Is Ranger basically the only class with huge penalties in PvP?

As far as I can see, ranger is the only class with basically double CD on almost everything and sustain halved in PvP compared to WvW and all other professions: the soulbeast utilities have double CD, sustain traits are reduced by 2/3 and Druid has double CD on their mechanic.......I don't see with other professions that enjoy same benefits both in PvP and WvW.My question is simple : Why has ranger received such heavy handed changes when other professions have not?

I may be wrong but as far I can see....playing ranger in PvP is truly a daunting experience compared to WvW...other professions don't suffer nearly as much with the same transition between modes.

@"Supreme.3164" said:As far as I can see, ranger is the only class with basically double CD on almost everything and sustain halved in PvP compared to WvW and all other professions: the soulbeast utilities have double CD

By "almost everything" and "soulbeast utilities" you mean...... Dolyak Stance. Way to exaggerate. It'll definitely make people take your post seriously.

No, ranger is not the only class that has certain utilities/traits/weapons significantly buffed/nerfed between WvW and PvP. The premise of your post is un-founded.

And it's easy to understand why some things that might be okay in WvW, would be over/under-powered in PvP and therefore be nerfed/buffed accordingly; because they're very different game-modes with different objectives and scenarios. Ranger has never been meta in large-scale WvW and has therefore never been a target for balancing there, but it has at various times been meta in PvP. The specific utility you have issue with comes as a result of Boonbeast being meta in 2018/2019.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"Supreme.3164" said:As far as I can see,

ranger is the only class with basically double CD on almost everything and sustain halved in PvP

compared to WvW and all other professions: the soulbeast utilities have double CD

I don't get your passive aggression...no need for that...chill.I am not stating anything I am declaring facts: soulbeast boon uptime was completely gutted but holo and rev/guardian boon uptime is basically the same in both modes,moa stance and dolyak stance CD was doubled and no other professions don't have that...otherwise you can drop your aggressive stance and actually tell me where I am wrong.Druid has double CD on the main mechanic and double CD on Ancient seed but other professions don't seem to have same penalty on the same main traits which can be used freely both in wvw and in pvp with. Some core traits have halved duration like , some soulbeast traits** have reduced percentage.

I am only declaring facts...no need to be so aggressive

@Supreme.3164 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:As far as I can see,

ranger is the only class with basically double CD on almost everything and sustain halved in PvP

compared to WvW and all other professions: the soulbeast utilities have double CD

You're not wrong about anything. Ranger always has been one of the classes they like to shove under the bus for some reason. It has only ever been meta and used in tournament twice since PoF release. Once during the original Boonbeast phase, which only lasted a couple seasons. Then it happened again recently with Core Ranger before Knight/Marks nerfs, which lasted for a season and half lol. It's always been subpar and thus it sees no representation in MAT play or any tournament. It also sees very very little representation in top 100 play, or even casual ATs throughout the day. The only people who can make Ranger work, are like the utmost of dedicated enthusiasts who play only Ranger and love it even when it sucks. And even those players, can't make it work in a truly competitive environment like MAT.

Cracks me up though because THE VERY MOMENT ranger will be viable as meta, anet freaks out and always over nerfs it like, immediately. But for some reason certain other classes are always allowed to remain in some saiyan like state of over poweredness for elongated amounts of time, such as current Holosmith as an example.

It happens for two main reasons, which the ranger police has figured out a long time ago:

1. Ranger is a class that has a weird curve for effectiveness. What I mean is that it is very strong in bell curve or bellow play, where players don't quite understand how to be perceptive and utilize LOS, or properly utilize their reflect CDs, or how to exploit pet's bad AI pathing, and all that stuff. People at these levels complain about Ranger like it's some juggernaut that can't be dealt with. But like immediately as the Ranger crosses the threshold of those types of players into say 1500+ players, people don't have so many l2p issues, they utilize LOS, they know how to exploit bad pet pathing, and the Ranger begins to struggle.
2. ^ In conjunction with the above point made, then what happens is that the bulk of the player base IS the bell curve or bellow people and all of those people aren't happy with Ranger balance until the class sucks so bad that they don't need to LOS or learn how to work around pets. So they complain and complain until it gets nerfed. Then when the Ranger is actually trying to compete at higher tiers of play where players already knew how to deal with Ranger mechanics, then the Ranger sucks. It's just Anet catering to a lot of l2p QQ. The very same thing happened to Rifle Deadeye. That build was never good competitively in conquest, even back when DJ unblockable it was still bad. But they just kept listening to all l2p QQ until Rifle DE became a bottom tier build.

Ranger has the problem, that the weapon set (GS) got multiple times nerfed but birds were the main problem.Now ranger can only kite while pet is killing your opponent or you go some soulbeast memebuilds

@Supreme.3164 said:As far as I can see, ranger is the only class with basically double CD on almost everything and sustain halved in PvP compared to WvW and all other professions: the soulbeast utilities have double CD, sustain traits are reduced by 2/3 and Druid has double CD on their mechanic.......I don't see with other professions that enjoy same benefits both in PvP and WvW.My question is simple : Why has ranger received such heavy handed changes when other professions have not?

Other professions do have such disparities as well, because ultimately sPvP and WvW are still different gamemodes. And easy example is Scourge's Sand savant which affect a different number of targets in sPvP and WvW. Or warrior's balanced stance... etc. It's little differences that make sense within the context, since on one side you have a controled environment for small scale fights (sPvP) while on the other you have an unrestrained environment where the player can be involved into large scale battles (WvW).

@Supreme.3164 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:As far as I can see,

ranger is the only class with basically double CD on almost everything and sustain halved in PvP

compared to WvW and all other professions: the soulbeast utilities have double CD

I think other classes have the same penalties in PvP/WvW, maybe you didn't notice it yet.

Some examples from holosmith:

• hard light arena has it's duration halfed in competitive modes (from 8/12 seconds duration to 4/6 seconds duration)
• spectrum shield has it's damage reduction halfed (from 50% damage reduction to 25% damage reduction)
• enhanced capacity storage unit has it's might stacks halfed (from 2 stacks might per pulse to 1)
• thermal release valve's attack is heavily nerfed (power coefficient from 1,1 in PvE to 0,1 in PvP/WvW, burn stacks from 2 stacks with 6 seconds duration in PvE to 1 stack with 2 seconds duration in PvP/WvW)
• cooldown of holo leap is doubled (from 2 seconds to 4 seconds)
• laser's edge's damage modifier is almost halfed (from 25% more damage at 100 heat to 15% more damage at 100 heat)

Hi, I'd like to introduce you to Mirage.

Nonono, you guys don't understand, its ONLY ranger that has anything nerfed in PvP.

:eyeroll:

@Supreme.3164 said:As far as I can see, ranger is the only class with basically double CD on almost everything and sustain halved in PvP compared to WvW and all other professions: the soulbeast utilities have double CD, sustain traits are reduced by 2/3 and Druid has double CD on their mechanic.......I don't see with other professions that enjoy same benefits both in PvP and WvW.My question is simple : Why has ranger received such heavy handed changes when other professions have not?

I may be wrong but as far I can see....playing ranger in PvP is truly a daunting experience compared to WvW...other professions don't suffer nearly as much with the same transition between modes.Both extremes, bunker boonbeast and glass burstbeast are next to explosive holo the most overtuned roaming builds in wvw. All three of them are favored in every single fight as long as the encounter can't leave the fight for some reason.

Maybe that's the reason for the pvp nerfs...

Condi rev did get away with most of its pre-pvp-nerf balancing in wvw, because it can be countered with the much higher damage potential and sigil of cleansing removing 3 conditions in that game mode - which does not work for e.g. holo, that simply avoids most of the damage (and therefore is broken in both game modes).

For the same reasons like rev, core necro gets away with unnerfed carapace and unnerfed sigil of undeath in wvw. It needs more sustain as it is much easier to burst, as (unlike soulbeast) it lacks mobility.

Ranger is arguably the best side node class rn- it has a super strong tanky or hybrid core build with menders amulet, an ok decap build and a few soulbeast builds that can function highly well

they goofed ranger and its especs cuz they couldn't identify key traits/ utilities that were breaking them.

It's probably necro (all stunbreaks cost almost double) and mirage (1 dodge).

i'd like to introduce you to Berserker

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:As far as I can see,

ranger is the only class with basically double CD on almost everything and sustain halved in PvP

compared to WvW and all other professions: the soulbeast utilities have double CD, sustain traits are reduced by 2/3 and Druid has double CD on their mechanic.......I don't see with other professions that enjoy same benefits both in PvP and WvW.My question is simple : Why has ranger received such heavy handed changes when other professions have not?

I may be wrong but as far I can see....playing ranger in PvP is truly a daunting experience compared to WvW...other professions don't suffer nearly as much with the same transition between modes.Both extremes, bunker boonbeast and glass burstbeast are next to explosive holo the most overtuned roaming builds in wvw. All three of them are favored in every single fight as long as the encounter can't leave the fight for some reason.

Soulbeast being good in wvw is definitely a thing. Arguably I'd say that Soulbeast is a top 2 roamer in wvw. But in wvw the parameters are COMPLETELY different. You have super sigils/runes to work and food/utility buffs, which enables it to do certain things that are not even close to possible in spvp. For example, the build that I run in wvw does: Full Berserker with 2x divinity rings + Pack Runes = Just about 33% boon duartion. It has nearly 100% Fury uptime due to this in conjunction with Writ of Masterful Accuracy & the Pack Rune Prec = above 90% crit chance. Obviously it uses Sweet Butternut Squash for performance + Bloodlust on GS side = a lot of + power that stacks when with small groups or zergs that toss might. This build can generally nuke anything from ranged in 1s or less, if the target is flatfooted and uses no defense skills and doesn't gap close. Keep in mind we are talking full DPS build here, Quick Zeph/SicEm/OneWolfPack - Wild/Beast/Soul. It works well in wvw because there is always a large range gap to close before opponents meet, and even with zergs, a glass cannon that is highly mobile can weave in & out of a zerg and have plenty of cover to do what it needs to do.

However... believing that Soulbeast is the only god mode roamer is mythical sasquatch garbage. Soulbeast is perhaps the easier class to be able to make strong in roaming because most of the options to do are the cheap options that are readily available to purchase with gold only, such as berserker and pack runes and squash, ect. It's all available through the TP and easy to obtain. Other classes can be every bit as strong of a roamer as a Soulbeast, but players don't see this so often in wvw anymore for a few big reasons: 1) No hardcore players are really just out roaming around at this point because wvw is dead. 2) Deviating from listed zerg meta or spvp meta requires a bit ingenuity that most people don't have. They just copy/paste from the weakly listed small scale skirmish meta pages, which have aweful aweful weak builds presented, as if the people labeling these sites didn't know how to utilize the options in this game. 3) A lot of other classes require special currencies that aren't so easy to obtain, to have the options to make their class/build ridiculous. Examples being durability runes or draining sigils or trailblazer gear which is expensive as hell to build or takes a long time to build a full setup. So really what you have going on with the Soulbeast in wvw, is exactly like what's going on in spvp. In a world of g2 material walking around, the Soulbeasts feel strong. But if there were to be something like another wvw tournament even for 7 days, you'd have all the try hard legends showing back up, and I guarantee you they'd be configuring builds that exploit Torment Rune/Sigil healing to the fullest, along with mass CC interrupt builds that exploit Draining sigil healing/damage to the fullest, on builds using Super Holographic Cake that have a lot of life regen base, and almost bottomless dodge rolling. If guys think Soulbeast is the acme & summit of brokenness in wvw, you haven't experimented with much yet.

Screams in Mirage

There is a lot of haters of Soul Beast. Anet just 'caved' to them. I'm not sure why they just don't get rid of Soul Beast completely.

Well thief is also a easy picking in victimizing and kicking it when its down.

OH you can teleport and stealth but their sustain is from teleports and evades what are they gonna do if they keep losing mobility? KEEP NERFING THIEVES OP OP.

Lets leave thief alone for once with nerf bat.

Truth be told for almost as long as nec has been a victim of anti necro mob, thief was also a victim, and the hate has gotten out of control with a mob demanging it get gutted. Its tiring really.

@Drake.1840 said:There is a lot of haters of Soul Beast. Anet just 'caved' to them. I'm not sure why they just don't get rid of Soul Beast completely.

Pray that the class/spec you love to play is always hated by others...it means it's still worth to log in.....instead if nobody complain about your favourite class (or worst people on the forum consider it BALANCED) then you may really consider to either uninstall the game or change professions asap...not I am not joking

It's good that some people still hate on ranger...it means the class it's still playable and fun to use in its own terms

No they aren't.They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions.

Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving.

Distant, bitter laughter

If the ranger fails both dodges, while I dodge twice successfully, also the ranger fails to cc wings of resolve, or steps in heal trap(both heals have to be successful), then ranger stands in all my symbols I can down them, but I don't have the cooldowns/cleave to kill them so I have to stomp, and hope their pet doesn't down me, because if they use rapid fire properly then I won't have the blocks needed to stomp them.Rapid fire does 5x damage of true shot, and the duration makes dodging it very inefficient as you can only evade 3/10 arrows per dodge meaning you take 2k damage if you wasted 2 dodges and that would leave you in grave trouble from their secondary weapon.Berserk DH isn't viable, but please nerf our auto attack, I'm tired of it being 90% of my damage

@Arheundel.6451 said:Pray that the class/spec you love to play is always hated by others...it means it's still worth to log in.....instead if nobody complain about your favourite class (or worst people on the forum consider it BALANCED) then you may really consider to either uninstall the game or change professions asap...not I am not joking

It's good that some people still hate on ranger...it means the class it's still playable and fun to use in its own terms.

Soul-Beast is destroyed. I don't think any of the truly serious Soul-Beast players really is invested any longer in this broken spec. I agree with the earlier comment that ANets constant Nerfs are just PVP game breaking (in the end). And to your point, no one really gets upset at Soul Beast anymore. Well done Anet, just keep caving. Let's see if you can keep all the cry babies happy all the time.

I'd like to introduce you to Mirage's one dodge :smile:

Just one of the ranger squad here to complain. Blah blah engineer is always better blah blah first holo now scrapper