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Icebrood Saga: Champions (spoilers)

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well get your destroyer killing boots on, we are going after Primordus!

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunately. I do hope there is some kind of twist ending, and Primordus ends up living past this.

    Trying to jam two dragons into one arm would be like if HoT switched from Mordremoth to Bubbles in Tangled Depths and Dragon's Stand.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sadly, there seems to be no new map.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    Unfortunately. I do hope there is some kind of twist ending, and Primordus ends up living past this.

    Trying to jam two dragons into one arm would be like if HoT switched from Mordremoth to Bubbles in Tangled Depths and Dragon's Stand.

    Perhaps but still too early to determine if this is possible or not yet.

    For all we know they may end up killing both Primodus, Jormag, and even Bubbles at the end of this Saga for all we know just to introduce the beginning of a new antagonist that may replace the Elder Dragons for a new story Arc set after the Elder Dragon story Arc ends.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:
    For all we know they may end up killing both Primodus, Jormag, and even Bubbles at the end of this Saga for all we know just to introduce the beginning of a new antagonist that may replace the Elder Dragons for a new story Arc set after the Elder Dragon story Arc ends.

    I certainly hope, they won't do that.
    Four episodes simply aren't enough build up for two dragons (Primordus and Selbbub),
    especially if we haven't even seen minions of one of them yet.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:
    For all we know they may end up killing both Primodus, Jormag, and even Bubbles at the end of this Saga for all we know just to introduce the beginning of a new antagonist that may replace the Elder Dragons for a new story Arc set after the Elder Dragon story Arc ends.

    I certainly hope, they won't do that.
    Four episodes simply aren't enough build up for two dragons (Primordus and Selbbub),
    especially if we haven't even seen minions of one of them yet.

    Well depend on the story after since even if they killed off Bubbles early, they may go done the story path of knowing Bubbles more through his/her past actions before that moment of death as part of End of Dragon's storyline to reflect and add on more towards the title's meaning to shows Bubble's path to his/her own end that we already seen. Some stories do go down this path with characters in their stories as it becomes a way to know about a character without actually needing the character to be alive to know them. It may leave a deep regret of never getting the chance to know Bubbles directly if he/she turns out to be a decent being but that is part of how this type of story telling works. To grow towards liking a character even when we know they will never see the future that their own actions leads into after their death nor live to see the end they died to create.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2020

    @Kossage.9072 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Technically, we did kill all the branded (well, Aurene did), and the narrative did cover the direction of new Elona's beginnings (though the Commander explicitly said they don't want to get involved). While narratives "rarely stick around" we always get footnotes on aftermaths - like Lord Faren taking over the Beetletun estates, Minister Wi becoming the new Legate Minister, and Valette taking Canach's place from the aftermath of S3's plots. We even got to see post-Zhaitan Orr both in the immediate and eventual. Rox even told us how the mordrem are reacting and we got to meet with a sylvari who was Mordrem Guard. Incidentally, most loose threads fall on the footnote we never got throughout all of HoT: the Dream.

    I'm not sure if the Branded are fully gone yet. The statements about the "last" Branded that Ryland and his warband fought during the rally was just a ritualistic phrase so the charr could feel catharsis in their war against the dragon minions while celebrating Kralkatorrik's death. Given that more Branded devourers erupted from the ground during the battle, it suggests several Branded might still be lurking about.

    Bangar wouldn't be capable of making that claim unless most Branded are gone. Every single one? No. As evidenced by that later achievement you point out. But enough branded must be gone in order to be able to proclaim the end of the enemy. If there were still a dozen thousand branded scattered across the Dragonbrand, then proclaiming "this is the last one" is the worst catharsis move ever, but if there were only a dozen pockets of a few branded, then it'd still work "oh, look, we missed one after all".

    And there's the fact that Aurene was actively hunting down the branded and cleansing the dragonbrand. Which ultimately means that it was a plot thread that got carried up after the plot had ended, regardless of its absolute truth.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    There's still quite a lot of loose threads with the sylvari storyline.

    I would debate that. Yes there is Malyck, but I don't see them doing a "how did either tree become purified" stroyline. The trees were planted, and grew, outside of the range of Mordremoth's mental enslavement. They were never corrupted to need purification in the first place.

    Was never arguing we'd have a storyline dedicated to that question, was just pointing out that there are a number of loose threads.

    Also, "outside of the range of 's mental enslavement" is a thing proven time and time again to be a thing that simply does not exist. There is no range, because either you're enslaved, or you're not. We see icebrood in Metrica and destroyers in Ascalon, we see risen created in Ascalon and in northern Kryta.

    And for a direct comparison: a seed in Ascalon becomes very much hostile mordrem. Only after being fed exotic and divine-originating magic does it act a bit kinder.

    Besides, to quote the Complete Art of Guild Wars, page 158:

    Before Mordremoth's onslaught, the world didn't know that the Pale Tree was once a sapling of the Elder Dragon. She was purified, somehow, and is remarkably benevolent. She sought to protect her young from the grasp of her maker, and so she kept the sylvari ignorant of their origin.

    Technically, we did kill all the branded (well, Aurene did),

    There is that achievement in Bound by Blood that shows theres still many Branded left underground, and people are building thumpers to draw them out. They just got most of the ones on the surface.

    See my response above to Kossage.

    TL;DR - the fact it gets brought back, and how, after that storyline has ended, is counter to you saying "Narratives rarely stick around to see the absolute end." while using the branded as an example of a narrative not sticking around to see the absolute end - but it is, in fact, an example of a narrative sticking around to see that absolute end after all.

    but the Pale Tree being called "a sapling of Mordremoth" does give enough reason to return to her

    Sure, but thats a different plot then the "the Pale Tree is injured" plotline I was responding too previously.

    And I never said otherwise. I was establishing there were many loose threads which could be brought up. And quite frankly, bringing the Pale Tree into the plot for any reason will be forced to directly, and swiftly, deal with the injury and recovery of the Pale Tree. Even if the full form of that is "with so many years passed, the Pale Tree is now fully recovered, let's go talk to her about xyz and spend a full chapter about xyz and not the Pale Tree's injuries".

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.