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CC needs a purge

Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

Title says it all. The nerfs on classes can wait until we fix the atrocious amount of cc in this game. I don't mind playing against OP things nearly as much as I mind not being able to play my game at certain times due to constantly being under the effects of some form of cc. Easiest things to start with:

  • Static aura needs either a longer icd or the stun needs to be removed entirely and replaced with something else (I'd also be in favor of changing static shield on engi to no longer stun in return for 1 sec extra block time. CC a target on block or when they hit you is interesting and cool in theoy, but with the amount of hits and Aoe in the game currently it just creates way too much control)
  • Any traits that provide additional effects on cc need to go (immob on daze, chill on fear, dmg or any damaging conditions on cc, immob when striking a cced target, etc.)
  • Remove or redesign sigils/runes that improve cc durations
  • All cc access in the game needs to be looked at, not every weapon needs a cc and not every build should/needs to be able to cc chain an enemy (just a principle to remember)
  • Some classes could use a reduction in stunbreak ability given reductions in cc presence but that can also be adjusted as needed

Comments

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    Naaah. Lightning Rod go BRRRRRRRRR!

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @GewRoo.4172 said:
    Yeaaaah let's take even more complexity out of this game. Protip: Don't get CCed.

    Yes, much complexity in spamming cc chains. So interesting and engaging. Wouldn't be at all more complex to have to read what your team is throwing out as well and coordinate your attacks like in most team based games...

  • Apokriphos.7042Apokriphos.7042 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    I agree with OP. A grp chaining CCs requires little coordination for massive rewards. There definitely should be a point of limited return on chaining Ccs that fully disable another character. Not only is it unfun to watch, but it is similarly unfun to do.

    I would suggest returning some dmg to stuns in compensation for a cc invulnerability effect after sequential cc.

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭✭

    .25 second immunity to all cc from a soft cc, .5s immunity from a hard cc.

    Global rule that way anet doesnt have to spend their interns time micromanaging every cc skill.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    so sad that people call for nerfs on a skill that doesn't exist :|

  • CC in this game is a mixed bag. Do I really have to carry a CC build in storage for those rare moments? CC skills are all over the place and not everyone remembers all of them at the same time while fighting and staying alive. Maybe have an option to have CC toggled in the top right of every skill on the UI so you have a better a quicker reaction?

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ario.8964 said:
    (I'd also be in favor of changing static shield on engi to no longer stun in return for 1 sec extra block time. CC a target on block or when they hit you is interesting and cool in theoy, but with the amount of hits and Aoe in the game currently it just creates way too much control)

    YES! Although, I think that your suggested change would make the engi shield too similar to other shield skills in the game. The engi shield has too much CC in general. Most offhand weapons (where skills are strongest +longest CD) have 1 CC. Engi has essentially a minimum of 3. Imagine then if the next elite spec the engi gets has a CC on the main hand weapon. . .

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    so sad that people call for nerfs on a skill that doesn't exist :|

    What skill is getting nerfed without existing?

  • @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    .25 second immunity to all cc from a soft cc, .5s immunity from a hard cc.

    Global rule that way anet doesnt have to spend their interns time micromanaging every cc skill.

    This would absolutely destroy warrior even more. A thief tapping someone with Headshot before a warrior uses Bulls Charge would be handing them free stab. Either this concept is useless and does nothing because the effect is too short, or it's too strong and CCing someone is as wasted as if they had stab. It's already too easy to ruin CC chains by overriding longer CC with shorter or weaker after it lands, this would make it useless before it even lands.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    so sad that people call for nerfs on a skill that doesn't exist :|

    What skill is getting nerfed without existing?

    Static Aura, Don't get me wrong.. I know exactly what skill you mean, but if you do call for nerfs at least know what they are called

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    HEAR,HEAR , I SAY ALL STUNBREAKS SHOULD HAVE A SECOND PASSIVE THAT PREVENTS BEING CCED IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS.
    Caps lock on cause it seems funny and it is kinda odd that running a long cd skill that removes cc doesn't do kitten.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @GewRoo.4172 said:
    Yeaaaah let's take even more complexity out of this game. Protip: Don't get CCed.

    Yes, much complexity in spamming cc chains. So interesting and engaging. Wouldn't be at all more complex to have to read what your team is throwing out as well and coordinate your attacks like in most team based games...

    Only using CC's is like least effective way to deal damage though.

    If someone only uses CC's on you for the longest time, you can sit back and wait until they're out of them to put one stunbreak to the most efficient use.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2020

    @GewRoo.4172 said:
    Yeaaaah let's take even more complexity out of this game. Protip: Don't get CCed.

    Taking a bath in stability or running through a PvE rotation littered with blocks and evades are not at all complex.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    .25 second immunity to all cc from a soft cc, .5s immunity from a hard cc.

    Global rule that way anet doesnt have to spend their interns time micromanaging every cc skill.

    This would absolutely destroy warrior even more. A thief tapping someone with Headshot before a warrior uses Bulls Charge would be handing them free stab. Either this concept is useless and does nothing because the effect is too short, or it's too strong and CCing someone is as wasted as if they had stab. It's already too easy to ruin CC chains by overriding longer CC with shorter or weaker after it lands, this would make it useless before it even lands.

    Shame that warrior was designed as "the easiest class to play" in a game without cross-classing. Half of this game was built in a way that doomed it to forever being outright overpowered or woefully ineffective with no middle ground.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    .25 second immunity to all cc from a soft cc, .5s immunity from a hard cc.

    Global rule that way anet doesnt have to spend their interns time micromanaging every cc skill.

    This would absolutely destroy warrior even more. A thief tapping someone with Headshot before a warrior uses Bulls Charge would be handing them free stab. Either this concept is useless and does nothing because the effect is too short, or it's too strong and CCing someone is as wasted as if they had stab. It's already too easy to ruin CC chains by overriding longer CC with shorter or weaker after it lands, this would make it useless before it even lands.

    Shame that warrior was designed as "the easiest class to play" in a game without cross-classing. Half of this game was built in a way that doomed it to forever being outright overpowered or woefully ineffective with no middle ground.

    you can say it about any class tbh, thief by design has no counterplay, so by default it will either win when its too strong or do nothing when its too weak.
    necro class mechanic is RAW hp, so it either can facetank with the HP when its too much or it gets gibbed when its not, and so on and so fourth.

  • Supreme.3164Supreme.3164 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    .25 second immunity to all cc from a soft cc, .5s immunity from a hard cc.

    Global rule that way anet doesnt have to spend their interns time micromanaging every cc skill.

    This would absolutely destroy warrior even more. A thief tapping someone with Headshot before a warrior uses Bulls Charge would be handing them free stab. Either this concept is useless and does nothing because the effect is too short, or it's too strong and CCing someone is as wasted as if they had stab. It's already too easy to ruin CC chains by overriding longer CC with shorter or weaker after it lands, this would make it useless before it even lands.

    Shame that warrior was designed as "the easiest class to play" in a game without cross-classing. Half of this game was built in a way that doomed it to forever being outright overpowered or woefully ineffective with no middle ground.

    you can say it about any class tbh, thief by design has no counterplay, so by default it will either win when its too strong or do nothing when its too weak.
    necro class mechanic is RAW hp, so it either can facetank with the HP when its too much or it gets gibbed when its not, and so on and so fourth.

    This is something I stated always, compared to GW1......GW2 is just not up there in terms of design, we can say all we want about the art direction and engine which are both amazing...but the class design is simply awful and it's really a shame because this game could have been the greatest MMO ever created, they had everything in place...but squandered everything

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    A player is not entitled to a fair 1v1 vs. everything. Conquest is not a 1v1 simulator, so he's correct that there are many ways to analyse and improve upon a lost encounter

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    .25 second immunity to all cc from a soft cc, .5s immunity from a hard cc.

    Global rule that way anet doesnt have to spend their interns time micromanaging every cc skill.

    This would absolutely destroy warrior even more. A thief tapping someone with Headshot before a warrior uses Bulls Charge would be handing them free stab. Either this concept is useless and does nothing because the effect is too short, or it's too strong and CCing someone is as wasted as if they had stab. It's already too easy to ruin CC chains by overriding longer CC with shorter or weaker after it lands, this would make it useless before it even lands.

    Shame that warrior was designed as "the easiest class to play" in a game without cross-classing. Half of this game was built in a way that doomed it to forever being outright overpowered or woefully ineffective with no middle ground.

    you can say it about any class tbh, thief by design has no counterplay, so by default it will either win when its too strong or do nothing when its too weak.
    necro class mechanic is RAW hp, so it either can facetank with the HP when its too much or it gets gibbed when its not, and so on and so fourth.

    Every class was never very deep, but Warrior's lack of depth was gratuitously evident from launch. It was never good in PvP because it effectively amounted to a Thief who couldn't teleport back out of anything: it was almost always a one-way street into a 100b burst; get a free kill or suffer a pathetic death. The only times when it started to become "better" was when a bunch of patches started passively baking damage and effect negation into all of its traits and weapons. And when Warrior would drop below the level of "general effectiveness," it was because patches took those little baby toys away. While, yes, it's true with every class, Warrior is the most salient gauge for the effectiveness of tool tips over player skill: it is never good when its patches are bad, but it's far too powerful for its effort whenever the patches favor it.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    GW2 class design is miles above other MMO's I've played. I actually came to Gw2 from WoW because, after the great "pruning" or de-powercreeping of every class. Just about every ounce of depth, difficulty, or fun has been systematically stripped away from every class.

    WoW Forums cheered it on at first, with the majority of complaints coming from the PvP community, but there hit a point where Blizzard stripped away so much that classes were hardly recognizable anymore... and when people thought they couldn't possibly take anymore away, when rotations for some classes could be simplified down to 1 damage button and a 1-2 dps modifiers to empower that 1 dps button (arcane mage *cough)-- they took more away.

    I've seen what happens when a game has been de-powercrept to a point where you can hardly think to de-power anyone further. It ends feeling even more imbalanced than when everything was broken. Now many look back and think "gee, the game sure was more fun when classes were strong"

    I don't think GW2 has fallen into the same pit WoW has yet, but I've seen it heading in that direction for a while, and people continue to cheer Anet on. But who knows, maybe my words are just the salt of an ex-Ele main who's been on a year-long search of a new class to call home.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd say that it's less about CC needing a purge than CC counters needing work (We don't need more CC counter, we need better quality of CC counter).

    I believe that having tools to interrupt other players is an healthy thing, however I don't think that long cast time CC with long lasting effect are an healthy thing. Stability need to stop being a "CC aegis", it need to reduce CC effects by 100% over a set duration without removing the "interrupt" part of the differents CCs.

    ANet's devs really need to understand that being CC locked just isn't "fun".

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How do you expect to kill foes with the wet towel level of damage we have since the February nerf if we don't have CC? In fact, every cc attack which hit hard was neutered to the point that now the only reason to have those attacks is to disable enemy foes, since in terms of damage they essentially do nothing.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I'd say that it's less about CC needing a purge than CC counters needing work (We don't need more CC counter, we need better quality of CC counter).

    I believe that having tools to interrupt other players is an healthy thing, however I don't think that long cast time CC with long lasting effect are an healthy thing. Stability need to stop being a "CC aegis", it need to reduce CC effects by 100% over a set duration without removing the "interrupt" part of the differents CCs.

    ANet's devs really need to understand that being CC locked just isn't "fun".

    You say that yet the majority hardly understand how to deal with conditions, if anything CC as of right now in term of sustain/skill use is very similar to clearing conditions.

    Use your judgement to tell when they're done/used most CC, akind to how you think about when it's time to clear the peak of conditions.

    Those who only rely on so much of it are bound to be countered by Stability users like Conditions gets countered by Resistance.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I'd say that it's less about CC needing a purge than CC counters needing work (We don't need more CC counter, we need better quality of CC counter).

    I believe that having tools to interrupt other players is an healthy thing, however I don't think that long cast time CC with long lasting effect are an healthy thing. Stability need to stop being a "CC aegis", it need to reduce CC effects by 100% over a set duration without removing the "interrupt" part of the differents CCs.

    ANet's devs really need to understand that being CC locked just isn't "fun".

    Use your judgement to tell when they're done/used most CC, akind to how you think about when it's time to clear the peak of conditions.

    Those who only rely on so much of it are bound to be countered by Stability users like Conditions gets countered by Resistance.

    This is why GW2 will never be a skill-based game: everything comes down to just playing extremely passively while whittling away a target until they can't defend themselves. It's just a numbers game of cooldowns. Skillful aggression has no place in GW2. Waiting for an opponent to make a move should not be the consistent key to victory. It just turns everything into frustrating, autopilot stalemates; and that dynamic is extremely suppressive for player creativity.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I'd say that it's less about CC needing a purge than CC counters needing work (We don't need more CC counter, we need better quality of CC counter).

    I believe that having tools to interrupt other players is an healthy thing, however I don't think that long cast time CC with long lasting effect are an healthy thing. Stability need to stop being a "CC aegis", it need to reduce CC effects by 100% over a set duration without removing the "interrupt" part of the differents CCs.

    ANet's devs really need to understand that being CC locked just isn't "fun".

    Use your judgement to tell when they're done/used most CC, akind to how you think about when it's time to clear the peak of conditions.

    Those who only rely on so much of it are bound to be countered by Stability users like Conditions gets countered by Resistance.

    This is why GW2 will never be a skill-based game: everything comes down to just playing extremely passively while whittling away a target until they can't defend themselves. It's just a numbers game of cooldowns. Skillful aggression has no place in GW2. Waiting for an opponent to make a move should not be the consistent key to victory. It just turns everything into frustrating, autopilot stalemates; and that dynamic is extremely suppressive for player creativity.

    I can simplify any game out there the same way you do to discredit their existence.

    90% of the time taking initiative and I win my fights so I could careless.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • CTRL + Z the majority of every PvP patch since Feb 25th and CC would be far less prevalent.

    When you have damage, the game becomes actually doing damage. When you don't have damage, it just encourages spamming disruptive skills and locking people down so that you can essentially live forever so long as you aren't way outnumbered.
    The increased CD on Stunbreaks also didn't do any favors there.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • Diminishing returns on all forms of crowd control. It should be tactical not spammable.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I'd say that it's less about CC needing a purge than CC counters needing work (We don't need more CC counter, we need better quality of CC counter).

    I believe that having tools to interrupt other players is an healthy thing, however I don't think that long cast time CC with long lasting effect are an healthy thing. Stability need to stop being a "CC aegis", it need to reduce CC effects by 100% over a set duration without removing the "interrupt" part of the differents CCs.

    ANet's devs really need to understand that being CC locked just isn't "fun".

    Use your judgement to tell when they're done/used most CC, akind to how you think about when it's time to clear the peak of conditions.

    Those who only rely on so much of it are bound to be countered by Stability users like Conditions gets countered by Resistance.

    This is why GW2 will never be a skill-based game: everything comes down to just playing extremely passively while whittling away a target until they can't defend themselves. It's just a numbers game of cooldowns. Skillful aggression has no place in GW2. Waiting for an opponent to make a move should not be the consistent key to victory. It just turns everything into frustrating, autopilot stalemates; and that dynamic is extremely suppressive for player creativity.

    I can simplify any game out there the same way you do to discredit their existence.

    90% of the time taking initiative and I win my fights so I could careless.

    You'll never be able to flick kill a guy botting at you in GW2. The success of aggression in GW2 is almost entirely predicated on build comp and cooldowns. Movement, aim, or some other general skill that any player can master and manipulate will not save you.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I'd say that it's less about CC needing a purge than CC counters needing work (We don't need more CC counter, we need better quality of CC counter).

    I believe that having tools to interrupt other players is an healthy thing, however I don't think that long cast time CC with long lasting effect are an healthy thing. Stability need to stop being a "CC aegis", it need to reduce CC effects by 100% over a set duration without removing the "interrupt" part of the differents CCs.

    ANet's devs really need to understand that being CC locked just isn't "fun".

    Use your judgement to tell when they're done/used most CC, akind to how you think about when it's time to clear the peak of conditions.

    Those who only rely on so much of it are bound to be countered by Stability users like Conditions gets countered by Resistance.

    This is why GW2 will never be a skill-based game: everything comes down to just playing extremely passively while whittling away a target until they can't defend themselves. It's just a numbers game of cooldowns. Skillful aggression has no place in GW2. Waiting for an opponent to make a move should not be the consistent key to victory. It just turns everything into frustrating, autopilot stalemates; and that dynamic is extremely suppressive for player creativity.

    I can simplify any game out there the same way you do to discredit their existence.

    90% of the time taking initiative and I win my fights so I could careless.

    You'll never be able to flick kill a guy botting at you in GW2. The success of aggression in GW2 is almost entirely predicated on build comp and cooldowns. Movement, aim, or some other general skill that any player can master and manipulate will not save you.

    Quake, game that mostly reside on pure skill still has the most narrowed gameplay of all, even less complex that GW2, get the right guns, dominate the map, you win. The aiming and moving part while more mechanical is still in the players judgement to perform.

    The ability to calculate actions is where true skill rests at along the good set of actions that are uniformly available. (Evade, Stow, LoS.) There can be /bad/ skills but those bad skills can also be surprisingly useful in scenario's that most can't imagine because of their linear sight on everything else.

    A bot in any game would be improbable to flick anyway. Obviously it rests on the intend of the build, that doesn't mean anything yet again. I could give you a solution to every problem and you will narrow down to some answer that have no purpose but to question why are you even posting anything.

    Someone being beaten doesn't exclusively scream bad player, that's where matchups and balance lies. You're forgetting how by proven nature for a while that this community is quick and fast to jump on anything that takes the least effort, even if it means losing something that could actually turn an entire fight in their favor because that something is unlikely to be needed, surprisingly that's when you see "memes" become slowly relevant again just for the niche of stomping this one build who people thought never needed the feature that could save them.

    There's only a few cases where you had immortal meta builds that were overtuned by their unchanged design (Tetherbreaker is the one I can easily recall). Holo is still riding that with so many oversights, still not as bad as it used to be.

    For me to tell people to not stunbreak right away when they get CC spammed is not for you tell me "GW2 is this, therefor that." no, most were to criticize the change to CC damage and forget to imagine how it would be like to CC spam WITH damage. Telling me people wouldn't have to CC spam isn't true either, they would have anyway while we'd have all utility generally nerfed therefor be worst.

    If anything, CC spam is only worst damage and we still get complains from people getting CC locked. There's so much to do and yet we are trying to narrow this game into nothing? Again, why are you even posting anything.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:
    .25 second immunity to all cc from a soft cc, .5s immunity from a hard cc.

    Global rule that way anet doesnt have to spend their interns time micromanaging every cc skill.

    This would absolutely destroy warrior even more. A thief tapping someone with Headshot before a warrior uses Bulls Charge would be handing them free stab. Either this concept is useless and does nothing because the effect is too short, or it's too strong and CCing someone is as wasted as if they had stab. It's already too easy to ruin CC chains by overriding longer CC with shorter or weaker after it lands, this would make it useless before it even lands.

    Ok. Make it immunity per character hit. Remove alot of the lower tier cc. Development is iterative.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM