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Thoughts on today's "balance"?

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  • Sifu.9745Sifu.9745 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ouk.5914 said:
    **Profession Skills
    **Elementalist
    Tornado: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 120 seconds in PvP only.

    Funny, because Tornado has 150 sec cd, so i don't get that "nerf".

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    changes are holo are huge

    Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit: Reduced might stacks per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
    this one is huge
    Supply Crate: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 120 seconds in PvP only. Reduced stun duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    and this one is also so good

    1.5 second on blind is ok, but the two above, specially the first one is huge.

    and finally something done about braindead symbol core guard, which i like.

    stealth on steal is nerf, also really good.

    decap engi nerf good,

    tornado nerfed good.

    i'm not sure if power renegade still works after the shave tho, need to test, don't really want it to be unplayable.
    quite a funny build and should be competing with s/s herald.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    All good changes for the long-term health of PvP. That said, the flash-bang nerf completely missed the point and needs to be completely reworked. Also, revive skills were not touched so I guess I'm still not PvPing for a while. This patch has made me realize that they are probably putting all their resources into designing the new elite specs so they are letting balance fall to the wayside until the expansion. Hope it's worth it. . .

    Thats because cmc is not allowed to balance skills, e.g. he cannot change what a skill does.

    Source?

    The posts made about changes from CMC stated he wanted to START with number/value changes to get a base line, as they would be easy changes that could be done right away. Skills he stated were now going to be split between all modes and that skill changes were indeed possible (and have been done), however the changes have to be passed to the skills team to review and make as they might involve new animations, sounds, effects etc etc. and as such take longer to do....We are now months and months into this, long past any reasonable time frame to get some serious changes done to skills.

    The source are postings by anet when they introduced cmc for competitive class balance. I am not aware of any skill changes coming from cmc other than recast time or numbers. Are you refering to mirage traits when you say there were such changes?
    However this was not a full balance patch. More like a pvp hotfix patch which would not change what a skill does anyway.

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zee.1294 said:
    Only thing i can say is BOOOOOOOO....ANet .. you are going down.....Waiting 3monts for BALANCE end we Get HALLOKITENWEEN ...Oh Wait... we gona wait another 2 weeks for 3 day work Patch cause they are very busy doing some EXPAC for 2022.......BOOOOOO....You DONT GET IT DO YA.....If a player dont have fun playing, no content will ever make him play your game!!!!!!!!........................I em Tired of You ANet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR CRY SAKE >>>>>Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.....WHY? Can Someone explain ....WHY ?

    Bc symbol guard is cancer

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    All good changes for the long-term health of PvP. That said, the flash-bang nerf completely missed the point and needs to be completely reworked. Also, revive skills were not touched so I guess I'm still not PvPing for a while. This patch has made me realize that they are probably putting all their resources into designing the new elite specs so they are letting balance fall to the wayside until the expansion. Hope it's worth it. . .

    Thats because cmc is not allowed to balance skills, e.g. he cannot change what a skill does.

    Source?

    The posts made about changes from CMC stated he wanted to START with number/value changes to get a base line, as they would be easy changes that could be done right away. Skills he stated were now going to be split between all modes and that skill changes were indeed possible (and have been done), however the changes have to be passed to the skills team to review and make as they might involve new animations, sounds, effects etc etc. and as such take longer to do....We are now months and months into this, long past any reasonable time frame to get some serious changes done to skills.

    he said several times that he can't do skill changes

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Zee.1294 said:
    Only thing i can say is BOOOOOOOO....ANet .. you are going down.....Waiting 3monts for BALANCE end we Get HALLOKITENWEEN ...Oh Wait... we gona wait another 2 weeks for 3 day work Patch cause they are very busy doing some EXPAC for 2022.......BOOOOOO....You DONT GET IT DO YA.....If a player dont have fun playing, no content will ever make him play your game!!!!!!!!........................I em Tired of You ANet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR CRY SAKE >>>>>Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.....WHY? Can Someone explain ....WHY ?

    Bc symbol guard is cancer

    Well by your logic, what do we have left? An even more lazy core burn build? Have fun with that

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    All good changes for the long-term health of PvP. That said, the flash-bang nerf completely missed the point and needs to be completely reworked. Also, revive skills were not touched so I guess I'm still not PvPing for a while. This patch has made me realize that they are probably putting all their resources into designing the new elite specs so they are letting balance fall to the wayside until the expansion. Hope it's worth it. . .

    Thats because cmc is not allowed to balance skills, e.g. he cannot change what a skill does.

    Source?

    The posts made about changes from CMC stated he wanted to START with number/value changes to get a base line, as they would be easy changes that could be done right away. Skills he stated were now going to be split between all modes and that skill changes were indeed possible (and have been done), however the changes have to be passed to the skills team to review and make as they might involve new animations, sounds, effects etc etc. and as such take longer to do....We are now months and months into this, long past any reasonable time frame to get some serious changes done to skills.

    The source are postings by anet when they introduced cmc for competitive class balance. I am not aware of any skill changes coming from cmc other than recast time or numbers. Are you refering to mirage traits when you say there were such changes?
    However this was not a full balance patch. More like a pvp hotfix patch which would not change what a skill does anyway.

    Can you link the post?

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    All good changes for the long-term health of PvP. That said, the flash-bang nerf completely missed the point and needs to be completely reworked. Also, revive skills were not touched so I guess I'm still not PvPing for a while. This patch has made me realize that they are probably putting all their resources into designing the new elite specs so they are letting balance fall to the wayside until the expansion. Hope it's worth it. . .

    Thats because cmc is not allowed to balance skills, e.g. he cannot change what a skill does.

    Source?

    The posts made about changes from CMC stated he wanted to START with number/value changes to get a base line, as they would be easy changes that could be done right away. Skills he stated were now going to be split between all modes and that skill changes were indeed possible (and have been done), however the changes have to be passed to the skills team to review and make as they might involve new animations, sounds, effects etc etc. and as such take longer to do....We are now months and months into this, long past any reasonable time frame to get some serious changes done to skills.

    he said several times that he can't do skill changes

    Link?

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    I would cry like people in these comments if the changes were actually small and insignificant, like i did with almost all the other patches since feb 2020
    but this one actually look good, took them long enough tho

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If they knew what was strong already, why did this small patch take a million years? I know the answer, but it's funny.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Zee.1294 said:
    Only thing i can say is BOOOOOOOO....ANet .. you are going down.....Waiting 3monts for BALANCE end we Get HALLOKITENWEEN ...Oh Wait... we gona wait another 2 weeks for 3 day work Patch cause they are very busy doing some EXPAC for 2022.......BOOOOOO....You DONT GET IT DO YA.....If a player dont have fun playing, no content will ever make him play your game!!!!!!!!........................I em Tired of You ANet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR CRY SAKE >>>>>Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.....WHY? Can Someone explain ....WHY ?

    Bc symbol guard is cancer

    But does this change really solve the problem? Why not nerf the damage bonus from zeal? And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    All good changes for the long-term health of PvP. That said, the flash-bang nerf completely missed the point and needs to be completely reworked. Also, revive skills were not touched so I guess I'm still not PvPing for a while. This patch has made me realize that they are probably putting all their resources into designing the new elite specs so they are letting balance fall to the wayside until the expansion. Hope it's worth it. . .

    Thats because cmc is not allowed to balance skills, e.g. he cannot change what a skill does.

    Source?

    The posts made about changes from CMC stated he wanted to START with number/value changes to get a base line, as they would be easy changes that could be done right away. Skills he stated were now going to be split between all modes and that skill changes were indeed possible (and have been done), however the changes have to be passed to the skills team to review and make as they might involve new animations, sounds, effects etc etc. and as such take longer to do....We are now months and months into this, long past any reasonable time frame to get some serious changes done to skills.

    The source are postings by anet when they introduced cmc for competitive class balance. I am not aware of any skill changes coming from cmc other than recast time or numbers. Are you refering to mirage traits when you say there were such changes?
    However this was not a full balance patch. More like a pvp hotfix patch which would not change what a skill does anyway.

    Can you link the post?

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    All good changes for the long-term health of PvP. That said, the flash-bang nerf completely missed the point and needs to be completely reworked. Also, revive skills were not touched so I guess I'm still not PvPing for a while. This patch has made me realize that they are probably putting all their resources into designing the new elite specs so they are letting balance fall to the wayside until the expansion. Hope it's worth it. . .

    Thats because cmc is not allowed to balance skills, e.g. he cannot change what a skill does.

    Source?

    The posts made about changes from CMC stated he wanted to START with number/value changes to get a base line, as they would be easy changes that could be done right away. Skills he stated were now going to be split between all modes and that skill changes were indeed possible (and have been done), however the changes have to be passed to the skills team to review and make as they might involve new animations, sounds, effects etc etc. and as such take longer to do....We are now months and months into this, long past any reasonable time frame to get some serious changes done to skills.

    he said several times that he can't do skill changes

    Link?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90773/lets-talk-about-pvp-balance/p1

    First part of the first post states "It’s certainly true that not all issues can be addressed through splits, and we will continue to work with the skills team to make sure we are making the right changes for the entire game when splitting is not a viable option."
    This was one year ago. I think there are a few skills like the one we are discussing here where it is no viable option to have a skill split, e.g. reducing a blind duration in PvP instead of reworking the skill. Yet there have been no skills changed for PvP after that post I think. The referenced post clearly states that such changes depend on the skills team.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    Wait.. so that was the actual balance patch? Wut the... Waiting for so long to get this o.O this is crazy. At what point enough is enough? So many people are still hopeful and waiting for meaningful changes.. and we get this.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Zee.1294 said:
    Only thing i can say is BOOOOOOOO....ANet .. you are going down.....Waiting 3monts for BALANCE end we Get HALLOKITENWEEN ...Oh Wait... we gona wait another 2 weeks for 3 day work Patch cause they are very busy doing some EXPAC for 2022.......BOOOOOO....You DONT GET IT DO YA.....If a player dont have fun playing, no content will ever make him play your game!!!!!!!!........................I em Tired of You ANet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR CRY SAKE >>>>>Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.....WHY? Can Someone explain ....WHY ?

    Bc symbol guard is cancer

    But does this change really solve the problem? Why not nerf the damage bonus from zeal? And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

    Because AoE spam and visual cluster is toxic for the game.
    and that keeping the damage and giving less radius demands more skillful play and you can still do nice cleave and etc.
    but nerfing damage and keeping the radius keep the braindeadness and just a flat shave on the build may even completely destroy it, which is not good.

    not hard to understand

    However, this skill was always like that and was not an issue, or even meta. It was mainly used for healing. Why do you think it became a problem in the last year or so? Unnecessary damage buff. What should be nerfed? Also, do you really think the symbol without it has a small radius? It still covers the majority of the point... So, no, it does not add skillful play. This what happens when people do not understand the classes/builds/issues make changes. They needed to nerf the damage. AOE spam should not be game play. Reducing the AOE radius alone, is no where close to enough, when the symbol has 180 base radius.

    AOE ground damage should not be a good damage source for guardian or any class, in any game mode, under any circumstance.

  • Even when a balance patch comes out you all cry. If nothing anet does can satisfy you then devote your energy to a different game.

    Shocking aura has counterplay. Projectile denile is what needs a bit of a nerf.

    The engi changes are a good. Decrap scrapper seems lazy but i think cmc wanted to tone down the cc spam and barrier uptime.

    These changes are minor but do what everyone asked for. And you still complain. Mind boggling.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @pikachu.2510 said:
    Ele isn't dead yet so not good enough

    LMAO I can see the struggle they have while deciding how to nerf ele even more..like...:" what's left to nerf on this class?" it's their likely question hahaha, hey CMC I can give you few ideas :

    1) Increase CD of Fiery greatsword to 300s
    2) Increase CD of shocking aura to 45s CD
    3) Make overload 60s between each use or now they share CD..or better add both of them
    4) Just to make sure ele doesn't overperform increase CD of arcane shield to 75s
    5) Decrease dmg of Lightning Rod from 250 base dmg...to 50...for purity of purpose

    Also make sure ele can't use mele weapons any longer.
    Game is ded. Glad I quit.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Zee.1294 said:
    Only thing i can say is BOOOOOOOO....ANet .. you are going down.....Waiting 3monts for BALANCE end we Get HALLOKITENWEEN ...Oh Wait... we gona wait another 2 weeks for 3 day work Patch cause they are very busy doing some EXPAC for 2022.......BOOOOOO....You DONT GET IT DO YA.....If a player dont have fun playing, no content will ever make him play your game!!!!!!!!........................I em Tired of You ANet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR CRY SAKE >>>>>Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.....WHY? Can Someone explain ....WHY ?

    Bc symbol guard is cancer

    But does this change really solve the problem? Why not nerf the damage bonus from zeal? And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

    Because AoE spam and visual cluster is toxic for the game.
    and that keeping the damage and giving less radius demands more skillful play and you can still do nice cleave and etc.
    but nerfing damage and keeping the radius keep the braindeadness and just a flat shave on the build may even completely destroy it, which is not good.

    not hard to understand

    However, this skill was always like that and was not an issue, or even meta. It was mainly used for healing. Why do you think it became a problem in the last year or so? Unnecessary damage buff. What should be nerfed? Also, do you really think the symbol without it has a small radius? It still covers the majority of the point... So, no, it does not add skillful play. This what happens when people do not understand the classes/builds/issues make changes. They needed to nerf the damage. AOE spam should not be game play. Reducing the AOE radius alone, is no where close to enough, when the symbol has 180 base radius.

    AOE ground damage should not be a good damage source for guardian or any class, in any game mode, under any circumstance.

    You realize anything that's not single target is AoE right, warrior greatsword auto attack is AoE, what makes an AoE more toxic, is how big it is and how spammable it is.
    not sure what do you mean by "damage shouldn't come from AoE" when every thing damage in this game is AoE except single target ones.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Is the nerf on guardian that hard to call it dead?

    I mean it still looks like a strong v1 just wont do that much dmg and bigger fights

  • Zee.1294Zee.1294 Member ✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Even when a balance patch comes out you all cry. If nothing anet does can satisfy you then devote your energy to a different game.

    Yo...Are you calling this BS pach Satisfaction ?.....Guess what.... fanboy ... i all ready em on different game 3 years ago.....have fun playing your Satisfactory game..
    If you having fun waiting 3 monts for this kiten end then prize ANet how good job they are doing....well then.. i guess you are perfect match....Chao!

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:
    Hello PvP community,

    Are you upset or angry your favorite build is no longer viable?
    Want to enjoy it some more?
    Fear not.
    Just pop over to WvW.
    We don't get balance patches cos everythings balanced there and you can enjoy your favorite builds to your hearts content.
    Come over, kill noobs, cos no matter how much that community complains, nothing happens.

    Just look at PvP after CMC took over and watch WvW...I'd be you I'd pray daily to make sure he never gets there.....unless you play a rev/engi/guard/necro like his buddies over Discord

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    I give it a "B" on the "A~F" scale

    Good ideas:
    -The change to Writ of Persistence is the best change to guardian and exactly what needed to be done, as it reduces the braindead stand-on-point-press-symbols playstyle, but doesn't actually reduce the classes numbers in any way. Doing nothing else to Guardian was also wise, as this change effects pretty much every single Guardian build in a positive light. So high marks for this.
    -Severely toning down the CC and barrier Gain of decap engie is also a good idea. The build was degenerate and bad for the game.
    -"Just increase the cooldown" changes generally miss the mark, but Tornado was too spammable.

    Questionable:
    -Nerfing damage on Holosmith and Revenant too much can potentially have disastrous consequences. We are already on the verge of bunker/support meta enough as it is.
    -Stealth really just needs to be reworked. There have been several suggestions on how to make it better. Nerfing the duration this much is more of a feels-bad change that just makes thief feel less fun to play. SSA thief did need a nerf, but this doesn't seem like the right nerf.
    -Warrior ignored
    -WvW? A lot of these issues also exist in WvW.

    Bad:
    -Nerfing everything on engineer EXCEPT explosive entrance is not the way to go. EE is a badly designed cheese-trait, and once again Anet is making the self-destructive mistake of nerfing around the cheese instead of actually addressing problems at their core. When EE finally does get a proper nerf, engie will likely come out drastically underpowered.
    -Necromancer got a free pass, and will likely now be overpowered.
    -A lot of what makes support Tempest strong, mainly the shock-aura spam, got a free pass. Since damage was nerfed this patch, and Tempest was already an S-tier pick, Tempest will now be broken.

  • @Zee.1294 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Even when a balance patch comes out you all cry. If nothing anet does can satisfy you then devote your energy to a different game.

    Yo...Are you calling this BS pach Satisfaction ?.....Guess what.... fanboy ... i all ready em on different game 3 years ago.....have fun playing your Satisfactory game..
    If you having fun waiting 3 monts for this kiten end then prize ANet how good job they are doing....well then.. i guess you are perfect match....Chao!

    And yet here you are. On the forums complaining about the game. At least im realistic with my expectations from anet.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    I give it a B

    Good ideas:
    -The change to Writ of Persistence is the best change to guardian and exactly what needed to be done, as it reduces the braindead stand-on-point-press-symbols playstyle, but doesn't actually reduce the classes numbers in any way. Doing nothing else to Guardian was also wise, as this change effects pretty much every single Guardian build in a positive light. So high marks for this.
    -Severely toning down the CC and barrier Gain of decap engie is also a good idea. The build was degenerate and bad for the game.
    -"Just increase the cooldown" changes generally miss the mark, but Tornado was too spammable.

    Questionable:
    -Nerfing damage on Holosmith and Revenant too much can potentially have disastrous consequences. We are already on the verge of bunker/support meta enough as it is.
    -Stealth really just needs to be reworked. There have been several suggestions on how to make it better. Nerfing the duration this much is more of a feels-bad change that just makes thief feel less fun to play.
    -Warrior ignored
    -WvW? A lot of these issues also exist in WvW.

    Bad:
    -Nerfing everything on engineer EXCEPT explosive entrance is not the way to go. EE is a badly designed cheese-trait, and once again Anet is making the self-destructive mistake of nerfing around the cheese instead of actually addressing problems at their core. When EE finally does get a proper nerf, engie will likely come out drastically underpowered.
    -Necromancer got a free pass, and will likely now be overpowered.
    -A lot of what makes support Tempest strong, mainly the shock-aura spam, got a free pass. Since damage was nerfed this patch, and Tempest was already an S-tier pick, Tempest will now be broken.

    I still don't get why they keep EE as is, every skill that works like it was nerfed long ago cause passive damage was not cool, the whole trait is random damage but not really, for the receiver is random but the engi can control when, so it is dodge everything cause you might get bapped by a skill that does 1 or 2 k usually for 5k, i think we moved on from that just dodge everything days but not for engi.
    Lich has to shift its power around all skills instead of being press 1 several times kill someone, this skill should be a power shift in a battle for its 150s cd and be powerful enough to make people threatened, but not an I win button.
    Tempest idk i don't like chain CC and i don't like that my stunbreaks do nothing if they don't have added special effect like daze or teleport out.
    Also thief nerfs don't matter, their issue is that currently they cannot be truly pressured off, disabling skills don't work on them, for one it is really hard to land any skill on then by design but since cc skills don't do damage they can just stunbreak without taking any damage and continue attacking, so you have to be tanky enough to weather the assault or be bursty enough in a single big hit to scare them away. The whole idea of the cc skills to do not do damage is to make them tempo skills for combinations but this falls apart vs thief since you can't do follow up.

  • dtox.8397dtox.8397 Member ✭✭

    @Dave.6819 said:
    Wait.. so that was the actual balance patch? Wut the... Waiting for so long to get this o.O this is crazy. At what point enough is enough? So many people are still hopeful and waiting for meaningful changes.. and we get this.

    yup, i gave up for now. I think its time to take another big break

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Zee.1294 said:
    Only thing i can say is BOOOOOOOO....ANet .. you are going down.....Waiting 3monts for BALANCE end we Get HALLOKITENWEEN ...Oh Wait... we gona wait another 2 weeks for 3 day work Patch cause they are very busy doing some EXPAC for 2022.......BOOOOOO....You DONT GET IT DO YA.....If a player dont have fun playing, no content will ever make him play your game!!!!!!!!........................I em Tired of You ANet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR CRY SAKE >>>>>Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.....WHY? Can Someone explain ....WHY ?

    Bc symbol guard is cancer

    But does this change really solve the problem? Why not nerf the damage bonus from zeal? And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

    Because AoE spam and visual cluster is toxic for the game.
    and that keeping the damage and giving less radius demands more skillful play and you can still do nice cleave and etc.
    but nerfing damage and keeping the radius keep the braindeadness and just a flat shave on the build may even completely destroy it, which is not good.

    not hard to understand

    However, this skill was always like that and was not an issue, or even meta. It was mainly used for healing. Why do you think it became a problem in the last year or so? Unnecessary damage buff. What should be nerfed? Also, do you really think the symbol without it has a small radius? It still covers the majority of the point... So, no, it does not add skillful play. This what happens when people do not understand the classes/builds/issues make changes. They needed to nerf the damage. AOE spam should not be game play. Reducing the AOE radius alone, is no where close to enough, when the symbol has 180 base radius.

    AOE ground damage should not be a good damage source for guardian or any class, in any game mode, under any circumstance.

    You realize anything that's not single target is AoE right, warrior greatsword auto attack is AoE, what makes an AoE more toxic, is how big it is and how spammable it is.
    not sure what do you mean by "damage shouldn't come from AoE" when every thing damage in this game is AoE except single target ones.

    There is a difference. Guardian symbols are 180 radius aoe that you set on the ground, lasts for 6 secs (with then trait). It covers most of the point, and can be kept up most of the time. No interruption possible to it. You want to fight the guardian in melee or stand on the point? No option but to take damage. Compared to sword aa, which is directional, in close range and requires continuous action from the player, thus can be interrupted. This is why I said “ground aoe.” I know it is not super clear.

    One point to add, guardian symbols, relative to over all damage and sustainability, was on the lower side pre Feb. It became a problem after the Feb patch. Not necessarily cuz it does more damage, but the lower damage output makes game play focused on things like spamming symbols, not only possible, but ideal.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Zee.1294 said:
    Only thing i can say is BOOOOOOOO....ANet .. you are going down.....Waiting 3monts for BALANCE end we Get HALLOKITENWEEN ...Oh Wait... we gona wait another 2 weeks for 3 day work Patch cause they are very busy doing some EXPAC for 2022.......BOOOOOO....You DONT GET IT DO YA.....If a player dont have fun playing, no content will ever make him play your game!!!!!!!!........................I em Tired of You ANet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR CRY SAKE >>>>>Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.....WHY? Can Someone explain ....WHY ?

    Bc symbol guard is cancer

    But does this change really solve the problem? Why not nerf the damage bonus from zeal? And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

    Because AoE spam and visual cluster is toxic for the game.
    and that keeping the damage and giving less radius demands more skillful play and you can still do nice cleave and etc.
    but nerfing damage and keeping the radius keep the braindeadness and just a flat shave on the build may even completely destroy it, which is not good.

    not hard to understand

    However, this skill was always like that and was not an issue, or even meta. It was mainly used for healing. Why do you think it became a problem in the last year or so? Unnecessary damage buff. What should be nerfed? Also, do you really think the symbol without it has a small radius? It still covers the majority of the point... So, no, it does not add skillful play. This what happens when people do not understand the classes/builds/issues make changes. They needed to nerf the damage. AOE spam should not be game play. Reducing the AOE radius alone, is no where close to enough, when the symbol has 180 base radius.

    AOE ground damage should not be a good damage source for guardian or any class, in any game mode, under any circumstance.

    You realize anything that's not single target is AoE right, warrior greatsword auto attack is AoE, what makes an AoE more toxic, is how big it is and how spammable it is.
    not sure what do you mean by "damage shouldn't come from AoE" when every thing damage in this game is AoE except single target ones.

    There is a difference. Guardian symbols are 180 radius aoe that you set on the ground, lasts for 6 secs (with then trait). It covers most of the point, and can be kept up most of the time. No interruption possible to it. You want to fight the guardian in melee or stand on the point? No option but to take damage. Compared to sword aa, which is directional, in close range and requires continuous action from the player, thus can be interrupted. This is why I said “ground aoe.” I know it is not super clear.

    One point to add, guardian symbols, relative to over all damage and sustainability, was on the lower side pre Feb. It became a problem after the Feb patch. Not necessarily cuz it does more damage, but the lower damage output makes game play focused on things like spamming symbols, not only possible, but ideal.

    It seems like you played some other game before February. Before February, symbol build flourished and FB was actually meta - Power / Mender / Sage - you name it.

  • @knite.1542 said:
    They might be a bit out of touch with what's going on.

    Hard to be in touch when the devs don't even play their own game. Completely clueless.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    @otto.5684 said:
    And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

    Was Chaotic Interruption problematic before that one mirage build?

    Writ of Persistence needed to go, 10/10 change.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Balance is trash as per usual. Lmao even warrior thee melee spec is out melee'd by most specs as a example of how clueless and outa touch the devs are with their game and how the classes are balanced comparatively with each other. Oh no here comes another forum ban, god forbid players tell $hit like it is.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @felix.2386 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Zee.1294 said:
    Only thing i can say is BOOOOOOOO....ANet .. you are going down.....Waiting 3monts for BALANCE end we Get HALLOKITENWEEN ...Oh Wait... we gona wait another 2 weeks for 3 day work Patch cause they are very busy doing some EXPAC for 2022.......BOOOOOO....You DONT GET IT DO YA.....If a player dont have fun playing, no content will ever make him play your game!!!!!!!!........................I em Tired of You ANet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FOR CRY SAKE >>>>>Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.....WHY? Can Someone explain ....WHY ?

    Bc symbol guard is cancer

    But does this change really solve the problem? Why not nerf the damage bonus from zeal? And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

    Because AoE spam and visual cluster is toxic for the game.
    and that keeping the damage and giving less radius demands more skillful play and you can still do nice cleave and etc.
    but nerfing damage and keeping the radius keep the braindeadness and just a flat shave on the build may even completely destroy it, which is not good.

    not hard to understand

    However, this skill was always like that and was not an issue, or even meta. It was mainly used for healing. Why do you think it became a problem in the last year or so? Unnecessary damage buff. What should be nerfed? Also, do you really think the symbol without it has a small radius? It still covers the majority of the point... So, no, it does not add skillful play. This what happens when people do not understand the classes/builds/issues make changes. They needed to nerf the damage. AOE spam should not be game play. Reducing the AOE radius alone, is no where close to enough, when the symbol has 180 base radius.

    AOE ground damage should not be a good damage source for guardian or any class, in any game mode, under any circumstance.

    You realize anything that's not single target is AoE right, warrior greatsword auto attack is AoE, what makes an AoE more toxic, is how big it is and how spammable it is.
    not sure what do you mean by "damage shouldn't come from AoE" when every thing damage in this game is AoE except single target ones.

    There is a difference. Guardian symbols are 180 radius aoe that you set on the ground, lasts for 6 secs (with then trait). It covers most of the point, and can be kept up most of the time. No interruption possible to it. You want to fight the guardian in melee or stand on the point? No option but to take damage. Compared to sword aa, which is directional, in close range and requires continuous action from the player, thus can be interrupted. This is why I said “ground aoe.” I know it is not super clear.

    One point to add, guardian symbols, relative to over all damage and sustainability, was on the lower side pre Feb. It became a problem after the Feb patch. Not necessarily cuz it does more damage, but the lower damage output makes game play focused on things like spamming symbols, not only possible, but ideal.

    It seems like you played some other game before February. Before February, symbol build flourished and FB was actually meta - Power / Mender / Sage - you name it.

    Not before the zeal redesign few month before that. And yes symbolist build was meta before Feb, but it was hardly the main source of damage. More of a facilitor.

    And to be clear, I am in favor of less damage to symbols. They are should be for boons and maybe some utility. They should not be a primary source of damage.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anomaly.7612 said:
    The hidden thief nerf is just bad. 0.25 seconds of stealth on steal? Why even have stealth on it at all now? That's not enough time to even land a backstab.

    No necro nerfs at all. No buffs to severely underperforming and underrepresented classes.

    I'm out. I'll just stick to WvW. PvP is an utter clown fiesta now.

    It's 1.25s

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly, good job on the guardian changes. Destroying lazy symbol builds let's them build guardian from the ground up without buffing this awful playstyle.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:

    @Zee.1294 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Even when a balance patch comes out you all cry. If nothing anet does can satisfy you then devote your energy to a different game.

    Yo...Are you calling this BS pach Satisfaction ?.....Guess what.... fanboy ... i all ready em on different game 3 years ago.....have fun playing your Satisfactory game..
    If you having fun waiting 3 monts for this kiten end then prize ANet how good job they are doing....well then.. i guess you are perfect match....Chao!

    And yet here you are. On the forums complaining about the game. At least im realistic with my expectations from anet.

    There are quite a few people who dont play the game anymore but check reddit and the forums to see if there is reason to return? So you're analysis is false. I did it durring my extended break; As for expectations? Well we shouldn't have any. Really we shouldn't, every other game holds better cadence for balance changes even when they DONT care than A-net and often times they do it BETTER while trying to break their game. A-net is lazy, nothing to see End of dragons will be PoF 2.0 and it will likely be bloated in price because I dont expect anything of them outside of anti-consumer moves. Like build templates.

    As for class anything? I expect them to do the thing with the least amount of work, energy or imagination required. They've been doing that for a hot minute now and it seems to have only gotten worse; Note NOT EVERYONE complains unjustly and for you to deny the fact that you're outnumbered by people who are clearly upset THEIR class is getting gutted I assume then that your build/class is fine and likewise continues to be fine? Its only perfectly fair until it happens to you right.

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Even when a balance patch comes out you all cry. If nothing anet does can satisfy you then devote your energy to a different game.

    Shocking aura has counterplay. Projectile denile is what needs a bit of a nerf.

    The engi changes are a good. Decrap scrapper seems lazy but i think cmc wanted to tone down the cc spam and barrier uptime.

    These changes are minor but do what everyone asked for. And you still complain. Mind boggling.

    Alright bet, but when this game is dying (Im assuming the steam jump is to get new players in, because they dont have enough to justify the cost of development.) and there is no one to play the game then what? I mean PvP is dying, WvW seems to be dying, raids are not being developed and for all we know strikes aren't either as its been a bit since we got a new one and its in its infant stages? Fractals only recently got any attention and the living world cadence seems to of slowed down, To me It seems A-net is pushing everything they have onto end of dragons. And I hope sincerely it will be good because I dont want to see this game fall, but I firmly believe that the expansion will make or break this game and A-net themselves. Clearly we can expect nothing of substance until then, so come back for living world and dont play until the new release and do the acheivo's that matter to you. If NONE of it matters to you then yes find a new game.

    But telling people to leave the game because they are dissatisfied? I likely buy far more gems than you do on the regular when im happy and having fun, Im sure many here buy tons of gems when the game is solid for them. I have a guildie who has a dedicated allowance for this game that he buys gems every month, to support the game and he has not done so since the feb patch. What you're essentially saying is we the consumer do not matter in terms of the well-being of the product, but the product requires us to continue its existence and we make up its ecosystem. Without us it falls apart.

    So be careful what you wish for, because we dont want a BFA level exodus on our hands as I dont think guild wars 2 could handle THAT LEVEL of malice and malignance aimed at it. You dont want to taint the well you obtain your resources from, and if A-net isn't careful they very well might do so. the lay-offs, build templates, blanket nerfs, the lack of communication despite promises, WvW alliances, quicker cadence, Expansion level content, an expansion in general. All promises but nothing is bearing fruit right now and so those who are holding them to task over their promises are entitled to their opinion and the ability to express their disdain of what their reailty offers.

    Personally I re-rolled my ranger, Im currently catching him up and Im enjoying him. Sure I've been salty about revenant but its clear they dont want me playing the class I loved so much so that they changed it to something it wasn't. They then did it to warrior when I Went back to my first character, because of how revenant was going and now Im here on my ranger and Im enjoying myself again. Granted it has problems and Im also assuming they are about to nerf the ever loving hecc out of it; And if and when that happens likely Ill sluff off until the expansion only to return durring living world releases to see whats happening up until then. When that happens they will loose ANY and ALL money Id be willing to give and at the stage the expansion comes out, and the investment on my part is down? Well I might just not buy it! SHOCKING. Now I am one person BUT imagine if all the people who are unhappy with the current balance and communication just up and quit? To me and hearing it in map chat, team chat, PvE maps, city maps, discords and in my guild? Im assuming here (could be wrong, there might be an overwhelming majority who are happy for the game to continue this path.) thats a LOT of money walking out the door to potentially never return.

    And the more people that leave, the fewer players who ARE happy will stay because the world will begin to feel empty. When that happens even if you're 100% fine with the game typically you'll try to go where the people go. Because part of MMO's having appeal is other people being around, especially now given current world situations and thus if an exodus happens because everyone who is unhappy just "Don't like it leaves" then it will have a ripple effect throughout the entire game.

    So sure, fine. Good. Say it now. But when the game begins to go the way of wild star? Dont be upset. Know its what you wanted. You asked and told people to do it. Because A-net is under the thumb firmly of NCsoft now.... and big pappa wants its money.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

    Was Chaotic Interruption problematic before that one mirage build?

    Writ of Persistence needed to go, 10/10 change.

    I still don't understand don't you guys see what's happening? Community over the years asked for so much nerfs that soon we'll have such boring dumbed-down versions of our classes that it won't be fun to play anymore. We'll have just 1 dodge/autoattack and 1 amulet. I mean.. even now they aren't fun. Take a look and compare how classes were at PoF release and now. Rev became clunky. Mirage is a joke. Thief is a perfect example what happens when community hates it. FB is like 30% of what it was. etcetc. You realise that it's 50% our fault? We're destroying our own classes/game. But sure.. keep going and soon no1 will pvp anymore. I say leave it to the devs. Let them do their job even if it's so slow and infrequent.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Thief is a perfect example what happens when community hates it.

    Never falling out of meta is a bad thing? Interesting

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Thief is a perfect example what happens when community hates it.

    Never falling out of meta is a bad thing? Interesting

    Go play it then. Report back how that went for you.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Thief is a perfect example what happens when community hates it.

    Never falling out of meta is a bad thing? Interesting

    Go play it then. Report back how that went for you.

    Last time I played it (around 2 weeks ago) I destroyed pretty much everyone in 1v1s without to much trouble, if I got pressured I could easily disengage. Thief is one of the strongest classes in PvP alone due to its mobility

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Thief is a perfect example what happens when community hates it.

    Never falling out of meta is a bad thing? Interesting

    Go play it then. Report back how that went for you.

    Last time I played it (around 2 weeks ago) I destroyed pretty much everyone in 1v1s without to much trouble, if I got pressured I could easily disengage. Thief is one of the strongest classes in PvP alone due to its mobility

    Sure sure. Go duel a skilled (insert any class here) player for once and then report your results. What your argument will be then? That it's only a +1 and decap class? I've seen way too many biased players who hate thieves with all their guts over the years and i won't go into this pointless discussion cuz it's pointless. If it's "meta" and good for you then you clearly not maining a thief. You just casually login and make a decision that "its still OP and needs a nerf" and log out for another month and go into forums and ask for further nerfs? That's exactly what destroyed this game. For once leave balance for devs to figure out instead of killing this game even further. For example. Over the years i've seen tons of OP builds but i never felt the need to go to forums to trash on those profs. cuz i know the consequences long-term. I still silently played my main and watched in forums how it's being devoured by the community. And i'm talkin 6-5 years span. So. Let's continue this downhill and see where that will take us.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    And 2-3 years ago, was writ of persistence a problem? This is kitten backwards in every way.

    Was Chaotic Interruption problematic before that one mirage build?

    Writ of Persistence needed to go, 10/10 change.

    I still don't understand don't you guys see what's happening? Community over the years asked for so much nerfs that soon we'll have such boring dumbed-down versions of our classes that it won't be fun to play anymore. We'll have just 1 dodge/autoattack and 1 amulet. I mean.. even now they aren't fun. Take a look and compare how classes were at PoF release and now. Rev became clunky. Mirage is a joke. Thief is a perfect example what happens when community hates it. FB is like 30% of what it was. etcetc. You realise that it's 50% our fault? We're destroying our own classes/game. But sure.. keep going and soon no1 will pvp anymore. I say leave it to the devs. Let them do their job even if it's so slow and infrequent.

    We're basically already there, most everyone I know says their class is unfun and has tried migrating to new classes to play because they no longer enjoy their mains. Most have quit and moved to WoW or BDO and I doubt they are coming back; My guild is looking for any game coming out in the near future to hold out hope for and even our most optimistic memebers are jaded now and just dont care. Most just wish they'd end this game and go to GW3 and abandon all the classes A-net doesn't like; I dont think its just the players either. CmC seems to really believe in what he is doing.... I feel like he even makes changes that we didn't want or ask for ... (Such as the removal of empty vessel on rev.)

    I as a rev main have put down my main... at this stage likely until the expansion. I've migrated to ranger and druid, and im not running the cancerous gimmick trapper build but my build IS able to stand up and I am able to fight. And it feels good to play.... so until they nerf it I have something to play I guess.

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Thief is a perfect example what happens when community hates it.

    Never falling out of meta is a bad thing? Interesting

    Go play it then. Report back how that went for you.

    Last time I played it (around 2 weeks ago) I destroyed pretty much everyone in 1v1s without to much trouble, if I got pressured I could easily disengage. Thief is one of the strongest classes in PvP alone due to its mobility

    Sure sure. Go duel a skilled (insert any class here) player for once and then report your results. What your argument will be then? That it's only a +1 and decap class? I've seen way too many biased players who hate thieves with all their guts over the years and i won't go into this pointless discussion cuz it's pointless. If it's "meta" and good for you then you clearly not maining a thief. You just casually login and make a decision that "its still OP and needs a nerf" and log out for another month and go into forums and ask for further nerfs? That's exactly what destroyed this game. For once leave balance for devs to figure out instead of killing this game even further. For example. Over the years i've seen tons of OP builds but i never felt the need to go to forums to trash on those profs. cuz i know the consequences long-term. I still silently played my main and watched in forums how it's being devoured by the community. And i'm talkin 6-5 years span. So. Let's continue this downhill and see where that will take us.

    It leads to the expansion. Likely where those E-specs will just.... well .... revitalize the game and be the only way to play our characters for the next four to five years. Thats likely what is going to happen.