It's probably no secret that Staff is by far the weapon set that has been affected by the blanket competitive nerf the most.Not only was their CC potential gutted with a really jarring startup, their damage has been removed almost entirely due to SotM previously being one of the 2 actually damaging abilities on Staff.

I don't mean to suggest a complete rollback, but at least put some damage back into SotM.If we are to sacrifice all its damage, and half its CC potential, AND still have a long cooldown, it really doesn't matter if it has an evade frame or not, it's just a subpar skill with a long cooldown, something every other Profession has but still does more in that regard.(Things like Bull Charge for example, also having an Evade and Dash and CC, but none of the windup and being targeted as well meaning it has some form of tracking in a wide field considering the target does not port)

Additionally, I feel like Staff has been pushed further and further into pure utility, which isn't a big deal except for the fact that amongst Core weapons, no other weapon set compliments Power builds, forcing Power builds to always take Sword/Sword and Staff, while Staff being 70% utility means its used very little even in PvE settings aside from CC and Cleanse.

Also if Anet does ever push hard on nerfing utility in the future, well..... Staff is basically a dead weapon and Power builds will still be forced to take it because they lack any other better option.

So what does this spell for Power builds if we retain the various (and maybe warranted) Sword nerfs, and have Staff being gutted and potentially gutted even more in the future?Power Rev will have essentially 1 weapon set, with long cooldowns for half its skills

Suggestions for Staff if a rollback is completely off the table for Anet.

Firstly, the Chain attack skill.The first 2 strikes are A okay, but the third has a pretty long animation for like what, 2 ticks of damage.This is a little horrible considering that Staff's base damage even in PvE is pretty poor.

I think we could use less flashy, faster 3rd strike. And spawns those pesky healing orbs.

Skill 2 - Mender's Rebuke.I don't hate its current form, but I thought its previous version was pretty good too.However the current form has a weird wonky hit registration where if yu so much as move even a little bit during the cast animation, the skill won't hit.This skill isn't bad imo, just really aggravating when it comes to actually using it as a damage skill. (PS, it's damage is kinda meh)

Skill 3 - Warding Rift > Surge of the MistsI would like Anet to consider putting Warding Rift and Surge of the Mists together.Warding Rift can serve as a tell for Surge of the Mists, so we can remove the SotM delay casting.It's not gonna be broken op either since both skills will now share a single cooldown (though maybe a reduced cooldown if the player only uses Warding Rift without casting the flip skill)And maybe put some damage into Surge of the Mists.

Skill 4 - Renewing WaveCleanse. Good.Heal. Good.Blast Finisher. Nice touch.I would like to add something to make this skill more interesting though, and that is to make it detonate nearby Healing orbs for 50% more heal and damage, up to 5 orbs.So, say the Revenant was meleeing quite abit with orbs being thrown around the place, this skill can be used to force the healing orbs to cough out their heal as well as damage enemies around the Revenant.

New proposed skill 5I would like a new skill 5 as an additional damage skill for the set.So far we have only 1 skill that actually directly does damage (aside from skill 1 chain) and I would like to propose another one as a new skill 5 since im suggesting SotM be combined with Warding Rift.This new skill will :400 Range targeted Leap with 240 AoE.Deals damage upon landing.Heals upon landing.Heals more for each ally in the AoE.

The changes to Skill 4 and the new Skill 5 also will make Staff a better group support weapon, and has stronger heals when out of Centaur stance.

everything, but no staff 5 anymore

amongst Core weapons, no other weapon set compliments Power builds, forcing Power builds to always take Sword/Sword and StaffI think Hammer compliments Sword/Sword on pure power builds rather well.Unless I'm playing a Heal or Support build I see no reason to pick staff.

I'd like for both Rejuvenating Assault and Renewing Wave to have their cast time.Other than that and the straight-up removal of Surge of the Mists' wind-up, I don't think it needs any changes.I'm no big fan of flip-over skills, so I'm against merging Warding Rift and Surge of the Mists.

I like the ideas but would rather have them significantly shorten the precast and make it a targettable ability. Your new proposed 5th ability could be the flip skill of Warding Rift and leave SotM as the 5th. If they refuse to make SotM targettable (as in, homing in on the selected target), then they have to SEVERELY lower the precast to the point where it's almost nonexistent. It's so stupid that a skill that can litterally be sidedodged by simply moving sideways has such a long precast time.

@Virdo.1540 said:everything, but no staff 5 anymore

Not sure I understand what yu mean to say here.

@Fueki.4753 said:

amongst Core weapons, no other weapon set compliments Power builds, forcing Power builds to always take Sword/Sword and StaffI think Hammer compliments Sword/Sword on pure power builds rather well.Unless I'm playing a Heal or Support build I see no reason to pick staff.

Pve maybe, but Hammer is too slow for player vs player combat and doesn't have any synergies with any Legends.

@Yasai.3549 said:Hammer is too slow for player vs player combat

Using Hammer, I have flattened more than my fair share of players in PvP.But that was before the nerfs and destructions in February.

I suggest "yu" being spelt correctly.

Staff 5 just needs to be reverted.

@Yasai.3549 saidSkill 3 - Warding Rift > Surge of the MistsI would like Anet to consider putting Warding Rift and Surge of the Mists together.Warding Rift can serve as a tell for Surge of the Mists, so we can remove the SotM delay casting.It's not gonna be broken op either since both skills will now share a single cooldown (though maybe a reduced cooldown if the player only uses Warding Rift without casting the flip skill)And maybe put some damage into Surge of the Mists.

God no. I really don’t want to have to wait 2s to be able to use my biggest CC skill. That would be a horrible change for PvE and also remove even more of Surge’s use in PvP/WvW. Current surge is fine, albeit less easy to use in PvP/WvW, however it still functions well as an evade and is fairly balanced now. I think people are too caught up on using it for its CC now (And there ain’t even much of a window to capitalize on its CC anyway). After the nerfs, its main function has really become defense. I think the sooner people realize this the better.

They could give it back some damage Or remove the windup and it would still likely be fine, but we don’t need super complicated design decisions to try to remedy the perceived “problem.”

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

After the nerfs, its main function has really become defense. I think the sooner people realize this the better.

I'll be okay with this if they changed Staff Skill 1 to ranged.If Staff is to become purely defensive, I would much rather Staff become a ranged weapon.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

After the nerfs, its main function has really become defense. I think the sooner people realize this the better.

This. Seriously.

Just redo the hammer and turn it into a viable close ranged combat. Currently has no use in the game at those are 5 dead skill slots in a class with low amount of weapons.

As weak as current staff is, still can be used in PvE as a decent defiant bar breaker and in PvP/ roaming as a defensive tool gaining seconds for us for a while.

@Buran.3796 said:Just redo the hammer and turn it into a viable close ranged combat.

Does Revenant get Longbow as a new Core long range weapon, if Hammer becomes melee-ranged?

@Yasai.3549 said:

Unless hotfixed immediately, Anet NEVER reverts changes.

Not true.ANet nerfed Phase Traversal making it not work when the target was beyond 1.200 units. They had to revert the change due the uproar caused by the comparative grievieance: tons of classes still had available beyond max range teleports as Judge's Intervention from Guardian.

Oftenly ANets reverts changes when is caught batlantly incurring in contradictions or when using double standards.

Also I'm not asking for a return for the hammer to its previous form, since a lot of the pace was already lost years before when quickness was erased from Impossible Odds, the very day the hammer started to fade. What I'm asking is a complete redo of the weapon, prefereable as mele, and even better if is turned in a bunker weapon to support Jalis at tanking.

@Buran.3796 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:

Unless hotfixed immediately, Anet NEVER reverts changes.

Pretty sure they changed it to range requirement in the first place is because they thought maybe people wanted the "quality of life" of the attack part not landing. That's how out of touch they are.

Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks, or Kalla with the stunbreak initially in the healing skill. Or the release of the 5 slot weapons with 0 defenses or mobility as the shortbow, which makes almost useless for PvP (it gained some use lately due with the overall nerfs to global damage is easier to last longer with weak defenses), but on the other they release the trident with perma weakness in Jalis legend, perma vulnerability in Shiro and permanent proc of torment in Mallyx and burns in Glint... If Cantha really has a notable amount of underwater content I can see how they will nerf the weapon very soon. I'm at a point in just I no longer care.

@Buran.3796 said:Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks

Oh god Ventari.Yu know what's truly hilarious?Revenant being, at its core, a Profession which manages resources by flipping Legends often to keep up the momentum.

Then we have Ventari which totally kills itself by switching out of it, and an Elite which also, again, kills itself by destroying their entire Energy pool.

Imagine that : A Healing Legend which kills itself and not having a sub Healing Legend means yu essentially only heal half the time. (And I'm not considering Kalla as a Healer because she's predominantly a DPS buff to the entire group and can't pump out on demand healing.)

Oh the contradictions.And we still have no changes to Ventari, till today.Why?

i want to propose a different change for the damage output of staff. first of all i like the idea of staff 4 bursting unused healing bubbles, that sounds nice.but what i would change for damage is not surge of the mists but rather warding rift.

Warding Rift does two things: it blocks attacks and blinds enemies. it does no damage. this skill could get a damage addition on either of the two actions:Option 1 (defensive): If Warding Rift blocked an attack, a rift is created on the rev's position that behaves similar to Rift Slash and explodes after 1 sec in a small AoE.Option 2 (offensive): If Warding Rift blinds an enemy, a damaging chain skill is unlocked in the way staff 2 used to be.Option 3 (utility): Any hit that Warding Rift blocks grants Retaliation which would then add damage if Vicious Reprisal is traited.

so basically you want staff nerfed in pvp

@"Buran.3796" said:Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks, or Kalla with the stunbreak initially in the healing skill. Or the release of the 5 slot weapons with 0 defenses or mobility as the shortbow, which makes almost useless for PvP (it gained some use lately due with the overall nerfs to global damage is easier to last longer with weak defenses), but on the other they release the trident with perma weakness in Jalis legend, perma vulnerability in Shiro and permanent proc of torment in Mallyx and burns in Glint... If Cantha really has a notable amount of underwater content I can see how they will nerf the weapon very soon. I'm at a point in just I no longer care.

rofl yeah I saw people playing power shortbow and just lol...Everything got trashcanned so hard that shortbow "became viable". That's just pathetic really.

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Buran.3796" said:Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks, or Kalla with the stunbreak initially in the healing skill. Or the release of the 5 slot weapons with 0 defenses or mobility as the shortbow, which makes almost useless for PvP (it gained some use lately due with the overall nerfs to global damage is easier to last longer with weak defenses), but on the other they release the trident with perma weakness in Jalis legend, perma vulnerability in Shiro and permanent proc of torment in Mallyx and burns in Glint... If Cantha really has a notable amount of underwater content I can see how they will nerf the weapon very soon. I'm at a point in just I no longer care.

except shortbow shiro jalis is very fun to play and a good alternative to s/s herald and both have a distinct differentiation other then being simply dps and isn't braindead and actually take thoughts to play.which is a good thing, i don't know how you can laugh at "more things being viable, while not being overpowered"

shortbow shiro jalis actually has plenty of defenses as a build, you can't just be simply looking at one part of the entire build and say oh this lacks that, nop not how that works.and this build is also very demanding in terms of positioning which most of you whos used to s/s herald probably have no idea what that is since you are pure melee.try play some core necro and come back you will find an entire new world as power renegade.and shiro provide plenty of mobility.

@felix.2386 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Buran.3796" said:Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks, or Kalla with the stunbreak initially in the healing skill. Or the release of the 5 slot weapons with 0 defenses or mobility as the shortbow, which makes almost useless for PvP (it gained some use lately due with the overall nerfs to global damage is easier to last longer with weak defenses), but on the other they release the trident with perma weakness in Jalis legend, perma vulnerability in Shiro and permanent proc of torment in Mallyx and burns in Glint... If Cantha really has a notable amount of underwater content I can see how they will nerf the weapon very soon. I'm at a point in just I no longer care.

Yeah removing stuff from play so shortbow can not be as garbage seems like more diversity...Maybe they could have just made shortbow not garbage? But yeah I can appreciate the big brains behind turning on io and using sevenshot. Mindblowing game changer for anyone who has never done it with any of the other multi striker rev skills or lol glass bow sic em snipers.

@Justine.6351 said:

Maybe they could have just made shortbow not garbage? But yeah I can appreciate the big brains behind turning on io and using sevenshot. Mindblowing game changer for anyone who has never done it with any of the other multi striker rev skills or lol glass bow sic em snipers.

Guy probably thinks he is the first person to find out yu can use IO during SotM as well.

@Justine.6351 said:

@felix.2386 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Buran.3796" said:Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks, or Kalla with the stunbreak initially in the healing skill. Or the release of the 5 slot weapons with 0 defenses or mobility as the shortbow, which makes almost useless for PvP (it gained some use lately due with the overall nerfs to global damage is easier to last longer with weak defenses), but on the other they release the trident with perma weakness in Jalis legend, perma vulnerability in Shiro and permanent proc of torment in Mallyx and burns in Glint... If Cantha really has a notable amount of underwater content I can see how they will nerf the weapon very soon. I'm at a point in just I no longer care.

what do you mean by removing stuff from play, there's literally nothing that got removed from play that isn't braindead or simply toxic as build and it is really the overall stats of the game is lower.you arent really making any sense what so ever.

did braindead condi rev that actually require some brain to play now got removed? nodid s/s herald got removed? no, in fact s/s herald and power renegade excel against different comp which is very good.like what in the world are you talking about

if all you can think of power renegade is turning IO with seven shot, clearly you arent that deep with the class what so ever. too much wvw really has turned off your brain power.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

Maybe they could have just made shortbow not garbage? But yeah I can appreciate the big brains behind turning on io and using sevenshot. Mindblowing game changer for anyone who has never done it with any of the other multi striker rev skills or lol glass bow sic em snipers.

i also think none of you stand a chance against me in 1v1, no matter what build what class.

@felix.2386 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@felix.2386 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Buran.3796" said:Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks, or Kalla with the stunbreak initially in the healing skill. Or the release of the 5 slot weapons with 0 defenses or mobility as the shortbow, which makes almost useless for PvP (it gained some use lately due with the overall nerfs to global damage is easier to last longer with weak defenses), but on the other they release the trident with perma weakness in Jalis legend, perma vulnerability in Shiro and permanent proc of torment in Mallyx and burns in Glint... If Cantha really has a notable amount of underwater content I can see how they will nerf the weapon very soon. I'm at a point in just I no longer care.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

Maybe they could have just made shortbow not garbage? But yeah I can appreciate the big brains behind turning on io and using sevenshot. Mindblowing game changer for anyone who has never done it with any of the other multi striker rev skills or lol glass bow sic em snipers.

If all they did was number tweaks people would agree with you. Apparently you arnt experienced enough at the game to see everything else that was changed.

@Justine.6351 said:

@felix.2386 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@felix.2386 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Buran.3796" said:Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks, or Kalla with the stunbreak initially in the healing skill. Or the release of the 5 slot weapons with 0 defenses or mobility as the shortbow, which makes almost useless for PvP (it gained some use lately due with the overall nerfs to global damage is easier to last longer with weak defenses), but on the other they release the trident with perma weakness in Jalis legend, perma vulnerability in Shiro and permanent proc of torment in Mallyx and burns in Glint... If Cantha really has a notable amount of underwater content I can see how they will nerf the weapon very soon. I'm at a point in just I no longer care.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

Maybe they could have just made shortbow not garbage? But yeah I can appreciate the big brains behind turning on io and using sevenshot. Mindblowing game changer for anyone who has never done it with any of the other multi striker rev skills or lol glass bow sic em snipers.

Yea, all you saying is non sense and made up stuff.it's like some cult trying to promote their non existing god.at least i'm more experienced then some one who i can beat on all 9 classes and yes, that's you.