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Epidemic of rangers and thieves in WvW

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  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    If these are all not melee immob beasts, but pew pew, I don't want to be in that frontline (reflects). Poor reapers....

    If they are immob beasts... yeah that's exactly what's currently wrong with large scale wvw. Immob spam from rangers for days. If you lose connection to the cleanse blob for one second, you die, because instant 10 second immob + cover conditions.

    It's pew pew. Mag has a lot of Ranger mains, and I'm certain the server is an outlier. I have an alt on Anvil Rock and I can feel the difference when against Mag. It's an easy class to cloud with and that's something the server does often, especially in EBG.

    For the record though, that's the most Rangers I've seen in a squad for quite some time, not that they aren't often present but without a squad however. I just had to screencap it because it made me lol.

    [YWY] Weeping Valley //
    My Youtube: Coconut Racecar
    Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Was gonna just say this dude must be up vs mag but it's covered

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2020

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    If these are all not melee immob beasts, but pew pew, I don't want to be in that frontline (reflects). Poor reapers....

    If they are immob beasts... yeah that's exactly what's currently wrong with large scale wvw. Immob spam from rangers for days. If you lose connection to the cleanse blob for one second, you die, because instant 10 second immob + cover conditions.

    It's pew pew. Mag has a lot of Ranger mains, and I'm certain the server is an outlier. I have an alt on Anvil Rock and I can feel the difference when against Mag. It's an easy class to cloud with and that's something the server does often, especially in EBG.

    For the record though, that's the most Rangers I've seen in a squad for quite some time, not that they aren't often present but without a squad however. I just had to screencap it because it made me lol.

    If they were bunker immobbeasts this comp would actually work against most pugs. Pin the pug down with the bunkers and send the glass reapers in.

    But yes, clouding with longbow burstbeast is the easiest thing you can do, if you are a skill clicker. It wouldn't even cause collateral reflect damage.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    What proliferation? Seems about the same amount of thieves and rangers out there as any other time. Rangers seem effective against thieves for the same reason everyone else is and that's mostly because thieves are telegraphed (their stealth telegraphs them also). We want to target the ones who looks like they might go down to an opener and probably didn't get a seat on the squad bus for buffs.

    I dont have stats about how much every class are used, I dont know if it exist. I play 5-6+ hours EVERY day, I assume that very few players play that much so I honestly think you guys arent playing enough or roaming enough to see the game the way I do. So if you mostly zerging and play 10-20 hours a week you are probably honest with your statements but not necessary accurate!

    Or you're remembering what you want to remember. Or of course, everyone isn't playing as much as you and never step out side of safe zergs to see the game through your brave eyes.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    For the record though, that's the most Rangers I've seen in a squad for quite some time, not that they aren't often present but without a squad however. I just had to screencap it because it made me lol.

    Well, you also said "Just an average day on Maguuma" in your 1st comment so.. say whatever you want that please you now I have serious doubts about your good faith in this discussion!

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:
    I main both Sw/D and Sc/F Weaver. Rangers and Thieves are trouble to Ele, but it makes sense. Rangers are great at keeping you at a distance, Sword Weaver has pitiful range and poor gap closers whereas Rangers have good mobility and stealth options. Getting pew pew'd at a distance is frustrating, but you have plenty of ways to avoid the damage. ToF, Earth 2, Water 2, Air 5, Dodge. (EDIT: Not to mention the Barrier base skills as well.) Barrage is a one trick, bait it out and dodge/evade through it (probably should try and wait for the knock back move if they haven't used it yet) then move in. If you are unable to get close, you really need to LoS them right away because LB Rangers will kill you if you aren't in their face.

    Thiefs are another issue. Deadeyes have the advantage against Sword Weavers, range burst + stealth = bad match up for Weaver, best advice is to just run if you can't handle the range pressure. IF you're fighting Core or Daredevil, its really just a battle to see CC them at the right time. A good thief will be able to out kite you as a Sword Weaver without much effort and will normally die if they over extend the battle. But as a Weaver you have plenty of CC to catch thieves in, just save you Pyro Vortex , Flame Uprising, Cauterizing Strike (if you run condi) or Quantum Strike (if you're power-based) for when you catch 'em. Usually that will melt away glass thieves, and glass thieves are the ones that will really pose a danger to Sword Weavers. If they're not glassy, you really shouldn't be taking too much damage.

    Consider using Focus if projectiles are really an issue. Focus is a lot better than Ele's give it credit for in WvW. I just don't use it because I love Riding that Lightening.

    I'm not complaing about eles or espacially sw/d weaver, its great and I love it! Decent sustain, decent damage and nice mobility, cant ask much more except maybe getting back some of the stab that I use to have with my stances then it would be perfect! I can live without stab to be honest but so many cc's and condi condi builds these days without stab its challenging and well challenge is an ele thing for sure, you got to love it if you play ele! ;)

    We're just out of the subject I wanted to talk (again), mostly had opposite statement of mine but good faith is a rarity is this world!

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    OP, I find both classes annoying and unfun to play and play against too since they are so predictably boring. I solo roam as a weaver / dps tempest in WvW, and honestly, thieves and rangers are not a problem to me. 90% of them melt in seconds. If you are killed by thieves and rangers that easily, maybe you should look at the way you play or adjust your build? Just saying.

  • Mitsen.3247Mitsen.3247 Member ✭✭
    edited October 28, 2020

    when the arenas-pvp have to many bots , pvpers come to wvw for more fun...
    thiefs and rangers, mesmers and eles fresh air, are many on wvw and is ok for me, because the roaming is better and we are more people at battlegrounds for now.
    All these are pvp classes , dont blame them man , they cant take an invite in squad.
    If you are in a squad they cant come close and bit you.
    If you are not in a squad, pick a some pvp serius siht and just do it man.

  • If you get dismounted by a player using his own damage spike skills (e.g. Ranger Rapid Fire) then you should have an advantage, because his main damage skill is now on cooldown. Just engage and apply pressure.

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    If these are all not melee immob beasts, but pew pew, I don't want to be in that frontline (reflects). Poor reapers....

    If they are immob beasts... yeah that's exactly what's currently wrong with large scale wvw. Immob spam from rangers for days. If you lose connection to the cleanse blob for one second, you die, because instant 10 second immob + cover conditions.

    I also logged in and saw a comm tag on. Decided to join and then saw this...

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2020

    +10

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110758/but-the-thief-got-away#latest

    (here is a link with beautiful truth very well written post by Subversiontwo. After reading Subsversiontwo, i had deja-vu all over again during Guild Wars 2 beta-2012. I applaud Subversiontwo and many player players including ex-Veteran players who stand up for what is right and defends Truth against Lies and Deceptions)

    -The Truth was told long time ago and no one listened-

    -Thank You! Subversiontwo including others for keeping the Naked Truth Alive and for calling out Toxicity in its True Form-

    (Quote)

    'This is true, at least to some extent. The popular roaming classes all have in common that they can escape when necessary and in relation to some other classes that can be seen as an issue. However, some of that is necessary for outnumbered kiting/roaming to exist. I don't think that is the topic at hand here. The issue with the Thief isn't that it can break combat, that it can ambush or that it has unique cooldowns, teleports or stealth. The problem is the sheer volume on it on the builds now, how it combines and how they can more or less reset at will. Other popular roaming classes can't do anything even remotely similar. That is why you can now see Thieves even troll larger groups that are trying to chase/gank them because they know that they can reset at will so they can just cheekily re-engage to prove that point, over and over. It isn't even escaping anymore it's moving in and out of combat as you please.'

    So, the problem isn't the escape, it's the reset. It is that they can escape and re-engage more or less infinately. It isn't that they can break combat once. It is that they can break combat over and over (yet still control the re-engagement to keep comming back for more like that). That is why so many other players now just wait for th exact moment they break combat, mount up and ride away in the other direction because it at least gives them some distance to crush and an extra health bar that forces some cooldowns and/or blunts the ambush from the Thief if it chooses to flip back on the offensive.

    Mesmers do not have that, Warriors do not have that, Rangers do not have that and Elementalists do not have that. Even though those classes have plenty of ports, breaks and sprints/leaps. So a Warrior may disappear in the distance with a double-sword escape, however, he is not going to turn around, slap you in the face just to flaunt what's broken and then sprint away again indefinately and with impunity. Mesmers can ambush or they can escape but it's often one of either and not a combination, certainly not a combination that persists indefinately. If you survive the first ambush and/or escape of a Mesmer they are often severely weakened if they re-engage, cooldowns burnt etc. Mesmers have traditionally also been rather poor at chasing down opponents that want to escape them (save for the time when sword-leap Mirages were OP and even condi Mirages played sword) so other players certainly don't have to wait for the Mesmer to break combat to get away from them if they want to fight to a standstill or just avoid defensive Mesmer builds like condi tanks.

    So to wrap up yet another round of this silly back and forth, it's a simple balance issue with there just being too much of everything mobility related to the point where the class can engage, disengage and re-engage at will. It's the combination of that which is the problem. This wasn't an issue in vanilla and Thieves were pretty popular and powerful roamers (possibly the best/most popular) already back then. This is a severe case of elite spec and re-trait creep.

    Then as always, smalle scale WvW may not be a focal point for any balance effort but there are also some things that stick out so much that it just becomes ridiculous. It was ridiculous when you had 36/50 Scourges in large scale and the profileration of Thieves at small scale which has gone on for quite some time is definately starting to become quite ridiculous now and is starting to have a rather negative impact on the mode overall. It isn't isolated to some corpserunner getting ganked or some duelist being frustrated by a dishonorable reset anymore.'

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think in NA the WvW scene is very degraded.

    Come to EU, we still have some commanders who run propper squads at least in a couple of servers. I think you will appreciate the change for good.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    it ok, someone should me meat for rangers. They can't be hundry. But at fisrt - this is wvw. No one worry balance 1:1 on wvw. Take any class, any biuld, find party or flob and get fun.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2020

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    If these are all not melee immob beasts, but pew pew, I don't want to be in that frontline (reflects). Poor reapers....

    If they are immob beasts... yeah that's exactly what's currently wrong with large scale wvw. Immob spam from rangers for days. If you lose connection to the cleanse blob for one second, you die, because instant 10 second immob + cover conditions.

    Reflect isnt a boon that can be stacked ad spamed so 99% of the guardians/fb's wont even use it... :dizzy:

    Know how to rotate a simple WoR to avoid spikes ... that's 2025 meta, besides WvW is boon spam and aoe spam most of the time...any class that cant do this will fall into the non meta builds.

    the Immob rangers is somethign that Anet needs to look at... thats for sure.

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    I think in NA the WvW scene is very degraded.

    Come to EU, we still have some commanders who run propper squads at least in a couple of servers. I think you will appreciate the change for good.

    They're complaining about one server that does things differently. NA is still 11/12 traditional stack and spam, AoE cap exploiting meta.

    If gets out of that confort zone where most of those groups only ktrain or fight smaller groups, those groups will QQ alot, or search for another gimmick stacking for performance over skill momentum.
    In in NA its not strange if u find 12-16 FB's in a group of 25-28, rare but still happens, there are groups that in 30ish its mostly scrappers and fb0s and then some scourges and reapers mixed.
    We have here even perma tempest auras lol.....

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    (snip)

    I also logged in and saw a comm tag on. Decided to join and then saw this...

    That poor firebrand.

    The FB is carrying all the team support!!!! :D

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    I think in NA the WvW scene is very degraded.

    Come to EU, we still have some commanders who run propper squads at least in a couple of servers. I think you will appreciate the change for good.

    They're complaining about one server that does things differently. NA is still 11/12 traditional stack and spam, AoE cap exploiting meta.

    True. And it's boring as kitten.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], member of [RaW][TACO][Owls][HELL] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    find party or flob and get fun.

    Not enough flobs these days.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    I roam with Scepter/focus fresh air power tempest, Sword/dagger bunker hybrid Weaver and Sc/Foc or dagger FA core power ele. I also roam with boonbeast (axe/axe and sword or dagger/warhorn) and pew pew LB/GS SB.
    Saying general stuff like ranger counters ele or vice versa is just whatever. Both have so many options that it is impossible to say which is better unless you specify builds. Elementalist especially is a swiss army knife that can be built to counter pretty much anything but also have distinct weaknesses for each build. And yes a sword/dagger weaver will have a hard time closing the gap and actually do some dmg to a LB ranger in an open field.

    Now when we have templates which we can change with a press of a button and we also can change weapons on elementalists out of combat you can usually change your build and gear before the engagement. Sure if you get blindsided by a glassy pew pew ranger you can get downed fast but that counts for pretty much any burst build. And glassy pew pew rangers aren't really good roamers anyway imo. If I had to choose one ranger build for solo or up to 5 man roaming it would not be longbow. For a small squad roaming LB soulbeast is great though.

    Thiefs are just a really annoying bunch. I wouldn't say OP, just really annoying. So I support thief hate.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @Cuks.8241 said:

    You are absolutely right! I never used templates, call me lazy if you want but I'm more an entousiast player than a game mechanic technican! Guess its about time I put some time on it. Ty for reminding me this option! :)

  • @LetoII.3782 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

    Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

    kitten, that's an oof.

    [YWY] Weeping Valley //
    My Youtube: Coconut Racecar
    Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aleron.1438 said:
    How familiar are you with Conjure earth shield Manu?

    Or literally Twist of Fate, offhand focus, and/or the earth trait line.

    Weaver is one of the best classes in the game when it comes to raw sustain into thief and ranger due to its projectile deflection various on-demand forms of damage reduction and healing, optional crit immunity, low-cooldown stability, cleanses, and constant superspeed/in-combat mobility. Even its glassy FA variant oblierates thieves since its burst tracks stealth and spams blinds to prevent backstabs.

    The problem is the disparity between builds and modes is huge. PvE ele is actually straight bad in the PvP modes, possibly one of the worst coherent builds in existence.
    Like yeah if you're hard-camping Air/Fire on S/D with Air/Fire traits and no defenses you're gonna get slammed by roaming classes, but that's the case for nearly every class and build it fights.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2020

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

    Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

    kitten, that's an oof.

    I dont get it?

    Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

    Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

    kitten, that's an oof.

    I dont get it?

    Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?

    Like saying "SMC "walls" reach the spawn area"

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

    Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

    kitten, that's an oof.

    I dont get it?

    Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?

    Like saying "SMC "walls" reach the spawn area"

    What? But they dont? Still missing something.

  • I agree with the OP about those professions, don't let me start on thieves please :D They become untargetable while bursting you down and they can disengage from you with their stealth skills. Next time I want to add a 3rd character to my roaster I can assure you it will be a thief, they are so broken as roamers right now. It's funny to play one but it's the opposite to play against one. They are probably just as good in PvE as well. I can't wait to try one before Anet starts the nerf-train on these two professions

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

    Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

    kitten, that's an oof.

    I dont get it?

    Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?

    Like saying "SMC "walls" reach the spawn area"

    What? But they dont? Still missing something.

    I meant the spawncamping.
    But it seemed crude to point out how often Mag pushes both it's opponents off ebg.. So I dulled the barb with some wordplay.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Andy.5981Andy.5981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Just an average day on Maguuma.

    Technically, that is great, as Maguuma loves to ignore everything but SMC and rangers and necros bombing from SMC's fortified walls is quite effective.

    Weird how the walls of smc extend right up to the feet of the legendary defenders sometimes, eh?

    kitten, that's an oof.

    I dont get it?

    Legendary defenders, SMC? Am I missing something here ?

    Like saying "SMC "walls" reach the spawn area"

    What? But they dont? Still missing something.

    I think what the person who mentioned that the walls of SM extend right up to the feet of legendary defenders was trying to put across was the fact that, contrary to the meme like "pew pew rangers stand on walls all the time", rangers often chase down people right to their spawn points and that they don't just stand on walls.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    OP, the number of thieves and rangers heavily depends what server you're on. In my experience, I run into a lot more rangers than I do thieves unless I'm fighting a server like Gandara or Whiteside Ridge, and even then it's usually the same players in the same guilds. I don't run into many eles, but the ones that counter me tend to be tanky Sc/f builds with lots of projectile hate and heals, and they win because they wear me down rather than burst. Power thief builds in particular don't tend to have much health regen outside of their heals, so they keep track of my stunbreaks and use the 3s knockdown when they know I can't break it to finish the fight.

    I get why it would be frustrating to play against thieves and rangers on a glassy ele build, running into your counter usually is. But the thing to remember is that if thief and ranger weren't played, odds are that mesmer would be the best roamer and that's what you'd be complaining about. There will always be a best in slot class for a particular niche, for roaming it's currently rangers and thieves, for zerging it's necros and guardians etc. You get a few classes like engi that can perform well in both settings, but most do better if they stick to their niche. Ele unfortunately has had it's zerging niche overtaken by power creep on other classes like necro and firebrand, and in small scale ele always did work better as a tanky bruiser spec than a glassy spec. So I get why you'd be frustrated trying to play outside of your niche, but ultimately that's the result of your choice to not play a standard build.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • @kash.9213 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    I agree with the OP about those professions, don't let me start on thieves please :D They become untargetable while bursting you down and they can disengage from you with their stealth skills. Next time I want to add a 3rd character to my roaster I can assure you it will be a thief, they are so broken as roamers right now. It's funny to play one but it's the opposite to play against one. They are probably just as good in PvE as well. I can't wait to try one before Anet starts the nerf-train on these two professions

    You say next time you'll add a thief but you haven't yet despite it being an op class. You're having a hard time with players who picked a class that's telegraphed (stealth indicators are a good way to follow someone)more then the class so people notice them more than everything else on the map consistently nuking them. If you didn't add a thief to your roster before then you must not have had a problem until someone left you salty.

    I am not being salty, I am playing GW2 since last month and rising a character to lvl 80 requires time and efforts, I only made a second character because I had a lvl 80 boost left. It's not easy and it's time consuming to have a lot of characters. Please refrain from writing toxic and antisocial comments when you address new players.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The truth of the matter is, some classes are just more efficient in WvW, and that has relatively little to do with the game, so much as the people playing it.

    Why are Mesmer and Thieves so highly valued ? They prey on human lack of reflexes, by constantly disappearing and teleporting around. The teleporting inside a fortification thing is a nice bonus, but that's not what makes gankers pick that class.

    Why are Scourges such... scourges to any opposing zergs ? Because the basic zerg setup is to buff up before an encounter.

    These are essentially metagaming. They prey on human habits and lack of reflexes. As they should. While the first one isn't something I can actually picture countering, I dont understand why zergs dont immediately ask to stop buffing when they know there are more than 5 scourges in front.

    That doesn't mean everything is balanced, far from it. Thief and Warrior can trump balance entirely by using non stat related damage mitigation for example. I'm sure everyone has had atleast 1 encounter where a thief can manage to sap half of your health within 3 seconds before quickly teleporting and leaving your field of view, stealthing, and coming back to finish the job. Or a warrior that evade/block/invulnerable for 12 seconds straight while you're taking a massive amount of damage and can do none.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    Thiefs and ranger great at roaming so what? their not great in zergs, some classes are bad roamers and great in zergs. All these whiners complaining a roam class picked them off while they were on route to their zerg is like a thief or ranger complaining after they die in a zerg about all the OP zerg classes, rarely happens cuz most teef players accept that their strength is in roaming not in large group fights. I cant believe with war claw around even with its nerfs any competant player would complain about any roaming classes, I think it was better before when it was actually dangerous to run to ur zerg pre warclaw but like the current gw2 trend this games pvp continues to get dumb down and caters more to the casual carebears then players that actually want to improve their skill in the game, no one wants to bother to actually learn to play anymore and just claim any class that downs them a few times OP before they even kno what their doing, sad really.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

    I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

    It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

    +1

    Saerni, what is actually sad is that players are victimizing themselves over a Bad Design that blames them for not trying hard enough

    While Thief Profession is design to be a Toxic Scapegoat Profession to point fingers at other Professions - Harass and Blame them freely for 'ltp', 'dodge'' and ' not trying hard enough', 'its your fault' 'get over it' 'this game is not for you'

    Don't feel sad for Toxicity, Not Ever!!

    This is why Thief Profession is long over-due of serious change and is need to be seriously dealt with, with absolutely with no exceptions as soon as possible. Once after all for Anet to finally put an end of them blaming other Professions for their misfortune and their mishap

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

    I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

    It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

    +1

    Saerni, what is actually sad is that players are victimizing themselves over a Bad Design that blames them for not trying hard enough

    While Thief Profession is design to be a Toxic Scapegoat Profession to point fingers at other Professions - Harass and Blame them freely for 'ltp', 'dodge'' and ' not trying hard enough', 'its your fault'

    Don't feel sad for Toxicity, Not Ever!!

    This is why Thief Profession need to be seriously dealt with as soon as possible and for Anet to finally put an end of them blaming other Professions for their misfortune

    Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I don't see an excessive number of rangers or thieves.

    I see plenty of guardians. A good number of revs. Good number of roaming ele. Oh, necro is somewhat popular in roaming although idk why. Ranger is probably as popular as necro, maybe a bit more. It's in the top 5 but it doesn't stand out. Thief is actually pretty rare. I'll run into a few of them but it's actually 95% other professions even in roaming. It's actually made me sad because I feel like I need extra practice versus thieves because of how rare it is to fight them.

    It's anecdotal. But it reflects my experience roaming across multiple matchups and tiers over the last 3-5 months.

    +1

    Saerni, what is actually sad is that players are victimizing themselves over a Bad Design that blames them for not trying hard enough

    While Thief Profession is design to be a Toxic Scapegoat Profession to point fingers at other Professions - Harass and Blame them freely for 'ltp', 'dodge'' and ' not trying hard enough', 'its your fault'

    Don't feel sad for Toxicity, Not Ever!!

    This is why Thief Profession need to be seriously dealt with as soon as possible and for Anet to finally put an end of them blaming other Professions for their misfortune

    Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

    +1

    you misread my post and rushed and i completely agree with you...i'm on the community side.

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

    I hope you are enjoying Guild Wars 2, its always great to have new players around. Out of curiosity what class are you playing WvW on? Are you roaming solo or to do play mostly in a large zerg?

    While I certainly agree with you that there are mechanics that make the Thief class difficult to battle, I happen think what the other posters are saying also has merit worth considering. The best way to learn how to counter a class would be to spend time playing that class and learning the way it plays. By doing this, you will get a great appreciation for how Thief plays and get into the mind set of a thief, which will help you counter their bursts and stealth. For one, thieves will usually get a lot more aggressive if you are low since their backstabs and heartseakers can hit like a truck, so prepare your own CCs and defensive skills for when you fall below 25% health. Learning to use the terrain is important as thieves have a lot of mobility skills and can move around very easily. When a thief stealths, dont just stand around, start moving so they have a hard time flanking you to strike you with backstab.

    Any class that has access to High Mobility and Stealth will be effective in WvW, its just that Thief has plenty more to go around due to the nature of the class, which is why it can be such a difficult opponent to face in WvW. Knowing what both you and your opponent can and can't do however will be a good step in the right direction for combating them, and thats something that will come only with time and practice. You're fighting with one months experience against players that could have 8+ years of experience on a strong dueling spec. Time and practice are needed as well as game balance.

  • So OP, tell us how your all ranger raid on DB went last night :)

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?