Suggestions to help balance stealth in a way other than duration:

TL DR: First Suggestion --> When you dodge an attack from a stealthed character they drop out of stealth. Second suggestion: Mesmer stealth isn't cancelled by a random clone shattering late.

NUMBER 1 It's tough, (and I can't be the only one thinking this) when a thief disappears into 3-4 seconds of stealth giving them the initiative on their next attack. That's fine and dandy, I get it but it's ROUGH when you dodge their re-engage with a perfectly timed evade only to find that they're still in stealth and STILL have the initiative. A moment later they get a free second try but your survival resources are already drained. Can we get a change on this?

NUMBER 2 Picture this, you're a mesmer and just landed a reasonable shatter against a group of enemies (be you mirage/core/chrono w/e) and now it's time to disengage. So you hit your last source of stealth, (signet of midnight, torch 4, heck even mass invis) and you disappear in a moment of relief. BUT NO, WAIT, there he is, the clone that was left on the stairs, he's valiantly running around right now en-route to pop your recently acquired stealth and ruin your day. Can we get a change on this?

naaahhhhhhh.

I'm for reveal on stealth attack. Why should I worry about missing my Pistol stealth attack or even the projectiles giving away my position when I can just do it again? I can't be targeted so AoE are the only things to really worry about.

So basicly make thieves revealed when they don't do damage, but let mesmers stealth even while doing damage. Consistency!

@Bradies.5902 said:Suggestions to help balance stealth in a way other than duration:

TL DR: First Suggestion --> When you dodge an attack from a stealthed character they drop out of stealth. Second suggestion: Mesmer stealth isn't cancelled by a random clone shattering late.

NUMBER 1 It's tough, (and I can't be the only one thinking this) when a thief disappears into 3-4 seconds of stealth giving them the initiative on their next attack. That's fine and dandy, I get it but it's ROUGH when you dodge their re-engage with a perfectly timed evade only to find that they're still in stealth and STILL have the initiative. A moment later they get a free second try but your survival resources are already drained. Can we get a change on this?

NUMBER 2 Picture this, you're a mesmer and just landed a reasonable shatter against a group of enemies (be you mirage/core/chrono w/e) and now it's time to disengage. So you hit your last source of stealth, (signet of midnight, torch 4, heck even mass invis) and you disappear in a moment of relief. BUT NO, WAIT, there he is, the clone that was left on the stairs, he's valiantly running around right now en-route to pop your recently acquired stealth and ruin your day. Can we get a change on this?

+1

interesting idea. I would also like this to be applied to all stealth Professions equally, not just Thief Profession

@Bazsi.2734 said:So basicly make thieves revealed when they don't do damage, but let mesmers stealth even while doing damage. Consistency!

'It takes two to tangle'. Mesmer Profession is Punished with 1 dodge for abusing stealth while Thief Profession continue to be excused for abusing stealth??

(talk about Punishing one to accept Blame while allowing the other to continue to not take any Blame whatsoever for its part in it?)

Yeah!! basically, there is something wrong with this!!

It's important to emphasize that reworks to make stealth less of a hand-holding mechanic would also come with buffs to elsewhere in the classes that rely on it the most, otherwise any suggestions like this are always met with whining from players who don't want to understand why the current system of stealth is bad for the game.

Hahahaha, guess which class does OP play. Q_Q teef stealth bad, UwU mezmer stealth gut. Watch your clones when you go into stealth m8.Tbh its kinda funny, this game has 8 years, and stealth was NOT EVEN ONCE changed since the very beginning. There were tons and tons of threads crying about how bad mechanic it is, with plenty of suggestions, yet nothing has been changed. And here we go again.

It would be better if they just fixed the Stealth desync bug, but like most animation bugs it would be left to rot in the game forever.

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:So basicly make thieves revealed when they don't do damage, but let mesmers stealth even while doing damage. Consistency!

Ehm... what?

Yeah!! basically, there is something wrong with this!!

You've said it.

I think I made people mad... I'm not trying to be class biased with this suggestion here nor am I trying to repeat old suggestions given that it's my first foray into the world of forum posts. Happy for given suggestion to be applied regardless of class and one or the other is fine (as if I should be so lucky).

Being revealed on a missed stealth attempt for all classes that have access to stealth is a pretty reasonable ask imo. Not saying it's needed but compared to most other suggestions completely reasonable.

@Bazsi.2734 said:So basicly make thieves revealed when they don't do damage, but let mesmers stealth even while doing damage. Consistency!

One has much more consistent and easy access to it with DE being able to remove reveal. This isnt speaking to DE's viability, just that in terms of not just sheer stealth access but viable stealth, thief has it much better than mesmer.

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:So basicly make thieves revealed when they don't do damage, but let mesmers stealth even while doing damage. Consistency!

Yeah, so? Mesmer is infinitely better at summoning clones. Following this equaliser logic we could argue to make thieves guild be unkillable to have a better uptime on the AI. But thankfully, that's not how anything works. Different classes are good at different things.

As a mesmer main since launch, I don't even think mesmers should have access to stealth. So I think shattering revealing the mesmer is fine. No way should mes be able to do damage while in stealth, I'd even go as far to say that phantasm and clone attacks should also reveal the mesmer. I just think it's excessive to have clones AND access to stealth. it should be one or the other. Anet should make it a choice, tho that would require a overhaul of the whole system.

@Hot Boy.7138 said:As a mesmer main since launch, I don't even think mesmers should have access to stealth. So I think shattering revealing the mesmer is fine. No way should mes be able to do damage while in stealth, I'd even go as far to say that phantasm and clone attacks should also reveal the mesmer. I just think it's excessive to have clones AND access to stealth. it should be one or the other. Anet should make it a choice, tho that would require a overhaul of the whole system.

As a mesmer main since launch, I don't even think mesmers should have access to stealth -Best mesmer player comment on the forums -

If you will ever design a MMO in the future...please let me know, I'd love to play it....definitely it will be more balanced than this...one

@"Widmo.3186" said:Hahahaha, guess which class does OP play. Q_Q teef stealth bad, UwU mezmer stealth gut. Watch your clones when you go into stealth m8.Tbh its kinda funny, this game has 8 years, and stealth was NOT EVEN ONCE changed since the very beginning. There were tons and tons of threads crying about how bad mechanic it is, with plenty of suggestions, yet nothing has been changed. And here we go again.

Stealth in GW2 is why I will never ever ever ever again buy any PvP game with stealth in it....I don't care about the nature of the game....it may be a MMO or MOBA or RPG with multiplayer...if there is stealth in it...I'll pass

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:So basicly make thieves revealed when they don't do damage, but let mesmers stealth even while doing damage. Consistency!

Really? You're going to try to compare something both classes have access to with something they don't? Thieves guild is a single skill with no mechanics around it. Clones are the core aspect of mesmer. Stealth is neither for both but they have access to it. Try again.

I would suggest reveal on any skill use during stealth. Especially dash/blink skills. That makes stealth more broken. Maybe recompensate with some duration buffs, but I feel that blinking in and out with stealth is what makes stealth mechanic broken.

@"Widmo.3186" said:Hahahaha, guess which class does OP play. Q_Q teef stealth bad, UwU mezmer stealth gut. Watch your clones when you go into stealth m8.Tbh its kinda funny, this game has 8 years, and stealth was NOT EVEN ONCE changed since the very beginning. There were tons and tons of threads crying about how bad mechanic it is, with plenty of suggestions, yet nothing has been changed. And here we go again.

That Einstein quote is a misquotation just FYI. People just circulated it around because it sounds intellectual.

@Ovark.2514 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:Hahahaha, guess which class does OP play. Q_Q teef stealth bad, UwU mezmer stealth gut. Watch your clones when you go into stealth m8.Tbh its kinda funny, this game has 8 years, and stealth was NOT EVEN ONCE changed since the very beginning. There were tons and tons of threads crying about how bad mechanic it is, with plenty of suggestions, yet nothing has been changed. And here we go again.

wait what? people lie in the internet? no way.

I think that Stealth should end and apply reveal at the end of an Stealth Attack animation and at the start of any other attack, regardless of whether an attack connected with the opponent or not.

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:So basicly make thieves revealed when they don't do damage, but let mesmers stealth even while doing damage. Consistency!

I mean it's not like the comparison was deliberately bad to make a point, thank you for revealing to us that a mesmer clone is not the very same exact thing as a thieves guild summon. Now we all know. I hope the number of thieves trying to shatter their summons will radically decline now.But hey at least it has nothing to do with the original point, so we managed not to advance any meaningful discussion on why the same mechanic(stealth) should work different on some classes. My stance is still "stealth has it's rules, they are universal, deal with it". Your stance is... that mesmer clones aren't thieves guild summons? What even are you trying to argue for?

When it comes down to it, the main issue of "reveal on hit" stealth is that it's mechanically broken. Anets response to this has been to drastically reduce the duration of nearly every single stealth skill. This is IMO the worst way to go about it, because it makes stealth builds neither fun to play nor fun to play against. They aren't fun to play, because to maintain the stealth you need you are having to constantly disengage and chain skills with combo fields to stack the duration, making it feel like you are being forced to manage a clunky mechanic more than actually playing pvp. They aren't fun to play against, because the lack of interactivity caused by not being able to target them until they actually hit you means that even with a well timed block/evade you still have to deal with their stealth. This is not skillful gameplay, on either end.

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:So basicly make thieves revealed when they don't do damage, but let mesmers stealth even while doing damage. Consistency!

I never argued stealth should work differently between mesmers and thieves, even of mesmers don't have stealth attacks specifically. Let's spell things out so you don't get confused: any attack in stealth that is dodged should reveal the caster. Now you can stop trying to derail your own strawman you set up in the first place about different mechanics and skills.