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  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I'm rank 2,118 and higher than 99% of all registered accounts there. rank 8k is what, 95% higher than all accounts?

    96

    If you bothered to check the unlocked legendary skins, you'd see that among the 0 - 1000 or 2000 hour accounts the mean is 1 legendary and the median is 0 legendary skins unlocked.

    I have "You have 0 of 18 (0.0%) skins matching the filter." I not calculate spvp and wvw skins??? LOL I don't think that this is some value that we have look and make attention. Or you mean armory will works only wiht raid set ? This is also not motivate me craft them ..

    Nope, the Spvp and WvW skins do not count. Which does not matter in this context, given how long it takes to craft those armor sets compared to the raid set. Even more unlikely that newer players will have them.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Friday.7864 said:
    It was so nice when they used to cost 1.15-1.20g
    Then trading guilds started using it as currency and the price shot up...
    I personally blame Anet for having items worth more than their TP can handle and for not introducing some garbage tradeable trash item with a fixed price to replace mystic coins which the rest of us needs to craft stuff...

    The reason people use stuff like mystic coins to trade is not because of the TP. It is because of the limit on withdrawing gold from mail.

  • @Danikat.8537 said:
    But also lets flip the question on it's head: Why would 1 person devote all the gold it's possible to have on 3 accounts to placing buy orders on Mystic Coins at the current market rate? What does that gain them apart from a lot of Mystic Coins?

    Maybe someone got some inside information that the mystic coins will have uses in the next LS chapter or Xpac.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ok I Did It.2854 said:
    From what was being said on twitch last night, this player could have easily pushed the price up to 2.5g and held it there for months, technically they didnt do anything wrong, aslong as the gold on their account was legit and earned ingame, they are free to do what they want with it, but it should highlight finally that just a handful of players can completely dominate this game market as and when they choose too, and nothing will change that.

    If indeed this player is doing this to spite a few other barons, then id watch for when that 280k coins its dumped back into the market, as the player in question could also make MC's worthless.

    Yeah, if this is a spite thing then that's the ultimate goal dumping a few hundred thousand MC on the market at once could crash it.

    However, it doesn't make that much sense.

    For a start, they're driving up the price of Mystic Coins right now so the other trader barons benefit in the short term as their already large stocks of Mystic Coins are all worth more.

    In the mid to long term those barons can easily put up massive buy orders of their own to snap them all up when the dump occurs. Then the price will go back up again.

    It's win win for them.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2020

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    I'm rank 2,118 and higher than 99% of all registered accounts there. rank 8k is what, 95% higher than all accounts? You are literally proving his point.

    If you bothered to check the unlocked legendary skins, you'd see that among the 0 - 1000 or 2000 hour accounts the mean is 1 legendary and the median is 0 legendary skins unlocked.

    The vast majority of players does NOT own multiple legendary items, not even 1. Unless you want to make the argument that the vast majority of players are all 5k hour+ accounts.

    This is true. It is possible to check the amount of people who have pieces of legendary equipment rather than legendary skins. Looking at: https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.legendaryItemsArmor

    Of all the players registered on the site:
    12.5% of players registered there have 1 piece of legendary armour.
    8.5% have 6 pieces.
    3% have 12 pieces.
    1.5% have 18 pieces.

    Gw2efficiency has 279,815 registered accounts out of the millions of GW2 accounts created. Although some of those are inactive accounts I think it'd be fair to say that, in general, the players who have gone to the effort of creating an account on gw2efficiency will more likely to be more active in the game and have legendary armour pieces, so I'd say the actual percentage of accounts in the game that have 18 pieces would be below 1%.

    Of the players with 1000-2000 hours of game time:
    3.5% of players registered there have 1 piece of legendary armour.
    1% have 6 pieces.
    There are no figures for players with 1000-2000 hours of game time that have more than 6 pieces. Probably because that number is too small, less than 0.5%.

    There are no figures for players with less than 1000 hours of game time that have any pieces of legendary armour. Again probably because that number is too small and it's too time consuming to craft.

    @lare.5129 said:
    who knows? And again - if not craft T2 weapons - per dayli login player earn more, than can spend for trinkets ..
    I don't know no one player who play gw2 not have already 3 leg sets and some trinkets ..

    Maybe, you don't but it's pretty obvious that the players you do know are not representative of the the vast majority of players in this game.

  • With the kind of resourses involved here, it sure does smell like the typical Chinese sweatshop gold farmer outfit I remember oh-so-well, back from my WoW daze 10 years ago. However, it certainly could be some API widget coder kid, who only interfaces to the BLTC, and can massively query and statistically analyze, and thus buy/sell max market style (much like front running/naked shorting/high frequency). What a fun way to play GW2 - you never even have to login - just check your GUI API widget interface for automated results!!!

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Did you notice anyone putting tons of buy orders at the same/smilar time? If not ... then these might have accumulated normally. The lowest sell order is only a little bit higher than the highest buy order.

    And with lots of guys ordering at a higher price the next buyer wouldn't want to offer less (he might have to wait for ages) ... but offering a bit more might just not be worth it. Maybe they are just matching that order (adding more to the 300k already there) or buying directly for a few silvers more.

    Actually now the sellers should try to increase the gap between highest buy order and lowest sell order. (There does not seem to be much market on sell orders.) Someone could buy everything then place sell orders at 3 gold or so starting. Next people might sell directly or place it a bit lower from 2-3g.

    And the buy order guys will have to increase their order prices.

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Luthan.5236 said:
    Did you notice anyone putting tons of buy orders at the same/smilar time?

    just look at https://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19976 yourself.

    Before November 7th the buy order volume was constantly around 150k - 180k buy orders.
    At November 7th and November 8th the buy order volume more than doubled (more than tripled compared to the 150K) to nearly 500k and stayed around 500k until now.

    I would call that "tons of buy orders" at (nearly) the same/similar time.

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    Register and check your guild leaderboard to see who is the best in your guild and who finished achievements first.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Might be a network of bots then. I doubt a single (or a few) players would do that. There is probably a lot more interesting stuff to do in the game and if they already had that much money they wouldn't try to manipulate anything.

    But maybe bots/farmers that want to make legendaries and later selling them at the TP are trying to order huge amounts of coins now? It surely should be investigated by ArenaNet ... considering that that many happened in such a short time and that a lot of money is needed to place those orders.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Luthan.5236 said:
    Might be a network of bots then. I doubt a single (or a few) players would do that. There is probably a lot more interesting stuff to do in the game and if they already had that much money they wouldn't try to manipulate anything.

    But maybe bots/farmers that want to make legendaries and later selling them at the TP are trying to order huge amounts of coins now? It surely should be investigated by ArenaNet ... considering that that many happened in such a short time and that a lot of money is needed to place those orders.

    A player admitted to doing it already.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There needs to be a listing fee for placing buy orders. The TP is structured to drive prices down and there are penalties for sellers that list things higher than market price will afford but there is not one for buyers that place orders lower than market value. This has been brought up before and is not a well received topic but I think it would help in these kinds of things and it might help in the market botting. The fee burden should be placed at the lister versus just at the seller. TP barons can do what they do because they can always just place buys and adjust them up without penalty if too low. The goal of the TP should be to define the true value of an item, but today it just acts like a devalue. I get the prior argument of the seller has more value at stake since they have something to sell, but that's a false statement in these cases where the buyer can freely undervalue items without penalty because they have more coin in play. Have seen other games TPs/AH work successfully in this style with it creating massively over priced items that people here have feared.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/Civ6/CU/AoC/NW

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    There needs to be a listing fee for placing buy orders. The TP is structured to drive prices down and there are penalties for sellers that list things higher than market price will afford but there is not one for buyers that place orders lower than market value. This has been brought up before and is not a well received topic but I think it would help in these kinds of things and it might help in the market botting. The fee burden should be placed at the lister versus just at the seller. TP barons can do what they do because they can always just place buys and adjust them up without penalty if too low. The goal of the TP should be to define the true value of an item, but today it just acts like a devalue. I get the prior argument of the seller has more value at stake since they have something to sell, but that's a false statement in these cases where the buyer can freely undervalue items without penalty because they have more coin in play. Have seen other games TPs/AH work successfully in this style with it creating massively over priced items that people here have feared.

    No, That is a terrible idea now I got to pay to order stuff. Honestly the only fee should be a relisting fee that goes up every time you relist to prevent that constant undercut. You list once for free but if you get undercut then try to undercut it's 5 percent then more and more each time you try and relist that item until you decide it's now better to fill the buy order or leave it on TP. That would also eliminate the need to dodge the TP tax with trades but wouldn't fix anything worth more then TP max.
    You can't fix TP barons especially in a game you can buy gems w RL money and convert to in game gold and once you have enough you can start manipulation of prices especially of rare drop items. Adding a fee for a buy order does nothing to help anyone.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh I see. Didn't notice this at first but now after reading page 1 of the thread I saw someone mentioned it that a player admitted that he placed the orders. (And also sold chak infusions cheap.) I wonder what they get from this? Just bragging that they have tons of money? (And they really most have not other hobbies besides GW2 if they earned that much money just from playing without doing anything against the rules.)

    The thing with legendaries ... really is risky - to speculate on some higher price. The thing is: If prices increase ... then others might as well just keep the coins - instead of selling them. (Cause it might be more trouble buying them again later if you might need some for yourself.)

    • I guess there are already players using more than 1 paid account to farm coins. If the prices go up ... there will just be more incentive to do an additional anomaly (I ignore them atm - too much other stuff to play) or to buy a 2nd account just for daily logging in.

    It will balance eventually. In the end there will still be enough people that ignore legendaries even with some legendary armory system.


    As for the fee: I think there are 2 fees? (But I don't remember them without checkin the wiki.) 1 when the transaction get's done. And one for just listing. Yeah ... the one placing the order should pay both. (While the one for listing always is paid. And the other one gets refunded if you remove the listing.)

    Becasuse the one placing the listing is actually using the most of the service the TP provides. (In extreme cases the listing is active there pretty long.)

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Luthan.5236 said:
    Oh I see. Didn't notice this at first but now after reading page 1 of the thread I saw someone mentioned it that a player admitted that he placed the orders. (And also sold chak infusions cheap.) I wonder what they get from this? Just bragging that they have tons of money? (And they really most have not other hobbies besides GW2 if they earned that much money just from playing without doing anything against the rules.)

    The thing with legendaries ... really is risky - to speculate on some higher price. The thing is: If prices increase ... then others might as well just keep the coins - instead of selling them. (Cause it might be more trouble buying them again later if you might need some for yourself.)

    • I guess there are already players using more than 1 paid account to farm coins. If the prices go up ... there will just be more incentive to do an additional anomaly (I ignore them atm - too much other stuff to play) or to buy a 2nd account just for daily logging in.

    It will balance eventually. In the end there will still be enough people that ignore legendaries even with some legendary armory system.


    As for the fee: I think there are 2 fees? (But I don't remember them without checkin the wiki.) 1 when the transaction get's done. And one for just listing. Yeah ... the one placing the order should pay both. (While the one for listing always is paid. And the other one gets refunded if you remove the listing.)

    Becasuse the one placing the listing is actually using the most of the service the TP provides. (In extreme cases the listing is active there pretty long.)

    It was someone throwing a tantrum because they got banned from some external trading sites.

  • as long as the game continues to have super rare items like infusion that are worth more gold than the trading post will allow and a gold cap on mailing gold, players will have to use another form of currency(mystic coins) to trade stacks of them to other players for these rare items to bypass these capped limits. Otherwise anet would need to increase the drop rates to bring them inline with TP gold cap create less of a need to hoard stacks of mystic coins as currency. I wouldn't think anet intended on having stacks of mystic coins or some other items have specific uses in game to be used as another currency to circumvent gold trading. I doubt anything going to change. anet has there hands full already with current production of the game.

  • @Luthan.5236 said:
    Might be a network of bots then. I doubt a single (or a few) players would do that. There is probably a lot more interesting stuff to do in the game and if they already had that much money they wouldn't try to manipulate anything.

    I was completely with you here - why play the game, if all you do is 'game' the BLTC and don't even have to login... but that part about, "if they already had that much money" didn't float - not at all.

    But maybe bots/farmers that want to make legendaries and later selling them at the TP are trying to order huge amounts of coins now? It surely should be investigated by ArenaNet ... considering that that many happened in such a short time and that a lot of money is needed to place those orders.

    Nah - they just set up MM (necro minion) farming bots with bells (have to reply to text messages) - why bother going through the RIGORAMAUL of crafting a leg. Gimme a break.

  • @Trinnitty.8256 said:
    as long as the game continues to have super rare items like infusion that are worth more gold than the trading post will allow and a gold cap on mailing gold

    I just don't get this - I played GW1, and there was a legit trade window. kitten happened?!?

  • if you want to make money with buying coins at 1g 80s then you need to resell at at least 2g 12s which is currently far from the sell listings prize. and usually you want a bigger margin than those 23 coppers per coin (which is still 960 gold btw for 300k coins)

    additional those 300k coins won't be fully bought, they rather block the market from reaching lower offers and the small portion actually bought has to pay off for the whole investment of 540k gold.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @AnonBackStabber.8536 said:

    @Trinnitty.8256 said:
    as long as the game continues to have super rare items like infusion that are worth more gold than the trading post will allow and a gold cap on mailing gold

    I just don't get this - I played GW1, and there was a legit trade window. kitten happened?!?

    There were way too many scams associated with it. Apparently their support had a lot of problem with those, so they decided to switch in gw2 to a system that is scam-free. And the additional boon for them is that they can tax the transactions now, which works as a major gold sink and one of the core stabilizing elements for the market.

    Scams? Both sides have to submit an offer and you have the opportunity to double-check the offer of the other party before hitting "accept". Outside of people not bothering to check what they were receiving I don't know how you'd be able to scam someone through that trade system. A thing is too much platinum for a trade? Go with ectos. The item worth more than 7 stacks of ectos? Use armbraces.

    Disagreement =/= "negativity"
    Criticism =/= "hate"

  • LSD.4673LSD.4673 Member ✭✭

    @Friday.7864 said:
    It was so nice when they used to cost 1.15-1.20g
    Then trading guilds started using it as currency and the price shot up...
    I personally blame Anet for having items worth more than their TP can handle and for not introducing some garbage tradeable trash item with a fixed price to replace mystic coins which the rest of us needs to craft stuff...

    The real issue is how poorly balanced crafting is as a whole. You need only check your materials storage to see an enormous discrepancy between the maxed out stashes and the nigh-empty ones.

    ANet take years to sort out straightforward, simple issues (Faction Provisioners, for example); it's safe to say there's no chance of a rebalancing coming out in our lifetimes.

  • Friday.7864Friday.7864 Member ✭✭✭

    @LSD.4673 said:

    @Friday.7864 said:
    It was so nice when they used to cost 1.15-1.20g
    Then trading guilds started using it as currency and the price shot up...
    I personally blame Anet for having items worth more than their TP can handle and for not introducing some garbage tradeable trash item with a fixed price to replace mystic coins which the rest of us needs to craft stuff...

    The real issue is how poorly balanced crafting is as a whole. You need only check your materials storage to see an enormous discrepancy between the maxed out stashes and the nigh-empty ones.

    ANet take years to sort out straightforward, simple issues (Faction Provisioners, for example); it's safe to say there's no chance of a rebalancing coming out in our lifetimes.

    Well, without constant demand crafting is destined to fail. Daily trades will give at least a bit of value to useless materials.
    The MC complaints they could also address overnight with a tradeable NPC trash item with a fixed buy/sell price.
    I don't dare expect more of them, they're so fixated on those boring LW releases instead of taking their time to fix a thing or two properly.