viability of burn DH in zergs? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home WvW

viability of burn DH in zergs?

So i’ve been playing core power DPS for a bit but am interested in a burn DPS build (since this is what i play in pvp). I’m curious, is anyone having consistent success running burn DH in zergs? from a theorycraft standpoint I think the prevalence of FBs and scrappers will make burns useless. personally i hardly take condi damage in zergs and i don’t wanna invest in gear for a build that doesn’t work

Comments

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    As has been mentioned time and time and time again, its fine against pugs but any zerg with proper condi conversion will effectivly nullify condi application. Best case scenario is using it as a flanker but IMO there are better classes with condi for that. In comparison power DH is one of the highest dps in a zerg - if not the highest, I've seen 1 DH having more damage in a fight than 5 revs combined - and it amaze me its not meta. Maybe thats a good thing.

    Anyway, the short answer is try it out for yourself. Even if you fail at zerging, you can try roaming. If you invest in ascended, you can move most of the gear to a roaming rev too.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    Opponents Skill Level
    Awful <----------------|---middle---------------------> Great

    The line is where burn guard flips from being great (on the left of the line) to average, and it steadily declines to mediocrity the farther right you go.

    Edit: It's important to note that putting the population of players along that graph would result in a negative linear slope, not a bell curve, so burn DH still works against more than it doesn't work against.

  • condi only works vs unorganised groups

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    As dawdler said: condi is unreliable in a zergfight and esp. burnguard due to its lack of cover conditions. And why would you want to run burnguard, when you can do 7 to 10k holy strikes? The power guard zerg build has such an absurdly high burst even on its support weapon (staff), that you can even roam with it.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah I play it on occasion and it really only works against potatoes and people using siege. As soon as people are aware that there is a burn guard running around it becomes a pretty useless build fairly fast. So why do I play it? Because its a fun concept and I like baked potatoes.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    As dawdler said: condi is unreliable in a zergfight and esp. burnguard due to its lack of cover conditions. And why would you want to run burnguard, when you can do 7 to 10k holy strikes? The power guard zerg build has such an absurdly high burst even on its support weapon (staff), that you can even roam with it.

    Can you link the build for power build please?

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    As dawdler said: condi is unreliable in a zergfight and esp. burnguard due to its lack of cover conditions. And why would you want to run burnguard, when you can do 7 to 10k holy strikes? The power guard zerg build has such an absurdly high burst even on its support weapon (staff), that you can even roam with it.

    Can you link the build for power build please?

    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Power_Guardian

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @allshallperish.4620 said:
    condi only works vs unorganised groups

    Which is basically every public tag.

    Yes, power is better, but condi isn't too bad.

    I recommend getting two gear sets.
    One condi, one power (better would be three, so you can switch to support as well)

    If you see an enemy group with a lot of different guilds in it, it's fine to play condi, especially if your group has a lot of scourges that can put up cover conditions.

    If the enemy group is a guild group or consists mostly of one guild or known gvg guilds, you should swap to power. (Can even be power dragonhunter if your group prefers to go melee a lot)

    Right now basically every guard build is strong.
    And that's the real problem. But good for you.
    No other class has as many build options as guard has right now.

    Every class has only like 2 viable build options for zergs right now. Guardian has 5 (power/condi-core, power/condi-dh, support fb)

    IT'S KITTEN ANNOYING THAT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IS HAPPENING, BALANCE WISE.

    Pvp got a patch, but wvw has been neglected once again...

  • If you have cover condis, which depends on your utilities, traits, and sigils, you can do it. Don't lay your AoE's until you see your zerg's Spellbreakers drop WoD on the enemy though. A Burn DH in a zerg is more about timing, same with an Axe/Axe warrior who melee bombs. You can do it, and create/finish downs, but your timing makes the difference in its effectiveness. Versus unorganized groups Burn DH is a braindead faceroll way to collect bags, in a zerg you have to be more tactical about it.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    I'm sure someone else has already said it by now, but hybrid DH is pretty controversial.

    On the one hand, it is capable of catastrophic damage, generating multiple downs on it is own. On the other hand burn converts into aegis so your burns may take power damage away from your group (eg., generating enemy blocks for friendly Rev hammers).

    I would keep the DH in reserve for clouding or if you gain expert experience targetting hostile backliners and stick to full-power core Guard if you join squads. Having tested it a bit, there are easily as many or more situations where the hybrid does less damage than the pure power build anyway. It's a small situational envolope where you can really apply the crunch. Keep in mind, it's not like the burst damage on a pure power build is low by any stretch, you can easily create downs and downcleaves with that too. The low cooldown burst is so good you can even do a bunch of solo and cloud stuff with that too.

  • as for cover condis, there is sword of justice.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    It's good, but probably off meta since there are hard counters, but inattentive players are punished so badly for screwing up that it can be effective against most wvwers, including those that are just like "just cleanse lul". I think power guardian probably is more reliable in any case because it gives more support while doing the damage.

    In general burn guard is also a hybrid to a degree by mixing power damage via grieving gear, since power scales good with sword of justice and this can also bypass cleansing issues. If you're full TB/dire, you're doing it wrong.

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Condis in a scrapper meta... LUL

    Aurora Glade Server Leader

    [VR] Violent Resolution - SoS

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is about the worst case scenario for burn dh in zergs. Little to no cover conditions, strips, corrupts, or boon support from your squad against a comped guild run with 2 cleansers per party. Majority of the burning damage still gets through because it's covered multiple times a second with vulnerability and cripple.

    If your guild runs scourges that can cover your burning damage and strip protection/resistance, your damage goes up considerably against guild groups and even more so against pugs.

    If your guild runs a comp of mostly heralds, reapers, and scrappers then you're better off playing power dh because there's nothing to help your burning get through. In general, power dh is better against coordinated guild groups.

    No comp against groups that are not well organized, burn dh is very strong. Easily the best class for clouding

    With a guild against groups that are not well organized, burn dh is busted af

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Burn DH as a part of an ambush group?

    Yea.

    Part of main zerg? Heck no.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭

    condi's are useless in zergs.
    playing DH in blob with bow is useless also.

  • jul.7602jul.7602 Member ✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    This is about the worst case scenario for burn dh in zergs. Little to no cover conditions, strips, corrupts, or boon support from your squad against a comped guild run with 2 cleansers per party. Majority of the burning damage still gets through because it's covered multiple times a second with vulnerability and cripple.

    If your guild runs scourges that can cover your burning damage and strip protection/resistance, your damage goes up considerably against guild groups and even more so against pugs.

    If your guild runs a comp of mostly heralds, reapers, and scrappers then you're better off playing power dh because there's nothing to help your burning get through. In general, power dh is better against coordinated guild groups.

    No comp against groups that are not well organized, burn dh is very strong. Easily the best class for clouding

    With a guild against groups that are not well organized, burn dh is busted af

    Finally someone what understands. +1 because I don't have to debunk anything.