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Swampland fractal wisp puzzle

Is it really neccesery to exist. Alot pugs i played seems to be unable to sync it. Wouldnt it be easier to remove it and make a path to tread through to the secondery boss

Swampland fractal wisp puzzle 104 votes

Yes. Remove it
22%
TheSlothArmada.6709Susy.7529ArchonWing.9480sokeenoppa.5384Hannelore.8153Crystal Black.8190Teratus.2859Laila Lightness.8742DAN.7314Nightcore.5621Rosenaine.9851Psykewne.3025Mad Queen Malafide.7512Insomnus.9185Silvia.9130Firebeard.1746Raizel.1839kanemi.4903loiclegeek.8491threekings.3621 23 votes
No keep it
77%
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Comments

  • Arcaniaxs.4519Arcaniaxs.4519 Member ✭✭✭
    No keep it

    Thats the only thing making it kinda unique i guess... with enough knowlege of the area and traps or just using simple portals it isnt hard at all

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    Some classes can solo it in t4.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2020
    No keep it

    The only change it might need is an increase to the timer.
    30 seconds often aren't enough for T3 groups.

  • Friday.7864Friday.7864 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, all people have to do is watch a video and go in alone at T1 to try the paths a few times to learn them.
    That being said a lot of people don't want to put in any effort when it comes to fractals. People are the problem, not the fractal itself.
    Use a mesmer to make a portal for them if you want to make things easier for yourself, can always switch back to another class after wisps.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    There aren't enough puzzle challenges like it tbh.

    The game could use more of them.

  • Dean.3056Dean.3056 Member ✭✭
    No keep it

    Why I see every time in the forums people cry about mechanics / game modes ?

    Like when the community cried about "Slippery Slope" and "Birds" on fractals. Just because you fail and not good enough to face advanced mechanics doesn't mean it should be removed from the game. If it is too hard for you skip the day clear.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020
    No keep it

    Not sure what the point of removing it would be, it introduces a mechanic that ties into the last fight.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    Use a mesmer portal (or the raid equivalent White Mantle Portal device) if it's that bad , swap back after Mossman.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020
    No keep it

    Yes, I think we should remove everything and after clicking "join/enter/start/login", I should automatically receive the rewards for every activity I can't/don't want to complete.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020
    No keep it

    Its hard, yes, the difficulty step betwen t2 and t3 is surreal.

    Said this, this is the charm of the fractal, My only complain is that the game looks so dark without reshade and you can's see the beartraps, which screws you over if you step on one.

    Takes time to master, and a lot of group coordination. People underestimate the Invigorator Rifle Prototypes and its a good option if you don't have supporting skills to help people carrying the whisps.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020
    No keep it

    They already nerfed it to make the time limit 2-3 times as long to reduce failure. I don't see it needs removing

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Yes. Remove it

    The wisp puzzle is super simple and yet I constantly run into T3 groups that still don't get it. I don't think I have ever found it fun when my team does know what to do. And for that reason alone, I would vote in favor of removing it (and replacing it with something that IS fun).

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    @Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
    The wisp puzzle is super simple and yet I constantly run into T3 groups that still don't get it. I don't think I have ever found it fun when my team does know what to do. And for that reason alone, I would vote in favor of removing it (and replacing it with something that IS fun).

    It used to be 30sec on all levels. T3 is the first time now you have to do it like it was on release 7 years ago. T1 -T2 are just so easy that nobody learns any mechanic or puzzle there.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    No keep it

    People always complain of each fractal that has somewhat little diversity in gameplay. If you just want to autoattack some big boss to death, open world provides a lot of that type of content, leave fractals be.

  • No keep it

    Not played on T3, but T1-T2 I've not really seen an issue with it...even the boss one I've never had trouble with. (close calls but no fails)

    Now, that stupid ooze puzzle in Twlight Arbor on the other hand...

  • No keep it

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Is it really neccesery necessary to exist. Alot A lot of pugs i I played with seems to be unable to sync it. Wouldnt Wouldn't it be easier to remove it and make a path to tread through to the secondery secondary boss ?

    It's very necessary to have. It teaches a timed mechanic that's relevant later in the fight with Bloomhunger.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    PuG's need to learn that communication is important. This puzzle punishes lone wolves who see their team as meatshields.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    No keep it

    I will take the opportunity and put a link to a guide on those wisps by Murzielago for ppl who struggle with it and might find it useful:

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Is it really neccesery to exist. Alot pugs i played seems to be unable to sync it. Wouldnt it be easier to remove it and make a path to tread through to the secondery boss

    Let's remove the boss fights too while we're at it. It would be easier if we just got the loot automatically.

    If your team wins it's because of everyone else. If your team loses, blame the thief.
    ranger is OP but holo is more OP so its fine
    Why do this matter at all, you have people asking you why play so bad as fractal god?
    If they would pull that kitten on me, i would sue instantly. And i have enough time and money to finish that.
    Balance? More like a bunch of random nerfs done by interns.
    They're far from useless...you just got used to busted levels of dmg...welcome back to planet earth
    The first time someone sees you, they're already thinking about kicking you out of the party..........
    Welcome to WvW, where everything is just a little bit worse
    as in all things mmo, its simply magic. checkmate.

  • Yes. Remove it

    At least create some short cuts or extend the timings or something. I literally hate having to do swampland and the players kept leaving and leaving. I hated it.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    @medivh.4725 said:
    At least create some short cuts or extend the timings or something. I literally hate having to do swampland and the players kept leaving and leaving. I hated it.

    There are tons of shortcuts. It used to be 30sec even at level 1. Some classes can even solo it.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @medivh.4725 said:
    At least create some short cuts or extend the timings or something. I literally hate having to do swampland and the players kept leaving and leaving. I hated it.

    There are tons of shortcuts. It used to be 30sec even at level 1. Some classes can even solo it.

    They aren't the sort of shortcuts you stumble upon for a miraculous last second save. They're the sort of shortcuts you know through research and practice, and can feel kinda buggy with the weird collision, which kinda takes the fun out of it imho.

  • Yes. Remove it

    The furthest node always a problem. Many times none of the 5 in group have swift. Why don't you add a Swift interaction.
    Remove some wood logs open up some fast ways. I am playing at T3 and it is always problem

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2020
    No keep it

    Perfect example of making things easier leading to players never bothering to "learn" or improve at something. Back when the timer was 30s across the board, players were faced with having to "learn" how to do this mechanic.

    The timer is very generous in lower ranks as to give some leeway for players to learn and memorize how to get the wisps to the logs. Now if players just brainafk through every trap on the way, refuse to adjust builds (for personal swiftness or condi cleanse as example) and don't realize that they barely made the time on a lower rank, there should be no surprise that no actual player skill improvement takes place. Net result: a lot of inept players in T3.

    To reiterate:

    • the lower ranks of this fractal are intended to prepare you for the shorter timers in T3 and T4
    • being unable, unwilling, to stupid, or what ever reason to actually react to feedback the game gives and improve on it is personal player ineptitude
    • there are tons of guides available by now as to how to get each of the wisps to the logs for any player who wants to improve but is unable or unwilling to do so on their own
    • if far is such a huge issue learn to run far yourself, then worst case reset until only 1 far wisps spawns and you never have to deal with issues in this fractal again. Stop relying on others to carry you through this game
  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Perfect example of making things easier leading to players never bothering to "learn" or improve at something. Back when the timer was 30s across the board, players were faced with having to "learn" how to do this mechanic.

    Which, at the time when we still had "chains" of fractals instead of individual ones, led to two groups of players. First knew how to do it, so they rerolled until they got swamp as fist. Second didn't, so they rerolled if they got swamp at first.

    It's the same problem as, for example, jumping puzzle in shiverpeaks strike.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Perfect example of making things easier leading to players never bothering to "learn" or improve at something. Back when the timer was 30s across the board, players were faced with having to "learn" how to do this mechanic.

    Which, at the time when we still had "chains" of fractals instead of individual ones, led to two groups of players. First knew how to do it, so they rerolled until they got swamp as fist. Second didn't, so they rerolled if they got swamp at first.

    It's the same problem as, for example, jumping puzzle in shiverpeaks strike.

    Players intentionally skipping a fractal because they can't be bothered to learn how to run it just proves my point (and in the thousands of fractals I ran I've never had a group, neither then, before, nor now, where players intentionally skipped swamp). Also there was a time before chaining fractals where that too was not possible.

    Given how fractal rewards got changed and do not require a full set of 4, people are free to skip swamp and forgo part of the reward if they can't be bothered with improving at this part of the game.

    Working as intended I'd say.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Perfect example of making things easier leading to players never bothering to "learn" or improve at something. Back when the timer was 30s across the board, players were faced with having to "learn" how to do this mechanic.

    Which, at the time when we still had "chains" of fractals instead of individual ones, led to two groups of players. First knew how to do it, so they rerolled until they got swamp as fist. Second didn't, so they rerolled if they got swamp at first.

    It's the same problem as, for example, jumping puzzle in shiverpeaks strike.

    I knew molten facility skip was a thing because sometimes it was faster to do 2 fractals again instead of doing the 40m clown car. It was also a giant fiesta if nobody had a thief. Never heard of the swamp skip

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2020

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    I knew molten facility skip was a thing because sometimes it was faster to do 2 fractals again instead of doing the 40m clown car. It was also a giant fiesta if nobody had a thief. Never heard of the swamp skip

    It was mostly done in the casual groups. Nobody wanted to get stuck for next 30 minutes on wisp running part. It was completely normal for this part alone to take a significant part of the whole run. And no, i'm not even really exagerrating with those 30 minutes. Had this happening to me once.
    And since all you had to do was quit and restart (since swamp, if it rolled, it always rolled as first in the chain) it was extremely easy to do.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Learn the jumps onto the trees and it's super easy. I solo this as a Mesmer all the time too.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes. Remove it

    I don't often have trouble with it but I do find it to be quite an annoying and ultimately irrelevant part of the fractal that mostly just wastes your time at the start.

    I'd be fine with removing it.. although it would absolutely need to be replaced with something else, not just removed entirely.

    Off the top of my head i'm thinking that the best thing to remove would be the shifting maze part of the area and have that Giant Drake become etherial and roam around the area becoming the first "boss" of the fractal.
    The 3 Wisps would spawn like normal and have to be placed in the stumps like normal to make the boss vulnerable to damage just like final boss so you'd still get a much easier tutorial battle on the mechanics before fighting the Bloomhunger at the end of the fractal.

    But the whole running the wisps through the traps and maze bit.. yeah I don't care about that at all and would not complain if it was replaced with something better.
    Hell leave the traps around the area too and have the achievement become defeat the Drake without setting off a trap, that would be a lot more fun and challenging than the current get the Wisp to the stump without triggering a trap achievement.

  • No keep it

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @medivh.4725 said:
    At least create some short cuts or extend the timings or something. I literally hate having to do swampland and the players kept leaving and leaving. I hated it.

    There are tons of shortcuts. It used to be 30sec even at level 1. Some classes can even solo it.

    They aren't the sort of shortcuts you stumble upon for a miraculous last second save. They're the sort of shortcuts you know through research and practice, and can feel kinda buggy with the weird collision, which kinda takes the fun out of it imho.

    Wha? Nah man. Jumping up the roots is intended and doesn't look buggy at all.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @medivh.4725 said:
    The furthest node always a problem. Many times none of the 5 in group have swift. Why don't you add a Swift interaction.
    Remove some wood logs open up some fast ways. I am playing at T3 and it is always problem

    You do know that 1 of the skills on the guns laying around in the fractal give switftness to people infront of the shooter right?

  • No keep it

    I'd be really disappointed if it got removed. It rewards players for paying attention and mastering terrain/movement sensibilities. All of the patterns that are required to do the T3/T4 wisps can be learned on T1/T2 if you reset the nodes often enough. Players can also take innate swiftness/stun-breaks and incorporate them into their builds because there's a mistlock singularity before Mossman. I actually really enjoyed learning all these little niche tips/trick to get more comfortably through content.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No keep it

    I don't even know if I understand the problem. It's such an easy mechanic and a fast frac. Never heard of anyone skipping it or having issues with it.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2020
    No keep it

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Is it really neccesery to exist. Alot pugs i played seems to be unable to sync it. Wouldnt it be easier to remove it and make a path to tread through to the secondery boss

    @Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
    The wisp puzzle is super simple and yet I constantly run into T3 groups that still don't get it. I don't think I have ever found it fun when my team does know what to do. And for that reason alone, I would vote in favor of removing it (and replacing it with something that IS fun).

    i.m.o “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.”
    Try to imagine whereby a Junior is having difficulties with a subject in studies. Imo removing the subject from the exams is not the appropriate approach since they will lose the chance to gain knowledge.

    By removing it; Yes, will make it easier but it will also removed a learning experience to players. Experienced players might find it unnecessary since they've already perfected/memorized it but new players will not and might find difficulties later on when situation occurs.
    Instead of removing, maybe suggest to make the traps more visible for struggling players etc. or other better suggestions for improvement and quality.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2020
    Yes. Remove it

    Its unique but its also a waste of time. It adds nothing to the Fractal or the game in general. Other Fractals have more interesting mechanics, like the treasure in Siren's Reef that aren't just a waste of time and wipe bait.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 24 charas, 18k hours, 29k AP | ♀♥♀
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    By removing it; Yes, will make it easier but it will also removed a learning experience to players.

    What learing experience? Of jumping onto tree branches? What would that even be useful for?

    Experienced players might find it unnecessary since they've already perfected/memorized it but new players will not and might find difficulties later on when situation occurs.

    No, it is a completely unnecessary experience for anyone. The things it might teach you are not useful at all outside of this one specific encounter.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2020
    No keep it

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    By removing it; Yes, will make it easier but it will also removed a learning experience to players.

    What learing experience? Of jumping onto tree branches? What would that even be useful for?

    Experienced players might find it unnecessary since they've already perfected/memorized it but new players will not and might find difficulties later on when situation occurs.

    No, it is a completely unnecessary experience for anyone. The things it might teach you are not useful at all outside of this one specific encounter.

    So:

    • adapting to a situation or challenge via say taking movement speed skills,
    • using terrain advantageously,
    • slotting condition removal and stun breaks,
    • memorizing terrain and traps,
    • paying attention to enemy behavior and attacks,
    • using things like portal if available to assist

    are overall useless skills. Good to know. Those are all things which would make this challenge negligible or help in succeeding at it. That is of course only obvious to those who go beyond "duh, I no like running stuff, I not learn anything here" in their thought process but take into account what skills benefit this encounters success and how players are encouraged to figure those things out.

    If you want to judge if something is of value in teaching, you have to actually look at what skills the challenge might encourage and force players out of their comfort zone. Under that view point, the beginning of swamp and the immediate feedback of failure is one of the best designed challenges in this game. It is both flexible enough to not require players make all those adjustments, yet at the same time requires at least some of them for success.

    The fact that this encounter is designed in a specific way has absolutely no bearing on the possibility of players taking away a lesson or improving at the game in other areas. That is dependent on which skills are being encouraged, and as mentioned, those are plenty.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    By removing it; Yes, will make it easier but it will also removed a learning experience to players.

    What learing experience? Of jumping onto tree branches? What would that even be useful for?

    Experienced players might find it unnecessary since they've already perfected/memorized it but new players will not and might find difficulties later on when situation occurs.

    No, it is a completely unnecessary experience for anyone. The things it might teach you are not useful at all outside of this one specific encounter.

    So:

    • adapting to a situation or challenge via say taking movement speed skills,
    • using terrain advantageously,
    • slotting condition removal and stun breaks,
    • memorizing terrain and traps,
    • paying attention to enemy behavior and attacks,
    • using things like portal if available to assist

    are overall useless skills.

    You are way overgeneralizing here. For the most part, the only thing someone is going to learn there is the exact path they should run through. Nothing more. WHich, obviously, is of no use outside this specific instance.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2020
    No keep it

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    By removing it; Yes, will make it easier but it will also removed a learning experience to players.

    What learing experience? Of jumping onto tree branches? What would that even be useful for?

    Experienced players might find it unnecessary since they've already perfected/memorized it but new players will not and might find difficulties later on when situation occurs.

    No, it is a completely unnecessary experience for anyone. The things it might teach you are not useful at all outside of this one specific encounter.

    So:

    • adapting to a situation or challenge via say taking movement speed skills,
    • using terrain advantageously,
    • slotting condition removal and stun breaks,
    • memorizing terrain and traps,
    • paying attention to enemy behavior and attacks,
    • using things like portal if available to assist

    are overall useless skills.

    You are way overgeneralizing here. For the most part, the only thing someone is going to learn there is the exact path they should run through. Nothing more. WHich, obviously, is of no use outside this specific instance.

    the exact path works ONLY if you use some of the things I mentioned. Try running over trees and running into traps.

    You are essentially aruging from the perspective of someone who already HAS mastered this challenge. Suffice to say, if people have mastered using the terrain to their advantage AND avoiding all traps, they've already acquired some knowledge how to approach challenges in this game.

    Even then it is beneficial to take condi cleanse, avoid enemies and take swiftness.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wolfb.7025 said:
    Its hard, yes, the difficulty step betwen t2 and t3 is surreal.

    Said this, this is the charm of the fractal, My only complain is that the game looks so dark without reshade and you can's see the beartraps, which screws you over if you step on one.

    Takes time to master, and a lot of group coordination. People underestimate the Invigorator Rifle Prototypes and its a good option if you don't have supporting skills to help people carrying the whisps.

    Is reshade an extra for GW2? I have no end of difficulty seeing the traps in this fractal, even with post-processing turned off.