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on balance - Poor Anzalias

SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭
edited September 27, 2020 in WvW

For WvW to be balance, the map itself has to be as well, Anzalias Post is a tower that is located the farthest from a camp. the Dolly to Anzalias should run faster than other Dolly. Not only that, it is the only Tower with 3, THREE Vulnerable walls .
please fix "contested X" on Speldan when it is under attack.

Comments

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    Anza's probably the weakest tower on the map, It's a nightmare to try defend.
    It should either have the wall facing SMC be indestructible or It should be moved close to the camp on the other side of the cave entrance.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    Anza's probably the weakest tower on the map, It's a nightmare to try defend.

    True.
    But conversely, Ogrewatch is the very easiest tower to keep.
    One best and one average tower isn't balance.

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  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    Anza's probably the weakest tower on the map, It's a nightmare to try defend.

    True.
    But conversely, Ogrewatch is the very easiest tower to keep.
    One best and one average tower isn't balance.

    But it isn't. The easiest tower to defend is Aldon's, with Veloka a close second. Green not only has the easiest tower to defend, they have the easiest third to defend. Which seems an odd choice to give the easiest third to the server that is likely the biggest/strongest in a matchup (less true today with all the bandwagon blobs losing on purpose for easier matches, but still mostly true in T1). For years I suggested several changes to EB, which included moving the walls at SMC and Overlook back so that the strongest server (usually green) couldn't just treb red's keep all day. They finally got to that one. There are several other changes that still need to be addressed. The vista hill needs a balance pass. And, in the spirit of actual competition, each third needs a balance pass to fix the fact that they are not equal, both in terms of holding/upgrading and backcapping. The same pass needs to be done to the borderlands. The maps need to be equal in terms of the effort required to defend them, clear them, and retake them. Yet, red's borderland (with red usually being the weakest server in a match) is the hardest to defend, hold, and retake.

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  • in the end, close towers are easy to defend and far ones hard. that's no higher tier magic there. (with siege + closeness to spawn, close tower are just easy to hold if u want to)

    like on RBL, some stuff on EBG could be put together a bit closer, so it'd be easier to overview. still, i see no need on that since it isn't exactly mattering. it would matter, if ppt was more important.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2020

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    Anza's probably the weakest tower on the map, It's a nightmare to try defend.

    True.
    But conversely, Ogrewatch is the very easiest tower to keep.
    One best and one average tower isn't balance.

    But it isn't. The easiest tower to defend is Aldon's, with Veloka a close second. Green not only has the easiest tower to defend, they have the easiest third to defend. Which seems an odd choice to give the easiest third to the server that is likely the biggest/strongest in a matchup (less true today with all the bandwagon blobs losing on purpose for easier matches, but still mostly true in T1). For years I suggested several changes to EB, which included moving the walls at SMC and Overlook back so that the strongest server (usually green) couldn't just treb red's keep all day. They finally got to that one. There are several other changes that still need to be addressed. The vista hill needs a balance pass. And, in the spirit of actual competition, each third needs a balance pass to fix the fact that they are not equal, both in terms of holding/upgrading and backcapping. The same pass needs to be done to the borderlands. The maps need to be equal in terms of the effort required to defend them, clear them, and retake them. Yet, red's borderland (with red usually being the weakest server in a match) is the hardest to defend, hold, and retake.

    Those tower have huge flaws, and spots if a larger group goes there, the only way to defend is atack on ground with a similiar force or more.
    Even jerrifer has 2 way to get it :\ "easilly".

    TDLR its actually the same :\ as any other tower if one pays atention to siege range and map from above

    Nuke EB :pensive: let see how WvW will actually end after Cantha, all of this is suposelly temporary assuming maps will have a refreshed design.

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  • cna think of a tower on eb that has as many breakable walls and the gate as Anza.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2020

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    cna think of a tower on eb that has as many breakable walls and the gate as Anza.

    Durios?
    Forever alone tower Mendons... that hting is worst designed tower...
    Invunerables walls is a baind aid fix... :)

    Note: if it were Anet dev that designed the keeps and towers in some EU mediaval time .... that country would not last 10 days xD
    Anet designs goes completelly against any logic of strucutres of fort defense, even for a game with a "suposed" death match map design its weird...

    Note2: even hills on Alpione BL one can hit direct inner wall with trebs from under hills.
    Bay can be trebbed from outter to inenr as well.

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  • Tbh the whole Anza/Speldan/Mendon triangle is weirdly spaced out

  • @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    cna think of a tower on eb that has as many breakable walls and the gate as Anza.

    Durios?
    Forever alone tower Mendons... that hting is worst designed tower...
    Invunerables walls is a baind aid fix... :)

    Note: if it were Anet dev that designed the keeps and towers in some EU mediaval time .... that country would not last 10 days xD
    Anet designs goes completelly against any logic of strucutres of fort defense, even for a game with a "suposed" death match map design its weird...

    Note2: even hills on Alpione BL one can hit direct inner wall with trebs from under hills.
    Bay can be trebbed from outter to inenr as well.

    true, but Anza has 3 walls that can break ontop of the gate D: feelssadman

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    cna think of a tower on eb that has as many breakable walls and the gate as Anza.

    Durios?
    Forever alone tower Mendons... that hting is worst designed tower...
    Invunerables walls is a baind aid fix... :)

    Note: if it were Anet dev that designed the keeps and towers in some EU mediaval time .... that country would not last 10 days xD
    Anet designs goes completelly against any logic of strucutres of fort defense, even for a game with a "suposed" death match map design its weird...

    Note2: even hills on Alpione BL one can hit direct inner wall with trebs from under hills.
    Bay can be trebbed from outter to inenr as well.

    true, but Anza has 3 walls that can break ontop of the gate D: feelssadman

    Every wall in every keep should be damageable....

    Those undestroyable walls its a band aid fix, and shows map layout has problems.

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet is probably in a weird place where EBG is way too poorly planned out for piecemeal fixes to be viable, but it's also the most popular map so anything so substantial as a recolor would fracture their playerbase. So they do nothing...or they spend the better part of a decade working on a replacement map that everyone will hate no matter what they do.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2020

    @Sviel.7493 said:
    Anet is probably in a weird place where EBG is way too poorly planned out for piecemeal fixes to be viable, but it's also the most popular map so anything so substantial as a recolor would fracture their playerbase. So they do nothing...or they spend the better part of a decade working on a replacement map that everyone will hate no matter what they do.

    Burning isle map from gw1 is the solution to be aplied in EBG but players that think they kwno pvp better than anyone else will QQ about Anet adding pve into pvp...

    Theres a shortcut on that map, it had a draw ack since that could kill ur team and strategie (another word that lacks into gw2.... strategie is minimal or no existent when compared with gw1....).

    Remove invunerable walls
    Remove dredge put some fire OP thing where like destroyrs cave :) with a big and painfgull one tha scales greatly when omniblobs try to pass, like the fire golem on burning isle.
    The same could be done to the paths that connect blue to green and gred to green.

    Side Note : IMO theres a great problem on gw2 "wanabe pvpr's" that were bad on other pvp game or never played pvp game, for what ic and play wtih some is that they dont want dificult game,nor adversities that test them on pvp map as a team besides spam and roll, no objectives besides outman enemies, IMO this mentality needs to be cutted a ,litle bit.
    I know 2 guilds that moved to server that rarelly have anemies on the timezone they now play... so they can ktrain more cause they dont fight they search for instant rewards, they probably moved to another server already.

    Creating objectives for ur team to split rather than omni blob its healthy for the pvp enviroment
    Creating challanges to see how team manages under pressure and taking diferent tactics rather than be more minstrels and scourges/necros than anemy.

    Wvw needs to be more than this >giphy.gif

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  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I mean red keep is pretty obnoxious to attack. Heaven forbid it have any weak spots.

    But yeah when I go into ebg AP is pretty much always paper. I don't know of a reasonable improvement to change that without completely moving the tower.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2020

    @Justine.6351 said:
    I mean red keep is pretty obnoxious to attack. Heaven forbid it have any weak spots.

    But yeah when I go into ebg AP is pretty much always paper. I don't know of a reasonable improvement to change that without completely moving the tower.

    Getinto the closest tower and treb inner wall directly, use its suply to have perma shielding on those trebs.
    Cliff in front of anzalias will treb outter and inner wall as well, if a omni blob stays there, onlya similiar group can fight on open field, or they will have to engage in the keep wich will probably be harder cause enemy will push direct to lords with inner and outter open from that cliff.

    Now with warclaw u can sniff if a enemy blob is comming up.. no more suprise atacks on the trebs.

    Every tower and keep has its gimmick place to take it...

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    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2020

    I thought I commented on this? Was it a different thread?

    The tower sits in the bottom of a valley with 3 destructible walls and can be hit from the top floor of SMC. The first problem is that it's surrounded by hills with the tower sitting at the lowest point making it very easy for ranged attacks to cover the entire walls. Arrow Carts are pretty well useless for this tower for this reason, similarly for Mendon's (although Mendon at least has the virtue of being close to spawn and being more awkward to hit with Catapults).

    I think a few things could be done to make it easier to defend without a lot of work for ANet and without making it too easy to defend:

    • Raise the tower so it sits on higher ground/make it sit atop a small hill.
    • There is a cliff behind the tower on the side of SMC - pull that cliff forward a little bit so Catapults cannot hit the wall from the field where they cannot be countered from the tower. Alternatively, push the tower slightly toward Dredge tunnel.
    • Lower the cliff with the Vista very slightly so Mortars from the outer keep can more reliably hit that area.
    • Increase the floor space of the tower very slightly by extending the length of the tower on the gate side.

    Moving the tower entirely would probably be the best solution, but it may still require adjustments to the structure depending on where it is relocated to. My suggestion is to move it to sit on the edge of the cliff toward Speldan - not at the bottom of it, but on it so players cannot shoot over the walls like the can currently.

    In the picture below I'm showing the hill with the Vista should be lowered, the tower should be raised, and the cliff behind it should be pulled forward to come closer to the small bridge where the Sentry sits.
    Or, move the entire tower closer to Speldan.

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