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Wanna revamp WvW?

Give every player who completed Diamond chest 50 gold at the end of the week if his server won. 25 gold if second place. 10 gold if third place.

Server switching will reward 0 gold for that week to prevent people switching to servers that are winning.

This way you bring way more people playing the gamemode. Which is half the time a desert with all the same 5 people you fight.

Comments

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree that WvW is the game mode most lacking in rewards but I don't think an extra 10-50 gold a week If you complete all the chests would be much incentive. I think speeding up rewards tracks would be an easier and better alternative.

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    What would a wvw player spend that gold on? Boosting reward tracks would make more sense to enable wvw players to get some of the char/account bound materials needed instead of being forced to pve.

    Don't know what the current coin to gold exchange rate is, but if I want more gold I can just use 15 minutes of my rl earnings to buy some GW currency and convert it to ingame gold using the exchange- why spend hours farming it?

  • Strages.2950Strages.2950 Member ✭✭✭

    @gnotshr.9136 said:
    .Reaching the diamond chest can be done very easily in the first couple days of a WvW match. After achieving the diamond chest, what would be the incentive to continue to play the rest of the week? Why play the game mode for 7 days when you can get full rewards in less than 2 days?

    If you're gold or above in rank and play 3-4 hours a day then sure, you'll be done by around tuesday-wednesday. If you're bronze, hitting that diamond chest can be quite an odyssey, especially if your team is losing.

    Imo, the people who have stuck with WvW over the years haven't done so for the loot, but I could be wrong.

    Truth. But rewards are still nice. That said, I dont know if gold is the way to go. I would personally like better sinks for badges.

  • gloflop.3510gloflop.3510 Member ✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    The biggest issue in my view regarding WvW is that anet is trying to cover too much and thus has no clear focus. Is WvW blob vs. blob fight? Is WvW zerg vs. zerg fights? Is WvW player vs. player fights? Is WvW the fight for structures? Is WvW outmaneuvering the enemy and like this capping/de-capping structures? Anet tries all at the same time and loses focus like this. If I say that WvW is solely blob vs. blob, I can delete all the structures and award points per kill. As more people kill together, as more points a server earns. In the contrary, if WvW is solely about strucutres, anet needs to discourage fights. As of now, we have everything together and all annoying each other. Also, anet does not know in which direction to develop. They in fact cannot make it right for everyone anyway.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gloflop.3510 said:
    They in fact cannot make it right for everyone anyway.

    Then what was up with all the earlier arguments, lol.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Throwing money at a problem doesn't always solve it. This also doesn't sound like a revamp, but a bribe to play. There are people who can't even finish the track every week because their wvw accounts are not veteran enough in levels and takes too much time.

    Throwing massive gold into the track isn't going to get people to suddenly play wvw when it would take them 20-30 hours to complete it, you're just rewarding the ones already playing it and getting their tracks done in 8 hours. And then you add in the condition of winning and well those veterans will stack even more now to make sure they get the win and their gold, Hi BG link.

    Personally haven't played wvw in 3 months. Throwing an extra 50 gold isn't a motivator for me to play. Getting fixes to balance, unscrewing mesmers, actually revamping wvw play, just might tho.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @gloflop.3510 said:
    The biggest issue in my view regarding WvW is that anet is trying to cover too much and thus has no clear focus. Is WvW blob vs. blob fight? Is WvW zerg vs. zerg fights? Is WvW player vs. player fights? Is WvW the fight for structures? Is WvW outmaneuvering the enemy and like this capping/de-capping structures? Anet tries all at the same time and loses focus like this. If I say that WvW is solely blob vs. blob, I can delete all the structures and award points per kill. As more people kill together, as more points a server earns. In the contrary, if WvW is solely about strucutres, anet needs to discourage fights. As of now, we have everything together and all annoying each other. Also, anet does not know in which direction to develop. They in fact cannot make it right for everyone anyway.

    This is like saying PvP doesn't make sense because there are control points but also you fight people.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @gloflop.3510 said:
    They in fact cannot make it right for everyone anyway.

    Then what was up with all the earlier arguments, lol.

    No
    I was showing different directions within WvW, different playing styles. Anet is trying to create a game mode for every kind of playing style instead of focussing on few (or one) and pushing them only. They try to make it right for everyone and make it wrong like this.

    Simple example: Imagine reset, you have a squad out there with 45 players and a queue. The squad wipes constantly since the enemy has a squad out with 50 players and some randoms around. The remaining players on your server are capping the entire map unopposed since the other servers only fight. Result is that nobody on your server has fun. Those who want to fight for structures are bored because there is no resistance and those who prefer open field battles are angry because they constantly wipe

    I gave you an example of what actually happend on one server. It is an extreme example. I want to illustrate the effect of the different types of players together on one map. They are standing in each others' way and nobody has fun. In my eyes, if you want to get WvW back, it should become more specialised.

  • @ASP.8093 said:

    @gloflop.3510 said:
    The biggest issue in my view regarding WvW is that anet is trying to cover too much and thus has no clear focus. Is WvW blob vs. blob fight? Is WvW zerg vs. zerg fights? Is WvW player vs. player fights? Is WvW the fight for structures? Is WvW outmaneuvering the enemy and like this capping/de-capping structures? Anet tries all at the same time and loses focus like this. If I say that WvW is solely blob vs. blob, I can delete all the structures and award points per kill. As more people kill together, as more points a server earns. In the contrary, if WvW is solely about strucutres, anet needs to discourage fights. As of now, we have everything together and all annoying each other. Also, anet does not know in which direction to develop. They in fact cannot make it right for everyone anyway.

    This is like saying PvP doesn't make sense because there are control points but also you fight people.

    You want to control points (structures) and fight people? I covered it with the definition "fighting for structures". However, there are also other types of players (e.g. GvG).

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gloflop.3510 said:
    I gave you an example of what actually happend on one server. It is an extreme example. I want to illustrate the effect of the different types of players together on one map. They are standing in each others' way and nobody has fun. In my eyes, if you want to get WvW back, it should become more specialised.

    Except you argued against that, since they cannot in fact make it right for everyone.

    WvW is a sandbox within the confines of WvW. If people keep doing what you describe for 8 years, it's not because they're not having fun, I would hope.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • I sometimes feel like the only person who pays 0 attention to rewards. I couldn't even tell you with complete certainty how Pips work.

    WvW throws lots of materials at you. Start selling or depositing them and I'm sure you'll make some profits, albeit over a longer period of time than what you might in PvE. I do know that Heavy Loot Bags sell for a few gold per stack and opening them can give you lots of valuable materials as well, so be sure to do something with those.

    I think it's important that WvW players are able to sustain themselves within WvW without there being necessity to do other things, and ANet has stated they want this as well. They want players to be able to do what ever their preferred mode is while making profits and progressing their gear. But due to the nature of WvW being dependent on player activity they need to be cautious about how much reward can be gained. If it's too easy to get rich it encourages stacking, combat avoidance, and farming like what we saw with EOTM. It creates another PvE environment that players can choose to make even easier by agreeing to avoid each other.

    Increasing rewards would be nice, but for the reasons I've outlined I don't think they should ever be increased much more than what they already are. If rewards become too great it will incentivize farming and drive away players who have stuck around for years for reasons other than loot.

    You cannot;
    Make rewards for killing others too great or exploits will occur like kill trading.
    Offer too much for capturing/defending objectives or it will create another EOTM.
    Make winning too important or stacking will destroy balance.
    Increase reward track profit too much or people who horde consumables will get instantly rich.

    Honestly, with how valuable Memory Of Battles' are right now, I think that's a pretty good and easy source of gold as is. If you need it to craft something, keep them. If you need gold, sell and you get like what, 35g per stack?

    My Youtube: Coconut Racecar
    Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley | [PANG] Save The Cave

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @gloflop.3510 said:
    I gave you an example of what actually happend on one server. It is an extreme example. I want to illustrate the effect of the different types of players together on one map. They are standing in each others' way and nobody has fun. In my eyes, if you want to get WvW back, it should become more specialised.

    Except you argued against that, since they cannot in fact make it right for everyone.

    WvW is a sandbox within the confines of WvW. If people keep doing what you describe for 8 years, it's not because they're not having fun, I would hope.

    I don't get you fully but I will try my best to reply. My claim is that there are multiple different types of players and anet is trying to comfort all of them instead of focussing on few or one and communicating it like this. The benefit would be to create an environment in which the few types of players are happy instead of everyone only a bit happy and a bit sad.

    That the gamemode has been working like this for 8 years is not an argument which I would accept. First, there have been changes in the gamemode during the period. I got the impression that WvW was initially designed as a "fight in and around and for structures". However, many players came and wanted fights only. So, anet tried to please these players as well. Second, gw2 WvW cannot be seen alone. There are also other games where simply the fun factor is higher for a certain type of player. So, player have a better choice these days.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    Most players in MMOs have little interest in difficult direct competitive encounters which is why PvP in MMOs is generally lackluster. PvP players tend to want to play PvP based games with a relatively balanced meta and fast respawns. RPG PvP really isn't a major genre in the gaming industry.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2020

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Throwing money at a problem doesn't always solve it. This also doesn't sound like a revamp, but a bribe to play. There are people who can't even finish the track every week because their wvw accounts are not veteran enough in levels and takes too much time.

    Throwing massive gold into the track isn't going to get people to suddenly play wvw when it would take them 20-30 hours to complete it, you're just rewarding the ones already playing it and getting their tracks done in 8 hours. And then you add in the condition of winning and well those veterans will stack even more now to make sure they get the win and their gold, Hi BG link.

    Personally haven't played wvw in 3 months. Throwing an extra 50 gold isn't a motivator for me to play. Getting fixes to balance, unscrewing mesmers, actually revamping wvw play, just might tho.

    +1

    very well said.

    I will add this quote, 'People Don’t Buy Products. They Buy Solutions to Their Problems'

    -continue--

    'This is what they do buy:
    They buy a SOLUTION to their PROBLEM.
    They buy the OUTCOME they really desire.'

    -continue-

    What’s the Problem?
    Here’s a vital thing to understand: Problems actually exist at 2 levels.

    1. The Outward Problem
      This is the obvious problem. It’s usually easy to spot.

    And that’s great. It’s important to know what the OUTWARD or external problem is for the customer.

    1. How it makes them feel?
      The REAL QUESTION is: How does this outward problem make them feel?

    What emotions does it create?

    It’s said that people actually buy on emotion – how they feel – and only after they’ve made the purchase do they try to justify the purchase with logic.

    Put another way – their desire to fix the emotional problem is far greater than their desire to solve the outward obvious problem, even if it’s justified later with rational decision making. So, if you can figure out both the outward problem and their inner feelings and emotions about it, you can speak to both of these throughout your entire marketing process.

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @losingcontrol.1084 said:
    Give every player who completed Diamond chest 50 gold at the end of the week if his server won. 25 gold if second place. 10 gold if third place.

    Server switching will reward 0 gold for that week to prevent people switching to servers that are winning.

    This way you bring way more people playing the gamemode. Which is half the time a desert with all the same 5 people you fight.

    I think I would only support this if the 0 gold for switching servers was for the duration of the link (8 weeks no gold). Anet hopefully is matchmaking somewhat even matches on relink, yet hundreds of players immediately bandwagon to either an easier tier (match) or to stack a link matched to a powerhouse host. The reason is simple, they want to win every fight all the time. Numbers is how you do that. Offering a monetary reward of in game gold is just a bad idea. One, it encourages the stacking, and two, it gives people free gold to buy gems and transfer with to restack at next relink.

    So sure, I'd be fine with better monetary rewards (prefereably not tied to "winning"), but if match placement affects it, than transfers can earn no gold rewards for 8 weeks after transferring, regardless of when the relinks occur.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020

    Money solves nothing. You can give people 20000 free gems at most scammy mobile game for free and people still won't play it. WvW was more alive when rewards were much worse due to better balance and pacing. Maybe you would get some PvE/daily grinders doing their weekly grind for gold.

    Overall WvW is just a dead horse due to bad infrastructural decisions and competitive balancing. The solutions were represented just to be ignored and now its too late now for steam release.

    Anet is just too proud to admit that they should revert some changes and actually be active with the gamemode until they enjoy it themselves. Not listen to some hurrdurrers that can't see past their own build and wallets.

    There is a belief that mathematician needs to accomplish great things in first 10 years of his career, else its too late. Same applies to game devs, they just have no imagination left. Need some fresh blood devs, people at their 20s.

    Riformed - On break from commanding
    Diamond Legend
    ~Waiting for them to fix WvW~

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Threather.9354 said:
    There is a belief that mathematician needs to accomplish great things in first 10 years of his career, else its too late. Same applies to game devs, they just have no imagination left. Need some fresh blood devs, people at their 20s.

    Yes because millenials have clearly shown themselves to be the most imaginative generation that will surely lead the human race to new heights.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Gorani.7205Gorani.7205 Member ✭✭✭

    You have to fix the "process", not the "result".
    Putting an extra reward at the end (the "result"), will do nothing, when the road to that (the "process") is unappealing (compared to other alternatives).
    If we see player population as a factor (and it is in WvW), you need to get a constant number of people on the WvW maps, to keep them "alive".
    A PvE or very casual WvW player needs to have a reason to spend his additional game time (e.g. on top of basic dailies) in WvW rather than in a PvE meta, a fractal or a strike mission.
    The veteran, high ranked, winning server, high pip generating player already gets way more out of WvW than the "lower decks soldier". Don't reward a Diamond chest, put more in Wood, Bronze, Silver on the way to make the "grunt" come back every week for a few minutes longer, so he will eventually be a veteran player in WvW.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would play more if I could trust anet to not nerf stuff by making it feel clunky to play. Don't need more gold.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Throwing money at a problem doesn't always solve it. This also doesn't sound like a revamp, but a bribe to play. There are people who can't even finish the track every week because their wvw accounts are not veteran enough in levels and takes too much time.

    Throwing massive gold into the track isn't going to get people to suddenly play wvw when it would take them 20-30 hours to complete it, you're just rewarding the ones already playing it and getting their tracks done in 8 hours. And then you add in the condition of winning and well those veterans will stack even more now to make sure they get the win and their gold, Hi BG link.

    Personally haven't played wvw in 3 months. Throwing an extra 50 gold isn't a motivator for me to play. Getting fixes to balance, unscrewing mesmers, actually revamping wvw play, just might tho.

    +1

    very well said.

    I will add this quote, 'People Don’t Buy Products. They Buy Solutions to Their Problems'

    -continue--

    'This is what they do buy:
    They buy a SOLUTION to their PROBLEM.
    They buy the OUTCOME they really desire.'

    -continue-

    What’s the Problem?
    Here’s a vital thing to understand: Problems actually exist at 2 levels.

    1. The Outward Problem
      This is the obvious problem. It’s usually easy to spot.

    And that’s great. It’s important to know what the OUTWARD or external problem is for the customer.

    1. How it makes them feel?
      The REAL QUESTION is: How does this outward problem make them feel?

    What emotions does it create?

    It’s said that people actually buy on emotion – how they feel – and only after they’ve made the purchase do they try to justify the purchase with logic.

    Put another way – their desire to fix the emotional problem is far greater than their desire to solve the outward obvious problem, even if it’s justified later with rational decision making. So, if you can figure out both the outward problem and their inner feelings and emotions about it, you can speak to both of these throughout your entire marketing process.

    You realise that you've wrote nothing here, right? You didn't share any opinion, you didn't even respond to the person you've quoted. The quote you've included also doesn't seem to be related to the specifics of this thread. So what is this post? Are you trying to teach basic marketing strategies to the anet's marketing team or what point are you trying to make here?

    Also randomly adding "-continue-" every 3 sentences achieves nothing.

  • I played WvW today, I am in Vabbi server. I am still struggling to experience a decently designed and balanced game as the whole maps were overwhelmed and controlled by greens, most of them Elona Reach DE. I suggest ArenaNet to fire all their current employees and directors working on the PvP modes and build a decent team who can create some enjoyable content for those who are playing in a low populated world and are not members of a large guild. I am very disappointed in what this game has to offer as PvP content. What exactly did you do all these years? I can't believe my eyes what I had to experience today as my first time WvW experience...

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    I can't believe my eyes what I had to experience today as my first time WvW experience...

    This is literally like turning on the tap water, declaring it's too warm to drink and you'll never drink water again.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2020

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I agree that WvW is the game mode most lacking in rewards but I don't think an extra 10-50 gold a week If you complete all the chests would be much incentive. I think speeding up rewards tracks would be an easier and better alternative.

    Wvw rewards everything u do by every minutes with: partecipation, ranks, bags, cap, nodes, chests, rewards tracks items and mats, RNG drops, ascended items, legendary armor.. looks quite nice in theory.
    I get completelly with iventory filed withing just a few minutes, i have to stop caring about the iventory management if i want to play..
    WHen encumbered slowed down the player i was always getting encumbered... every 20-30 minutes, sometimes less.

    By the other hand.... yet... i can somehwat agree with you :\

    WvW m8 be rewarding actually to much actually... but rewarding to much trash items than actually rewarding for what players are there fore, but that was always one of WvW issues and why was never that much rewarding.

    IMO its due game is all about cap and leave to cap next not defended structure , game lacks obgectives and reasons besides PPT.

    Sorry the bad english:\

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭
    edited October 25, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    I can't believe my eyes what I had to experience today as my first time WvW experience...

    This is literally like turning on the tap water, declaring it's too warm to drink and you'll never drink water again.

    It makes sense when the water runs cold every single day, I would call it a problem if I had no access to hot water at all

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2020

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    I can't believe my eyes what I had to experience today as my first time WvW experience...

    This is literally like turning on the tap water, declaring it's too warm to drink and you'll never drink water again.

    It makes sense when the water runs cold every single day, I would call it a problem if I had no access to hot water at all

    Well? Is it a problem or not then? Today FSP+Vabbi has nearly caught up with Elona in score and is currently holding T3 SM. Also FSP+Vabbi still have 1.4 kdr vs Elonas 0.9. Who wins, who looses? Who knows. But saying what you said after 1 day of WvW is still silly no matter how the week ends.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    I can't believe my eyes what I had to experience today as my first time WvW experience...

    This is literally like turning on the tap water, declaring it's too warm to drink and you'll never drink water again.

    It makes sense when the water runs cold every single day, I would call it a problem if I had no access to hot water at all

    Well? Is it a problem or not then? Today FSP+Vabbi has nearly caught up with Elona in score and is currently holding T3 SM. Also FSP+Vabbi still have 1.4 kdr vs Elonas 0.9. Who wins, who looses? Who knows. But saying what you said after 1 day of WvW is still silly no matter how the week ends.

    The other day FSP was full and I couldn't even join straight away and greens were still dominating the other maps and half the map where FSP was full up. Definitely not a valid point to support your argument as greens are overwhelmingly dominating WvW maps on average.