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The Icebrood Saga: Champions Chapter 1 Trailer

Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭

Now do people believe the truce will be us and Jormag vs Primordius.

<13

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    Now do people believe the truce will be us and Jormag vs Primordius.

    Yeah seemed to be the case based on preview, especially with the wording.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    Sadly it seems Anet have gone that route. Just bizarre it really it is

    Half a season set up specifically to show why we must not trust Jormag. Why we are in conflict. Now we're supposed to believe we can enter a truce and trust them because of another Dragon? I mean that is so going to end well isn't it

    I don't think they even proof read their story arcs sometimes

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    Uhm, i hoped Primordus would have his own saga. Instead it looks like he will be the villain for the last part of IBS. :/

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:
    Uhm, i hoped Primordus would have his own saga. Instead it looks like he will be the villain for the last part of IBS. :/

    Unless it ends in a surprise twist ending where Primordus kills Jormag, and flies off.

    But yeah, looks like anet is rushing the Primrodus plotline.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One thing to note. We see plenty of allies in this trailer... but no Icebrood beyond Bangar, who hates Jormag.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Sadly it seems Anet have gone that route. Just bizarre it really it is

    Half a season set up specifically to show why we must not trust Jormag. Why we are in conflict. Now we're supposed to believe we can enter a truce and trust them because of another Dragon? I mean that is so going to end well isn't it

    I don't think they even proof read their story arcs sometimes

    Lesser of two evils. Primodus' minions are literally called Destroyers. His domain is fire and conflagration.

    This was going to happen since we sent them both to sleep. We are past the point of them mentioning Jormag is ice and persuasion. And has minions that can at least be spoken with.

    Now we need ice stuff to deal with the fire dragon. Which we were going to need anyway after the machine was destroyed.

    I don't know how clearer they could get after this trailer that Primordus was always the bigger threat and we need Jormag's help to defeat him.

    Jormag's ultimate goal is the same, the method is just different. There is no advantage in siding with it and they've made that clearer than anything else for a long time now. It's why Glint's Legacy exists - so we have a "good" Elder Dragon on our side to go up against others. I never liked that direction, but at least it made sense
    Taking Jormag's aid is absolutely not a good idea at all and our Commander will be putting back on the usual "idiot hat" by doing so.

    Not only has Jormag proven to be completely manipulative and untrustworthy, but having access to the Mists gives it greater reach, great power and the risk of going down a route similar to Kralk.

    There was never any real need to bring Primordus into the story right now, but it's clear the current writing team are bored with Dragons and just want to rush them out the door and shoe horning a truce which makes no real sense is one of the consequences.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    One thing to note. We see plenty of allies in this trailer... but no Icebrood beyond Bangar, who hates Jormag.

    My guess is the truce is set up at the end of the chapter as consequence after the events we play through in whatever story we get

    Also, people are saying they saw Ryland in there. Is that correct or are people confusing him with Bangar?

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Sir Alric.5078 said:
    Uhm, i hoped Primordus would have his own saga. Instead it looks like he will be the villain for the last part of IBS. :/

    Could have his protagonism in the third expansion, with the Icebrood Saga: Champions working as a "prologue".

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Sadly it seems Anet have gone that route. Just bizarre it really it is

    Half a season set up specifically to show why we must not trust Jormag. Why we are in conflict. Now we're supposed to believe we can enter a truce and trust them because of another Dragon? I mean that is so going to end well isn't it

    I don't think they even proof read their story arcs sometimes

    Lesser of two evils. Primodus' minions are literally called Destroyers. His domain is fire and conflagration.

    This was going to happen since we sent them both to sleep. We are past the point of them mentioning Jormag is ice and persuasion. And has minions that can at least be spoken with.

    Now we need ice stuff to deal with the fire dragon. Which we were going to need anyway after the machine was destroyed.

    I don't know how clearer they could get after this trailer that Primordus was always the bigger threat and we need Jormag's help to defeat him.

    Jormag's ultimate goal is the same, the method is just different. There is no advantage in siding with it and they've made that clearer than anything else for a long time now. It's why Glint's Legacy exists - so we have a "good" Elder Dragon on our side to go up against others. I never liked that direction, but at least it made sense

    Jormags goal is to eat magic until they fall asleep. Then wake up and do it again. If that involves the destruction of all life so be it. But that doesn't have to be the case as long as they get fed.

    Taking Jormag's aid is absolutely not a good idea at all and our Commander will be putting back on the usual "idiot hat" by doing so.

    Not only has Jormag proven to be completely manipulative and untrustworthy, but having access to the Mists gives it greater reach, great power and the risk of going down a route similar to Kralk.

    There was never any real need to bring Primordus into the story right now, but it's clear the current writing team are bored with Dragons and just want to rush them out the door and shoe horning a truce which makes no real sense is one of the consequences.

    Aurene is the dragon of Fury/Crystal and likely a bunch of Shadow and maybe a little Mind.

    To depict her powers is simple. Magic was already said to operate like light by Taimi. And no one bats an eye when someone in control of crystals and shadows is now a walking prism.

    But Jormag is the Elder Dragon of Ice and Persuasion. The ice part is easy. Persuasion is something you have to work at to show. They have literally told us in game they like to take their time. They don't force things, they slowly win people over. This isn't shoehorning, it's character development.

    Jormag won't force us to help them defeat their major weakness. We will come willingly because Primordus is going to destroy large parts of the world. That's how it always was going to be from the time we sent them both to sleep. Unless there is another random magical bow out there that can damage Primordus. We require their help.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Aurene is the dragon of Fury/Crystal and likely a bunch of Shadow and maybe a little Mind.

    Aurene is the dragon of light.

  • @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    One thing to note. We see plenty of allies in this trailer... but no Icebrood beyond Bangar, who hates Jormag.

    My guess is the truce is set up at the end of the chapter as consequence after the events we play through in whatever story we get

    Also, people are saying they saw Ryland in there. Is that correct or are people confusing him with Bangar?

    Ryland is there, you can hear him talk and see him fight with his flamesaw.

    I believe Councillor Zudo will be part of this release (I noticed her character model). There's a good chance her sister Ludo will be there too.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Sadly it seems Anet have gone that route. Just bizarre it really it is

    Half a season set up specifically to show why we must not trust Jormag. Why we are in conflict. Now we're supposed to believe we can enter a truce and trust them because of another Dragon? I mean that is so going to end well isn't it

    I don't think they even proof read their story arcs sometimes

    Jormag does appear to be the lesser of the two evils...

  • I had a feeling Bangar would end up being on our side and I'm happy to see hints of that in the trailer :)

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Aurene is the dragon of Fury/Crystal and likely a bunch of Shadow and maybe a little Mind.

    Aurene is the dragon of light.

    Light is not a discrete domain like Ice, Persuasion, Fire, Conflagration, etc.

    When Aurene replaced Kralkatorrik she absorbed Fury and Crystal, along with what he received from the deaths of Zhaitan/Mordremoth/Balthazar (parts of Death/Shadow, Plant/Mind, and War). She also got something from eating Joko.

    This is why Jormag calls her the dragon of prisms. She is a crystal dragon with several domains filtering through her like light.

    She has way more powers than being a walking rainbow. It just happens in this case that light is also a common thread among three or more of the domains she has. Crystal, Fury (which contains Sun), and Shadow. Maybe Plant because bioluminescence

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Light is not a discrete domain like Ice, Persuasion, Fire, Conflagration, etc.

    Its what Anet called Aurene's domain on the Icebrood Saga magazine they put out.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    holy...... that Jormag voice.
    they could employ jormag as "narrator of events".

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Light is not a discrete domain like Ice, Persuasion, Fire, Conflagration, etc.

    Its what Anet called Aurene's domain on the Icebrood Saga magazine they put out.

    Yes. But it's not what Jormag calls her in game. While Aurene refers to Jormag as Ice and Persuasion.

    Light is not a single leftover from the many many things that were inside Kralkatorrik. It is the catch-all term that Anet uses.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    holy...... that Jormag voice.
    they could employ jormag as "narrator of events".

    That was well done. They've combined Jormag's voice with Bangar's well there. I hope we can replay the Bangar dialogue sequences with those voices as well

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Yes. But it's not what Jormag calls her in game.

    Yes, Jormag calls her "Elder Dragon of Prisms" which are used to split light

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nice to see Tengu, Stone Dwarves, Kodan, and Exalted, as future allies. A little bit more of some of the more "side" races/faction is nice.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Yes. But it's not what Jormag calls her in game.

    Yes, Jormag calls her "Elder Dragon of Prisms" which are used to split light

    Yes. But it's important to remember that Light is a supercategory of multiple things. Aurene can ressurect the dead, create hive minds, summon crystals, etc.

    If you filtered all the magic inside her. The vast majority is Fury and Crystal from Kralkatorrik. Which contain sunlight (remember zephyrite crystals) and prisms. They make up the largest part of Light.

    Then there is maybe Shadows, bioluminescence from Plants or illusions from Mind. All the extra stuff adds onto the theme of Light and you get this design of a prism with a bunch of colors. Both because she has probably the most influence over the substance of light of any dragon and because she is filtering magic from several different domains like a prism separates light.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Yes. But it's not what Jormag calls her in game.

    Yes, Jormag calls her "Elder Dragon of Prisms" which are used to split light

    Indeed, and if you click on her in the Eye of the North, she's called the Elder Prismatic Dragon.

  • From the Norn's perspective, is this even remotely a good idea? Jormag pushed them out of the northern Shiverpeaks... aka their HOME. countless Norn lost their lives to that dragon. and now a truce is on the horizon because the Big One is attacking? From a lore perspective, I really do not see how any Norn, with the exception of the Sons of Svanir, would agree to a truce with Jormag. ever.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm very curious how this is going to play out too.

    4 more episodes of IBS.. and now Primordus is coming in?
    I have to say, if episode 4 ends with the death of Primordus I am going to be seriously, seriously!! disappointed no matter how they do it.
    Primordus was setup all the way back in Gw1.. was teased in LW3 and has been one of the most inactive yet hyped Dragons in the game.
    4 Episodes to build him up and take him down is absolutely unacceptable and I expect people are going to be mad as kitten if that happens XD

    End of Dragons we can strongly speculate will be about the sea dragon, the logo alone is a dead give away as all expansion logos feature an Elder Dragon that will be a part of that expansion.
    But the question I have to ask now is will EoD be just about the Sea Dragon.. or will all 4 Elder Dragons play a part in it and meet their end.. giving the expansion it's name..
    If this is the End of Dragons.. then it kinda does suggest that at the conclusion of the expansion there won't be Elder Dragons anymore least not as we know them.. and if the Sea Dragon is the only Elder antagonist then that would mean Jormag and Primordus will likely die within the next 4 episodes.
    This soon after Kralkatorrik and again loosing 2 more or the games biggest main antagonists outside of a paid expansion would be pretty disappointing and feel very very rushed.

    Out of both scenarios I really really hope End of Dragons features a 4 Elder Dragon brawl instead.
    Maybe we fight Primordus in the IBS but he retreats underground.. tunnels his way to Cantha disturbing the Sea Dragon in the process and Jormag follows hunting him down with us and Aurine trailing behind and Cantha just get caught in the middle of this massive 4 way Elder Dragon warzone.
    God I hope we don't just off Primordus after 4 episodes.. it's not enough lol

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Yes. But it's not what Jormag calls her in game.

    Yes, Jormag calls her "Elder Dragon of Prisms" which are used to split light

    Indeed, and if you click on her in the Eye of the North, she's called the Elder Prismatic Dragon.

    Literally no one is contesting that. Just that Light refers to more than just Light.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I'm very curious how this is going to play out too.

    4 more episodes of IBS.. and now Primordus is coming in?
    I have to say, if episode 4 ends with the death of Primordus I am going to be seriously, seriously!! disappointed no matter how they do it.
    Primordus was setup all the way back in Gw1.. was teased in LW3 and has been one of the most inactive yet hyped Dragons in the game.
    4 Episodes to build him up and take him down is absolutely unacceptable and I expect people are going to be mad as kitten if that happens XD

    End of Dragons we can strongly speculate will be about the sea dragon, the logo alone is a dead give away as all expansion logos feature an Elder Dragon that will be a part of that expansion.
    But the question I have to ask now is will EoD be just about the Sea Dragon.. or will all 4 Elder Dragons play a part in it and meet their end.. giving the expansion it's name..
    If this is the End of Dragons.. then it kinda does suggest that at the conclusion of the expansion there won't be Elder Dragons anymore least not as we know them.. and if the Sea Dragon is the only Elder antagonist then that would mean Jormag and Primordus will likely die within the next 4 episodes.
    This soon after Kralkatorrik and again loosing 2 more or the games biggest main antagonists outside of a paid expansion would be pretty disappointing and feel very very rushed.

    Out of both scenarios I really really hope End of Dragons features a 4 Elder Dragon brawl instead.
    Maybe we fight Primordus in the IBS but he retreats underground.. tunnels his way to Cantha disturbing the Sea Dragon in the process and Jormag follows hunting him down with us and Aurine trailing behind and Cantha just get caught in the middle of this massive 4 way Elder Dragon warzone.
    God I hope we don't just off Primordus after 4 episodes.. it's not enough lol

    "You dying doesn't help us kill Primordus" sounds especially foreboding given that killing any of the dragons without a replacement is a terrible idea.

    End of Dragons is plural. So unless the sea dragon is a hydra and counts as two. There is going to more than one dragon left after this arc is over.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What is interesting is that Jormag refers to Primordus as "he"

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Sadly it seems Anet have gone that route. Just bizarre it really it is

    Half a season set up specifically to show why we must not trust Jormag. Why we are in conflict. Now we're supposed to believe we can enter a truce and trust them because of another Dragon? I mean that is so going to end well isn't it

    I don't think they even proof read their story arcs sometimes

    We have to wait and see why the Truce happens.

    Considering the episode's name, it is possible the events here is about what force the Commander's hand into accepting a truce with Jormag for now due to Primordius actions then having the Truce happen at the final moments of the episode.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2020

    Until we secure Elder dragon replacements, containment is the only option open to the Commander. As long as we can confirm the source of the new minions and those minions are willing to attack Jormag, their minions and the Sons of Svanir, a truce would save lives the Commander and their allies care about. A truce is rational and happen all the time in the real world.

    I like this direction and I hope the studio spends enough words to explore the territory it opens.

    Ryland is a foil to the Commander. How do their personalities differ? Does the mechanical difference in their creation effect their potential? Ryland and the Commander are vessels for Elder Dragon magic. Would the Commander agree to allow Aurene to change them as much as Jormag has changed Ryland?

    The best play for Primordus, the DSD and Jormag is to contain Aurene while eating enough magic. Their best strategy is business as usual. The optimal strategy for any Elder Dragon is to eat enough to survive, perhaps grow, while preventing the other Elder Dragons from eating your share. The group would have to work against any Elder Dragon killing other Elder Dragons or risk destroying their home. Jormag could be completely rational or pathologically realizing their domain. Is Primordus rational or will they pathologically realize their domain? Must he make a burning broken world a reality?

    Imo, replacing 6 Elder dragons became even less likely. The magiphysics of being a cosmic scaled vessel for magic has been hiding in plain site as a narrative device. The Godness of order, spirit and truth took over much of Kormir's personhood. Balthazar couldn't stop realizing or talking about their domain. The Elder Dragon's main personality is indistinguishable from their domains. Aurene is an exception but that may be temporary. Jormag has a Champion and some attachment to mortals. That is essentially all Aurene has but to a lesser degree. The Commander is obviously the superior Champion. What Aurene has may not be enough.

    I can't wait to hear more from Jormag. If I am right and the studio uses enough words, we will get to know a terrifying and tragic person.

    weathering's everything

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I'm very curious how this is going to play out too.

    4 more episodes of IBS.. and now Primordus is coming in?
    I have to say, if episode 4 ends with the death of Primordus I am going to be seriously, seriously!! disappointed no matter how they do it.
    Primordus was setup all the way back in Gw1.. was teased in LW3 and has been one of the most inactive yet hyped Dragons in the game.
    4 Episodes to build him up and take him down is absolutely unacceptable and I expect people are going to be mad as kitten if that happens XD

    End of Dragons we can strongly speculate will be about the sea dragon, the logo alone is a dead give away as all expansion logos feature an Elder Dragon that will be a part of that expansion.
    But the question I have to ask now is will EoD be just about the Sea Dragon.. or will all 4 Elder Dragons play a part in it and meet their end.. giving the expansion it's name..
    If this is the End of Dragons.. then it kinda does suggest that at the conclusion of the expansion there won't be Elder Dragons anymore least not as we know them.. and if the Sea Dragon is the only Elder antagonist then that would mean Jormag and Primordus will likely die within the next 4 episodes.
    This soon after Kralkatorrik and again loosing 2 more or the games biggest main antagonists outside of a paid expansion would be pretty disappointing and feel very very rushed.

    Out of both scenarios I really really hope End of Dragons features a 4 Elder Dragon brawl instead.
    Maybe we fight Primordus in the IBS but he retreats underground.. tunnels his way to Cantha disturbing the Sea Dragon in the process and Jormag follows hunting him down with us and Aurine trailing behind and Cantha just get caught in the middle of this massive 4 way Elder Dragon warzone.
    God I hope we don't just off Primordus after 4 episodes.. it's not enough lol

    "You dying doesn't help us kill Primordus" sounds especially foreboding given that killing any of the dragons without a replacement is a terrible idea.

    End of Dragons is plural. So unless the sea dragon is a hydra and counts as two. There is going to more than one dragon left after this arc is over.

    I think that's more about the truce.. Bangar giving clarity on who he sees as his real enemy.. not us basically.

    Aurine still counts as an Elder so End of Dragons could be just her and Sea Dragon.. but I hope it's more than that.
    Primordus only getting half a season before being killed off just isn't enough and it'll feel so rushed if they do that.

    Who know's Primordus might just win and instead kill Jormag.. could happen.
    Jormag seems very concerned about Primordus though.. it must know something that we do not because if it's so keen on allying with us and Aurine to fight Primordus then it must be afraid of him.. that could suggest Primordus is more powerful or at the very least more dangerous.

  • Saga.1839Saga.1839 Member ✭✭

    Really bad writing.
    Make Jormag talk about this inevitable doom coming, and it ends up being the fire elder dragon instead of mother or something else big. Duh we already knew that.

  • @TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:
    I had a feeling Bangar would end up being on our side and I'm happy to see hints of that in the trailer :)

    I just rewatched the trailer and it's not Bangar, it's Ryland I think.

  • I fully expect a backstab from Jormag ,it's just a matter of time.

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:
    Uhm, i hoped Primordus would have his own saga. Instead it looks like he will be the villain for the last part of IBS. :/

    Unless it ends in a surprise twist ending where Primordus kills Jormag, and flies off.

    But yeah, looks like anet is rushing the Primrodus plotline.

    Because we already got EotN in GW1, there is little to add since Primordus is all about destruction and the Destroyers are nothing but hivemind minions.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Sadly it seems Anet have gone that route. Just bizarre it really it is

    Half a season set up specifically to show why we must not trust Jormag. Why we are in conflict. Now we're supposed to believe we can enter a truce and trust them because of another Dragon? I mean that is so going to end well isn't it

    I don't think they even proof read their story arcs sometimes

    Lesser of two evils. Primodus' minions are literally called Destroyers. His domain is fire and conflagration.

    This was going to happen since we sent them both to sleep. We are past the point of them mentioning Jormag is ice and persuasion. And has minions that can at least be spoken with.

    Now we need ice stuff to deal with the fire dragon. Which we were going to need anyway after the machine was destroyed.

    I don't know how clearer they could get after this trailer that Primordus was always the bigger threat and we need Jormag's help to defeat him.

    Jormag's ultimate goal is the same, the method is just different. There is no advantage in siding with it and they've made that clearer than anything else for a long time now. It's why Glint's Legacy exists - so we have a "good" Elder Dragon on our side to go up against others. I never liked that direction, but at least it made sense
    Taking Jormag's aid is absolutely not a good idea at all and our Commander will be putting back on the usual "idiot hat" by doing so.

    Not only has Jormag proven to be completely manipulative and untrustworthy, but having access to the Mists gives it greater reach, great power and the risk of going down a route similar to Kralk.

    There was never any real need to bring Primordus into the story right now, but it's clear the current writing team are bored with Dragons and just want to rush them out the door and shoe horning a truce which makes no real sense is one of the consequences.

    From story building point of view Jormag has The Commander checkmated even if he doesn't want to deal with it. There are 2 Active Elder dragons at the same time, one is pure destruction, the other can go in the mists and pop out anywhere, the thing is one is willing to talk it out and going on 2 fronts on the same time would not be wise idea. So I at least hope that when Jormag pulls the I was EEEVIL all along, The Commander would get a sarcastic theatrical 'Ou, no what will we do, the betrayal' with ready plat for once, without the whole pants on the ground plot line repeat.

  • radda.8920radda.8920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2020

    why is everyone talking about bangar as an ally? we see him just at the end of the teaser, in his cage.
    The other charr that fights a destroyer and fight with us is ryland
    https://youtu.be/Oia0077XgtI?t=98
    The same armor and head

  • Kossage.9072Kossage.9072 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2020

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Now we need ice stuff to deal with the fire dragon. Which we were going to need anyway after the machine was destroyed.

    I don't know how clearer they could get after this trailer that Primordus was always the bigger threat and we need Jormag's help to defeat him. The reason it's coming after making Jormag seem menacing is because its supposed to be a hard choice.

    The thing is that we don't really need Jormag's help to defeat Primordus and vice versa, and thanks to Glint and Mist Wardens, we may already have the solution to our lack of Omadd's machine dilemma.

    Given that Glint was somehow able to find both Eir and Snaff's ghosts and recruit them to Gwen's Mist Wardens and send them to Tyria to warn us, it means Glint has been able to visit norn and asura afterlives (Eir was at peace with her death, so she shouldn't have entered the limbo of the Domain of the Lost where only those who died violent, sudden deaths while having unfinished business end up in until they're guided to their proper afterlives). Assuming that Dhuum hasn't devoured their souls, it means Omadd and Scarlet/Ceara should still exist as ghosts in whatever afterlives they're currently in. It should be easy enough for Glint and/or Gwen to delegate Mist Wardens to search for these ghosts and bring them to Tyria where they could be joined by Snaff's ghost and Taimi to rebuild Omadd's machine as Taimi's Machine 2.0.

    We can then ask an audience with Jormag via Bangar and once Jormag speaks and sees through Bangar, we present them with the rebuilt Omadd's machine and threaten to press the button. This time, of course, Taimi's Machine 2.0 wouldn't have the fatal flaw the first machine had and it wouldn't lead to either Primordus or Jormag's deaths but instead keep them in hibernation indefinitely. That threat should give Jormag enough pause to realize they shouldn't mess with us; and even if we lost that machine, we could just have Taimi, Snaff, Omadd and Ceara build a bunch of new ones as they combine their scientific minds together.

    So, when is my Commander going to remember these details from prior seasons, talk to Aurene and ask her to contact Glint and/or Gwen so they can bring back Omadd and Ceara's ghosts to aid us? While the Mists are still open and ghosts are manifesting here and there, this should be child's play. If they could already bring Snaff back as a ghost, finding those two spectral rogues shouldn't be much of a challenge for the Mist Wardens either. :)

    We also know from past Elder Dragon encounters that Elder Dragons do in fact seem to have multiple weaknesses despite what the Rata Novan records implied:

    1) Zhaitan was defeated in part by using its own Death magic against it during the final battle (see e.g. the cannons and the MEGA-LIT that used Gorr's vacuumagic polarizer tech that polarized and shot back Zhaitan's magic).

    2) Mordremoth was defeated with a combination of Mind magic and Plant magic. The former via entering the Dream to battle Mordy's mind and turning the mind's evil manifestations of our friends into our allies to deprive the avatar of their protective power. The latter via plunging Caladbolg (a thorn of the Pale Tree who has deep ties to Mordy and thus access to some purified form of Plant magic as seen via the Artesian Waters in the Zhaitan campaign) into Mordy's last physical host to finish the last seed of the Jungle Dragon's mind off for good.

    3) Kralkatorrik was defeated with Crystal magic due to the resonance of the Branded, Aurene, and the Dragonsblood Spears.

    I could write off the deaths of two dragons via their greatest strength as a mere happy coincidence, but three deaths involving such seems to suggest a pattern. If we follow this line of reasoning, Jormag's great Ice magic could thus be potentially used against it as well.

    Presently the story has revealed multiple weaknesses for dragons:

    1) Turning the dragons' own magic spectrum aka their greatest strength against them (see the examples with the three dragons above).

    2) Their opposite dragon's magic in the All (Primordus vs. Jormag confirmed, Zhaitan vs. Mordremoth heavily implied via the way we damaged the Unstable Abomination by exposing it to both Death and Plant magic during S3Ep3, and thus Kralkatorrik/Aurene should theoretically be the direct opponent of the deep sea dragon if this pattern holds).

    3) "Poisoning" magic and force-feeding a weakened dragon with it as seen with the battle against Zhaitan and how Gorr's experiments on Risen worked. Granted, this could simply be a part of example 1 given how we used Death magic there.

    4) Gods' divine magic (aka magic foreign to Tyria) as seen with the Divine Fire scaring off Mordrem and finishing off the Shadow of the Dragon in Season 2, or how djinn gained immunity to Branding via using Abaddon's remnant magic in the sands (until Kralk consumed Balthazar and managed to circumvent this protection) and how Kormir's fire protected Sun's Refuge from Branded until they figured out a loophole via Mist rifts.

    5) Native Tyrian (spirit?) magic. See e.g. the three Lost Spirits using their power to help Braham defeat Drakkar for good, or how the kodan use the Spirit of Fire's remnant power in Koda's Flame to ward off Icebrood and protect themselves from the blizzard in Bitterfrost Frontier. This could potentially be classified under the "divine" magic listed in Example 4 (as devs have referred to the Spirits as norn "deities" in a very general sense a couple of times) except this magic is native to Tyria rather than originating from elsewhere in the Mists. It's unknown if the Blue and Golden Orbs (presently warding Fort Trinity and the Pyrite Peninsula, respectively) are related to this kind of magic or something else entirely, but they do oppose dragon corruption to some degree as well.

    As such, I'd argue that the Rata Novans' research, while impressive, was left incomplete due to the sudden chak invasion, so they only figured out that each dragon had seemingly one distinctive weakness when we see from the above examples that several general weaknesses do in fact exist and are shared by at least some of the dragons in the All. While there's no definite proof that all dragons share all of the above weaknesses (even less so now that there's a chance that all the remaining dragons may have gained some of Balthazar's magic and can thus circumvent the protection of divine magic), it's certainly a possibility given the aforementioned evidence.

    And thus the Sanguinary Blade (created from Jormag's frozen blood and currently held in the Priory) could in fact tie into the story somehow if Jormag finds a way to destroy any weapon(s) enchanted by jotun scrolls' fire (although curiously Ryland held on to Braham's fire bow rather than destroying it) and if it finds a way to counter Koda's Flame (should that S3 story ever be referenced in the saga) and we need to start figuring out alternative ways to face Jormag. Given how three dragons have already fallen to their greatest strength, perhaps Jormag will follow this pattern in some way too. I'd prefer the Sanguinary Blade ending in the hands of Ryland for a symbolic clash between Flame (Sohothin, representing the divine fire of a god) and Frost (Sanguinary Blade, representing the icy power of an Elder Dragon) should Rytlock have to face Ryland in battle as the announcement trailer and related concept art implies.

    We also have this fascinating tidbit from Mattul Krigheset's proposed idea of using the Fang of the Serpent as a ballista projectile against Jormag:

    Mattul Krigheset: One night, I was lying on my furs, trying to sleep, and it struck me. How are we going to battle a creature as vast and powerful as Jormag? We haven't even broken his tooth yet!
    Player: And?
    Mattul Krigheset: And so, what if we made a weapon out of the tooth? A giant ballista with the tooth as it's projectile! What do you think?
    Player: How?
    Mattul Krigheset: By lashing it to a caber, like a giant dart. With the right amount of force, it would pierce the dragon's hide and bore straight into its black heart!
    Player: Devious and inventive! Good luck with it.

    If one of Jormag's weaknesses was in fact its own icy power as suggested above, then using the fang as such a weapon against the Ice Dragon would be a lovely, devious move: turning Jormag's token of manipulating Asgeir and the norn into an actual weapon against the dragon in an ironic twist that would fit the epic narratives in Norse sagas! :)

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Also, people are saying they saw Ryland in there. Is that correct or are people confusing him with Bangar?

    Ryland chats with the Commander early on and is seen fighting destroyers with his trusty blade (too bad he hasn't stolen the Sanguinary Blade from the Priory yet; that weapon forged from Jormag's frozen blood would be so overpowered as a single nick from it instantly turns any victim into an icebrood as seen in the Magister Sieran storyline, so it'd be mighty effective against destroyers!). Bangar is only shown at the very end speaking to us from the cage. Aside from the different horns, here's how to tell Ryland and Bangar apart: Ryland has corrupted eyes, a scar crossing his eye (courtesy of Braham), and looks like a frosty Rytlock; Bangar has golden eyes and looks like Scar (ironically without any facial scar) from The Lion King. :)

    @Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324 said:
    I believe Councillor Zudo will be part of this release (I noticed her character model). There's a good chance her sister Ludo will be there too.

    It was nice seeing the lovely Zudo there (College of Dynamics represent!). Going to be interesting to find out if all of the Arcane Council (including the ever-scheming Councillor Haia and High Councillor Flax) show up eventually too and get some development. When is Flax going to start his asuran supremacy campaign and enslave his own Elder Dragon? Maybe the Inquest can help him realize his dreams. :)

    @blackheartgary.8605 said:
    From the Norn's perspective, is this even remotely a good idea? Jormag pushed them out of the northern Shiverpeaks... aka their HOME. countless Norn lost their lives to that dragon. and now a truce is on the horizon because the Big One is attacking? From a lore perspective, I really do not see how any Norn, with the exception of the Sons of Svanir, would agree to a truce with Jormag. ever.

    Indeed. I see plenty of problems and division in the future, which may be part of Jormag's scheme to weaken our allied front with squabbles.

    I also worry what this chapter approach means for Knut Whitebear's story. I just can't see him and his sons, let alone his heroic wife Gaerta Whitebear, or the Spirits of the Wild, getting as much development as prior episodes would've offered. Vanilla GW2 was seemingly building up this notable storyline for the Whitebear family and the havrouns, but so far we've only touched a little on Jhavi's and Havroun Weibe's stories while not getting to speak with Snow Leopard and Bear yet. At least Jhavi showed up in the Truce trailer, so hopefully she'll receive some development and if we learn whether Laranthir will truly return in the post-Almorra political climate to take over as general or if he lets Jhavi take over instead while remaining as a Grand Warmaster.

    I can't see Knut Whitebear or his sons Sigfast and Skarti taking this "truce" with Jormag well, especially once they learn about Asgeir's journal and the truth about grandpa Asgeir's confrontation with the dragon. Realistically the news should've spread far and wide now (unless the Commander selfishly kept the journal to themself) and norn should be viewing the Whitebears' legend as tarnished due to Asgeir's betrayal. This is essentially all but a death sentence to the Whitebears who may never recover from their tarnished legacy unless they double their efforts to bring Jormag down, which means they shouldn't ever accept this truce. I imagine Sigfast, at least, would be furious about this and call the Commander out on selling out to the enemy. Perhaps this rage and jealousy towards the Commander's success (as hinted with Sigfast's dialogue) could be an avenue through which Jormag can start manipulating Sigfast for its own ends to fulfill the ominous prophecy surrounding Knut Whitebear ("...and the muttering voices will call for his blood.")?

    I'd also love to hear what Garm thinks about this truce with Jormag. So far Garm has been one of the few mortals who resisted Jormag's seductive whispers and survived as per his heroic moment in the Edge of Destiny novel where his loyalty to Eir overcame Jormag and the Dragonspawn's temptations. I'd love it if Jormag tried a different seduction and whispered about the fate of Garm's dire wolf pack. Years ago Angel McCoy teased that we may one day learn what happened to the rest of the dire wolves, how Eir and Garm met, and why Garm chose Eir as his alpha. I'd love to see this story be told one day and how it may be tied to Jormag's machinations. I even had a fun idea how it might tie the curious lore of Fenrir and the enigmatic two-headed kveldulves into it in case the dire wolves and kvelvulves had ancient pack rivalries that Jormag could've manipulated for its own ends, which could've led to a near annihilation of the more stout dire wolves and Garm's separation from the pack while the kveldulf pack might've embraced Jormag's gifts to overcome their direwolf rivals.

    Q: Some questions regarding Garm; how did he and Eir meet, and where specifically? And assuming dire wolves are by now extinct in Tyria (as well) with the only live specimen being him, what happened to the pack he was born into? Lastly, what happened between them that makes him follow Eir as his ‘alpha’?
    Angel McCoy: That’s a big story. I’ll put it into my list of possible ideas to tackle in a blog post. (Source)

    Then we have the case of keeping Bangar imprisoned with Crecia's blessing. Will the Iron Legion and the Vigil tolerate this judgement for long? Ember said the Vigil joined in the charr civil war to kill Bangar after his murder of General Almorra. Similarly, Iron Legion loyalists wanted Bangar and Ryland gone for Smodur's assassination. Now, imagine both of these factions learning that not only is the Commander keeping Bangar in a comfy cell for questionable intel but will also ally with the known assassin Ryland? Even if Mia Kindleshot won over the more aggressive Fume Brighteye and ascended as Iron Imperator, she would still have to find a means to avenge Smodur's death. The only way Iron would ever be satisfied as a whole is getting at least Ryland's head on a spike.

    How is the Commander going to juggle Iron and Vigil's howls for justice without angering either party due to this pact with Jormag? What prevents Ember Doomforge from sneaking into the Eye of the North and demanding Bangar to be released for a trial? If the Commander, Aurene and especially Crecia deny her by stating that Bangar and Ryland will be judged later (perhaps in the chapter titled Judgment), things will no doubt get spicy even if we had more moderate supporters from both factions stalling for time within their own ranks. Before long, both Iron and Vigil would no doubt send mobs to attack the Crystal Blooms or even send hunting squads after Ryland to bring back his head while also accusing the Commander for being a sellout.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    End of Dragons is plural. So unless the sea dragon is a hydra and counts as two. There is going to more than one dragon left after this arc is over.

    Interestingly enough "End of Dragons" can refer to more things than just the end of Elder Dragons and such. Shortly before the EoD teaser trailer, I posted my speculation about a potential name for the expansion, mentioning two possible titles: "Age of the Dragon", and "End of Dragons", with some lore reasons how these plots might fit into the previous villain-themed names of past expansions (Heart of Thorns, and Path of Fire). Afterwards, we had the EoD teaser, and I was happy to see that one of my title proposals had actually ended up as a name. Had the devs read my post and come to the same conclusion, or was it a happy coincidence, I doubt I'll never know, but it was a happy surprise nonetheless. :)

    Basically to me the titles I were proposing for the expansion would work for these reasons:

    1) Age of the Dragon is an actual age described in the Canthan calendar. It was initially named so because astrologers, emboldened by the empire's diplomatic successes and growing wealth at the time, joyously predicted a would-be prosperous future for the empire until Shiro and the Jade Wind messed things up.

    2) Among the Celestials, the Dragon is said to be a reminder of atrocity, pain, and anguish and linked to an empress named Tahmu. There are some intriguing parallels between this description and the Elder Dragons' cycle, and Elder Dragons' rises are even said to lead to changes in the constellation and new stars being born as shown by jotun discoveries.

    3) The ruling nation in Cantha is called the Empire of the Dragon which will likely, in part, play a somewhat antagonistic role at least in some parts of the expansion while also being a descriptive name for the setting the story takes place in based on the Shing Jea hints in the first teaser image and its filename. The Empire may attempt to pursue the Age of the Dragon where Cantha will reign supreme, involving the intelligent and speaking saltspray dragons who have great powers (e.g. Albax having the magical ability to grant mortals good or bad luck) and whom the Emperor, Empress and/or the Ministry of Purity may try to enslave to gain their magic.

    4) The expansion will involve one of the Elder Dragons in some manner. Age of the Dragon could thus have another meaning: not only would it describe the setting and the potentially antagonistic empire that we'll be facing, but it could also point to the overarching menace of the Elder Dragon in this plot even if said dragon was more in the background like Kralkatorrik was during PoF before becoming the main villain who replaces or overwhelms the more humanoid villains in case it attempts a genuine takeover of the continent.

    5) If we end up pursuing Glint and the Forgotten's suggestion to find multiple benevolent replacements for the Elder Dragons to keep the All's Antikytheria mechanism in balance as per the Glint's Legacy plan, the title could also refer to a hunt for these replacements, possibly tying in the fate of the saltspray dragons such as Albax, Kuunavang and Shiny and if they are worthy or capable enough to become such replacements.

    This way the title would both describe the setting and name the antagonist(s) (dragon and mortal alike) and their ambitions while also teasing a more hopeful outcome depending on what roles Aurene and the saltspray dragons play in the narrative as we move to a new age in the Canthan calendar. :)

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    Because we already got EotN in GW1, there is little to add since Primordus is all about destruction and the Destroyers are nothing but hivemind minions.

    To be fair, Primordus and Destroyers could be developed more than Kralkatorrik and Branded were. It was a shame the devs didn't expand Chief Kronon's role into a recurring antagonist in PoF and/or Season 4 given how his pre-Branded self hated Destiny's Edge, so it would've possibly added more motivation for him to kill Rytlock and company even if those feelings would be mixed with his servitude to Kralkatorrik.

    As for Primordus, he mostly forges his minions rather than corrupts living beings. However, there have been some cases (such as the Stone Summit) who ended up being corrupted via invoking his power. As the dragons know what their minions know, Primordus would've forcibly been made aware of the dwarves' language, society etc. via this absorption. As such, Primordus should be able to speak now if he didn't speak before beyond images (assuming that he even bothers communicating with anyone) and possibly learn to adapt to mortals' strategies by reading these corrupted mortals' minds. It could lead to some interesting drama via the creation of more intelligent destroyers who may be capable of speech and rationalizing beyond pure killing instinct, and how Primordus himself may be affected by these unwanted changes.

    I hope that Primordus won't just become a more single-minded version of Kralkatorrik and that we actually get to hear him speak (I wonder which VA they'd give him). While the plots so far have shown him as rather animalistic and destructive, I'd be up for a twist where he's revealed to be far more intelligent and eloquent than meets the eye and that there's a reason why he mostly prefers not to corrupt living beings and why he may seem to want to end all life. :)

  • @Kossage.9072 said:
    To be fair, Primordus and Destroyers could be developed more than Kralkatorrik and Branded were. It was a shame the devs didn't expand Chief Kronon's role into a recurring antagonist in PoF and/or Season 4 given how his pre-Branded self hated Destiny's Edge, so it would've possibly added more motivation for him to kill Rytlock and company even if those feelings would be mixed with his servitude to Kralkatorrik.

    As for Primordus, he mostly forges his minions rather than corrupts living beings. However, there have been some cases (such as the Stone Summit) who ended up being corrupted via invoking his power. As the dragons know what their minions know, Primordus would've forcibly been made aware of the dwarves' language, society etc. via this absorption. As such, Primordus should be able to speak now if he didn't speak before beyond images (assuming that he even bothers communicating with anyone) and possibly learn to adapt to mortals' strategies by reading these corrupted mortals' minds. It could lead to some interesting drama via the creation of more intelligent destroyers who may be capable of speech and rationalizing beyond pure killing instinct, and how Primordus himself may be affected by these unwanted changes.

    I hope that Primordus won't just become a more single-minded version of Kralkatorrik and that we actually get to hear him speak (I wonder which VA they'd give him). While the plots so far have shown him as rather animalistic and destructive, I'd be up for a twist where he's revealed to be far more intelligent and eloquent than meets the eye and that there's a reason why he mostly prefers not to corrupt living beings and why he may seem to want to end all life. :)

    The Branded got very little plot and Kralkatorrik is all about Glint's offspring. It still felt a bit forced and came from nowhere about his personality.

    I don't think Primordus needs to speak, it would be better to keep it as a massive powerful beast with the goal of destruction. There are only 4 episodes and it's still mainly about Jormag. Try to add something new would feel very forced and rushed.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    theres any hint of new map i missed, or will be just invasions on old maps?

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • radda.8920radda.8920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2020

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    theres any hint of new map i missed, or will be just invasions on old maps?

    no new map for future episodes. Or maybe just one for the last episode to finish the saga
    Just 5 player instanced invasions

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    Well it has been speculated that it was going to end up being a Jormag vs Primordius storyline for a while anyways.

    Certain people speculated already that the Commander and allies may side with Jormag or have this war turn into a three way war and the result is the side with Jormag theory. Now it is only a matter of why we have this truce which this episode may focus on with the truce maybe happening at the end of the episode due to the focus os Episode 1 about the reason behind the truce.

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2020

    Perhaps each of the chapters will be about (re)introducing each of the remaining living elder dragons, setting them up for the "End of Dragons".

    Primordus: Truce (not alliance). Primordu's destructive forces means the armies of Tyria can't muster forces against Jormag. But Jormag doesn't turn it's army against them. So there is no chance of fighting between Jormag and mortals. Aa de-facto truce even if mortals don't intend to hold it.

    Jormag: Power. Jormag promises power to it's followers. The commander will have to ask Jormag to directly intervene against Primordus in some way. But Jormag's power doesn't come free, and asking for it is a serious act of desperation.

    Aurene: Balance. The prismatic dragon. The dragon with the potential to hold magic in balance. The commander seeks advice from their dragon. They wonder how they can use Jormags power to keep Primodus in check, but worry of Jormag's wish to eliminate Primodus and wrecking the balance they have worked for. Aurene attempts to intervene, but is simply too inexperienced an incapable of resolving the situation.

    S.............: Judgement. No choice can restore balance. Nonetheless a choice must be made and judgement follows. The fight wears on the mortals of Tyria, with ice down their backs, and flames at their feet. They once saw hope and light in Aurene but the light dims, and each must face the consequences of ice or fire. But another force watches closely spying on all, and seeking to keep track of who has control. It patiently waits weighing the possibilities, reveling in the squabbles of it's peers. Regardless of the tides of battle, it will ensure it will be the Judge of it all and have the final say...

    And when it is ready to act, It knows to whom to reveal itself to. Champion of one dragon, envy of another, bane of the third, and slayer of the rest. Hero of the mortals. It speaks to this transcendent mortal, the Commander, it's final Judgement. It is time for the "End of Dragons". So buy the expansion now.

    Hmmm.. well that is enough making up kittens for me, for now.

  • Now I wonder.. Will that announcement trailer shot with Jormag's army marching on what seemed to be EotN never come to pass?

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arsene.3568 said:
    Now I wonder.. Will that announcement trailer shot with Jormag's army marching on what seemed to be EotN never come to pass?

    Could still come to pass at the end of the saga. Our allies are apparently going to be showing up at the eye of the north. Maybe after Jormag’s eventual betrayal.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Could still come to pass at the end of the saga. Our allies are apparently going to be showing up at the eye of the north. Maybe after Jormag’s eventual betrayal.

    Yeah. Even if Primrodus is such an uber big threat that we can't possibly stop without Jormag's help(which I don't buy for a second) Jormag isn't good, and has made that clear throughout the saga.

    There will be some sort of reckoning.

  • Maybe end of dragons is the fall of Cantha empire it is referee to as the dragon empire. Also I hope that I won't have to make truce with Jormag.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    A truce isn't an alliance. A truce is a cease-fire. It's not like we'd be cooperatively working with Jormag, if we assumed the 'truce' pertains to them. The dictionary definition of a truce is simply an agreement to stop fighting (or arguing) for a time. So we agree to stop actively combating Jormag and their Icebrood until the Primordus threat is resolved, and they agree to leave us alone too. It's not that we trust Jormag, more that Primordus' seeming intent to wipe out all life (combined with their unfathomably far-reach) takes precedence.

  • Stone Dwarves!
    That is all.

  • @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    One thing to note. We see plenty of allies in this trailer... but no Icebrood beyond Bangar, who hates Jormag.

    My guess is the truce is set up at the end of the chapter as consequence after the events we play through in whatever story we get

    Also, people are saying they saw Ryland in there. Is that correct or are people confusing him with Bangar?

    I find it funny people keep mistaking Ryland for Bangar. Both were in the trailer. I mean, Ryland was even carrying his iconic flamesaw greatsword - now with blue flames!

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Jormags goal is to eat magic until they fall asleep. Then wake up and do it again. If that involves the destruction of all life so be it. But that doesn't have to be the case as long as they get fed.

    That's the result. That's not the goal.

    None of the Elder Dragons' goals are "eat magic until they fall asleep, then wake up and do it again". That's just the result of six Elder Dragons trying to gorge themselves on magic, and the ignorant masses believed that to be their goal. But each Elder Dragon has their own goal - Kralkatorrik's goal, for example, was to literally consume and destroy all things because "torment promised that will end the pain".

    Jormag's ultimate goal is not 100% clear, but the best indication has been "to preserve Tyria". To that end, Jormag is willing to change its ways (or so it claims), and might have been the only Elder Dragon willing to go to sleep while the others struggled to get every scrap of magic they could to remain awake.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Aurene is the dragon of Fury/Crystal and likely a bunch of Shadow and maybe a little Mind.

    Aurene is the dragon of light.

    Light is not a discrete domain like Ice, Persuasion, Fire, Conflagration, etc.

    When Aurene replaced Kralkatorrik she absorbed Fury and Crystal, along with what he received from the deaths of Zhaitan/Mordremoth/Balthazar (parts of Death/Shadow, Plant/Mind, and War). She also got something from eating Joko.

    This is why Jormag calls her the dragon of prisms. She is a crystal dragon with several domains filtering through her like light.

    She has way more powers than being a walking rainbow. It just happens in this case that light is also a common thread among three or more of the domains she has. Crystal, Fury (which contains Sun), and Shadow. Maybe Plant because bioluminescence

    There is zero indication that Aurene has taken the mantle of death, shadow, or mind - and Balthazar was no longer a god, so she couldn't take on war. Joko was no cosmic being, and had nothing to give beyond a dues ex machina. It's not yet established what Aurene did with the non-Crystal magic that Kralkatorrik absorbed, but Jormag did get a powerboost from Kralkatorrik's death. The only non-Crystal power Aurene shows having, is Plant, but this could have been from when Mordremoth died, rather than when Kralkatorrik died given that her corruption of Caithe resulted in "crystal blooms". Hard to tell.

    Prism, btw, is a type of crystal. And Kralkatorrik's "Fury" appears by all rights to have been sky and storm-related (sun, wind, lightning, clouds), which includes forms of light (sunlight, lightning).

    Prism and Light is just a synonym to Crystal and Fury, much like how Abaddon was god of secrets, while Kormir is goddess of truth. Both deal with the same domain - knowledge - but in different ways. Prisms and Light are "brighter versions" of Crystal and Fury/storms domains.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Aurene can ressurect the dead, create hive minds, summon crystals, etc.

    You say this, but literally nothing in the game shows or tells this.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    illusions from Mind.

    The Mind domain actually doesn't deal with illusions - at least, Mordremoth had never used illusions, and neither did Kralkatorrik. Instead, Mind has only been utilized for mass telepathy, shared cognizance, and body hopping. Zhaitan has been the only Elder Dragon to use illusions, so it likely relates to Shadow.

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I'm very curious how this is going to play out too.

    4 more episodes of IBS.. and now Primordus is coming in?
    I have to say, if episode 4 ends with the death of Primordus I am going to be seriously, seriously!! disappointed no matter how they do it.
    Primordus was setup all the way back in Gw1.. was teased in LW3 and has been one of the most inactive yet hyped Dragons in the game.
    4 Episodes to build him up and take him down is absolutely unacceptable and I expect people are going to be mad as kitten if that happens XD

    Your statement's a bit contradictive here. You say he's been set up since Eye of the North, yet say there will only be four episodes to build him up and take him down? :tongue:

    Personally, I won't mind, in part because I predicted this outcome. Primordus will die in either Episode 8 or, if Jormag will be killed too, in Episode 7. Though I only see the later happening if they forego the whole need to have multiple replacements for the Elder Dragons (which is what will upset me).

    To me, and likely to ANet given their past record, Primordus has had build up from Season 3's Episodes 2 and 5, and the entire Eye of the North expansion. Given how they handle returning characters like Eir, Demmi, Caudecus, Joko, Lazarus, etc. Anet seems to take distant previous plots as "build up before their end" just as much as immediate dealing releases. So, I bet in ANet's mind, Primordus (like Kralkatorrik) has been getting buildup for years.

    Of course, I'm very doubtful that Jormag will meet their end this season. Primordus dying... I can see it. Unless we manage to put it to sleep again instead.

    But my question is the same question from the beginning of this season: how are we to deal with an Elder Dragon, without a scion to replace them?

    And to the notion of "four episodes isn't enough" - remember, Kralkatorrik got three! Season 4 Episodes 1-3 were all about Joko, and PoF was about Balthazar. Kralkatorrik's minions played cameo (to a degree), but Kralkatorrik wasn't the focus until Season 4 Episode 4. Just as Primordus' minions got cameo (via Forged Steel) and doesn't become a focus until Episode 5 of 8.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    End of Dragons is plural. So unless the sea dragon is a hydra and counts as two. There is going to more than one dragon left after this arc is over.

    The title is very clearly referring to the cycle of six Elder Dragons ending, and not meant to be the end of two+ specific dragons.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.