Get rid Of placements

Get rid Of placements oVER THE PAST 23 season My placements are full of afkers and dcers. So the fate of personal ranking is at the hands of this so called placement . So typically what happens I end up in gold and get group with players that got placed in my bracket these players are losers and dont belong there .

So im constantly carrying players or just out right loosing the match all together . Ive been following these players and checking there wins and looses. They end up were they belong silver ... Now when a player has a good placement and they end up in plat they end up not playing the rest of season ........

So i purpose get rid of placements every one start from 0 and go from there Double points if you beat a team that was pre made and pre made teams get half point progression.. PLAYERS with top stats get bonus rank point per top stats ...

Now i play over 1000 GAMES per seaon in this 3v3 right now im at 450 ranked games played Im tired of seeing players add there 2 cents who dont even play Create a poll let the players decide

reserved for edit Also would like to see a players pvp progression rank ( not season rank) you can tell alot form this number like time played and how serious they are. We have PROGRESSION numbers in pve and wvw PUT IN IT PVP thanks in advance

You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?

@Dantheman.3589 said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

@Thanks.6859 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

No, actually, it doesn't.

Placements are just regular matches, they just hide your rating from you at the start. It doesn't do a "magic calculation" after the 10th game and then place you, like the friggin Sorting Hat. If on the 9th match in "placements" your hidden rating is for Gold-1, then after the 10th match that fact just gets revealed to you. It's all just a silly trick to stop people from seeing the shit-show that is the ratings at season start.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

No in fact it does you have 10 placement games total Once you reach the 10 that's it regardless of afker or dcer

@Thanks.6859 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

I told you for a reason. Ragnars right. Placements are just mmr based matches which are hidden because they start you in a different spot than from previous system. If you would look up the effects of a match with a dc mmr wise on your placements you would see that they don’t effect them at all.

@Thanks.6859 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

No, you're wrong.

You have just played 10 games, that are the same as any other 10 games you play during the season.

The fact that they're called "placements" doesn't mean that they function any differently to regular games.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

I disagree but non the less there worth less get rid of them. Why Hide these placement if that the case let us see where we stand when season starts it makes no since And also each game is +13 ON Average if everyone starting at 0 and play 10 games how are they plat

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

Not at all.

The first 10 placements have enormous rating gains & losses. 1-10 first games are far larger gains & losses than even 10-20. You can use api tools and go track your first games if you don't believe me.

What Thanks is saying is actually true. Getting jipped out of a win during your placements, especially if it happens in games 1-3, is a massive chunk of rating that you don't get, and you don't get compensated for later. Even if someone DCs for 2 minutes and you don't LOSE points, you still aren't getting like +65 or some enormous number that you should have, if he had stayed and you would have been able to win the match.

Going into game 11 and having your rating revealed doesn't compensate you in any way for missing out on some large rating gain like that, and if he DCed too late you still lose rating, well GG, you get eat -60 rating or something horrific like that. In fact, you plainly just miss out on it and start going down into maximum games of +25 in game 11, and then down to like +17s in game 21, until you start going towards +13s and 14s in game 31, and eventually end up in game 50+ getting +8s and +10s, so on and so forth.

I agree completely with @Thanks.6859

With the way the rating system keeps lowering and lowering gains/losses, and how it likes to 50/50 your win/loss ration, the large volatility in ratings shifts during games 1-10 are too detrimental and too strongly dictate how easy or hard it will be for you to climb or even drop after your initial placements. When you really sit and watch it and really pay attention, it doesn't make sense anymore in low population. And upon that, they really should stop with soft resets. All the soft resets do at this point in low population, is make things take FOREVER to settle each time a season restarts, and the match making is an unholy nightmare during that phase.

There is nothing to do about AFK-s. Matches with DC-s don't count however. What badge is shown after 10 games is only based on your valid matches.What do you even mean by getting rid of qualifiers? It just how the first 10 matches are called because a-net hides your rating/badge from you at the very beginning. Just imagine your first match is your 11th and you're golden.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

I think he’s aware of that, but I believe you are bringing up a completely different problem- that a -0 as compared to a win can largely affect the displacement of your average rating in the view of the match maker.I believe there’s some good forum post which display what you rating is during placements and how the match maker views it that also demonstrate how on average early wins are much better than later wins for the rating you will receive from placements.This is enherently different becuz it also uses the fact that match maker has a slightly different number for what match’s you get put in in placements and that this is more important because placements start you at a fairly low rating. Not becuz dcs actually hurts your rating

How about get rid of spvp instead?Also, I admire ppl that still take rating serious after all this time. Respect.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Thanks.6859 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:You do realize if someone dcs in placements you lose no points?You still take the loss and that effects the placement there is no redo

I am well aware of how volatility works and that the +/-s for the first 10 games are much larger than later games.

However, if you read OP's post, he's suggesting that we should "get rid of" placements and instead start immediately at the "first proper game" and "everyone start at 0".

I was making the point that the "first proper game" IS the first game of placements, and the soft-reset basically IS "everyone start at 0" (kinda). Simply removing the label of "placements" will do nothing at all. If you actually want to change how things pan out you would need to look at the volatility parameter. Infact you make the exact some point that I do by pointing out that you can track your placement rating through API, which proves that placements are part of the exact same algorithm as later games, and are not some completely separate system, and also that a much more important thing to look at would be the soft-reset.

Once again, simply removing the "placement" label and starting "proper rankings" at game 1 rather than game 10 will change literally nothing if you do not adjust the volatility curve or soft-reset formula.

Just ignore your rank and play for fun. There is barely any point in playing competitively in the top 25, let alone in silver-low plat.

@Thanks.6859 said:Get rid Of placements oVER THE PAST 23 season My placements are full of afkers and dcers. So the fate of personal ranking is at the hands of this so called placement . So typically what happens I end up in gold and get group with players that got placed in my bracket these players are losers and dont belong there .

So im constantly carrying players or just out right loosing the match all together . Ive been following these players and checking there wins and looses. They end up were they belong silver ... Now when a player has a good placement and they end up in plat they end up not playing the rest of season ........

So i purpose get rid of placements every one start from 0 and go from there Double points if you beat a team that was pre made and pre made teams get half point progression.. PLAYERS with top stats get bonus rank point per top stats ...

Now i play over 1000 GAMES per seaon in this 3v3 right now im at 450 ranked games played Im tired of seeing players add there 2 cents who dont even play Create a poll let the players decide

Have you ever got the thought that you are the problem? 1000 games per season and only gold sounds like a you problem

On the last part of my original post i wrote " Im tired of seeing players add there 2 cents who don't even play" i added a few of you who seem to be clueless and sure enough your names dont even show up for the last 2 pvp seasons

Placements have absolutely nothing to do with your 'personal ranking' at the end of the season. If you were placed low in placements, you can climb out in a handful of matches, worst case. If you were not placed at your actual skill level, that is.

Not to mention what you are writing (dc-s, afks etc.) happen to all people, so it is calculated risk.

This is just another case when someone thinks 'I am better than all the people I am playing with' when you are clearly not. If you can't climb, it's your fault on the long run. If you feel like you are carrying, you have to carry harder.

I am sorry to shatter your world.

Placement matches always have been the worst for me. In terms of "fun" matchmaking. It isn't only about losing rating or not. (Which you do not - if someone disconnects for at least a few mins.)

Even if I have my placement ... it feels a bit (after new season or mini season starts) as if there are lots of other players with the "wrong" rating in the pool of players that are queuing.

Now if I remember correctly it uses0.51200 + 0.5[previous rating] as starting value. Then doing placements (with high score volatility) from there.But that just means that at the begining you could have huge differences between the real rating and the one used at that time. (Until it gets stable again.)

I mean ... ideally the 1800 player starting with 1500 (according to the formula) ... wouldn't mean much. If it was balanced and each team got those players evenly distributed. Then again: Small playerbase. And the 1800 player might lose if he has a super bad team + a bad day where he can't carry all the others. He might just go down (with high volatility).

It just takes some time. At least 1-2 full weeks (first week almost every match is bad matchmaking). For normal season conquest 5 vs. 5.

I don't see why we need placements. If someone plays regularly ... until there are super huge changes in the balancing (where you'd have to consider that everyone might have to re-learn their classes/builds) ... there should be no need for this.

Maybe they could make it like WvW. Where the wood tier completion measueres how often someone played. (And he gets +1 pip the following week.)

If someone played at least x Matches previous season ... he does not get his rating reset to 0.51200 + 0.5[previous rating] + having to do placements - but just continues with the previous rating.

@"Thanks.6859" said:On the last part of my original post i wrote " Im tired of seeing players add there 2 cents who don't even play" i added a few of you who seem to be clueless and sure enough your names dont even show up for the last 2 pvp seasons

I can promise you that my name wont show up at all on the LB for the last 5 seasons and I can promise you that I'll have more experience and knowledge then you would ever get from this dying game. The Leaderboards don't mean jack shit, and never has to be fairly honest. The single thing that holds any value at all in this game is the Monthly tournament and that's it. If you cant get into Semi finals then you probably shouldn't talk about experience or bringing up people "ranking" as a sign of being more advance then them.

@dronte.3416 said:Placements have absolutely nothing to do with your 'personal ranking' at the end of the season. If you were placed low in placements, you can climb out in a handful of matches, worst case. If you were not placed at your actual skill level, that is....

You don't climb out in a handful of matches. It depends on luck and where you start after placements.Last season I started in gold 1 after placements and it took me about 50 disapointing matches to leave the zoo. From there it was then only a handful matches to plat 2.The season before I started in plat 3 after placements. It was easier to reach plat 2 ;) from there.

I find these soft resets with huge mmr gains or losses very bad considering how small the player base is actually.

Re Op:> @Thanks.6859 said:

Arenanet should have Never had duo queue and class switching pre match be a thing in pvp ranked. It makes comp manipulation cakework and balance nearly impossible through automated systems, especially when they dont take into account 2 high ranked duos synchronized vs a bunch of soloists not in discord.

Ranked should be solo only. No classes should be changable after queuing up.

That would fix a lot of the issue. Thats how GW1 worked, and pvp was far more healthy there.

Who knows if it will ever happen. Until then, enjoy the trash heap that is spvp.

I like your idea to start from 0. But i have to say placements have worked well for me. I've always won and lost at a ratio very close to 50/50. At the end of every season i've participated in, my win rate is always close to the ideal situation, of winning roughly half your matches. That's how you know if MMR is working, if you are losing half of your matches, then it's working. So MMR, for me, has always worked. Even times when I have started very low in the season due to placements, i was able to climb the ladder a few hundred points, but my win rate was still almost 50%. So I like your idea OP, but this MMR system works and I don't want to see it changed or removed for that reason.

I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to having them do a hard reset on rating after so many seasons.

The 10 placement games indeed are just regular games, the only difference is that gw2 adds "volatility" to the point system for your first couple matches that drops with each match. So if you loose your first 3 matches you're probably losing around 250 points or something whereas if you lose your last 3 matches you're only losing about 80 or something.. You can see the actual numbers on gw2efficiency if you've done your placements.

It's a double edged sword really.. The purpose is to give players a chance to reach their respective mmr they belong in quicker like everyone's starting with (1200 + last played season elo) / 2 and then adding the gain or loss (which is influenced by volatility too). So if you are winning a lot in your first couple matches you're immediately plat2 or 3 but if you are losing a lot you are immediately in silver1 or something.. But like you've pointed out, there are a lot of afk'er and some dc'ing a lot, coming back and dc'ing again or dc'ing too far into the match so that it still counts.. Guess everyone knows those kind of matches unfortunately..If you are unlucky with your mates then this can reeaally hurt your mmr and for that reason I wouldn't mind removing the volatility honestly. For example in my last active season I've lost my very first match due to someone randomly going afk which cost me like -98 points I think.. That's insane and if I had won this match I'd have been placed in plat 3.. so yea, just the one or two first matches can really ruin your placement which isn't particularly unlikely to happen just by bad luck either.

PS: before you make a background check on me too, yea I've been taking a break for several seasons now. Just wanted to hop in pvp again and checked out the forums after that but as far as I can tell pvp balance, playerbase and diversion is still in quite a bad state.. couple players left a bitter taste in my mouth already so there's that.. bye again I guess