Does the Pale Tree feel a sylvari death? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Lore

Does the Pale Tree feel a sylvari death?

Hi everyone!

My question is just as the title suggests. Do any of you know if the Pale Tree feels a sylvari death? What is it like for the Pale Tree when sylvari die? I do know that the Dream is influenced by sylvari's experiences, as the wiki explains: "Strong memories and emotions felt by her awakened children seep into the Dream, where they are added to the pool of experiences her still-developing children may drink from". But I'm not sure this actually helps answer the question.

Thank you all for your inputs!

Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I vaguely remember references the Pale Tree has made before about feeling the death of some of the characters like Trahearne or Wynne because of their connection to the Dream. I can't think of where those references are though or whether I'm imagining that

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    I vaguely remember references the Pale Tree has made before about feeling the death of some of the characters like Trahearne or Wynne because of their connection to the Dream. I can't think of where those references are though or whether I'm imagining that

    Thank you! I'll read more about those characters to see if anything is mentioned about their deaths being felt by the Pale Tree.

  • DeanBB.4268DeanBB.4268 Member ✭✭✭✭

    [SPOILER]

    I did this one recently, so remember it:

    If you've played the level 80 story, Tegwen dies a heroic death, but only the connection to the dream is mentioned. You can find the dialog on Armor Guard story on the wiki. Makes me think only the dream.

    X__________________________
    (Signature Required)

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I vaguely remember references the Pale Tree has made before about feeling the death of some of the characters like Trahearne or Wynne because of their connection to the Dream. I can't think of where those references are though or whether I'm imagining that

    I recall something similar as well, I think she does feel through the dream when one of her children dies or breaks their connection to it.

  • @DeanBB.4268 said:
    [SPOILER]

    I did this one recently, so remember it:

    If you've played the level 80 story, Tegwen dies a heroic death, but only the connection to the dream is mentioned. You can find the dialog on Armor Guard story on the wiki. Makes me think only the dream.

    Thank you, this is helpful! Reading the wiki page you mentioned, it says: "Tegwen is back with the Mother Tree now. Her memories, and our memories of her, will inspire generations of new sylvari." It still doesn't clarify if the Pale Tree felt her death per se, but at least it seems that after Tegwen died there was an immediate consequence in the Dream, and since the Pale Tree is its caretaker, I think it's safe to assume she felt something? I still don't understand if "Tegwen is back with the Mother Tree" has a literal meaning or more of a poetic/figurative meaning. Because if it's literal, then the Pale Tree would know of Tegwen's death.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    In my last comment I said "I think she does feel through the dream when one of her children dies or breaks their connection to it."
    But I don't think it's quite as specific as a Sylvari dies and then the Pale Tree knows they've died.

    To go into more detail I think it's more like the Pale Tree knows something is different within the dream after a Sylvari has died or broken away from it.. but she doesn't know for sure what has happened, it's more like a feeling or clouded sense she gets or something like that.. like we get when we feel something is wrong but we don't know what or why etc and if someone asked us what we thought was wrong we wouldn't have a clue how to reply other than "I dunno I just feel something is wrong" lol

    I think she requires additional information such as the confirmation of that Sylvari's death in order to be able to understand what those feelings mean and why she got them.
    When Wynne died she probably felt it but didn't know exactly what that feeling was until Caithe confirmed her death, same thing for other Sylvari who have died.. it's probably different every time one dies.. a unique feeling to each Sylvari otherwise Pale Tree would be pretty omniscient or something close to it and we couldn't have that :)

  • Batel.9206Batel.9206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2020

    There's a bit in the sylvari personal story, discussing Riannoc's death (emphasis added):

    PC: What happened to [Riannoc]?
    Pale Tree: He traveled far to the north, to face an evil. When he died—the sun dimmed, and the Dream wept.

    Furthermore, asking Caithe about it reveals this (emphasis added):

    Caithe: [Riannoc] was one of the Firstborn, alive when there were only twelve sylvari in the world. I knew him well. We all did.
    PC: What happened to him? The Pale Tree says he vanished?
    Caithe: Precisely. We all felt it when he died. It was like a part of the Dream was torn away—but we never knew why. Or how.

    So other sylvari (or perhaps only those sylvari the dead person was closest to) can also feel a sylvari's death.

    Don't cry, Daniel
    Fear not, Daniel
    Don't you know you're not alone?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Batel.9206 said:
    There's a bit in the sylvari personal story, discussing Riannoc's death (emphasis added):

    PC: What happened to [Riannoc]?
    Pale Tree: He traveled far to the north, to face an evil. When he died—the sun dimmed, and the Dream wept.

    Furthermore, asking Caithe about it reveals this (emphasis added):

    Caithe: [Riannoc] was one of the Firstborn, alive when there were only twelve sylvari in the world. I knew him well. We all did.
    PC: What happened to him? The Pale Tree says he vanished?
    Caithe: Precisely. We all felt it when he died. It was like a part of the Dream was torn away—but we never knew why. Or how.

    So other sylvari (or perhaps only those sylvari the dead person was closest to) can also feel a sylvari's death.

    That's the reference I'm thinking of

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Batel.9206 said:
    There's a bit in the sylvari personal story, discussing Riannoc's death (emphasis added):

    PC: What happened to [Riannoc]?
    Pale Tree: He traveled far to the north, to face an evil. When he died—the sun dimmed, and the Dream wept.

    Furthermore, asking Caithe about it reveals this (emphasis added):

    Caithe: [Riannoc] was one of the Firstborn, alive when there were only twelve sylvari in the world. I knew him well. We all did.
    PC: What happened to him? The Pale Tree says he vanished?
    Caithe: Precisely. We all felt it when he died. It was like a part of the Dream was torn away—but we never knew why. Or how.

    So other sylvari (or perhaps only those sylvari the dead person was closest to) can also feel a sylvari's death.

    Thank you! I can’t believe I didn’t remember this dialogue; it gives a pretty clear answer to my question!

  • @Batel.9206 said:
    There's a bit in the sylvari personal story, discussing Riannoc's death (emphasis added):

    PC: What happened to [Riannoc]?
    Pale Tree: He traveled far to the north, to face an evil. When he died—the sun dimmed, and the Dream wept.

    Furthermore, asking Caithe about it reveals this (emphasis added):

    Caithe: [Riannoc] was one of the Firstborn, alive when there were only twelve sylvari in the world. I knew him well. We all did.
    PC: What happened to him? The Pale Tree says he vanished?
    Caithe: Precisely. We all felt it when he died. It was like a part of the Dream was torn away—but we never knew why. Or how.

    So other sylvari (or perhaps only those sylvari the dead person was closest to) can also feel a sylvari's death.

    In addition to this example about Riannoc, we have similar dialogue for Wynne and Scarlet Briar:

    PC: You have heard of Scarlet's death?
    Avatar of the Tree: I'm aware that she is no more. I grieve for one of my children, even as I rejoice that she has been set free from the darkness that was consuming her.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Avatar_of_the_Tree#Dialogue

    PC: Does the Pale Tree know what happened with Wynne?
    Caithe: Of course. She felt Wynne's death, and the Dream revealed what had happened. I've never seen her so heartbroken. Over time she forgave me, though I don't think she ever forgave Faolain.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mystery_Cave#Back_in_the_reality

    The dialogue about Scarlet is more ambiguous in how the Pale Tree found out, though, but it does hint that it's more than just Firstborn that the Pale Tree (and sometimes other sylvari) can feel the death of through the Dream.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.