Will there be little to no waypoints in EoD? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Will there be little to no waypoints in EoD?

Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 13, 2020 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Being that we will be going to a Zenophobic part of the world (lore wise, please dont take it personally), will we see little to no Asuran tech in the new maps, encouraging players to travel to locations on the maps with other players, who may help them get back up if they become downed.

Personally Id love to see EoD with very few waypoints due to the standing lore 'Cantha expelled all nonhumans and closed its borders long ago. There is currently no diplomatic contact with Cantha.' If waypoints are placed in, they must look like they were bought their by airship.

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Comments

  • Interesting point. By the third expansion, they may expect most players to have mounts to make up for reduced WPs, but I suspect they'll have to include them in some form for those who don't. Rather than Asuratech, you might instead see magical teleporters a bit like the god shrines in Siren's Landing (in addition to ley gliding and other mobility options).

    HoT gave us gliding and mushrooms, PoF gave us mounts, Drizzlewood gave us parachute dropping. What EoD gives us in terms of movement remains to be seen, but it's gonna be present in some form, guaranteed.

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    I doubt it, Waypoints are a staple and a good feature to have if you've got a lot going on on larger maps.
    We don't know how we're going to arrive to Cantha just yet or what it's like their currently, They've been in contact with the Zephyrites according to the wiki so maybe they could have given them waypoints?

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    @AgentMoore.9453 said:
    Interesting point. By the third expansion, they may expect most players to have mounts to make up for reduced WPs, but I suspect they'll have to include them in some form for those who don't. Rather than Asuratech, you might instead see magical teleporters a bit like the god shrines in Siren's Landing (in addition to ley gliding and other mobility options).

    HoT gave us gliding and mushrooms, PoF gave us mounts, Drizzlewood gave us parachute dropping. What EoD gives us in terms of movement remains to be seen, but it's gonna be present in some form, guaranteed.

    Why on earth would people skip Stories? If you dont have a mount by the time you hit EoD thats the players fault, skipping story is bad, its not a surprise why some new players are clueless on what the story is all about, since they all went to PoF first before HoT.

    I'd like to have an experience where death in the game means something, and no waypoints does mean something. Dying where you cant get back to where you were quickly will give players a fear of actually dying rather than just 'lul i died, anyway'. Would bring a sense of exploration and travel back in.

    As for something new, Tbh I think they have covered movement, If they surprise us with 2 elite specs at once I'd be happy with that.

    But knowing the way it may go, we may see a new race since that was on the demand for years, so that will be the new thing along side the elite spec.

  • Zephire.8049Zephire.8049 Member ✭✭✭

    Instead of waypoints, they may utilize shrines (Siren's Landing being an example of a map with one WP but there being 4 other shrines to teleport to).

    That said, Asura weren't present in Elona either but we still got Waypoints and Dragonfall showed us that waypoints are mobile, so while Cantha may not have the tech currently, as soon as we show up they gain access to it because it's ready to go and can be placed where needed. Tie it to story progression and you have lore reasons for why there are WPs.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:

    Personally Id love to see EoD with very few waypoints

    Same, one waypoint a map would be great, death needs to be punishing.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game. No one WP now at things like Matriarch in VB with the WP right below and a choppa up. WP's far away will surely affect the players who die as they have no choice but to lay there now for 80 percent of the event.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Even without Asura-tech, we could have something like waypoints. Siren's Landing for example uses temples to port between them, Drizzlewood Coast does the same with the different zones of the map and the waystations.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If there are waypoints I hope they're set up like in Dragonfall and not just instantly available with no lore explanation.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 16k hours, 28k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Auramancer(PvE) & Terakura/Healbreaker(WvW) aka Henge of Denravi Silver Invader [SUKI]
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  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2020

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

    I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Even with mounts and other movement options there has to be at least 1 waypoint (or something which serves the same purpose) in each map for when players die, otherwise there's no way to revive yourself. Even in this game it's not always practical to wait for someone else to come along and do it, there's some environmental effects for example which continue to do damage after you've died and can out-damage other players reviving you.

    But I agree it doesn't have to be waypoints. GW1 had shrines which served the same purpose, and those were brought back for Siren's Landing so Cantha could have those. Or they could have some other form of teleportation which serves the same purpose as waypoints.

    Personally I like having several waypoints on each map, when I need to get to a specific location quickly (like when an event is starting). Maybe not as many as basegame maps, but slightly more than PoF. I don't feel pressured to use them when I don't want to, if I'm not in a hurry I'll usually pick the closest waypoint to where I am, or the one at the map entrance and then go overland from there. (If I'm really not in a hurry and it's not too far I might not use a waypoint at all.) But I like having the option for when I want it.

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    Being that we will be going to a Zenophobic part of the world (lore wise, please dont take it personally), will we see little to no Asuran tech in the new maps, encouraging players to travel to locations on the maps with other players, who may help them get back up if they become downed.

    Personally Id love to see EoD with very few waypoints due to the standing lore 'Cantha expelled all nonhumans and closed its borders long ago. There is currently no diplomatic contact with Cantha.' If waypoints are placed in, they must look like they were bought their by airship.

    We don't actually know what Cantha is like now. We haven't had any contact with Cantha for about 200 years, since Zhaitain and the other Elder Dragons woke up and it became too dangerous to go there. Tyria has changed a lot in 200 years, so Cantha might have as well. We also don't know the circumstances of our characters going down there. It will certainly involve asura going, will probably involve the Pact and whatever happens might justify bringing waypoints with us and spreading them around the maps.

    There's lots of ways they could do it, but whatever it is I hope it's addressed in the dialogue. Not necessarily as part of the story but ambient conversations would be good. Canthans commenting on waypoints if we bring ours with us, asura commenting on the Canthan system if they have their own, something like that. Or a mix of both.

    @Zephire.8049 said:
    Instead of waypoints, they may utilize shrines (Siren's Landing being an example of a map with one WP but there being 4 other shrines to teleport to).

    That said, Asura weren't present in Elona either but we still got Waypoints and Dragonfall showed us that waypoints are mobile, so while Cantha may not have the tech currently, as soon as we show up they gain access to it because it's ready to go and can be placed where needed. Tie it to story progression and you have lore reasons for why there are WPs.

    I'm pretty sure at least some of the waypoints in Orr are portable ones and during the escort events you see them being moved into position. The map icons don't move, but they only become uncontested when the waypoint object is in position and activated. There's also asura with the Pact who talk about setting up waypoints as they move throuh Orr.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"

  • no waypoints, but shrines. calling it now.

    Plebs be Plebs

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My experience with recent LS maps tell me, that less waypoints do not "encourage players to travel to locations on the maps with other players, who may help them get back up if they become downed". Quite the opposite - they even more strongly enforce the "every player for themself" attitude. I do not personally care about the narrative behind the "resurrection/trawel points", or what form would they take, but i sure hope they will be more common in the new expansion.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jilora.9524 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

    I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

    I like how you cut stuff off. The pretend game... we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that? Why would you want to be doing an event die and now have 2 minutes of travel from the beginning of the map. Maybe it could be like other time sucks like WoW when you had to take a wyvern and stare at the screen for 5 mins traveling or ff11 where you had to take a tele ride a choco and walk thru a map to get somewhere. Like I said putting one wp and a long travel will just force 90 percent of players to lay there dead for the entire event if they die. That's fun too

    Many players do this now, even with nearby waypoints. Frozen Maw is but one example.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Way points are not here cuz they are logical. They are here for player convince. I really despcise maps that have less than 6-7 way points. It is such a pain to get to a point. Even with mounts, it still far easier if there is a way point at or close to the location. I wish we stick to the core Tyria design.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2020

    @Jilora.9524 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

    I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

    we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that?

    Because the open world is to easy and there is no sense of danger or sense of punishment for messing up. I would like it to feel dangerous/punishing and keep me on my toes.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I kinda expect them to not let us use our current mounts. Who knows what kinda of disease they have.. :P

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

    I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

    we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that?

    Because the open world is to easy and there is no sense of danger or sense of punishment for messing up. I would like it to feel dangerous/punishing and keep me on my toes.

    Sure man there are games like that. Full loot pvp type games. I just don't see how no wp in gw2 when I'm fighting A WB or doing an event is even something worth punishing in a pve environment. Might as well not allow rezzing to force us to WP too.
    Maybe you thinking WvW or something. Of course if you do play teef w all that mobility then yeah I can see how punish other classes when you can cross the map in 1/3 the time would be your opinion too. Or how teefs run and reset so their pixels don't die in a game that doesn't punish death but hey maybe you don't play teef.
    Any game we play is a time suck but the worst games are games that magnify the time suck with things like Darkfall full loot pvp type where you could spend 15 minutes going across half the map to then get jumped by 3 dudes who kill you take all your stuff and you go back to where you started. For some reason those games have the smallest population too. I've played them and it does add that sense of danger and it's cool but it tends to end with gankers only having other gankers left to gank and gankers are the ones who can't deal with being ganked the most so those games die fast.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2020

    I actually hope Arenanet returns to their pre-HoT abundance of waypoints in EoD.
    Or, if not waypoints, they should at least give us plenty of shrines, like the ones in Siren's landing but not nearly as sparse.

    In PoF, they were far too stingy with them.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There will probably be little waypoints not because of lore reasons but because the game designers seems to have forgotten that waypoints function both as fast travel and as check/savepoints. Mounts cover the fast travel aspect but not the checkpoint function.

    Turning waypoints into actual in world objects instead of leaving them as purely game mechanics was a mistake in game design. Now every WP needs an explanation for its existence.

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

    I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

    we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that?

    Because the open world is to easy and there is no sense of danger or sense of punishment for messing up. I would like it to feel dangerous/punishing and keep me on my toes.

    Simply decreasing WPs is a massive failure towards that goal. People will just skip most of the mobs. Now the only thing you have actually accomplished is force people to spend more time doing the things they don't want just to get to the things they do want. It's an easy way to stretch content but that is about it.

    In specific situations not having a WP nearby can be more punishing but that is exactly why some WPs become unavailable during those events.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Now the only thing you have actually accomplished is force people to spend more time doing the things they don't want just to get to the things they do want.

    Exactly, as I said players need to be punished, doing something they do not want to do achieves this.

  • Go ahead and slap down a ton of waypoints. I'll continue to not use them except to move between land masses should no land route between Tyrie or Elona to Cantha exist. Still miffed I have to TP to Elona...
    I'm also not interested in punishing players with travel time. Death itself is enough of a punishment. I don't get this need to further hurt someone's play experience because they failed. It's not a competition.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Timbersword.9014 said:
    Go ahead and slap down a ton of waypoints. I'll continue to not use them except to move between land masses should no land route between Tyrie or Elona to Cantha exist. Still miffed I have to TP to Elona...
    I'm also not interested in punishing players with travel time. Death itself is enough of a punishment. I don't get this need to further hurt someone's play experience because they failed. It's not a competition.

    You dont have to you can use the airship in lions arch or use spearmarshals plea if you done the griffon quest.

  • Ogwom.7940Ogwom.7940 Member ✭✭✭

    In GW1's Eye of the North, there were asura gates underneath Kamadan and Kaineng Centre.
    I wouldn't be surprised if we saw asura in Cantha. Perhaps some asura from one of the underground cities made it to Cantha sometime around the death of the Great Destroyer?
    There are also the Dredge Tunnels underground too, but I think that would be less likely for asura to travel through.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Now the only thing you have actually accomplished is force people to spend more time doing the things they don't want just to get to the things they do want.

    Exactly, as I said players need to be punished, doing something they do not want to do achieves this.

    There is punishment and there is annoyance.

    Me dying in Path of Exile and losing all the exp I gained in a week is punishing.

    Me dying in GW2 and having to spend extra long time to get back due to kitten WPs placement is an annoyance. If it was actually meant to be punishing then it needs to do something more meaningful.

    Then there is the fact that waypoints are used a lot more often for other things besides ressing. Now you are punishing people for simply trying to play the game.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    If it was actually meant to be punishing then it needs to do something more meaningful.

    I would be happy if they had some more meaningful way of punishing death.

  • mikansei.5742mikansei.5742 Member ✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    If it was actually meant to be punishing then it needs to do something more meaningful.

    I would be happy if they had some more meaningful way of punishing death.

    One of the reasons I enjoy GW2 as much as I do is because dying isn't punitive. Coming from WoW, I love that dying in GW2 just feels like an "oops" instead of a failure with a 1000G repair bill.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Now the only thing you have actually accomplished is force people to spend more time doing the things they don't want just to get to the things they do want.

    Exactly, as I said players need to be punished, doing something they do not want to do achieves this.

    i say we hire some crackheads to burn their houses. that'll teach them to try and play properly. give them a workover with a baseball bat too.
    effin losers, how DARE they....

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thought about this a bit myself too.

    Mounts being a thing has already lead to reduced waypoints being added to new content so I expect something similar for Cantha.

    Maybe we won't get Waypoints.. maybe there will be something else that from a lore perspective is different but mechanically will function the same.
    In Siren's Landing we had Shrines that you could teleport to just like waypoints (minus the fee) but you couldn't use them unless you were on that specific map.
    Anet could also maybe do a throwback to Gw1 and have certain outpost locations serve as fast travel points but have it so that we don't teleport to them but travel to those locations offscreen.. mechanically the same but lorewise, different.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    I hope they go back to more waypoints. The original maps had pretty a good amount, but the 2 expansions have not had enough waypoints. They are a huge convenience for players.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:

    @AgentMoore.9453 said:
    Interesting point. By the third expansion, they may expect most players to have mounts to make up for reduced WPs, but I suspect they'll have to include them in some form for those who don't. Rather than Asuratech, you might instead see magical teleporters a bit like the god shrines in Siren's Landing (in addition to ley gliding and other mobility options).

    HoT gave us gliding and mushrooms, PoF gave us mounts, Drizzlewood gave us parachute dropping. What EoD gives us in terms of movement remains to be seen, but it's gonna be present in some form, guaranteed.

    Why on earth would people skip Stories? If you dont have a mount by the time you hit EoD thats the players fault, skipping story is bad, its not a surprise why some new players are clueless on what the story is all about, since they all went to PoF first before HoT.

    The story and it's presentation in this game rarely moves in quality beyond "above average". It is frequently uninspired, derivative and told in an unengaging manner. There's zero challenge and as such it becomes an exponentially worse experience when done with other people. It constantly jumps the shark with it's narrative beats and more often that not does a tremendous disservice to the lore and worldbuilding around it.
    There are dozens of perfectly valid reasons why players would want to skip the story.
    Its frequently just not fun.
    You can get as judgey as you like calling players who feel this way "clueless" but it doesnt make them wrong.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Why should games even punish players?
    Once upon a time, they were meant to fill leisure time and help people relax.
    They ought not to add another layer of stress and frustration on top of what one's job already does.

    Once upon a time? Like actually losing progress on your toon in Everquest? Or the system in City of Heroes which penalized your future XP gain rate for a limited time? or World of Warcraft's extreme time sink of travel to and from your corpse?
    Maybe you are thinking about "the good old days" of GW1 when your entire instance reset when your entire party died.
    This game's zero sum penalty for death is not some wistful tribute to the simpler days of yore....
    it's a near unique pandering cop out that ultimately doesnt do the game any favors.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    Once upon a time? Like actually losing progress on your toon in Everquest?

    There's a reason why these old games had lower populations, you know.
    But yeah, the original MUDs/MMORPGs were not leisure games. They aimed mostly at a narrow niche of players we would consider today as ultra-hardcore.

    World of Warcraft's extreme time sink of travel to and from your corpse?

    At the time WoW was introduced, that was actually considered to be an improvement to what was happening before. While it is now often thought out as a hardcore game, and a lot of its success is nowadays attached to it, the real truth is the exact opposite. The success of WoW is partly because it was the first MMORPG aimed at a more casual audience. Well, more casual compared to its predecessors anyway.
    Because, it turned out, that yes, most players did prefer leisure to challenge.

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    This game's zero sum penalty for death is not some wistful tribute to the simpler days of yore....

    True. The "simpler days of yore" aimed at a completely different (and much, much smaller) playerbase. Any attempt to return to it would probably kill most current games outright.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Turning waypoints into actual in world objects instead of leaving them as purely game mechanics was a mistake in game design. Now every WP needs an explanation for > its existence.

    This. They absolutely should have remained a mechanic that was ignored by lore. When you allow yourself to think to much about it waypoints break more than a few points of lore, and in one or two cases the Lore permanently breaks a waypoint (see the Fort Concordia waypoint, which appears on the map but hasn't function in at least five years, probably more).

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @Timbersword.9014 said:
    Go ahead and slap down a ton of waypoints. I'll continue to not use them except to move between land masses should no land route between Tyrie or Elona to Cantha exist. Still miffed I have to TP to Elona...
    I'm also not interested in punishing players with travel time. Death itself is enough of a punishment. I don't get this need to further hurt someone's play experience because they failed. It's not a competition.

    You dont have to you can use the airship in lions arch or use spearmarshals plea if you done the griffon quest.

    Eh... the point is I want to walk to Elona, not fast travel. Lore wise, there IS a route, Ebonhold has just blocked it off because of the brand.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    @Timbersword.9014 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Timbersword.9014 said:
    Go ahead and slap down a ton of waypoints. I'll continue to not use them except to move between land masses should no land route between Tyrie or Elona to Cantha exist. Still miffed I have to TP to Elona...
    I'm also not interested in punishing players with travel time. Death itself is enough of a punishment. I don't get this need to further hurt someone's play experience because they failed. It's not a competition.

    You dont have to you can use the airship in lions arch or use spearmarshals plea if you done the griffon quest.

    Eh... the point is I want to walk to Elona, not fast travel. Lore wise, there IS a route, Ebonhold has just blocked it off because of the brand.

    I honestly cant understand why they never opened that route up... or why the story didn't start there.

  • Nilkemia.8507Nilkemia.8507 Member ✭✭✭

    No. No more bad ideas, please.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There needs to be some form of fast travel. Players should not have to spend have their playtime just getting to where they are looking to game for that night.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/Civ6/CU/AoC/NW

  • Kichwas.7152Kichwas.7152 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    We arrive in Cantha and some Asura coming with us open an Embassy - first waypoint.

    We get to a point in the story - about 20 minutes of gameplay in, similar to where Path of Fire gave the raptor - and they link their waypoint to a local network built by the Canthans - second waypoint, and as we travel Canthan waypoints we now pass open up to us.

    We get a side story about some Asuran who's insulted that humans were able to independently replicate this technology without even seeing their version first, and who insists the human version must be flawed and won't work right - ending when he uses a waypoint and... is not heard from again.

    3 chapters into the post expansion Living Story - we find that Asura somewhere on the top of a mountain and figure out whatever must have happened...

    It could then be a recurring expansion theme that Asurans are 'shocked' humans could do 'all the things they have done here' and keep insisting they must have a pack of their own Asurans locked away in a lab somewhere... which... we never find... because it doesn't exist... and human Canthans repeatedly stating things like "clearly humanity unbothered by you lesser non-humans can achieve great things, the Emperor should extend his gracious hand to the rest of Tyria and remove you shell-less kappas from there as well..."

    • However... "somewhere" in northern Cantha, deep under the ruins of some ancient part of Keaning... will be a mini-dungeon. In this dungeon is a lab that until some recent event broke the wall sat empty for thousands of years... and in that lab are the ruins of some ancient waypoint like device, and an image on a metal plate of a map... that looks suspiciously like Earth...

    Just say no to butt-flaps. | 光復香港 時代革命

  • @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    There needs to be some form of fast travel. Players should not have to spend have their playtime just getting to where they are looking to game for that night.

    You, and many others may want fast travel but I don't. Been in this franchise for 15 years, and some of us can see how waypoints dilute the experience of actually meeting other people and having meaningful expierences.

    You know what they call games with waypoints like this? A Theme park MMO. Going from one carnival ride to the next.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    There needs to be some form of fast travel. Players should not have to spend have their playtime just getting to where they are looking to game for that night.

    You, and many others may want fast travel but I don't. Been in this franchise for 15 years, and some of us can see how waypoints dilute the experience of actually meeting other people and having meaningful expierences.

    You know what they call games with waypoints like this? A Theme park MMO. Going from one carnival ride to the next.

    The option ought to be available, though. If a player wants to zip across the map using waypoints or mounts, then they should have that option. If a player prefers to not use those items, then that player should have that option. Let's not get back on the topic of forcing interactions again.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    The option ought to be available, though. If a player wants to zip across the map using waypoints or mounts, then they should have that option. If a player prefers to not use those items, then that player should have that option. Let's not get back on the topic of forcing interactions again.

    Except, giving an option that is the most optimal way to do something, is like giving a fisherman the option to learn a strategy to catch 20 fish a day, or the option to learn a strategy to catch a thousand fish a day. Clearly it's less optimal to play a game without waypoints, so people will chose the most optimal path if given the option because it's optimal, even logical way to play a game...

    But just because something is logical and optimal, does not mean it's not bad and unhealthy for the game...Think about how metagames are bad for the community...having the most optimal choices of builds to play the game kills off all the other off-meta builds even if they are even remotely less optimal...would you say that's healthy? Or do you think that elitist raiding mentality is healthy...Encouraging the use of waypoints is like supporting that mentality.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    There needs to be some form of fast travel. Players should not have to spend have their playtime just getting to where they are looking to game for that night.

    You, and many others may want fast travel but I don't. Been in this franchise for 15 years, and some of us can see how waypoints dilute the experience of actually meeting other people and having meaningful expierences.

    You know what they call games with waypoints like this? A Theme park MMO. Going from one carnival ride to the next.

    Yeah , I doubt us going across the map on my raptor to get to an event will result in me talking to others on their raptors.
    Just for fun take mounts out of the equation and go walk thru lake doric or bloodstone fen and the aggro radius of white mantle or for even more great gaming exp go to pof and cut thru jacaranda or ibogas. Just walk thru them and see how fun this would make the game constanly aggroes and pulled and knocked down on the way to events.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    The option ought to be available, though. If a player wants to zip across the map using waypoints or mounts, then they should have that option. If a player prefers to not use those items, then that player should have that option. Let's not get back on the topic of forcing interactions again.

    Except, giving an option that is the most optimal way to do something, is like giving a fisherman the option to learn a strategy to catch 20 fish a day, or the option to learn a strategy to catch a thousand fish a day.

    What about the option for someone who pays the fisherman to catch the fish?

    Clearly it's less optimal to play a game without waypoints, so people will chose the most optimal path if given the option because it's optimal, even logical way to play a game...

    Clearly? There aren't MMOs out there without waypoints or similar methods for rapid travel? You, yourself, probably wouldn't use waypoints based on your previous thread. Does that mean that you would actively choose a less optimal path?

    But just because something is logical and optimal, does not mean it's not bad and unhealthy for the game...Think about how metagames are bad for the community...having the most optimal choices of builds to play the game kills off all the other off-meta builds even if they are even remotely less optimal...would you say that's healthy?

    I'm not sure what it is you're getting at here. Meta does not equal unhealthy. I've been playing GW2 for over 7 years (and GW1 for a few before) and have never used a meta build. I enjoy playing just fine. Other players who choose to follow meta builds or not do not impact my playing GW2 at all.

    Or do you think that elitist raiding mentality is healthy...Encouraging the use of waypoints is like supporting that mentality.

    Oh, so now I see what you're trying to get at. This is not even something that can be remotely compared.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    One option could be made that waypoints are installed as the story gets progressed, so you see them being installed, but are only unlocked after each part of the story is done. This would bring the question of, should this be account bound or character? I can see too many complaints about how unfriendly it would be to alts if you had to do the story on all, so making them only unlock once you have done the story would be better. At least then we have some lore as to how the hell they got there.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    One option could be made that waypoints are installed as the story gets progressed, so you see them being installed, but are only unlocked after each part of the story is done. This would bring the question of, should this be account bound or character? I can see too many complaints about how unfriendly it would be to alts if you had to do the story on all, so making them only unlock once you have done the story would be better. At least then we have some lore as to how the hell they got there.

    I would prefer them to NOT be locked behind story content. There are players who do not want to play out the entire story.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    One option could be made that waypoints are installed as the story gets progressed, so you see them being installed, but are only unlocked after each part of the story is done. This would bring the question of, should this be account bound or character? I can see too many complaints about how unfriendly it would be to alts if you had to do the story on all, so making them only unlock once you have done the story would be better. At least then we have some lore as to how the hell they got there.

    I would prefer them to NOT be locked behind story content. There are players who do not want to play out the entire story.

    But then its jarring lore wise. Going to a map and WHAM! waypoints already there.
    For the first time you go there, they should expand the waypoints as the story expands, but at least show with a cutscene just once of one being installed, so the story ties together.

    It builds apon the development, story wise and lore wise. Currently I don't believe the asura make them, since they are just there. I need to see it.

    Also with the direction GW2 is going, they focus more on the story than the do the rest of the content. I think out of all the options , unlocking and visibly seeing them by doing the story is the best way about it to create a sense of immersion, which currently this game lacks due to everything just... being there with no reason, why or how.