Imperator Crecia? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Imperator Crecia?

Biziut.3594Biziut.3594 Member ✭✭
edited October 28, 2020 in Lore

So, in latest "chatting with Bangar" achivment part, Crecia is trying to communicate with Jormag and she introduces herself as Imperator Crecia Stoneglow. As far as i know only decendants of the original Khan-Ur's Blood Legion cub can take the seat of Blood Legion imperator. So can it be Crecia is related to Bangar bloodline somehow, or there are no releatives left to take this position traditionally, or charrs suddenly do not care about the tradition anymore, or this is just a plot hole? What are your thoughts?

“I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.” ~ John Lennon.

Comments

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2020

    Imperator.

    I noticed that as well, and no one is certain if its just a formal way for Crecia to tell jormag she's the actual representative of Blood Legion, or if its already set in stone and she is definitely the new Blood Legion Imperator which leads into a big plot hole because it feels like that decision was made from overnight.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • I really hope A-Net will straighten this up. We already have way too many plot holes in the game. (Yes looking at you Malyck)

    “I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.” ~ John Lennon.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Yeah, looks like ANet's full out retconned those two paragraphs of The Ecology of the Charr about imperatorship and the primus warbands of the High Legions. Another victim to the "post-HoT writing team ignoring small pieces of pre-S3 lore". It really does feel like, ever since Season 3, ANet stopped caring about the fine details and are constantly redefining things.

    Given that you only have to go back a few generations to relate most people on earth in some way, by this point in time, every Charr that lives likely could claim the honor of being directly related to the Khan-Ur.

  • @Wolfb.7025 said:
    Imperator.

    Thanks, thats how it ends when you are cooking and writing on a forym at once. ^^

    “I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.” ~ John Lennon.

  • Kossage.9072Kossage.9072 Member ✭✭✭

    I find this development interesting as the writers mentioned in guild chat that we'd be exploring Crecia's struggles to become imperator in the future. Apparently promotion to imperator wouldn't be as straightforward as becoming tribune (unless one counts Bangar's suggestion to Rytlock to kill him, but we've yet to learn if Rytlock is in fact Bangar's son and thus his direct descendant if that's what they've been hinting at since Bound by Blood).

    Sadly we haven't seen any other Blood tribunes beyond Crecia, Rytlock, and Fierhan Sparwind. We don't know if Fierhan either stayed in the Black Citadel or traveled to the Blood Legion Homelands, and if he, as a Blood loyalist, would side with Bangar's Dominion or actually sided with Crecia's rebellion. If he chose Crecia over Bangar, however, I'd like to hear his thoughts on the matter and why he, as old school charr, decided to go against the wishes of his imperator.

    It's possible that the other Blood tribunes (there should at least be three more as per lore, but there could even be more of them out there) sided with Bangar and died during the civil war, leaving a power vacuum depending on if a primus centurion is automatically promoted to tribune or if there's competition among centurions who gets to take over for any of the tribunes who have fallen. In any case, Crecia would likely have at least Rytlock's support to become imperator, and if Fierhan, for whatever reason, decided to also support Crecia, that'd mean three tribunes siding with her. We've yet to see other members of the Stone Warband who are said to also have high positions in Blood Legion, so I wonder how much they contributed to Crecia's ascendancy and if we'll finally meet them in game.

    Perhaps the upcoming "Truce" chapter will also touch a bit on Crecia's, Mia Kindleshot's (or Fume Brighteye's) and Efram's struggles for becoming imperators as each candidate should realistically be contested by their fellow tribunes (several for Crecia unless she somehow wins them over without a struggle; at least Fume Brighteye who wouldn't let Mia take the Iron throne without a fight as per lore; and potential surviving Flame tribunes and hierophant, such as Crecia's evil shaman sire if he still lives, for Efram) regardless of if the old semicanonical rule of imperators being descendants of the Khan-Ur still applies. We know from those old blog posts that descendants from lesser Khan-Ur lineages have occasionally risen but few have ever been taken seriously enough. Maybe we'll be in for a surprise if Crecia's dam or sire actually has more lore relevance than we've been led to believe. I for one would love to see Crecia and Efram unite forces and learn from one another to face a common enemy, Crecia's sire, together.

    I also hope we get a proper state burial for Almorra and Smodur in the Black Citadel. It could be a symbolic pyre as it's been months since the end of the Drizzlewood war (as revealed in the recent Eye of the North dialogues), and we could see a charismatic populist Fume Brighteye use the opportunity provided by the funeral/vigil to rally Iron masses behind her with an inspirational speech to honor Smodur and bolstering her claim for the Iron throne while the pro-treaty Mia would have to figure out how to politically combat her skilled opponent. Maybe the devs could even decide to flesh out both female charr and then let the playerbase vote on whether Mia or Fume takes the throne, and how that choice will have impact in the future in regard to which path Iron embraces?

    We also know from Drizzlewood dialogues that a surprising number of allied charr, even Iron, actually don't care that much about the treaty with humanity as they actively threaten or mock the Seraph aiding them, telling them that the two races are only allies for the time being. This is why Smodur even mentioned in his correspondence how the real war only begins after Bangar has been dealt with, how traitors need to be rooted out and executed, and any extremist belief in Ascalon needs to be dealt with before it continues poisoning charr. The battle for the soul of the charr won't end with the defeat of the Dominion as the charr are now more divided than ever before in their beliefs.

    As Fume is also vehemently anti-treaty because of what the humans did to her sire and how she's among the three most popular Iron tribunes along with Mia and Bhuer Goreblade as per lore, she should realistically be rallying these anti-treaty Iron charr behind her while doing her best to separate her politics from Bangar's Dominion. Launch lore set up such an interesting political dilemma with Mia and Fume's opposing stances and how Fume could be a sympathetic antagonist with the way her backstory has been presented, so if she does make an appearance, hopefully she doesn't become a vile villain but remains a relatable antagonist with good qualities despite her anti-human stance.

    Another curious thing in Drizzlewood ambient dialogue is that a bunch of Blood and even non-Blood charr actually fear Crecia's wrath so a few of them don't dare oppose her should her ambitions become apparent. I wonder if this little plot will be developed further and we see a more ruthless side of Crecia as she tries to assert control to dominate her opposition. How far is she willing to go to secure victory after already losing so much in the civil war?

    It's going to be interesting to see how much time the devs will give to any of these potential political charr subplots as so much is already going on in the narrative (I'm still waiting for involvement of Knut Whitebear's family who have an ominous prophecy tied to them as per Finn's discoveries, and potential on-screen vocal appearances of Bear and Snow Leopard to round up the four Great Spirits' involvement), but I hope we get at least some crumbs here and there as they could have quite a few cool storytelling moments by exploring these ideas from launch lore and the stuff set up in the saga's prologue. Perhaps we'll even have a chance of meeting Smodur and Cinder again (if they return as Mist Wardens) and their respective disagreements with Bangar and Ryland. :)

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Yeah, looks like ANet's full out retconned those two paragraphs of The Ecology of the Charr about imperatorship and the primus warbands of the High Legions. Another victim to the "post-HoT writing team ignoring small pieces of pre-S3 lore". It really does feel like, ever since Season 3, ANet stopped caring about the fine details and are constantly redefining things.

    For those unknowing of what we're talking about:

    The primus warband of any legion carries the name of that legion—Ash, Blood, Iron and in the case of the Gold Legion, Flame. This singular legion is hereditary, but the leader must claim the name through blood challenge—a fight between descendants of the Khan-Ur for supremacy within the legion.

    Occasionally, non-descendants of the Khan-Ur join the primus warband, taking the name of their leader as their own, as is Charr tradition. But the leader of the primus is always a descendant of the Khan-Ur, the foremost heir of the legion and their rightful inheritor of the crown of leadership among the Charr.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ecology_of_the_Charr

    Crecia becoming Imperator is a very odd choice even ignoring this. Crecia was born Flame, and has an established history of this being a point of strife for her in the Blood Legion, despite rising to the ranks of Tribune.

    Bah, that is such a Kralkatorric mindset, the charr never allowed it before, so they couldn't have changed it now... But we killed Kralk, so there, hah!

    Well, I do admit, stuff like this happening in the background is a bit disappointing. Then again, doing such a side story properly is probably a big undertaking. The focus is on dragons after all. But I can't call it a retcon if the future is different from the historic description of something. This is just a change, not a retroactive change.

  • Maybe this all is reveiled in due episodes?
    The fight with Jormag is causing a unification of the legions for the first time since many many centuries. There was a time the three legions worked together, but never the 4 (since the time of EotN if I am correct).

    I think there is a difference between the office and the chair. There is a title that only can be given to the hier's of the Khan-ur. But there is also the rank that is the leadership of the blood legions. I imagine the title will stay with Bangar as long as he lives. There is even a good chance that when (if?) Jormag's control over Bangar makes him capable again to resume the office. But till such time he is dead, he is freed of Jormag or been put down by the legion, he remains in title the imperator. However currently is unable to hold the office. So his second in command holds the office and is the de facto the imperator. I find it difficult to point at plotholes or inconsistencies halfway a developing story., while not knowing the end

  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There may have been a more in depth plan for this plot thread, but the popular consensus seems to be that ANet was forced to rewrite the Saga to accommodate EoDs. If there was a meatier thread for Crecia’s ascension, a good chunk (or all) may have been cut. Champions would do well to at least touch on it with a few lines of dialogue imo, but we’ll have to see.

    Right now it seems like we’re gunning to a big climax and resolution that likely will take us in a very different direction. I’m certain the focus will sadly fall away from exploring the Charr and Norn.

  • @Svennis.3852 said:
    There may have been a more in depth plan for this plot thread, but the popular consensus seems to be that ANet was forced to rewrite the Saga to accommodate EoDs.

    I would imagine the pandemic would have a heftier effect on the production of the game while maintaining schedule, than the addition of an expansion which seemed planned pretty early on in IBS's production.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    There may have been a more in depth plan for this plot thread, but the popular consensus seems to be that ANet was forced to rewrite the Saga to accommodate EoDs.

    I would imagine the pandemic would have a heftier effect on the production of the game while maintaining schedule, than the addition of an expansion which seemed planned pretty early on in IBS's production.

    Yeah, you’re most likely right. I don’t have the dev statements, but others are saying the plan was a prologue with 8 episodes early on. Whether or not it looked exactly like this is anyone’s guess. Just hoping for the best at this point! Crecia’s position seems like a worthwhile thread to explore.

  • Hypnowulf.7403Hypnowulf.7403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2020

    Gosh, this is an interesting thread. Nice post, Kossage.

    I once had a friend that said that the majority of video game loremasters make for poor historians—the reason they give for this, as a historian themself, is that loremasters oft look at information given to them in a purely objective way. A historian has to realise that much of the accounts they'll read are very subjective depictions slanted by the perspectives, biases, and politics of the writers.

    A while back I called ArenaNet on this. In fact, I called out Tom Abernathy very directly. I was all "Hey Tom! You guys write subjective lore to drive people nuts!" and he said "100 per cent!" True story. I mean, it's up to you if you believe it or not.

    I've seen this with many games prior—the belief that anything written provides an objective truth that's writ in stone as a commandment from the deity of lore their very self and cannot—under any circumstances—be perceived in any other way, changed, or rewritten lest one commit the sin of retcon! It's silly. I think it's silly. I've been told that I need to specify when it's that I think something even though this confuses me as all I think is what I think, it is my mind thinking it. Neurotypicals are strange.

    The point I'm making here is that were one to look at human history, it is indeed a measurably mutable thing that twists, turns, and shifts with every new piece of evidence we discover. This is true of all aspects of reality. I mean, can you imagine that anyone ever really believed that wolf packs had alphas? That was so ludicrous, anyone who'd ever spent any time with a pack of wolves would know so. Very silly. Just as silly as believing that you wouldn't find a woman on a viking ship. It's silly now because we've learned better, but at the time some would've sworn that.

    Humans often get attached to strange ideas as objective truths up until reality bashes them over the head with evidence that suggests they were wrong about everything. This is something that a good scientist is always prepared to accept—times change, and so do we, so must we. So must all. Reality, too. Every thought you've ever had is in the past, we move forward at the speed of light. Getting too attached to what you believe has any sense of objectivity is folly.

    I mean, objectivity in and of itself is a subjective assumption agreed upon by the gestalt, isn't it? What else could it be? A fact is just the best idea we have, and nothing more.

    I wouldn't normally have such a philosophical discussion—yes I would, I live and breathe these, so I can't say that—but I feel it's necessary here to point out that the Ecology of the Charr doesn't matter. It does not matter. It's nothing more than an idea of how people were. In that sense and only in that sense it's useful, but it's an idea of how something was a long time ago. It's so easy to become outdated and outmoded if you allow yourself to become attached, that's why I'm still hip and radical with the youth these days. Probably not.

    The point is—which I do like to say a lot—that the charr are a people and people change, times change, the world changes, everything changes around the charr so the charr too must be mutable and they too must change. Much has already changed for the charr, they've met the Olmakhan, the Flame legion has returned to the fold, and I strongly suspect that there might soon be a Frost legion as well—I think this dichotomy would amuse the ArenaNet writers too much to resist and I support them wholeheartedly in their endeavours as a Jormag proselytiser.

    That said, I am uncertain as to whether Crecia will be the Blood legion imperator. I do wonder if that's going to end up being Rytlock once he retains his confidence. I mean, it might be, I don't know, but I wonder if a greater station awaits Crecia. Crecia has a level-headedness that I admire. Yes, she got hacked by Bangar to breathlessly defend him but so do a lot of people. Neurotypicals seem to have no defence when it comes to the manipulations of psychopaths—I imagine a lot of that is that you have what I'd describe as Psychopathy Target Error, you perceive autistic and socially anxious traits as those of dangerous intent without realising that a predator would perfectly evolve to predate upon you, they wouldn't behave in such unusual ways. Where was I?

    Right! I don't blame Crecia for what happened with Bangar because that's something I've observed quite often. Hopefully she knows better now. No, I suspect a loftier station might wait for Crecia, she has my vote for khan-ur.

    Will there be a khan-ur? Why wouldn't there be a khan-ur? Is it because there hasn't been? Why is that a good reason for there to not be one? Times change as so too must the charr, the world is quickly evolving around them and they have to evolve with it. I mean, that's the point isn't it? They can't be all Ecology forever. They're changing, everything tends to do that. All living things must.

    You aren't the person that was born with your name, after all. Everything in your body has changed and you are no longer that person, you're a new person with the name and the identity but everything in your body has changed. We all change all the time. I feel like I'm about to go off on a Matt Smithian ramble about the evolution of identity but I won't. Just... Matt Smith's regeneration is a good touchstone for this. Moffat was quite exceptionally good at relevant speeches.

    History doesn't really matter in any sense other than to understand who we were—we do need to understand that, yes, otherwise we'll be the worst of things again. However, at the same time we cannot be chained by history. It isn't an objective thing that exists in a constant state of stagnancy. Even Jormag is changing; After all, they now know what it feels like to do a wheelie in a doom buggy and I envy them.

    Lucky Frost legion engineers. That looks like so much fun.

    So, yes. The charr mustn't be chained by the Ecology or any other source. They decide upon what's right for themselves, as a people. To be wound up in superstition and lore to the point where you can't think outside of that box is... unfortunate. It isn't so much that the writers are "discarding the holiness of the objective lore," but rather that they're also quite cognizant of how the charr are an evolving people who needn't obey every little pointless tradition.

  • My partner had some interesting titbits to share regarding this apparently controversial topic too, I think I'll try and pass those along. I'll try and best explain their words as my own—they have even greater social anxiety than I, so I do this because they're often quite insightful.

    They brought to the fore women's suffrage—they made the point that the charr being unable to change their political systems would be akin to claiming that because women couldn't vote at one point, they shouldn't be able to vote now as all is immutable and nothing changes. The imperatorship system is a social construct—the charr becoming an ever more increasingly progressive race will soon turn away from tradition ever more toward pragmatism instead.

    The charr are incredibly pragmatic. I've pointed out prior—admittedly just to see how deep the Ascalonian fetishism runs—that the charr fahrar system is an incredibly clever, practical, and sensible one. Their flaw is separating children from their parents. However, if their parents aren't fit to raise a child then even that is a worthwhile endeavour. I'd say though that if a couple can raise a child, they shouldn't get cut off. If you remove that particular aspect of the fahrar system, what you end up with is socialism. You have well-trained teachers and nannies whose job it is to raise young charr.

    There are aspects of charr culture that are absolutely prepped for evolving into systems highly reminiscent of socialism. If you look at how their social structures work now—even the lowest rank, plebeian, has entitlements. I'd say that a person without anything might do far better for themselves in the Black Citadel than in modern America. It's a hot-take but the treatment of people in America is poor. Whether it's healthcare, handling homeless people, or what-have-you. Very little spending.

    The point is is that there's a certain kind of care and sense to charr culture that doesn't have much truck with tradition. It's often tradition that leads to ritual sacrifices, drilling a hole in someone's head to let the evil spirits out, and other forms of foolishness. In most cases, tradition serves little to no purpose other than being a toxic factor within any culture that degrades its sense.

    I feel that this is a topic being discussed within The Icebrood Saga now and how the Spirits of the Wild (who eat children I might add) have brainwashed the norn with all of this brain-rot about dying to become a legend. They've over-expressed the importance of traditions and superstitions as a means to control the norn. I think that this is why—now having been given the choice—Jormag chose a charr champion. Jormag seems to be fond of sensible, rational thinking and they do not like tradition or superstition. Yes, I admit they can be helpful tools for learning but their importance is always so excessively over-emphasised in any culture that relies on them. They're a crutch.

    Traditions are what you do if you don't have any better ideas than those a thousand years outdated, which is a little...

    Hm.

    A woman not being able to vote was a tradition that made little sense. It's since changed. The charr forcing women into kitchens made little to no sense, so that changed—Effram sees the sense in this as the women of his branch of the Flame legion are free to choose for themselves, you hear their thoughts being shared regarding this in Grothmar and the general consensus is that they're very happy about having basic free will.

    The charr aren't biologically compelled to obey someone of the khan-ur's bloodline. It's not biological. It is just a social construct. A tradition. They change, laws change, times change, people change, everything changes. The charr are better than needing traditions like that to decide their leadership, so this would be a good time to discard those very pointless old traditions in favour of better systems.

    Riddle me this: If the outcome of choosing by bloodline results in Bangar and Smodur, what worth has bloodline? Frankly, I wouldn't even be surprised if Malice isn't of the bloodline, either. Being Ash, she could've easily fudged it. I really want that to be a thing and I hope it is, that young Malice snuck into the legion's records rooms and added herself to the list of charr supposedly derived from that bloodline in order to give herself a shot at imperatorship. That's a very Ash legion thing to do. I'd love that.

    The point is is that the blood of the khan-ur might not be quite the hot kitten it's cracked up to be. So choosing leaders via other means going forward would probably be better. This isn't a retcon, that's like saying women's suffrage was a "retcon." It's the charr peoples changing as a society, as a culture. It's progress. Progress isn't a retcon. Progress is life. If you're not moving forward, you're dead. Yes, there's definitely a good case to be made for not rushing things, but after the amount of time the charr have been using this sytem I wouldn't exactly say they would be rushing into something different.

    For me, this is actually really cool! I mean, how often do we get to see the evolution of a species in a video game? Often, they're very one-dimensional and one-note. I mean, look at any Elder Scrolls race. ESO did a little to fix that but it's still leagues behind what Guild Wars 2 has achieved. It's tiring to have nothing change—In World of Warcraft, nothing's relaly changed and they keep retreading old glories, that's how it is in most of these games. It's nice to have one that does acknowledge that change exists.

  • anninke.7469anninke.7469 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    My partner had some interesting titbits to share regarding this apparently controversial topic too, I think I'll try and pass those along. I'll try and best explain their words as my own—they have even greater social anxiety than I, so I do this because they're often quite insightful.

    They brought to the fore women's suffrage—they made the point that the charr being unable to change their political systems would be akin to claiming that because women couldn't vote at one point, they shouldn't be able to vote now as all is immutable and nothing changes. The imperatorship system is a social construct—the charr becoming an ever more increasingly progressive race will soon turn away from tradition ever more toward pragmatism instead.

    The charr are incredibly pragmatic. I've pointed out prior—admittedly just to see how deep the Ascalonian fetishism runs—that the charr fahrar system is an incredibly clever, practical, and sensible one. Their flaw is separating children from their parents. However, if their parents aren't fit to raise a child then even that is a worthwhile endeavour. I'd say though that if a couple can raise a child, they shouldn't get cut off. If you remove that particular aspect of the fahrar system, what you end up with is socialism. You have well-trained teachers and nannies whose job it is to raise young charr.

    There are aspects of charr culture that are absolutely prepped for evolving into systems highly reminiscent of socialism. If you look at how their social structures work now—even the lowest rank, plebeian, has entitlements. I'd say that a person without anything might do far better for themselves in the Black Citadel than in modern America. It's a hot-take but the treatment of people in America is poor. Whether it's healthcare, handling homeless people, or what-have-you. Very little spending.

    The point is is that there's a certain kind of care and sense to charr culture that doesn't have much truck with tradition. It's often tradition that leads to ritual sacrifices, drilling a hole in someone's head to let the evil spirits out, and other forms of foolishness. In most cases, tradition serves little to no purpose other than being a toxic factor within any culture that degrades its sense.

    I feel that this is a topic being discussed within The Icebrood Saga now and how the Spirits of the Wild (who eat children I might add) have brainwashed the norn with all of this brain-rot about dying to become a legend. They've over-expressed the importance of traditions and superstitions as a means to control the norn. I think that this is why—now having been given the choice—Jormag chose a charr champion. Jormag seems to be fond of sensible, rational thinking and they do not like tradition or superstition. Yes, I admit they can be helpful tools for learning but their importance is always so excessively over-emphasised in any culture that relies on them. They're a crutch.

    Traditions are what you do if you don't have any better ideas than those a thousand years outdated, which is a little...

    Hm.

    A woman not being able to vote was a tradition that made little sense. It's since changed. The charr forcing women into kitchens made little to no sense, so that changed—Effram sees the sense in this as the women of his branch of the Flame legion are free to choose for themselves, you hear their thoughts being shared regarding this in Grothmar and the general consensus is that they're very happy about having basic free will.

    The charr aren't biologically compelled to obey someone of the khan-ur's bloodline. It's not biological. It is just a social construct. A tradition. They change, laws change, times change, people change, everything changes. The charr are better than needing traditions like that to decide their leadership, so this would be a good time to discard those very pointless old traditions in favour of better systems.

    Riddle me this: If the outcome of choosing by bloodline results in Bangar and Smodur, what worth has bloodline? Frankly, I wouldn't even be surprised if Malice isn't of the bloodline, either. Being Ash, she could've easily fudged it. I really want that to be a thing and I hope it is, that young Malice snuck into the legion's records rooms and added herself to the list of charr supposedly derived from that bloodline in order to give herself a shot at imperatorship. That's a very Ash legion thing to do. I'd love that.

    The point is is that the blood of the khan-ur might not be quite the hot kitten it's cracked up to be. So choosing leaders via other means going forward would probably be better. This isn't a retcon, that's like saying women's suffrage was a "retcon." It's the charr peoples changing as a society, as a culture. It's progress. Progress isn't a retcon. Progress is life. If you're not moving forward, you're dead. Yes, there's definitely a good case to be made for not rushing things, but after the amount of time the charr have been using this sytem I wouldn't exactly say they would be rushing into something different.

    For me, this is actually really cool! I mean, how often do we get to see the evolution of a species in a video game? Often, they're very one-dimensional and one-note. I mean, look at any Elder Scrolls race. ESO did a little to fix that but it's still leagues behind what Guild Wars 2 has achieved. It's tiring to have nothing change—In World of Warcraft, nothing's relaly changed and they keep retreading old glories, that's how it is in most of these games. It's nice to have one that does acknowledge that change exists.

    You and your partner make several interesting points (although you seem to like socialism a bit too much for my liking, me being a person from a post-communist coutry), however I dare say that you miss the point here a little. The main problem (IMO at least) is not Crecia becoming the Imperator. The main problem is IT HAPPENS OFF-SCREEN. It's far too interesting to not see.

    Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
    All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
    Act with wisdom and axe.

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭

    Considering GW2 is happening in middle ages like environment + the magic and some high technology from Asura and Charr, it is safe to assume that every Imperator wasn't actually descendants of Khan-Ur. Wiki says that all legions leaders are descendants of Khan-Ur, but original text which this information comes from says:

    "No Charr knows how many cubs the last Khan-Ur sired, but all four of the High Legions claim descendants from his line."

    Key word being claim, which means there really isn't definite proof of that. Historically many claims to titles were completely fabricated. For example William the Conqueror's claim to Kingdom of England comes from him saying that Edward the Confessor named him heir (they were distant relatives, but the story is a complete lie). So Crecia could just claim to be descendant of Khan-Ur and be Imperator of Blood Legion. For example current leader of Flame Legion while not officially Imperator he might become one despite not claiming to have the right blood.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    Cannot wait until Crecia is retconned and killed off like Smodur. She came out of nowhere and is now the Imperator. Give me a break. Also notice how the game portrays Smodur and Crecia very differently. In the Drizzlewood coast episode, we see Smodur executing Charr defectors and the overall reaction towards it is negative. While in the champions release, we see Rytlock proudly stating how Crecia is probably dealing with the dominion in a harsh way and the commander has nothing to say? Double standards! While my overall experience of the in-game systems of the Icebrood saga has been positive, the story is my least favorite part.

  • TeeracK.3601TeeracK.3601 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2021

    She actually was in the lore a long time before she was in the game.

    I think Smolder was the coolest and best thing to come out of the charr civil war. All we knew about him from core Tyria was he was the one who made peace with the humans. They could have very easily made him a boring paragon character but instead they went with something more realistic and interesting, and played into the idea of politics. It turning out smolder was scummy and does what ever it takes to win, and only made peace so he would get personal gain is a really cool idea in my opinion. He was a really good politician even had the commander fooled in grothmar that he was such a great choice for Khan ur.

    I wish we met his replacement in field of ruins. I'm curious to see what she will be like but I'm guessing she might be really dedicated to preserving peach with humanity if it was her mentors legacy.

  • I'm not sure if this was the case before, it's been several months since I paid attention to it, but did the latest patches change Crecia's title again in the 'Round Table' of representatives? As in, she is now the 'Acting Blood Legion Imperator', possibly hinting it's still not set in stone?

    In any case, I doubt anyone other than Crecia fits the role (unless if I'm forgetting some Tribune).

    But as far as the command of the High Iron Legion goes, I always vouched for Bhuer Goreblade to assume command. Being the leader of the Admant Guard, the elite of the Iron Legion protecting the Black Citadel. On top of that Erracus, his aide-de-camp having a specific view on Smodur's agenda sounds like a good reason for this Tribune to rise to power. As in, an 'opposition' of some sorts with no real conflict towards the late Imperator's actions, to avoid possible fracture within the Legion, especially after the war in Drizzlewood and the formation of the Dominion and the Frost Legion.

    Make Banner Warrior for Zergs great again!!!

  • XenoSpyro.1780XenoSpyro.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2021

    Crecia is the new imperator because she's second in command before Bangar, and now that Bangar is more or less out of the picture... Same deal for Smodur, Mia Kindleshot being second in command is going to take his place. Triple ditto if you think back to Efram replacing Gaharen.

    @TeeracK.3601 said:
    but instead they went with something more realistic and interesting, and played into the idea of politics. It turning out smolder was scumming and does what ever it takes to win, and only made peace so he would get personal gain is a really cool idea in my opinion

    You're not wrong, but I promise you Anet is not the type to have the foresight to meaningfully build up a character this way. Smodur's arc reeks of sudden direction change. The entire Drizzlewood portion of the story is drenched in shock deaths for the sake of shock value, as if the entirety of IBS itself didn't already have "Shock the player now, fix it later if the players complain."

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think Efram directly replaced Gaheron - I think it's noted somewhere that Efram has only just risen to a position of sufficient influence to be the de facto Flame imperator, and there would have been someone else in charge during the Molten Alliance stuff (since Gaheron died before Zhaitan did). How, precisely, Efram's faction managed to gain control (if not simply attrition of the belligerent faction) is not really clear at this point, but it was far from a direct succession.