Reaper or Deadeye

Hi Folks,

I'm new to Guild Wars 2 and I just got to lvl 80/all Reaper skills the other day, enjoying it but also at the same time I'm not yet set on what I would like as my main for PvE & PvP, so hopefully some advice from people here can help me decide.

What do you think is more viable to do everything, Fractals/Raids/WvW Roaming?

Thanks!

Reaper is good for solo pve and unorganized groups. But struggling in organized content.Deadeye have little use in pve outside raids, and considered a difficult spec. But excels in competitive modes.
Use the Daredevil thief espec, which have more broad use.

Honestly, both thief and necromancer (realistically you'll be swapping specs and builds as you get comfortable with the professions) are viable in all content. Both have condition and power builds and both can partake in both sPvP, WvWvW, and PvE.

That said, they do have different playstyles.

Thief is more bursty, with active defenses such as evades to keep it alive. Though the down-side is if your rotation slips too often, you'll be more heavily punished. Thief does have some "slow-but-steady" options as well however as well.

Necromancer is tankier and a slower. It doesn't have cloaks or active defenses (such as evasion built into attacks) - though it does have healing from traits as well as a lot more AoE cleave built into many of its attacks.

Ultimately, it comes down to flavor.

Do you want to have a bit more potential towards burst? Do you want to cloak and jump around, evading enemies like an annoying gnat until you deal the killing blow? Do you enjoy moving quickly? Thieves are often used in sPvP for capturing points, as an example - so that is a role you'll often be expected to fill. If that sort of thing appeals to you - moving quickly, cloaking not only yourself but also your team, dealing good amounts of burst damage. . .then go thief.

Do you want to be a slower but steadier character? Do you want to have a decent healing build? Reaper has a decent power build which is fairly bursty. Scourge, core, and reaper all have slow-but-steady DoT builds. Necromancer itself has a good amount of CC as well in all its specs. They have little-to-no active defenses (such as blocks or evades), but they compensate by having a few good life steal traits as well as having a large health pool and lots of shroud/barrier. If those things appeal to you, then go thief.

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In the hands of a decent player (which, I hate to say it - a lot of the 'forum whiners' are not), any profession is useful in any environment. What matters when choosing a profession is:

a) It's theme. Do its aesthetics appeal to you. If you hate purple butterflies, you'll have an eye-sore every time you play mesmer. If you get giddy every time you see green and black shadows, of course you'll enjoy necromancer.

b) Its strengths. While anyone can do most anything, some have the tools in the class to do specific tasks better than others. Some also bring specific effects to the table.--Necromancers are tanky with plenty of condition application and a few good burst specs. But most importantly - they bring a lot of boon-stripping to the table. This is something other classes don't do as well or at all. They can really support a team with condi pressure and and CCs - dealing a lot of damage and even denying areas from enemies (unless the enemies can deal with the heavy AoE attacks).--Thieves bring AoE cloak and burst damage - as well as the ability to evade nearly permanently (for a time) only the table. They can be really annoying to take down and they can disengage in fights (and heal to full thereafter) more reliably than other professions - only to quickly rejoin a fight they were losing with a full health pool.

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Worst case scenario - try out both classes and pick whichever one resonates with you the most. You'll have a lot more fun that way.

For myself, necromancer hasn't always been powerful. It is in a good spot now, but it has had highs and lows. I've ridden those highs and lows and I enjoyed every minute of it - because I enjoy the profession.

Your answer is reaper. You're new, you need to learn stuff, and for that you need a tanky, forgiving profession that will let you get stuff done, while you soak in how combat system works and what's what in each mode. The necro is hands down best for this job.

Necro facetanks his damage and is very stat reliant. This is good for you. You can grab a lot of professions and get to endgame just fine. The question is - how much will you learn by then? Necro will make you understand the basics that will later pay off for you. Like what condi does what and how can you use it to defend yourself. How stats work and how they relate to one another (like toughness, vitality and healing power). The necessity of stunbreakers and watching out for cc. And how stats and skills can be combined to achieve multiple ends (like tanky stat-wise, but offensive skill wise, or vice-versa).

The Deadeye is the better pick for end game pve from pure damage and "meta" perspective. But this is a very unforgiving profession that is squishy and goes down fast if caught. To rack up any meangful damage on thief you must be on top of your game and avoid mistakes like the plague since downed thief doesn't do much damage, while necro will take 3x the punishment and still be standing and doing his.

Once you however get your head around core (albeit too often neglected) concepts of combat system and feel comfortable on thief, than you can take him for a spin in end game content.

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

Reaper is cool and can dish out some great dps even with my lower tier gear, I do like the whole range play style as well which is why I was thinking about trying Deadeye for the rifle play.

Is Ranger very similar to Deadeye in terms of the playing style, keeping at range etc?

Be aware also - this is just my opinion bearing in mind.

A lot of people will say "necromancer because it is more noob friendly".

I would hesitate to call it more noob friendly, except for maybe open world PvE. Which is noob friendly content on any class, it doesn't get especially challenging until Heart of Thorns (and by that time, you aren't a noob anymore). Even elementalist and thief will have a pretty easy time. Plus you'll be more engaged on them - which is good for your enjoyment of the game.

At face value, necromancer is theoretically noob friendly. However:1) Relying on its more passive defenses teaches bad habits. Choosing a class that relies on more active defenses will teach you good habits that are applicable for any class. You'll have to learn these habits on necromancer anyway - only it'll be much later.2) More-so in PvP, a lot of people hear "necromancer is noob friendly" and then go into PvP expecting an easy time. You'll have a harder time than a lot of other professions (at first) until you get used to its unique form of gameplay. It is a bit more sluggish and you really do need to learn some nuances (such as manipulating the z-axis to avoid certain attacks) to get the most mileage out of it.3) People say it is noob friendly - again they mean "noob friendly in open world PvE". Which is easy as cake until you get to Heart of Thorns and have to learn mob attack patterns. Any class will be fine in Tyria Open World (aka before Heart of Thorns).

I'd actually suggest going for whatever class people will say is hardest at first. That'll teach you the best habits - and by the time you get to other classes, you'll have transferable skills that make them more of a breeze. I'd advocate that anyone who wants to learn "how" to play the game plays Elementalist at first. Though for you, Thief will be closest to that level of gameplay. After you do that, most anything will be a relative breeze to learn - and you'll know a lot more about maneuvering around the game.

I have no idea where the noob friendly "myth" came from - but IMO it is damaging to people's perceptions of necromancer. People will go into the class anticipating that it is a cake-walk. They'll get their cake-walk in the open world (which for the third time - literally any class will also get this), then they'll be shocked by the sudden difficulty when they hit other content.

So yeah. TL;DR - you may have an easier time at first, but you'll hit a sudden learning curve as necromancer when you get into more difficult content. If you want to learn good habits for most classes - pick thief instead of necromancer. Then transition back to necromancer if you don't vibe with thief.

Learn those good habits from having the lower health pool and less passive defenses - you'll have a better time IMO.

You can start as necromancer - just don't touch a minion master spec. I'd start off with a corruption spec, that'll get you more into those "good habits" with necromancer. It is possible to start off as necromancer and still learn them - just a lot of people will try to rail-road you towards a minion master build.

If you start as necro, don't do a minion master build - starting off relying on minions will teach you MANY bad habits that you'll have to then unlearn when you inevitably move away from minion master.

Just my 2 cents on learning the game from the perspective of having to choose one of these professions.

Or I guess just temper your expectations - just because some will tell you necromancer is relatively easy, don't expect an easy time.

Reaper is much more fun than DE if you like to be proactive in your gameplay.Even core thief is more fun than DE if you like being proactive.

@"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

If you start as necro, don't do a minion master build - starting off relying on minions will teach you MANY bad habits that you'll have to then unlearn when you inevitably move away from minion master.

Ironic how we see the same things in opposite ways. To you necro is bad because it does not teach much about active defenses. While to me other profession are bad becuase they don't teach you about passive defenses, stat systems and using condies along with boon hate to defend yourself.

But on this one point it's a hardcore agree. To learn as a necro stay away from minions with sole exception of "Rise!" as it is an active defense skill. You should face tank and through it learn how to deal with incoming damage and attack types.

Thief has a hit and run playstyle. You have to move around and avoid pressure constantly with your mobility and/or stealth. Necromancer is way more straightforward and often called "easier" by many players, even though this is not correct when looking at the bigger picture.

• While thief has to move around all the time, it has also the tools to do so. If your reactions are slow, then you die faster than on any other class, but the class gives you the options to never die in any possible scenario.
• Necromancer has a lot more fight presence because it is a lot more durable, but can't disengage effectively, if it gets overwhelmed. So you have to anticipate the development of a fight a lot more to pull yourself out of the action before it is too late.

Both classes are pretty much the opposite in terms of how the combat system of the game feels. That's why I created charaters for both and have a few thousand hours of play time with both. But since teef is too forgiving in not dying (feels a bit like cheating), but also too frustrating when it comes to carrying a team fight (you simply can't carry, because each decent team can ignore you for a while, while destroying your team), I am playing necro almost exclusively for a while now.

Easy: although I really love my Reaper, it's the least useful of the two for what you want to play:

• In PvE Open World/Solo: Any thief build with Invigorating Precision and Marauder gear (although Bounding Staff Daredevil does outshine Pistol Pistol Deadeye imo) is pretty much unkillable, does really high damage (better than a Reaper) and has MUCH better mobility due to your shortbow skill 5 (a.o.). A lot of players consider Invigorating Precision as THE best trait in the game if it comes to solo-ing open world, and makes PvE really easy mode! Also, shortbow tagging mobs is pretty much unbeatable as well! Really, there's no better option than thief in open world, imo!
• In Raids: Rifle Deadeye is simply the better DPS spec, actually by a longshot (about 20% to 30% better), compared to your worst pick of all classes: the Necro (Reaper). Rifle Deadeye is not an easy build to master, but has one of the best DPS in the game. If you want an easier build: do Double Dagger Deadeye, which still outshines the Reaper, and has arguably THE most easy DPS rotation of all raid viable builds (definitely easier than a Reaper at least).
• In T4 Fractals: Both Reaper and Deadeye are pretty good, but not Meta. Power Daredevil is better than Deadeye though.
• PvP: Depends completely what you want to develop as your playstyle: Is your playstyle fast and quick, you like roaming and decapping? Then Thief (any spec) is definitely your pick and is pretty much the best at it! Or do you like (longer) teamfights, defending (mid) cap point, etc., then Necro/Reaper should be your choice, and is pretty good at it.
• WvW Roaming: Deadeye for sure! Deadeye is literally unbeatable if it comes to roaming WvW (maybe by its own spec: the Daredevil, but that's about it). A good thief (any spec) laughs at any Reaper any time of the day, the Reaper will probably not even come close and get even one hit in, if you play your thief right.

I like reaper more but they're both viable in both PvE and PvP content so just pick what appeals to you. Pick reaper if you want to run around with a sword hitting everything and pick deadeye if you want to hide in the shadows sniping with a rifle.

If ur comparing reaper and deadeye, then yes, alot of the posters above had given very insightful comments.

But it all goes out if the window if u add scourge as an option.

Reaper/Scourge can cover an extremely wide spectrum compared to Deadeye/Daredevil.

@mizaru.1385 said:If ur comparing reaper and deadeye, then yes, alot of the posters above had given very insightful comments.

But it all goes out if the window if u add scourge as an option.

Reaper/Scourge can cover an extremely wide spectrum compared to Deadeye/Daredevil.

The context is fractal/raid/WvW roaming, and in this context, deadeye/dardevil don't really have a narrower spectrum than Reaper/scourge.

• In all 3 gamemode, DE/DD are both able to outshine Reaper/scourge in term of single target damage.
• In fractal and raid Reaper/Scourge have a slight advantage in clearing adds thanks to their aoe potential.
• In regard of support, Reaper/scourge have the advantage in term of defensive support while DE/DD overpower them in term of offensive support and group utility.
• In WvW roaming, DE/DD is superior thanks to it's mobility and ability to conceal itself.

If it's aim was WvW zergling and it was before ANet heavily cut down the scourge's support in WvW, you'd be right that scourge make a difference. But now? The things scourge bring to the table in WvW aren't better than what a DE bring to the table (in fact DE can probably bring more nowaday, even if players seldom make use of this possibility).

@mizaru.1385 said:If ur comparing reaper and deadeye, then yes, alot of the posters above had given very insightful comments.

But it all goes out if the window if u add scourge as an option.

Reaper/Scourge can cover an extremely wide spectrum compared to Deadeye/Daredevil.

The two professions are very different. While Thief does not have a support spec like Necro's Scourge, boon corruptions or condition pressure, it does have dps from melee to long range, stealth and the ability to reset a skirmish. I agree Thief could use more build variety, including a unique support build, but it is not unpopular because it works in its own way. Necro has its own limitations players struggle with. I still remember when Necro was always dead last in a dungeon and half the time it was Thief who stealth-res'd when players went down. I would like to see Thief get a unique mechanic for group support on its next elite, though; not healing but something like stealth wells for players to hide in or dropping a bunch of environmental weapons for allies.

@mizaru.1385 said:If ur comparing reaper and deadeye, then yes, alot of the posters above had given very insightful comments.

But it all goes out if the window if u add scourge as an option.

Reaper/Scourge can cover an extremely wide spectrum compared to Deadeye/Daredevil.

Scourge doesnt bring anything really useful to the table at the moment (with the exception of WvW zergs, but that was out of scope by the OP)! Like @Dadnir.5038 already stated, the Scourge offers quite good defensive support, but (mainly in the PvE endgame) this is not that desirable at all: you either want offensive support (damage rules the PvE endgame: it literally breaks mechanics!) or healing, not defensive support. At least not in the more experienced teams. And well, that's where everyone would like to end up eventually, right? Or do you want to stay inexperienced your whole life?And that's actually the main issue of Necro (and Scourge) in general, it's really good, if not the best in aiding inexperienced groups. But in the more experienced groups it hardly ever outshines in anything. Except maybe for ressing, which is again great in inexperienced groups ...

Btw, this is also the main reason why I always recommend different classes than Necro to new players. It's far more effective to choose the right class from the beginning (with maybe a steeper learning curve, although I really wonder if that's still the case these days, like I said in case of the Thief: Invigorating Precision in combination with Marauder gear makes everything easy mode!!!), instead of teaching yourself the wrong things, which might be easier right now to only have to relearn everything later on (on a different class), when you get to the more experienced levels. The Necro veterans on this forum, know what I mean!