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Stop letting free account into WvW

SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭

People using free account to troll in WvW is out of hand, it needs to be handle by not letting free account plying in WvW.

the only reason anyone would go to WvW with free account is to troll / spy tactivator pulling , I do not see any other reason anyone would go to WvW with a low level trial account.

it is also damaging to Anet's income when player dont buy gem from the gem store to transfer.

please stop allowing Free Account into WvW. You will have cut down griefing in WvW by a whole lot.

Thank You

Comments

  • Slick.7164Slick.7164 Member ✭✭✭

    Banning FTP is a good place to start

  • For sure there is a lot of spying/trolling so I'd be in favour of anything that makes it harder to troll pull tactics, waste supp etc

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Em, no?
    First of all, f2p accounts in WvW are not for trolling purposes only. You can snipe other ppl, play on other servers if your matchup is boring, play with your friends from other servers etc. And ofc you can also troll enemy servers or your own.
    And second, if ppl want to troll, they gonna troll, one way or another. Cheaters should be banned always, no matter under what circumstances. But trolls? WvW is not competetive mode, you can hire 100 ppl (accounts*) to afk in spawn whole day not allowing others to play and you cant do anything about it.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • phreeak.1023phreeak.1023 Member ✭✭✭

    Not banning but f2p accounts shouldn't be able to activate tacticts.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    For a lot of players new to the game, free to play accounts are akin to putting their feet in the water before committing to a swim.
    The last thing we want to do is discourage folks from playing the gamemode, even if there are bad apples among them.
    Adjust the setting on tactivators so that when set to private a confirmation prompt appears to those in a guild when someone not in the guild pulls it. The guild can then confirm or deny.

    ~ Kovu

    This sentiment sounds nice, however, from my experience people that are actually new, as you describe, I would say 90% don't want to try WvW and then 90% of those that would want to try WvW with a new ftp lowbie toon are, likely, going to have a poor experience or hopefully not try WvW with said unequipped toon and just buy the game. No I think this is a poor argument in reality. What I mean is, I understand your point and respect the premise, however,I find it unrealistic. I find it much more realistic to consider that most Serious FTP players are just trying out the game. They wana see basics and get a feel which is all ftp should provide.

    Granted, on the one hand its very nice that ftp get access to wvw, pvp, etc. In practice, many that play those modes with ftp cause problems like the OP mentions. Meaning, they are often trolls in wvw, throw alts in ranked, people just trolling the game in general, trolling map chat, etc, etc. All the kitten that drives people away from the game. Much of which is best done w FTP, at present. That seems like an obvious issue. Also more legit ftp that would be interested in buying the game at some point (the ones who actually matter IMO) would likely be content to try pve, non-ranked, etc. If the game was changed to cut off ftp from these few things. I do think it would be very beneficial. It would cut out a large source of shenanigans.

    What Im saying is I see very little reason for FTP to need to try WvW directly or ranked pvp for that matter to know if they like the game enough to buy it. I mean u can get it half price which is like $15 for pof +hot. Seriously, I think the game would be healthier overall if FTP had a few restrictions beyond no free daily 2g and full TP.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    Hey, a good player I know is a F2P core mesmer.

    Besides, this is a tact and alt problem, not a F2P problem.
    I've long said that WvW should only let their own Guilds and entrusted individuals pull tacts.

    After all, once a player has been playing long enough in favour of their server, they become well recognized be it a roamer or commander.
    Additionally, the Guild which owned the tact will get a notification which pings the player which pulled the tact and at what time in a log.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This whole "Oh no! My precious tactics!!" attitude is exactly why we end up screaming "PULL THE EWP!!" for three minutes in /team chat while garri is melting but nobody actually does it.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Hey, a good player I know is a F2P core mesmer.

    Besides, this is a tact and alt problem, not a F2P problem.
    I've long said that WvW should only let their own Guilds and entrusted individuals pull tacts.

    After all, once a player has been playing long enough in favour of their server, they become well recognized be it a roamer or commander.
    Additionally, the Guild which owned the tact will get a notification which pings the player which pulled the tact and at what time in a log.

    That's a terrible idea.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    For a lot of players new to the game, free to play accounts are akin to putting their feet in the water before committing to a swim.
    The last thing we want to do is discourage folks from playing the gamemode, even if there are bad apples among them.
    Adjust the setting on tactivators so that when set to private a confirmation prompt appears to those in a guild when someone not in the guild pulls it. The guild can then confirm or deny.

    ~ Kovu

    This sentiment sounds nice, however, from my experience people that are actually new, as you describe, I would say 90% don't want to try WvW and then 90% of those that would want to try WvW with a new ftp lowbie toon are, likely, going to have a poor experience or hopefully not try WvW with said unequipped toon and just buy the game. No I think this is a poor argument in reality. What I mean is, I understand your point and respect the premise, however,I find it unrealistic. I find it much more realistic to consider that most Serious FTP players are just trying out the game. They wana see basics and get a feel which is all ftp should provide.

    Granted, on the one hand its very nice that ftp get access to wvw, pvp, etc. In practice, many that play those modes with ftp cause problems like the OP mentions. Meaning, they are often trolls in wvw, throw alts in ranked, people just trolling the game in general, trolling map chat, etc, etc. All the kitten that drives people away from the game. Much of which is best done w FTP, at present. That seems like an obvious issue. Also more legit ftp that would be interested in buying the game at some point (the ones who actually matter IMO) would likely be content to try pve, non-ranked, etc. If the game was changed to cut off ftp from these few things. I do think it would be very beneficial. It would cut out a large source of shenanigans.

    What Im saying is I see very little reason for FTP to need to try WvW directly or ranked pvp for that matter to know if they like the game enough to buy it. I mean u can get it half price which is like $15 for pof +hot. Seriously, I think the game would be healthier overall if FTP had a few restrictions beyond no free daily 2g and full TP.

    You have a very pessimistic view of the newer players of the community (which I completely disagree with), fail to recognize that many of those players choose to remain on their free accounts rather than upgrading to full accounts and still enjoy the game as much as any of us, and by pointing out the low cost of the game you strengthen any argument people make that trolling isn't caused exclusively by folks in free accounts. Rather, dedicated trolls will spend the money on the game (and as pointed out above are often alt accounts paid or otherwise of existing players on different servers) to accomplish their mission. Those kinds of players are clearly try hard and won't be stopped by a tiny investment.

    Considering how much this game offers with only an initial cost and no subscription I will always be in favour of granting more to the folks who throw a bit of money at purchasing the game in full, but "mah tactics" is a sorry argument for cutting away a potentially great influx of newer players into the gamemode.

    ~ Kovu

    Funny, but I see the same facts and draw another conclusion. I really dont understand what great benefit accommodating new players who wont even spend $15 on the game. Furthermore, I see allot of benefit out of making a few restrictions to encourage people to actually fork out and buy the game if they plan to continue to play. Additionally, I think those that dont pay should have more restrictions than they do presently.

    I wouldn't say I have a "pessimistic view of the newer players of the community". I do however see that FTP accounts create potential for shenanigans in ranked and wvw that would be reduced if people had to pay $15-30 to unlock that mode. Would it solve all the issues? Hell no. Do I think its very reasonable to suggest it wouldn't necessarily be bad idea? Hell Yeah! I actually love helping new players. This discussion has nothing to do with that topic. The topic is that FTP has less liability in the sense that one can just make new ones as much as one wishes which creates potential for shenanigans that doesn't exist with purchased accounts.

    I knew when I posted in agreement with OP that even my well reasoned point many would criticize, disagree, etc. Its cool. I still wanted to suggest what I think actually is an honest point of view with no real objective in mind other than to try and look at the OP's topic and try to way in. o/

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @raptorak.8250 said:
    To add on, it's not always nefarious. I had a long hiatus from the game and returned after these things were added. I had no idea what they were or that they were only usable once, so I used one of the SMC ones (I believe it was one of those air bombers or something?) because I saw a usable switch. I haven't since because I know this now, but when you have potentially tens of thousands of people that don't know about this stuff, it's easy to see them being used a lot and to think it's "trolling" even though it's tons of different people.

    That is also a good point - many people who enter WvW new learn by trial and error a majority of the time without knowing what things are/how they work/what to do. When I see a new person pulling tactivators (though many people need to be informed when the best time to use chilling fog), I let them know what their use is (defense/offense) and when to use them. Not their fault really, it's not like there are tutorials for new people entering WvW, just people screaming at them when they do something wrong lol.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    @Pagan Highlander.5948 said:
    This is a stupid argument. First a Free account has to be level 60 to enter WvW, and since you cannot instantly level, Trolls are not going to spend their time to level a character just to Troll a server, So almost all are Paid accounts WvW. Second, you can't ever stop trolling regardless. Third, this only serves to further discourage new players from joining WvW and thus our long term survival of this game mode

    Thanks for reminding me, I always forget the fact that the ftp players are also level bound before being able to enter WvW which is, as you point out another reason and also highlights that most people trolling will be on paid ones.
    Edit: Just to clarify, paid accounts only need to finish the initial tutorial after character creation to enter WvW (I don't know why the wiki says level 31 *, because I sometimes go to wvw maps to find banners to level up my keyrun characters which is at lvl2 after tutorial, and yes I double checked just then).
    *Note: only if you've never entered wvw before, the requirement is lvl31

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    An interesting potential for later on, is to have an option to set Tactics to "Alliance only", same way we got guild only now. (You know, somewhere in 20 years or so).

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    “Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
    “The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2020

    @joneirikb.7506 said:
    An interesting potential for later on, is to have an option to set Tactics to "Alliance only", same way we got guild only now. (You know, somewhere in 20 years or so).

    Which is why I think they should implement alliances even if they dont currently use them for matchmaking. Just guilds being able to ally themselves with other guilds and thus unlock "alliance features" such as you say, only allow tactivators to ally guilds. Having an alliance chat. Having unique alliance tags. Etc and so on.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pagan Highlander.5948 said:
    This is a stupid argument. First a Free account has to be level 60 to enter WvW, and since you cannot instantly level, Trolls are not going to spend their time to level a character just to Troll a server, So almost all are Paid accounts WvW. Second, you can't ever stop trolling regardless. Third, this only serves to further discourage new players from joining WvW and thus our long term survival of this game mode

    This seems like the best point so far that suggests, tactics pullers may not be mostly F2P people in WvW afterall.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    For a lot of players new to the game, free to play accounts are akin to putting their feet in the water before committing to a swim.
    The last thing we want to do is discourage folks from playing the gamemode, even if there are bad apples among them.
    Adjust the setting on tactivators so that when set to private a confirmation prompt appears to those in a guild when someone not in the guild pulls it. The guild can then confirm or deny.

    ~ Kovu

    This is why I don't think it would be a good idea to stop f2p players from entering WvW. The idea of having tactivators accessible only by alliances (or "alliances" of guilds) would be an interesting one and has potential.

  • Not that this would solve the problem. Why not confine ftp to low ranking WvW servers.

  • Dust the tactics levers for fingerprints!

  • Your always going to have trolls, but allowing free accounts is good. Hopefully they like the playstyle and sense of a different community other than pve or pvp and invest in their account which is healthier for the community as a whole.

  • archmagus.7249archmagus.7249 Member ✭✭✭

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    People using free account to troll in WvW is out of hand, it needs to be handle by not letting free account plying in WvW.

    No trolls are both free accounts and paid.

    the only reason anyone would go to WvW with free account is to troll / spy tactivator pulling , I do not see any other reason anyone would go to WvW with a low level trial account.

    You need to be level 60 before free accounts can go to WvW that's hardly "low level".

    it is also damaging to Anet's income when player dont buy gem from the gem store to transfer.

    I highly doubt that a significant source of Anet's income is world transfers. Given how you can't transfer for 7 days after transferring worlds.

    please stop allowing Free Account into WvW. You will have cut down griefing in WvW by a whole lot.

    Thank You

    The problem with trolling is how tactivators work. Blocking deployment of seige, food, and banners near the tactivators will certainly help. Blocking the tactivator use until a defense event is up is a good start. Guilds having private tactivator activation so only members of that guild can pull tactics (will revert to public when nobody of that guild is on the map).

  • archmagus.7249archmagus.7249 Member ✭✭✭

    @Carnius Magius.8091 said:
    Not that this would solve the problem. Why not confine ftp to low ranking WvW servers.

    World linking would completely screw this up. You'd get ftp players linked to normal players when they're linked to the higher ranked worlds.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2020

    It is a WW design flawa towards how tactivators work and why they exist in 1st place, not related to free acounts or high ranked acounts.

    Give tactivators to lords as npc skills :P problem gets somehat solved.
    Scales with the blob size blobing the lord....

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    This Fourm: "WvW has a population problem! It's dying!"
    Also this Forum: "Stop letting new people play WvW!"

    This sums it up pretty well. =)

  • or just limit f2p accounts in wvw to not be able to use tactivators

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mikdepadua.8376 said:
    or just limit f2p accounts in wvw to not be able to use tactivators

    That still does not stop paid accounts which account for most of the pulling.

  • @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @mikdepadua.8376 said:
    or just limit f2p accounts in wvw to not be able to use tactivators

    That still does not stop paid accounts which account for most of the pulling.

    lessening the occurence is better than nothing

  • From what I've seen, the most trolling actions like Tactivator pulling, Siege building on top of tactics, etc etc, are done by payed players.
    Secondly, accidentally pulling tactics is also a thing.

    I support the following suggestions I read above:

    • Message in map or teamchat "so and so pulled ..."
    • No dropping of items on tactivators

    Some personal suggestions:

    • Have a Rank limit before you can pull tactivators. Give people the chance to learn about them before they can use them.
    • History list for the Guild that claimed the objective. (Putting things guild exclusive means you always need a guild member on the map - not practical)

    Limiting or right out banning a whole group for WvW might seem an attractive idea, but it is not.
    A Game Mode that has population problems you want to block f2p?
    Think about it.
    You're punishing a WHOLE group for what is in MAYORITY done by a WHOLE different group.

    That doesn't sell well at all.

    I would say, yesterday I got trolled by an Asura Thief.
    Lets block ALL Asura from WvW due to that!! that surely helps a little.

    Wait a week ago, a friend was trolled by a Charr... lets ban all Charr as well!

    Ow that's a human troll... lets ban ALL humans...
    Wait that Norn... and that Sylvari...

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    People using free account to troll in WvW is out of hand, it needs to be handle by not letting free account plying in WvW.

    the only reason anyone would go to WvW with free account is to troll / spy tactivator pulling , I do not see any other reason anyone would go to WvW with a low level trial account.

    it is also damaging to Anet's income when player dont buy gem from the gem store to transfer.

    please stop allowing Free Account into WvW. You will have cut down griefing in WvW by a whole lot.

    Thank You

    You have any proof of this? Have you submitted it?

    Because to be honest, while not saying free accounts are not an issue for spying for sure.....Most of the trolls and cheaters I have seen in the last few months are on high WvW ranked accounts. One I reported last week was a high ranked core guard that would port fully out of sight to get OOC and then port back in. I honestly think these accounts are probably hacked or sold accounts, as it seems to be a new wave of cheaters as of late.

    What we need are some simple safe guards in WvW, not banning free accounts. These should have been there since tactics etc were added, but here we are with nothing still.

    • EWP and Invulnerable Fortifications should only be pullable if the structure is contested, this will stop 99% of the trolling on these big items.
    • When a tactic is pulled it should list the players name in map chat, such as "-Player Name- Used EWP at Hills" So if someone was trolling, people would be able to keep track of who it is, you could also add in a system that whoever holds claim can "block" some users, just like you do on your personal block list. Another plus is for EWP pulls, it could list the EWP in the msg, so you didn't have to try and spam it.
    • Siege lock the area around tactics just like your spawn area is, so people can't build troll siege on them, you could also lock it so food and other items can't be placed in this same area.

    Just these 3 things should remove the need to ban any kind of account type, it makes trolling harder if not impossible and allows more people to come into and enjoy WvW.

    Nice ideas, particularly the contested suggestion. I would take this one step further so that there has to be at least 5% damage on a structure (wall, door) to enable the tactivator. Otherwise tapping will enable the tactivators.

  • Zikory.6871Zikory.6871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hesione.9412 said:

    Nice ideas, particularly the contested suggestion. I would take this one step further so that there has to be at least 5% damage on a structure (wall, door) to enable the tactivator. Otherwise tapping will enable the tactivators.

    What if your team repairs everything while a enemy group is in the objective? Can't use tactivators?

    [KnT] Knights of the Temple

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hesione.9412 said:
    Nice ideas, particularly the contested suggestion. I would take this one step further so that there has to be at least 5% damage on a structure (wall, door) to enable the tactivator. Otherwise tapping will enable the tactivators.

    You're going to be real mad when someone pops a portal and drops 40 people onto the Lord and you can't use EWP to stop them.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The main thing we need is:

    • be able to use ewp on demand
    • not have someone pull it for fun

    Now in very rare scenarios, ewp will be used to get to another structure quickly if keep is contested. I am definitely willing to relinquish this. What other thresholds are we willing to go with to let us trigger ewp normally though? Outside of dmg to keep, what other (safer) options are there? A minimum of 1-3 enemy in vicinity of keep (keep in mind this can also be bypassed)? How can we do it beyond asking for a map vote, which is problematic in itself.
    (teamchat) *** has activated EWP @location_map [vote yes/no to activate ewp]
    (after which a threshold is reached to activate wp from every player who voted - what that threshold is has to have a bare minimum (like less than 3~ votes and it doesn't activate). It's a double edged sword no matter where I look though (this doesn't account for a troll who multiboxes or has buddies).
    Maybe a combination of 3~ enemies in vicinity of structure and minimum of around ~3 votes in /t chat to activate? Mind you when it activates it should also echo this in teamchat:
    *** Emergency waypoint activated for @location_map @emergency_waypoint_link

    If that is not feasible there should (in place of reporting because we all know how well that works) be a function to tag people as a tactics pulling troll, like some kind of reputation system, and if there is enough people tagging them, it stops that particular player from pulling any tactivators for a full day, or for the whole week of the matchup. This can be done with either some command in chat or highlighting person/right-click etc. I don't know how it would interact for people who actually guild claimed/slotted the tactics themselves though. Seems like any change can kind of backfire but it still feels like a necessary evil.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Hesione.9412 said:
    Nice ideas, particularly the contested suggestion. I would take this one step further so that there has to be at least 5% damage on a structure (wall, door) to enable the tactivator. Otherwise tapping will enable the tactivators.

    You're going to be real mad when someone pops a portal and drops 40 people onto the Lord and you can't use EWP to stop them.

    Oh, like now when an EWP can't be pulled because it's on cooldown?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2020

    Honestly, the solution is just to block everyone from playing WvW. That will fix ALL problems with WvW.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • @Obtena.7952 said:
    Honestly, the solution is just to block everyone from playing WvW. That will fix ALL problems with WvW.

    They haven't fixed most major issues so why start now and ruin that record!

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • msalakka.4653msalakka.4653 Member ✭✭✭

    This mode has so many bigger issues that I'm not losing sleep over some clown pulling a tactic.

  • Those who have been here since before F2P accounts, there was plenty of spying, trolling and sabotaging going on in favor of enemy servers from pay accounts. My own experience of the game as it stands now is that the spying, trolling and sabotaging is vastly less frequent now than it was.

    [UNIV] GL, [TLC] Squirrel Wrangler, devotee of [POO] the number 2 guild on Fort Aspenwood.

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    100% but then again... Anet dont care about wvw and pvp..

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    The main thing we need is:

    • be able to use ewp on demand
    • not have someone pull it for fun

    Now in very rare scenarios, ewp will be used to get to another structure quickly if keep is contested. I am definitely willing to relinquish this. What other thresholds are we willing to go with to let us trigger ewp normally though? Outside of dmg to keep, what other (safer) options are there? A minimum of 1-3 enemy in vicinity of keep (keep in mind this can also be bypassed)? How can we do it beyond asking for a map vote, which is problematic in itself.
    (teamchat) *** has activated EWP @location_map [vote yes/no to activate ewp]
    (after which a threshold is reached to activate wp from every player who voted - what that threshold is has to have a bare minimum (like less than 3~ votes and it doesn't activate). It's a double edged sword no matter where I look though (this doesn't account for a troll who multiboxes or has buddies).
    Maybe a combination of 3~ enemies in vicinity of structure and minimum of around ~3 votes in /t chat to activate? Mind you when it activates it should also echo this in teamchat:
    *** Emergency waypoint activated for @location_map @emergency_waypoint_link

    If that is not feasible there should (in place of reporting because we all know how well that works) be a function to tag people as a tactics pulling troll, like some kind of reputation system, and if there is enough people tagging them, it stops that particular player from pulling any tactivators for a full day, or for the whole week of the matchup. This can be done with either some command in chat or highlighting person/right-click etc. I don't know how it would interact for people who actually guild claimed/slotted the tactics themselves though. Seems like any change can kind of backfire but it still feels like a necessary evil.

    ... You do realize that even if you troll pull EWP and literally say in team its a troll pull... You will still get at least 3 people voting yes.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes that's why it can backfire no matter what