One chance to perform a drastic measure in the name of game balance : WWYD? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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One chance to perform a drastic measure in the name of game balance : WWYD?

Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 18, 2020 in Professions

I think I'm gonna lock all the best pvp, wvw and pve players and the balance team together in one room, and have the balance team play with these top tier players repeatedly until they realize how badly balanced their game is.

Edit: yes they will be fed, be allowed to bathe and have change of clothes, I'm not a monster.

If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

Comments

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What I would do:
    Rework totally hard CC philosophy. Right now the hard CC philosophy lean toward "long" duration CC locked behind relatively long cast time, I'd make it lean toward short cast time interupt.

    Why I would do it:
    It is not fun to be CC chained, it is not fun to be forced into an helpless passive stance for a relatively long time without real mean to react except a limited amount of stunbreak.

    How I'd do it:
    Change stability from it's current form of "CC block" stacking to a 100% CC effects reduction (be it in duration or distance launched) stacking in duration (however, landing a CC would still interupt with or without stability).

    Consequences:
    It would allow the possibility to return damages to the skills applying CC and introduce more quick CC with very short duration aimed at interupting as an answer to an incoming threat instead of locking down the foe pre-emptively in order to prevent it from using something threatening or not.

  • redo aoe. its broken in all game modes. most skills do way too much and are way too spam-able.

    limit autos 1h to 1 target, 2h 2 target, rifle/ staff/ longbow 3 target.
    get rid of multi effect skills. no more (x effects 5 enemies 5 allies), its either or now. things like symbols gotta figure out what they wanna be, damage or support? no more pulsing boons, conditions, heals, and damage in one thing. you're either damage or heals, and maybe a condi/ boon (damage gets condi, heal gets boon). not only will this clean up fights it should save a bit of server power.
    utility skills have the capacity to effect up to 20 allies/ enemies now.
    make sure support aoe priority in squad goes from 1st party, then to the one below it etc. bottom squad aoe goes to top squad.
    if it helps save server power, make damage aoe effect people randomly within its radius instead of doing areas checks for every model.
    limit multi hit skills (hundred blades, blurred frenzy) to 2 hits per sec and change damage accordingly.

    while they're at it, put caps on boons and condis. its outta control (both stacks and duration). no more 10+ sec of cripple/ chill, 10+ stacks of burn/ confuse, 10+ sec of quickness/ resistance. that is dumb.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    redo aoe. its broken in all game modes. most skills do way too much and are way too spam-able.

    I've never understood, damage wise, why Anet never implemented the whole "100% Damage to primary target, 50% to all others" thing that other MMOs did.
    Condis on the other hand.... idk.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2020

    Short answer: Reevaluate everything that does three things at once (this is independent of game mode) especially if it's AOE ; doubly so if it's ranged.

    The problem is the double standard that has been put into place, since warrior CC damage was absolutely gutted to the point that hammer is only run for boon rip + CC. You can't actually do damage with it in WVW unless the enemy has no stability at any point because the damage is loaded onto hammer #2 (Fierce Blow) which is dependent on hitting a controlled foe.

    edit: I would also add that anything that is tacked on a healing skill is clunky whether it is Mantra of Solace (more so in PVE with Liberator's Vow), Lesser Muddy Terrain (Child of Earth trait , more so in WvW/PVP) , Lesser Grenade Barrage (more so in PVP), or other such skills. Back when Method of Madness was used with Chrono it was the same situation.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I think I'm gonna lock all the best pvp, wvw and pve players and the balance team together in one room, and have the balance team play with these top tier players repeatedly until they realize how badly balanced their game is.

    Edit: yes they will be fed, be allowed to bathe and have change of clothes, I'm not a monster.

    This would accomplish nothing, because it's clear that Anet's goal for balancing has nothing to do with what players find optimal in any of these game modes. In fact, the we have the balance we have BECAUSE of the way the game is designed. If you want better balance, what you need is a new game that offers a larger number of approaches to win it. There simply isn't enough of these win strategies to increase the pool of 'balanced' builds.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2020

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    This would accomplish nothing, because it's clear that Anet's goal for balancing has nothing to do with what players find optimal in any of these game modes. In fact, the we have the balance we have BECAUSE of the way the game is designed. If you want better balance, what you need is a new game that offers a larger number of approaches to win it. There simply isn't enough of these win strategies to increase the pool of 'balanced' builds.

    The intention is to just have a bunch of the best mode players playing with them and showing them all the cheese meta builds so that they can see exactly what sort of garbage their slip-shod balancing has brought about but okay lol.

    Why?
    Because I'm utterly convinced Anet (the devs) does not play their own game, and even when they do, they only pop their heads out ever so often and probably not enough to yield results.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I think I'm gonna lock all the best pvp, wvw and pve players and the balance team together in one room, and have the balance team play with these top tier players repeatedly until they realize how badly balanced their game is.

    Edit: yes they will be fed, be allowed to bathe and have change of clothes, I'm not a monster.

    Rework all the classes/E-specs. To bring them to where the team wants the modern guild wars 2 to be at; This is a sweeping change that goes acrossed all of the modes and regardless of what they change its what they desire from specs/classes. This way we would have a more concrete and solid foundation, to build upon and tweak and it would give chances for underperforming weapons to be looked at and overhauled to ensure that ALL of the game is viable in some method and its not because of gimmicks or broken interactions.

  • Drastically tone down the Power of all PvE mobs, eliminate their 3.5s after-attack cooldown periods. This will make survivability stats useful, and tone down the efficiency of dodges, blocks, evades, etc.
    Implement enemy casting bars. It is aboslutely puzzling to me how they didn't make it into the game.
    Rework how some of the boons and conditions worked.
    Prevent the "tab" target switching from focusing on an innocent Moa walking by behind you.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2020

    Drastically buff the Ranger Longbow to improve QoL for players who have friends who like to play bearbow, but are also too polite to tell them they are the weak link in the group.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    This would accomplish nothing, because it's clear that Anet's goal for balancing has nothing to do with what players find optimal in any of these game modes. In fact, the we have the balance we have BECAUSE of the way the game is designed. If you want better balance, what you need is a new game that offers a larger number of approaches to win it. There simply isn't enough of these win strategies to increase the pool of 'balanced' builds.

    The intention is to just have a bunch of the best mode players playing with them and showing them all the cheese meta builds so that they can see exactly what sort of garbage their slip-shod balancing has brought about but okay lol.

    Why?
    Because I'm utterly convinced Anet (the devs) does not play their own game, and even when they do, they only pop their heads out ever so often and probably not enough to yield results.

    well, you can convince yourself whatever you like ... this activity would accomplish nothing. Even if they were aware of meta cheese builds ... I doubt they would be overly concerned. I wouldn't be ... it's a consequence of how the game is designed. We could never have a large volume of balanced builds in this game.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • @Obtena.7952 said:
    well, you can convince yourself whatever you like ... this activity would accomplish nothing. Even if they were aware of meta cheese builds ... I doubt they would be overly concerned. I wouldn't be ... it's a consequence of how the game is designed. We could never have a large volume of balanced builds in this game.

    we do have a large number of balanced builds in this game, and how would the top players showing anet the cheese builds change that for the worse?

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    we do have a large number of balanced builds in this game, and how would the top players showing anet the cheese builds change that for the worse?

    Like top 10% of builds make the game GG easy, while the remaining 90% can't hope to compete with the top 10%
    That's one of the major problems with this game's balance right now.

    Would be actually funny if people can pick what professions to ban per match/content but Gw2 is not that sort of game.
    So in order to restore balance, devs need to be tortured by playing with or against these builds so that they can understand "hey, maybe we need to tone these things down, and maybe buff other things"

    As of now, their balance strategy is to send in a payload of volatile changes every 6 months, then spend the next 6 months "balancing" the game.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    well, you can convince yourself whatever you like ... this activity would accomplish nothing. Even if they were aware of meta cheese builds ... I doubt they would be overly concerned. I wouldn't be ... it's a consequence of how the game is designed. We could never have a large volume of balanced builds in this game.

    we do have a large number of balanced builds in this game, and how would the top players showing anet the cheese builds change that for the worse?

    It wouldn't ... my point is that it wouldn't make it better. The idea that Anet isn't 'aware' of these builds is wishful thinking, like somehow if they become aware ... all the sudden they are going to become enlightened and balance the game like players expect them to. That doesn't make sense. It disregards the whole history of this game and Anet's approach to changing it.

    But hey ... if we have a large number of balanced builds in this game like you say ... then we don't have a problem here in the first place do we ... :wink:

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Top 3 changes
    1. Reduce protection to -15% damage
    2. Toughness now reduce all damage types, caps at -15% damage
    3. Might now caps damage increases by 10% at max stacks


    1. Boons need to be reworked heavily regarding duration. They have far too much uptime, and too much availability from all classes.
    2. Conditions need to be reworked as well; there is far to much application availability

    1. Lastly, particle effect need to be turned down or off... these ruin the game on so many levels...
  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    1. Reduce protection to -15% damage

    Would like to tap on this note, because this is something I wanna talk about Protection for a long time.
    WHY THE HELL IS PROTECTION THIS STRONG AND ABLE TO BE LAYERED WITH WEAKNESS?

    It makes sense sure, that back when Power burst builds are all over the place, Protection 33% reduction and Weakness graze was still acceptable.
    After the blanket nerfs to power nerfing everything by 33%, any build which can give themselves Protection and apply Weakness simply shrugs off any Power based attack.

    I literally fought an MM Necro yesterday which dealt like 0 friggin damage but couldn't be killed either because DM was giving him pulsing Protect and he was applying Weakness.

    This is pretty disgusting tbh, and simply encourages bunker builds.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    we do have a large number of balanced builds in this game, and how would the top players showing anet the cheese builds change that for the worse?

    Like top 10% of builds make the game GG easy, while the remaining 90% can't hope to compete with the top 10%
    That's one of the major problems with this game's balance right now.

    Would be actually funny if people can pick what professions to ban per match/content but Gw2 is not that sort of game.
    So in order to restore balance, devs need to be tortured by playing with or against these builds so that they can understand "hey, maybe we need to tone these things down, and maybe buff other things"

    As of now, their balance strategy is to send in a payload of volatile changes every 6 months, then spend the next 6 months "balancing" the game.

    ye i'm not disagreeing, would be nice to see a fresh approach to the whole thing.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Top 3 changes
    1. Reduce protection to -15% damage
    2. Toughness now reduce all damage types, caps at -15% damage
    3. Might now caps damage increases by 10% at max stacks

    So, in short, totally rework damage formulae?

    1. Boons need to be reworked heavily regarding duration. They have far too much uptime, and too much availability from all classes.

    True. I would say that, at least, being dependant on combo and combo finishers in the early days of the game was a better design than having boons so readily available like they are right now.

    1. Conditions need to be reworked as well; there is far to much application availability

    Well, that's an arguable point. It's true for debilitating conditions, but not necessarily true for damaging conditions. I would say that the main issue with conditions is more that they aren't as effectives against AI than they are against players and this imbalance between gamemodes ultimatly hurt the balance of the game as a whole.

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Top 3 changes
    1. Reduce protection to -15% damage
    2. Toughness now reduce all damage types, caps at -15% damage
    3. Might now caps damage increases by 10% at max stacks

    So, in short, totally rework damage formulae?

    1. Boons need to be reworked heavily regarding duration. They have far too much uptime, and too much availability from all classes.

    True. I would say that, at least, being dependant on combo and combo finishers in the early days of the game was a better design than having boons so readily available like they are right now.

    1. Conditions need to be reworked as well; there is far to much application availability

    Well, that's an arguable point. It's true for debilitating conditions, but not necessarily true for damaging conditions. I would say that the main issue with conditions is more that they aren't as effectives against AI than they are against players and this imbalance between gamemodes ultimatly hurt the balance of the game as a whole.

    Removal of concentration and boon duration and tie boons exclusive to blasting fields and tie condis to projectile and finishers and healing to swirl would fix alot

  • Refine projectile tracking and hit detection for starters. There are still skills like tremor and impairing daggers that can't reliably hit from a distance due to their low velocity. Even higher-velocity projectiles like true shot and hip shot can still miss at random on open fields.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Big toss-up between visual clarity and major boon overhauls/AoE boon nerfs. I'm not really sure which I personally think is more important.
    I'm sick of everything being on the status bar or a laser-show of effects with glowing weapons/armor/infusions/consumables. The game was literally released with MO and CJ explicitly saying that they do not want players having to constantly check opponents' status bars.

    Both require extensive work to fix correctly due to their rolling impact on other things, which is probably why neither have happened.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • @Opopanax.1803 said:
    6. Lastly, particle effect need to be turned down or off... these ruin the game on so many levels...

    A note for this - you can set the game to the lowest graphics. That'll remove many VFX.

    Playing a nice-looking game is optional (for many RiP our potato brethren) - so if you do want it to be ugly/'less distracting', there is already the option for this.


    TBH though, this achieves the opposite effect of balance. You actually want more pronounced and beautiful visual effects for skills - it telegraphs skills to other players. And it generally makes the game more pleasing to observe. Win-win.

    Conversely, less visual effects hides what is going on and makes it harder/impossible for the player to tell what is hitting them or where to avoid. Making effects invisible or not pronounced ends up making the game more imbalanced and less amusing to watch.

    Having more bombastic and entertaining visual effects ends up having a gameplay effect - it lets players know what is going on. That is important.

    IMO, they need to turn up visual effects and make them cooler/more distinct.

    Do you want a balanced GW2? Then you are obliged to unironically agree with this suggestion!

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    Add a third stat need for condition damage to be potent, just like Power damage needing Power, Precision and Ferocity. Rename the Condition Damage Stat to Rancor and Condition Damage is now equal to (Power + Rancor)/2. Glassy stats won't be affected, but the tankier stats would have have their efficacy reduced.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aplethoraof.2643 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    6. Lastly, particle effect need to be turned down or off... these ruin the game on so many levels...

    A note for this - you can set the game to the lowest graphics. That'll remove many VFX.

    Playing a nice-looking game is optional (for many RiP our potato brethren) - so if you do want it to be ugly/'less distracting', there is already the option in game.

    I have tried this, but unfortunately it also turns off tells in pve, strikes, dungeons etc, so not a good option.