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Epidemic of rangers and thieves in WvW

manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭
edited November 8, 2020 in WvW

The most used class (at least in T1) these days are probably thieves and rangers. There's some good reasons for that.. rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kill u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just try sw/d weaver.. it happens to me quite often! Thieves.. are thieves, no need to explain how annoying they are! ANET devs must be aware of all that but they obviously doesnt care! How did they manage to build such a nice game but then ruined it with such a bad balance! Money talk I guess, I dont feel like ANET is worthy of my money anymore! Why should I care for a company who doesnt care about their custumers?!?

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Comments

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    So... lemme see here...

    You run low health, light armor class and:

    • Ranger kills you = game bad

    • Thief kills you = game bad.

    Got it..

    Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

    Convincing argument.

    Ok so lets all play thieves or rangers, is it your argument? I'm a main ele since gw1 and well, I'll stick on it even if eles are not so popular in wvw. I hoped that weaver was to bring some fun to eles and it did but ANET nerfed it alot in the past 2 years. So yeah, I'm raging to see some class ruling wvw with easy skills as I play piano and destroy my keyboard to survive or to do some little damage!

    I'm not sure that Strider disagrees with your notion of balance, I think he just pointed out the quality of your post, especially when creating a new thread on a known topic.

    I think it's a fair point to argue how balance impacts profileration of classes. The two classes in question are also becomming more popular. However, their overall popularity is rather different. The reasons for why they are becomming more popular are rather different and a profileration of Tower Rangers is most likely not it (in the Ranger's case it's far more likely a combination of better melee-balance, which can be a positive, and the pretty abusive imob/condi builds sprouting up more and more, which is a problem). Tower Rangers may be getting more popular as well as more and more players drift towards casual cowardice as content plummets (eg., more sniping from towers when there are less groups resetting towers). I'm not sure that is as much of a balance issue though, even if the behaviour can be frowned at.

    It would have been much better to make some grounded comments like that, if you wanted to create a thread.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    I'm not sure that Strider disagrees with your notion of balance, I think he just pointed out the quality of your post, especially when creating a new thread on a known topic.

    Its a known topic, exactly, so known I cant stay grounded as you advise, its too frustrating to see that ANET being so unfair for some class (eles in particular) and so permissive with others.

  • Thief and Ranger can counter certain builds/classes more than others. Its part of the game. They are still weak to Immobilize and CC spam. They are also fun to play.

    If you keep coming across certain builds/comps you have to change traits/builds or even professions OR go to other maps/areas. It happens to everyone where you constantly keep running into hard counters to what you are playing. Its up to you to adjust and counter things, that's what keeps this game interesting.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    Yeah, I' gonna call shenanigans on thief and ranger being over represented in WvW.. Necro is still the most common from what I see.

    I'm a roamer so its a roamer point of view,. I dont see so many necros roaming thse days, I play alot, mostly in t1 lately,and I'm about sure about what I say when I say there is an epidemic of rangers and thieves but probably not in zergs, my bad I should said I was talking about roaming.

  • Necro is very safe to play right now with lower damage by enemies and necro shroud.

    I tend to float around t3-4 with the occasional t2 and I see a lot of Necros. I would expect more Thieves and Rangers in T1.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @sneakytails.5629 said:
    Necro is very safe to play right now with lower damage by enemies and necro shroud.

    I tend to float around t3-4 with the occasional t2 and I see a lot of Necros. I would expect more Thieves and Rangers in T1.

    Its out of subject but true. Nothing to compare with the proliferation of thieves and rangers but there is a bit more of necros lately and some are very tanky with still very decent damage. Glad you have fun with it :) I do enjoy my weaver btw, I stick to it for some good reasons, soloing camps for example is quite easy.. except its weak when I consistantly meet thieves and rangers on the way. Noobs apart, I cant do anything vs them whatever build or gear I use. So many of them now I'm getting scared about the fact that the noobs with these class will get better overtime, then it will be the end of hopes for my ele!

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    If you think its stealth its not that we just aren't playing anymore. This game has its period where you have to wait for anet to give you the game back before you can play it again.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps the rangers are the answer to the many necro's? Since they do take down necros from range, they only thing zerg trailing rangers are good in.
    And WSR in T1 should not have a lot of rangers.. I suspect there are just as many in T2, 3 etc. Just less players.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kil u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just try sw/d weaver..

    If you get killed by pewpew ranger as sw/d weaver (also with additional hp from warclaw) then let me tell you straight - this class is not for you, better switch to warrior, guard, tetris, idk.
    L2p issue, sw/d Weaver > ranger, either that or its stalemate after nerfs. With teefs its in weavers favour or stalemate if teef plays safe. The only problem might be DE cuz its hardcounter, but you can easily just run from it.

    Learn your class first, then start complaining about others.

    The thing is, people cant because they wont learn/play other classes to figure our what's going on, so people just complain instead and expect some form of sympathy.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Problem is soulbest, not ranger.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:
    The most used class (at least in T1) these days are probably thieves and rangers. There's some good reasons for that.. rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kil u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just try sw/d weaver.. it happens to me quite often! Thieves.. are thieves, no need to explain how annoying they are! ANET devs must be aware of all that but they obviously doesnt care! How did they manage to build such a nice game but then ruined it with such a bad balance! Money talk I guess, I dont feel like ANET is worthy of my money anymore! Why should I care for a company who doesnt care about their custumers?!?

    So you just registered i guess you are new to wvw.
    In that case my advise is first to join a commander, use one of the meta classes (guard/necro/reventant) and go with them until you get some experience in this gamemode.

    If you roam alone you and don't know the gamemode you will get ganked many times by thieves, rangers or mesmers. There aren't that many rangers or thieves, it's just if you go alone to camps those are the classes you will meet in those scenarios.

    Go with the commander.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    @manu.7539 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    So... lemme see here...

    You run low health, light armor class and:

    • Ranger kills you = game bad

    • Thief kills you = game bad.

    Got it..

    Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

    Convincing argument.

    Ok so lets all play thieves or rangers, is it your argument? I'm a main ele since gw1 and well, I'll stick on it even if eles are not so popular in wvw. I hoped that weaver was to bring some fun to eles and it did but ANET nerfed it alot in the past 2 years. So yeah, I'm raging to see some class ruling wvw with easy skills as I play piano and destroy my keyboard to survive or to do some little damage!

    I fought an ele just yesterday who knew how to play to survive while running glass. He was oneshot killing people left and right.

    So idk why somehow you think you are at a disadvantage here. There are good SBs and good thieves but most are average and can be killed if you bring the damage.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

    Idk sir, this one is highly debated by many people to be a fact.

    I wouldn't blame it on the devs. Devs just do what they are told to code.

    If you want someone to blame, blame lack of research, testing, which both fall on the design domain, and have nothing to do with coding the thing. Code evaluation comes with testing, so numbers need to be changed but by definition whoever designs a class should conduct a retrospective.

    I think most issues would be remedied if - like with all good companies - products get tested with customers before any release takes place. In my experience they conducted only one (major) public Beta with the release of the new specs including the Deadeye. How much data they got and how much of it they took seriously is debatable, but what is the crux is the approach of the company and how they choose to do everything in secrecy before releasing.

    Every transfer delays alliances.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Andy.5981 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    10 out of 10 rangers and thieves agree that thief is the worst duelist and ranger has no damage.

    Here let me correct that for you

    10 out of 10 (insert class here) and (insert class here) agree that (insert class here) is the worst duelist and (insert class here) has no damage.

    What? You didn't correct anything. But yeah what roaming classes and builds are out their, thief is the least worrying, when you have things like power/condi revs, holos even core necs are a bigger threat because they just dont die lol. Shadow arts d/p daredevil is the most annoying roaming build though

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    Sw/f weaver here, but I wouldn't say I find ranger to be a particular problem. Admittedly, better projectile hate may be a factor here. The ones that have endless sources of immob can be an issue, though, especially in outnumbered fights (but it's outnumbered so...).

    Thief is a tough one. If they slip up they are dead very quickly, but it doesn't feel like a fight that is ever in my control. It's on them to make that mistake because otherwise I just can't stay on them. Having said that, I can stalemate many thieves I come across fairly easily and it's not uncommon for a thief to get a little too greedy in that situation. Deadeye is just a straight up hard counter, though.

    You're always going to find a lot of thieves in WvW roaming. Stealth and mobility are excellent skills to have for survival here. Unfortunately, playing sword weaver vs. thieves in roaming tends to feel pretty unrewarding. The best you can hope for is that they slip up and let you finish the fight. If it's any consolation, the thieves you can force a stalemate with aren't feeling very rewarded either. But that's the stupidity you end up with in a game that doesn't place enough restriction on mobility/stealth in competitive play.

  • Wolfric.9380Wolfric.9380 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    Hi. I came back today after two years pause. I always mained ele. Walked out trying to see how my rusted fingers perform. LoL. First opponent i met. Ranger. I cought and downed him but well i am to too bad at the moment ^^. His pet rezzed him. So i guess i need to learn how to play this again :-). What i like to say i always won to thiefs and rangers. And even after being totally out of training downed the first. A lot depends on your build. I run quite heavy missile defence with a unique S/F tempest. So if they kill you dowhat i did years ago when dying over and over again to thiefs. ... Tweaking my build to fit my playstyle and beat them. Needed about three month trainig so don´t give up.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    OMG, cant answer to all of you coz rip my day if I try! I'll respond at least to those saying I'm a noob! I dont see so many mithril ranked players, I'm over 5k ranks and mostly played roaming ele to reach it. I probably played wvw more than most of those calling me a noob!

    Yes its true I dont know all class as I should but I played enough the past 3-4 years to see these 2 class getting more and more popular and its ruining my roaming., My hopes and hard work to stay main ele are evaporating slowly. As I said before it will only get worst as the new comers in these class will get better. I just wanted to sound the alarm about this issue and didnt want to complain about my ele, I dont want to get into it here.

    Guess some will never admit my statement but I know we're alot to complain about thieves and rangers (more about thieves for sure). Give me perma invuln as thieves got perma stealth and I wont complain but it would be ridiculous! Perma stealth is only a bad joke, getting one shooted from 1 mile away is another one. Like it or not, there is issues with these 2 class that need to be adressed and I dont see any seriousness coming out from ANET about it. So yeah I'm getting mad! Sorry about it but I love this game too much to let it ruined without saying few tough words!

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On my thief I notice rangers right away because their main attacks stand out instinctively to me. They also have similar positioning and post up habits that I catch in my peripheral vision so again I'm going to notice those one or two rangers more than the blob of everything else rolling over me constantly.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @Wolfric.9380 said:
    Hi. I came back today after two years pause. I always mained ele. Walked out trying to see how my rusted fingers perform. LoL. First opponent i met. Ranger. I cought and downed him but well i am to too bad at the moment ^^. His pet rezzed him. So i guess i need to learn how to play this again :-). What i like to say i always won to thiefs and rangers. And even after being totally out of training downed the first. A lot depends on your build. I run quite heavy missile defence with a unique S/F tempest. So if they kill you dowhat i did years ago when dying over and over again to thiefs. ... Tweaking my build to fit my playstyle and beat them. Needed about three month trainig so don´t give up.

    Yeah I also kill many rangers but I know its only because they are still new with the class and there is alot of them out there. An experienced ranger will keep you at distance if you are playing melee style, then you will feel like a sitting duck waiting to die! Just keep playing and try sword/dagger then you will see what I mean!

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    The speed at which this post gets responses in comparison to when someone asked for help playing support firebrand highlights some... interesting population analytics on who uses these forums.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It seems like the biggest problem with rangers is they can 1hko you while you're on a mount. This is because your armor stats don't apply until for a second or so when you get dismounted, so guards/eles/thieves that get dismounted only have effectively 11k health and 0 toughness- easily taken out with a single rapid fire+sic em+one wolf pack

  • Wolfric.9380Wolfric.9380 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    Guess i agree. I personaly could not get warm with weaver and i always play flexible. Pure melee has disadvantages. I used warrior for melee with lot of CC not ele. I startet to like tempest and unless the new expansion brings some cool hybrid or focused element type i will stick to my fire/earth tempest. Might also be that i don´t finde GW2 intresting enough due to not liking any grinding/levling and thus most PvE aspects. And in the past i had been quite good with my build challengening the best thiefs in duels bringing pain in long fights to them. The problem is good thief know when and always can disengage. :-(

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    Weaver has roles in WvW as does Tempest.

    Just because those roles don’t fit your style doesn’t mean it’s broken.

    These roles are only a result of balancing issues. The game claims to have a design philosophy, where every class can play everything. Especially since we got elite specs.

    It's not a player's fault, if he buys a game with that philosophy, picks a class and gets hardcountered by another class.

    That said: a bunker elementalist can survive every ranger build, but it can not kill every ranger build. It's the same with thief. Sustaining thief and ranger is possible for a long time and maybe these two classes get bored and leave you alone. And what do you achieve? Nothing but wasting your time while these two classes determine your gaming experience. That's where the frustration comes from against thief and ranger.

    Let's face it: remove ranger and thief and you have only classes left that either can fight to death or leave the fight without the chance of re-engaging their former target again, because leaving the fight consumed their whole mobility and range resources. This inevitably leads to the fact, that the game would be a better/healthier/less toxic place without ranger and thief (or of course with a different design of ranger and thief).

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:
    OMG, cant answer to all of you coz rip my day if I try! I'll respond at least to those saying I'm a noob! I dont see so many mithril ranked players, I'm over 5k ranks and mostly played roaming ele to reach it. I probably played wvw more than most of those calling me a noob!

    WvW rank doesnt show anything, usually ppl with higher rank are easier to kill and never roam because theyre zerglings or farmed EotM back in the days. Even sPvP titles doesnt show much nowadays since population is so low.

    Yes its true I dont know all class as I should but I played enough the past 3-4 years to see these 2 class getting more and more popular and its ruining my roaming

    They always been popular because theyre efficient with mobility and kill potential. Doesnt change the fact that as sw/d weaver you either met ppl with higher mechanical skills than yours and they just pwn you or you dont know how to play around ranger/teef and just randomly do keyboard piano (which is l2p issue).

    Usually i dont get involved with this kind of posts, but sw/d Weaver is one of my mains so Im little annoyed. Yes, I can see why ppl say that ranger and teef are 'painful' in wvw, but please dont put your class in here because it has nothing to do with it.
    Manage your cleanses vs druid. Pewpew ranger is just the matter of dodging sic'em combo, really, just dodge, go in and watch dmg (repeat if needed). Boonbeast is matter of proper pressure, spike and might uptime. Sw/d teef just watch his animations and where he puts sw2. D/p is matter of predictions and spike but since every1 runs with SA its rather stalemate. Staff - dodge? lol. DE - here i wont tell you how to win with sw/d, it really depends how teef plays it but that one is for sure not in your favour.

    So, 7 builds, 1 is not in weaver favour, 6 are either winnable or stalemate (all speaking on same lvl of both players). Annoying to fight? Yes. Hardcounter? Only in 1 case.
    As I already said, if you want to play sw/d so badly then learn your class first, if not then switch to d/f or other class, idk.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    Weaver has roles in WvW as does Tempest.

    Just because those roles don’t fit your style doesn’t mean it’s broken.

    These roles are only a result of balancing issues. The game claims to have a design philosophy, where every class can play everything. Especially since we got elite specs.

    It's not a player's fault, if he buys a game with that philosophy, picks a class and gets hardcountered by another class.

    That said: a bunker elementalist can survive every ranger build, but it can not kill every ranger build. It's the same with thief. Sustaining thief and ranger is possible for a long time and maybe these two classes get bored and leave you alone. And what do you achieve? Nothing but wasting your time while these two classes determine your gaming experience. That's where the frustration comes from against thief and ranger.

    Let's face it: remove ranger and thief and you have only classes left that either can fight to death or leave the fight without the chance of re-engaging their former target again, because leaving the fight consumed their whole mobility and range resources. This inevitably leads to the fact, that the game would be a better/healthier/less toxic place without ranger and thief (or of course with a different design of ranger and thief).

    You really think that removing them would do as you say?

    People forget what else is out there..

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:
    On my thief I notice rangers right away because their main attacks stand out instinctively to me. They also have similar positioning and post up habits that I catch in my peripheral vision so again I'm going to notice those one or two rangers more than the blob of everything else rolling over me constantly.

    That's interesting and lead me to a tought: did the proliferation of thieves caused the prolification of rangers? Probably a part in truth in it since rangers are the most effective vs thieves. I'm too stubborn to ditch my main just because 1 or 2 class are too OP vs me but I have the same temptation sometimes!

  • Just an average day on Maguuma.

    [YWY] Weeping Valley //
    My Youtube: Coconut Racecar
    Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seems more like Baader-Meinhof phenomenon than an epidemic. When certain builds can easily counter your build you coincidentally notice them more often and are upset by their presence.

  • Wolfric.9380Wolfric.9380 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    Well while i beat thiefs (at least to run) and kill most rangers i usualy died horribly to necros and some mesmers but am fine with that. My ele evolveed as a small team build and thief bait and it does it very well. Also very good in PVE.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The thing with "I get dismounted by pew-pew" is that you need to stop expecting to be able to just ride around anywhere in perfect safety just because you've got 8k hp and immob immunity on your mount.

    It's annoying when rangers do this stuff, but the alternative is pretty much a meta where it's impossible to burst anyone down to punish them for a gap in their defenses, just horrible sustain-monsters slowly pressuring each other. No thanks.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @Wolfric.9380 said:
    Well while i beat thiefs (at least to run) and kill most rangers i usualy died horribly to necros and some mesmers but am fine with that. My ele evolveed as a small team build and thief bait and it does it very well. Also very good in PVE.

    Thats funny coz I dont have issues with necros and mes, I'm not winning all the time but at least i'm getting fair fights. No reflect skills on sw/d weapon set, its fun to play because of the mobility but it has that weakness. Since they removed stabs from weaver stances I'm in even more trouble vs ranged skills combined with cc's like immo, fear stuns etc. I never understood why they completely removed the stab, that was just simply too drastic. Seeing that in the other hand they never really nerfed stealth spamming from thief, yeah I'm alot skeptical about ANET philosophy.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    Ty! That's the plain reality, finally someone honest! Well, cant expect a thief to be honest... lol, it just doesnt make sense!

    Gratz to mag, finally some people understood that rangers can be great in zerg fights, I totally agree with it :)

  • @ASP.8093 said:
    The thing with "I get dismounted by pew-pew" is that you need to stop expecting to be able to just ride around anywhere in perfect safety just because you've got 8k hp and immob immunity on your mount.

    It's annoying when rangers do this stuff, but the alternative is pretty much a meta where it's impossible to burst anyone down to punish them for a gap in their defenses, just horrible sustain-monsters slowly pressuring each other. No thanks.

    Agreed. Since the implementation of mounts I've never thought to myself "why can I be dismounted so fast?!" but rather "I got further than I would have without it".

    Every time someone blasts me off my Mount it feels 100% deserved. Most times if I can tell I'm not going to get by a player(s) I'll just dismount anyway and see if I can fight or escape some other way if I'm too heavily outnumbered.

    I'm glad that at least some things can reliably dismount players because combat avoidance should never be a thing that's encouraged.

    [YWY] Weeping Valley //
    My Youtube: Coconut Racecar
    Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:

    @kash.9213 said:
    On my thief I notice rangers right away because their main attacks stand out instinctively to me. They also have similar positioning and post up habits that I catch in my peripheral vision so again I'm going to notice those one or two rangers more than the blob of everything else rolling over me constantly.

    That's interesting and lead me to a tought: did the proliferation of thieves caused the prolification of rangers? Probably a part in truth in it since rangers are the most effective vs thieves. I'm too stubborn to ditch my main just because 1 or 2 class are too OP vs me but I have the same temptation sometimes!

    What proliferation? Seems about the same amount of thieves and rangers out there as any other time. Rangers seem effective against thieves for the same reason everyone else is and that's mostly because thieves are telegraphed (their stealth telegraphs them also). We want to target the ones who looks like they might go down to an opener and probably didn't get a seat on the squad bus for buffs.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    @manu.7539 said:

    Ty! That's the plain reality, finally someone honest! Well, cant expect a thief to be honest... lol, it just doesnt make sense!

    Gratz to mag, finally some people understood that rangers can be great in zerg fights, I totally agree with it :)

    Whoa, whoa, I agreed with nothing.

    Mag has a lot of Rangers because there's a certain guild that often has several, and pugs favor it because it's the safest class to cloud with which is something Mag is infamous for.

    There is no "Ranger and Thief epidemic", though I will agree that at times more people than usual will play certain classes it isn't exclusive to these two. I've seen groups that have an unusually high amount of Revs, Guards, Engis, etc.

    Guardian and Necromancer are the two most prevalent classes in WvW, but the smaller the scale the less common they become and the more common Rangers and Thieves become. Because solo or in groups of 1 - 3 are the only times those two classes are particularly strong.

    [YWY] Weeping Valley //
    My Youtube: Coconut Racecar
    Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    What proliferation? Seems about the same amount of thieves and rangers out there as any other time. Rangers seem effective against thieves for the same reason everyone else is and that's mostly because thieves are telegraphed (their stealth telegraphs them also). We want to target the ones who looks like they might go down to an opener and probably didn't get a seat on the squad bus for buffs.

    I dont have stats about how much every class are used, I dont know if it exist. I play 5-6+ hours EVERY day, I assume that very few players play that much so I honestly think you guys arent playing enough or roaming enough to see the game the way I do. So if you mostly zerging and play 10-20 hours a week you are probably honest with your statements but not necessary accurate!