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Imperator Crecia?

Biziut.3594Biziut.3594 Member ✭✭
edited October 28, 2020 in Lore

So, in latest "chatting with Bangar" achivment part, Crecia is trying to communicate with Jormag and she introduces herself as Imperator Crecia Stoneglow. As far as i know only decendants of the original Khan-Ur's Blood Legion cub can take the seat of Blood Legion imperator. So can it be Crecia is related to Bangar bloodline somehow, or there are no releatives left to take this position traditionally, or charrs suddenly do not care about the tradition anymore, or this is just a plot hole? What are your thoughts?

“I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.” ~ John Lennon.

Comments

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2020

    Imperator.

    I noticed that as well, and no one is certain if its just a formal way for Crecia to tell jormag she's the actual representative of Blood Legion, or if its already set in stone and she is definitely the new Blood Legion Imperator which leads into a big plot hole because it feels like that decision was made from overnight.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • I really hope A-Net will straighten this up. We already have way too many plot holes in the game. (Yes looking at you Malyck)

    “I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.” ~ John Lennon.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Yeah, looks like ANet's full out retconned those two paragraphs of The Ecology of the Charr about imperatorship and the primus warbands of the High Legions. Another victim to the "post-HoT writing team ignoring small pieces of pre-S3 lore". It really does feel like, ever since Season 3, ANet stopped caring about the fine details and are constantly redefining things.

    Given that you only have to go back a few generations to relate most people on earth in some way, by this point in time, every Charr that lives likely could claim the honor of being directly related to the Khan-Ur.

  • @Wolfb.7025 said:
    Imperator.

    Thanks, thats how it ends when you are cooking and writing on a forym at once. ^^

    “I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.” ~ John Lennon.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    I really don't mind if the writers break away from Charr tradition/lore, but I would like to see it addressed in game. The Blood Legion has chosen her despite antiquated traditions; her leadership through the civil war earned her the role in the Blood Legion's eyes. It would make sense that the remaining Charr who stayed with the United Legions would be more progressive on matters like that.

    Seeing that we are moving into a four part climax though, who knows if time will be made for it. :(

  • Kossage.9072Kossage.9072 Member ✭✭✭

    I find this development interesting as the writers mentioned in guild chat that we'd be exploring Crecia's struggles to become imperator in the future. Apparently promotion to imperator wouldn't be as straightforward as becoming tribune (unless one counts Bangar's suggestion to Rytlock to kill him, but we've yet to learn if Rytlock is in fact Bangar's son and thus his direct descendant if that's what they've been hinting at since Bound by Blood).

    Sadly we haven't seen any other Blood tribunes beyond Crecia, Rytlock, and Fierhan Sparwind. We don't know if Fierhan either stayed in the Black Citadel or traveled to the Blood Legion Homelands, and if he, as a Blood loyalist, would side with Bangar's Dominion or actually sided with Crecia's rebellion. If he chose Crecia over Bangar, however, I'd like to hear his thoughts on the matter and why he, as old school charr, decided to go against the wishes of his imperator.

    It's possible that the other Blood tribunes (there should at least be three more as per lore, but there could even be more of them out there) sided with Bangar and died during the civil war, leaving a power vacuum depending on if a primus centurion is automatically promoted to tribune or if there's competition among centurions who gets to take over for any of the tribunes who have fallen. In any case, Crecia would likely have at least Rytlock's support to become imperator, and if Fierhan, for whatever reason, decided to also support Crecia, that'd mean three tribunes siding with her. We've yet to see other members of the Stone Warband who are said to also have high positions in Blood Legion, so I wonder how much they contributed to Crecia's ascendancy and if we'll finally meet them in game.

    Perhaps the upcoming "Truce" chapter will also touch a bit on Crecia's, Mia Kindleshot's (or Fume Brighteye's) and Efram's struggles for becoming imperators as each candidate should realistically be contested by their fellow tribunes (several for Crecia unless she somehow wins them over without a struggle; at least Fume Brighteye who wouldn't let Mia take the Iron throne without a fight as per lore; and potential surviving Flame tribunes and hierophant, such as Crecia's evil shaman sire if he still lives, for Efram) regardless of if the old semicanonical rule of imperators being descendants of the Khan-Ur still applies. We know from those old blog posts that descendants from lesser Khan-Ur lineages have occasionally risen but few have ever been taken seriously enough. Maybe we'll be in for a surprise if Crecia's dam or sire actually has more lore relevance than we've been led to believe. I for one would love to see Crecia and Efram unite forces and learn from one another to face a common enemy, Crecia's sire, together.

    I also hope we get a proper state burial for Almorra and Smodur in the Black Citadel. It could be a symbolic pyre as it's been months since the end of the Drizzlewood war (as revealed in the recent Eye of the North dialogues), and we could see a charismatic populist Fume Brighteye use the opportunity provided by the funeral/vigil to rally Iron masses behind her with an inspirational speech to honor Smodur and bolstering her claim for the Iron throne while the pro-treaty Mia would have to figure out how to politically combat her skilled opponent. Maybe the devs could even decide to flesh out both female charr and then let the playerbase vote on whether Mia or Fume takes the throne, and how that choice will have impact in the future in regard to which path Iron embraces?

    We also know from Drizzlewood dialogues that a surprising number of allied charr, even Iron, actually don't care that much about the treaty with humanity as they actively threaten or mock the Seraph aiding them, telling them that the two races are only allies for the time being. This is why Smodur even mentioned in his correspondence how the real war only begins after Bangar has been dealt with, how traitors need to be rooted out and executed, and any extremist belief in Ascalon needs to be dealt with before it continues poisoning charr. The battle for the soul of the charr won't end with the defeat of the Dominion as the charr are now more divided than ever before in their beliefs.

    As Fume is also vehemently anti-treaty because of what the humans did to her sire and how she's among the three most popular Iron tribunes along with Mia and Bhuer Goreblade as per lore, she should realistically be rallying these anti-treaty Iron charr behind her while doing her best to separate her politics from Bangar's Dominion. Launch lore set up such an interesting political dilemma with Mia and Fume's opposing stances and how Fume could be a sympathetic antagonist with the way her backstory has been presented, so if she does make an appearance, hopefully she doesn't become a vile villain but remains a relatable antagonist with good qualities despite her anti-human stance.

    Another curious thing in Drizzlewood ambient dialogue is that a bunch of Blood and even non-Blood charr actually fear Crecia's wrath so a few of them don't dare oppose her should her ambitions become apparent. I wonder if this little plot will be developed further and we see a more ruthless side of Crecia as she tries to assert control to dominate her opposition. How far is she willing to go to secure victory after already losing so much in the civil war?

    It's going to be interesting to see how much time the devs will give to any of these potential political charr subplots as so much is already going on in the narrative (I'm still waiting for involvement of Knut Whitebear's family who have an ominous prophecy tied to them as per Finn's discoveries, and potential on-screen vocal appearances of Bear and Snow Leopard to round up the four Great Spirits' involvement), but I hope we get at least some crumbs here and there as they could have quite a few cool storytelling moments by exploring these ideas from launch lore and the stuff set up in the saga's prologue. Perhaps we'll even have a chance of meeting Smodur and Cinder again (if they return as Mist Wardens) and their respective disagreements with Bangar and Ryland. :)

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Yeah, looks like ANet's full out retconned those two paragraphs of The Ecology of the Charr about imperatorship and the primus warbands of the High Legions. Another victim to the "post-HoT writing team ignoring small pieces of pre-S3 lore". It really does feel like, ever since Season 3, ANet stopped caring about the fine details and are constantly redefining things.

    For those unknowing of what we're talking about:

    The primus warband of any legion carries the name of that legion—Ash, Blood, Iron and in the case of the Gold Legion, Flame. This singular legion is hereditary, but the leader must claim the name through blood challenge—a fight between descendants of the Khan-Ur for supremacy within the legion.

    Occasionally, non-descendants of the Khan-Ur join the primus warband, taking the name of their leader as their own, as is Charr tradition. But the leader of the primus is always a descendant of the Khan-Ur, the foremost heir of the legion and their rightful inheritor of the crown of leadership among the Charr.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ecology_of_the_Charr

    Crecia becoming Imperator is a very odd choice even ignoring this. Crecia was born Flame, and has an established history of this being a point of strife for her in the Blood Legion, despite rising to the ranks of Tribune.

    Bah, that is such a Kralkatorric mindset, the charr never allowed it before, so they couldn't have changed it now... But we killed Kralk, so there, hah!

    Well, I do admit, stuff like this happening in the background is a bit disappointing. Then again, doing such a side story properly is probably a big undertaking. The focus is on dragons after all. But I can't call it a retcon if the future is different from the historic description of something. This is just a change, not a retroactive change.

  • Maybe this all is reveiled in due episodes?
    The fight with Jormag is causing a unification of the legions for the first time since many many centuries. There was a time the three legions worked together, but never the 4 (since the time of EotN if I am correct).

    I think there is a difference between the office and the chair. There is a title that only can be given to the hier's of the Khan-ur. But there is also the rank that is the leadership of the blood legions. I imagine the title will stay with Bangar as long as he lives. There is even a good chance that when (if?) Jormag's control over Bangar makes him capable again to resume the office. But till such time he is dead, he is freed of Jormag or been put down by the legion, he remains in title the imperator. However currently is unable to hold the office. So his second in command holds the office and is the de facto the imperator. I find it difficult to point at plotholes or inconsistencies halfway a developing story., while not knowing the end

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    There may have been a more in depth plan for this plot thread, but the popular consensus seems to be that ANet was forced to rewrite the Saga to accommodate EoDs. If there was a meatier thread for Crecia’s ascension, a good chunk (or all) may have been cut. Champions would do well to at least touch on it with a few lines of dialogue imo, but we’ll have to see.

    Right now it seems like we’re gunning to a big climax and resolution that likely will take us in a very different direction. I’m certain the focus will sadly fall away from exploring the Charr and Norn.

  • @Svennis.3852 said:
    There may have been a more in depth plan for this plot thread, but the popular consensus seems to be that ANet was forced to rewrite the Saga to accommodate EoDs.

    I would imagine the pandemic would have a heftier effect on the production of the game while maintaining schedule, than the addition of an expansion which seemed planned pretty early on in IBS's production.

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    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    There may have been a more in depth plan for this plot thread, but the popular consensus seems to be that ANet was forced to rewrite the Saga to accommodate EoDs.

    I would imagine the pandemic would have a heftier effect on the production of the game while maintaining schedule, than the addition of an expansion which seemed planned pretty early on in IBS's production.

    Yeah, you’re most likely right. I don’t have the dev statements, but others are saying the plan was a prologue with 8 episodes early on. Whether or not it looked exactly like this is anyone’s guess. Just hoping for the best at this point! Crecia’s position seems like a worthwhile thread to explore.