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Kittymarks - The kitten girl's comprehensive benchmark

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  • I mean, should I really point the fact, that the title has the word in it?

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:
    I mean, should I really point the fact, that the title has the word in it?

    Yush, "The kitten girl's comprehensive benchmark". Benchmark. BENCHMARK. NOT a guide. Comprehensive BENCHMARK.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:
    I mean, should I really point the fact, that the title has the word in it?

    Yush, "The kitten girl's comprehensive benchmark". Benchmark. BENCHMARK. NOT a guide. Comprehensive BENCHMARK.

    Except only not, because these are not benchmarks, and they are not comprehensive. So you were dishonest on both accounts.

    Kitty already argued about linguistics of word "benchmark". But some people sure like to stick to a word even if dictionaries say otherwise. Next.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Myhr.9108Myhr.9108 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes they are benchmarks, benchmarks relative to the real difficulty level of raids, which is quite lower than what some people profess, and the proof is that you can get carried.
    What I find really interesting is all the "carry-shaming", as if getting carried was the worse mark of disrespect ever. I mean, in your raid group, you're free to select whoever you want, and kick the under-performing members. But saying no-one wants to carry is just being close-minded. You don't want to carry, good for you. But if I'm ready to carry, you bet I would be happy that people that I carry have some realistic Kitten goal to aim to instead of being utterly demoralized by their mediocrity compared to qT's benchmarks and performing even worse.
    I know this because it's hardly something specific to GW2, it happened in a lot of MMORPGs I've played. But I must admit, the amount of elitism relative to the real difficulty of raids is incredibly off in GW2, I think it's the first time I've seen one of the speedrunning guild as the main reference, dps-wise.

    And I find really incredible that most raid LFG do not even specify their dps requirements, just a number of LI. I mean, either there is a clear lack of information about what the basic dps-requirements are, or maybe the community is less regarding that what some people would like to make us believe.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Myhr.9108 said:
    And I find really incredible that most raid LFG do not even specify their dps requirements, just a number of LI. I mean, either there is a clear lack of information about what the basic dps-requirements are, or maybe the community is less regarding that what some people would like to make us believe.

    Well, "since killing boss as fast as possible means less mechanics to survive thru", they want the best possible DPS, not just "enough" DPS. And they really don't want some damage mitigators to help peoples survive if that means less DPS. And it's not that uncommon with LFG that the commander doesn't have Arcdps and goes kicking the lower benchmark classes if things go south with best benchmark classes failing horribly.
    And sure as hell they don't know the actual cleave DPS requirements of various bosses. (Kitty 's not sure if anyone else has gathered and listed the numbers to get the kill 30s before enrage. She has on her benchmark page).

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • FrostDraco.8306FrostDraco.8306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    @Myhr.9108 said:
    And I find really incredible that most raid LFG do not even specify their dps requirements, just a number of LI. I mean, either there is a clear lack of information about what the basic dps-requirements are, or maybe the community is less regarding that what some people would like to make us believe.

    Well, "since killing boss as fast as possible means less mechanics to survive thru", they want the best possible DPS, not just "enough" DPS. And they really don't want some damage mitigators to help peoples survive if that means less DPS. And it's not that uncommon with LFG that the commander doesn't have Arcdps and goes kicking the lower benchmark classes if things go south with best benchmark classes failing horribly.
    And sure as hell they don't know the actual cleave DPS requirements of various bosses. (Kitty 's not sure if anyone else has gathered and listed the numbers to get the kill 30s before enrage. She has on her benchmark page).

    People were gathering those numbers since raids were released. Before you even started playing this game to my knowledge. Please. You are embarrassing yourself.

    The fact that in 2 years, you assume no one has already done this works shows how conceited you really are. And arcdps isn't the only meter available, and wasn't for a long time. Also, arc's interface wasn't always as clean and readable as it is now.

  • FrostDraco.8306FrostDraco.8306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:
    I mean, should I really point the fact, that the title has the word in it?

    Yush, "The kitten girl's comprehensive benchmark". Benchmark. BENCHMARK. NOT a guide. Comprehensive BENCHMARK.

    Except only not, because these are not benchmarks, and they are not comprehensive. So you were dishonest on both accounts.

    Kitty already argued about linguistics of word "benchmark". But some people sure like to stick to a word even if dictionaries say otherwise. Next.

    benchmark :
    Standard, or a set of standards, used as a point of reference for evaluating performance or level of quality. Benchmarks may be drawn from a firm's own experience, from the experience of other firms in the industry, or from legal requirements such as environmental regulations.

    ref: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/benchmark.html

    However we already have a set standard for said benchmarks. Somethign that has been set up for years even. And with the introduction of the golem they have only gotten better. You can argue linguistics all you like, but your argument is fallacious. The standards were already established before you came along. And so has the criteria, which you fail to meet CONSISTENTLY. You are an individual, not a guild like qT. Your attempts are riddled with errors you have fail to refine or make any attempt to correct.

    -100% duration for condition builds
    -100% crit for power builds
    -a proper balance of condition damage > expertise, and condition damage taking priority when it produces higher damage than extra duration
    -testing all weapons and their functions then choosing a weapon that is suited to this function

    And the list goes on. They are not comprehensive, and they do not even come close to the standard that has already been set. Don't give me this subjectivist BS. You can call them what you like, and i will continue to say you are wrong, because you are. End of story.

  • FrostDraco.8306FrostDraco.8306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Myhr.9108 said:
    Yes they are benchmarks, benchmarks relative to the real difficulty level of raids, which is quite lower than what some people profess, and the proof is that you can get carried.

    Wrong. Benchmarks in this context are what a class can do performance wise under optimal realistic circumstances. If you call poorly done rotations in the literal same exact setting as qT benchmarks "relative to the real difficulty of raids" then you are a blatant liar. They are done in the same environment, that has literally no pressure. There is nothing stopping them from being optimal, because there is nothing hindering her performance, except her performance itself.

    @Myhr.9108 said:
    What I find really interesting is all the "carry-shaming", as if getting carried was the worse mark of disrespect ever. I mean, in your raid group, you're free to select whoever you want, and kick the under-performing members. But saying no-one wants to carry is just being close-minded. You don't want to carry, good for you. But if I'm ready to carry, you bet I would be happy that people that I carry have some realistic Kitten goal to aim to instead of being utterly demoralized by their mediocrity compared to qT's benchmarks and performing even worse.

    Being demoralized sounds like a personal issue. You haven't given anyone here a reason to care. Are you saying we should also gut all the raid bosses because people feel demoralized about taking damage or performing mechanics? Getting carried is bad, for any player that cares about their own personal skill level. if you are fine getting carried, you are saying you do not care.

    And if you do not care, your words about the meta, or 'elitism' are worthless. And it completely invalidates all your statements about 'demoralization' earlier.

    The way things should be done should not be predicated on the lowest common denominator. You are literally setting everyone up for failure, including the people you want to help. Why set a goal if that goal isn't gonna take any work to reach? You are literally telling people to aim low. It's downright disgusting, especially from someone who teaches others, and is constantly learning themselves.

    I know this because it's hardly something specific to GW2, it happened in a lot of MMORPGs I've played. But I must admit, the amount of elitism relative to the real difficulty of raids is incredibly off in GW2, I think it's the first time I've seen one of the speedrunning guild as the main reference, dps-wise.

    Maybe you don't play enough MMO's bruh. Come back when you have 200+ MMO's under your belt. Very few MMO's have actual rotations a person needs to learn because the content is designed for clicking skills, not real time. And even then, I have the same issue i have now. People are bad, and refuse to acknowledge it.

    Not a single one of these post you have made, have made me think you ever bothered to question if the statements you are talking about are actually elitism. They could simply be people who know better, voicing their opinions and observations. But that's impossible right?

    Stop white knighting and actually make a coherent argument for once please.

  • Myhr.9108Myhr.9108 Member ✭✭✭

    Ho right, you need to have played 200+ MMO's to have the right to even say things. I'm sure you check that requirement, "bruh". I'll enjoy your 200 title long list, I'm sure, and be happy to cherry-pick every single one that isn't relevant to the present discussion, since it's the kind of argument you're enjoying.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So many paragraphs while the only justification needed for Kitty's work is if she can raid with her builds and complete instances. She can. That's good enough. qt fans have their misguided crusade, let Kitty enjoy game the way she does. There is no reason for any hater present here to use her builds.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    So many paragraphs while the only justification needed for Kitty's work is if she can raid with her builds and complete instances. She can. That's good enough. qt fans have their misguided crusade, let Kitty enjoy game the way she does. There is no reason for any hater present here to use her builds.

    This isn't a crusade, this is criticism. If you don't want it, don't post to the internet.

    No one stated they will use a single build other than people like you. And no one said she isn't allowed to post as she likes. However if you choose to post, you also choose to be criticized just like everyone before you. No exceptions.

    I am criticized, you are, and she is. No one is above it.

    Current 8 pages of what you call "criticism" is just misguided crusade. You are not the target of Kitty's work. It's the same as you going to vegan convention promoting meatballs.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:
    I mean, should I really point the fact, that the title has the word in it?

    Yush, "The kitten girl's comprehensive benchmark". Benchmark. BENCHMARK. NOT a guide. Comprehensive BENCHMARK.

    Except only not, because these are not benchmarks, and they are not comprehensive. So you were dishonest on both accounts.

    Kitty already argued about linguistics of word "benchmark". But some people sure like to stick to a word even if dictionaries say otherwise. Next.

    From the 2 dictionaries which actually matter:

    a :a point of reference from which measurements may be made
    b :something that serves as a standard by which others may be measured or judged

    a stock whose performance is a benchmark against which other stocks can be measured
    

    c :a standardized problem or test that serves as a basis for evaluation or comparison (as of computer system performance)

    noun

    1A standard or point of reference against which things may be compared.
    ‘the pay settlement will set a benchmark for other employers and workers’
    

    verb
    [with object]

    1Evaluate (something) by comparison with a standard.
    ‘we are benchmarking our performance against external criteria’
    

    In both cases, your "benchmarks" fall short or are not good points of referance or comparison. Essentially what every single experienced player has been saying since page 1 of this thread. At least not in the way you want those "benchmarks" to be valid.

    As I had said on page 1:

    the only thing these benchmarks really show is how easy or fast some classes and their dps builds work and how hard it is to master them. Which granted is quite useful (unfortunately with only such a small amount of practice runs, this is literally looking at how someone completely new would perform).

    For anything more, they are far to crude and undeveloped.

    Always make sure you understand what you are actually benchmarking. Saying a benchmark is for xyz does you no good if the methodology does not fit the desired result.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

  • FrostDraco.8306FrostDraco.8306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.
    If playing meta builds stresses you out then don't. However she chose to stress herself out by spending time, posting all of these poor examples. And arguing with more knowledgeable people.

    If you don't care, act like you don't care. If you don't want to prove your self, dont post something half baked claiming you already have.

    Everything about this thread contradicts the persons claims made in it. This IS the stressful toxic environment you claimed she was trying to avoid. Why are either of you here?

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

  • FrostDraco.8306FrostDraco.8306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    Then so are kitty's benchmark and we are back to square one. Your words, not mine. Because if its not optimized and effective, its not actually a benchmark. It's a cobbled mess.

    Laws are created by people and forced by people as well. Should we throw those out?

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    Then so are kitty's benchmark and we are back to square one. Your words, not mine. Because if its not optimized and effective, its not actually a benchmark. It's a cobbled mess.

    Laws are created by people and forced by people as well. Should we throw those out?

    Call them whatever you like as long as you are respectful to other players and provide high standards for discussion. Kitty didn't make her videos for you but for people who would love to see how their builds that are not currently praised flavour of the month play in raid environment. Looks like they are better than expected considering she completes raids without being another copycat of qt builds.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    So many paragraphs while the only justification needed for Kitty's work is if she can raid with her builds and complete instances. She can. That's good enough. qt fans have their misguided crusade, let Kitty enjoy game the way she does. There is no reason for any hater present here to use her builds.

    This isn't a crusade, this is criticism. If you don't want it, don't post to the internet.

    No one stated they will use a single build other than people like you. And no one said she isn't allowed to post as she likes. However if you choose to post, you also choose to be criticized just like everyone before you. No exceptions.

    I am criticized, you are, and she is. No one is above it.

    Current 8 pages of what you call "criticism" is just misguided crusade. You are not the target of Kitty's work. It's the same as you going to vegan convention promoting meatballs.

    Actually no, this is like going to a vegan convention and finding someone who adv> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    Kitty progresses with other players carrying her. Those same players next time around when someone wants to play an offmeta build might be:"no thanks, I had one of those and they were bad." If you want more toxicity, sure make peiple play unoptimised and lazy builds.

    The moment this thread became about benchmarks (see definitions: a point of referance) it did become about optimized gameplay. At least if the builds shown are ment to be benchmarks for what could work.

    Now if Kitty were to rephrase her intention with these benchmarks and say something along the lines of:"this is how hard it was for me to get xyz performance on xyz build with xyz playtime" essentially comparing how difficult different builds are for inexperienced players(at 8 tries per build, that's where this benchmark would fall in), I doubt people would mind.

  • nextgen.3750nextgen.3750 Member ✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    There for they are meaningless. You can kill every raidboss (or at least the majority) with green gear if you execute correctly

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    There for they are meaningless. You can kill every raidboss (or at least the majority) with green gear if you execute correctly

    And so are qt builds and benchmarks.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    So many paragraphs while the only justification needed for Kitty's work is if she can raid with her builds and complete instances. She can. That's good enough. qt fans have their misguided crusade, let Kitty enjoy game the way she does. There is no reason for any hater present here to use her builds.

    This isn't a crusade, this is criticism. If you don't want it, don't post to the internet.

    No one stated they will use a single build other than people like you. And no one said she isn't allowed to post as she likes. However if you choose to post, you also choose to be criticized just like everyone before you. No exceptions.

    I am criticized, you are, and she is. No one is above it.

    Current 8 pages of what you call "criticism" is just misguided crusade. You are not the target of Kitty's work. It's the same as you going to vegan convention promoting meatballs.

    Actually no, this is like going to a vegan convention and finding someone who adv> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    Kitty progresses with other players carrying her. Those same players next time around when someone wants to play an offmeta build might be:"no thanks, I had one of those and they were bad." If you want more toxicity, sure make peiple play unoptimised and lazy builds.

    The moment this thread became about benchmarks (see definitions: a point of referance) it did become about optimized gameplay. At least if the builds shown are ment to be benchmarks for what could work.

    Now if Kitty were to rephrase her intention with these benchmarks and say something along the lines of:"this is how hard it was for me to get xyz performance on xyz build with xyz playtime" essentially comparing how difficult different builds are for inexperienced players(at 8 tries per build, that's where this benchmark would fall in), I doubt people would mind.

    Raid is group content. Everyone carries the other 9. Or you believe that only in your super meta pro squads people carry themselves only?

    Your whole raid experience is being carried by other 9 players, no matter what your performance is.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:
    I don't know what's fun for you, but I find it fun to clear content,, hence I go and get the metabuild for a class I want to play, practice it, make my own adjustments and be a good help to my team.

    Anyways, her idea of benchmarking these builds are fine and all. I'd even say it's a great idea. The problem is like what we have been echoing over and over again, it is clear that some of the builds aren't even studied, well researched and not executed properly. (See some rotational mistakes at Golem ie using Guardian Torch 5, Wild Blow, casting Phantasmal Swordsman at max Phantasms) Makes it clear that Kitty hasn't really fully understood the class, and what the skills do.

    It's not like Kitty's completely ignored the comments. She's also said numerous times that she'll give more tries to builds she derped with and didn't give enough tries to at first. But that (as well as many other things) has been ignored by her criticizers as well, some even saying outright lies. And since balance patch comes already today, she gets to start with clean slate but also with some experience of the builds she's testing due to having tested most of them before.

    But guess some peoples need a meme cat to try to troll and hate on.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses.

    Exactly, and that very point has never been questioned. We ALL know any build can kill a Boss, eventually. That's not the point though. What she is professing is just wrong and plain and simple she is carried, period. Paint it any color you wish, she is carried and as mentioned it would probably make the group next time say, "thanks, but no thanks."
    Many of us have been carried at some stage, it happens. But its not the best gameplay nor is it enjoyable in any sense, unless you really are that self centered and selfish and if so well then...um...yea. Either way it is in no shape or form a "benchmark" and if "Kitty" truly wants to help those less skilled then put in the effort to be remotely skilled and close to a viable build. All that's being done at this stage is some is getting 9+ pages of attention (a record I think) all the while thumbing their nose at folks like qT and SC, who at least offer up viable help and tips.
    And with it hitting 9 pages does that equate to 9 lives so we can call it an end now?

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Now if Kitty were to rephrase her intention with these benchmarks and say something along the lines of:"this is how hard it was for me to get xyz performance on xyz build with xyz playtime" essentially comparing how difficult different builds are for inexperienced players(at 8 tries per build, that's where this benchmark would fall in), I doubt people would mind.

    Just...what the hell? Seriously? Kitty's been saying that through the thread, just notifying. Kitty's never, single time said these are about optimizing but about what Kitty (a casual multiclassing raider) can pull off somewhat reliably with her not-that-pro playing skills with each build.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses.

    Exactly, and that very point has never been questioned. We ALL know any build can kill a Boss, eventually. That's not the point though. What she is professing is just wrong and plain and simple she is carried, period. Paint it any color you wish, she is carried and as mentioned it would probably make the group next time say, "thanks, but no thanks."
    Many of us have been carried at some stage, it happens. But its not the best gameplay nor is it enjoyable in any sense, unless you really are that self centered and selfish and if so well then...um...yea. Either way it is in no shape or form a "benchmark" and if "Kitty" truly wants to help those less skilled then put in the effort to be remotely skilled and close to a viable build. All that's being done at this stage is some is getting 9+ pages of attention (a record I think) all the while thumbing their nose at folks like qT and SC, who at least offer up viable help and tips.
    And with it hitting 9 pages does that equate to 9 lives so we can call it an end now?

    If people stopped complaining and let kitty do her work it would have been over long time ago.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    So many paragraphs while the only justification needed for Kitty's work is if she can raid with her builds and complete instances. She can. That's good enough. qt fans have their misguided crusade, let Kitty enjoy game the way she does. There is no reason for any hater present here to use her builds.

    This isn't a crusade, this is criticism. If you don't want it, don't post to the internet.

    No one stated they will use a single build other than people like you. And no one said she isn't allowed to post as she likes. However if you choose to post, you also choose to be criticized just like everyone before you. No exceptions.

    I am criticized, you are, and she is. No one is above it.

    Current 8 pages of what you call "criticism" is just misguided crusade. You are not the target of Kitty's work. It's the same as you going to vegan convention promoting meatballs.

    Actually no, this is like going to a vegan convention and finding someone who adv> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    Kitty progresses with other players carrying her. Those same players next time around when someone wants to play an offmeta build might be:"no thanks, I had one of those and they were bad." If you want more toxicity, sure make peiple play unoptimised and lazy builds.

    The moment this thread became about benchmarks (see definitions: a point of referance) it did become about optimized gameplay. At least if the builds shown are ment to be benchmarks for what could work.

    Now if Kitty were to rephrase her intention with these benchmarks and say something along the lines of:"this is how hard it was for me to get xyz performance on xyz build with xyz playtime" essentially comparing how difficult different builds are for inexperienced players(at 8 tries per build, that's where this benchmark would fall in), I doubt people would mind.

    Raid is group content. Everyone carries the other 9. Or you believe that only in your super meta pro squads people carry themselves only?

    Your whole raid experience is being carried by other 9 players, no matter what your performance is.

    Please, just stop.

    Obviously every person carries the others, that's not what carrying means though. Carrying in this case means others have to carry a disproportionate amount of weight by covering for a slacker. This is and has been obvious through this thread as well as in TCs performance.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    So many paragraphs while the only justification needed for Kitty's work is if she can raid with her builds and complete instances. She can. That's good enough. qt fans have their misguided crusade, let Kitty enjoy game the way she does. There is no reason for any hater present here to use her builds.

    This isn't a crusade, this is criticism. If you don't want it, don't post to the internet.

    No one stated they will use a single build other than people like you. And no one said she isn't allowed to post as she likes. However if you choose to post, you also choose to be criticized just like everyone before you. No exceptions.

    I am criticized, you are, and she is. No one is above it.

    Current 8 pages of what you call "criticism" is just misguided crusade. You are not the target of Kitty's work. It's the same as you going to vegan convention promoting meatballs.

    Actually no, this is like going to a vegan convention and finding someone who adv> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    Kitty progresses with other players carrying her. Those same players next time around when someone wants to play an offmeta build might be:"no thanks, I had one of those and they were bad." If you want more toxicity, sure make peiple play unoptimised and lazy builds.

    The moment this thread became about benchmarks (see definitions: a point of referance) it did become about optimized gameplay. At least if the builds shown are ment to be benchmarks for what could work.

    Now if Kitty were to rephrase her intention with these benchmarks and say something along the lines of:"this is how hard it was for me to get xyz performance on xyz build with xyz playtime" essentially comparing how difficult different builds are for inexperienced players(at 8 tries per build, that's where this benchmark would fall in), I doubt people would mind.

    Raid is group content. Everyone carries the other 9. Or you believe that only in your super meta pro squads people carry themselves only?

    Your whole raid experience is being carried by other 9 players, no matter what your performance is.

    Please, just stop.

    Obviously every person carries the others, that's not what carrying means though. Carrying in this case means others have to carry a disproportionate amount of weight by covering for a slacker. This is and has been obvious through this thread as well as in TCs performance.

    But why do you complain? Are you playing with Kitty? Her group as a whole managed to get the kill. That's what matters. This is group content, not your personal raid celebrity contest.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    Exactly, and that very point has never been questioned. We ALL know any build can kill a Boss, eventually. That's not the point though. What she is professing is just wrong and plain and simple she is carried, period. Paint it any color you wish, she is carried and as mentioned it would probably make the group next time say, "thanks, but no thanks."

    So, in other words, even if Kitty pulls top damage with a DPS/support build, she's carried? If Kitty pulls top or 2nd best damage with non-meta build or a metabuild with too complicated rotation for her to pull it properly, she's being carried? If Kitty pulls better DPS than PS warr when she's playing similar off-meta build, she's being carried? If Kitty tanks the bosses successfully, she's being carried? If Kitty heals the bosses through successfully, she's being carried?

    What people here like to do is expect Kitty to pull top damage even when playing a DPS/support build apparently (like condi mightbot herald and quickness condi-FB, both of which have noticeable damage loss for support capability) and they are especially happy to refer to 2nd one as an example of how fail Kitty ish. THAT'S NOT A PURE DPS BUILD SO OFC IT DOESN'T DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS SUCH. And they also like to point to Kitty's "Deeerpy power HS at Cairn", which was one of Kitty's darkest raiding moments since she hadn't been to golem yet with it, only having the experience from playing some time and completing PoF story with it. By the time Kitty recorded it, there wasn't even any guides for it.
    Kitty indeed puts "Deeerpy" in the title of any raid video where she's clearly failing hard. And she's explained that more than one. But like usual, criticizers like to point at those videos and generalize it to Kitty's all gameplay.

    Many of us have been carried at some stage, it happens. But its not the best gameplay nor is it enjoyable in any sense, unless you really are that self centered and selfish and if so well then...um...yea. Either way it is in no shape or form a "benchmark" and if "Kitty" truly wants to help those less skilled then put in the effort to be remotely skilled and close to a viable build.

    But Kitty's already trying to play as well as she can when benchmarking. What makes that hilarious is that you're essentially saying Kitty's completely unskilled. But she's pulling off her own weight in raids (when she's not failing, Kitty's listed 5 vids as deeerpy out of 38 raid videos she's uploaded). So, that essentially would mean that raids require no skill, rite? Good job.

    And it's not like other people would never make mistakes. But apparently people here expect Kitty to play flawlessly and deem her as being carried and totally ununderstanding of a class if she accidentally makes one mistake (like that resummoning sword phantasm after losing focus for a moment).
    Guess that the thing is: Kitty's not afraid of posting vids of the times when she fails hard. That's part of humanity to do so every now and then but that seems so hard for some to understand.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    There for they are meaningless. You can kill every raidboss (or at least the majority) with green gear if you execute correctly

    And so are qt builds and benchmarks.

    Qt builds ain't all gear, it's rotation as well.
    Even you should get that correct execution means flawless rotation right?

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    There for they are meaningless. You can kill every raidboss (or at least the majority) with green gear if you execute correctly

    And so are qt builds and benchmarks.

    Qt builds ain't all gear, it's rotation as well.
    Even you should get that correct execution means flawless rotation right?

    Kitty has a lot of room to improve. And she knows it, she said so. But she shouldn't stop sharing her progress just because it's not perfect. qt players are not perfect either.

  • nextgen.3750nextgen.3750 Member ✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    Exactly, and that very point has never been questioned. We ALL know any build can kill a Boss, eventually. That's not the point though. What she is professing is just wrong and plain and simple she is carried, period. Paint it any color you wish, she is carried and as mentioned it would probably make the group next time say, "thanks, but no thanks."

    So, in other words, even if Kitty pulls top damage with a DPS/support build, she's carried? If Kitty pulls top or 2nd best damage with non-meta build or a metabuild with too complicated rotation for her to pull it properly, she's being carried? If Kitty pulls better DPS than PS warr when she's playing similar off-meta build, she's being carried? If Kitty tanks the bosses successfully, she's being carried? If Kitty heals the bosses through successfully, she's being carried?

    What people here like to do is expect Kitty to pull top damage even when playing a DPS/support build apparently (like condi mightbot herald and quickness condi-FB, both of which have noticeable damage loss for support capability) and they are especially happy to refer to 2nd one as an example of how fail Kitty ish. THAT'S NOT A PURE DPS BUILD SO OFC IT DOESN'T DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS SUCH. And they also like to point to Kitty's "Deeerpy power HS at Cairn", which was one of Kitty's darkest raiding moments since she hadn't been to golem yet with it, only having the experience from playing some time and completing PoF story with it. By the time Kitty recorded it, there wasn't even any guides for it.
    Kitty indeed puts "Deeerpy" in the title of any raid video where she's clearly failing hard. And she's explained that more than one. But like usual, criticizers like to point at those videos and generalize it to Kitty's all gameplay.

    Many of us have been carried at some stage, it happens. But its not the best gameplay nor is it enjoyable in any sense, unless you really are that self centered and selfish and if so well then...um...yea. Either way it is in no shape or form a "benchmark" and if "Kitty" truly wants to help those less skilled then put in the effort to be remotely skilled and close to a viable build.

    But Kitty's already trying to play as well as she can when benchmarking. What makes that hilarious is that you're essentially saying Kitty's completely unskilled. But she's pulling off her own weight in raids (when she's not failing, Kitty's listed 5 vids as deeerpy out of 38 raid videos she's uploaded). So, that essentially would mean that raids require no skill, rite? Good job.

    And it's not like other people would never make mistakes. But apparently people here expect Kitty to play flawlessly and deem her as being carried and totally ununderstanding of a class if she accidentally makes one mistake (like that resummoning sword phantasm after losing focus for a moment).
    Guess that the thing is: Kitty's not afraid of posting vids of the times when she fails hard. That's part of humanity to do so every now and then but that seems so hard for some to understand.

    Don't get me wrong, but it's easy to get top dps if you play with a handful of ... well players with suboptimal builds
    Ive been top dps on condi ps multiple times. And I'm by far not perfect

  • nextgen.3750nextgen.3750 Member ✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    There for they are meaningless. You can kill every raidboss (or at least the majority) with green gear if you execute correctly

    And so are qt builds and benchmarks.

    Qt builds ain't all gear, it's rotation as well.
    Even you should get that correct execution means flawless rotation right?

    Kitty has a lot of room to improve. And she knows it, she said so. But she shouldn't stop sharing her progress just because it's not perfect. qt players are not perfect either.

    I know that she said that
    Now she shares her progress of getting better? I thought it's about benchmarks
    To say they are light years ahead would be an understatement. nobody is perfect but they are clearly top of the charts in what they do
    Also, it's not always qt fyi, there are some more people behind the meta.
    Stop categorizing

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @nextgen.3750 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    There for they are meaningless. You can kill every raidboss (or at least the majority) with green gear if you execute correctly

    And so are qt builds and benchmarks.

    Qt builds ain't all gear, it's rotation as well.
    Even you should get that correct execution means flawless rotation right?

    Kitty has a lot of room to improve. And she knows it, she said so. But she shouldn't stop sharing her progress just because it's not perfect. qt players are not perfect either.

    I know that she said that
    Now she shares her progress of getting better? I thought it's about benchmarks

    benchmarking is also constant work of improvement, even qt posts benchmarks that are getting outdpsed few days later

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @nextgen.3750 said:
    Don't get me wrong, but it's easy to get top dps if you play with a handful of ... well players with suboptimal builds
    Ive been top dps on condi ps multiple times. And I'm by far not perfect

    Yush, and Kitty tends to occasionally do that on suboptimal builds against people playing metabuilds. And it's not like Kitty's aiming for perfection. She only aims to play at a level where she can pull off her own weight in squad in whatever role she plays while having fun at it. And that doesn't require hours and hours of brain-killing grinding at golem like some people seem to claim. If that was required to be successful, Kitty would rather find another game.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    So many paragraphs while the only justification needed for Kitty's work is if she can raid with her builds and complete instances. She can. That's good enough. qt fans have their misguided crusade, let Kitty enjoy game the way she does. There is no reason for any hater present here to use her builds.

    This isn't a crusade, this is criticism. If you don't want it, don't post to the internet.

    No one stated they will use a single build other than people like you. And no one said she isn't allowed to post as she likes. However if you choose to post, you also choose to be criticized just like everyone before you. No exceptions.

    I am criticized, you are, and she is. No one is above it.

    Current 8 pages of what you call "criticism" is just misguided crusade. You are not the target of Kitty's work. It's the same as you going to vegan convention promoting meatballs.

    Actually no, this is like going to a vegan convention and finding someone who adv> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    Kitty progresses with other players carrying her. Those same players next time around when someone wants to play an offmeta build might be:"no thanks, I had one of those and they were bad." If you want more toxicity, sure make peiple play unoptimised and lazy builds.

    The moment this thread became about benchmarks (see definitions: a point of referance) it did become about optimized gameplay. At least if the builds shown are ment to be benchmarks for what could work.

    Now if Kitty were to rephrase her intention with these benchmarks and say something along the lines of:"this is how hard it was for me to get xyz performance on xyz build with xyz playtime" essentially comparing how difficult different builds are for inexperienced players(at 8 tries per build, that's where this benchmark would fall in), I doubt people would mind.

    Raid is group content. Everyone carries the other 9. Or you believe that only in your super meta pro squads people carry themselves only?

    Your whole raid experience is being carried by other 9 players, no matter what your performance is.

    Please, just stop.

    Obviously every person carries the others, that's not what carrying means though. Carrying in this case means others have to carry a disproportionate amount of weight by covering for a slacker. This is and has been obvious through this thread as well as in TCs performance.

    But why do you complain? Are you playing with Kitty? Her group as a whole managed to get the kill. That's what matters. This is group content, not your personal raid celebrity contest.

    I'm complaining about what these "benchmarks" are being sold as.

    I have no problem with people improving their performance ir getting carried.

    I do have a problem when suboptimal benchmarks are being sold as anything more than what they are. In this case at best a comparison between rotation and build difficulty for a novice.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Static.9841 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Lunaire.9741 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @Lunarlife.5128 said:
    The toxicity in this thread is... Incredible.
    They're guides that help one get started, what reality is not elitism, etc.

    They are guides that help one get started in the wrong direction.

    If a given player has decided that they are going to dedicate themselves enough that they are actually bothering to look up guides, then they would be better served by looking at qtfy builds.

    qt builds are currently overtuned (because of bad game balance) which allows players to skip mechanics which leads to lesser understanding of bosses amongst players, which means they by definition are opposite to learning raids

    lol ignore mechanics? you mean like kitty does in a lot of her videos because in her words "we have healers" and to lazy to move to green circle so ill face tank it yea thats so much better.

    One "skips" mechanics using skills in the game to nullify damage or through improved dps to the detriment of no one the other encourages laziness and more works for the support to keep them alive and they just out right ignore mechanics. Not being rude she said herself she face tanks because she'll get healed. Imaging if her druids were as lazy as she is and face tanks mechanics

    If you have a gripe about QT skipping mechanics then why you are ok with kitty skipping mechanics?

    It's not against qt. Their benchmarks are caused by overblown balance. There should never be an option to skip boss mechanics. This is how people complained about dungeons.

    It's getting really creepy how you keep responding to everything that is said to Kitty and not you as if you are the one being spoken to. It's also really interesting how you keep avoiding answering anything legitimate put to you that puts a huge flaw in your continued defence of what she's doing. How about you answer the question as to why you're arguing qT builds are meant to skip boss mechanics as a detriment, but are vehemently defending Kitty's way of ignoring mechanics completely and getting hit by every single one of them because by her own admissions, she's being lazy and is getting carried by healers (which doesn't happen when she's constant down state a lot of the time). That's fine is it?

    You obviously refer to that "power DPS mesmer at Cairn"-video. Since you either don't read or you just choose to ignore, let Kitty re-iterate:
    The real reason why Kitty stood at boss instead of going to circles at times in that mesmer video was because going to circles could have meant 5+ seconds of DPS-downtime while staying at the boss only meant 2.
    Kitty noticed that the damage from the big AoE only ate about 55% of her max HP when she first failed to find a safe green to move to (btw, the AoE wasn't the danger for Kitty there, but someone with agony ring coming from BEHIND her after that AoE, giving Kitty a nice agony hit and downing her 'cause it's so effin difficult for some people to keep some distance).
    And thus, she calculated that as long as she avoids most of the other damage, she can survive that AoE 'til healers come back to boss from greens. In long run, that might have given Kitty 1,5k more DPS. It worked for a long time, until Kitty got accidentally ported at 19% left. That wasn't lethal yet, Kitty didn't even get agony ring. What messed Kitty was the green after that. Kitty doesn't exactly know why she got knocked away from the green, but that knock-off gave her agony ring and THAT messed Kitty bad time. At 3% left, she still had 10,5k HP left before AoE and thus she'd have survived that AoE+1 agony tick and after that Kitty intended to distort for last 2%. But, Kitty miscalculated and got downed, though that wasn't even dangerous anymore at that point as boss would've anyway died before Kitty.

    But it's not like Kitty would recommend doing that for anyone unless they can evade other damage well enough and also survive it by calculating the incoming damages quite accurately. And it does place a great trust on healers to be able to heal the melee-DDs properly. This time the trust was worth it. The keyword: Kitty could afford it.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    So many paragraphs while the only justification needed for Kitty's work is if she can raid with her builds and complete instances. She can. That's good enough. qt fans have their misguided crusade, let Kitty enjoy game the way she does. There is no reason for any hater present here to use her builds.

    This isn't a crusade, this is criticism. If you don't want it, don't post to the internet.

    No one stated they will use a single build other than people like you. And no one said she isn't allowed to post as she likes. However if you choose to post, you also choose to be criticized just like everyone before you. No exceptions.

    I am criticized, you are, and she is. No one is above it.

    Current 8 pages of what you call "criticism" is just misguided crusade. You are not the target of Kitty's work. It's the same as you going to vegan convention promoting meatballs.

    Actually no, this is like going to a vegan convention and finding someone who adv> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    However if you are gonna promote your way of playing as the only acceptable way to have fun

    That's what qt fans do every day in every squad in every corner of instanced content. This thread is neither for them, nor for you. Kitty doesn't care about how you play. She makes it for herself and people who like to play less stresfull environments than current toxic pve endgame community that is being promoted in this game.

    QT fans? I never claimed to be a qT fan, nor has anyone else, you liar.

    And qT has never claimed they are out to 'have fun', nor has anyone else advocating for the meta, and rigorous benchmarks. We advocate efficient, optimized play, not having 'fun'.

    Maybe you should understand the argument before you cry about how toxic it is. It makes you look like a bafoon.

    This thread is not about optimized, efficient gameplay. Kitty progresses through raid with her stuff so it's a proof that you don't need to be fixated on numbers and rotations to kill raid bosses. As long she completes instances it is enough to show her way. It's not optimized? Of course it's not. But people in this game forgot that optimized gameplay is fake requirement created by people and forced by people.

    And again, you are not the target for Kitty's work. Any talk about optimized, efficient gameplay is irrelevant here.

    Kitty progresses with other players carrying her. Those same players next time around when someone wants to play an offmeta build might be:"no thanks, I had one of those and they were bad." If you want more toxicity, sure make peiple play unoptimised and lazy builds.

    The moment this thread became about benchmarks (see definitions: a point of referance) it did become about optimized gameplay. At least if the builds shown are ment to be benchmarks for what could work.

    Now if Kitty were to rephrase her intention with these benchmarks and say something along the lines of:"this is how hard it was for me to get xyz performance on xyz build with xyz playtime" essentially comparing how difficult different builds are for inexperienced players(at 8 tries per build, that's where this benchmark would fall in), I doubt people would mind.

    Raid is group content. Everyone carries the other 9. Or you believe that only in your super meta pro squads people carry themselves only?

    Your whole raid experience is being carried by other 9 players, no matter what your performance is.

    Please, just stop.

    Obviously every person carries the others, that's not what carrying means though. Carrying in this case means others have to carry a disproportionate amount of weight by covering for a slacker. This is and has been obvious through this thread as well as in TCs performance.

    But why do you complain? Are you playing with Kitty? Her group as a whole managed to get the kill. That's what matters. This is group content, not your personal raid celebrity contest.

    I'm complaining about what these "benchmarks" are being sold as.

    I have no problem with people improving their performance ir getting carried.

    I do have a problem when suboptimal benchmarks are being sold as anything more than what they are. In this case at best a comparison between rotation and build difficulty for a novice.

    Read Kitty's last few replies to you, please. Kitty's not trying to sell them as anything more they are.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    Exactly, and that very point has never been questioned. We ALL know any build can kill a Boss, eventually. That's not the point though. What she is professing is just wrong and plain and simple she is carried, period. Paint it any color you wish, she is carried and as mentioned it would probably make the group next time say, "thanks, but no thanks."

    So, in other words, even if Kitty pulls top damage with a DPS/support build, she's carried? If Kitty pulls top or 2nd best damage with non-meta build or a metabuild with too complicated rotation for her to pull it properly, she's being carried? If Kitty pulls better DPS than PS warr when she's playing similar off-meta build, she's being carried? If Kitty tanks the bosses successfully, she's being carried? If Kitty heals the bosses through successfully, she's being carried?

    What people here like to do is expect Kitty to pull top damage even when playing a DPS/support build apparently (like condi mightbot herald and quickness condi-FB, both of which have noticeable damage loss for support capability) and they are especially happy to refer to 2nd one as an example of how fail Kitty ish. THAT'S NOT A PURE DPS BUILD SO OFC IT DOESN'T DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS SUCH. And they also like to point to Kitty's "Deeerpy power HS at Cairn", which was one of Kitty's darkest raiding moments since she hadn't been to golem yet with it, only having the experience from playing some time and completing PoF story with it. By the time Kitty recorded it, there wasn't even any guides for it.
    Kitty indeed puts "Deeerpy" in the title of any raid video where she's clearly failing hard. And she's explained that more than one. But like usual, criticizers like to point at those videos and generalize it to Kitty's all gameplay.

    Many of us have been carried at some stage, it happens. But its not the best gameplay nor is it enjoyable in any sense, unless you really are that self centered and selfish and if so well then...um...yea. Either way it is in no shape or form a "benchmark" and if "Kitty" truly wants to help those less skilled then put in the effort to be remotely skilled and close to a viable build.

    But Kitty's already trying to play as well as she can when benchmarking. What makes that hilarious is that you're essentially saying Kitty's completely unskilled. But she's pulling off her own weight in raids (when she's not failing, Kitty's listed 5 vids as deeerpy out of 38 raid videos she's uploaded). So, that essentially would mean that raids require no skill, rite? Good job.

    And it's not like other people would never make mistakes. But apparently people here expect Kitty to play flawlessly and deem her as being carried and totally ununderstanding of a class if she accidentally makes one mistake (like that resummoning sword phantasm after losing focus for a moment).
    Guess that the thing is: Kitty's not afraid of posting vids of the times when she fails hard. That's part of humanity to do so every now and then but that seems so hard for some to understand.

    That's what you should have said out the gate, period. I have no issue with you sucking, hell I do. As for the "top" dps, I get 16k auto-attacking so we will leave that one there. What has everyone fired up is the use of the whole benchmark thing. People see that and will follow what you have posted like lemmings, its Human nature. Now, had you just made a post and linked vids of "Here is me trying all sorts of builds and yea most times I blew at it but hey, we had fun, gimme your thoughts", that would have been like 4 pages of "good job", "Nice go", "good on ya" along with most likely some tips and suggestions. Its the calling them what they are not is whats at issue, not you or your playstyle per say, although many have taken offense to it but again I think it comes from what you claim they are instead of what they actually are. B)

  • Myhr.9108Myhr.9108 Member ✭✭✭

    There are two main types of criticism thrown at Kitty, and people love to mix them.

    First, there is the good old shaming. Kitty is lying, pretentious, bad and self-centered (she even talks of herself at the third person, what a wierdo!). Even though she has never ever said "take me as an example!", has admitted numerous times not being good (yet still good enough to down Bosses with her groups) but she's still pretentious. Guess people don't know the difference with "here what is possible with xyz build under xyz conditions". Which, you know is the very definition of a benchmark. It's a mark. Not a goal. Benchmarks can be used as goals, but they also can just be used as point of comparison or as a general idea.

    Secondly, there are the discussions about the relevancy of said benchmarks, as in "cool cool, but those videos are useless for me." This is probably the most valid form of criticism, because it gives us a view of the potential public for these videos. And, as some people said, they're perfectly entitled to give their opinion, to criticize the conditions under which the benchmarks are made, and so on. Still doesn't really explain why Kitty should stop making these since at worse, it'll be useless, and then it won't impact anybody.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    And just to add.....what is getting most fired up is this.
    Picture this: You post your vids and benchmarks and claim they are "viable" and anyone can do them and all that. I have been beating my head against my keyboard for weeks trying to get down the rotations I saw on qT (or any others) posts but with my kitten Aussie ping and the fact that I am still a bit of a clicker, 56 yrs and type like a monkey ( all true by the way!) I then go "check out" what you have posted. "Hey, this stuff is cool, if she can do it I can too!!" Now, having learned your ways I then start to raid, yet I really suck at it or get abused in pugs or simply never get a run based on what I am playing but yet YOU posted and claimed they were fine? Now the raiding community has yet one more crappy "raider" in the mix, and that's not healthy as a whole for anyone, myself included.
    Now do you see what the issue everyone is having? If its black, call it black, not some "darker shade". You post should have out the gate been about you, how you raid and the many times you "kitten it", period.
    And yes she can do what she wants, play what she wants and post what she wants. But as others have said then don't get all kitten when you are called to the mat over how bad people think it is. I myself have been put in my place on these forums when I would have sworn I was right, until another suggestion or showed me otherwise.
    And Kitty...after 9 pages...what do you actually want from all this, truthfully?

  • Sykper.6583Sykper.6583 Member ✭✭✭

    I think everyone's reached a point where the intent of this thread has been worked out.

    Can we properly change the title now? Like 'Kittymarks or how a kitten girl does Raids' or something? We seem to all agree for the most part these videos aren't comprehensive enough, nor are they indicative of benchmarks set at a standard we would see in a normal environment. They are, however, proof that raids can be done with enough perseverance and skill as long as the group in total meets that threshold.

    As even kitty agrees, she's not hitting her most optimal rotation for her unique builds, and yet she's able to show raid boss kills. That's fine, it's certainly not a benchmark but it's showing that the content can be done under those circumstances as well.

  • So I've watched this “power DPS Mesmer“ Cairn video mentioned above.

    Since Kitty stated she refers to her “meh“ runs as “deeeerpy w/e“ in the videos name, I suppose this was one of the better kills.

    In said cairn kill, Kitty got ported 3 times of which the first 2 happened roughly 15 seconds into the fight.
    She ignored or failed the green circle mechanic 5 times. Despite trying to get into greens, she said she ignored them on purpose.
    The “idk what knocked me“ knockbacks happened twice. First one straight at the start due to cairn's projectiles, the second one close to the end since cairn will first spawn greens, then blink to one and knock people away. (People experienced with the fight should know.)
    In total Kitty went into downstate 3 times, where I got to admit that she got killed once by someone else's agony.

    So therefor allow me a question;
    Benchmarking and stuff is fine but does she actually carry her own weight in raids?

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Sykper.6583 said:
    I think everyone's reached a point where the intent of this thread has been worked out.

    Can we properly change the title now? Like 'Kittymarks or how a kitten girl does Raids' or something? We seem to all agree for the most part these videos aren't comprehensive enough, nor are they indicative of benchmarks set at a standard we would see in a normal environment. They are, however, proof that raids can be done with enough perseverance and skill as long as the group in total meets that threshold.

    As even kitty agrees, she's not hitting her most optimal rotation for her unique builds, and yet she's able to show raid boss kills. That's fine, it's certainly not a benchmark but it's showing that the content can be done under those circumstances as well.

    I don't know. Can we change qt site name to "overblown, not required benchmarks"?

  • Sykper.6583Sykper.6583 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    I don't know. Can we change qt site name to "overblown, not required benchmarks"?

    I believe you mean optimized instead of overblown. As in, the most optimal numbers you can manage. And from their own website:

    Please understand that we are a speed clear guild, our opinions are based around achieving the highest DPS possible on every boss. It is not necessary to be a class kitten to kill any boss; DPS checks in Guild Wars 2 Raids are very lenient. You and your team can do the job with just about every team comp. Just because we say something is not recommended doesn’t mean it’s not viable.

    If you want to yell at someone, yell at raid commanders who are expecting raider DPS in the 90th percentile for all bosses from all raiders. Even hitting half or a bit more than half those numbers, from everyone across the raid, will score you a very natural and smooth kill.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sykper.6583 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    I don't know. Can we change qt site name to "overblown, not required benchmarks"?

    I believe you mean optimized instead of overblown. As in, the most optimal numbers you can manage. And from their own website:

    Please understand that we are a speed clear guild, our opinions are based around achieving the highest DPS possible on every boss. It is not necessary to be a class kitten to kill any boss; DPS checks in Guild Wars 2 Raids are very lenient. You and your team can do the job with just about every team comp. Just because we say something is not recommended doesn’t mean it’s not viable.

    If you want to yell at someone, yell at raid commanders who are expecting raider DPS in the 90th percentile for all bosses from all raiders. Even hitting half or a bit more than half those numbers, from everyone across the raid, will score you a very natural and smooth kill.

    so if kitty hits around 20k dps without using their builds its perfectly fine to be used in raids as I mentioned in many posts here

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