Please give Renegade the Firebrand treatment. Huge AoE covering a point isn't fun to fight

Would love to see some AoE reduction done to Renegade. They're also way too tanky.

Oh yeah, remove rez signets, banners, etc... Huge nonstop AoE, tankiness + instant rezzing have no place in PvP.

A suggestion I agree with is lowering the HP of spirits. Also, prevent them from being healed & receiving boons. This would all only take effect in PvP

Firebrand had a trait increasing the radius. Renegade is like that as a baseline. A change like this would most likely be game wide, meaning PvE renegades would suffer.

Darkrazer's Daring is annoying, but so is thief stealth, spellbreaker's seemingly infinite number of evades and blocks, necro fears, tempests and all of their projectile blocks, ect. I don't think simply being annoying should be enough reason to nerf something.

What's important is whether or not Kalla Renegade has enough counterplay to warrant such an obnoxious stregnth. Luckily it has no shortage of weaknesses to exploit.

@Kuma.1503 said:Firebrand had a trait increasing the radius. Renegade is like that as a baseline. A change like this would most likely be game wide, meaning PvE renegades would suffer.

Darkrazer's Daring is annoying, but so is thief stealth, spellbreaker's seemingly infinite number of evades and blocks, necro fears, tempests and all of their projectile blocks, ect. I don't think simply being annoying should be enough reason to nerf something.

What's important is whether or not Kalla Renegade has enough counterplay to warrant such an obnoxious stregnth. Luckily it has no shortage of weaknesses to exploit.

They could do a radius reduction that's PvP specific

I'll be a cunt and say it they can reduce the HP of spirits by 30% like the damage was reduced, but i don't think that is the real issue with Rev, renegade has not received the same attention as all other professions after PoF, since it was not used much thanks to Scourge. Allot of it skills and traits have not been changed up like the most classes and it is basically fresh PoF speck and those are total broken bullshit, so the scaling of its abilities is really wack.

@Vancho.8750 said:I'll be a kitten and say it they can reduce the HP of spirits by 30% like the damage was reduced, but i don't think that is the real issue with Rev, renegade has not received the same attention as all other professions after PoF, since it was not used much thanks to Scourge. Allot of it skills and traits have not been changed up like the most classes and it is basically fresh PoF speck and those are total broken kitten, so the scaling of its abilities is really wack.

Wouldn't mind if they lowered spirits' HP so they could be focused down easily

Squisher spirits would be an appropriate nerf. Renegades should think a little harder about where they pop down their spirits.

Pre Feb patch, spirits could die in the middle of teamfights, which is an avenue of counterplay that has been lost after the reduction in damage. A spirit health decrease of ~30-40% should bring them back to pre Feb patch levels of tankiness.

@Kuma.1503 said:Squisher spirits would be an appropriate nerf. Renegades should think a little harder about where they pop down their spirits.

Pre Feb patch, spirits could die in the middle of teamfights, which is an avenue of counterplay that has been lost after the reduction in damage. A spirit health decrease of ~30-40% should bring them back to pre Feb patch levels of tankiness.

30-40%? I think we should start at 70%

I actually wouldn't mind renegade OPed point coverage if it there were other game modes. Having a build that's extremely good one game mode isn't really a problem, unless it's the ONLY game mode. So, I hate to join the nerf parade, but I too would like to see renegade point coverage reduced. It is excessive.

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I actually wouldn't mind renegade OPed point coverage if it there were other game modes. Having a build that's extremely good one game mode isn't really a problem, unless it's the ONLY game mode. So, I hate to join the nerf parade, but I too would like to see renegade point coverage reduced. It is excessive.

Thank you. It's the same issue we had with FB covering nodes with symbols. Renegod has way too much node control. It's also ridiculously tanky when built to live. Also very hard to force off node

@mes.4607 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I actually wouldn't mind renegade OPed point coverage if it there were other game modes. Having a build that's extremely good one game mode isn't really a problem, unless it's the ONLY game mode. So, I hate to join the nerf parade, but I too would like to see renegade point coverage reduced. It is excessive.

It's not the exact same issue for a number of reasons.

Renegade does not put multiple AoE spirits on node. Icerazer is a single target spirit. Darkrazer is the only pulsing AoE spirit and it is tied to their stunbreak. Every other spirit is either support or an on-hit effect that you must stand in to gain benefits from. Notably, this means that they cannot put down these spirits and walk away while still gaining value. A renegade will need to stand in his AoE's and land his abilities in order to gain value, all while suffering a severe energy drain.

Spirits can be interacted with. If a FB puts down 3 symbols you have to either deal with it or walk away.Spirits can be interrupted, and with a spirit vitality decrease, you could reasonably burst them down as well.

Lumping them in with Firebrand and claiming it's the same issue, ergo, deserving of the same nerf isn't a productive way of solving the problem of how to make renegade feel more fair to fight.

@Kuma.1503 said:

@mes.4607 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I actually wouldn't mind renegade OPed point coverage if it there were other game modes. Having a build that's extremely good one game mode isn't really a problem, unless it's the ONLY game mode. So, I hate to join the nerf parade, but I too would like to see renegade point coverage reduced. It is excessive.

I wish anet would hot fix a solution in

Oh look! It's the new "xxx is OP! PLEASE NURF" parade again! What a surprise!

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LTP issue.
2. Also, if you propose nerf to AOEs that cover the whole node, I am all in if all AOE skills are nerfed to 180 radius. And by all, I mean ALL of the skills - be it those you have to place, or instant skills with AOE effect? Would you like that?

P.S. Why should myself, anet, or anyone should else care about what a highly subjective streamer is ranting about?

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LFP issue.

What does LFP mean

@knite.1542 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LFP issue.

corrected my typo. - LTP. not 'F' obviously.

The problem on renegade is more sevenshot or/and dwarf.You can run celestial while sevenshot does 10k, and with dwarf you are literally immune to cc

Kalla is not the big problem

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! It's the new "xxx is OP! PLEASE NURF" parade again! What a surprise!

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LTP issue.
2. Also, if you propose nerf to AOEs that cover the whole node, I am all in if all AOE skills are nerfed to 180 radius. And by all, I mean ALL of the skills - be it those you have to place, or instant skills with AOE effect? Would you like that?

P.S. Why should myself, anet, or anyone should else care about what a highly subjective streamer is ranting about?

Anet Should Care because at the end of the day, Action Have Consequences and spread and affect others

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! It's the new "xxx is OP! PLEASE NURF" parade again! What a surprise!

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LTP issue.
2. Also, if you propose nerf to AOEs that cover the whole node, I am all in if all AOE skills are nerfed to 180 radius. And by all, I mean ALL of the skills - be it those you have to place, or instant skills with AOE effect? Would you like that?

P.S. Why should myself, anet, or anyone should else care about what a highly subjective streamer is ranting about?

People will complain about Renegade even if it isn't top dog because it's frustrating to fight.

You look at their animations and you see 3 different circles on node, and you think "great, they're spamming AoE's" not realizing that they just put down Icerazer, Soulcleave, and breakrazer. (None of those deal AoE damage or CC)

Every time I see a renegade complaint that "they put 3 different pulsing AoEs on node" I facepalm because I know it's someone who has little idea of how renegade works and is just complaining because they don't want to put the work in to understand how the class works.

No one ever talks about how Kalla/Shiro gets destroyed by condis or how Kalla/Jallis has less mobility than a necro (Should be focused just like a necro). Kalla in general is such a flawed legend that most Renegades I see these days have opted to go Shiro/Jallis instead.

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! It's the new "xxx is OP! PLEASE NURF" parade again! What a surprise!

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LTP issue.
2. Also, if you propose nerf to AOEs that cover the whole node, I am all in if all AOE skills are nerfed to 180 radius. And by all, I mean ALL of the skills - be it those you have to place, or instant skills with AOE effect? Would you like that?

P.S. Why should myself, anet, or anyone should else care about what a highly subjective streamer is ranting about?

Unfortunately the VOD was removed. Anyway, Renegade AoE =/= other classes AoE. Renegade node control is over the top. You're overreacting or must be a Renegade player... It needs nerfs ASAP. As well as other things

@mes.4607 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! It's the new "xxx is OP! PLEASE NURF" parade again! What a surprise!

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LTP issue.
2. Also, if you propose nerf to AOEs that cover the whole node, I am all in if all AOE skills are nerfed to 180 radius. And by all, I mean ALL of the skills - be it those you have to place, or instant skills with AOE effect? Would you like that?

P.S. Why should myself, anet, or anyone should else care about what a highly subjective streamer is ranting about?

It's not though. Darkrazer is annoying, but I cannot stress enough that this should not be spammed because it is the Renegade's stunbreak. Icerazer is single target damage only and is easy to play around. A tempest can completely nullify it with swirling winds. All other spirits barring their heal are glorified on hit effects.

A scourge has much more node control that a Renegade does, and Kalla Ren is just as easy to focus as your average scourge. Renegade players can tell you this because they've played the class. Rather than going on misinformation and gut feelings, they understand how the class works and what it's stregnths and weaknesses are. If a class's main tells you how to outright beat their class, rather than write that off as bias, it's worth listening to what they have to say.

I never understood that comeback anyway "You must be an X player yourself"

Why would you ever want advice from someone who has never played the class in question? How else would they gain a full understanding how the class works and how to beat it? You only gain so much of the picture from playing against the class.

If you haven't played Renegade yet, I suggest doing so before coming to the forums to suggest balance changes for it.

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@mes.4607 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! It's the new "xxx is OP! PLEASE NURF" parade again! What a surprise!

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LTP issue.
2. Also, if you propose nerf to AOEs that cover the whole node, I am all in if all AOE skills are nerfed to 180 radius. And by all, I mean ALL of the skills - be it those you have to place, or instant skills with AOE effect? Would you like that?

P.S. Why should myself, anet, or anyone should else care about what a highly subjective streamer is ranting about?

Err...what? I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm just going to assume this thread is a troll and move on.

i would tinker with hp before aoe radius imo

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i would tinker with hp before aoe radius imo

1k hp every spirit

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! It's the new "xxx is OP! PLEASE NURF" parade again! What a surprise!

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LTP issue.
2. Also, if you propose nerf to AOEs that cover the whole node, I am all in if all AOE skills are nerfed to 180 radius. And by all, I mean ALL of the skills - be it those you have to place, or instant skills with AOE effect? Would you like that?

P.S. Why should myself, anet, or anyone should else care about what a highly subjective streamer is ranting about?

I can bet you my lunch money OP is far more experience then you in Spvp. I can pretty much bet you my life that the OP a better dueler, ranked, and a much better conquest player then yourself.

Imagine thinking that this entire topic is only a "LTP" issue if that was the case then same could of been said for Necros and Firebrands.....

Quality of players has dropped so much over the year it's freaking insane @mes.4607

-Trunks

@Ouk.5914 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! It's the new "xxx is OP! PLEASE NURF" parade again! What a surprise!

1. OP, iof you find it difficult to not stand in a big RED circle, that's an LTP issue.
2. Also, if you propose nerf to AOEs that cover the whole node, I am all in if all AOE skills are nerfed to 180 radius. And by all, I mean ALL of the skills - be it those you have to place, or instant skills with AOE effect? Would you like that?

P.S. Why should myself, anet, or anyone should else care about what a highly subjective streamer is ranting about?

You're a true friend trunks <3

@mes.4607 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i would tinker with hp before aoe radius imo

nah dude thats nothing, i'd do 2.5k armor 3k hp. 1k hp is 1 auto from a paladin build and they should be stronger then a mes clone. btw where is the info on the current renegade summons stats? can't find it on wiki.