Steve too strong in Labyrinth? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Steve too strong in Labyrinth?

Did Steve (aka Labyrinthine Horror) get a buff this year?
I've been playing Halloween every year, but this years it feels like Candy boss and Lich go down in a matter of moments, while Steve requires a tremendous amount of time, slowing down farm quite a lot. Not to mention that half of the squad gets downed, due to popular low-damage builds, or removing trinkets, to allow all members to tag mobs.

Comments

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2020

    The Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, the Skeletal Lich, and the Labyrinthine Horror have had their health and damage scaling per player lowered and their base health and damage increased to provide a more even challenge across group sizes.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/116445/game-update-notes-october-13-2020#latest

    Basically, these bosses were weaker the less people were there to fight them and got way stronger as the group grew.
    Now its the other way around, they're stronger when a small group fights them, but weaker when you fight them with a squad.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • @Wolfb.7025 said:

    The Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, the Skeletal Lich, and the Labyrinthine Horror have had their health and damage scaling per player lowered and their base health and damage increased to provide a more even challenge across group sizes.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/116445/game-update-notes-october-13-2020#latest

    Basically, these bosses were weaker the less people were there to fight them and got way stronger as the group grew.
    Now its the other way around, they're stronger when a small group fights them, but weaker when you fight them with a squad.

    Interesting to see that. Because it felt like Steve got a hard buff on everything, while Viscount and Lich got nerfed. But that's going purely on feeling. Although I feel like Steve should get a nerf. I know, I know, jokes, memes, "Horror" should be scary, etc. But he feels like a very long, boring nuisance currently :(

  • @Ubi.4136 said:
    The problem with Steve is two-fold. There are new people that think melee is a good choice, and veterans who have put on minimal dps gear or no accessories so that more people can tag the mobs. What you end up with is a squad of people who keep getting downed and have low dps.

    Or people like me who are lvl'ng their twinks in the lab and wear little armor + lowlvl :''D. Steve is a pain in the kitten ...
    Had now several runs where you sat on it forever even with a full squad. Especially because everybody dies again and again, no matter if Melee or Range.

  • Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭

    Steve too stronk.

  • firedragon.8953firedragon.8953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2020

    Steve is not buff, I can't even see his muscles! He's not even skin and bones. I'm norn, I know these things.
    I just get down'ed' with with my friends and party on death's door, but in the end we always send Steve home.
    He's a menace, but important for preserving the wildlife of the labyrinth. On Halloween there is always too much living sucking the death out of the dead.

  • blp.3489blp.3489 Member ✭✭

    For me the problem is not the amount of damage you have to do to him but the damage he does to you in an instant. If you aren't at full health he'll insta-down you. And the torment that he deals out, even if you are on the other side of a wall, is nasty, you can't even run away. YMMV depending on class and build.

  • They need to nerf him big time. I want to farm w/low DPS gear, if we went in w/full zerk + cc builds we could melt him (break his bones into powder?) but that's not why or how we farm lab. It's just annoying. Maybe a lab version with no bosses!

  • OP is right. As usual, the "balance" went too far, and his constantly-spawning annoyance detracts from the fun greatly. Nerf him hard, and put a timer on him of at least 30 minutes.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I make it an annual goal to solo the viscount and Steve so yeah the differences are pretty obvious to me.

    Viscount is actually easier to deal with now in my opinion, he used to be unbelievably tanky but that seems to have been diminished a lot this year, he's pretty easy to solo now actually.

    The Lich I don't bother with solo because of the Skele summons he does, the amount of bleeds that thing can apply in seconds is insane so it's a no go solo.
    But in groups he does feel a bit easier than previous years, my guess is he's also lost a bit of his scaling buffs that made him so effective at downing large amounts of players.

    Steve.. oh boy Steve.. this thing has been given a giant case of bone roids or something because he is jacked the hell up this year.
    I was with a group of about 20-30ish people fighting the viscount last night and Steve showed up and within literally seconds.. he had downed pretty much every member of the group except for me and like 1 or two others lmao

    If you're not playing some kind of tanky build, then chances are Steve is probably going to one shot you easily.
    I ended up luring Steve away from the group and soloing him for a little bit so they could kill the Viscount and then brought him back afterwards so everyone could gank him and finish him off.
    He is still soloable if you've got a build that can deal with him but it is much much harder to do now than in previous years and he is also much tankier than he used to be as well as hitting so much harder so expect a very long and difficult fight with this thing if you do go for a solo kill.
    Hell expect a long and difficult fight if you're any kind of melee glass canon too cause you going down a lot most likely lol

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wolfb.7025 said:

    The Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn, the Skeletal Lich, and the Labyrinthine Horror have had their health and damage scaling per player lowered and their base health and damage increased to provide a more even challenge across group sizes.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/116445/game-update-notes-october-13-2020#latest

    Basically, these bosses were weaker the less people were there to fight them and got way stronger as the group grew.
    Now its the other way around, they're stronger when a small group fights them, but weaker when you fight them with a squad.

    Unfortunately, the stuff that is most problematic doesn't really scale all that well anyway, so it's not changed. And i'm quite sure that the nerf to scaling of Horror's health with bigger group sizes has been completely compensated with him having a bigger basic health pool.

    Basically: with big squad the Horror is as strong as it was before. The change just made him stronger even against smaller groups.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Doesnt matter he does a lot of damage, just seems he has way too much health. Not a health sponge, but a whole group of sponges.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Doesnt matter he does a lot of damage, just seems he has way too much health. Not a health sponge, but a whole group of sponges.

    Yea lol.

    I took him on again today with just a couple of random people (about 5 total including me) and I asked them to stay at range and let me tank the aggro.
    It worked out well, nobody got downed after they stopped going in melee and Steve spent the whole fight trying and failing to kill me so it was an easy kill for us.

    That's the best i've got for any reliable no deaths tactic on how to kill him.
    Find someone who can tank him and everyone else play it safe and stay out face meets chainsaw range >.<

  • ErikTheTyrant.4527ErikTheTyrant.4527 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2020

    Steve is not strong enough if you ask me. I think squads should have to run and hide from him, instead of fight him.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wasn't going to say I haven't noticed a big difference, he takes a bit longer to kill but not much. But I realised while reading this that's probably because I tend to pick the Lab groups with minimal requirements for joining, which are doing all the doors (including all the bosses) so we don't have people with special low damage farming builds or no armour/trinkets equipped. A lot of people are using what they would normally use in PvE (but given the people who join these groups that's unlikely to be a full ascended high DPS build either).

    It does seem strange that they did this, given they must know how people tend to approach the Labyrinth. Changing the Horror to require pretty much the opposite of what most people are using for the rest of the map seems counter-intuitive.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:
    Steve is not strong enough if you ask me. I think squads should have to run and hide from him, instead of fight him.

    Unfortunately that would make farming the lab extremely tedious, plus it would deprive us of a boss bag.

  • What's fun is fighting some legendary with a small group that's already struggling and then chainsaw guy comes along to the party and empties the map.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    It’s amazing how good players are at knocking back Halloween mobs, yet they forget how to CC Steve’s breakbar when when we all need it.

  • DeanBB.4268DeanBB.4268 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:
    Steve is not strong enough if you ask me. I think squads should have to run and hide from him, instead of fight him.

    Unfortunately that would make farming the lab extremely tedious, plus it would deprive us of a boss bag.

    Perhaps Arenanet wishes there to be more to the Lab than just farming?

    I agree that Steve is good as-is. Keep the challenge, keep the "oh-no" moments.

    X__________________________
    (Signature Required)

  • I decided to resist the urge to thank y'all for campaigning for my characters to be buffed.

    @Biff.5312 said:
    Exercise your whimsy.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeanBB.4268 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:
    Steve is not strong enough if you ask me. I think squads should have to run and hide from him, instead of fight him.

    Unfortunately that would make farming the lab extremely tedious, plus it would deprive us of a boss bag.

    Perhaps Arenanet wishes there to be more to the Lab than just farming?

    I don't think so, im pretty sure the whole map exists purely as a farming map.
    But I wouldn't mind if they made more enhancements to it.. make it bigger and add more stuff in there, it does get a little dull some years when it's just the same.
    Steve getting a nice buff has made messing with him more interesting and challenging though, i've really enjoyed my scraps with him this year. ^^

    I agree that Steve is good as-is. Keep the challenge, keep the "oh-no" moments.

    Yeah definitely, I hope they don't buff him any more though he's more than enough to deal with right now and I really don't want him to get too strong that I can't tank him or solo him anymore that would suck hard as it's something I do look forward to every year.
    With other people running low gear farming sets etc in the lab Steve is plenty a handful for most people.. sometimes entire groups >.< so he really doesn't need more buffing.
    If anything i'd say the veteran doors are probably the one thing i'd upgrade now.. scale them up to champs when groups fight them or something and throw more door events in there or random enemy zerg events or something to keep things interesting ^^

  • Donutdude.9582Donutdude.9582 Member ✭✭✭

    I love training Steve onto Viscount squads. Always gets a chuckle <3

    My Wiki Profile
    Honorary Seraph Captain
    Guardian Expert

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Donutdude.9582 said:
    I love training Steve onto Viscount squads. Always gets a chuckle <3

    I take it when kids come to your house trick or treating you're the kind of person who says Trick :P

    Steve did that on my group the other day too, wasted them in seconds lol

  • blp.3489blp.3489 Member ✭✭

    Since Steve just insta-killed me I took the opportunity to check the combat log. He hit me with 18,261 on his first attack, including the torment and bleeding. With another 2,118 spirit scream immediately after that.

  • Donutdude.9582Donutdude.9582 Member ✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I take it when kids come to your house trick or treating you're the kind of person who says Trick :P

    Steve did that on my group the other day too, wasted them in seconds lol

    C'mon. It is fun :)

    My Wiki Profile
    Honorary Seraph Captain
    Guardian Expert

  • Trinnitty.8256Trinnitty.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    If only all bosses in the lab had better loot. Drop like 100 ToT bags each or something.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Doesnt matter he does a lot of damage, just seems he has way too much health. Not a health sponge, but a whole group of sponges.

    Yea lol.

    I took him on again today with just a couple of random people (about 5 total including me) and I asked them to stay at range and let me tank the aggro.
    It worked out well, nobody got downed after they stopped going in melee and Steve spent the whole fight trying and failing to kill me so it was an easy kill for us.

    That's the best i've got for any reliable no deaths tactic on how to kill him.
    Find someone who can tank him and everyone else play it safe and stay out face meets chainsaw range >.<

    You don't need other people to be ranged.

    You just need whoever has aggro to not stupidly spin it around constantly turning its chainsaw attack into a 360 AoE instead of a fairly narrow cone. Narrow enough that you can avoid getting hit just by standing to the side while ressing.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Doesnt matter he does a lot of damage, just seems he has way too much health. Not a health sponge, but a whole group of sponges.

    Yea lol.

    I took him on again today with just a couple of random people (about 5 total including me) and I asked them to stay at range and let me tank the aggro.
    It worked out well, nobody got downed after they stopped going in melee and Steve spent the whole fight trying and failing to kill me so it was an easy kill for us.

    That's the best i've got for any reliable no deaths tactic on how to kill him.
    Find someone who can tank him and everyone else play it safe and stay out face meets chainsaw range >.<

    You don't need other people to be ranged.

    You just need whoever has aggro to not stupidly spin it around constantly turning its chainsaw attack into a 360 AoE instead of a fairly narrow cone. Narrow enough that you can avoid getting hit just by standing to the side while ressing.

    Nah he tends to do that all on his own.
    When others get too close he may randomly swap target to them causing the spin, seen that happen many times which isn't anything I did nor could prevent from happening.
    Also seen a lot of players just wander right in front of him and get one shot as well lol

    The way I see it is if you know something can down you in one shot then just don't try and melee it, it's not worth the risk unless you know you can dodge it's attacks.
    The Lab Horrors attacks have huge tells though and are very very easy to see coming, it's surprising how many people he downs when you consider that.
    People be trying to Gohan him or something I dunno lol
    Maybe I should get me a green Sylvari named Piccolo and just yell DOOODDDGGEEEE!!! at them XD

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, Steve hits like a truck this year. But i think it's fine this way, there should be some challenge. The mindless farming gets boring after a while.

  • @Ubi.4136 said:
    The problem with Steve is two-fold. There are new people that think melee is a good choice, and veterans who have put on minimal dps gear or no accessories so that more people can tag the mobs. What you end up with is a squad of people who keep getting downed and have low dps.

    I feel like the solution is to go hybrid DPS/heals/support so the group does pretty low damage but has high sustain.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    The problem with Steve is two-fold. There are new people that think melee is a good choice, and veterans who have put on minimal dps gear or no accessories so that more people can tag the mobs. What you end up with is a squad of people who keep getting downed and have low dps.

    I feel like the solution is to go hybrid DPS/heals/support so the group does pretty low damage but has high sustain.

    This is what I do, I farm labyrinth with a healer firebrand build that has high defense stats too.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    The problem with Steve is two-fold. There are new people that think melee is a good choice, and veterans who have put on minimal dps gear or no accessories so that more people can tag the mobs. What you end up with is a squad of people who keep getting downed and have low dps.

    I feel like the solution is to go hybrid DPS/heals/support so the group does pretty low damage but has high sustain.

    That works ... assuming you don't have people who just walks into attacks anyway.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2020

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    I think he's perfect as it is. It's supposed to be a scary labyrinth, Steve is scary.

    Not scary, more like annoying, ohko machine

    Not that the downed state on open world pve matters anyways, you get resue'd in two or three seconds.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • @DeanBB.4268 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:
    Steve is not strong enough if you ask me. I think squads should have to run and hide from him, instead of fight him.

    Unfortunately that would make farming the lab extremely tedious, plus it would deprive us of a boss bag.

    Perhaps Arenanet wishes there to be more to the Lab than just farming?

    I agree that Steve is good as-is. Keep the challenge, keep the "oh-no" moments.

    If that's the case, they should at least add something to the Labyrinth options to lock him back up for if/when a train isn't running. I was in there trying to get the Halloween dailies done and he made it so all you could do was farm, as the only safe zone was the center. There were also maybe three or four people in the map, not nearly enough to put him down without a lot of heavy coordination.

    Try to tag a door for Shut and Locked? You get either a swarm of minions or a vet...and Steve!
    Try to carve a pumpkin? Get carved up by Steve instead!
    Try to join the race? Don't forget to check that rearview mirror, because Steve is right behind you!

    Sure, he's got the huge bubble so he's fairly easy to track, but considering the respawn rates and time it takes him to circle, that mean mostly holing up in the center courtyard farming the mobs there until you get a brief window to duck into the outer ring while hoping no accidentally aggroes him into you. Personally I'd suggest one of two things:
    1) Put a timer on him that pauses when he's actively fighting someone (if possible) but which otherwise runs down when he's just patrolling. That way the maps that want to fight him can grind away, while those who don't can play hide and go seek.
    OR
    2) Set it up so you can pay the Lunatic Court to send him home for a certain amount of gold.
    Then tie either one to resetting his door so he's ready to come out and play once there are enough people to keep him entertained. Admittedly, I think the first option would work better, but I'm not not a programmer.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We managed to chip away 15% of his hp with 3 players (though that took many deaths). It's definitely more challenging without extra people. I'm pretty sure you can still do alright as a minion master necromancer, or a group of 5 with a healer

  • New Lab-meta. Only Minion Master with Healer. Like in the old fractal-days. GG :D

  • Goettel.4389Goettel.4389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Leave Steve alone!

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    here is what I do when i tag up

    I tell ppl ignore him and keep running, the little annoyance he give is outnumbered by the number of bags I farm
    he only has 1 chainsaw insta down attack which can be danced around

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2020

    @Valor Singus.7049 said:
    1) Put a timer on him that pauses when he's actively fighting someone (if possible) but which otherwise runs down when he's just patrolling. That way the maps that want to fight him can grind away, while those who don't can play hide and go seek.

    I'm actually all for this one.

    I think it would be pretty cool if he had a timer like that, say 20 mins or something and once it expires he retreats.
    I would add to it that there should be a map wide message pop up that says Steve has returned to the abyss with X new souls.
    Aside from being an obvious heads up to players that he's de-spawned it would also be a fun little gimmick to see how many players he killed while he was running around ^^
    Thematically it would be a fun fit for the Labyrinth, they could even add some silly little hidden achievement when you've been killed by him or something.

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    We managed to chip away 15% of his hp with 3 players (though that took many deaths). It's definitely more challenging without extra people. I'm pretty sure you can still do alright as a minion master necromancer, or a group of 5 with a healer

    Minion Master is what I take him on with but you need to be very tanky and have a ton of self sustain and CC.. and even with all that, it's still a long and tough fight but you can beat him even alone.. just takes a good while.

  • Chichimec.9364Chichimec.9364 Member ✭✭✭

    Hehe, this morning I joined a lab group billed as mob doors only, ignoring the big bosses. The zerg ran that way for a while and I was doing well with my shortbow daredevil. Then the original commander had to leave and a different commander took over. Without telling anyone, the second commander started opening every door and sought out fights with the big bosses. When people asked why the heck he was doing that, he insisted it was far more efficient to farm the lab that way. Problem was that a number of people left the squad at that point and the dps of those who remained was so low that we were barely able to take down Steve and the other big bosses after looonnnggg battles. The new commander started yelling at people about their dps and I finally gave up on that squad, heading off to join another. The moral of this story I guess is that people come into the lab with certain expectations of how they want to play. A good commander understands that and communicates the playstyle the group will be using clearly so people can decide for themselves if they want to play that way or not. Demanding that a whole group change their playstyle to fit what you want to do does not make for good leadership. It just makes a mess. :)

    Oh, and my ToT bag intake didn't go up under the new commander, it went way down because it was taking us so long to beat the big bosses.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    Is there some way that this can be turned off, or only triggered when there are at least N number of people in the map?

    Because it's frustrating to die again, and again, and again as a group when there's only 4-5 of you.

    So a big disadvantage of trying to find those LFG groups with few people, entering those LFG squads, is that the LH is too strong for too few players. Breakbar sure, but my hard breakbar is every 90 seconds