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Epidemic of rangers and thieves in WvW

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  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    I mean, a glass thief can usually escape from large groups of 5 or more pretty easy. Throw on some toughness and vitality armor and yeah, I've seen single daredevils kite an entire zerg before. If a class builds itself to survive, they can survive quiet a lot. It sounds like the person you're referring too was running a build like this. Their whole point is to make sure the waypoint is contested for their server. Most classes can do it, honestly, even without the mobility and stealth.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @lotus.5672 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    I would say they are obvious bad players

    I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

  • 5K conditions per second?

    Come to PvE. We make that look cute.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kills normal?

    this is not about 30 guys having a hard time killing Thief Profession players, it is about playing a game that was supposed to give players freedom to play any way they want and instead having to play a game versus Thief Profession.

    Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be that competitive game to learn, grow and play against other Professions, at a Fair level without having Toxic mechanical design already dictating the winner,

    Instead of using 30 minutes to 1 hour of your quality to have fun, 1 Profession decides that it is 'fun and competitive' by design to take it all away from you at will

    Who is it having the hard time, the one who is design with outmost Priveldge to be Toxic without having any Punishment's whatsoever and get away with it, with Get out of Jail mechanics, skills or the player who want to get the best out of the game and be Punished for not wanting to deal with a Toxic Profession?

    Isn't Learning and Growing part of Competitiveness? Than how does one learn and grown when Toxicity decides to take take it all away freely at will without Consequences?

    'what did you do with your 30 minutes after logging into Guild Wars 2? we were keep being trolled and +1 shorted by Thief Profession so we logged off', 'we were chasing a Thief Profession abusing Stealth for about 15-20 minutes, than later decided to log of'

    (Players time and Enjoyment should be valued and taken into consideration, Not be entrapped, robbed and held hostage by a Profession)

    No!! It Is Not Normal!! Nor Should Be Ever Tolerated!!

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    Lmao 30 vs a thief, I'm sry but most classes can 1v1 a thief with little issue in wvw if they know their class and how thieves work and are more skilled than a thief player, even if 2 players cant down the thief either the thief is far more skilled than both players or those to players are very very unskilled, notice I didn't say bad at the game.
    Who and what players are u playing with where u need a army to down a teef wow lol

    how about 20 versus 1 Thief Profession player?


    (date-what results?)

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    Lmao 30 vs a thief, I'm sry but most classes can 1v1 a thief with little issue in wvw if they know their class and how thieves work and are more skilled than a thief player, even if 2 players cant down the thief either the thief is far more skilled than both players or those to players are very very unskilled, notice I didn't say bad at the game.
    Who and what players are u playing with where u need a army to down a teef wow lol

    how about 20 versus 1 Thief Profession player?


    (date-what results?)

    That's why you don't use an entire horde to catch a permastealth thief. Idk how many times I have to reiterate this but you have to outsmart them because a smart thief isn't going to stick around a whole group that obviously want him dead. Instead of having a whole group have a permastealth thief to get sneak on them with target painters or setup traps using dragonhunters and rangers.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @lotus.5672 said:

    @manu.7539 said:

    @lotus.5672 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    I would say they are obvious bad players

    I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

    all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

    Yes, because shadowstep, dash, signet of agility, facetarget+withdraw, facetarget+death's retreat, infiltrator's arrow, shadow meld, build templates with nomad's gear... don't exist.

    One 6 second reveal counters thief... that's so 2012. A thief has even options, how he wants to survive these 6 seconds.

  • @KrHome.1920 said:

    @lotus.5672 said:

    @manu.7539 said:

    @lotus.5672 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    I would say they are obvious bad players

    I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

    all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

    Yes, because shadowstep, dash, signet of agility, facetarget+withdraw, facetarget+death's retreat, infiltrator's arrow, shadow meld, build templates with nomad's gear... don't exist.

    One 6 second reveal counters thief... that's so 2012. A thief has even options, how he wants to survive these 6 seconds.

    If he wastes all those cooldowns to run away how can he hurt you and your 30 buddies

  • lotus.5672lotus.5672 Member ✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    double post

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lotus.5672 said:
    If he wastes all those cooldowns to run away how can he hurt you and your 30 buddies

    Thief's gonna solo the SMC Lord one 1k attack at a time.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    @lotus.5672 said:
    all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

    Yeah I know rangers vs thief is great, I said there was an epidemic of thieves and rangers and I still see the same thing but I wonder if all these thieves encouraged thieve-haters (count me in*) to play ranger?

    *Btw I dont hate the thief players but the class, I'm sorry if your main is thief, it must be annoying to be the target of so many criticisms. :/

  • @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Stop claiming that it's all a L2P issue here, thieves can burst you down while being untargetable, same thing Rangers with smokescales as pets. You can't avoid their damage, even if you hit dodge you take a lot of burst damage and then you are dead. It's toxic to claim this is a L2P issue and blame players who complain with GIT GUD and all that, please stop with this attitude. Mechanics which make a player's character untargetable should be removed as they are unfair and offer no counterplay.

    I hope you are enjoying Guild Wars 2, its always great to have new players around. Out of curiosity what class are you playing WvW on? Are you roaming solo or to do play mostly in a large zerg?

    While I certainly agree with you that there are mechanics that make the Thief class difficult to battle, I happen think what the other posters are saying also has merit worth considering. The best way to learn how to counter a class would be to spend time playing that class and learning the way it plays. By doing this, you will get a great appreciation for how Thief plays and get into the mind set of a thief, which will help you counter their bursts and stealth. For one, thieves will usually get a lot more aggressive if you are low since their backstabs and heartseakers can hit like a truck, so prepare your own CCs and defensive skills for when you fall below 25% health. Learning to use the terrain is important as thieves have a lot of mobility skills and can move around very easily. When a thief stealths, dont just stand around, start moving so they have a hard time flanking you to strike you with backstab.

    Any class that has access to High Mobility and Stealth will be effective in WvW, its just that Thief has plenty more to go around due to the nature of the class, which is why it can be such a difficult opponent to face in WvW. Knowing what both you and your opponent can and can't do however will be a good step in the right direction for combating them, and thats something that will come only with time and practice. You're fighting with one months experience against players that could have 8+ years of experience on a strong dueling spec. Time and practice are needed as well as game balance.

    Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

    I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

    Regards

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2020

    @lotus.5672 said:

    @manu.7539 said:

    @lotus.5672 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    I would say they are obvious bad players

    I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

    all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

    Yup,but people like to pretend its not the case. Because thieves have an unlimited amount of dodges,unlimited amount of init,and an unlimited amount of ports.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    Lmao 30 vs a thief, I'm sry but most classes can 1v1 a thief with little issue in wvw if they know their class and how thieves work and are more skilled than a thief player, even if 2 players cant down the thief either the thief is far more skilled than both players or those to players are very very unskilled, notice I didn't say bad at the game.
    Who and what players are u playing with where u need a army to down a teef wow lol

    how about 20 versus 1 Thief Profession player?


    (date-what results?)

    And none of them have the brain to use the two types of stealth traps available nor able to land any of the many reveals available. This just shows how bad people are and dont know what to do yet ask for nerfs. And that's why Anet should take these posts with a grain of salt considering who the players are that are asking for the nerfs,no matter how neatly they presented it. If you play like this,im sorry but you deserve to be outplayed.

    If theres a thief hiding in your keep or tower,you will resort to stealth traps and the throwable trap.
    Get out of combat and slot reveal skills,there are several Aoe non target reveals ingame which are easy to land
    Spamm immob and condis on him when visible.
    Play agressive but play smart,a good thief is difficult to deal with
    Throw aoe's on his p5 if you see any pop up.
    Take note of where he used his shadow step,its a white ring,will be porting back usually close to the area of it being used.
    Land reveal on him right away when visible,when youre on ranger use quickness + immob + rapid fire which is a pain for them since the projectiles follow through stealth and he will prob have to waste 2 utils aswell.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @lotus.5672 said:
    all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

    Yup,but people like to pretend its not the case. Because thieves have an unlimited amount of dodges,unlimited amount of init,and an unilimited amount of ports.

    Right, many are talking about how easy they kill rangers and thieves, I guess we all do kill alot of them since they are so many but the ability of killing newbie with these class (and they are many) doesnt mean the class isnt toxic once its mastered.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @manu.7539 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @lotus.5672 said:
    all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

    Yup,but people like to pretend its not the case. Because thieves have an unlimited amount of dodges,unlimited amount of init,and an unilimited amount of ports.

    Right, many are talking about how easy they kill rangers and thieves, I guess we all do kill alot of them since they are so many but the ability of killing newbie with these class (and they are many) doesnt mean the class isnt toxic once its mastered.

    Anyone can kill a "newbie" with any class. The class isnt toxic by design,stealth maybe is. It just shines in the hands of people that know how to play. And those would kill you on any class tbh. No matter if you people want to accept it or not,thief is still one of the hardest specs to master. There are no fail safe invulns or blocks. The ports and stealth Is our defense.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    I should had I started this discussion because I'm afraid of what wvw will look like when all these newbies will master their class :anguished:

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @manu.7539 said:
    I should had I started this discussion because I'm afraid of what wvw will look like when all these newbies will master their class :anguished:

    They wont,cus as i said. Its not easy,atleast not as easy as most people never having touched thief think it is. Most newbies trying thief relying on dp stabs being blown up by random aoe's while their stab is being blocked or missed will quickly move on to another spec with fail safe buttons .

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!
    For Ascalon!

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @manu.7539 said:
    I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!
    For Ascalon!

    You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

    But to tbh

    Thief > Thief
    Ranger > Thief
    Rev > Thief

    Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

    I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

    Regards

    I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

    Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

    Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

    I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

    I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

    Regards

    I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

    Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

    Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

    I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

    You will soon realize that the thief isnt toxic. He runs what he runs to avoid the ganks mostly that will otherwise happen on a non stealth spec when you solo roam. It just saves for a Whole lot of annoyance.

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭

    You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

    But to tbh

    Thief > Thief
    Ranger > Thief
    Rev > Thief

    Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

    Well, you may have any good counter build and master it, a thief that smell the trouble can easily run away, most class cant run away so easily from a thief, not at all! Same vs rangers. I didnt really care when they were a few out there but these days, seriously, I must stop solo roaming in a ppt purpose because whatever map I roam I meet these 2 class of roamers so often its making the game boring. Hunting thieves will be much funnier!

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:

    You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

    But to tbh

    Thief > Thief
    Ranger > Thief
    Rev > Thief

    Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

    Well, you may have any good counter build and master it, a thief that smell the trouble can easily run away, most class cant run away so easily from a thief, not at all! Same vs rangers. I didnt really care when they were a few out there but these days, seriously, I must stop solo roaming in a ppt purpose because whatever map I roam I meet these 2 class of roamers so often its making the game boring. Hunting thieves will be much funnier!

    I play thief,and i know how to counter a thief thats the thing. Play the class yourself so you know about init uses,survival and shadow steps etc. And realize they will die in 3 hits. If you know how to play a thief,you can counter them.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @manu.7539 said:

    You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

    But to tbh

    Thief > Thief
    Ranger > Thief
    Rev > Thief

    Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

    Well, you may have any good counter build and master it, a thief that smell the trouble can easily run away, most class cant run away so easily from a thief, not at all! Same vs rangers. I didnt really care when they were a few out there but these days, seriously, I must stop solo roaming in a ppt purpose because whatever map I roam I meet these 2 class of roamers so often its making the game boring. Hunting thieves will be much funnier!

    Regardless of what class you play you have to budget with your skill and utility slots and whatever your resources are like Initiative because while you want to catch some bodies you also have to anticipate getting pulled in close or locked down hard suddenly. It wont be a waste of time to casually float around and mostly watch people fighting sometimes and not even engage. You can target different people and see how they behave and react in their role in whatever scale group they're in. Between that and checking out your combat log while you can still picture a fight you just had you might feel what people are plotting sooner and you can move and position or set up something without spending your most of your budget on flak. Sometimes when I get outplayed it's because they pressured me into panic spending even when I'm telling myself to stop panicking and focus on what their system is.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • Andy.5981Andy.5981 Member ✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:
    I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!
    For Ascalon!

    Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

    I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    I was playing with my guild the other day in SM outer when a deadeye downed my guildie in the distance. I try to interrupt the stomp but get there a little too late, so when I see the deadeye marked me I place smokescreen, stand still and wait for the "miss" notification to pop up. As soon as it does, I vault in place for stealth, turn my camera 180 degrees and use the staff sneak attack to knock down the deadeye. I know it connects as I get revealed, so I auto spam with quickness. The deadeye pops out of stealth downed, then immediately alt F4's. I laughed.

    Thief is really, really easy to deal with if you know the builds they use and how they attack, just like any class. Thing is, most players cannot be bothered to learn how to do it, and so this conversation goes round and round indefinitely.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

    I mean, a glass thief can usually escape from large groups of 5 or more pretty easy. Throw on some toughness and vitality armor and yeah, I've seen single daredevils kite an entire zerg before. If a class builds itself to survive, they can survive quiet a lot. It sounds like the person you're referring too was running a build like this. Their whole point is to make sure the waypoint is contested for their server. Most classes can do it, honestly, even without the mobility and stealth.

    if u try chase a DrD who didnt attack any1 yet (meaning with no CDs yet) then ur whole blob is mentally not gucci.
    the DrD on other hand is kiting u all untill most turn around and will wreck every single person who falls behind cus no1 is build to deal with him.

    see he cant deal with blob
    blob players cant deal with roamers
    its simply a build issue..

    so u blame x class / build for being around alot in roaming scene while x class / build has no place in a blob
    u see all roaming people who have no place in blob fights could say
    well guardians and necro's have been in blob fights since day one wouldnt it be time to nerf them?
    i mean why not? cus they are obviously better then other classes at it so they should be nerfed so maybe a heal druid could take over Guardians role and deadeye/daredevil could do the boons/aoe dmg from necro
    sounds like a solid plan no?
    no? exactly why crying about thief/ranger in roaming scene is not a solid plan either.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Andy.5981 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!
    For Ascalon!

    Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

    I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

    hmm thief vs ranger xD

    u know there is more then just d/p thief right? it doesnt really matter to in open field ranger doesnt stand much of a chance vs thief but okay if u think so ;)
    ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside tower

    i mean i know ranger sounds easy and it might be if ur such a fool to die to one constantly but when u face somewhat better player ull see ranger isnt all about pew pew longbow fun.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @manu.7539 said:

    You could have also responded in a more serious way but ok,for Ascalon it is !

    But to tbh

    Thief > Thief
    Ranger > Thief
    Rev > Thief

    Doesnt mean other classes cant cus warri has multiple reveals available,and nec has a reveal aswell,while dh has one too. Thieves Do have counters,people just need to use them.

    Well, you may have any good counter build and master it, a thief that smell the trouble can easily run away, most class cant run away so easily from a thief, not at all! Same vs rangers. I didnt really care when they were a few out there but these days, seriously, I must stop solo roaming in a ppt purpose because whatever map I roam I meet these 2 class of roamers so often its making the game boring. Hunting thieves will be much funnier!

    As for your comment about meeting two roamers, you shouldn't expect to win against two of any class. Period. If you do it's more a reflection on their lack of skill than anything. If I see there's two thieves engaging me, then unless I'm confident that I can put one down in a few seconds before the other can react, I make for the nearest tower. As should you. In the same way that if you face a server that constantly has an 80 man blob, it means you're going to have a hard time if you insist on pushing them with your 40 man group; if you're playing a server that is good at cloud tactics, and full of experienced roamers that know how to stagger bursts with each other to minimise the chance of you recovering, then you can't expect to roam freely on their maps. I have a minstrel permastealth deadeye build for two reasons; firstly for scouting the movements of the enemy group when I'm playing with my guild, and secondly because servers like Gandara are freaking good at focussing down individual players.

    The main reason classes like thief and ranger are meta for roaming currently is because they can deal with groups of players mounted on warclaw. Thief can dismount and spike someone easily, and it can outrun a mounted player in most cases. A ranger can either build to dismount someone easily, or be so ridiculously tanky that it doesn't matter if people use warclaw to keep them in combat, because they never get low enough on health for it to matter. If your ele build can neither dismount someone nor deal with the pressure of one or two guys attacking you while others use warclaw to keep you in combat, then it's not going to cut it in outnumbered situations (which is most of your fights when roaming solo). If you are struggling, you need to either change your build (there is a reason that most roaming eles play with "never die" levels of sustain), get a group to roam with, or improve your play and accept that getting ganked is an occupational hazard for a glassy build. Because realistically, while I get the need to vent when something frustrates you, blaming the other guy for your failure is the primary reason you will fail to get better. Change your mindset, improve your game.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Andy.5981Andy.5981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @Andy.5981 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!
    For Ascalon!

    Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

    I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

    hmm thief vs ranger xD

    u know there is more then just d/p thief right? it doesnt really matter to in open field ranger doesnt stand much of a chance vs thief but okay if u think so ;)
    ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside tower

    i mean i know ranger sounds easy and it might be if ur such a fool to die to one constantly but when u face somewhat better player ull see ranger isnt all about pew pew longbow fun.

    I main a Ranger. Clearly the sarcasm in my post was lost on you.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @Andy.5981 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!
    For Ascalon!

    Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

    I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

    hmm thief vs ranger xD

    u know there is more then just d/p thief right? it doesnt really matter to in open field ranger doesnt stand much of a chance vs thief but okay if u think so ;)
    ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside tower

    i mean i know ranger sounds easy and it might be if ur such a fool to die to one constantly but when u face somewhat better player ull see ranger isnt all about pew pew longbow fun.

    I think that was his point ;)

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • manu.7539manu.7539 Member ✭✭
    edited November 1, 2020

    @Andy.5981 said:

    @manu.7539 said:
    I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!
    For Ascalon!

    Please come back in a few months once you have mastered this "easy class to learn" and let us know how you got on. Please let us know which classes killed you as a Ranger and also which classes you were unable to kill.

    I look forward to this with some popcorn :)

    I already tried my ranger and its not that new for me, went on it this morning, the easy damage is there for sure, no need of combo and blast to finally hit for 3k damage (with some luck), definitely easier. Try sword/dagger weaver then tell me ranger class isnt easy lol

    Dismounted peoples on my feet 4-5 times, more in a day than in a year with my ele! Most of all, I'm hitting thieves and they cant run away so easily :bleep_bloop:

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    @reddie.5861 said:
    ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside tower

    Ranger isn't easy to learn for a player, that does not know what its skills and traits do. Everyone else just notices, that ranger can have an answer to everything, that can go wrong in one build. The rest is basic game knowledge and muscle memory.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    /doublepost for whatever reason

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:
    ranger isnt a easy class to learn unless u mean huehue i use sic em, quickening zephyr, one wolf pack pew pew pew ye works great from tower wall outside tower

    Ranger isn't easy to learn for a player, that does not know what its skills and traits do. Everyone else just notices, that ranger can have an answer to everything, that can go wrong in one build. The rest is basic game knowledge and muscle memory.

    ranger that is pure pew pew barely has cleanses
    ranger that has ton of cleanses doesnt have huge dmg
    ranger really doesnt have answer to everything but in WvW where majority of people think they can run in 1 straight line to their enemy, yes then ranger has answer to most people..

    tbh when u run into any given class it doesnt mean u have to fight on spot where u ran into each other. u could simply kite him to spot that favors u if he doesnt like it he will leave if not u can turn the fight into ur favor.
    i mean i have played s/d thief vs core necro in open i cant really do much i took the guy to hilek camp in ebg and just constantly ported tru the walls if he wanted to come to me he would have had to run all the way around giving me load of time to move away anyway and if i want to go to him all i had to do was shadow step on his kitten and port back when i need to.
    same can be done with ranger use trees i dunno force him to leave you or come closer.

    ofcourse certain classes will not have what it takes to kill ranger.
    but if im on my thief and i force a ranger to come close to me his chance to win that fight is quite low and chance that he can run off ditching the fight is even lower
    i think same goes for mesmer with all projectile hate that class has and ones ur close to mesmer i doubt the ranger can just run off

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @manu.7539 said:
    The most used class (at least in T1) these days are probably thieves and rangers. There's some good reasons for that.. rangers can dismount you with a rapid fire then kil u like a sitting duck in few seconds, if u dont believe it just try sw/d weaver.. it happens to me quite often! Thieves.. are thieves, no need to explain how annoying they are! ANET devs must be aware of all that but they obviously doesnt care! How did they manage to build such a nice game but then ruined it with such a bad balance! Money talk I guess, I dont feel like ANET is worthy of my money anymore! Why should I care for a company who doesnt care about their custumers?!?

    I won't question what you are seeing, but I would ask, is this because of T1. I can only speak for my server, but it seems when we move up we draw more players, the more we fall the less. In general this would also make sense since higher populations probably means you have more of your base online and playing and your potential to win increases due to coverage., therefore up you go.That also may mean more people in squads. Squads reject rangers in a lot of cases. That means they are going to be soloing more, where as in lower tiers they might be in those squads and there are less roaming. Thieves close to the same. Some tags if they can't fill with what they want will try and pull in the roaming classes which pulls them away from the spots they might roam so you see less of them.

    Right now with our pairing we have been in lower tiers and would say seeing less rangers and thieves and more everyone else, but there are also less squads running around. So is the pop up or the environment different. Since ANet doesn't release stats on a regular basis can't tell. But if asked the same question I would say the ranger and thief populations seem to be in decline. So again, your mileage will vary. Good hunting!

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/Civ6/CU/AoC/NW

  • sooo because people have a higher preference in a class to play it just means game = bad??? Classes shouldn't be nerfed/buffed on how popular they are.
    on top of that you are playing a weaver, it's kind of expected those classes are going to tear you up.
    If you can't beat it, join it.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

    I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

    Regards

    I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

    Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

    Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

    I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

    'Guild Wars 2 | New player tries Condi Thief PvP'

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Whatever, ppl will always jump on the most broken stuff...
    If A-net had decided to nerf rangers and teefs then something else would come out and people would run it like again condi mesmer or some other dragonhunter or other rev...
    Waste of time to even bother with this game anymore, even more if devs focus on next e-speces even though they didn't balance core/hot/pof yet...

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

    I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

    Regards

    I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

    Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

    Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

    I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

    'Guild Wars 2 | New player tries Condi Thief PvP'

    Lol if I wanted I could make a montage of killing unranked boys with my condi weaver too, let's be serious now. Condi thieves are difficult if you can clear through their first burst they usually cant handle long term pressure. Tbh this video just speaks more to how Condi is over performing in this meta. And that sPvP and WvW are balanced differently.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Thank you for your kind reply, I currently play a Weaver Elementalist in WvW, however profession is not relevant when talking about mechanics. I have had plenty of experience dealing with the Smokescale's assault and watching my HP bar going drastically down with 1 burst attack and target break. This is a very toxic mechanic I have seen in other games and no matter how good you are capable to talk about it I will always advice developers to avoid this mechanic and to rework it in order to offer some counterplay.

    I can assure you I will never change my mind about target break abilities.

    Regards

    I would disagree. Profession is important to discuss as certain classes will be countered by others. Elementalist was designed to be weak to burst damage, the developers have commented on this in the past. It has the lowest armor rating and lowest HP pool coupled with the lack of any stealth revealing skill. Elementalist is not a bruiser class that is meant to be able to soak up damage, even as a Weaver. Its a sustain based class, it stays alive over long periods of time by retaining its HP through heals, boons, heavy access to vigor for multiple dodges, and in Weavers case, barrier. I've mained elementalist since the games launch, so I am speaking from experience here. Ranger's smokescale is strong, yes, but you have plenty of ways to defend against it. I posted earlier this thread a list of evades Weaver has access too on Sword. But if you're running staff and playing with zergs, then yes of course you're going to eat it when you're attacked by these classes, they are literally built to take out squishy targets like Weaver. In those situations you need to learn your positioning and how to kite around, using the terrain to LoS the enemies. If range pressure is really causing you trouble, grab Focus, it can literally shut down rangers strongest moves. Since Elementalist doesn't have access to reveal skills, consider picking up some Target Marker traps or do one of the following: 1) If they are stealth and are using ranged, LoS immediately and watch for the first sign of incoming damage. When you see it coming, use one of your evades to avoid most of the damage, then begin to assault. 2) If they stealth and are using melee, prepare to use your skills that mostly effect short range AoE (Flame Uprising, Earthen Vortex, Lava Skin, Earthquake) so you can catch them when they get out of stealth.

    Practice will make perfect. Learn your match ups. You've chosen to main one of the hardest, if not THE hardest class in PvP game modes. It will take time to get used to it, but I promise these skills are not as terrible as they may seem right now. Should they be balanced a bit more? Probably. But it will get easier as you play more.

    Fun fact: Did you know that Elementalists is one of the classes have natural access to Stealth? =) It's just never useful since its underwater. Ahaha

    I am ok with the fact that highly skilled players should feel rewarded playing a profession with the highest skill ceiling in the game, I know Elementalists have a stealth spell, it comes from the trident but since going underwater is not practical in WvW because there is a lack of water in Conquest maps I wouldn't even contemplate it. I like playing a build that requires hard work in order to feel rewarding, that is why I don't play my Dragonhunter Guardian anymore. Weaver feels rewarding once you gear up properly and master a stall build but that is not how squad fights work. I am aware I have to play a squishy squad build in Conquest when I am not roaming. I am very impressed with the Thief's roaming potential that I am thinking of adding one to my roster. I doubt Anet is going to nerf the current toxic meta so in order to learn how to deal with one I have to play one.

    'Guild Wars 2 | New player tries Condi Thief PvP'

    Lol if I wanted I could make a montage of killing unranked boys with my condi weaver too, let's be serious now. Condi thieves are difficult if you can clear through their first burst they usually cant handle long term pressure. Tbh this video just speaks more to how Condi is over performing in this meta. And that sPvP and WvW are balanced differently.

    +1

    You are correct that Conditions are Toxic in this meta but there is an underlying issue when it comes to Toxicity/Toxic Meta in itself especially when it has been present since Guild Wars 2 beta until this day= Thief Profession

    Thief Profession has been Toxic since Guild Wars 2 release and has been excused from any serious nerfs whereas other Professions since Guild Wars 2 beta has gone through many serious nerfs including conditions.

    Even Condition Mesmer Profession has long gone through many nerfs since Guild Wars 2 beta and has been the scapegoat for Condition Thief Profession

    (In other word, it is Mesmer Profession fault for Thief Profession Toxicity including all other Professions, so Blame them instead for all Toxic meta's including , taking away their Perma-dodge/evade because they're the only Profession who can do it)

    WHERE IS THIEF PROFESSION 1 DODGE CONSEQUENCE TOO?!!

    HOW DOES A DPS PROFESSION ROLE HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAP INTO A CONDITON BASE ROLE PROFESSION- NECROMANCER CONDITIONS AND EXCELL IN IT, BETTER THEVEN AN ITS HOLDER??!!

    WHERE ARE NECROMANCER PROFESSION CONDITIONS?!!

    Let us be serious here, isn't dealing with the root cause and removing its influences is the right approach in dealing with Toxicity?

    So why 1 Profession is freely allowed and permitted to continue to be Excused, Destructive and Blameless when it comes to serious nerfs since Guild Wars 2 beta?

    WHY IS MESMER PROFESSION BEING BLAMED, USED AS ITS SCAPEGOAT INSTEAD OF TACKLING WITH THE ROOT CAUSE OF ENDLESS PROFESSIONS TOXICITY?!!

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/81212/nerf-the-mesmers-for-the-love-of-pvp/p3

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:
    Tbh this video just speaks more to how Condi is over performing in this meta.

    If condi is over performing we would see all condi everywhere on random classes with random builds.

    Yet we see specific classes and specific builds mentioned every time it's brought up.

    Weird.

    I mean...

    Is poison warrior overperforming?

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    Perhaps one simpler way of making thief a more challenging class to play would be to remove the initiative system and impose cool downs on their skills. Right now it’s way too forgiving as thieves can withdraw from combat as they please, with near-infinite dodges.

    It’s not so much the stealth that’s a problem. It’s rather annoying, but can be countered. Condis are excellent against enemies who use stealth. It’s as easy as that.

    What is hard to counter is the constant step-in-step-out of combat that’s completely out of hand. I know, as I have a thief, and it really doesn’t require much to best someone. It’s funny how those types of core thieves think themselves skilled when in reality it requires little effort to play the specialisation right. That’s not to say Thief doesn’t require mastery, surely it does, as does everything, but the initiative system makes it extremely elusive through spammable skills and on top of that they have boosted Vigor. This just doesn’t make it balanced.

    There should be a way to convert Thief from forgiving to challenging and perhaps my initial thought of removing initiative could accomplish that, or at least add a cool down to each teleport, like with the exhaustion after DD dodge (say, at least 10s after skill 2 on sword), so that they can’t just bounce between locations like crazy but have to time their actions carefully.

    The matter of right and wrong is an endless debate. Take BDO e.g. and their gimmicky movement that’s also just way out of hand, at least in my view, but I can see why some people may like it.

    There’s no way to appease everyone.

    Every transfer delays alliances.