Why Warrrior wouldnt need a damage buff ..... — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why Warrrior wouldnt need a damage buff .....

Pati.2438Pati.2438 Member ✭✭

Okay this is Threat is only just for those who think: "yea warrior need damage buff cause i dont do damage".

first of all you play Zerker amulet on spellbraker strength. It is just simply full dps like. You could ezily do about 10k critical hits with arc divider and about 3-4k with some dagger skills, that is just actually more than enough. The only reason why you just deal like no damage are the random blinds spam from some classes who get blind for no reason. First example the EE trait from engi do daze (what is first of all okay) but it also blinds ya .... and i dont get for what is this blind for its simply there. Other example would be the rev staff block .... it just block so for what is that stupid blind here ....... There are a lot more of those blinds for no real reason... Pls do something about that Anet so Warrior would get back to shine ... a Damage buff will simply do nothing!

Comments

  • CutesySylveon.8290CutesySylveon.8290 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2020

    You're forgetting the fact that the CC damage nerf hit warrior MUCH harder than other classes and its means of dealing damage were pretty much always tied to slower, highly telegraphed CC skill setups. Let's say you could hit 10k on Arc Divider, which is a Berserker only skill and can't even hit those numbers anymore, your still having to put in a lot more effort to achieve that vs nearly any other DPS build. This isnt even considered the fact that taking Berserker means your sustain is made of paper.

  • @CutesySylveon.8290 You are right but as i said a damage buff would just do nothing about the fact that 50% of your skills (big dps or not) are effected by just random blinds that are ingame for just (for me at least) no real reason. Except that blinds are the hardest counter for Warrior things like this shouldnt be a thing.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2020

    they could give warrior global -50% blind duration TBH, in general blinds should be short lasting IMO. 1-2s blind from skills is plenty enough

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    maybe they could remove cc from some skills and add the damage back.

    edit
    instead of removing cc add additional effects. ofc if you remove cc on some skills you gotta lower cc cd on other skills, also can lower duration and cd.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Strages.2950Strages.2950 Member ✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:
    You're forgetting the fact that the CC damage nerf hit warrior MUCH harder than other classes and its means of dealing damage were pretty much always tied to slower, highly telegraphed CC skill setups. Let's say you could hit 10k on Arc Divider, which is a Berserker only skill and can't even hit those numbers anymore, your still having to put in a lot more effort to achieve that vs nearly any other DPS build. This isnt even considered the fact that taking Berserker means your sustain is made of paper.

    This. The whole Warrior gameplay style relies on CC's to land any significant damage against a fairly skilled player. Besides Greatsword, all the other weapons used in viable pvp builds have CC's tied to what used to be their big damage. Personally, I think (at least) all burst skills should've kept their non-nerf damage even if they are CC's. The setup cost of these skills, combined with their massive telegraphs and, in all honestly, sub par implementation (hammer burst skill still wont land on any sort of stairs or non-level ground 8 years later) is more than enough reason to have them keep their damage when they do land.

    Also, we're still waiting for the rework on defy pain /last stand. Its been long enough; devs shouldn't just kill traits and make no effort at all to rework them. They've literally nullified a whole traitline with those nerfs.

  • I'll say again. Any CC skill that puts you into melee range or is straight up just melee, should have kept its damage.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    they could give warrior global -50% blind duration TBH, in general blinds should be short lasting IMO. 1-2s blind from skills is plenty enough

    They could also make blinds not stack so you're not running around with 10+ second blinds if you can’t get it off immediately after a thief hits you with Shadowshot over and over, and that blind is 5 seconds and is unblockable.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    maybe they could remove cc from some skills and add the damage back

    Warrior just needs damage back on its CCs, some of it at least.

    My Twitch.tv channel
    My YouTube channel

    ~ I left GW2 on 11/22/2020 due to widespread cheating and the lack of action to moderate it

  • I agree with the above sentiments. Removing CC damage from Warrior was a massive blunder and a sign of a complete misunderstanding of how that class funtions. CC that deals damage was 90% of the strength of the reactive gameplay of Spellbreaker, and now the only viable build for the espec in pvp (and in WvW too) is shout healer. That just feels wrong from a design perspective.

    I won't beg Anet to go back on their CC philosophy, but they really should. CC damage was decidedly not the problem. If CC is an issue, people should take stun breakers and stability.

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭

    I would settle for adding back the damage to Burst skills that CC.
    -Hammer has 2 damage skills, one dependant on having CC on the target, the other is not damage but soft CC. May be 1/2 real damaging skills.
    -Mace Has 1 damage skill and requires a block.

    Also Hundred Blades needs to not root you in place, this is a ridiculously outdated mechanic for a skill that can be easily interrupted.

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • LuRkEr.9462LuRkEr.9462 Member ✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    Warriors are in a fairly good place in pvp compared to many other classes. There are just a few completely broken classes that make Warrior feel bad, but its generally in a good place.
    Not saying it doesn't need any tweeks, but its not needing anything extreme.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    If you compare Warrior to Ele, Mesmer, and even to Ranger, Guard, Thief, Necro........ it's fine.

    It's just Rev & Holo that make it completely redundant, outside of the Healbreaker role.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    they could give warrior global -50% blind duration TBH, in general blinds should be short lasting IMO. 1-2s blind from skills is plenty enough

    They could also make blinds not stack so you're not running around with 10+ second blinds if you can’t get it off immediately after a thief hits you with Shadowshot over and over, and that blind is 5 seconds and is unblockable.

    yep, exactly my thoughts. they could go around shredding blind duration on most skills.
    mesmers prestige applies 5s blind for no reason, same with signet of midnight. could both be easy peasy be nerfed to 3s, and it would be net positive change to the game
    proj finisher blind should go down to 2 from 3, and whirl from 3 to probably 1. it would over all be good change.

  • @LuRkEr.9462 said:
    Warriors are in a fairly good place in pvp compared to many other classes. There are just a few completely broken classes that make Warrior feel bad, but its generally in a good place.
    Not saying it doesn't need any tweeks, but its not needing anything extreme.

    Shoutbreaker being good doesn't make warrior good as a whole. It says a lot when your one viable build is a support spec with no viable damage builds.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LuRkEr.9462 said:
    Warriors are in a fairly good place in pvp compared to many other classes. There are just a few completely broken classes that make Warrior feel bad, but its generally in a good place.
    Not saying it doesn't need any tweeks, but its not needing anything extreme.

    I cannot believe I just read this.... what?

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Adamixos.6785 said:
    I agree with the above sentiments. Removing CC damage from Warrior was a massive blunder and a sign of a complete misunderstanding of how that class funtions. CC that deals damage was 90% of the strength of the reactive gameplay of Spellbreaker, and now the only viable build for the espec in pvp (and in WvW too) is shout healer. That just feels wrong from a design perspective.

    I won't beg Anet to go back on their CC philosophy, but they really should. CC damage was decidedly not the problem. If CC is an issue, people should take stun breakers and stability.

    but they also nerfed stun breaks and stability

    // Yanim

  • Kachros.4751Kachros.4751 Member ✭✭✭

    @LuRkEr.9462 said:
    Warriors are in a fairly good place in pvp compared to many other classes. There are just a few completely broken classes that make Warrior feel bad, but its generally in a good place.
    Not saying it doesn't need any tweeks, but its not needing anything extreme.

    You arent entirely wrong but not fully correct either, after the CC damage nerf warrior became a lot less active, granted CC on its own is pretty rewarding since anet also removed a lot of stability and therefore allows a lot of bursts (considering warrior has a good amount of CC) but it lacks a little something to be A tier and even so it gets gatekeeped by numerous other classes (such as thief, renegade and holo, among a few others) should said classes be nerfed and warrior buffed a little it would definitely see a lot more play.

  • Multicolorhipster.9751Multicolorhipster.9751 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    Most, if not all core specs and a handful of elite specs need a damage buff. Nerfing everything doesn't work. It's just slowed the game down to a snail's pace and killed build diversity. Aside from a few elite spec tradeoffs, the entirety of the big nerf patch and all subsequent nerfs to this point were kinda pointless.

    To get back to the OP: Healbreaker good for me warrior with tiny brain, but tiny brain no like Healbreaker because me tiny brain been smash for all of time be playing Guild Wars 2. Healbreaker be good side option when bored but mostly want smash tinies hurr hurr hurr. But smash warrior not good side pick. Very squish like tinies and less damage than light beam people doing same job. So no smash, only Healbreaker and spam CC. Peaceful, pacifist, immortal, but me no care about live forever or being tiny beta healer. Me alpha and me want smash. See problem?

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    lol warrior doesnt need "number" damage buff, warrior need mechanic buff
    in fact, warrior does higher number damage then most classes, just no reliable way to land them
    if there's a way to reliably land damage, warrior would be top DPS chart in pvp.

    what they need to do is shave damage and give better mechanics, which anet refuses to do since 2012
    all they do is buff number and hope it works
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Axe
    have you seen how long the buff list is for this single uselss pvp skill? lol
    u hardly see any already hard hitting skill gets 50% damage increase in a single patch lol

    anet simply refuses to do anything else

    also anet seen to refuse to make any functional ranged trait/utility for warrior.
    i don't even know how rev and war is barely different HP and armor wise, yet rev is so much more revatile

    warrior has been unplayable in pvp
    for 6 months till now

    good job balance team

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    warrior sucks.. its just healer right now.. Tactic > everything ! its tactic or nothing.. spell breaker without tactic is just cc .. yes it can do little damage but its glass cannon without sustain when you dont take tactic in pvp.. "might makes right" is now all wrong.. might application is destroyed in pvp.. and if that wasnt enough of a nerf by its self the healing went down to like 55 .. when classes like thief does 20k crit with stupid high crit rate.. tell me how 50 health you get from might is gonna help you?
    glass cannon berzeker warrior does half the damage of marauder reaper auto atack . warrior need reduce in cc and increase of damage and sustain with strength when you dont take tactic

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    @felix.2386 said:
    lol warrior doesnt need "number" damage buff, warrior need mechanic buff
    in fact, warrior does higher number damage then most classes, just no reliable way to land them
    if there's a way to reliably land damage, warrior would be top DPS chart in pvp.

    what they need to do is shave damage and give better mechanics, which anet refuses to do since 2012
    all they do is buff number and hope it works
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Axe
    have you seen how long the buff list is for this single uselss pvp skill? lol
    u hardly see any already hard hitting skill gets 50% damage increase in a single patch lol

    anet simply refuses to do anything else

    also anet seen to refuse to make any functional ranged trait/utility for warrior.
    i don't even know how rev and war is barely different HP and armor wise, yet rev is so much more revatile

    Warriors damage isn't reliable to land because it's been designed as a class that cc's its target and follows up with its burst, problem lies in the fact that warriors burst skills modifiers were initially balanced around all those proceeding cc skills doing damage as well, drop the burst skills modifiers the same degree as classes that aren't designed similar creates a big imbalance when u also remove the damage from cc, basically outright removing half of warrior burst potential not just lowering it as it did on most other classes with reliable methods other than cc to land their bursts. Most classes hard cc wasn't such a huge part of a classes overall burst numbers whereas with warrior it was. As soon as they released the no damage on cc idea warrior players knew this was gonna delete half their burst compared to other classes, anet devs didn't know their own game enough to see that I guess, lol the treasured cmc plays they class. Anyway anet know best right, that's why their games booming.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @noiwk.2760 said:
    warrior sucks.. its just healer right now.. Tactic > everything ! its tactic or nothing.. spell breaker without tactic is just cc .. yes it can do little damage but its glass cannon without sustain when you dont take tactic in pvp.. "might makes right" is now all wrong.. might application is destroyed in pvp.. and if that wasnt enough of a nerf by its self the healing went down to like 55 .. when classes like thief does 20k crit with stupid high crit rate.. tell me how 50 health you get from might is gonna help you?
    glass cannon berzeker warrior does half the damage of marauder reaper auto atack . warrior need reduce in cc and increase of damage and sustain with strength when you dont take tactic

    Again similar issue here, warrior sustain when specifically talking about sustain thru mmr and heal signet the warrior gained its sustain through might gain from multiple sources not just one source with the additional heal from heal signet. When all sources of might are gutted not just one etc u don't just tone down healing thru might u gut it as well. Add to this the nerf on heal signet lowering warrior sustain further and it's not rocket science to see why the method of using mmr and heal signet are now useless and why most warriors went to mending which is a really good heal ski on a low cd but still doesn't change the facts above. The fact the devs missed these easily seen issues and actually think their fine as is among other issues they've created for other classes leads me to have little faith in their ability to balance or rework anything remotely effectively when it comes to balance.

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:
    warrior sucks.. its just healer right now.. Tactic > everything ! its tactic or nothing.. spell breaker without tactic is just cc .. yes it can do little damage but its glass cannon without sustain when you dont take tactic in pvp.. "might makes right" is now all wrong.. might application is destroyed in pvp.. and if that wasnt enough of a nerf by its self the healing went down to like 55 .. when classes like thief does 20k crit with stupid high crit rate.. tell me how 50 health you get from might is gonna help you?
    glass cannon berzeker warrior does half the damage of marauder reaper auto atack . warrior need reduce in cc and increase of damage and sustain with strength when you dont take tactic

    Again similar issue here, warrior sustain when specifically talking about sustain thru mmr and heal signet the warrior gained its sustain through might gain from multiple sources not just one source with the additional heal from heal signet. When all sources of might are gutted not just one etc u don't just tone down healing thru might u gut it as well. Add to this the nerf on heal signet lowering warrior sustain further and it's not rocket science to see why the method of using mmr and heal signet are now useless and why most warriors went to mending which is a really good heal ski on a low cd but still doesn't change the facts above. The fact the devs missed these easily seen issues and actually think their fine as is among other issues they've created for other classes leads me to have little faith in their ability to balance or rework anything remotely effectively when it comes to balance.

    100% ! the only way to sustain a warrior now in pvp is tactic..
    the 33% patch was awful.. because it was too general.. clearly they did not look at every class as its own.. but rather very general changes " 0 damage on cc"
    well while in general it does make sense.. all of the warrior utility and hard hitting skills are CC . !
    and few weapons are also only cc !

    another general nerf is healing.. "ok we nerfed all regen skills so we will nerf might makes right" without stopping for a second to think " ohh guys wait.. we already nerfed might makes right because we nerfed might application"
    they promised alot of small updates following this patch and they didnt live to their promise..
    by all mean warrior is amazing now.. but as a support only.. because i see no case in which not taking tactic is a good thing..
    i think warrior is possibly best support in pvp right now.. but other than that.. warrior is just bad.. berzeker can still do good damage but i still find issue with the sustain..
    ive seen 1 very strong duelist spell breaker on wvw.. but he was basically burst and run burst and run he played very well tho..
    i think we are in need for a massive balance right now.. i think CC need to be tunned down becaue they removed basically all of the stability in game and the cc is left untouched or even buffed.. condi necro can lock someone in fear forever.. and support spell breaker can cc chain easily
    warrior need rework to replace some cc for damage.. for example.. remove the cc on bull charge and some other utility but bring back its high burst damage..

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:
    warrior sucks.. its just healer right now.. Tactic > everything ! its tactic or nothing.. spell breaker without tactic is just cc .. yes it can do little damage but its glass cannon without sustain when you dont take tactic in pvp.. "might makes right" is now all wrong.. might application is destroyed in pvp.. and if that wasnt enough of a nerf by its self the healing went down to like 55 .. when classes like thief does 20k crit with stupid high crit rate.. tell me how 50 health you get from might is gonna help you?
    glass cannon berzeker warrior does half the damage of marauder reaper auto atack . warrior need reduce in cc and increase of damage and sustain with strength when you dont take tactic

    Again similar issue here, warrior sustain when specifically talking about sustain thru mmr and heal signet the warrior gained its sustain through might gain from multiple sources not just one source with the additional heal from heal signet. When all sources of might are gutted not just one etc u don't just tone down healing thru might u gut it as well. Add to this the nerf on heal signet lowering warrior sustain further and it's not rocket science to see why the method of using mmr and heal signet are now useless and why most warriors went to mending which is a really good heal ski on a low cd but still doesn't change the facts above. The fact the devs missed these easily seen issues and actually think their fine as is among other issues they've created for other classes leads me to have little faith in their ability to balance or rework anything remotely effectively when it comes to balance.

    100% ! the only way to sustain a warrior now in pvp is tactic..
    the 33% patch was awful.. because it was too general.. clearly they did not look at every class as its own.. but rather very general changes " 0 damage on cc"
    well while in general it does make sense.. all of the warrior utility and hard hitting skills are CC . !
    and few weapons are also only cc !

    another general nerf is healing.. "ok we nerfed all regen skills so we will nerf might makes right" without stopping for a second to think " ohh guys wait.. we already nerfed might makes right because we nerfed might application"
    they promised alot of small updates following this patch and they didnt live to their promise..
    by all mean warrior is amazing now.. but as a support only.. because i see no case in which not taking tactic is a good thing..
    i think warrior is possibly best support in pvp right now.. but other than that.. warrior is just bad.. berzeker can still do good damage but i still find issue with the sustain..
    ive seen 1 very strong duelist spell breaker on wvw.. but he was basically burst and run burst and run he played very well tho..
    i think we are in need for a massive balance right now.. i think CC need to be tunned down becaue they removed basically all of the stability in game and the cc is left untouched or even buffed.. condi necro can lock someone in fear forever.. and support spell breaker can cc chain easily
    warrior need rework to replace some cc for damage.. for example.. remove the cc on bull charge and some other utility but bring back its high burst damage..

    They knew the blanket nerf patch was going to cause a lot of imbalances and even stated so but went through with it with the implication that frequent follow up passes would be made to address issues caused by such a general patch but failed to meet those implications as a lot of us long time players expected so. For one it often seems the devs are disconnected with how classes actually function not only within itself but also with the rest of the roster but also they seem to prioritize reworks and balance changes very low on their priorities regarding the developmental support side of the game. Lately it feels as if again anets resourses lie elsewhere and not on this particular project or the team has been structurally downsized to the point they no longer have the resources to properly provide ongoing support of the content already created while also having the resources to work on future content.
    Either way u can definitely tell the devs are struggling lately to provide what's needed for a project the size of gw2.

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:
    warrior sucks.. its just healer right now.. Tactic > everything ! its tactic or nothing.. spell breaker without tactic is just cc .. yes it can do little damage but its glass cannon without sustain when you dont take tactic in pvp.. "might makes right" is now all wrong.. might application is destroyed in pvp.. and if that wasnt enough of a nerf by its self the healing went down to like 55 .. when classes like thief does 20k crit with stupid high crit rate.. tell me how 50 health you get from might is gonna help you?
    glass cannon berzeker warrior does half the damage of marauder reaper auto atack . warrior need reduce in cc and increase of damage and sustain with strength when you dont take tactic

    Again similar issue here, warrior sustain when specifically talking about sustain thru mmr and heal signet the warrior gained its sustain through might gain from multiple sources not just one source with the additional heal from heal signet. When all sources of might are gutted not just one etc u don't just tone down healing thru might u gut it as well. Add to this the nerf on heal signet lowering warrior sustain further and it's not rocket science to see why the method of using mmr and heal signet are now useless and why most warriors went to mending which is a really good heal ski on a low cd but still doesn't change the facts above. The fact the devs missed these easily seen issues and actually think their fine as is among other issues they've created for other classes leads me to have little faith in their ability to balance or rework anything remotely effectively when it comes to balance.

    100% ! the only way to sustain a warrior now in pvp is tactic..
    the 33% patch was awful.. because it was too general.. clearly they did not look at every class as its own.. but rather very general changes " 0 damage on cc"
    well while in general it does make sense.. all of the warrior utility and hard hitting skills are CC . !
    and few weapons are also only cc !

    another general nerf is healing.. "ok we nerfed all regen skills so we will nerf might makes right" without stopping for a second to think " ohh guys wait.. we already nerfed might makes right because we nerfed might application"
    they promised alot of small updates following this patch and they didnt live to their promise..
    by all mean warrior is amazing now.. but as a support only.. because i see no case in which not taking tactic is a good thing..
    i think warrior is possibly best support in pvp right now.. but other than that.. warrior is just bad.. berzeker can still do good damage but i still find issue with the sustain..
    ive seen 1 very strong duelist spell breaker on wvw.. but he was basically burst and run burst and run he played very well tho..
    i think we are in need for a massive balance right now.. i think CC need to be tunned down becaue they removed basically all of the stability in game and the cc is left untouched or even buffed.. condi necro can lock someone in fear forever.. and support spell breaker can cc chain easily
    warrior need rework to replace some cc for damage.. for example.. remove the cc on bull charge and some other utility but bring back its high burst damage..

    They knew the blanket nerf patch was going to cause a lot of imbalances and even stated so but went through with it with the implication that frequent follow up passes would be made to address issues caused by such a general patch but failed to meet those implications as a lot of us long time players expected so. For one it often seems the devs are disconnected with how classes actually function not only within itself but also with the rest of the roster but also they seem to prioritize reworks and balance changes very low on their priorities regarding the developmental support side of the game. Lately it feels as if again anets resourses lie elsewhere and not on this particular project or the team has been structurally downsized to the point they no longer have the resources to properly provide ongoing support of the content already created while also having the resources to work on future content.
    Either way u can definitely tell the devs are struggling lately to provide what's needed for a project the size of gw2.

    if im fair.. i dont think they care about pvp simple as that.. if they did.. they would;ve done something about hackers/bots/afk in ranked pvp..
    sadly ranked pvp is soooo full of bots that farm the gold reward.. and i cant help but wonder .. if they cant handle bots why not just rework the reward of ranked pvp to be less attractive for hackers/bots? to me.. this would be more critical than balance.. but with balance they fail too.. we agreed on warrior.. and then another concern is DD and their shadow art. and.. theres core necro condi with endless fear.. and holo that is entirely broken.. pvp is all the same classes now days.. and so is wvw.. where you would see mostly thieves as roamers

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    maybe they could remove cc from some skills and add the damage back.

    edit
    instead of removing cc add additional effects. ofc if you remove cc on some skills you gotta lower cc cd on other skills, also can lower duration and cd.

    I would increase full counter cd and give its damage back so it can again hit for 6k but at the cost of not being a spammable skill, also this would nerf healbreaker .

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    Aalmos> @Vancho.8750 said:

    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    There is lot of classes binded to a traitline , thief to trickery , rangers to survivality, mesmers used to be to duels ,etc

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:
    Most, if not all core specs and a handful of elite specs need a damage buff. Nerfing everything doesn't work. It's just slowed the game down to a snail's pace and killed build diversity. Aside from a few elite spec tradeoffs, the entirety of the big nerf patch and all subsequent nerfs to this point were kinda pointless.

    To get back to the OP: Healbreaker good for me warrior with tiny brain, but tiny brain no like Healbreaker because me tiny brain been smash for all of time be playing Guild Wars 2. Healbreaker be good side option when bored but mostly want smash tinies hurr hurr hurr. But smash warrior not good side pick. Very squish like tinies and less damage than light beam people doing same job. So no smash, only Healbreaker and spam CC. Peaceful, pacifist, immortal, but me no care about live forever or being tiny beta healer. Me alpha and me want smash. See problem?

    10/10😭

  • @ZDragon.3046 said:
    10/10😭

    Just lemme 👉

    We all were thinking it, but perhaps me and my high IQ fellow warrior mains more than some

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • @wevh.2903 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    Aalmos> @Vancho.8750 said:

    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    There is lot of classes binded to a traitline , thief to trickery , rangers to survivality, mesmers used to be to duels ,etc

    This is true but doesn't make it any better. Class mechanic traitlines are usually loaded with traits that are way too good to pass up on any build. It doesn't help if two of your other traitlines are straight garbage and offer no actual alternatives to warrant losing something like Discipline or Trickery.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    Aalmos> @Vancho.8750 said:

    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    There is lot of classes binded to a traitline , thief to trickery , rangers to survivality, mesmers used to be to duels ,etc

    All these classes pick these traitlines because they are strong for the purpose not because they are needed to function at all. You don't need survival on ranger, the skills that get buffed from survival are good though, but you do not need survival for ranger to function. Thief you can make a build that does not include trickery, I can argue that they just need a shortbow. Mesmer first thing I checked didnt have duelist domination, illusion, mirage.
    My litmus test on warrior though shows that EVERY build possible on Warrior be it PVP or PVE(NOTICE THIS ONE, BOTH, DEAD GIVEAWAY HERE) needs discipline it is integral and it is needed so it can function. Maybe the traitlines that you mentioned are staple for now in PVP but they do not govern how the class is played.

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    Aalmos> @Vancho.8750 said:

    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    There is lot of classes binded to a traitline , thief to trickery , rangers to survivality, mesmers used to be to duels ,etc

    All these classes pick these traitlines because they are strong for the purpose not because they are needed to function at all. You don't need survival on ranger, the skills that get buffed from survival are good though, but you do not need survival for ranger to function. Thief you can make a build that does not include trickery, I can argue that they just need a shortbow. Mesmer first thing I checked didnt have duelist domination, illusion, mirage.
    My litmus test on warrior though shows that EVERY build possible on Warrior be it PVP or PVE(NOTICE THIS ONE, BOTH, DEAD GIVEAWAY HERE) needs discipline it is integral and it is needed so it can function. Maybe the traitlines that you mentioned are staple for now in PVP but they do not govern how the class is played.

    Mesmer WAS binded to duels on both core and hot gw2 right now it isnt.

    You are completely wrong , ranger needs survival traitline sustain to fuction . Any serious ranger build runs survival , even decap druid wich doesnt run survivality skills runs it.

    Thief is even more binded to trickery than rangers to survivality .

    Delete this traitlines and both classes become usless

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    Aalmos> @Vancho.8750 said:

    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    There is lot of classes binded to a traitline , thief to trickery , rangers to survivality, mesmers used to be to duels ,etc

    All these classes pick these traitlines because they are strong for the purpose not because they are needed to function at all. You don't need survival on ranger, the skills that get buffed from survival are good though, but you do not need survival for ranger to function. Thief you can make a build that does not include trickery, I can argue that they just need a shortbow. Mesmer first thing I checked didnt have duelist domination, illusion, mirage.
    My litmus test on warrior though shows that EVERY build possible on Warrior be it PVP or PVE(NOTICE THIS ONE, BOTH, DEAD GIVEAWAY HERE) needs discipline it is integral and it is needed so it can function. Maybe the traitlines that you mentioned are staple for now in PVP but they do not govern how the class is played.

    Mesmer WAS binded to duels on both core and hot gw2 right now it isnt.

    You are completely wrong , ranger needs survival traitline sustain to fuction . Any serious ranger build runs survival , even decap druid wich doesnt run survivality skills runs it.

    Thief is even more binded to trickery than rangers to survivality .

    Delete this traitlines and both classes become usless

    the thing is warrior traitlines sucks right now.
    Tactic is way too good and kind of broken.. allowing warrior to become best support in game with 1 traitline even if you would delete the other 2 warrior would still be among the top sup in game with only 1 traitline..

    on the other hand.. the rest just sucks bad.... def got over nerfed i dont think i see anyone runing def traitline.. from hero to 0
    its just a useless traitline that offer Umm.. nothing? 300 cd passives that arent even so op. like 2 seconds duration 300 seconds cd amazing.
    arms? arms in pvp especially is such a weird traitline that whomever created it got confused in the middle of what he want it to be.. this traitline need a full rework
    to ever be used.. dis offer so much comfort but its a utility traitline..
    now lets talk strength ... strength was the main traitline for warrior (none support) look at it right now.. it doesnt really offer much the might aplication got trashed and might makes right is so wrong.. warrior is in such a bad spot right now.. and the only way to play it is tactic.
    not to mention the weapon choice is so meh.. other classes got decent range weapons most of them.. warrior meh.
    mace? cc only after update. hammer? cc only basially after 0 damage on cc update.
    axe is 1 one hand damage dealing but it got 0 mobility and zero defensive and damage isnt amazing makes you free food.
    axe 4/5 are decent but axe 5 is easy to avoid with its small hit box and all. dagger... dagger tickles now days.. any class with decent sustain you will take forever if you use main hand dagger .. especially when shield for became cc only.. GS is where the damage should come from.. and it doesnt fit the current meta.. it relay on quickness
    so basially warrior got no choice in anything.. you are forced into dagger shield and gs. and you are forced to take the 2 traitlines that still function and not so well.
    and if you dont want to be glass you need spell breaker for full counter.. even the traits on each traitline are obvious choice because the others dont even function

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2020

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    Aalmos> @Vancho.8750 said:

    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    There is lot of classes binded to a traitline , thief to trickery , rangers to survivality, mesmers used to be to duels ,etc

    All these classes pick these traitlines because they are strong for the purpose not because they are needed to function at all. You don't need survival on ranger, the skills that get buffed from survival are good though, but you do not need survival for ranger to function. Thief you can make a build that does not include trickery, I can argue that they just need a shortbow. Mesmer first thing I checked didnt have duelist domination, illusion, mirage.
    My litmus test on warrior though shows that EVERY build possible on Warrior be it PVP or PVE(NOTICE THIS ONE, BOTH, DEAD GIVEAWAY HERE) needs discipline it is integral and it is needed so it can function. Maybe the traitlines that you mentioned are staple for now in PVP but they do not govern how the class is played.

    Mesmer WAS binded to duels on both core and hot gw2 right now it isnt.

    You are completely wrong , ranger needs survival traitline sustain to fuction . Any serious ranger build runs survival , even decap druid wich doesnt run survivality skills runs it.

    Thief is even more binded to trickery than rangers to survivality .

    Delete this traitlines and both classes become usless

    You are not running those cause you need them, you are running those cause they are loaded.
    Here is an example how discipline works, lets say on ranger, so you have only 1 mechanic and all your power comes from it, so everything you do has to go trough your pet and your pet has special attack that activates all your passive traits, but it also has a recourse to it that needs to hit 10 times before it can do the attack, but it attacks slow, also your pet is tied to your weapon and you have to always take Beastmastary so your main mechanic function how it is supposed to or the rest of your traitlines don't work.
    And I got pulled into 'what aboutism' great , people are discussing why warrior is not working and here is him but what about Ranger.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @wevh.2903 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    Aalmos> @Vancho.8750 said:

    Warrior buildcraft is bad cause it needs Discipline to function so, you only get to pick 2 traitlines, 2 of which are total garbage arms and defense. Arms doesn't kitten know what it wants to be and has a kitten dead grandmasters Dual wield, defense has been overnerfed, the mid row is pointless 300 cd trait, a weapon trait that just happens to be missed in the weapon traits rework and only functions for the bar mace skills and not the burst so you get 0.2 daze buff to your skill 3 if you carry one mace WOW, the best trait in the row is that one that gives power from toughness around 100 power to be exact, i don't think it deserves to be even a solo trait by looking other classes almost forgot the minor that gives reduce damage taken if you have retaliation bonus points for being the only thing that gives retaliation on warrior. The balanced stance x stances trait that has 300 cd and buffs stances duration by 20% sounds OP it buffs things by less then a second, the adrenalin management from Cleansing Ire should come from the trait line not from the condi cleanse grandmaster.
    I can't even explain what a mess berserker is, who in their right mind decided it was a good idea to make it a one shot elite speck and the whole traitline doesn't function outside its main mechanic, why are they making a degenerate gameplay by design one shots are not fun for anyone. Before Berserker was a beafy boy with nice enough sustain and medium damage but noo that is too hard for the spammers to play against, dodging telegraphed attacks is hard.
    Warrior as a whole is a botched job of reworks and nerfs that didn't follow through, this is for most classes but it is most noticeable on warrior cause it ain't got any synergy within its builds, and for all the whiny kitten out there, this would happen to your classes also in time.

    There is lot of classes binded to a traitline , thief to trickery , rangers to survivality, mesmers used to be to duels ,etc

    This is true but doesn't make it any better. Class mechanic traitlines are usually loaded with traits that are way too good to pass up on any build. It doesn't help if two of your other traitlines are straight garbage and offer no actual alternatives to warrant losing something like Discipline or Trickery.

    I think thief players should start discussing Trickery before it starts being needed on every build even in PVE, cause it seems it is not there, but it is going in that direction.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2020

    @felix.2386 said:
    what they need to do is shave damage and give better mechanics, which anet refuses to do since 2012
    all they do is buff number and hope it works

    I would say that they are pretty good at crippling mechanics, but very lacking when it come to improve them. I can't recall anything that ANet's devs made great just by making it enjoyable to use, on another hand I've seen plenty of things made artificially great by inflating numbers and effects (or just flat nerf their counter) and to many things made horrendous to play.

    Let's not forget that there are still stunbreaks with a cast time that ANet's tried to make playable by adding a stability stack. [The very definition of a poorly thought solution]

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2020

    Removing damage from CCs was a stupid decision -one which, not surprisingly, came from CmC.

    I've heard people complaining about being kamehameha'd by holosmiths for 12k with Prime Light Beam as an example of why damage on CC is toxic, nobody ever explained me why in the world wouldn't some reasonable multipliers do the trick -which is what happens to literally any skill in game; if something hits too hard it's brought back in line, unless you are a engi with grenades, in which case you can keep the craziest multipliers ever.

    And this comes from a mesmer, I have nothing to gain from damage on CC since all of my CCs never dealt damage to begin with, this didn't nerf me in the slightest.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Removing damage from CCs was a stupid decision -one which, not surprisingly, came from CmC.

    I've heard people complaining about being kamehameha'd by holosmiths for 12k with Prime Light Beam as an example of why damage on CC is toxic, nobody ever explained me why in the world wouldn't some reasonable multipliers do the trick -which is what happens to literally any skill in game; if something hits too hard it's brought back in line, unless you are a engi with grenades, in which case you can keep the craziest multipliers ever.

    And this comes from a mesmer, I have nothing to gain from damage on CC since all of my CCs never dealt damage to begin with, this didn't nerf me in the slightest.

    idk some cc's certainly did need the reduction like cc's that were kinda quick ish and did high damage certainly were getting unhealthy but some the the big tell slower ones that most people with any kind of exp knows how to dodge when they see it coming could have probably kept the damage on. In the case of warrior most cc's keeping their damage might have been ok... the exceptions start for me with rampage because getting hit with a bolder for 8k damage then rushed at for another 8k damage then kicked for 4k damage was just dumb af.

    Then you have cc like big ol bomb and things that actaully take a long time to go off that really should do damage and now dont do damage.
    CC's that have damage modifiers like Reaper shroud 5 , warrior berserker's headbutt, etc that have modifiers that say if this then you get rewarded with increased damage not doing damage kinda feels bad.

    Big aoe elites that cc im ok with not doing damage things like jade winds, chill to the bone, gravity well, etc those losing damage was totally fine imo.
    So for me its a love hate i think they could have broken it down a little bit better on what should and shouldnt keep damage but in the quite sight of things they didnt want one set of class players complaining about another class that got to keep its cc damage on a particular base skill while everyone else lost theirs.

    They did say they would rework or bring the damage back to some skills in question but that was months ago i have the feeling it wont happen now. If it is going to happen it wont happen till another big standardize patch comes which probably wont be for a while my guess is some months or weeks before End of Dragons is set to release.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet promised more frequent updates after the big one, they never came, i lost faith in them and their abillity to balance, so now im just waiting for other mmos to be released.

  • I'm sure if warrior gets damage on CC again it'll finally be able to compete as a meta side noder.
    (Renegade exists) Oh wait...

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Removing damage from CCs was a stupid decision -one which, not surprisingly, came from CmC.

    I've heard people complaining about being kamehameha'd by holosmiths for 12k with Prime Light Beam as an example of why damage on CC is toxic, nobody ever explained me why in the world wouldn't some reasonable multipliers do the trick -which is what happens to literally any skill in game; if something hits too hard it's brought back in line, unless you are a engi with grenades, in which case you can keep the craziest multipliers ever.

    And this comes from a mesmer, I have nothing to gain from damage on CC since all of my CCs never dealt damage to begin with, this didn't nerf me in the slightest.

    idk some cc's certainly did need the reduction like cc's that were kinda quick ish and did high damage certainly were getting unhealthy but some the the big tell slower ones that most people with any kind of exp knows how to dodge when they see it coming could have probably kept the damage on. In the case of warrior most cc's keeping their damage might have been ok... the exceptions start for me with rampage because getting hit with a bolder for 8k damage then rushed at for another 8k damage then kicked for 4k damage was just dumb af.

    Then you have cc like big ol bomb and things that actaully take a long time to go off that really should do damage and now dont do damage.
    CC's that have damage modifiers like Reaper shroud 5 , warrior berserker's headbutt, etc that have modifiers that say if this then you get rewarded with increased damage not doing damage kinda feels bad.

    Big aoe elites that cc im ok with not doing damage things like jade winds, chill to the bone, gravity well, etc those losing damage was totally fine imo.
    So for me its a love hate i think they could have broken it down a little bit better on what should and shouldnt keep damage but in the quite sight of things they didnt want one set of class players complaining about another class that got to keep its cc damage on a particular base skill while everyone else lost theirs.

    They did say they would rework or bring the damage back to some skills in question but that was months ago i have the feeling it wont happen now. If it is going to happen it wont happen till another big standardize patch comes which probably wont be for a while my guess is some months or weeks before End of Dragons is set to release.

    I'm a minority, but the problem with the boulder wasn't the damage per se (even though it was too high; I'd have it lowered by 33%); the problem with the boulder was that they made it a heatseeking missile. The problem from CC as a whole could be solved by just applying some reasonable modifiers, just as it happens for every other skill in game.
    Pistol 5 from mesmer deals 500 damage? It's a 0.5s cast time with 25s cooldown, the low damage is fair. Prime light beam deals 5-6k damage? 1s cast time, 60s cooldown, the high damage is fair. Now they are all on the same level when they clearly aren't the same thing.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Removing damage from CCs was a stupid decision -one which, not surprisingly, came from CmC.

    I've heard people complaining about being kamehameha'd by holosmiths for 12k with Prime Light Beam as an example of why damage on CC is toxic, nobody ever explained me why in the world wouldn't some reasonable multipliers do the trick -which is what happens to literally any skill in game; if something hits too hard it's brought back in line, unless you are a engi with grenades, in which case you can keep the craziest multipliers ever.

    And this comes from a mesmer, I have nothing to gain from damage on CC since all of my CCs never dealt damage to begin with, this didn't nerf me in the slightest.

    idk some cc's certainly did need the reduction like cc's that were kinda quick ish and did high damage certainly were getting unhealthy but some the the big tell slower ones that most people with any kind of exp knows how to dodge when they see it coming could have probably kept the damage on. In the case of warrior most cc's keeping their damage might have been ok... the exceptions start for me with rampage because getting hit with a bolder for 8k damage then rushed at for another 8k damage then kicked for 4k damage was just dumb af.

    Then you have cc like big ol bomb and things that actaully take a long time to go off that really should do damage and now dont do damage.
    CC's that have damage modifiers like Reaper shroud 5 , warrior berserker's headbutt, etc that have modifiers that say if this then you get rewarded with increased damage not doing damage kinda feels bad.

    Big aoe elites that cc im ok with not doing damage things like jade winds, chill to the bone, gravity well, etc those losing damage was totally fine imo.
    So for me its a love hate i think they could have broken it down a little bit better on what should and shouldnt keep damage but in the quite sight of things they didnt want one set of class players complaining about another class that got to keep its cc damage on a particular base skill while everyone else lost theirs.

    They did say they would rework or bring the damage back to some skills in question but that was months ago i have the feeling it wont happen now. If it is going to happen it wont happen till another big standardize patch comes which probably wont be for a while my guess is some months or weeks before End of Dragons is set to release.

    I'm a minority, but the problem with the boulder wasn't the damage per se (even though it was too high; I'd have it lowered by 33%); the problem with the boulder was that they made it a heatseeking missile. The problem from CC as a whole could be solved by just applying some reasonable modifiers, just as it happens for every other skill in game.

    I generally dont agree heatseeking or not the fact that it was a set of skills which was chained together unless you were thief or rev or another warrior at the time you were pretty much promised to land some kind of damage or burn a ton of your foes resources imo its never ok to have a cc attack in a competitive mode doing 8k damage when most professions have on average between 11 and 15k hp in their builds.

    Pistol 5 from mesmer deals 500 damage? It's a 0.5s cast time with 25s cooldown, the low damage is fair. Prime light beam deals 5-6k damage? 1s cast time, 60s cooldown, the high damage is fair. Now they are all on the same level when they clearly aren't the same thing.

    Pistol 5 from mesmer is too fast and does not have enough visual tell in general this is something most people wont argue against.
    Prime light beam actually had enough of a a big tell imo.
    The difference is it only takes 1 dodge to get out of these

    Vs rampage You needed to dodge everything which was chained together I cant stand by cc doing 8k knowing that 3 other button on the bar also dealt high damage and 2 of those other buttons are also cc buttons.
    The best change they maybe could have done was kept cc power scaling as is and just took away their ability to critically hit. This would have at least left them doing some damage but the reason they probably didnt do this is because that would have been a game wide change meaning the skill become super lackluster to use in pve aswell. They could probably look to make traits that give some of the power scaling back to certain cc attacks that way trait investment is required but it would mean likely having to give up things you generally already like to take. Similar to the necro's terror traits which requires 2 traits from 2 different lines to actually get damage out of their fear cc's. IF they did this for other classes i wouldnt have any issues with their cc's doing damage.

  • Jekkt.6045Jekkt.6045 Member ✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @LuRkEr.9462 said:
    Warriors are in a fairly good place in pvp compared to many other classes. There are just a few completely broken classes that make Warrior feel bad, but its generally in a good place.
    Not saying it doesn't need any tweeks, but its not needing anything extreme.

    Shoutbreaker being good doesn't make warrior good as a whole. It says a lot when your one viable build is a support spec with no viable damage builds.

    ele in a nutshell. and even tempest is losing ground because of healbreaker. burn weaver is bad, fresh air is unplayable and lightning rod is mediocre. ele is basically in the same spot as warrior, forced into the support role or a bad off meta build.