

So how did other MMORPGs do it, then?