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How the new Fractal CM KP(Killproof) system promotes toxicity.


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Hello,

I am a veteran fractal player and have been doing CMs daily for almost 2 years now. I join 250KP+ groups since those are the people I feel more comfortable playing with.

I know GW2 is against Killproofs, gear checking, DPS meter etc but I really tried taking people without KP in CMs and even if I spent 10 hours helping them, they wouldn't be able to get the kill. So you understand, when you have daily CMs, you can't expect people to spend countless hours with new players. Most of the times, they have limited time and want to get the kill with people that have similar experience. This is how I enjoy the game. So now with the new system that doesn't allow players to show pingable KP, only 2 groups of people do CMs. Veterans like me, and people faking their KP through chat code manipulation. This massively increases toxicity since people have expectations that are not met when people fake KP.

Here is 1 example that happened today. The performance of some people was far below average which made me check killproof.me to see if they actually have the 250 old KP we asked, or faking it. Upon doing so, I found that they were indeed faking it and then called them out on it. And you can see in screenshots what happened. They were being offensive, blocked me, and tried to kick me from group. I included all relevant screenshots (didn't hide a part where I acted poorly for example).

This is a problem that will keep happening and will keep getting worse as more people get experience but no killproof. I understand that Anet doesn't want to promote Elitism and toxicity but their efforts had the opposite effect. You can't have challenging content without requirements. DPS meter, Gear check and legitimate way to show killproof is what the game needs. It won't affect the average GW2 player and it will really help people that like challenging content, enjoy it more. No one likes kicking people from their group but that is what the game is forcing us to do. That's why we need those features.

Thank you.

Screenshots: (I cropped the names to keep their privacy)https://imgur.com/a/cvt8v2m

Edit: After playing for a few days after the post, blocking seems to be the only thing you can do now but I block at least 3-5 people daily before i get a decent group. I am not even talking to anyone other than pinging my KP. People just act like trash to each other. Personally i think the KP system now it's completely destroyed and will only keep getting worse. Now I just make my group requirement "Fractal God+DwD". Takes longer but your chances are better. When you think anet can't make something worse, they always surprise you. Sigh...

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Nothing changed about faking. You could before. You can now. You just can't actually earn anything to ping now so any new good player on your skill level can never ping anything or earn anything to ping and thus eliminated from joining many groups. Now sure this guy scammed you but he could've done the same thing 5 months ago. The system hasn't become more toxic it already was they just made it harder to check and impossible to earn the old stuff to join current groups. So if someone is underperforming it is up to you to notice remove replace or carry.

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@Jilora.9524 said:Nothing changed about faking. You could before. You can now. You just can't actually earn anything to ping now so any new good player on your skill level can never ping anything or earn anything to ping and thus eliminated from joining many groups. Now sure this guy scammed you but he could've done the same thing 5 months ago. The system hasn't become more toxic it already was they just made it harder to check and impossible to earn the old stuff to join current groups. So if someone is underperforming it is up to you to notice remove replace or carry.

The problem is that before, a person could join low KP groups and start earning enough KP to join 250+. Now their only option is to fake it or not play. If you are gonna fake, might as well do it at 250 right? Not to mention how people that legitimate have 50 for example, need to fake as well since their skill has improved but not their KP.

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@Abysswalker.5319 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:Nothing changed about faking. You could before. You can now. You just can't actually earn anything to ping now so any new good player on your skill level can never ping anything or earn anything to ping and thus eliminated from joining many groups. Now sure this guy scammed you but he could've done the same thing 5 months ago. The system hasn't become more toxic it already was they just made it harder to check and impossible to earn the old stuff to join current groups. So if someone is underperforming it is up to you to notice remove replace or carry.

The problem is that before, a person could join low KP groups and start earning enough KP to join 250+. Now their only option is to fake it or not play. If you are gonna fake, might as well do it at 250 right? Not to mention how people that legitimate have 50 for example, need to fake as well since their skill has improved but not their KP.

@Jilora.9524 said:Nothing changed about faking. You could before. You can now. You just can't actually earn anything to ping now so any new good player on your skill level can never ping anything or earn anything to ping and thus eliminated from joining many groups. Now sure this guy scammed you but he could've done the same thing 5 months ago. The system hasn't become more toxic it already was they just made it harder to check and impossible to earn the old stuff to join current groups. So if someone is underperforming it is up to you to notice remove replace or carry.

The problem is that before, a person could join low KP groups and start earning enough KP to join 250+. Now their only option is to fake it or not play. If you are gonna fake, might as well do it at 250 right? Not to mention how people that legitimate have 50 for example, need to fake as well since their skill has improved but not their KP.

Yeah but it's only toxic if the person who now has to fake it fakes above his/her skill level. You are never going to check the dude or find out some dude has faked if he performs well. I don't get if you think a dude faking it is toxic then requiring stuff we can't earn isn't. They both are. I get why. You want to finish fast. You don't want to waste time but in doing so some players that are as good as you or better will never be able to join your reqs because they can't earn anything. That's the problem not that some scrub snuck into your group. Both behaviors are toxic. His by wasting everyone's time and yours be excluding w/o playing with someone first to see. Again I get it. Do what you have to do to make your experience better.My question tho.In this fractal run were you wiping? Was it a shit show? Because if it was and you were then you are totally justified to call out and remove. But if you were beating the content and you just noticed you had to work a little harder and just called this guy out because he was underperforming in content you were beating anyway then your the toxic one.

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Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

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@"Snipoukos.4912" said:Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

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To be honest, KP system has its flaws but at least it shows how many times you killed that boss. It breeds much more relaxed gameplay experience for people who does it regularly. If someone is faking his kp, that needs to be called out then taking care of.

I can understand having less kp but at least keep it up group's performance in general. That is acceptable in my terms. Basically while faking your kp, you disrespect people who is asking for similar experience to finish this dailies.

Like one of hardcore MMOs's WoW, you can literally check, that player's gear, traits/talents, how many times that person killed that boss and its dates. It also have several dps meter programs which approved and used by almost all raider players. That's how you weed out experienced player and someone who is learning/getting into that content. If you make people blind, it starts suspicions, suspicisions start accusations and it breeds more toxicity which ArenaNet is trying to prevent.It isn't shameful there are different skill-based groups and you belong below or medium but not high one. You slowly work your way to the higher tier of skill groups.There is huge difference between kill each boss in 1-2 mins, 5 mins and 15 mins in timewise if you run this show for long time.

ArenaNet should improve this KP system make it easily accessable like checking armory of people for gearchecks. Spending more than few hours in fractal isn't really convenint for people doing this daily.

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@Abysswalker.5319 said:

@"Snipoukos.4912" said:Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

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@Snipoukos.4912 said:

@Snipoukos.4912 said:Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

What you're saying is practically is impossible to go in long run. Not all 5 people can be online at same time and everyday like static raids, someone may have other things to take care of in real life or other things to do. If someone is missing you have to fill up that spot from pug which where it leads us faking kp again, find people who has legit/real experience for that content and weed out people who hasn't that experience yet so you need those gearchecks etc.

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@Krasus.7456 said:

@Snipoukos.4912 said:Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

What you're saying is practically is impossible to go in long run. Not all 5 people can be online at same time and everyday like static raids, someone may have other things to take care of in real life or other things to do. If someone is missing you have to fill up that spot from pug which where it leads us faking kp again, find people who has legit/real experience for that content and weed out people who hasn't that experience yet so you need those gearchecks etc.

You clearly lack the ability to read. I said adding to friends and nicknaming them is the same thing as blocking them and nicknaming them in order to "mark them" without losing the ability to chat with them if you want. This way you can still avoid them in your pug runs.

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The core of the issue remains as always:Different skilled/able players getting thrown together when this is not the goal of the group or desired.

It doesn't matter where a player stands in this situation experience wise. There are unskilled know-it-alls who overestimate their ability and performance wildly (very common in players who have managed the transition into challenging content, but actually lack the performance of top end players). There are very high skilled players who just want a smooth and fast run. There are more relaxed players who care less about speed but rather a clean run. There are completely new players who are willing to learn, but lack the chance to do so. Etc.

The current LFG system does not allow for an appropriate way to distinguish between all of these players. This is compounding on top of the already massive lack in regard to class composition and role desires of groups in the LFG system, for which already players have to find work around solutions (most often via abbreviations). The old KP approach used by players was a band-aid fix via content clear amount to approximate a players ability to adapt to specific groups, while at the same time giving a certain guidance as to which level of play the group is aiming for (0-50 KP beginner, 50-100 KP experienced but still likely with HFB, 200 KP know mechanics by heart with still a HFB, 300 KP PUG speedrun with likely no HFB). This is no longer available and as such the actual problems just increased, compounded again by the current split between old and new KP, which resulted in the necessity of using a 3rd party site.

Until the developers understand and address the core of the issue, this problem will not go away and simply shift from one iteration and player made solution to another, with varying degrees of toxicity to accompany these "solution", directly linked to how good the player made solutions can manage the group creations necessities (grouping similar skilled players, grouping roles, communication of the groups wishes past the content to be run). As is right now, killproof.me is a step back to pinging KP because while it allows a better overview of total KP, it does not allow for distinction in group play style. In accordance with this step back, toxicity has increased.

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@"Cyninja.2954" said:The core of the issue remains as always:Different skilled/able players getting thrown together when this is not the goal of the group or desired.

It doesn't matter where a player stands in this situation experience wise. There are unskilled know-it-alls who overestimate their ability and performance wildly (very common in players who have managed the transition into challenging content, but actually lack the performance of top end players). There are very high skilled players who just want a smooth and fast run. There are more relaxed players who care less about speed but rather a clean run. There are completely new players who are willing to learn, but lack the chance to do so. Etc.

The current LFG system does not allow for an appropriate way to distinguish between all of these players. This is compounding on top of the already massive lack in regard to class composition and role desires of groups in the LFG system, for which already players have to find work around solutions (most often via abbreviations). The old KP approach used by players was a band-aid fix via content clear amount to approximate a players ability to adapt to specific groups, while at the same time giving a certain guidance as to which level of play the group is aiming for (0-50 KP beginner, 50-100 KP experienced but still likely with HFB, 200 KP know mechanics by heart with still a HFB, 300 KP PUG speedrun with likely no HFB). This is no longer available and as such the actual problems just increased, compounded again by the current split between old and new KP, which resulted in the necessity of using a 3rd party site.

Until the developers understand and address the core of the issue, this problem will not go away and simply shift from one iteration and player made solution to another, with varying degrees of toxicity to accompany these "solution", directly linked to how good the player made solutions can manage the group creations necessities (grouping similar skilled players, grouping roles, communication of the groups wishes past the content to be run). As is right now, killproof.me is a step back to pinging KP because while it allows a better overview of total KP, it does not allow for distinction in group play style. In accordance with this step back, toxicity has increased.

There is no way for any developer to be able to create a lfg that distinguishes a players skill level or desires. That is what the title in your lfg is for. Chill run or looking for certain things. Groups aren't just thrown together. Players don't read or join things they shouldn't. How does a dev fix that? Different skilled players aren't just thrown together. Alot of games they are with a que and you just get 5 players of varying skill that match predefined roles. You can't do that in gw2.Pinging proved nothing when you can pass content being carried fake pinging or even now buy a title run to qualify for content.No one can fix some player fake pinging something and hoping for carry. I still don't get how you can say this change created more toxic behavior when it's exactly the same.Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.

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@Snipoukos.4912 said:

@Snipoukos.4912 said:Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

What you're saying is practically is impossible to go in long run. Not all 5 people can be online at same time and everyday like static raids, someone may have other things to take care of in real life or other things to do. If someone is missing you have to fill up that spot from pug which where it leads us faking kp again, find people who has legit/real experience for that content and weed out people who hasn't that experience yet so you need those gearchecks etc.

You clearly lack the ability to read. I said adding to friends and nicknaming them is the same thing as blocking them and nicknaming them in order to "mark them" without losing the ability to chat with them if you want. This way you can still avoid them in your pug runs.

It isn't about me lacking reading ability, you're expecting to us get what yours in mind without writing it, we're not psychics here, if you wanna say something, be specific and clear. Did you ever mention about "blocking" underperform/fake kpers in your last comment ?? Cuz I don't see that at all. You literally said, add people you liked to run and run with them daily.

In addition, you're expecting us to actively weed out fake KPers every day with our full power instead of game developers provide us to check it directly from in-game easily. There should be system I simply click his name in party frame and check his total kill count to determine should I enter run with that guy or not. Not everyone is in their top condition all the time, we're humans after all, we can be tired and underperform than usual. That doesn't mean we're faking it or slacking.

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@Jilora.9524 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:The core of the issue remains as always:
Different skilled/able players getting thrown together when this is not the goal of the group or desired.

It doesn't matter where a player stands in this situation experience wise. There are unskilled know-it-alls who overestimate their ability and performance wildly (very common in players who have managed the transition into challenging content, but actually lack the performance of top end players). There are very high skilled players who just want a smooth and fast run. There are more relaxed players who care less about speed but rather a clean run. There are completely new players who are willing to learn, but lack the chance to do so. Etc.

The current LFG system does not allow for an appropriate way to distinguish between all of these players. This is compounding on top of the already massive lack in regard to class composition and role desires of groups in the LFG system, for which already players have to find work around solutions (most often via abbreviations). The old KP approach used by players was a band-aid fix via content clear amount to approximate a players ability to adapt to specific groups, while at the same time giving a certain guidance as to which level of play the group is aiming for (
0-50
KP beginner,
50-100 KP
experienced but still likely with HFB,
200 KP
know mechanics by heart with still a HFB,
300 KP
PUG speedrun with likely no HFB). This is no longer available and as such the actual problems just increased, compounded again by the current split between old and new KP, which resulted in the necessity of using a 3rd party site.

Until the developers understand and address the core of the issue, this problem will not go away and simply shift from one iteration and player made solution to another, with varying degrees of toxicity to accompany these "solution", directly linked to how good the player made solutions can manage the group creations necessities (grouping similar skilled players, grouping roles, communication of the groups wishes past the content to be run). As is right now, killproof.me is a step back to pinging KP because while it allows a better overview of total KP, it does not allow for distinction in group play style. In accordance with this step back, toxicity has increased.

There is no way for any developer to be able to create a lfg that distinguishes a players skill level or desires. That is what the title in your lfg is for. Chill run or looking for certain things. Groups aren't just thrown together. Players don't read or join things they shouldn't. How does a dev fix that? Different skilled players aren't just thrown together. Alot of games they are with a que and you just get 5 players of varying skill that match predefined roles. You can't do that in gw2.

True mostly for skill level, though there are methods to let players judge another players experience in a better way.

Untrue for desire. A more comprehensive LFG system would allow for better communication of what the group is looking for. The fact that some players are unable to read is a different issue.

First we would need to be able to actually create searches via a more comprehensive tool, then we can worry about players not reading what is in the group description. Which in its self is very limited text wise.

Second, to claim that the bare minimum of a small text box is the best there can be is ludicrous. Other MMOs manage just fine in having better LFG systems, for example by letting players dictate which class/classes they are looking for. So I fail to see how this area has no room for improvement. Having even the ability to limit a missing spot to classes which can provide a specific boon would already go a long way in weeding out players who are not appropriate for the group as example.

@Jilora.9524 said:Pinging proved nothing when you can pass content being carried fake pinging or even now buy a title run to qualify for content.

Untrue.

I keep hearing this as an argument, and it simply is not true or at best for fringe cases. The amount of runs you would have to buy in order to be set in KP is so high, that only very few players would be able or willing to do so.

That said, small FYI: most sell guilds have lists of accounts whom they have sold to. Players talk and exchange information. Especially in raids, you will find yourself across multiple block lists very fast if you continually fake KP or pretend to have acquired KP which you bought. In fractals, where buying high amounts of KP is rarer, block lists do the trick.

@Jilora.9524 said:No one can fix some player fake pinging something and hoping for carry. I still don't get how you can say this change created more toxic behavior when it's exactly the same.Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.

On the one hand you argue that nothing has changed, only to then question your own argument. Obviously things have gotten muddier and more problematic when creating groups. That is unrelated to players faking KP, which was present before already. It is simply a bigger issue now because as mentioned by TC, now players with low KP and likely experience have it far harder to find similar minded/skilled groups.

Again, if the system was not working, it would not have survived this long. The fact that some form of KP or experience estimating pre-sorting still takes place is a clear proof that players feel as though it is working and beneficial to them.

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@Abysswalker.5319 said:

@"Snipoukos.4912" said:Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

They can always force people to guilds , in order to get increased rewards + increased difficulty .Those people joining the guilds , have to worry about KP-dps meter-gear-rotations when the sign in and get seperated in each ''division''(skilled-medium-low) inside the guild .Or playing with the same people (the latest 30 people , who que up together for that specific Intance(add them as friend)) every week , increase the rewards .

While you can't edit the LFG box description

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@"Jilora.9524" said:Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.

First of all, "find a static" is just a ridiculous solution when we are talking about LFG pug runs. Fractal runs are daily and most people can't have the luxury of being available every day at the same time.

And yes, the whole point of this post is that more people are faking and will keep faking because they have no other solution. If this thing keeps on going, people that had 50KP when patch hit, they will have 250 at some point with no way to prove it to join LFG groups that ask for 250KP. And since they will feel like their level is higher than 50, they will feel the only solution is to fake.

Not even killproof.me is a good solution since you can get abyssal infusion drop from 100 normal mode and will still count as 1680 KP. Or you can literally just do nightmare and eventually get there. What we need is an in game killproof system.

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@Abysswalker.5319 said:

@"Jilora.9524" said:Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.

First of all, "find a static" is just a ridiculous solution when we are talking about LFG pug runs. Fractal runs are daily and most people can't have the luxury of being available every day at the same time.

And yes, the whole point of this post is that more people are faking and will keep faking because they have no other solution. If this thing keeps on going, people that had 50KP when patch hit, they will have 250 at some point with no way to prove it to join LFG groups that ask for 250KP. And since they will feel like their level is higher than 50, they will feel the only solution is to fake.

Not even killproof.me is a good solution since you can get abyssal infusion drop from 100 normal mode and will still count as 1680 KP. Or you can literally just do nightmare and eventually get there. What we need is an in game killproof system.

Join one or don't. It's a solution if you somehow run into this issue all the time. How many runs have you done and how many times did this happen or do you just ss the 1st time it happened. Again fake kp don't matter if he is skilled because you won't notice. And yes again that's the issue for any new skilled player is he can't crack there barriers at all so he has to fake. The guy who fakes and isn't good is the issue. Weed them out via block/friend and lable them. And here you go adding stuff but if this guy beats the content and gets a drop he has more kp then his skill level. Do you hear yourself? What exactly do you want. A little counter on my character with 98 99 100 cm and how many times I beat it so I can maybe join your group.What's your issue. Some bad player snuck in and you noticed and kicked him. Sounds like you fixed it

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The easiest fix right now is run hardest to easiest to expose them. Learn players who are good and bad. Stack the braindead classes that are forgiving af that carry some lesser skilled players who then lock out others with these reqs. Be specific in your lfg and wait an extra 25m to finish stuff 15 min quicker

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@Krasus.7456 said:

@Snipoukos.4912 said:Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

What you're saying is practically is impossible to go in long run. Not all 5 people can be online at same time and everyday like static raids, someone may have other things to take care of in real life or other things to do. If someone is missing you have to fill up that spot from pug which where it leads us faking kp again, find people who has legit/real experience for that content and weed out people who hasn't that experience yet so you need those gearchecks etc.

You clearly lack the ability to read. I said adding to friends and nicknaming them is the same thing as blocking them and nicknaming them in order to "mark them" without losing the ability to chat with them if you want. This way you can still avoid them in your pug runs.

It isn't about me lacking reading ability, you're expecting to us get what yours in mind without writing it, we're not psychics here, if you wanna say something, be specific and clear. Did you ever mention about "blocking" underperform/fake kpers in your last comment ?? Cuz I don't see that at all. You literally said, add people you liked to run and run with them daily.

His message was pretty clear imo : he quoted you talking about "blocking" and "communication" issue, and gives you an option available IG to keep track of these players (underperforming/fakers) without blocking them...He never talked about "people you liked to run" with...

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running CM+T4 lately with DWD only and I have been completing it fairly reasonable way. 1 or 2 wipe on 100 sometime but mostly smooth enough. But, I did run into problem yesterday while 1 person didn't have dod or DwD. We kept wiping on 100 then they started to tell me that i am not healing enough. I just left coz I knew not to argue and made another party with DWD and cleared it easily.again, want speed clear = staticwant to learn = make ur lfg or static.want to just just do CMs+T4 = DwD.It works.

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at first, nothing changed. kp is kp. If some one change then is very ok, this is additional filter dismiss players who fail in logic as my vision.if someone can fake kp, but show true dps, don't die - I is not problem for me. So this is not problem.if dps class have ver very low dps and fail - it is kick, without any toxicity, no matter have kp or not. added to blocklist for future also, so this is not problem tooif people low-mind compared wiht common, no matter have kp or not - this is may eb not kick, may be kick, but anyway I not see more that - it will be already on my blocklist.about heal, and wihtout heal. not problem join and ask about team setup, -not like - go find another party. And if someone have communicate problem - it not my problem.

yes, we can't click at player and inspect achievement, some boss kill count, and others .. at first look it is smell fail, but we have api-keys, so kp.me is valid legal way to dp check. I use it, it ok.

Also exist some discord pve gulds-comminities, on then discord bot ask your api key, and lfg exist on text channels whit insta kp check.And many many others ways to keep party members valid by skill value.

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@Jilora.9524 said:Join one or don't. It's a solution if you somehow run into this issue all the time. How many runs have you done and how many times did this happen or do you just ss the 1st time it happened. Again fake kp don't matter if he is skilled because you won't notice. And yes again that's the issue for any new skilled player is he can't crack there barriers at all so he has to fake. The guy who fakes and isn't good is the issue. Weed them out via block/friend and lable them. And here you go adding stuff but if this guy beats the content and gets a drop he has more kp then his skill level. Do you hear yourself? What exactly do you want. A little counter on my character with 98 99 100 cm and how many times I beat it so I can maybe join your group.What's your issue. Some bad player snuck in and you noticed and kicked him. Sounds like you fixed itFirst of all, if you read my post you'd know I have multiple stacks of old KP which means I didnt just do this once and posted it. And what you fail to understand is that we are talking about 250+ groups, not noob friendly CMs.

When you want to run without a healer (which is almost always the case with 250+ groups) and someone is faking KP you can tell but that is precisely what creates toxicity! Maybe the guy just had a bad first encounter. I won't accuse him of faking KP just cz he made a mistake. So you keep going and try again, then people question it and then there is always a fight which leads to people leaving or someone getting kicked. You say kicking the person that fakes is a solution. That is NOT a solution! By kicking someone you need to find a replacement which is very difficult if it's not a full run. Then you lower your standards, or people get tired from arguing and LFG downtime and leave... It's a s**t show.

And you know when you have to kick someone there is always going to be toxicity especially from the person being kicked. So telling me kicking someone is the solution makes me question your ability to read since my problem is not that I can't clear CMs, is that I have to deal with toxicity to do it.

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@Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:running CM+T4 lately with DWD only and I have been completing it fairly reasonable way. 1 or 2 wipe on 100 sometime but mostly smooth enough. But, I did run into problem yesterday while 1 person didn't have dod or DwD. We kept wiping on 100 then they started to tell me that i am not healing enough. I just left coz I knew not to argue and made another party with DWD and cleared it easily.again, want speed clear = staticwant to learn = make ur lfg or static.want to just just do CMs+T4 = DwD.It works.

Titles will never be a valid killproof because you can buy them. And cheaply. But what you are talking about is entry level CMs. My post is about 250+ groups that usually run without a healer.

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