How the new Fractal CM KP(Killproof) system promotes toxicity. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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How the new Fractal CM KP(Killproof) system promotes toxicity.

Hello,

I am a veteran fractal player and have been doing CMs daily for almost 2 years now. I join 250KP+ groups since those are the people I feel more comfortable playing with.

I know GW2 is against Killproofs, gear checking, DPS meter etc but I really tried taking people without KP in CMs and even if I spent 10 hours helping them, they wouldn't be able to get the kill. So you understand, when you have daily CMs, you can't expect people to spend countless hours with new players. Most of the times, they have limited time and want to get the kill with people that have similar experience. This is how I enjoy the game. So now with the new system that doesn't allow players to show pingable KP, only 2 groups of people do CMs. Veterans like me, and people faking their KP through chat code manipulation. This massively increases toxicity since people have expectations that are not met when people fake KP.

Here is 1 example that happened today. The performance of some people was far below average which made me check killproof.me to see if they actually have the 250 old KP we asked, or faking it. Upon doing so, I found that they were indeed faking it and then called them out on it. And you can see in screenshots what happened. They were being offensive, blocked me, and tried to kick me from group. I included all relevant screenshots (didn't hide a part where I acted poorly for example).

This is a problem that will keep happening and will keep getting worse as more people get experience but no killproof. I understand that Anet doesn't want to promote Elitism and toxicity but their efforts had the opposite effect. You can't have challenging content without requirements. DPS meter, Gear check and legitimate way to show killproof is what the game needs. It won't affect the average GW2 player and it will really help people that like challenging content, enjoy it more. No one likes kicking people from their group but that is what the game is forcing us to do. That's why we need those features.

Thank you.

Screenshots: (I cropped the names to keep their privacy)
https://imgur.com/a/cvt8v2m

Edit: After playing for a few days after the post, blocking seems to be the only thing you can do now but I block at least 3-5 people daily before i get a decent group. I am not even talking to anyone other than pinging my KP. People just act like trash to each other. Personally i think the KP system now it's completely destroyed and will only keep getting worse. Now I just make my group requirement "Fractal God+DwD". Takes longer but your chances are better. When you think anet can't make something worse, they always surprise you. Sigh...

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Comments

  • @Jilora.9524 said:
    Nothing changed about faking. You could before. You can now. You just can't actually earn anything to ping now so any new good player on your skill level can never ping anything or earn anything to ping and thus eliminated from joining many groups. Now sure this guy scammed you but he could've done the same thing 5 months ago. The system hasn't become more toxic it already was they just made it harder to check and impossible to earn the old stuff to join current groups. So if someone is underperforming it is up to you to notice remove replace or carry.

    The problem is that before, a person could join low KP groups and start earning enough KP to join 250+. Now their only option is to fake it or not play. If you are gonna fake, might as well do it at 250 right? Not to mention how people that legitimate have 50 for example, need to fake as well since their skill has improved but not their KP.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    Nothing changed about faking. You could before. You can now. You just can't actually earn anything to ping now so any new good player on your skill level can never ping anything or earn anything to ping and thus eliminated from joining many groups. Now sure this guy scammed you but he could've done the same thing 5 months ago. The system hasn't become more toxic it already was they just made it harder to check and impossible to earn the old stuff to join current groups. So if someone is underperforming it is up to you to notice remove replace or carry.

    The problem is that before, a person could join low KP groups and start earning enough KP to join 250+. Now their only option is to fake it or not play. If you are gonna fake, might as well do it at 250 right? Not to mention how people that legitimate have 50 for example, need to fake as well since their skill has improved but not their KP.

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    Nothing changed about faking. You could before. You can now. You just can't actually earn anything to ping now so any new good player on your skill level can never ping anything or earn anything to ping and thus eliminated from joining many groups. Now sure this guy scammed you but he could've done the same thing 5 months ago. The system hasn't become more toxic it already was they just made it harder to check and impossible to earn the old stuff to join current groups. So if someone is underperforming it is up to you to notice remove replace or carry.

    The problem is that before, a person could join low KP groups and start earning enough KP to join 250+. Now their only option is to fake it or not play. If you are gonna fake, might as well do it at 250 right? Not to mention how people that legitimate have 50 for example, need to fake as well since their skill has improved but not their KP.

    Yeah but it's only toxic if the person who now has to fake it fakes above his/her skill level. You are never going to check the dude or find out some dude has faked if he performs well. I don't get if you think a dude faking it is toxic then requiring stuff we can't earn isn't. They both are. I get why. You want to finish fast. You don't want to waste time but in doing so some players that are as good as you or better will never be able to join your reqs because they can't earn anything. That's the problem not that some scrub snuck into your group. Both behaviors are toxic. His by wasting everyone's time and yours be excluding w/o playing with someone first to see. Again I get it. Do what you have to do to make your experience better.
    My question tho.
    In this fractal run were you wiping? Was it a kitten show? Because if it was and you were then you are totally justified to call out and remove. But if you were beating the content and you just noticed you had to work a little harder and just called this guy out because he was underperforming in content you were beating anyway then your the toxic one.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.
    I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.
    If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.
    I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.
    Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

  • @Snipoukos.4912 said:
    Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.
    I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.
    If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.
    I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.
    Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

    Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

  • Krasus.7456Krasus.7456 Member
    edited October 24, 2020

    To be honest, KP system has its flaws but at least it shows how many times you killed that boss. It breeds much more relaxed gameplay experience for people who does it regularly. If someone is faking his kp, that needs to be called out then taking care of.

    I can understand having less kp but at least keep it up group's performance in general. That is acceptable in my terms. Basically while faking your kp, you disrespect people who is asking for similar experience to finish this dailies.

    Like one of hardcore MMOs's WoW, you can literally check, that player's gear, traits/talents, how many times that person killed that boss and its dates. It also have several dps meter programs which approved and used by almost all raider players. That's how you weed out experienced player and someone who is learning/getting into that content. If you make people blind, it starts suspicions, suspicisions start accusations and it breeds more toxicity which ArenaNet is trying to prevent.
    It isn't shameful there are different skill-based groups and you belong below or medium but not high one. You slowly work your way to the higher tier of skill groups.
    There is huge difference between kill each boss in 1-2 mins, 5 mins and 15 mins in timewise if you run this show for long time.

    ArenaNet should improve this KP system make it easily accessable like checking armory of people for gearchecks. Spending more than few hours in fractal isn't really convenint for people doing this daily.

  • @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:
    Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.
    I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.
    If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.
    I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.
    Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

    Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

    You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

  • Krasus.7456Krasus.7456 Member
    edited October 24, 2020

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:
    Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.
    I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.
    If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.
    I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.
    Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

    Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

    You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

    What you're saying is practically is impossible to go in long run. Not all 5 people can be online at same time and everyday like static raids, someone may have other things to take care of in real life or other things to do. If someone is missing you have to fill up that spot from pug which where it leads us faking kp again, find people who has legit/real experience for that content and weed out people who hasn't that experience yet so you need those gearchecks etc.

  • @Krasus.7456 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:
    Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.
    I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.
    If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.
    I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.
    Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

    Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

    You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

    What you're saying is practically is impossible to go in long run. Not all 5 people can be online at same time and everyday like static raids, someone may have other things to take care of in real life or other things to do. If someone is missing you have to fill up that spot from pug which where it leads us faking kp again, find people who has legit/real experience for that content and weed out people who hasn't that experience yet so you need those gearchecks etc.

    You clearly lack the ability to read. I said adding to friends and nicknaming them is the same thing as blocking them and nicknaming them in order to "mark them" without losing the ability to chat with them if you want. This way you can still avoid them in your pug runs.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020

    The core of the issue remains as always:
    Different skilled/able players getting thrown together when this is not the goal of the group or desired.

    It doesn't matter where a player stands in this situation experience wise. There are unskilled know-it-alls who overestimate their ability and performance wildly (very common in players who have managed the transition into challenging content, but actually lack the performance of top end players). There are very high skilled players who just want a smooth and fast run. There are more relaxed players who care less about speed but rather a clean run. There are completely new players who are willing to learn, but lack the chance to do so. Etc.

    The current LFG system does not allow for an appropriate way to distinguish between all of these players. This is compounding on top of the already massive lack in regard to class composition and role desires of groups in the LFG system, for which already players have to find work around solutions (most often via abbreviations). The old KP approach used by players was a band-aid fix via content clear amount to approximate a players ability to adapt to specific groups, while at the same time giving a certain guidance as to which level of play the group is aiming for (0-50 KP beginner, 50-100 KP experienced but still likely with HFB, 200 KP know mechanics by heart with still a HFB, 300 KP PUG speedrun with likely no HFB). This is no longer available and as such the actual problems just increased, compounded again by the current split between old and new KP, which resulted in the necessity of using a 3rd party site.

    Until the developers understand and address the core of the issue, this problem will not go away and simply shift from one iteration and player made solution to another, with varying degrees of toxicity to accompany these "solution", directly linked to how good the player made solutions can manage the group creations necessities (grouping similar skilled players, grouping roles, communication of the groups wishes past the content to be run). As is right now, killproof.me is a step back to pinging KP because while it allows a better overview of total KP, it does not allow for distinction in group play style. In accordance with this step back, toxicity has increased.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The core of the issue remains as always:
    Different skilled/able players getting thrown together when this is not the goal of the group or desired.

    It doesn't matter where a player stands in this situation experience wise. There are unskilled know-it-alls who overestimate their ability and performance wildly (very common in players who have managed the transition into challenging content, but actually lack the performance of top end players). There are very high skilled players who just want a smooth and fast run. There are more relaxed players who care less about speed but rather a clean run. There are completely new players who are willing to learn, but lack the chance to do so. Etc.

    The current LFG system does not allow for an appropriate way to distinguish between all of these players. This is compounding on top of the already massive lack in regard to class composition and role desires of groups in the LFG system, for which already players have to find work around solutions (most often via abbreviations). The old KP approach used by players was a band-aid fix via content clear amount to approximate a players ability to adapt to specific groups, while at the same time giving a certain guidance as to which level of play the group is aiming for (0-50 KP beginner, 50-100 KP experienced but still likely with HFB, 200 KP know mechanics by heart with still a HFB, 300 KP PUG speedrun with likely no HFB). This is no longer available and as such the actual problems just increased, compounded again by the current split between old and new KP, which resulted in the necessity of using a 3rd party site.

    Until the developers understand and address the core of the issue, this problem will not go away and simply shift from one iteration and player made solution to another, with varying degrees of toxicity to accompany these "solution", directly linked to how good the player made solutions can manage the group creations necessities (grouping similar skilled players, grouping roles, communication of the groups wishes past the content to be run). As is right now, killproof.me is a step back to pinging KP because while it allows a better overview of total KP, it does not allow for distinction in group play style. In accordance with this step back, toxicity has increased.

    There is no way for any developer to be able to create a lfg that distinguishes a players skill level or desires. That is what the title in your lfg is for. Chill run or looking for certain things. Groups aren't just thrown together. Players don't read or join things they shouldn't. How does a dev fix that? Different skilled players aren't just thrown together. Alot of games they are with a que and you just get 5 players of varying skill that match predefined roles. You can't do that in gw2.
    Pinging proved nothing when you can pass content being carried fake pinging or even now buy a title run to qualify for content.
    No one can fix some player fake pinging something and hoping for carry. I still don't get how you can say this change created more toxic behavior when it's exactly the same.
    Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Krasus.7456Krasus.7456 Member
    edited October 24, 2020

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:

    @Krasus.7456 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:
    Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.
    I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.
    If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.
    I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.
    Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

    Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

    You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

    What you're saying is practically is impossible to go in long run. Not all 5 people can be online at same time and everyday like static raids, someone may have other things to take care of in real life or other things to do. If someone is missing you have to fill up that spot from pug which where it leads us faking kp again, find people who has legit/real experience for that content and weed out people who hasn't that experience yet so you need those gearchecks etc.

    You clearly lack the ability to read. I said adding to friends and nicknaming them is the same thing as blocking them and nicknaming them in order to "mark them" without losing the ability to chat with them if you want. This way you can still avoid them in your pug runs.

    It isn't about me lacking reading ability, you're expecting to us get what yours in mind without writing it, we're not psychics here, if you wanna say something, be specific and clear. Did you ever mention about "blocking" underperform/fake kpers in your last comment ?? Cuz I don't see that at all. You literally said, add people you liked to run and run with them daily.

    In addition, you're expecting us to actively weed out fake KPers every day with our full power instead of game developers provide us to check it directly from in-game easily. There should be system I simply click his name in party frame and check his total kill count to determine should I enter run with that guy or not. Not everyone is in their top condition all the time, we're humans after all, we can be tired and underperform than usual. That doesn't mean we're faking it or slacking.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020

    @Jilora.9524 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The core of the issue remains as always:
    Different skilled/able players getting thrown together when this is not the goal of the group or desired.

    It doesn't matter where a player stands in this situation experience wise. There are unskilled know-it-alls who overestimate their ability and performance wildly (very common in players who have managed the transition into challenging content, but actually lack the performance of top end players). There are very high skilled players who just want a smooth and fast run. There are more relaxed players who care less about speed but rather a clean run. There are completely new players who are willing to learn, but lack the chance to do so. Etc.

    The current LFG system does not allow for an appropriate way to distinguish between all of these players. This is compounding on top of the already massive lack in regard to class composition and role desires of groups in the LFG system, for which already players have to find work around solutions (most often via abbreviations). The old KP approach used by players was a band-aid fix via content clear amount to approximate a players ability to adapt to specific groups, while at the same time giving a certain guidance as to which level of play the group is aiming for (0-50 KP beginner, 50-100 KP experienced but still likely with HFB, 200 KP know mechanics by heart with still a HFB, 300 KP PUG speedrun with likely no HFB). This is no longer available and as such the actual problems just increased, compounded again by the current split between old and new KP, which resulted in the necessity of using a 3rd party site.

    Until the developers understand and address the core of the issue, this problem will not go away and simply shift from one iteration and player made solution to another, with varying degrees of toxicity to accompany these "solution", directly linked to how good the player made solutions can manage the group creations necessities (grouping similar skilled players, grouping roles, communication of the groups wishes past the content to be run). As is right now, killproof.me is a step back to pinging KP because while it allows a better overview of total KP, it does not allow for distinction in group play style. In accordance with this step back, toxicity has increased.

    There is no way for any developer to be able to create a lfg that distinguishes a players skill level or desires. That is what the title in your lfg is for. Chill run or looking for certain things. Groups aren't just thrown together. Players don't read or join things they shouldn't. How does a dev fix that? Different skilled players aren't just thrown together. Alot of games they are with a que and you just get 5 players of varying skill that match predefined roles. You can't do that in gw2.

    True mostly for skill level, though there are methods to let players judge another players experience in a better way.

    Untrue for desire. A more comprehensive LFG system would allow for better communication of what the group is looking for. The fact that some players are unable to read is a different issue.

    First we would need to be able to actually create searches via a more comprehensive tool, then we can worry about players not reading what is in the group description. Which in its self is very limited text wise.

    Second, to claim that the bare minimum of a small text box is the best there can be is ludicrous. Other MMOs manage just fine in having better LFG systems, for example by letting players dictate which class/classes they are looking for. So I fail to see how this area has no room for improvement. Having even the ability to limit a missing spot to classes which can provide a specific boon would already go a long way in weeding out players who are not appropriate for the group as example.

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    Pinging proved nothing when you can pass content being carried fake pinging or even now buy a title run to qualify for content.

    Untrue.

    I keep hearing this as an argument, and it simply is not true or at best for fringe cases. The amount of runs you would have to buy in order to be set in KP is so high, that only very few players would be able or willing to do so.

    That said, small FYI: most sell guilds have lists of accounts whom they have sold to. Players talk and exchange information. Especially in raids, you will find yourself across multiple block lists very fast if you continually fake KP or pretend to have acquired KP which you bought. In fractals, where buying high amounts of KP is rarer, block lists do the trick.

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    No one can fix some player fake pinging something and hoping for carry. I still don't get how you can say this change created more toxic behavior when it's exactly the same.
    Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.

    On the one hand you argue that nothing has changed, only to then question your own argument. Obviously things have gotten muddier and more problematic when creating groups. That is unrelated to players faking KP, which was present before already. It is simply a bigger issue now because as mentioned by TC, now players with low KP and likely experience have it far harder to find similar minded/skilled groups.

    Again, if the system was not working, it would not have survived this long. The fact that some form of KP or experience estimating pre-sorting still takes place is a clear proof that players feel as though it is working and beneficial to them.

  • Luci.7018Luci.7018 Member ✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:
    Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.
    I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.
    If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.
    I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.
    Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

    Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

    They can always force people to guilds , in order to get increased rewards + increased difficulty .
    Those people joining the guilds , have to worry about KP-dps meter-gear-rotations when the sign in and get seperated in each ''division''(skilled-medium-low) inside the guild .
    Or playing with the same people (the latest 30 people , who que up together for that specific Intance(add them as friend)) every week , increase the rewards .

    While you can't edit the LFG box description

  • @Jilora.9524 said:
    Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.

    First of all, "find a static" is just a ridiculous solution when we are talking about LFG pug runs. Fractal runs are daily and most people can't have the luxury of being available every day at the same time.

    And yes, the whole point of this post is that more people are faking and will keep faking because they have no other solution. If this thing keeps on going, people that had 50KP when patch hit, they will have 250 at some point with no way to prove it to join LFG groups that ask for 250KP. And since they will feel like their level is higher than 50, they will feel the only solution is to fake.

    Not even killproof.me is a good solution since you can get abyssal infusion drop from 100 normal mode and will still count as 1680 KP. Or you can literally just do nightmare and eventually get there. What we need is an in game killproof system.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    Are there dozens more fake pinging? Are t4 and cms pug groups wiping all the time because of this where before the change absolutely nobody fake pinged? If so find a static if you think you are so great so you can avoid them. Nothings changed except you can't earn stuff to ping and if those players had nothing to ping to get into your group before it's exactly the same.

    First of all, "find a static" is just a ridiculous solution when we are talking about LFG pug runs. Fractal runs are daily and most people can't have the luxury of being available every day at the same time.

    And yes, the whole point of this post is that more people are faking and will keep faking because they have no other solution. If this thing keeps on going, people that had 50KP when patch hit, they will have 250 at some point with no way to prove it to join LFG groups that ask for 250KP. And since they will feel like their level is higher than 50, they will feel the only solution is to fake.

    Not even killproof.me is a good solution since you can get abyssal infusion drop from 100 normal mode and will still count as 1680 KP. Or you can literally just do nightmare and eventually get there. What we need is an in game killproof system.

    Join one or don't. It's a solution if you somehow run into this issue all the time. How many runs have you done and how many times did this happen or do you just ss the 1st time it happened. Again fake kp don't matter if he is skilled because you won't notice. And yes again that's the issue for any new skilled player is he can't crack there barriers at all so he has to fake. The guy who fakes and isn't good is the issue. Weed them out via block/friend and lable them. And here you go adding stuff but if this guy beats the content and gets a drop he has more kp then his skill level. Do you hear yourself? What exactly do you want. A little counter on my character with 98 99 100 cm and how many times I beat it so I can maybe join your group.
    What's your issue. Some bad player snuck in and you noticed and kicked him. Sounds like you fixed it

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020

    The easiest fix right now is run hardest to easiest to expose them. Learn players who are good and bad. Stack the braindead classes that are forgiving af that carry some lesser skilled players who then lock out others with these reqs. Be specific in your lfg and wait an extra 25m to finish stuff 15 min quicker

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • @Krasus.7456 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:

    @Krasus.7456 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Snipoukos.4912 said:
    Now that you cant ping kps the only good way is killproof.me.
    I give everyone that links kps or killproof.me a chance and I let them stay for the full even if they are underperfoming but after the run is over I block and nickname them with the reason I blocked so I know for future pug runs.
    If someone is refusing to link killproof.me there is a high chance this person is faking their KPs via chat.
    I get it that Anet doesn't like the whole "Elitist" system of gear check / in game dps meters / reliable way of showing KPs but this is creating more toxicity than before.
    Also to clarify killproofs via LI/LD/decorations/old 100cm kps are pointless since they don't show how skilled you are rather than how many times you cleared the encounter it doens't matter if it was a clean fast kill or a 1hour fiesta with countless of wipes so the whole system is flawed but it's the best one we got.

    Exactly. That's what Anet should focus on fixing. Also a way to tag players you don't want to play with. If someone is underperforming I don't want to block them but I also don't want to have them as teammate again. Why do I have to cut all communication from a person that might be great in other aspects of the game?

    You can add them to friends and then nickname them it's the same thing.

    What you're saying is practically is impossible to go in long run. Not all 5 people can be online at same time and everyday like static raids, someone may have other things to take care of in real life or other things to do. If someone is missing you have to fill up that spot from pug which where it leads us faking kp again, find people who has legit/real experience for that content and weed out people who hasn't that experience yet so you need those gearchecks etc.

    You clearly lack the ability to read. I said adding to friends and nicknaming them is the same thing as blocking them and nicknaming them in order to "mark them" without losing the ability to chat with them if you want. This way you can still avoid them in your pug runs.

    It isn't about me lacking reading ability, you're expecting to us get what yours in mind without writing it, we're not psychics here, if you wanna say something, be specific and clear. Did you ever mention about "blocking" underperform/fake kpers in your last comment ?? Cuz I don't see that at all. You literally said, add people you liked to run and run with them daily.

    His message was pretty clear imo : he quoted you talking about "blocking" and "communication" issue, and gives you an option available IG to keep track of these players (underperforming/fakers) without blocking them...
    He never talked about "people you liked to run" with...

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • running CM+T4 lately with DWD only and I have been completing it fairly reasonable way. 1 or 2 wipe on 100 sometime but mostly smooth enough. But, I did run into problem yesterday while 1 person didn't have dod or DwD. We kept wiping on 100 then they started to tell me that i am not healing enough. I just left coz I knew not to argue and made another party with DWD and cleared it easily.
    again, want speed clear = static
    want to learn = make ur lfg or static.
    want to just just do CMs+T4 = DwD.
    It works.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    at first, nothing changed. kp is kp. If some one change then is very ok, this is additional filter dismiss players who fail in logic as my vision.
    if someone can fake kp, but show true dps, don't die - I is not problem for me. So this is not problem.
    if dps class have ver very low dps and fail - it is kick, without any toxicity, no matter have kp or not. added to blocklist for future also, so this is not problem too
    if people low-mind compared wiht common, no matter have kp or not - this is may eb not kick, may be kick, but anyway I not see more that - it will be already on my blocklist.
    about heal, and wihtout heal. not problem join and ask about team setup, -not like - go find another party. And if someone have communicate problem - it not my problem.

    yes, we can't click at player and inspect achievement, some boss kill count, and others .. at first look it is smell fail, but we have api-keys, so kp.me is valid legal way to dp check. I use it, it ok.

    Also exist some discord pve gulds-comminities, on then discord bot ask your api key, and lfg exist on text channels whit insta kp check.
    And many many others ways to keep party members valid by skill value.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • @Jilora.9524 said:
    Join one or don't. It's a solution if you somehow run into this issue all the time. How many runs have you done and how many times did this happen or do you just ss the 1st time it happened. Again fake kp don't matter if he is skilled because you won't notice. And yes again that's the issue for any new skilled player is he can't crack there barriers at all so he has to fake. The guy who fakes and isn't good is the issue. Weed them out via block/friend and lable them. And here you go adding stuff but if this guy beats the content and gets a drop he has more kp then his skill level. Do you hear yourself? What exactly do you want. A little counter on my character with 98 99 100 cm and how many times I beat it so I can maybe join your group.
    What's your issue. Some bad player snuck in and you noticed and kicked him. Sounds like you fixed it

    First of all, if you read my post you'd know I have multiple stacks of old KP which means I didnt just do this once and posted it. And what you fail to understand is that we are talking about 250+ groups, not noob friendly CMs.

    When you want to run without a healer (which is almost always the case with 250+ groups) and someone is faking KP you can tell but that is precisely what creates toxicity! Maybe the guy just had a bad first encounter. I won't accuse him of faking KP just cz he made a mistake. So you keep going and try again, then people question it and then there is always a fight which leads to people leaving or someone getting kicked. You say kicking the person that fakes is a solution. That is NOT a solution! By kicking someone you need to find a replacement which is very difficult if it's not a full run. Then you lower your standards, or people get tired from arguing and LFG downtime and leave... It's a s**t show.

    And you know when you have to kick someone there is always going to be toxicity especially from the person being kicked. So telling me kicking someone is the solution makes me question your ability to read since my problem is not that I can't clear CMs, is that I have to deal with toxicity to do it.

  • @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    running CM+T4 lately with DWD only and I have been completing it fairly reasonable way. 1 or 2 wipe on 100 sometime but mostly smooth enough. But, I did run into problem yesterday while 1 person didn't have dod or DwD. We kept wiping on 100 then they started to tell me that i am not healing enough. I just left coz I knew not to argue and made another party with DWD and cleared it easily.
    again, want speed clear = static
    want to learn = make ur lfg or static.
    want to just just do CMs+T4 = DwD.
    It works.

    Titles will never be a valid killproof because you can buy them. And cheaply. But what you are talking about is entry level CMs. My post is about 250+ groups that usually run without a healer.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    just ask for titles and not for KPs. cuz they cannot be faked

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    just ask for titles and not for KPs. cuz they cannot be faked

    but they can be bought.

  • Katary.7096Katary.7096 Member ✭✭✭

    Perhaps the fractals devs can take a page from the book of WvW achievement design? "Ultimate Dominator" is not awarded for a measly ten kills after all.

  • Yellow Rainbow.6142Yellow Rainbow.6142 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2020

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    running CM+T4 lately with DWD only and I have been completing it fairly reasonable way. 1 or 2 wipe on 100 sometime but mostly smooth enough. But, I did run into problem yesterday while 1 person didn't have dod or DwD. We kept wiping on 100 then they started to tell me that i am not healing enough. I just left coz I knew not to argue and made another party with DWD and cleared it easily.
    again, want speed clear = static
    want to learn = make ur lfg or static.
    want to just just do CMs+T4 = DwD.
    It works.

    Titles will never be a valid killproof because you can buy them. And cheaply. But what you are talking about is entry level CMs. My post is about 250+ groups that usually run without a healer.

    and u can buy account that has kills. nothing is 100%.
    So, if you read my post, want speed clear = go static.
    o btw, i have over 250+ but i still can't do without healer. so how does that work?
    May be, if lfg CMs+T4. no heal run, you may get the people you are looking for.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2020

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    Join one or don't. It's a solution if you somehow run into this issue all the time. How many runs have you done and how many times did this happen or do you just ss the 1st time it happened. Again fake kp don't matter if he is skilled because you won't notice. And yes again that's the issue for any new skilled player is he can't crack there barriers at all so he has to fake. The guy who fakes and isn't good is the issue. Weed them out via block/friend and lable them. And here you go adding stuff but if this guy beats the content and gets a drop he has more kp then his skill level. Do you hear yourself? What exactly do you want. A little counter on my character with 98 99 100 cm and how many times I beat it so I can maybe join your group.
    What's your issue. Some bad player snuck in and you noticed and kicked him. Sounds like you fixed it

    First of all, if you read my post you'd know I have multiple stacks of old KP which means I didnt just do this once and posted it. And what you fail to understand is that we are talking about 250+ groups, not noob friendly CMs.

    When you want to run without a healer (which is almost always the case with 250+ groups) and someone is faking KP you can tell but that is precisely what creates toxicity! Maybe the guy just had a bad first encounter. I won't accuse him of faking KP just cz he made a mistake. So you keep going and try again, then people question it and then there is always a fight which leads to people leaving or someone getting kicked. You say kicking the person that fakes is a solution. That is NOT a solution! By kicking someone you need to find a replacement which is very difficult if it's not a full run. Then you lower your standards, or people get tired from arguing and LFG downtime and leave... It's a s**t show.

    And you know when you have to kick someone there is always going to be toxicity especially from the person being kicked. So telling me kicking someone is the solution makes me question your ability to read since my problem is not that I can't clear CMs, is that I have to deal with toxicity to do it.

    I read your post. See now you accuse me of not being able to read makes me think you are the toxic one. Where am I saying noob groups? It rally don't matter but should be less of an issue for you. You don't answer anything either. So what 45 days since fractal released. How many times you have this issue? It would be like you said kitten quick to see someone unskilled faking it in a quick encounter. So run the hardest one first and bam exposed so now it remains a full run.

    Again. What do you want? Everything there is right now you counter with they can buy title they can get a drop for 1680 kp. I said the little counter thing. Is that what you want? I enter fracs and theres 100 cm on my forehead with a number 16 or 56 of how many clears we got. Or a number zero for the guy whos faking. Then what you kick him. Anet sure the hell isn't going to do that when then most likely don't like the huge amount of exclusion already or else why change it?
    I never said that the bad player faking isn't toxic. I said there isn't some huge increase in it esp in 250 plus. Like why would I as a bad player risk that group? He would try and blend in a litttle lower.
    Heres the thing bro. The solution is kick without saying a kitten word. You know who is the issue. Kick/block / no toxicity. Actually it's block nickname them kick. I think your issue is you want anet to remove all bad players because you are uncomfortable kicking someone. There is no way to filter out these fakers perfectly so use what everyone else does now like lare says it is incredible simple for him. You start accusing you run the risk of toxicity and then he trys to reverse kick you etc etc

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abysswalker.5319 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    Join one or don't. It's a solution if you somehow run into this issue all the time. How many runs have you done and how many times did this happen or do you just ss the 1st time it happened. Again fake kp don't matter if he is skilled because you won't notice. And yes again that's the issue for any new skilled player is he can't crack there barriers at all so he has to fake. The guy who fakes and isn't good is the issue. Weed them out via block/friend and lable them. And here you go adding stuff but if this guy beats the content and gets a drop he has more kp then his skill level. Do you hear yourself? What exactly do you want. A little counter on my character with 98 99 100 cm and how many times I beat it so I can maybe join your group.
    What's your issue. Some bad player snuck in and you noticed and kicked him. Sounds like you fixed it

    First of all, if you read my post you'd know I have multiple stacks of old KP which means I didnt just do this once and posted it.

    Wait is this the I can't read part? Because I said did you ss the first time it happened. Meaning is it the first time this toxicity happened not is this your first run. Oh and I'm the one who can't read.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    just ask for titles and not for KPs. cuz they cannot be faked

    but they can be bought.

    kps too :bleep_bloop:

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    just ask for titles and not for KPs. cuz they cannot be faked

    but they can be bought.

    kps too :bleep_bloop:

    How? since you cant get them anymore

  • The Problem is that people think that KPs are required to "sort out the bad players" and are kitten paranoid about fakes.
    And if you tell people youre using the KPs for what they were originally intended you get kicked instantly.
    "I used my KP for guildhall stuff or to buy infusions" gets you kicked out of a group really fast because people instantly assume that youre a noob and dont have any KP which in most cases isnt true.
    The problem is in the peoples heads, because they are so distrusting and are not using LFG the right way.
    People have a trust issue and problems to trust other people that they speak the truth.

    If you want a smoth run with "pros", try putting something like that on LFG
    "Fractals all CMs, fast run, be experienced or kick"

    And btw. theres a lot of good players out there who dont have the time to farm fractals daily but are still so good that they can easily do the CMs, but if they see the 250 KP requirement, they just think "kitten those elitists, im going with another group"

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blumpf.2518 said:
    The Problem is that people think that KPs are required to "sort out the bad players" and are kitten paranoid about fakes.
    And if you tell people youre using the KPs for what they were originally intended you get kicked instantly.
    "I used my KP for guildhall stuff or to buy infusions" gets you kicked out of a group really fast because people instantly assume that youre a noob and dont have any KP which in most cases isnt true.
    The problem is in the peoples heads, because they are so distrusting and are not using LFG the right way.
    People have a trust issue and problems to trust other people that they speak the truth.

    If you want a smoth run with "pros", try putting something like that on LFG
    "Fractals all CMs, fast run, be experienced or kick"

    And btw. theres a lot of good players out there who dont have the time to farm fractals daily but are still so good that they can easily do the CMs, but if they see the 250 KP requirement, they just think "kitten those elitists, im going with another group"

    Putting "experienced" or "pros" in the LFG won't help because people over-estimate their own ability. There was a thread last week where someone had 12 raid kills and had "seen most of the bosses" who then considered themselves experienced based on that. This was very far from the truth and why using KP is a thing.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2020

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    just ask for titles and not for KPs. cuz they cannot be faked

    but they can be bought.

    kps too :bleep_bloop:

    True, except for the ones not available any longer.

    Beside that though, I fail to see how you can equate something which takes 1 run as similar to something which takes multiple hundred runs.

    If we assume 300 KP as "requirement" and an average of 2 KP per run, which was the average pre change, you are essentially arguing that these 150 runs are is as easily bought as 1 run for the title.

    The difference in dedication, cost and time allocated is way higher in on case versus the other.

    @Blumpf.2518 said:
    The Problem is that people think that KPs are required to "sort out the bad players" and are kitten paranoid about fakes.

    It has worked so far and since it is not going away, it seems to continue to work.

    @Blumpf.2518 said:
    And if you tell people youre using the KPs for what they were originally intended you get kicked instantly.
    "I used my KP for guildhall stuff or to buy infusions" gets you kicked out of a group really fast because people instantly assume that youre a noob and dont have any KP which in most cases isnt true.

    Infusians can be pinged, most often people who claim they've used the KP for the guild are given 1 try.

    @Blumpf.2518 said:
    The problem is in the peoples heads, because they are so distrusting and are not using LFG the right way.

    These "people" are using the LFG exactly as is intended: they put up what they are asking for ans expect others to respect their wishes.

    Only because you personally might disagree does not make this in any way wrong.

    @Blumpf.2518 said:
    People have a trust issue and problems to trust other people that they speak the truth.

    If you want a smoth run with "pros", try putting something like that on LFG
    "Fractals all CMs, fast run, be experienced or kick"

    You mean ask for something and hope others respect your wish? Sounds almost like what we had with KP, only even more reliant on the joining party being honest.

    News flash: having to kick people isn't fun. It takes time, causes toxicity and frustration and everyone tries to avoid it. Not to mention the amount of forums posts of disgruntled players following kicks.

    I do find it hilarious though how suddenly the anti KP faction discoverd the "just kick them then" argument. As if any one enjoyes having to kick others from group.

    @Blumpf.2518 said:
    And btw. theres a lot of good players out there who dont have the time to farm fractals daily but are still so good that they can easily do the CMs, but if they see the 250 KP requirement, they just think "kitten those elitists, im going with another group"

    Yes congratulations, you've realized that the KP system is not perfect, far from it.

    If you want to be rid of it, you should make an argument for a better system which is fairer (to all parties involved) and not come up with nonsense excuses why KP are bad. WE KNOW.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2020

    Since the old KPs were removed I experience a lot of issues. I almost daily get groups that can't even beat 100CM despite asking for 150-250 old KPs. They also want to see DwD, which I have obviously, but thanks to selling this title means literally nothing. Imo removing KPs has made fakers and liars less careful.

    I also think unlike in raids titles in fractals CM runs are more important and therefor selling them is a D-move hurting this mode severely.

    To be honest doing my daily fractal runs have become so frustrating I have totally lost interest in it.

  • @Clyan.1593 said:
    Since the old KPs were removed I experience a lot of issues. I almost daily get groups that can't even beat 100CM despite asking for 150-250 old KPs. They also want to see DwD, which I have obviously, but thanks to selling this title means literally nothing. Imo removing KPs has made fakers and liars less careful.

    I also encountered some players with old kp (100-150) who were failing mecas on 99, but instead of more fakers, it can also be due to "old" players return to test the new fractal, but they forgot how to play...

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • @Blumpf.2518 said:
    The Problem is that people think that KPs are required to "sort out the bad players" and are kitten paranoid about fakes.
    And if you tell people youre using the KPs for what they were originally intended you get kicked instantly.
    "I used my KP for guildhall stuff or to buy infusions" gets you kicked out of a group really fast because people instantly assume that youre a noob and dont have any KP which in most cases isnt true.
    The problem is in the peoples heads, because they are so distrusting and are not using LFG the right way.
    People have a trust issue and problems to trust other people that they speak the truth.

    If you want a smoth run with "pros", try putting something like that on LFG
    "Fractals all CMs, fast run, be experienced or kick"

    And btw. theres a lot of good players out there who dont have the time to farm fractals daily but are still so good that they can easily do the CMs, but if they see the 250 KP requirement, they just think "kitten those elitists, im going with another group"

    Like @Cyninja.2954 and @Ayrilana.1396 said KP is far from perfect but this all we got.
    People don't care at all when you just put "exp" on lfg as it means nothing : what exp means? 1 training? 1 successful run? 10runs? 100run?
    It is not a trust issue as we all experienced people who were thinking they were good (so without lying) but in fact no. And sure people without kp can be good, but you can't know without running with them and then your "exp" run can easily turn in a "training" run... No one like kick people, so we use kp to minimize this issue.

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • One think i dont unterstand is, why you even need more Kps for Fractal Cms, then for Raiding? Most of the Raid encounters have a higher difficulty then Frac Cms and i never see 250 Kps request for Lfg. More like 50 - 100 kp, often less and on average you get more kps per kill in rais(3), then in Fracs 2. Sure the Lfg groups in Fracs maybe want to more "speedrun" the content, then the Raid Lfg groups. All Speedrun Raid groups are most likely Statics and dont want random Lfg people. Now you could do the same for Fracs. The difference would be, that the Static will run every day in the week or (6 out of 7 days etc. ). So its harder to manage your RL + Gw2 playtime. The solution for some "speedrunner" is to have the possibilitie to see Kps, Titles, Arc Dps logs or even to see how often a player kills encounter/boss. This would fix her problems, because they can pug via Lfg for "Speedruns". The consequence for new player would be, that they have to ping Kps and most farm them (like now), show dps logs or most show titles etc. . The best case szenario for "Speedruns" via Lfg, would be the worst case szenario for new player who want to get in touch with Frac cms. Keep that in mind.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    Well they could make kill-proof account wide and have it tracked like the death count. In the LFG, Anet could create a filter for predefined thresholds for KP. For example, there could be a threshold for 50+ KP and another for 100+. Those that don't at least meet the selected threshold simply do not see the LFG. This way would keep someone's KP mostly hidden in case they were afraid of being judged by it and also ensure that groups only get players that meet the KP setting they have selected.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Well they could make kill-proof account wide and have it tracked like the death count. In the LFG, Anet could create a filter for predefined thresholds for KP. For example, there could be a threshold for 50+ KP and another for 100+. Those that don't at least meet the selected threshold simply do not see the LFG. This way would keep someone's KP mostly hidden in case they were afraid of being judged by it and also ensure that groups only get players that meet the KP setting they have selected.

    Yep, but they won't do it unfortunatly (see what a fractal dev said in the guildchat about kp).

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    Here is another example: https://imgur.com/a/ptToMUU
    They even use the killproof.me hoping we won't check that, then become toxic when we do.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Here is another example: https://imgur.com/a/ptToMUU
    They even use the killproof.me hoping we won't check that, then become toxic when we do.

    Perhaps it would have been better understandable with more context, but what i see is someone posting their killproof, then someone else putting up an LFG requirement that doesn't match that killproof.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Here is another example: https://imgur.com/a/ptToMUU
    They even use the killproof.me hoping we won't check that, then become toxic when we do.

    Perhaps it would have been better understandable with more context, but what i see is someone posting their killproof, then someone else putting up an LFG requirement that doesn't match that killproof.

    Not really, it seems to me they just changed the roles needed in lfg, it's pretty common

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly I don't see the point in these discussions anymore. It is abundantly clear that they have no intention of re-instituting KP. It has never been compatible with their stance on "accessibility", and any feedback, no matter however logical or reasonable will not change their minds. People who want to clear fractals in a way that requires more competence than your average title only group need to bite the bullet and move to killproof.me. You can't fake KP there and it's more resistant to any changes Anet makes in the future. If it becomes mainstream it would only be a matter of time until someone makes a simple overlay that takes the inconvenience of using the site out of the picture.

  • @Derm.4932 said:
    Honestly I don't see the point in these discussions anymore. It is abundantly clear that they have no intention of re-instituting KP. It has never been compatible with their stance on "accessibility", and any feedback, no matter however logical or reasonable will not change their minds. People who want to clear fractals in a way that requires more competence than your average title only group need to bite the bullet and move to killproof.me. You can't fake KP there and it's more resistant to any changes Anet makes in the future. If it becomes mainstream it would only be a matter of time until someone makes a simple overlay that takes the inconvenience of using the site out of the picture.

    Or anet blocks api from that site as anet dont want any kill proofs

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Here is another example: https://imgur.com/a/ptToMUU
    They even use the killproof.me hoping we won't check that, then become toxic when we do.

    Perhaps it would have been better understandable with more context, but what i see is someone posting their killproof, then someone else putting up an LFG requirement that doesn't match that killproof.

    Not really, it seems to me they just changed the roles needed in lfg, it's pretty common

    Possibly - but it's not there in the picture posted. That's why i said that more context would help

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Derm.4932 said:
    Honestly I don't see the point in these discussions anymore. It is abundantly clear that they have no intention of re-instituting KP. It has never been compatible with their stance on "accessibility", and any feedback, no matter however logical or reasonable will not change their minds. People who want to clear fractals in a way that requires more competence than your average title only group need to bite the bullet and move to killproof.me. You can't fake KP there and it's more resistant to any changes Anet makes in the future. If it becomes mainstream it would only be a matter of time until someone makes a simple overlay that takes the inconvenience of using the site out of the picture.

    Or anet blocks api from that site as anet dont want any kill proofs

    Arena.NET can just unlist the KPs in the API but this isn't the main problem. True I don't like sites who use API keys because in other games like EVE online you can do so much nasty stuff with it. The main problem is the new 100cm is just hard even with the right group when even one is slacking or greed too much dps the whole group wipes .
    To but more details in it and be more precise:

    -> the last water phase is with lower dps a roulette without voicechat because you can't track who has how many and in general the effect goes random
    -> You need an awful amount of cc in this fractal cc consumables became mandatory
    ->In the sorrow phase the fps drops heavy for many players because of the light show + your are really get blinded on the screen on this. - This is the main reason of 90% of the wipes. The only way around is using level 22 rocks

    • > cFB is just OP 25% more dps then every other build in average
    • > The fractals bugs it can't really count I don't know how much is fixed but thunderstorm phase didn't end because it things there is still one, not meteor to hide behind all blow up, and on T4 I had that not every one had a cycle with them when running apart
    • > Phases can overlap partial and total in this fractal e.g. the cycle phase where you need to run apart + sorrow phase.
  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Here is another example: https://imgur.com/a/ptToMUU
    They even use the killproof.me hoping we won't check that, then become toxic when we do.

    Perhaps it would have been better understandable with more context, but what i see is someone posting their killproof, then someone else putting up an LFG requirement that doesn't match that killproof.

    Not really, it seems to me they just changed the roles needed in lfg, it's pretty common

    Possibly - but it's not there in the picture posted. That's why i said that more context would help

    Sure but we can't check your assumption too, which is less probable in my opinion than just a roles change.

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • But Anet said on stream that the best way to check someone's competence in fractals is by gear checking them? I don't see an issue since this game has a built-in gear checker and allows said thing in their ToS. Or at least so I'd expect since those comments were made.

    minecrafter

  • @Janitsu.6284 said:
    But Anet said on stream that the best way to check someone's competence in fractals is by gear checking them? I don't see an issue since this game has a built-in gear checker and allows said thing in their ToS. Or at least so I'd expect since those comments were made.

    There is no "built-in gear checker" and it will probably never the case : it's against the tos right now, even if a dev said that.

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • @Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

    @Janitsu.6284 said:
    But Anet said on stream that the best way to check someone's competence in fractals is by gear checking them? I don't see an issue since this game has a built-in gear checker and allows said thing in their ToS. Or at least so I'd expect since those comments were made.

    There is no "built-in gear checker" and it will probably never the case : it's against the tos right now, even if a dev said that.

    Yes, I am aware. My post was satirical because I have little to no faith in Anet ever fixing these actual issues, rather than trying to make the game as casual as possible.

    minecrafter