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New Player Confusion and Frustration

I began playing a few days ago as a necromancer and really enjoyed myself. I decided to drop the $50 to upgrade to the full thing to get all the content and the level 80 boost was a nice bonus. Used the boost on a warrior since what I looked up said that they are some of the more tanky classes and are used in a lot of endgame content.

I used the boost and started to play around. I went to the Path of Fire expansion with my newly acquired gear and am getting smashed. Battles are taking forever and I have no survivability. I assume that I am unable to do this content without the appropriate gear, so I try to queue for a fractal as I expected them to be a group activity. Nope. I got placed in the tier 1 fractal by myself and promptly received my own kitten again.

I am confused and frustrated. I feel as though I cannot do any content because it is all too hard. I have searched for better gear with the measly 3 gold I have to my name, but everything that I can afford looks much worse than what I have equipped. I have played around with my skills a bit but nothing seems to make a big difference. I like what I hear about endgame (horizontal progression, no pressure to be ultra elite), but I'm starting to wonder if I will even get to there.

Does anyone have any tips for progression paths or something else that I can do to be capable to do even level 80 story content?

Thank you to all who reply with anything other than something about how I suck. I'm well aware. This is my first MMO. Be gentle.

Comments

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you're using boosted characters, you'll most likely be wearing Soldier stat gear (Power, Toughness, Vitality) and well... It sucks.

    Like, really, really sucks. It's only use is to stop new players from getting totally smashed when fighting anything but they'll end up hitting like a wet noodle.

    As far as obtaining gear goes, one of the easier places to obtain gear is the Heart of Thorns map, Verdant Brink. Doing events in that map will reward you with Crowbars, which you can use to open up Airship Cargo scattered around the map for Airship Parts. You can trade Airship Parts for boxes of Exotic armour with selectable stats at the Itzel vendor (Most easily found right at the place you first enter the zone at).

    For picking stats, most people use Berserker (Power, Precision, Ferocity) but Maurader is a good alternative (Power, Precision, Vitality, Ferocity) for a bit more health. If you want to be super safe, you can try and do a condition based build with Trailblazer (Condition Damage, Expertise, Toughness, Vitality) with the most popular stats being Viper (Power, Precision, Condition Damage, Expertise) and Grieving (Power, Precision, Condition Damage, Ferocity) for dealing damage.

    Generally how combat works in the tougher areas of Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire for people who are running full glass cannon Berserker builds with little to no defence, is to target the most dangerous enemies first. This will often be some sniper standing at the back shooting at you for like a bajillion damage. If you can see where the main sources of damage are and neutralize them, it becomes easy to breeze through the content with full damage builds.

    Cat: Meow.

  • Thank you. I'll head to Verdant Brink and try my luck at gear there.

    Ive looked into it and yeah, this gear is really terrible from what everyone says. Shame.

  • Thanks for the resources. I was contemplating going back to the necromancer and progressing for a while with him. I think I may do just that since this suggestion is almost exactly what I was thinking.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    @BeastNHisHarlot.4865 said:
    I began playing a few days ago as a necromancer and really enjoyed myself. I decided to drop the $50 to upgrade to the full thing to get all the content and the level 80 boost was a nice bonus. Used the boost on a warrior since what I looked up said that they are some of the more tanky classes and are used in a lot of endgame content.

    Yes, you will eventually love your warrior, but at first, it can be frustrating for new players. Trust me - I once deleted a warrior as I just couldn't get anything done without dying, but eventually I made a new one, and being more experienced I have loved it.

    As said above, necromancer is far more forgiving class for newcomers. You will fell in love in to your necromancer and it will serve you far. It starts to fall behind only when you start to reach high end content, but that will probably take some time.

    Take your time to learn the fight mechanics, builds and gears. Metabattle (https://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki) builds for open world may be too difficult for newcomers, in what case take a look to possible WvW roaming builds and PvP bunker builds, try them out and tailor them to suit to PvE side (usually PvP/WvW side builds have extensive mobility and condi cleanse, which is overkill for most PvE content). PvP/WvW builds are tailored for situations where you don't know what you are going to face, which is the case for newcomers in PvE side.

    PoF is easier than HoT, HoT is known to burst out tears of frustration from newcomers - although eventually you start to love the maps when you gain more experience.

    For Warrior, I could suggest close full berserker gears. Warrior already has quite good HP pool and armor, defensive pieces are generally not helping much. If you want, mix in few soldiers, but don't go much over 20k HP / 2500 armor. Take Axe/Axe and Mace/Shield (or mace/mace) weapon combo. For traits: Strength 1-2-2, Discipline 2-1-1, Defense 1-1-1. This will give you both Might heal and Adrenaline heal. In Strength, you can also trait 2-2-2, so your heal skill gives you Might, which heals you a bit.

    I used the boost and started to play around. I went to the Path of Fire expansion with my newly acquired gear and am getting smashed. Battles are taking forever and I have no survivability. I assume that I am unable to do this content without the appropriate gear, so I try to queue for a fractal as I expected them to be a group activity. Nope. I got placed in the tier 1 fractal by myself and promptly received my own kitten again.

    Either take your necro up to 80, get hero points and unlock specs, or play warrior more and even more. Remember correct builds for different situations. You can't assume raid builds are perfect for Open World roaming, as they are heavily tailored for specific content. Check Metabattle Open World section, and take a look to Conquest and Small Scale WvW builds.

    I am confused and frustrated. I feel as though I cannot do any content because it is all too hard.

    You can take steps back. You can go back to Core Tyria maps you left, get hero points and get fights. Try Orr, Silverwastes and Dry Top, and PoF of course - those have bit more potent mobs than lower level maps.

    Does anyone have any tips for progression paths or something else that I can do to be capable to do even level 80 story content?

    Thank you to all who reply with anything other than something about how I suck. I'm well aware. This is my first MMO. Be gentle.

    My best advice would be to take a step back to core tyria maps. It will help a lot when you have more experience. GW2 gives challenges for new players even in its Open World PvE side, unlike some other MMOs. In HoT and PoF maps it is very important to know your "enemy", that is, what the mobs do. You will get down very fast if you are not prepared for mobs' special abilities.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One thing I haven't seen addressed yet is what happened when you went into Fractals. This game does not have automated grouping, when you enter a dungeon, raid or Fractals you'll go in with whoever is in your party at the time (or if someone in your party is already inside you'll get a prompt to join them). If you're alone then you'll be alone inside too.

    Instead you need to use the Looking For Group Tool, which is part of the contacts menu, to find people to play with. This is also not automated, you don't simply join a queue and get dumped into the first group with space. Instead anyone who is looking to do that content can create a group listing with a free text box to give a description of the group. That's usually a mix of what exactly they're doing (like which Fractal or dungeon path they're going for) and who they'd like to join - which might be anything from "everyone welcome" to specifying a profession and build, or requiring proof that you've done it before. (If they don't specify then it's reasonable to assume they're open to anyone joining.)

    If you see a group which looks right for you then you just need to push the button to join and you'll be added to the group. If you don't see one you can put up your own advert and wait for people to join you. Once you've got enough people someone will need to go through the entrance and then everyone else who is in the map where the entrance is (for Fractals this is Lion's Arch) will receive a prompt in the middle of the screen to join them. If you're not in the right map you'll need to go there first, then you get the prompt to join the group inside.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fractals are indeed group-content, but group building for Fractals isn't automatic, it is supported with the LFG-tool (key: z, 2nd tab).

    There is also an quite reliable working way to do the first PoF-Mission you failed alone: Use the LFG-Tool in Lion-arch and make a Party-Search with Text:
    "Please, Newbie needs support getting Raptor".

    As GW2 is an MMO and people in GW2 are quite helpful if asked, you probably don't need to wait long till someone helps you.

    GW2 also has a nice mechanic, that allow LVL80 to play any core tyria map from lvl 1 till 80. So don't worry to go with your lvl 80 into an lvl 1 area.
    I would recommend you: use you necro and level it or your warrior to get the pact-mastery https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pact_Commander_Mastery with mentor-tag till autoloot.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hi! Welcome to GW2!

    This being your first MMO, you've probably noticed there's a bit of a learning curve to these games. Jumping to 80 is not recommended for new players as it tends to result in a frustrating experience.

    I recommend you level your necromancer. It's about the most straightforward class you can play and has excellent passive defenses. This makes it easy to pick up and learn while you're busy learning everything else the game throws at you as a new player. When you reach 80, you might give the Reaper elite spec a try. It deals great damage and can chew through those expansion enemies in no time with the right build!

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    @BeastNHisHarlot.4865 said:
    Thank you. I'll head to Verdant Brink and try my luck at gear there.

    Ive looked into it and yeah, this gear is really terrible from what everyone says. Shame.

    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Soldiers is by no means terrible. I've used it on my Warrior pretty much since 2012/2013. Now I agree it doesn't have the dps, esp vs later content mobs, but I have otherwise found it has worked perfectly for me. It allows me to be virtually unkillable in open world alongside my blocks, parries and high cc and means I can help keep team mates on their feet in fights. I wouldn't take it to instances, but I am very, very happy with soldiers in open world

    Soldiers just prob isn't right for your playstyle or build though.

    Going to HoT may be worse since it is argued HoT is much harder than PoF in terms of surviving. Using a boost as a new player is likely the issue because you haven't adjusted to the learning curve - a curve which is very steep between core and the expansions. You are better off learning your class first before going to endgame areas like HoT and PoF. You are basically going to the high end open world, without knowing the game

    One of the most important aspects is to learn the art of dodging. Much of your survivability comes from mitigating damage from dodge timing and condition clearing. Once you have a reasonable stat build that works for you (it's not important to be too analytical in the open world with stat builds), your weapon and utility skills build will be the most vital thing to work on.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    It appears from your comment OP that you have made a typical new player mistake.

    You started with a Necromancer (didn't specify what level you got it too) and then jumped to a level 80 boosted warrior and went straight into Path of Fire..
    I strongly do not recommend that people do this when they are new to the game.

    You've skipped over the entire leveling experience that will have helped you get familiarised with the Warrior class..
    Thankfully though all you really need to do is go back to the start with your warrior and play through the core game content and experiment, you can do this with your 80 warrior easily enough so it's not too big a problem.

    The expansions and living world content was designed for people who already have a good deal of experience with Gw2 and the classes they play, this is largely why you're getting smashed there..

    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.
    Heart of Thorns is notorious for destroying players who have done exactly that which is why so many often complain about it's difficulty which is much higher than the core game's admittedly but isn't all that challenging for experienced players playing classes they know very well.

    Ultimately don't feel the need to rush into newer and harder content, take your time to get familiar with the classes you want to play and experiment with the build system.. learn which traits and stats work well together and try different things.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Soldiers is by no means terrible. I've used it on my Warrior pretty much since 2012/2013. Now I agree it doesn't have the dps, esp vs later content mobs, but I have otherwise found it has worked perfectly for me. It allows me to be virtually unkillable in open world alongside my blocks, parries and high cc and means I can help keep team mates on their feet in fights. I wouldn't take it to instances, but I am very, very happy with soldiers in open world

    Soldiers just prob isn't right for your playstyle or build though.

    I'm 100% in agreement with Randulf here, I've been using Solder Stats on a Necromancer build since before Gw2 had expansions and it can be extremely good in PvE content, make you practically unkillable and perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    People like to hate on Soldier stats more than it deserves imo, it's by no means going to be top tier DPS or anything but it does have it's uses and I would argue that for some classes it's one of the best all rounder stat sets you can have providing you know how to build a good/reliable build around the set.

    I have personally soloed a lot of Gw2 content with Soldier Stats gear, even dungeons and fractals content which is designed for 5 man groups, as well as group based content in the open world like legendary bounties in PoF and even world bosses before they got 15 minute timers on them.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    Soldier can work fine for a beginner. Selecting the right traits to get some damage multipliers and offensive boons (might, fury, quickness) is still better than switching to berserker gear and get oneshot by half of the expac mobs as a new player.

    If you have only soldier gear (the gear from the level 80 boost), then for the PvE content it is a no-brainer to go full offensive traitlines (for warrior: strength, arms, discipline) and pick double axes as one of the two weaponsets. That should lead to somewhat around 10 to 15k dps, which is good enough to learn the game. Lots of players won't even reach these numbers with full zerk gear, because they run trash builds without synergies or die 247 as they are not good enough at the game to be able to handle full zerk gear.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the others that soldier will make you pretty hard to kill and give you all the cushion you need to walk away from fights that are going downhill. However, I think it really lacks damage and will make for a frustrating experience. Many enemies are designed to punish low DPS builds or at least reward high damage (e.g. veteran hydras that stun with every move they make but may be chain stunned to death themselves if you can deal enough damage to knock 33% off their health bar within a few seconds!). But learning how to survive and properly utilize such a build when you're brand new and just jumped into expansion content might be expecting a bit much!

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    The big problem is you used the boost instead of learning the game. Almost all veteran players discourage this; because you chose to go from being a new player to being an end-game player in an instant, then get upset about the difficulty.

    This may seem harsh, but you should think better about your decisions. This is an easy way to be put off by games.

    I'm pretty sure introducing that boost hurt player retention more than it ever helped.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 16k hours, 27k AP | ♀♥♀
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  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    The big problem is you used the boost instead of learning the game. Almost all veteran players discourage this; because you chose to go from being a new player to being an end-game player in an instant, then get upset about the difficulty.

    This may seem harsh, but you should think better about your decisions. This is an easy way to be put off by games.

    I'm pretty sure introducing that boost hurt player retention more than it ever helped.

    I don't know if I'd blame the player on this one. The boost is offered and perhaps it shouldn't be for first timers. But it is good to share the perspective on why this might not be a great idea.

  • Unfortunately gw2 is not very beginner friendly despite being catered to casual players. In order to figure out how to acquire the right gear, get exotic/ascended stats, make half decent builds, get involved in end game content etc. you pretty much have to figure it out from outside sources. It doesnt help that there is a huge difficulty gap between the core game (levels 1-80), and the expansions.

    Your best options are probably to look up open-world builds, and focus entirely on making a decent build for your preferred class. You will learn how to be effective in combat with practice, but as a new player your build/class can make or break your experience of the game.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BeastNHisHarlot.4865 said:
    I began playing a few days ago as a necromancer and really enjoyed myself. I decided to drop the $50 to upgrade to the full thing to get all the content and the level 80 boost was a nice bonus. Used the boost on a warrior since what I looked up said that they are some of the more tanky classes and are used in a lot of endgame content.

    I used the boost and started to play around. I went to the Path of Fire expansion with my newly acquired gear and am getting smashed. Battles are taking forever and I have no survivability. I assume that I am unable to do this content without the appropriate gear, so I try to queue for a fractal as I expected them to be a group activity. Nope. I got placed in the tier 1 fractal by myself and promptly received my own kitten again.

    I am confused and frustrated. I feel as though I cannot do any content because it is all too hard. I have searched for better gear with the measly 3 gold I have to my name, but everything that I can afford looks much worse than what I have equipped. I have played around with my skills a bit but nothing seems to make a big difference. I like what I hear about endgame (horizontal progression, no pressure to be ultra elite), but I'm starting to wonder if I will even get to there.

    Does anyone have any tips for progression paths or something else that I can do to be capable to do even level 80 story content?

    Thank you to all who reply with anything other than something about how I suck. I'm well aware. This is my first MMO. Be gentle.

    Are you EU or NA? If you're NA just shoot me a PM here and Ill happily run through the content with you and show you some stuff. I am always happy to show new players around~

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @BeastNHisHarlot.4865 said:
    I began playing a few days ago as a necromancer and really enjoyed myself. I decided to drop the $50 to upgrade to the full thing to get all the content and the level 80 boost was a nice bonus. Used the boost on a warrior since what I looked up said that they are some of the more tanky classes and are used in a lot of endgame content.

    I used the boost and started to play around. I went to the Path of Fire expansion with my newly acquired gear and am getting smashed. Battles are taking forever and I have no survivability. I assume that I am unable to do this content without the appropriate gear, so I try to queue for a fractal as I expected them to be a group activity. Nope. I got placed in the tier 1 fractal by myself and promptly received my own kitten again.

    I am confused and frustrated. I feel as though I cannot do any content because it is all too hard. I have searched for better gear with the measly 3 gold I have to my name, but everything that I can afford looks much worse than what I have equipped. I have played around with my skills a bit but nothing seems to make a big difference. I like what I hear about endgame (horizontal progression, no pressure to be ultra elite), but I'm starting to wonder if I will even get to there.

    Does anyone have any tips for progression paths or something else that I can do to be capable to do even level 80 story content?

    Thank you to all who reply with anything other than something about how I suck. I'm well aware. This is my first MMO. Be gentle.

    Are you EU or NA? If you're NA just shoot me a PM here and Ill happily run through the content with you and show you some stuff. I am always happy to show new players around~

    Same here. If you need a hand unlocking an elite spec (the HoT hero points spawn tough champions and can be difficult to find!), I'm happy to help with that. Also on NA servers.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Soldiers is by no means terrible. I've used it on my Warrior pretty much since 2012/2013. Now I agree it doesn't have the dps, esp vs later content mobs, but I have otherwise found it has worked perfectly for me. It allows me to be virtually unkillable in open world alongside my blocks, parries and high cc and means I can help keep team mates on their feet in fights. I wouldn't take it to instances, but I am very, very happy with soldiers in open world

    I understand what you say, but I think that extensive use of Soldier pieces make you just a punching bag. It just delays the inevitable a bit. And still, I definitely use more defensive gears, for example Marauder, Minstrel, Trailblazer and such depending on class and what I am playing. On Warrior, I trust more to offensive power, and traits that work when you play offensively (e.g. Might heal, as Might generates on strikes, Mending as healing skill etc) and try to trait and gear up so that I am hard to put stay still (as being able not to strike can bring certain death. At the same time I admit that it is not as easy to do at the beginning, and that is why I found Warrior much later in the game.

    On classes like Elementalist I really understand Soldier pieces. Elementalist is low-HP, low-armor class. In Berserker pieces, Elementalist has like half of the HP of the Warrior and Necro, and you need to slot quite a bunch of Toughness pieces to take the armor at the same level on Necro or Elementalist what it is on Warrior just in zerker gears. That said, IMO Warrior is passively pretty resilent against both power and condition damage just as it is, and extensive use of Toughness and Vitality (instead of offensive stats) in gears will not make as big impact as you might think.

    This concerns of course mainly power damage and Open World PvE. Condition damage builds - for example Necromancer and Mesmer - can benefit a lot from gears like Dire and Trailblazer, which makes them tanky as hell. Also, support classes in WvW/PvP groups can really benefit on stats like Minstrels, as they are generally primary targets and their damage output in groups is meaningless.

    But all that said, I really agree with you to certain point, and I advice new players to slot some Soldier pieces to builds to make them more comfortable, but going far above 20k HP and 2500 armor is probably just overkill (for OW PvE). It either makes you a punching bag for mobs if you are inexperienced, or it prolongs the fight unnecessarily if you are experienced.

    EDIT: Ah, forgot to say - there is one good reason why Necro or Ranger suit so well to new players: they have minions. They will take some aggro and give you breathing room, and you can watch from bit distance what is happening around, and thus they give excellent opportunity to learn things. Both classes surely have quite good sustain on their own, too.

    Going to HoT may be worse since it is argued HoT is much harder than PoF in terms of surviving. Using a boost as a new player is likely the issue because you haven't adjusted to the learning curve - a curve which is very steep between core and the expansions. You are better off learning your class first before going to endgame areas like HoT and PoF. You are basically going to the high end open world, without knowing the game

    Here I agree with you 100%

    One of the most important aspects is to learn the art of dodging. Much of your survivability comes from mitigating damage from dodge timing and condition clearing. Once you have a reasonable stat build that works for you (it's not important to be too analytical in the open world with stat builds), your weapon and utility skills build will be the most vital thing to work on.

    Yes. GW2 is a game, where the combat revolves around actively avoiding damage instead of mitigating it. Learning to avoid the damage, learning what are the big skills and lethal attacks from mobs and how they are countered (e.g. interrupting) plays a big role.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    Also whatever people say about gear and build, at your stage, it is not gear that is holding you back, it is game knowledge and mechanics. So movement, dodging and knowing your characters arsenal. And you get that by playing.

    That is probably very true, BUT many PoF enemies require also decent gears and decent builds to be handled alone. Core Tyria not that much (but it helps(*)), Orr bit more, HoT - definitely, PoF - unnecessarily hard if your gears and build do not match to your class and its strenghts.

    EDIT: (*) Try low level warrior, and switch sword to axe, and trait axe, and you see how much easier it is.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    Skimmed the thread, but if you boosted to 80 get yourself Berserker gear , assassin's gear (not a full set), or some pieces of marauder gear. Please don't run soldier's gear in fractals, it has the 5% base crit chance and zero ferocity which means your criticals hit for 150% instead of the typical 2x or more,

    If you really struggle, then run marauder and maybe a few cavalier trinkets, but at least try to have 45+% crit rate without the use of fury/party help.

    The only time full toughness makes sense is if you're a tank/healer (minstrel) or running full trailblazer condi builds where the enemy does high amounts of nonlethal damage.

  • Innokatsu.2937Innokatsu.2937 Member
    edited October 14, 2020

    I bought the expansions literally a week ago so I'm in a similar situation. The only difference is that I manually leveled to 80. Unfortunately the LFG is quite dead for certain aspects of the game but for an 8 year old game it's pretty normal. I advise you to join an active guild and ask for help when you feel stuck. When the game releases on Steam in Nov, hopefully the game will have an influx of players to make LFG viable again. Also make sure to check out metabattle or snowcrow for builds.

    For the gear & money aspect, I just bought some gems and sold them for gold to gear myself. I know I can farm them but with a full time job, I'd rather use the hours to play the content I enjoy and not grind my butt off.

    I'm pretty much struggling to progress through HoT myself, mobs hit hard and there aren't many people doing events :/

    edit: Thankfully I did listen to other people about not boosting to level 80 for your first char. You learn the game a lot better that way it definitely helps me in terms of survivability. I learned that GW2 mobs aren't like most other MMOs where you can easily facetank them and be okay (lower levels are fine, but definitely not expansion mobs). You actually need to plan ahead and actively dodge to mitigate damage. There is no potion and there is one healing skill, aaand thats it lol.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It appears from your comment OP that you have made a typical new player mistake.

    You started with a Necromancer (didn't specify what level you got it too) and then jumped to a level 80 boosted warrior and went straight into Path of Fire..
    I strongly do not recommend that people do this when they are new to the game.

    You've skipped over the entire leveling experience that will have helped you get familiarised with the Warrior class..
    Thankfully though all you really need to do is go back to the start with your warrior and play through the core game content and experiment, you can do this with your 80 warrior easily enough so it's not too big a problem.

    The expansions and living world content was designed for people who already have a good deal of experience with Gw2 and the classes they play, this is largely why you're getting smashed there..

    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.
    Heart of Thorns is notorious for destroying players who have done exactly that which is why so many often complain about it's difficulty which is much higher than the core game's admittedly but isn't all that challenging for experienced players playing classes they know very well.

    Ultimately don't feel the need to rush into newer and harder content, take your time to get familiar with the classes you want to play and experiment with the build system.. learn which traits and stats work well together and try different things.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Soldiers is by no means terrible. I've used it on my Warrior pretty much since 2012/2013. Now I agree it doesn't have the dps, esp vs later content mobs, but I have otherwise found it has worked perfectly for me. It allows me to be virtually unkillable in open world alongside my blocks, parries and high cc and means I can help keep team mates on their feet in fights. I wouldn't take it to instances, but I am very, very happy with soldiers in open world

    Soldiers just prob isn't right for your playstyle or build though.

    I'm 100% in agreement with Randulf here, I've been using Solder Stats on a Necromancer build since before Gw2 had expansions and it can be extremely good in PvE content, make you practically unkillable and perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It appears from your comment OP that you have made a typical new player mistake.

    You started with a Necromancer (didn't specify what level you got it too) and then jumped to a level 80 boosted warrior and went straight into Path of Fire..
    I strongly do not recommend that people do this when they are new to the game.

    You've skipped over the entire leveling experience that will have helped you get familiarised with the Warrior class..
    Thankfully though all you really need to do is go back to the start with your warrior and play through the core game content and experiment, you can do this with your 80 warrior easily enough so it's not too big a problem.

    The expansions and living world content was designed for people who already have a good deal of experience with Gw2 and the classes they play, this is largely why you're getting smashed there..

    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.
    Heart of Thorns is notorious for destroying players who have done exactly that which is why so many often complain about it's difficulty which is much higher than the core game's admittedly but isn't all that challenging for experienced players playing classes they know very well.

    Ultimately don't feel the need to rush into newer and harder content, take your time to get familiar with the classes you want to play and experiment with the build system.. learn which traits and stats work well together and try different things.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Soldiers is by no means terrible. I've used it on my Warrior pretty much since 2012/2013. Now I agree it doesn't have the dps, esp vs later content mobs, but I have otherwise found it has worked perfectly for me. It allows me to be virtually unkillable in open world alongside my blocks, parries and high cc and means I can help keep team mates on their feet in fights. I wouldn't take it to instances, but I am very, very happy with soldiers in open world

    Soldiers just prob isn't right for your playstyle or build though.

    I'm 100% in agreement with Randulf here, I've been using Solder Stats on a Necromancer build since before Gw2 had expansions and it can be extremely good in PvE content, make you practically unkillable and perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    Well my advice was not to use soldiers if it didn't work for them, to learn their character, learn their skills, learn about dodges and learn about mitigations.

    That's not really bad advice to give a new player as far as I can see.

    The reason I can say Soldiers isn't worth dismissing (which is the crux of the first part of my post) is that I've had 8 years practice with it and have been extremely happy with the defensive side of the results, even if - as I said - there are better dps options and it is unsuited to instanced play.

    Prob better than putting down or challenging us, is to give your own advice and give the op a broader range of options to follow. I have no doubt as an experienced player, they'd benefit from your own advice

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It appears from your comment OP that you have made a typical new player mistake.

    You started with a Necromancer (didn't specify what level you got it too) and then jumped to a level 80 boosted warrior and went straight into Path of Fire..
    I strongly do not recommend that people do this when they are new to the game.

    You've skipped over the entire leveling experience that will have helped you get familiarised with the Warrior class..
    Thankfully though all you really need to do is go back to the start with your warrior and play through the core game content and experiment, you can do this with your 80 warrior easily enough so it's not too big a problem.

    The expansions and living world content was designed for people who already have a good deal of experience with Gw2 and the classes they play, this is largely why you're getting smashed there..

    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.
    Heart of Thorns is notorious for destroying players who have done exactly that which is why so many often complain about it's difficulty which is much higher than the core game's admittedly but isn't all that challenging for experienced players playing classes they know very well.

    Ultimately don't feel the need to rush into newer and harder content, take your time to get familiar with the classes you want to play and experiment with the build system.. learn which traits and stats work well together and try different things.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Soldiers is by no means terrible. I've used it on my Warrior pretty much since 2012/2013. Now I agree it doesn't have the dps, esp vs later content mobs, but I have otherwise found it has worked perfectly for me. It allows me to be virtually unkillable in open world alongside my blocks, parries and high cc and means I can help keep team mates on their feet in fights. I wouldn't take it to instances, but I am very, very happy with soldiers in open world

    Soldiers just prob isn't right for your playstyle or build though.

    I'm 100% in agreement with Randulf here, I've been using Solder Stats on a Necromancer build since before Gw2 had expansions and it can be extremely good in PvE content, make you practically unkillable and perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    Soldier would be sufficient for solo work against bosses such as most of the HoT champions. PoF bounties would be difficult because they have far more health and unstable magic mechanics are quite punishing for solo players.

    It's worth mentioning, however, that most classes and builds running glass stats would find most of the bounties difficult to survive.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    I don't have any decent way to reliably record video, I'm not into that kind of thing so I never learned nor had any interest in how that kind of software works nor how to edit it appropriately to save time and cut down upload speeds.
    Besides Gw2 is unreliable atm and im not actively playing much because of the lag issues, nothing I could record right now would be good enough because I can't play the game like I normally would be able to.

    Anyway I was not advising OP play soldiers gear, I was only defending and noting the potential merits of Soldiers gear based on my own long time experience of using it just because others wrote it off so easily, that is unfortunately a common attitude a number of people tend to have about the set and personally I believe it to be an unfair one.. hence the defence.

    All the main advice I give to the OP about their situation was above any comments I made defending Soldier's Gear.
    I also specifically said this as well:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    "that for some classes it's one of the best all rounder stat sets you can have providing you know how to build a good/reliable build around the set."

    That directly ties into the advice I give the OP about first learning how to play their class and how the build system works.
    A new player just adopting a tanky soldier build would be equally as harmful as them adopting any meta build and rolling through content, I even said as much:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It appears from your comment OP that you have made a typical new player mistake.

    You started with a Necromancer (didn't specify what level you got it too) and then jumped to a level 80 boosted warrior and went straight into Path of Fire..
    I strongly do not recommend that people do this when they are new to the game.

    You've skipped over the entire leveling experience that will have helped you get familiarised with the Warrior class..
    Thankfully though all you really need to do is go back to the start with your warrior and play through the core game content and experiment, you can do this with your 80 warrior easily enough so it's not too big a problem.

    The expansions and living world content was designed for people who already have a good deal of experience with Gw2 and the classes they play, this is largely why you're getting smashed there..

    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.
    Heart of Thorns is notorious for destroying players who have done exactly that which is why so many often complain about it's difficulty which is much higher than the core game's admittedly but isn't all that challenging for experienced players playing classes they know very well.

    Ultimately don't feel the need to rush into newer and harder content, take your time to get familiar with the classes you want to play and experiment with the build system.. learn which traits and stats work well together and try different things.

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Soldiers is by no means terrible. I've used it on my Warrior pretty much since 2012/2013. Now I agree it doesn't have the dps, esp vs later content mobs, but I have otherwise found it has worked perfectly for me. It allows me to be virtually unkillable in open world alongside my blocks, parries and high cc and means I can help keep team mates on their feet in fights. I wouldn't take it to instances, but I am very, very happy with soldiers in open world

    Soldiers just prob isn't right for your playstyle or build though.

    I'm 100% in agreement with Randulf here, I've been using Solder Stats on a Necromancer build since before Gw2 had expansions and it can be extremely good in PvE content, make you practically unkillable and perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    Reaper can kill vets in 5sec on Soldier's due to traits. Stats don't matter and never have, only build matters in this game.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 16k hours, 27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    I don't have any decent way to reliably record video, I'm not into that kind of thing so I never learned nor had any interest in how that kind of software works nor how to edit it appropriately to save time and cut down upload speeds.
    Besides Gw2 is unreliable atm and im not actively playing much because of the lag issues, nothing I could record right now would be good enough because I can't play the game like I normally would be able to.

    Anyway I was not advising OP play soldiers gear, I was only defending and noting the potential merits of Soldiers gear based on my own long time experience of using it just because others wrote it off so easily, that is unfortunately a common attitude a number of people tend to have about the set and personally I believe it to be an unfair one.. hence the defence.

    All the main advice I give to the OP about their situation was above any comments I made defending Soldier's Gear.
    I also specifically said this as well:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    "that for some classes it's one of the best all rounder stat sets you can have providing you know how to build a good/reliable build around the set."

    That directly ties into the advice I give the OP about first learning how to play their class and how the build system works.
    A new player just adopting a tanky soldier build would be equally as harmful as them adopting any meta build and rolling through content, I even said as much:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.

    it's funny how you don't quote yourself saying:

    perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    Seriously... what are you actually soloing in Soldier's Gear that constitutes "the games toughest PvE content"?
    Explorable dungeon paths?... t4 fractals?
    What have you actually solo'ed in this gear set?
    Can't take a video?.... that's fine... a few screenshots with your combat log up will suffice.
    You want to "defend the stat set"?... cool.... lets see some data/proof.
    Because I have serious doubts, despite your claims, that you could personally solo a desert bounty within the ten minute timer wearing Soldier's gear.
    Desert Bounties are not the "games toughest PVE content".... shouldn't be too hard.
    I would happily be proven wrong.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Reaper can kill vets in 5sec on Soldier's due to traits. Stats don't matter and never have, only build matters in this game.

    Veteran trash mobs huh?
    Super impressive.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    I don't have any decent way to reliably record video, I'm not into that kind of thing so I never learned nor had any interest in how that kind of software works nor how to edit it appropriately to save time and cut down upload speeds.
    Besides Gw2 is unreliable atm and im not actively playing much because of the lag issues, nothing I could record right now would be good enough because I can't play the game like I normally would be able to.

    Anyway I was not advising OP play soldiers gear, I was only defending and noting the potential merits of Soldiers gear based on my own long time experience of using it just because others wrote it off so easily, that is unfortunately a common attitude a number of people tend to have about the set and personally I believe it to be an unfair one.. hence the defence.

    All the main advice I give to the OP about their situation was above any comments I made defending Soldier's Gear.
    I also specifically said this as well:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    "that for some classes it's one of the best all rounder stat sets you can have providing you know how to build a good/reliable build around the set."

    That directly ties into the advice I give the OP about first learning how to play their class and how the build system works.
    A new player just adopting a tanky soldier build would be equally as harmful as them adopting any meta build and rolling through content, I even said as much:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.

    it's funny how you don't quote yourself saying:

    perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    Seriously... what are you actually soloing in Soldier's Gear that constitutes "the games toughest PvE content"?
    Explorable dungeon paths?... t4 fractals?
    What have you actually solo'ed in this gear set?
    Can't take a video?.... that's fine... a few screenshots with your combat log up will suffice.
    You want to "defend the stat set"?... cool.... lets see some data/proof.
    Because I have serious doubts, despite your claims, that you could personally solo a desert bounty within the ten minute timer wearing Soldier's gear.
    Desert Bounties are not the "games toughest PVE content".... shouldn't be too hard.
    I would happily be proven wrong.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Reaper can kill vets in 5sec on Soldier's due to traits. Stats don't matter and never have, only build matters in this game.

    Veteran trash mobs huh?
    Super impressive.

    Its not meant to impress anyone, so your reply is somewhat confusing. I'm just stating what most long-term players already know; the power and strength of your builds come from the build itself, especially the runes, sigils, and traits, and your gameplay; how well you dodge, etc. You can increase or reduce your stats all you want, it won't change anything in most fights.

    Step out of perfectly scripted raid and step into WvW for a change, stats won't help you. They barely help even in instanced PvE content, their only function increasing damage which while seemingly impressive to hit big numbers like 30-40k DPS, is completely unnecessary since all content is outmanned with just regular groups, even raids which can be done with half a squad or in just greens showing this.

    There's a speedrun guild which kills Chak Grrent in a few mins only with just random PUGs, having perfected the encounter.

    Impressing others by doing bounties just shows my point; having to challenge yourself to do "group content" as one player. And even then, it doesn't come down to your stats, besides maybe Power or Condition Damage, but to the build, timing & usage of skills, and dodging.

    The 'zerker meta that was optimal for the first few years of the game didn't exist because it was a cool stat combination, it existed just so players would wear something in content that made wearing almost anything unnecessary.

    Sets like Berserker and especially Marauder can even give diminishing returns depending on build, due to capping crit chance, and the already very-high base critical damage of 150% which doesn't increase very much with Ferocity (average is 200%, which is only 33% more, and on crits only). Majority of damage in the game comes from +Power relative to enemy defense and %damage modifiers.

    And even though Power is a stat, being provided by Might stacking, and some aura effects means that even full support healers go into fights with around 2k Power, matching the average defense of 1.9-2.2k.

    There's some exceptions like how Ele and Thief need some +Vit to have 15k HP and not get one-shot, but that's about it. Even increasing support stats rarely matters; most encounters are overhealed with just a single healer due to dodging and damage mitigation; many boons can be overstacked with little or no Boon Duration, depending on party composition, as well.

    You should try not to confuse min/maxing with "viable" or "useful". Champion/Legendary soloers play the game in a way not intended (though still scripted), so of course they need the extra benefit, but otherwise its an edge case.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 16k hours, 27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    I don't have any decent way to reliably record video, I'm not into that kind of thing so I never learned nor had any interest in how that kind of software works nor how to edit it appropriately to save time and cut down upload speeds.
    Besides Gw2 is unreliable atm and im not actively playing much because of the lag issues, nothing I could record right now would be good enough because I can't play the game like I normally would be able to.

    Anyway I was not advising OP play soldiers gear, I was only defending and noting the potential merits of Soldiers gear based on my own long time experience of using it just because others wrote it off so easily, that is unfortunately a common attitude a number of people tend to have about the set and personally I believe it to be an unfair one.. hence the defence.

    All the main advice I give to the OP about their situation was above any comments I made defending Soldier's Gear.
    I also specifically said this as well:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    "that for some classes it's one of the best all rounder stat sets you can have providing you know how to build a good/reliable build around the set."

    That directly ties into the advice I give the OP about first learning how to play their class and how the build system works.
    A new player just adopting a tanky soldier build would be equally as harmful as them adopting any meta build and rolling through content, I even said as much:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.

    it's funny how you don't quote yourself saying:

    perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    Seriously... what are you actually soloing in Soldier's Gear that constitutes "the games toughest PvE content"?
    Explorable dungeon paths?... t4 fractals?
    What have you actually solo'ed in this gear set?
    Can't take a video?.... that's fine... a few screenshots with your combat log up will suffice.
    You want to "defend the stat set"?... cool.... lets see some data/proof.
    Because I have serious doubts, despite your claims, that you could personally solo a desert bounty within the ten minute timer wearing Soldier's gear.
    Desert Bounties are not the "games toughest PVE content".... shouldn't be too hard.
    I would happily be proven wrong.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Reaper can kill vets in 5sec on Soldier's due to traits. Stats don't matter and never have, only build matters in this game.

    Veteran trash mobs huh?
    Super impressive.

    Its not meant to impress anyone, so your reply is somewhat confusing. I'm just stating what most long-term players already know; the power and strength of your builds come from the build itself, especially the runes, sigils, and traits, and your gameplay; how well you dodge, etc. You can increase or reduce your stats all you want, it won't change anything in most fights.

    Step out of perfectly scripted raid and step into WvW for a change, stats won't help you. They barely help even in instanced PvE content, their only function increasing damage which while seemingly impressive to hit big numbers like 30-40k DPS, is completely unnecessary since all content is outmanned with just regular groups, even raids which can be done with half a squad or in just greens showing this.

    There's a speedrun guild which kills Chak Grrent in a few mins only with just random PUGs, having perfected the encounter.

    Impressing others by doing bounties just shows my point; having to challenge yourself to do "group content" as one player. And even then, it doesn't come down to your stats, besides maybe Power or Condition Damage, but to the build, timing & usage of skills, and dodging.

    The 'zerker meta that was optimal for the first few years of the game didn't exist because it was a cool stat combination, it existed just so players would wear something in content that made wearing almost anything unnecessary.

    Sets like Berserker and especially Marauder can even give diminishing returns depending on build, due to capping crit chance, and the already very-high base critical damage of 150% which doesn't increase very much with Ferocity (average is 200%, which is only 33% more, and on crits only). Majority of damage in the game comes from +Power relative to enemy defense and %damage modifiers.

    And even though Power is a stat, being provided by Might stacking, and some aura effects means that even full support healers go into fights with around 2k Power, matching the average defense of 1.9-2.2k.

    There's some exceptions like how Ele and Thief need some +Vit to have 15k HP and not get one-shot, but that's about it. Even increasing support stats rarely matters; most encounters are overhealed with just a single healer due to dodging and damage mitigation; many boons can be overstacked with little or no Boon Duration, depending on party composition, as well.

    You should try not to confuse min/maxing with "viable" or "useful". Champion/Legendary soloers play the game in a way not intended (though still scripted), so of course they need the extra benefit, but otherwise its an edge case.

    A veteran is not high end game content tho so saying the build can do that is not supporting that the build is ok soloing the high end game content.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    I don't have any decent way to reliably record video, I'm not into that kind of thing so I never learned nor had any interest in how that kind of software works nor how to edit it appropriately to save time and cut down upload speeds.
    Besides Gw2 is unreliable atm and im not actively playing much because of the lag issues, nothing I could record right now would be good enough because I can't play the game like I normally would be able to.

    Anyway I was not advising OP play soldiers gear, I was only defending and noting the potential merits of Soldiers gear based on my own long time experience of using it just because others wrote it off so easily, that is unfortunately a common attitude a number of people tend to have about the set and personally I believe it to be an unfair one.. hence the defence.

    All the main advice I give to the OP about their situation was above any comments I made defending Soldier's Gear.
    I also specifically said this as well:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    "that for some classes it's one of the best all rounder stat sets you can have providing you know how to build a good/reliable build around the set."

    That directly ties into the advice I give the OP about first learning how to play their class and how the build system works.
    A new player just adopting a tanky soldier build would be equally as harmful as them adopting any meta build and rolling through content, I even said as much:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.

    it's funny how you don't quote yourself saying:

    perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    Seriously... what are you actually soloing in Soldier's Gear that constitutes "the games toughest PvE content"?
    Explorable dungeon paths?... t4 fractals?
    What have you actually solo'ed in this gear set?
    Can't take a video?.... that's fine... a few screenshots with your combat log up will suffice.
    You want to "defend the stat set"?... cool.... lets see some data/proof.
    Because I have serious doubts, despite your claims, that you could personally solo a desert bounty within the ten minute timer wearing Soldier's gear.
    Desert Bounties are not the "games toughest PVE content".... shouldn't be too hard.
    I would happily be proven wrong.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Reaper can kill vets in 5sec on Soldier's due to traits. Stats don't matter and never have, only build matters in this game.

    Veteran trash mobs huh?
    Super impressive.

    Its not meant to impress anyone, so your reply is somewhat confusing. I'm just stating what most long-term players already know; the power and strength of your builds come from the build itself, especially the runes, sigils, and traits, and your gameplay; how well you dodge, etc. You can increase or reduce your stats all you want, it won't change anything in most fights.

    Step out of perfectly scripted raid and step into WvW for a change, stats won't help you. They barely help even in instanced PvE content, their only function increasing damage which while seemingly impressive to hit big numbers like 30-40k DPS, is completely unnecessary since all content is outmanned with just regular groups, even raids which can be done with half a squad or in just greens showing this.

    There's a speedrun guild which kills Chak Grrent in a few mins only with just random PUGs, having perfected the encounter.

    Impressing others by doing bounties just shows my point; having to challenge yourself to do "group content" as one player. And even then, it doesn't come down to your stats, besides maybe Power or Condition Damage, but to the build, timing & usage of skills, and dodging.

    The 'zerker meta that was optimal for the first few years of the game didn't exist because it was a cool stat combination, it existed just so players would wear something in content that made wearing almost anything unnecessary.

    Sets like Berserker and especially Marauder can even give diminishing returns depending on build, due to capping crit chance, and the already very-high base critical damage of 150% which doesn't increase very much with Ferocity (average is 200%, which is only 33% more, and on crits only). Majority of damage in the game comes from +Power relative to enemy defense and %damage modifiers.

    And even though Power is a stat, being provided by Might stacking, and some aura effects means that even full support healers go into fights with around 2k Power, matching the average defense of 1.9-2.2k.

    There's some exceptions like how Ele and Thief need some +Vit to have 15k HP and not get one-shot, but that's about it. Even increasing support stats rarely matters; most encounters are overhealed with just a single healer due to dodging and damage mitigation; many boons can be overstacked with little or no Boon Duration, depending on party composition, as well.

    You should try not to confuse min/maxing with "viable" or "useful". Champion/Legendary soloers play the game in a way not intended (though still scripted), so of course they need the extra benefit, but otherwise its an edge case.

    A veteran is not high end game content tho so saying the build can do that is not supporting that the build is ok soloing the high end game content.

    The OP and the thread were about OW, so it's "high-end game content" in the context of this discussion.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 16k hours, 27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    The games toughest PVE content....
    In Soldiers gear?
    I would really like to see you or @Randulf.7614 to post a video soloing truly challenging content in Soldier's gear.
    You don't have to do the real hard stuff even....a video of you soloing a desert bounty (doesn't have to be Legendary) in soldier's gear will suffice.

    I think the two of you are offering this new player absolutely awful advice.
    Post a video.
    Prove me wrong.

    I don't have any decent way to reliably record video, I'm not into that kind of thing so I never learned nor had any interest in how that kind of software works nor how to edit it appropriately to save time and cut down upload speeds.
    Besides Gw2 is unreliable atm and im not actively playing much because of the lag issues, nothing I could record right now would be good enough because I can't play the game like I normally would be able to.

    Anyway I was not advising OP play soldiers gear, I was only defending and noting the potential merits of Soldiers gear based on my own long time experience of using it just because others wrote it off so easily, that is unfortunately a common attitude a number of people tend to have about the set and personally I believe it to be an unfair one.. hence the defence.

    All the main advice I give to the OP about their situation was above any comments I made defending Soldier's Gear.
    I also specifically said this as well:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    "that for some classes it's one of the best all rounder stat sets you can have providing you know how to build a good/reliable build around the set."

    That directly ties into the advice I give the OP about first learning how to play their class and how the build system works.
    A new player just adopting a tanky soldier build would be equally as harmful as them adopting any meta build and rolling through content, I even said as much:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    It's very easy to get stuck in your ways when playing a build you got off some website and never learning how to build your own builds because of it.

    it's funny how you don't quote yourself saying:

    perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    Seriously... what are you actually soloing in Soldier's Gear that constitutes "the games toughest PvE content"?
    Explorable dungeon paths?... t4 fractals?
    What have you actually solo'ed in this gear set?
    Can't take a video?.... that's fine... a few screenshots with your combat log up will suffice.
    You want to "defend the stat set"?... cool.... lets see some data/proof.
    Because I have serious doubts, despite your claims, that you could personally solo a desert bounty within the ten minute timer wearing Soldier's gear.
    Desert Bounties are not the "games toughest PVE content".... shouldn't be too hard.
    I would happily be proven wrong.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Reaper can kill vets in 5sec on Soldier's due to traits. Stats don't matter and never have, only build matters in this game.

    Veteran trash mobs huh?
    Super impressive.

    Its not meant to impress anyone, so your reply is somewhat confusing. I'm just stating what most long-term players already know; the power and strength of your builds come from the build itself, especially the runes, sigils, and traits, and your gameplay; how well you dodge, etc. You can increase or reduce your stats all you want, it won't change anything in most fights.

    Step out of perfectly scripted raid and step into WvW for a change, stats won't help you. They barely help even in instanced PvE content, their only function increasing damage which while seemingly impressive to hit big numbers like 30-40k DPS, is completely unnecessary since all content is outmanned with just regular groups, even raids which can be done with half a squad or in just greens showing this.

    There's a speedrun guild which kills Chak Grrent in a few mins only with just random PUGs, having perfected the encounter.

    Impressing others by doing bounties just shows my point; having to challenge yourself to do "group content" as one player. And even then, it doesn't come down to your stats, besides maybe Power or Condition Damage, but to the build, timing & usage of skills, and dodging.

    The 'zerker meta that was optimal for the first few years of the game didn't exist because it was a cool stat combination, it existed just so players would wear something in content that made wearing almost anything unnecessary.

    Sets like Berserker and especially Marauder can even give diminishing returns depending on build, due to capping crit chance, and the already very-high base critical damage of 150% which doesn't increase very much with Ferocity (average is 200%, which is only 33% more, and on crits only). Majority of damage in the game comes from +Power relative to enemy defense and %damage modifiers.

    And even though Power is a stat, being provided by Might stacking, and some aura effects means that even full support healers go into fights with around 2k Power, matching the average defense of 1.9-2.2k.

    There's some exceptions like how Ele and Thief need some +Vit to have 15k HP and not get one-shot, but that's about it. Even increasing support stats rarely matters; most encounters are overhealed with just a single healer due to dodging and damage mitigation; many boons can be overstacked with little or no Boon Duration, depending on party composition, as well.

    You should try not to confuse min/maxing with "viable" or "useful". Champion/Legendary soloers play the game in a way not intended (though still scripted), so of course they need the extra benefit, but otherwise its an edge case.

    A veteran is not high end game content tho so saying the build can do that is not supporting that the build is ok soloing the high end game content.

    The OP and the thread were about OW, so it's "high-end game content" in the context of this discussion.

    Yes and there is higher enemies then veterans in the open world aswell.
    I do recall seeing both elites and champions.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    You should try not to confuse min/maxing with "viable" or "useful". Champion/Legendary soloers play the game in a way not intended (though still scripted), so of course they need the extra benefit, but otherwise its an edge case.

    That was not your claim though. Your exact claim was:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Stats don't matter and never have, only build matters in this game.

    Which is absolute rubbish and complete nonsense.

    Stats are not the single defining factor, and boons, build and gameplay all have their share in a players performance, but stating that stats have no part in it is strair up incorrect. Even more when we deduct the boons part, given that most players do not have a pocket set of supporters trailing them at all time.

    On the similar build of Daredevil, stats made up around 40% of the performance, having all boons was another 40% and actually executing the rotation was around 20% of total damage done (and mind you DD is a very autoattack heavy build). So if we subtract the boons, given they are not present at all times, do the math of how important stats are. You are free to try this out on the golem yourself as I did months ago.

    That's without even getting into the discussion of power versus condition damage for open world. There is a reason I linked Lord Hizen's channel and his trailblazer open world builds.

    Please either be more precise in your arguments, or invest proper research before making them. This is the Players helping Players forum and most new players will have a hard time distinguishing between trolling nonsense and actual information. The last thing you want is someone walking out of here thinking stats make no difference.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Regarding Soldier gear, it's not absolutely terrible because it has Power as a Primary stat. All stat combinations with Power as a Primary are decent enough for most content, especially open world, because Power is the main driving force for damage in this game. Power provides a higher damage boost than Precision and Ferocity combined, so compared to any stat combination without Power as Primary, Soldier is better. Meaning you can do worse, but of course you can do better too. Obviously talking about strictly Power builds, not condition damage builds.

    When it comes to the expansions though, the most important part for me is that expansion mobs have lower health pools than core Tyria mobs, while also dealing more damage. It's like HOT/POF mobs "wear" berserker gear, while core tyria mobs "wear" nomad gear. This mean, having a higher damage output increases your survivability, because you will kill the mobs faster. In core Tyria it doesn't matter, the only reason to go for higher damage gear is to not fall asleep because even level 80 Cursed Shore mobs hit like a wet noodle. On the other hand, in the expansions, killing a mob before it has the chance to hit you means you will survive longer. For veteran/elite/champion mobs going for higher damage, but complimenting the higher output with defensive abilities (vigor, aegis, protection, healing, block, invulnerability) will allow you to kill them while you still have active defenses available.

  • @BeastNHisHarlot.4865 said:
    Thanks for the resources. I was contemplating going back to the necromancer and progressing for a while with him. I think I may do just that since this suggestion is almost exactly what I was thinking.

    Dont be afraid to ask for help in map

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    You should try not to confuse min/maxing with "viable" or "useful". Champion/Legendary soloers play the game in a way not intended (though still scripted), so of course they need the extra benefit, but otherwise its an edge case.

    That was not your claim though. Your exact claim was:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Stats don't matter and never have, only build matters in this game.

    Which is absolute rubbish and complete nonsense.

    Stats are not the single defining factor, and boons, build and gameplay all have their share in a players performance, but stating that stats have no part in it is strair up incorrect. Even more when we deduct the boons part, given that most players do not have a pocket set of supporters trailing them at all time.

    On the similar build of Daredevil, stats made up around 40% of the performance, having all boons was another 40% and actually executing the rotation was around 20% of total damage done (and mind you DD is a very autoattack heavy build). So if we subtract the boons, given they are not present at all times, do the math of how important stats are. You are free to try this out on the golem yourself as I did months ago.

    That's without even getting into the discussion of power versus condition damage for open world. There is a reason I linked Lord Hizen's channel and his trailblazer open world builds.

    Please either be more precise in your arguments, or invest proper research before making them. This is the Players helping Players forum and most new players will have a hard time distinguishing between trolling nonsense and actual information. The last thing you want is someone walking out of here thinking stats make no difference.

    I hope the OP sees your responses, they are pretty helpful and as a vet player myself I recommend your advice here. I've browsed a few of your comments in the past and you often tend to write whatever my thoughts are without even having to post it. +1

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    it's funny how you don't quote yourself saying:

    perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    Seriously... what are you actually soloing in Soldier's Gear that constitutes "the games toughest PvE content"?
    Explorable dungeon paths?... t4 fractals?

    T3 fractals are the highest I attempted and beat but it took a long time and it was years ago I did that, things have changed there since then so I don't know if I'd do it now.. T1 and T2 stuff though sure, I'd still run those solo.
    Some explorable dungeons but again long and not worth it other than to prove to myself that I could.
    The only solo dungeon benefit I'd really recommend soldiers for now would be the story modes if you're interested in playing them on your own, they can be soloed by other gear sets too though, personally done mulitple solo story modes with Marauders and Zerkers gear builds as well.

    For the most part when I say toughest PvE content I mean open world stuff, group events, legendary enemies, bounties and stuff designed for groups.
    I don't mean Raids if that's what you were getting, and I don't regard raids as PvE content anyway.. it's it's own thing in my book.

    What have you actually solo'ed in this gear set?

    Tons of things over the years, most recently the only solo attempts i've done are the Viscount and upgraded Lab Horror.
    Viscount is much easier to solo than previous years but the Horror is much stronger now, but every attempt i've tried has been ruined by other people interfering so no solo kills yet.
    I've gotten the Viscount down to 30% solo and the Horror down to around 47% solo so I know I can still kill them both.
    In previous years I would take them both on at the same time solo and kill them but with Horrors new upgrade that isn't something i'm going to be doing anymore.

    Since you asked for specific names though these are some I remember killing.
    Bandit executioner, and several of the champ bandits.
    One of the legendary Forged bountys I forget which one exactly and tons of the champ bountys.
    Mai Trin.
    Molten Alliance bosses, original LW1 and fractal version.
    Starcaller.
    Queen Yidaxu.
    The Wyvern Patriarch.
    The Chak Crown.
    Risen Megalodon, hardly difficult now but pre expansions this one was much harder to solo.
    Bloodstone crazed Arctodus .
    Before world bosses had timers on them I killed the Fire Elemental, Jungle wurm and Golem Mk 2 solo as well.
    I think I also got OG Tequatl too before his big upgrade but I don't remember that one very well.. I know I at least attempted to kill him solo but it was so long ago and ultimately it's pointless now anyway since it obviously cannot be done anymore.

    Because I have serious doubts, despite your claims, that you could personally solo a desert bounty within the ten minute timer wearing Soldier's gear.

    The timer isn't the problem, the main problem is getting the right Unstable Magic buffs on them.
    If the bounty spawns with heavy healing buffs it's not worth fighting it.
    Main ones I look for are Exploiter and Spinning Laser as those are really easy kills and the boss can't stall with healing which is the biggest problem soloing bounties with Soldiers gear.

    Since your curious about how I get my damage on soldiers though i'll tell you.
    Necromancer doesn't need any stat investment in precision to get some crits thanks to traits, they can also get a nice chunk of ferocity from traits as well.
    It's still low end damage with soldiers gear, nobody's arguing that but I will argue it's not as low as many think it is.
    The other factor is minions, minion damage is static and doesn't change based on the Necromancers stats, so they hit just as hard on a Solder Stat build as they would on a full glass canon build which makes them useful for patching in some extra overall damage, I personally tend to have around 10-11 minions in most combat situations, all doing damage, feeding me health and taking condis from me.

    Desert Bounties are not the "games toughest PVE content".... shouldn't be too hard.
    I would happily be proven wrong.

    No they're not, but they're on the higher level for open world stuff if you're going to take them on alone.
    And like I said I don't count raids as PvE content if that's the scale of difficulty you are thinking on, Soldiers might work for tanking there but outside of that I wouldn't recommend it for that content.
    It's fine for all tiers of Fractals though so long as you bring some kind of support to the group to cover from the lower damage you'll be doing, Bloodmagic I find to be good there.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Impressing others by doing bounties just shows my point; having to challenge yourself to do "group content" as one player. And even then, it doesn't come down to your stats, besides maybe Power or Condition Damage, but to the build, timing & usage of skills, and dodging.

    Agreed, the soldier stats alone are not what make my build so difficult to kill, the sustain I get is what mostly keeps me alive and all of that comes from my skills and traits.
    The Stats just give me a nice big health pool, help me stay in shroud longer and help me tank damage, but without that sustain I wouldn't be able to solo half the stuff I have.
    And yeah the only reason I solo stuff is exactly as you said it's just a personal challenge that I enjoy in the game.. i'm just making my own fun that's all. ^^

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    it's funny how you don't quote yourself saying:

    perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    Seriously... what are you actually soloing in Soldier's Gear that constitutes "the games toughest PvE content"?
    Explorable dungeon paths?... t4 fractals?

    T3 fractals are the highest I attempted and beat but it took a long time and it was years ago I did that, things have changed there since then so I don't know if I'd do it now.. T1 and T2 stuff though sure, I'd still run those solo.
    Some explorable dungeons but again long and not worth it other than to prove to myself that I could.
    The only solo dungeon benefit I'd really recommend soldiers for now would be the story modes if you're interested in playing them on your own, they can be soloed by other gear sets too though, personally done mulitple solo story modes with Marauders and Zerkers gear builds as well.

    For the most part when I say toughest PvE content I mean open world stuff, group events, legendary enemies, bounties and stuff designed for groups.
    I don't mean Raids if that's what you were getting, and I don't regard raids as PvE content anyway.. it's it's own thing in my book.

    What have you actually solo'ed in this gear set?

    Tons of things over the years, most recently the only solo attempts i've done are the Viscount and upgraded Lab Horror.
    Viscount is much easier to solo than previous years but the Horror is much stronger now, but every attempt i've tried has been ruined by other people interfering so no solo kills yet.
    I've gotten the Viscount down to 30% solo and the Horror down to around 47% solo so I know I can still kill them both.
    In previous years I would take them both on at the same time solo and kill them but with Horrors new upgrade that isn't something i'm going to be doing anymore.

    Since you asked for specific names though these are some I remember killing.
    Bandit executioner, and several of the champ bandits.
    One of the legendary Forged bountys I forget which one exactly and tons of the champ bountys.
    Mai Trin.
    Molten Alliance bosses, original LW1 and fractal version.
    Starcaller.
    Queen Yidaxu.
    The Wyvern Patriarch.
    The Chak Crown.
    Risen Megalodon, hardly difficult now but pre expansions this one was much harder to solo.
    Bloodstone crazed Arctodus .
    Before world bosses had timers on them I killed the Fire Elemental, Jungle wurm and Golem Mk 2 solo as well.
    I think I also got OG Tequatl too before his big upgrade but I don't remember that one very well.. I know I at least attempted to kill him solo but it was so long ago and ultimately it's pointless now anyway since it obviously cannot be done anymore.

    Because I have serious doubts, despite your claims, that you could personally solo a desert bounty within the ten minute timer wearing Soldier's gear.

    The timer isn't the problem, the main problem is getting the right Unstable Magic buffs on them.
    If the bounty spawns with heavy healing buffs it's not worth fighting it.
    Main ones I look for are Exploiter and Spinning Laser as those are really easy kills and the boss can't stall with healing which is the biggest problem soloing bounties with Soldiers gear.

    Since your curious about how I get my damage on soldiers though i'll tell you.
    Necromancer doesn't need any stat investment in precision to get some crits thanks to traits, they can also get a nice chunk of ferocity from traits as well.
    It's still low end damage with soldiers gear, nobody's arguing that but I will argue it's not as low as many think it is.
    The other factor is minions, minion damage is static and doesn't change based on the Necromancers stats, so they hit just as hard on a Solder Stat build as they would on a full glass canon build which makes them useful for patching in some extra overall damage, I personally tend to have around 10-11 minions in most combat situations, all doing damage, feeding me health and taking condis from me.

    Desert Bounties are not the "games toughest PVE content".... shouldn't be too hard.
    I would happily be proven wrong.

    No they're not, but they're on the higher level for open world stuff if you're going to take them on alone.
    And like I said I don't count raids as PvE content if that's the scale of difficulty you are thinking on, Soldiers might work for tanking there but outside of that I wouldn't recommend it for that content.
    It's fine for all tiers of Fractals though so long as you bring some kind of support to the group to cover from the lower damage you'll be doing, Bloodmagic I find to be good there.

    So the only class you would advice soldier on is Necromancer then since thats the only one you speak of here?

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    it's funny how you don't quote yourself saying:

    perfect for soloing the games toughest PvE content and many of it's strongest bosses.

    Seriously... what are you actually soloing in Soldier's Gear that constitutes "the games toughest PvE content"?
    Explorable dungeon paths?... t4 fractals?

    T3 fractals are the highest I attempted and beat but it took a long time and it was years ago I did that, things have changed there since then so I don't know if I'd do it now.. T1 and T2 stuff though sure, I'd still run those solo.
    Some explorable dungeons but again long and not worth it other than to prove to myself that I could.
    The only solo dungeon benefit I'd really recommend soldiers for now would be the story modes if you're interested in playing them on your own, they can be soloed by other gear sets too though, personally done mulitple solo story modes with Marauders and Zerkers gear builds as well.

    For the most part when I say toughest PvE content I mean open world stuff, group events, legendary enemies, bounties and stuff designed for groups.
    I don't mean Raids if that's what you were getting, and I don't regard raids as PvE content anyway.. it's it's own thing in my book.

    What have you actually solo'ed in this gear set?

    Tons of things over the years, most recently the only solo attempts i've done are the Viscount and upgraded Lab Horror.
    Viscount is much easier to solo than previous years but the Horror is much stronger now, but every attempt i've tried has been ruined by other people interfering so no solo kills yet.
    I've gotten the Viscount down to 30% solo and the Horror down to around 47% solo so I know I can still kill them both.
    In previous years I would take them both on at the same time solo and kill them but with Horrors new upgrade that isn't something i'm going to be doing anymore.

    Since you asked for specific names though these are some I remember killing.
    Bandit executioner, and several of the champ bandits.
    One of the legendary Forged bountys I forget which one exactly and tons of the champ bountys.
    Mai Trin.
    Molten Alliance bosses, original LW1 and fractal version.
    Starcaller.
    Queen Yidaxu.
    The Wyvern Patriarch.
    The Chak Crown.
    Risen Megalodon, hardly difficult now but pre expansions this one was much harder to solo.
    Bloodstone crazed Arctodus .
    Before world bosses had timers on them I killed the Fire Elemental, Jungle wurm and Golem Mk 2 solo as well.
    I think I also got OG Tequatl too before his big upgrade but I don't remember that one very well.. I know I at least attempted to kill him solo but it was so long ago and ultimately it's pointless now anyway since it obviously cannot be done anymore.

    Because I have serious doubts, despite your claims, that you could personally solo a desert bounty within the ten minute timer wearing Soldier's gear.

    The timer isn't the problem, the main problem is getting the right Unstable Magic buffs on them.
    If the bounty spawns with heavy healing buffs it's not worth fighting it.
    Main ones I look for are Exploiter and Spinning Laser as those are really easy kills and the boss can't stall with healing which is the biggest problem soloing bounties with Soldiers gear.

    Since your curious about how I get my damage on soldiers though i'll tell you.
    Necromancer doesn't need any stat investment in precision to get some crits thanks to traits, they can also get a nice chunk of ferocity from traits as well.
    It's still low end damage with soldiers gear, nobody's arguing that but I will argue it's not as low as many think it is.
    The other factor is minions, minion damage is static and doesn't change based on the Necromancers stats, so they hit just as hard on a Solder Stat build as they would on a full glass canon build which makes them useful for patching in some extra overall damage, I personally tend to have around 10-11 minions in most combat situations, all doing damage, feeding me health and taking condis from me.

    Desert Bounties are not the "games toughest PVE content".... shouldn't be too hard.
    I would happily be proven wrong.

    No they're not, but they're on the higher level for open world stuff if you're going to take them on alone.
    And like I said I don't count raids as PvE content if that's the scale of difficulty you are thinking on, Soldiers might work for tanking there but outside of that I wouldn't recommend it for that content.
    It's fine for all tiers of Fractals though so long as you bring some kind of support to the group to cover from the lower damage you'll be doing, Bloodmagic I find to be good there.

    So the only class you would advice soldier on is Necromancer then since thats the only one you speak of here?

    If I had to pick just one then yes, Necromancer is definitely the class i've gotten the best results using Soldiers gear on.
    But I wouldn't rule out the potential on other classes, I expect there are other builds out there on other classes that could work well with Soldiers Gear too.

    There's probably a lot of stat sets out there that people don't use very often that might work well with some classes and builds.
    I made a Daredevil with Zealot stats a little while ago and that is really fun to play, it has great self healing sustain providing you play it right, squishy dead thief if you don't though lol

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It doesn't really matter if you use your own build or use one from someone else. What does matter if learning why the various choices are made. Partly because no build will work for everything and you will need know what the purpose of each part is for in order to adapt appropriate.

    The difference is just the order that you do the learning. In one you learn how the parts work and try to build something out of it while in the other you use a prebuilt thing and try to learn how it works.

    The key point is actually spending time learning how and why things work rather than just following a list of buttons to press which happens to do a particular thing for specific situations.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It doesn't really matter if you use your own build or use one from someone else. What does matter if learning why the various choices are made. Partly because no build will work for everything and you will need know what the purpose of each part is for in order to adapt appropriate.

    The difference is just the order that you do the learning. In one you learn how the parts work and try to build something out of it while in the other you use a prebuilt thing and try to learn how it works.

    The key point is actually spending time learning how and why things work rather than just following a list of buttons to press which happens to do a particular thing for specific situations.

    That's pretty much what I was getting at, just not in so much detail.
    What I find tends to happen is people get too comfortable when something just works so they roll with it and never really take the time to understand how it works.
    That's the big negative of just copying someone else's builds, specially if it can faceroll through most content.. it's how we end up with people going into HoT who don't know how to dodge or use CC properly, a big part of that is because they never had to use them before. >.<

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It doesn't really matter if you use your own build or use one from someone else. What does matter if learning why the various choices are made. Partly because no build will work for everything and you will need know what the purpose of each part is for in order to adapt appropriate.

    The difference is just the order that you do the learning. In one you learn how the parts work and try to build something out of it while in the other you use a prebuilt thing and try to learn how it works.

    The key point is actually spending time learning how and why things work rather than just following a list of buttons to press which happens to do a particular thing for specific situations.

    That's pretty much what I was getting at, just not in so much detail.
    What I find tends to happen is people get too comfortable when something just works so they roll with it and never really take the time to understand how it works.
    That's the big negative of just copying someone else's builds, specially if it can faceroll through most content.. it's how we end up with people going into HoT who don't know how to dodge or use CC properly, a big part of that is because they never had to use them before. >.<

    Defiance stacks before HoT also made CC useless in many cases.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    You can skip over all that learning and just adopt someone else's "meta" build etc but this again is something I would strongly not recommend either as it could deprive you of learning various other elements of your class and cause you problems down the road if you find your build doesn't work for you in certain content and you don't really understand how the build system and your class works.

    It doesn't really matter if you use your own build or use one from someone else. What does matter if learning why the various choices are made. Partly because no build will work for everything and you will need know what the purpose of each part is for in order to adapt appropriate.

    The difference is just the order that you do the learning. In one you learn how the parts work and try to build something out of it while in the other you use a prebuilt thing and try to learn how it works.

    The key point is actually spending time learning how and why things work rather than just following a list of buttons to press which happens to do a particular thing for specific situations.

    That's pretty much what I was getting at, just not in so much detail.
    What I find tends to happen is people get too comfortable when something just works so they roll with it and never really take the time to understand how it works.
    That's the big negative of just copying someone else's builds, specially if it can faceroll through most content.. it's how we end up with people going into HoT who don't know how to dodge or use CC properly, a big part of that is because they never had to use them before. >.<

    Defiance stacks before HoT also made CC useless in many cases.

    Very true, in fact the only time I found CC useful in Gw2 before HoT introduced breakbars was during the times I tried to solo champs and stuff.
    Back then you could hit these creatures with CC effects and they would gain a little defiance buff after it that you'd have to remove with additional CC attacks.
    It kind of added a bit of strategy, actively choosing which CC effect you wanted to inflict on something and managing your attacks so you could hit them with the right one.

    It stacked with players too so the more people involved in the fight the more stacks of CC you'd need to apply before the boss could be hit with a CC effect again which was a disaster in normal play since there would always be that one player who lands a knockback or fear or something that would screw up the stack and smack mentality most people had back then xD
    Ahh fun times lol

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As so many others have said, new players need to take time to memorize all of the skills available and how they interact. The same is true for trait selections and equipment stat's. It takes quite a while to learn even one profession. Then there is the problem of equipment you need to replace your default L80 boost equipment, which is more suited for casual WvW introduction.

    I recommend taking the longer road and explore core Tyria while experimenting with builds you can find on the internet and your own creations while gathering gold and materials. The personal story is a sequence of solo challenges you can use to assess your combat skills. WvW and PvP are also good tests of skills and equipment but going up against veteran players can be disheartening once you realize how much of a skill-gap there can be. Do not be discouraged. Keep learning and enjoy the experiences.

    HoT also has confusing and exceptionally dangerous maps that still get me killed after years of playing so just expect that will happen. There are often squads formed in the LFG tool to help characters through them but the tend to move quickly. There is virtually no penalty for dying so just resurrect at a waypoint and go back to finish the job.