Writ of Persistence nerf took the rest of our damage and everyone will run now bunker builds — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Professions Guardian

Writ of Persistence nerf took the rest of our damage and everyone will run now bunker builds

snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 14, 2020 in Guardian

I don't know how nerfing Writ of Persistence is considered a 'sustain' nerf in ArenaNets eyes when no Guardian EVER used symbols for healing purposes but as last damage tool since our damage modifiers across the board were nerfed heavily. Instead of offering Guardians a way to ditch out damage other than using symbols and bring sustain down by making us run more offensive builds they literally have created an environment where all Guardians will run extremely defensive bunker builds which is excatly the opposite of what ArenaNet wanted to achieve with this 'balancing'. Shock Aura is being spammed by Tempests which make playing a frustrating experience, but symbols to do damage are the problem? How about taking the heal from them instead of taking away their radius? This whole nerf had 0 logical reason behind it.
You will see the first full bunker, 0 damage Guards running around in no time

Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

Comments

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some people in the sPvP subforum complained that the area cover was to big, so they nerfed it (It's a ridiculous nerf, but whatever). Someone even came up with a ridiculous theory crafted build claiming that the build could inflict several tens of thousand of burn damage (It was as ridiculous an idea as this nerf).

    If you want a logical reason, it's to ease the mind of those people that fear having a whole point in sPvP covered by 3-4 symbole for 6 whole seconds, hitting 5 foes that stay quietly within and proc'ing traited virtue of justice every 3 hits. (Even writing this unrealistic and impossible situation make me laugh at this nerf)

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, on the bright side, all guard mains are now pigeonholed into....meme core burn build since it's probably the only build that can do damage now. Sustain has already been nonexistent for FB. DH is a niche glass cannon. Core now is even dumber than before. Good luck getting anywhere higher than mid gold with guard now. Guess it's time for me to abandon guard and embrace some ridiculous meme builds like zoo necro etc. Who cares now since pvp is beyond life support.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The funny thing is that this the whole point of the trait. And it has been the same since the game started. Anyone with remote knowledge of the game will understands that the issue is something else. And IMO if this is an attempt to nerf symbol spam, it does nothing. Nerf the 30% damage bonus in zeal...

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not even sure why you are trying to say this.
    Guardians were slowly shifting into bunker builds already and thats with the trait making symbols bigger now it just means you cant smash symbols down stand on them and expect them to be as effective as before.

    But yah more and more guaridans i saw before this patch were already building more and more bunker/condi even starting to use mace's in their builds. Oh well.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Not even sure why you are trying to say this.
    Guardians were slowly shifting into bunker builds already and thats with the trait making symbols bigger now it just means you cant smash symbols down stand on them and expect them to be as effective as before.

    But yah more and more guaridans i saw before this patch were already building more and more bunker/condi even starting to use mace's in their builds. Oh well.

    Yes. And you know why this happened, right? FB was butchered in sustain - especially Heal mantra nerf which was kitten stupid. Boon duration / condi duration on other mantras besides cleansing was reduced to ONE second. Also, all healing coefficients were nerfed, but that could've been OK if the heal mantra hadn't been nerfed TWICE.
    So the only viable option after March 'patch' was to 'bunker down' with lazy core symbol, retal, burn build. And guess what - the Writ of Persistence nerf won't make guards less 'bunkerish' because the symbols were already healing for a laughable amount. This nerf just deleted last vestiges of damage that guard could deal , entirely erased FB in sPvP, and now everyone and their mother will be running the even more brainless core burn build. Guard has now officially no place in competitive play above low gold since it isn't good at anything. Well done CMC/ANET/forum warriors.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly I've tried playing guard a few weeks ago and since day 2 had big success with it (core and fb, didn't play dh much). I might not be the best judge here, but it seemed to me too easy to play. So I've managed to have a big winrate with a class I was kinda new to pvp (I kinda main guard in pve tho). I wouldn't say that guard was op compared to other classes I play, but very easy to play. So in my head this nerf made it a lil more difficult to play as we should be more precise with symbol spam. Would be rather good to see other classes nerfed like this (necro for example).
    What about the survivability.. I kinda won't agree that firebrand has a bad survivability. My best plays with sage firebrand was when I was kiting 2-3 ppl with spamming f2 and f3 tomes twice, I was able to run whole map around with a whole squad on my tail with no mobility. It is maybe not how firebrand is supposed to play, but my enemies think otherwise sometimes when they get frustrated to not be able to kill a firebrand. And ofc sage firebrand can actually kill people.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Honestly I've tried playing guard a few weeks ago and since day 2 had big success with it (core and fb, didn't play dh much). I might not be the best judge here, but it seemed to me too easy to play. So I've managed to have a big winrate with a class I was kinda new to pvp (I kinda main guard in pve tho). I wouldn't say that guard was op compared to other classes I play, but very easy to play. So in my head this nerf made it a lil more difficult to play as we should be more precise with symbol spam. Would be rather good to see other classes nerfed like this (necro for example).
    What about the survivability.. I kinda won't agree that firebrand has a bad survivability. My best plays with sage firebrand was when I was kiting 2-3 ppl with spamming f2 and f3 tomes twice, I was able to run whole map around with a whole squad on my tail with no mobility. It is maybe not how firebrand is supposed to play, but my enemies think otherwise sometimes when they get frustrated to not be able to kill a firebrand. And ofc sage firebrand can actually kill people.

    Your example of being chased by 3 people just shows the low skill level of your enemy team tbh. A decent team would first of all, not chase a bunker all around the map. Secondly, FB, especially Sage, is no way a bunker so a decent team focuses him/her and FB folds in a second.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Honestly I've tried playing guard a few weeks ago and since day 2 had big success with it (core and fb, didn't play dh much). I might not be the best judge here, but it seemed to me too easy to play. So I've managed to have a big winrate with a class I was kinda new to pvp (I kinda main guard in pve tho). I wouldn't say that guard was op compared to other classes I play, but very easy to play. So in my head this nerf made it a lil more difficult to play as we should be more precise with symbol spam. Would be rather good to see other classes nerfed like this (necro for example).
    What about the survivability.. I kinda won't agree that firebrand has a bad survivability. My best plays with sage firebrand was when I was kiting 2-3 ppl with spamming f2 and f3 tomes twice, I was able to run whole map around with a whole squad on my tail with no mobility. It is maybe not how firebrand is supposed to play, but my enemies think otherwise sometimes when they get frustrated to not be able to kill a firebrand. And ofc sage firebrand can actually kill people.

    Your example of being chased by 3 people just shows the low skill level of your enemy team tbh. A decent team would first of all, not chase a bunker all around the map. Secondly, FB, especially Sage, is no way a bunker so a decent team focuses him/her and FB folds in a second.

    That is exactly why I wrote it here. Sage firebrand is no bunker and survives a lot that was my point. I wouldn't trash on my enemy team tho, ofc chasing like that is ridiculous, but it shows how ppl can rage when playing vs a firebrand. It was just to bear witness that it is not true that you can fold a sage fb in a second, you have to let him leave if you know his tomes and invuln are up. What about being bad, tilting and chasing: we have all benn there and done that many times, no need to be mean.

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭

    next step is: firebrand spec is banned from pvp. well typical, somewhere out there a symbol guardian killed someone in pvp and it was a game dev :D

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    It is a major joke if we are honest, we don't have a single build left that can do damage outside of running full Trap DH, which is hot garbage. Tempests, Healbreakers, Scourges and Scrappers are on a defensive rampage in PvP but a trait that was used offensively was the problem - good job in nerfing sustain indeed. Firebrand got all it's sustain taken away, Core Symbol Guard got it's damage taken away - I hope the meta enjoys seeing full bunker, 0 damage Decap Core Guardians from now on. Never was a nerf more unlogical and more unjustified for this class. Take the heal from the trait, do whatever you want, but taking it's radius was absolutely the wrong solution

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭

    Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

    So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭

    Tested it this evening and we can safely say that our damage is now 0 with no changes to our survivability

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.

    Please ArenaNet, don’t do that kind of split between game modes.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Black Storm.6974 said:
    Writ of Persistence: In PvP only, this trait no longer increases the radius of symbols.

    Please ArenaNet, don’t do that kind of split between game modes.

    One-dodge Mirage says hello! It's a complete design failure when they split skills like that and it literally feels like you are playing completely different classes in PVE and PVP. Lazy, clueless, sloppy, and totally random 'napkin balance;. Ohh...also, very frequent as promised.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    Y'all are going to hate me but I'm for this nerf. Symbol-based play is very boring and incredibly cancerous to fight against. With that being said, I don't approve of a straight-up nerf without a proper replacement.

    As it stands, Honor is now pretty useless. This change reminds me of the old Staff auto change. Instead of implementing a proper change, they straight-up nerfed it without a proper replacement for months.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    Can you guys stop crying? That nerf was needed

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    @Arken.3725 said:
    Y'all are going to hate me but I'm for this nerf. Symbol-based play is very boring and incredibly cancerous to fight against. With that being said, I don't approve of a straight-up nerf without a proper replacement.

    As it stands, Honor is now pretty useless. This change reminds me of the old Staff auto change. Instead of implementing a proper change, they straight-up nerfed it without a proper replacement for months.

    I disagree. I was using Writ in my burn FB and burn DH because they were fun (I main Rev but Guardian was my main before and do play meme builds if I found them enjoyable), but lately I removed Honor in the FB due the heals werse so bad... I moved to Valor and changed most of my utilities to meditations and the gains in sustain and fun were isntantly evident. That was before this change: now Honor is entirely useless and in my DH I also removed it, currently testing either running Valor for the versatility or Radiand for the added damage. Anyway, summarizing: I now run a Firebrand which uses 0 mantras, and the spec moved from being a mandatory milestone in "serious" PvP to being "ok" to then being subpar in both sustain and damage, to the point you had to devote the entire build to be a healer/support to even andure in the battles. Now Writ of Persistence, which was the best symbol trait (and which ironically was placed outisde Zeal, the symbol-centered trailine which had 4 of the 6 symbol related traits) is just bland in a traitline filled with mediocricy.

    I won't miss Writ due I don't need it to make my burn DH and FB to work, but is sad how hollow of significance the Firebrand is in PvP: weak, useless mantras with poor sustain, nerfed tomes which also require mender amulet just to stay alive, etc.

    And I don't think that symbols were boring or cancerous: you can figth for minutes on top of them using a Tempest, a Scrapper or a bunker Jalis Revenant, because they weren't able to kill but the most glass cannon builds in the game.

    But yeah, ok, let's the symbols sink in the mud, along with the hammer; let's keep bleeding players in all the game modes because the game is unable to make anything interesting with their classes nor the gameplay, aside from chopping things away...

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    That's the issue Buran, symbol-play was unfun and unhealthy for the game(pvp at least). You literally just spammed aoe's that were the same size at the points you were fighting on. Granted it wasn't the strongest(looks at holo), it was unhealthy and boring to use. This predicament stems from the problem that EVERY weapon has a symbol on it. With that, you're usually going to specialize into such a mechanic.

    With the above-mentioned continuously getting nerfed(first the healing and then the size), the mechanic as a whole has been decimated. I feel like we should consider this a sign of a potential mechanic overhaul. Whether they completely redesign the mechanic and keep it the same across all weapons OR; each weapon now has their own unique skill(unclassified). I feel like the latter is less likely to happen as that would require them to redo EVERY trait that has to do with symbols.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    proc'ing traited virtue of justice every 3 hits.

    Symbols count as 2 hits because of a minor trait

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

    So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

    even full bunker guard is more engaging than spamming symbols lmao. doesn't really matter tho. your assertion that we will see a bunker guard epidemic is just straight up false. its a trash build for trash players that won't go anywhere, especially now that they lost significant counter pressure and sustain with writ nerf.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

    So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

    even full bunker guard is more engaging than spamming symbols lmao. doesn't really matter tho. your assertion that we will see a bunker guard epidemic is just straight up false. its a trash build for trash players that won't go anywhere, especially now that they lost significant counter pressure and sustain with writ nerf.

    That 'trash' symbol bunker was the only semi-viable build before nerf. Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then? Spamming traps?

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

    So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

    even full bunker guard is more engaging than spamming symbols lmao. doesn't really matter tho. your assertion that we will see a bunker guard epidemic is just straight up false. its a trash build for trash players that won't go anywhere, especially now that they lost significant counter pressure and sustain with writ nerf.

    That 'trash' symbol bunker was the only semi-viable build before nerf. Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then? Spamming traps?

    i'm not about to argue with someone who thinks meditrapper/old core guard is on the same level of braindead as symbol spam. really not surprised you play symbol guard

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

    So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

    even full bunker guard is more engaging than spamming symbols lmao. doesn't really matter tho. your assertion that we will see a bunker guard epidemic is just straight up false. its a trash build for trash players that won't go anywhere, especially now that they lost significant counter pressure and sustain with writ nerf.

    That 'trash' symbol bunker was the only semi-viable build before nerf. Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then? Spamming traps?

    i'm not about to argue with someone who thinks meditrapper/old core guard is on the same level of braindead as symbol spam. really not surprised you play symbol guard

    How can you make assumptions on what I play or used to play? Also, what makes you think I'm talking about meditrapper and not full trap trapper rune dh, or any other trap dh version? Please, get your facts straight before assuming anything. Thanks.

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

    So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

    even full bunker guard is more engaging than spamming symbols lmao. doesn't really matter tho. your assertion that we will see a bunker guard epidemic is just straight up false. its a trash build for trash players that won't go anywhere, especially now that they lost significant counter pressure and sustain with writ nerf.

    That 'trash' symbol bunker was the only semi-viable build before nerf. Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then? Spamming traps?

    i'm not about to argue with someone who thinks meditrapper/old core guard is on the same level of braindead as symbol spam. really not surprised you play symbol guard

    How can you make assumptions on what I play or used to play? Also, what makes you think I'm talking about meditrapper and not full trap trapper rune dh, or any other trap dh version? Please, get your facts straight before assuming anything. Thanks.

    your question was rhetorical. it wouldn't have mattered what I said because you actually believe symbol spam guard is not braindead. but since you insist that you were actually talking about full trapper dh, let me answer your question

    Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then?

    meditrapper/old core guard

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Symbol based gameplay is extremely low skill and unengaging. Very glad they nerfed this trait. Now they just need to bring back core guard and DH

    So much logical fallacy here...Core Guard was the only semi viable build left that did OK damage and didn't act as a sitting duck on the node. NOW you will see much much more bunker guards that do no damage and are a pain to kill. Enjoy!

    even full bunker guard is more engaging than spamming symbols lmao. doesn't really matter tho. your assertion that we will see a bunker guard epidemic is just straight up false. its a trash build for trash players that won't go anywhere, especially now that they lost significant counter pressure and sustain with writ nerf.

    That 'trash' symbol bunker was the only semi-viable build before nerf. Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then? Spamming traps?

    i'm not about to argue with someone who thinks meditrapper/old core guard is on the same level of braindead as symbol spam. really not surprised you play symbol guard

    How can you make assumptions on what I play or used to play? Also, what makes you think I'm talking about meditrapper and not full trap trapper rune dh, or any other trap dh version? Please, get your facts straight before assuming anything. Thanks.

    your question was rhetorical. it wouldn't have mattered what I said because you actually believe symbol spam guard is not braindead. but since you insist that you were actually talking about full trapper dh, let me answer your question

    Please tell me, what is not a brainless build then?

    meditrapper/old core guard

    Yes sure. This is your personal opinion. Do one is objecting here. But don't be surprised if something that you like, may seem like 'brainless' to others.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    Old arken/harrier brand wasn't braindead either. Most fun I've ever had way back when.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    @Arken.3725 said:
    Y'all are going to hate me but I'm for this nerf. Symbol-based play is very boring and incredibly cancerous to fight against. With that being said, I don't approve of a straight-up nerf without a proper replacement.

    As it stands, Honor is now pretty useless. This change reminds me of the old Staff auto change. Instead of implementing a proper change, they straight-up nerfed it without a proper replacement for months.

    The issues go much deeper. When I look at sPvP as a whole, this does not even register. I will give examples.

    Playing medi-trapper DH, LB+S/S, marauder. Temple, mid point, I get focused fire by 2 players. I run towards the temple, to get them behind me in a straight line, ToF, hit them both with DS, followed with TS. Great setup, good execution. Pay-off? 3-4K damage? This a lot of skilled game play that has no value. This same setup pre Feb patch would have dealt 11-12K.

    Another example, core guardian, power, GS+S/S, marauder, 3 enemies chasing an ally, shield 5, shield 4 on ally. Symbol for blindness. Then switch to GS. GS 5, landed on all 3. Double the symbol with GS symbol over sword. Pull all 3 enemies. Land a full GS2 on all 3. Enemies made the mistake of ignoring me and not retaliating. I did a good execution to punish their mistakes. But again... no pay-off. 4-6K damage, that was nearly healed right away, and the managed to down the ally anyway. Now, before Feb that would still not dealt so much damage (but at least 50-60% more). If this was done before RI nerf, that would be instanced down to all 3 enemies. And they should. The made multiple mistakes in a row.

    I know I digressed too much. The point is, I can go on and on about how the game punishes you now for trying to outsmart enemies. Or how good executions barely have any pay-offs. This is why the only game in town is tank and spam symbols or tank and spam burns. Is the nerf wrong? Not necessarily, but considering the symbol size, I honestly do not see it achieving much, especially in 1v1 situation. Yet everything else is completely ignored. Can I play a none spam build that works? No? This is why I look at changes like these as bull kitten. They do not do or mean anything.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm not disagreeing with you, otto, I'm just pointing out that I am hoping this sets the stage for a potential mechanic overhaul to something more engaging. I know the issues you speak of and I agree, completely.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arken.3725 said:
    I'm not disagreeing with you, otto, I'm just pointing out that I am hoping this sets the stage for a potential mechanic overhaul to something more engaging. I know the issues you speak of and I agree, completely.

    I agree with you that the nerf with the symbol was a good change, at least considering the current meta. I am just highly disappointed that nothing else was touched. This has been 14-15 weeks in the making patch, and... nothing. I am unsure if Anet is that out of touch or do not give a kitten.

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭

    Playing PvP the last days and seeing our damage output is just a proof that the Skill team that works at ArenaNet have no idea what they are doing and probably 0 foresight about the effects of their balance patches. Well done in making the meta a unplayable bunker party. No Guard will ever play the offensive line Zeal anymore - why would they improve their Symbols when no one with a brain stands longer in them than half of a second?

    What is left to do for us now? I tell you. Wait 4-6 months until the next balance patch in which ArenaNet might realize they have done a big f up and fix this issue. I wouldn't also be surprised if alot drop the class/game mode/game entirely. Playing since release I have to admit that PvP never was this frustrating. I probably was never this close to stop playing

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2020

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

    They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2020

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

    They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

    The heal on writ of persistence was literally irrelevant. It was not what was sustaining symbol builds.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

    They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

    The heal on kitten was already nerfed hard in February. All you get is ~70ish hp per tick with menders amulet, which tbh isn't what sustains you. Also, I don't really see any place for guardian now since even if you try to go full bunker, you are still useless because you can't kill anything now so how are you going to decap / side node?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2020

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

    They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

    Except you don't know their agenda. There are lots of way to do lots of things ... why does it make sense to think by chance Anet would pick the thing you think they should do? None of this actually changes what I said here anyways. Anet's balancing is not something you or anyone else can 'predict' because you think you know some agenda or see some trend.

    Honestly, you better get used to what you see happening here and expect it. Ask any veteran .

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Eight years now ... nothing has changed. Realize what game you are playing and how Anet makes changes to it. Nothing new here. Eventually, everyone gets hit with this approach to balance. Nothing is safe, no one is immune.

    They could have simply removed the heal on them and everything would have been in line with the agenda to bring sustain (= HP/tick healed throughout a fight) down, but they literally ripped Guards from the last offensive capability we had, which actually counteracted the general bulklords in the meta by dropping solid damage. Not only will tanks who camp points be harder to kill in fights now, but all Guardians will start to run builds that are 100% tanky and do 0 damage. Guardian builds that run power stats are pretty much non existent anymore starting with this patch. @Karl McLain.5604 and the skills team should consider changing the nerf by hitting the heal on the trait instead of it‘s radius, because I can see the meta already being frustrated by „unkillable“ Guard specs. It simply didn‘t hit on the right spot, which was the sustain offered and we need to be honest about that to ourselves

    Except you don't know their agenda. There are lots of way to do lots of things ... why does it make sense to think by chance Anet would pick the thing you think they should do? None of this actually changes what I said here anyways. Anet's balancing is not something you or anyone else can 'predict' because you think you know some agenda or see some trend.

    Honestly, you better get used to what you see happening here and expect it. Ask any veteran .

    Wait, wait, they have an agenda? I thought it was all random number generator. At least things in the PvE side are good. You are right in one respect though, you should not play guardian in PvP. There only 2 builds that always work, decapper thief and power herald. If I decide to play sPvP again, I will just play power herald. It has been meta since HoT was released.

  • @Arken.3725 said:
    That's the issue Buran, symbol-play was unfun and unhealthy for the game(pvp at least). You literally just spammed aoe's that were the same size at the points you were fighting on. Granted it wasn't the strongest(looks at holo), it was unhealthy and boring to use. This predicament stems from the problem that EVERY weapon has a symbol on it. With that, you're usually going to specialize into such a mechanic.

    With the above-mentioned continuously getting nerfed(first the healing and then the size), the mechanic as a whole has been decimated. I feel like we should consider this a sign of a potential mechanic overhaul. Whether they completely redesign the mechanic and keep it the same across all weapons OR; each weapon now has their own unique skill(unclassified). I feel like the latter is less likely to happen as that would require them to redo EVERY trait that has to do with symbols.

    You dont get it tho, its not like we loved the idea of playing symbols all the time. It was the only viable tool we had in spvp on higher ranks and now it was taken away woth 0 compensation.

  • Saiyan.1704Saiyan.1704 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet always do ridiculous nerfs and/or skill changes prior to a huge expansion so I'm sure there's a rhyme for their madness.

    As for everyone saying Symbols was toxic on node play, it was one of the few things we had going for us Guardians on node contests. You are right in that it was somewhat ridiculous covering an entire node with a single symbol but our sluggish mobility needed that large symbol (albiet minor) sustains and damages in most team-fight situations. The large symbols balanced out our lack of mobility to an extent... I'm all for the symbol nerf as long as we get that needed "OOMPH" in the coming balance patches.

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭

    @Saiyan.1704 said:
    Anet always do ridiculous nerfs and/or skill changes prior to a huge expansion so I'm sure there's a rhyme for their madness.

    As for everyone saying Symbols was toxic on node play, it was one of the few things we had going for us Guardians on node contests. You are right in that it was somewhat ridiculous covering an entire node with a single symbol but our sluggish mobility needed that large symbol (albiet minor) sustains and damages in most team-fight situations. The large symbols balanced out our lack of mobility to an extent... I'm all for the symbol nerf as long as we get that needed "OOMPH" in the coming balance patches.

    Yes in the next balance patches after months of waiting and even then we don't know for sure if ArenaNet gives us some form of damage. Until then we are forced to run braindead full tank builds while Renegades are spamming AoE's that could cover 3 points.

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Wow, guardian is just so bad at conquest right now. Unbelievable.

  • Arklite.4013Arklite.4013 Member ✭✭
    edited October 25, 2020

    Berserker GS core guard gang rise up

    I'll be down here in G3 because I can't duel anyone with a plat brain or better

  • This change to writ is exactly what happened when ANET nerfed Chronomancers and Scourges with not having clones and themselves shatter or damage around them at the same time. Both professions were completely unviable in PvP for 1 year until the changes were reverted.

    This was a huge oversight and lazy nerf that will remove firebrands from competing above gold 3 status.

  • Brokensunday.4098Brokensunday.4098 Member ✭✭

    Firebrand now is dead, dh is bad and core is mediocre. This season you will only see burn Guards and radiant builds til g3 and meme tank no damage builds.