some commanders ....

Doing the lab the commander was trying to down the lich with only a few people and failing badly. I suggested abandoning ship and he blamed his squad for not knowing what to do (in squad chat). He never told people what to do there but agreed it was time to leave the event. The very next thing he did was the viscount, which also had Steve there, after he died a few times in a short span of time he decided we should leave because his squad did not know what to do (no acknowledgement that he was dying too). Soon after he complained about his squad some more and left immediately so I took over.

I started congratulating the squad on events and we built it up over time, including eventually going back to wipe out the lich, the viscount, and steve a couple of times. When my bags were full I announced I had to leave but thanked the squad on my way out.

These commanders are probably the ones that complain here about PVE commanders and feel oh so superior. Sometimes I wish there were a qualification exam for commanders.

@Menadena.7482 said:Sometimes I wish there were a qualification exam for commanders.

You and everyone else in the game. As proved by the anet griffon number announcement, a few hundred gold is peanuts to the community. 99.9999999% of PvE commanders are incompetent beyond belief.

It's cases like these that remind me of this image:

http://d1vqbpto5tbbz0.cloudfront.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/24202300/boss-vs-leader-800x800.png

You get a thumbs up from me. :)

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:Sometimes I wish there were a qualification exam for commanders.

A lot of commanders in any mode follow the maxim of only tagging up in places where you know the event(s) backwards and forwards. For example, I will tag up most places in open world PVE but if I am tagged up at all in WVW it means I am shortcutting back to LA and left it on for those few seconds by accident.

For all both of us know this was a WVW commander so why the PVE dis? A lot of commanders in any mode follow the maxim of only tagging up in places where they know the event(s) backwards and forwards. For example, I will tag up most places in open world PVE but if I am tagged up at all in WVW it means I am shortcutting back to LA and left it on for those few seconds by accident.

@penelopehannibal.8947 said:It's cases like these that remind me of this image:

http://d1vqbpto5tbbz0.cloudfront.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/24202300/boss-vs-leader-800x800.png

You get a thumbs up from me. :)

HA!

The number of Dragon's Stand maps I've saved...

"Guy we can't do this map we don't have any commanders."Me: "Just go? Everyone knows what to do?"Success.

I feel bad for the poor commanders that get yelled at in WvW. They tag up, try to organize but then you get that one person who just has to yell and complain. Then the Commander just untags and leaves because they feel they are responsible when really they are not. I mean if people want to bark orders, then put up a tag!

I agree with OP too. Sometimes the Commander just needs to relax. Not throw blame on folks. Especially if they don't explain the fight. Heck I had to explain the Lich today to people and they asked me why I wasn't tagged up. Simple answer, I AM POOR!

@Menadena.7482 said:A lot of commanders in any mode follow the maxim of only tagging up in places where you know the event(s) backwards and forwards. For example, I will tag up most places in open world PVE but if I am tagged up at all in WVW it means I am shortcutting back to LA and left it on for those few seconds by accident.

For all both of us know this was a WVW commander so why the PVE dis? A lot of commanders in any mode follow the maxim of only tagging up in places where they know the event(s) backwards and forwards. For example, I will tag up most places in open world PVE but if I am tagged up at all in WVW it means I am shortcutting back to LA and left it on for those few seconds by accident.

... what?

For 1) I literally have no idea what you're even talking about.2) There is no knowledge required for PvE commanding. What are you going to accidentally lead people to their deaths doing the world boss?

@Jinroh.4251 said:I feel bad for the poor commanders that get yelled at in WvW. They tag up, try to organize but then you get that one person who just has to yell and complain. Then the Commander just untags and leaves because they feel they are responsible when really they are not. I mean if people want to bark orders, then put up a tag!

I agree with OP too. Sometimes the Commander just needs to relax. Not throw blame on folks. Especially if they don't explain the fight. Heck I had to explain the Lich today to people and they asked me why I wasn't tagged up. Simple answer, I AM POOR!

I agree. I don't mind commanders who do things "wrong" or "badly" at least they're either learning or having bad luck or something - it's the ones that blame everyone else but themselves that get my goat. I'll never buy a commander tag as I'll never be good enough to use it in WvW, and I don't wish to learn in case of getting yelled at. I'll stick with my Mentor Tag for PvE stuff and only stuff that I actually know about.

WvW commanders need your respect. Good god do they have a lot of decisions to make, and they need a big support network too. And if they make the wrong decision it doesn't mean a 20 silver loss in farming income it means the entire zerg dies instantly. WvW commanders are insane to take on that haha.

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:A lot of commanders in any mode follow the maxim of only tagging up in places where you know the event(s) backwards and forwards. For example, I will tag up most places in open world PVE but if I am tagged up at all in WVW it means I am shortcutting back to LA and left it on for those few seconds by accident.

For all both of us know this was a WVW commander so why the PVE dis? A lot of commanders in any mode follow the maxim of only tagging up in places where they know the event(s) backwards and forwards. For example, I will tag up most places in open world PVE but if I am tagged up at all in WVW it means I am shortcutting back to LA and left it on for those few seconds by accident.

Believe it or not you do need to know some things in PVE other than "press 1 and try not to die" and a commander is generally expected to know those things if there is a call for them. Event mechanics, pres, signs something is wrong, etc ....

Um, no there isn't. The most complicated things in PvE are triple trouble and dragon stand and neither require commanders and I in fact do them routinely without them. Would you like to provide another example or are you really die hard that you're super critical?

Sometimes I wonder if people realize, we used to do most of this content WITHOUT commanders. They were never required for anything. The feature to have a commander tag, only makes it easier to coordinate since you can direct people with the help of an easily spotted colored marker over your head. Honestly find the whole idea kinda stupid and pointless myself... but I know people like it so... whatever...

@Fluffball.8307 said:WvW commanders need your respect. Good god do they have a lot of decisions to make, and they need a big support network too. And if they make the wrong decision it doesn't mean a 20 silver loss in farming income it means the entire zerg dies instantly. WvW commanders are insane to take on that haha.

Yes but the lab is not WVW. Maybe blaming others is the way to do things in WVW but to me it comes across as "blaming your tools" when you do that in PVE. If you think your 4 person squad is ready to take on the lich or the viscount then make sure everyone knows what strategies to use.

Yes but the lab is not WVWYa I know farming Halloween commanders are not WvW commaneders. No one thinks that.

@Menadena.7482 said:

These commanders are probably the ones that complain here about PVE commanders and feel oh so superior.

Isn't it pretty much what your thread is doing?

I've encountered some pretty bad squads in PVE, though. I'm a commander myself, and it is rare but sometimes you get sets of players who are insufferable. They don't follow any of the markers, they don't follow instructions or read the chat, they run terrible snowflake builds and suicide aggressively against gigantic glowing death fields, they don't click on the ready check, they don't respect different group orders, they don't volunteer for important jobs. All they do is follow around the dorito like they're bots, but somehow are less competent than a bot.

That all said, there's no instructional course on how to be a commander. There's a large amount of initiative required to tag up, and leading an event requires different skills from simply doing it. Too many instructions and people tune you out, too little and nobody knows what to do. You have to take into consideration not only what people need to do, but also where you should stand in order to guide people on what to do. You have to read the entire squad and see what is happening, as well as perform well in the content itself.

@Fluffball.8307 said:Um, no there isn't. The most complicated things in PvE are triple trouble and dragon stand and neither require commanders and I in fact do them routinely without them. Would you like to provide another example or are you really die hard that you're super critical?

You do Triple Trouble without commanders? Routinely? With what guilds? I bet you can solo TT too, you so good. TT really does benefit from organized squads and teamwork. It sounds to me like you take issue with anyone who chooses to pop a tag, regardless of the situation.

I'll agree that there are plenty of commanders out there who run around tagged up without actively doing events or while being totally clueless as to what's going on, but in my experience those commanders are in the minority. Most commanders I've seen have been competent in what they were doing, or at the very least willing to listen to their squadmates/mapchat for feedback. Your assumption that 99.9999999% of commanders being useless is pretty dang silly.

Then again, there is one common denominator in all of the PvE commanders you've personally taken issue with, Fluffball. ;)

In both categories PvE and WvW, there are good, less good and - unfortunately - bad commanders. A good player does not make automatically a good commander. The commander job is a completely different role requiring different abilities.For me, being a commander in PvE means (I can't speak for WvW, I don't know it): 1) To know what is to be done 2) To set priority to others 3) To manage working as a team.It needs to take the time to explain when necessary, be ready to help, leave nobody behind, really lead, take decisions as required, bring solutions to troubles, and so on... There shall be no finger pointing and no blaming. If the squad is not working as it should, then the commander should stop and explain what is wrong and what shall be done differently. And most of all, when giving an instruction, always explain why. People will always better follow an instruction if they understand why they have to do it.I know that it can be a struggle at time due to the speed at which things go on, but that's exactly where the challenge is for the commander.

Generally, I believe - but maybe I am wrong, it is just an impression - that several players see the commander tag as being a public acknowledgement of performances (what is not the case), and therefore, there are probably many players who buy the tag just because of that. Fair enough, but since to tag up means to take over a "job", if they don't do it, nobody will enjoy and situation like described in OP will happen.

@Fluffball.8307 said:The number of Dragon's Stand maps I've saved...

Dragon's Stand is an excellent example for people failing the commanders, not the other way round.

I have tagged up on this many times. I always ask if there are new players, and if there are, I explain every step on the way. I have received a lot of positive feedback. But...

Then there are those occasional maps, especially at times when school is over, that are filled with trolls (that type nasty stuff in text chat because they can) or people who refuse to join the squad (or stay in the wrong squad instead of joining the one they are following, despite the many times you have kindly asked them to join their respective commander), hence can't read anything the commander is typing. Sometimes, it's a mix of both: people who start bullying or bad-mouthing their commanders for fun and refuse to join a squad because, according to them, commanders are useless and only tag up to pamper their ego (yes, I have read such insults for real). Sweet. Or there are people who don't know what to do, yet don't listen to what the commander is saying (for instance to stack up during the tower run, or how the collector's are healing the boss etc.).

When you have the misfortune to end up on a map like that as a commander, and then get bashed at the end because the map failed, that is a very frustrating and sometimes hurtful experience. You can be nice, helpful, position symbols for easier orientation, explain the important mechanics, do everything right - and the map can still fail.

So, if you make a thread to complain about commanders, you need to mention that there are quite a few players out there who can ruin an event for the rest of the attendees as well. Always blaming the commander is the easy way to redirect responsibility.

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:Sometimes I wish there were a qualification exam for commanders.

The amount of griffons posted by Anet at the time was rather small and not an indication of anything, Don't forget about gem->gold exchange either. If 250 gold really had been nothing but peanuts for the majority then I'm sure they would all be running around with legendary weapons and not random rare/exotic weapons with incorrect stats considering legendary weapons only go for a couple thousand. A higher cost wouldn't solve anything either, farming more gold, or selling more gems, doesn't make you a better commander in either wvw or pve. Any sort of test would be bypassed and be a waste of time too.

I'm also not sure why people don't just command themselves, if someone is doing a bad job, then leave or take over.

@Fluffball.8307 said:Um, no there isn't. The most complicated things in PvE are triple trouble and dragon stand and neither require commanders and I in fact do them routinely without them. Would you like to provide another example or are you really die hard that you're super critical?

This :)

The tag isn't hard to get if you play the market, but not so easy for most other players. PvE commanders probably lack commanding experience, so things like that are to be expected.

As for WvW: be happy that you have commanders.There's usually none around on my world. ...I can definitely see what some players mean when they say that the current system is making WvW-focused players transfer to more populated servers.

@Zaltys.7649 said:The tag isn't hard to get if you play the market, but not so easy for most other players. PvE commanders probably lack commanding experience, so things like that are to be expected.

One thing I would suggest to newer players: pick a couple of events and do them multiple times. Do the pres. Read any related wiki pages. Know the minutiae of what will happen. Join squads and parties .... what are they doing right and what can be improved? What common mistakes are made?

@Menadena.7482 said:Doing the lab the commander was trying to down the lich with only a few people and failing badly. I suggested abandoning ship and he blamed his squad for not knowing what to do (in squad chat). He never told people what to do there but agreed it was time to leave the event. The very next thing he did was the viscount, which also had Steve there, after he died a few times in a short span of time he decided we should leave because his squad did not know what to do (no acknowledgement that he was dying too). Soon after he complained about his squad some more and left immediately so I took over.

I started congratulating the squad on events and we built it up over time, including eventually going back to wipe out the lich, the viscount, and steve a couple of times. When my bags were full I announced I had to leave but thanked the squad on my way out.

These commanders are probably the ones that complain here about PVE commanders and feel oh so superior. Sometimes I wish there were a qualification exam for commanders.

Anyone can be a commander/mentor ... and that really does suck that they can be assholes or dont really know how to lead.

Ive had commanders like that and have just left the squad so I didnt have to see or hear it ....

I dislike when theres a commander running around and they assume you have to join them to do things their way or they throw a hissy fit .... to those commanders I say "YOUR NOT MY REAL MOM"!!!

jk :) but youre not alone in this .... and good job for making the situation better by at least thanking everyone.

I do get annoyed at people who deliberately troll a map, particularly ones with a good sized squad. Doing things like opening doors on the other side of the map then running away or dragging Steve to a boss. My frustration here is with other commanders though, a squad (including the cmdr) is all there for presumably about the same thing so it is better to work together than the cmdr blaming the squad when an event fails.