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Mirage in WvW

Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭

What stats on armor and weapons would you recommend for WvW?
Condi Mirage.

Last time i played, the meta was full Trailblazer's....
But i question the "condition duration" usefullness.
I mean, i get how Expertise is useful in PvE but in WvW and PvP everyone has condition clense nowdays...
Won't matter how long conditions stay on someone if they just clean themselves of it.

Or is Expertise important for stacking Confusion and Torment?

Currently i have a combination of Trailblazer's and Dire, but idk, is there anything better?

Comments

  • GewRoo.4172GewRoo.4172 Member ✭✭✭

    Trailblazers is absolutely fine. Argument about cleanse depends on match up, there are more than enough viable builds which have limited access to cleansing (and you have several options of applying conditions with your meta condi mirage build). Increasing condition duration is always a. good pick imo. Alternatively you can try full dire or even carrion or mix it all up depending on your prefered style of play.

  • GewRoo.4172GewRoo.4172 Member ✭✭✭

    There is no relation between stacking conditions and expertise btw.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @GewRoo.4172 said:
    Trailblazers is absolutely fine. Argument about cleanse depends on match up, there are more than enough viable builds which have limited access to cleansing (and you have several options of applying conditions with your meta condi mirage build). Increasing condition duration is always a. good pick imo. Alternatively you can try full dire or even carrion or mix it all up depending on your prefered style of play.

    Cool! Thanks!
    So basically, i just have to get some more Dire or Trailblazer trinkets (i think i have one or two power ones from previous build stil on), and i'm set!
    My mirage is not exactly meta build, it's simmilar, but idk, it works for me so it's fine i guess.

    I just have to replace the torch and scepter with a staff and pistol. > @GewRoo.4172 said:

    There is no relation between stacking conditions and expertise btw.

    I meant that as in, if conditions last longer, i'll have a chance to apply a bigger stack before the first applied ones run out, right? Potentially having a bigger stack of them than i would if they had shorter duration?

    Or is that not how it works?

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    I meant that as in, if conditions last longer, i'll have a chance to apply a bigger stack before the first applied ones run out, right? Potentially having a bigger stack of them than i would if they had shorter duration?

    Or is that not how it works?

    It does not matter. It's only about the damage. Trailblazer deals more damage than dire, when (!) the condition (be it a stack or not) is not cleansed. If your target cleanses the condition, then it depends when it cleanses it.

    E.g. condi xy has a duration of 2 seconds and ticks with 100 damage on trailblazer gear and with 120 on dire gear each second. The expertise on trailblazer will increase the duration by 42%.

    Scenario 1: your target does not cleanse the condition:

    • dire: 120 damage x 2 seconds = 240 damage
    • trailblazer: 100 damage x 2,84 seconds = 284 damage

    Trailblazer deals more damage

    Scenario 2: your target cleanses the condition after 1 second:

    • dire: 120 damage
    • trailblazer: 100 damage

    Dire deals more damage and your expertise is useless and you end up with worse effective attributes than your 3 attribute dire gear would grant you.

    Trailblazer is still often better, because your cover- and soft-cc-conditions have a longer duration as well, which makes it easier to overcome your targets cleansing capabilities. Since the feb25 patch trailblazer works overall better than dire to my experience, because the base duration of a lot of conditions has become pretty low.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    Trailblazer is still often better, because your cover- and soft-cc-conditions have a longer duration as well, which makes it easier to overcome your targets cleansing capabilities. Since the feb25 patch trailblazer works overall better than dire to my experience, because the base duration of a lot of conditions has become pretty low.

    Yeah. The value of a double-duration Taunt, Slow, Chill, or Immob is immense.

    For Mez you've also got skills that apply pretty big stacks of short-duration Confusion, and making those last longer makes it a lot harder to just "wait it out" (by accident or on purpose).

  • jpsssss.7530jpsssss.7530 Member ✭✭✭

    Condi still works. As an FYI, you pretty much just lose to most Elementalist builds in 1v1 as condi mirage. They can chain cleanses very easily.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    Mix Dire and Trailblazer until you have 80 - 100% duration on the Condition you apply most/your most valuable Condition.

    If for example that's Confusion, use Trailblazer until you have 80 - 100% duration on it then start mixing in Dire. That way you can maximize the duration/damage of your most valuable Condition while also giving other Conditions more damage despite sacrificing their duration.

    Another example would be this; I use Balthazar runes + Smoldering Sigil and enough Trailblazer to get 100% Burn Duration on condi Engi. I can then mix in a Dire Amulet and 2 Rings because any more Trailblazer and I'm overcapping my Burn Duration. Although other Conditions like Bleed, Poison, etc. will not be overcapped, I'm more concerned with using them as cover Conditions to bury Burns on people while said cover Conditions are also dealing more damage per-tick. If they're cleansed early on that's okay because they'll hit harder while my Burns will last longer.

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  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    I meant that as in, if conditions last longer, i'll have a chance to apply a bigger stack before the first applied ones run out, right? Potentially having a bigger stack of them than i would if they had shorter duration?

    Or is that not how it works?

    It does not matter. It's only about the damage. Trailblazer deals more damage than dire, when (!) the condition (be it a stack or not) is not cleansed. If your target cleanses the condition, then it depends when it cleanses it.

    E.g. condi xy has a duration of 2 seconds and ticks with 100 damage on trailblazer gear and with 120 on dire gear each second. The expertise on trailblazer will increase the duration by 42%.

    Scenario 1: your target does not cleanse the condition:

    • dire: 120 damage x 2 seconds = 240 damage
    • trailblazer: 100 damage x 2,84 seconds = 284 damage

    Trailblazer deals more damage

    Scenario 2: your target cleanses the condition after 1 second:

    • dire: 120 damage
    • trailblazer: 100 damage

    Dire deals more damage and your expertise is useless and you end up with worse effective attributes than your 3 attribute dire gear would grant you.

    Trailblazer is still often better, because your cover- and soft-cc-conditions have a longer duration as well, which makes it easier to overcome your targets cleansing capabilities. Since the feb25 patch trailblazer works overall better than dire to my experience, because the base duration of a lot of conditions has become pretty low.

    That explains a lot actually, thank you!

    @jpsssss.7530 said:
    Condi still works. As an FYI, you pretty much just lose to most Elementalist builds in 1v1 as condi mirage. They can chain cleanses very easily.

    Yeah, i remember Elementalists from before too lol. They really suck to fight against as a Mirage.

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    Mix Dire and Trailblazer until you have 80 - 100% duration on the Condition you apply most/your most valuable Condition.

    If for example that's Confusion, use Trailblazer until you have 80 - 100% duration on it then start mixing in Dire. That way you can maximize the duration/damage of your most valuable Condition while also giving other Conditions more damage despite sacrificing their duration.

    Another example would be this; I use Balthazar runes + Smoldering Sigil and enough Trailblazer to get 100% Burn Duration on condi Engi. I can then mix in a Dire Amulet and 2 Rings because any more Trailblazer and I'm overcapping my Burn Duration. Although other Conditions like Bleed, Poison, etc. will not be overcapped, I'm more concerned with using them as cover Conditions to bury Burns on people while said cover Conditions are also dealing more damage per-tick. If they're cleansed early on that's okay because they'll hit harder while my Burns will last longer.

    That's interesting, yeah! And you're right, anything more than 100% wouldn't get much benefit.
    I'll have to check how much duration i have when i play.
    Thanks for the tip!

  • Mirage has been dead in PVP/WVW ever since the 1-dodge nerf.

    Which is weird cause mirage kinda sucked in WVW with 2 dodges, except as a solo roamer where is was "ok".

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:
    Mirage has been dead in PVP/WVW ever since the 1-dodge nerf.

    Which is weird cause mirage kinda sucked in WVW with 2 dodges, except as a solo roamer where is was "ok".

    Yeah, Mirage was mostly a solo roamer and as you said, not even great at it anyway. Now, with 1 dodge, it's even worse solo, and completely useless in big fights where you literally HAVE to have 2 dodges to dodge all the AOE spam. Or you can slot Blink in Utility and lose 1 utility for fights and be even more useless.

    I switched to Chronomancer because of this. I still sometimes dodge to use an "ambush" skill lol, force of habit, but at least i'm more useful now to my guild than i was as a mirage. Too bad Chrono is so bad at soloing that i can't really go roaming anymore. The damage is abysmall compared to what literally any other class can do, and that's with optimised gear.