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Will there be little to no waypoints in EoD?


Smoosh.2718

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Being that we will be going to a Zenophobic part of the world (lore wise, please dont take it personally), will we see little to no Asuran tech in the new maps, encouraging players to travel to locations on the maps with other players, who may help them get back up if they become downed.

Personally Id love to see EoD with very few waypoints due to the standing lore 'Cantha expelled all nonhumans and closed its borders long ago. There is currently no diplomatic contact with Cantha.' If waypoints are placed in, they must look like they were bought their by airship.

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Interesting point. By the third expansion, they may expect most players to have mounts to make up for reduced WPs, but I suspect they'll have to include them in some form for those who don't. Rather than Asuratech, you might instead see magical teleporters a bit like the god shrines in Siren's Landing (in addition to ley gliding and other mobility options).

HoT gave us gliding and mushrooms, PoF gave us mounts, Drizzlewood gave us parachute dropping. What EoD gives us in terms of movement remains to be seen, but it's gonna be present in some form, guaranteed.

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I doubt it, Waypoints are a staple and a good feature to have if you've got a lot going on on larger maps.We don't know how we're going to arrive to Cantha just yet or what it's like their currently, They've been in contact with the Zephyrites according to the wiki so maybe they could have given them waypoints?

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@AgentMoore.9453 said:Interesting point. By the third expansion, they may expect most players to have mounts to make up for reduced WPs, but I suspect they'll have to include them in some form for those who don't. Rather than Asuratech, you might instead see magical teleporters a bit like the god shrines in Siren's Landing (in addition to ley gliding and other mobility options).

HoT gave us gliding and mushrooms, PoF gave us mounts, Drizzlewood gave us parachute dropping. What EoD gives us in terms of movement remains to be seen, but it's gonna be present in some form, guaranteed.

Why on earth would people skip Stories? If you dont have a mount by the time you hit EoD thats the players fault, skipping story is bad, its not a surprise why some new players are clueless on what the story is all about, since they all went to PoF first before HoT.

I'd like to have an experience where death in the game means something, and no waypoints does mean something. Dying where you cant get back to where you were quickly will give players a fear of actually dying rather than just 'lul i died, anyway'. Would bring a sense of exploration and travel back in.

As for something new, Tbh I think they have covered movement, If they surprise us with 2 elite specs at once I'd be happy with that.

But knowing the way it may go, we may see a new race since that was on the demand for years, so that will be the new thing along side the elite spec.

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Instead of waypoints, they may utilize shrines (Siren's Landing being an example of a map with one WP but there being 4 other shrines to teleport to).

That said, Asura weren't present in Elona either but we still got Waypoints and Dragonfall showed us that waypoints are mobile, so while Cantha may not have the tech currently, as soon as we show up they gain access to it because it's ready to go and can be placed where needed. Tie it to story progression and you have lore reasons for why there are WPs.

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I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game. No one WP now at things like Matriarch in VB with the WP right below and a choppa up. WP's far away will surely affect the players who die as they have no choice but to lay there now for 80 percent of the event.

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@Smoosh.2718 said:Why on earth would people skip Stories? If you dont have a mount by the time you hit EoD thats the players fault, skipping story is bad, its not a surprise why some new players are clueless on what the story is all about, since they all went to PoF first before HoT.

Some people don't care about the lore. Not that crazy of a concept to grasp.

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Even with mounts and other movement options there has to be at least 1 waypoint (or something which serves the same purpose) in each map for when players die, otherwise there's no way to revive yourself. Even in this game it's not always practical to wait for someone else to come along and do it, there's some environmental effects for example which continue to do damage after you've died and can out-damage other players reviving you.

But I agree it doesn't have to be waypoints. GW1 had shrines which served the same purpose, and those were brought back for Siren's Landing so Cantha could have those. Or they could have some other form of teleportation which serves the same purpose as waypoints.

Personally I like having several waypoints on each map, when I need to get to a specific location quickly (like when an event is starting). Maybe not as many as basegame maps, but slightly more than PoF. I don't feel pressured to use them when I don't want to, if I'm not in a hurry I'll usually pick the closest waypoint to where I am, or the one at the map entrance and then go overland from there. (If I'm really not in a hurry and it's not too far I might not use a waypoint at all.) But I like having the option for when I want it.

@Smoosh.2718 said:Being that we will be going to a Zenophobic part of the world (lore wise, please dont take it personally), will we see little to no Asuran tech in the new maps, encouraging players to travel to locations on the maps with other players, who may help them get back up if they become downed.

Personally Id love to see EoD with very few waypoints due to the standing lore 'Cantha expelled all nonhumans and closed its borders long ago. There is currently no diplomatic contact with Cantha.' If waypoints are placed in, they must look like they were bought their by airship.

We don't actually know what Cantha is like now. We haven't had any contact with Cantha for about 200 years, since Zhaitain and the other Elder Dragons woke up and it became too dangerous to go there. Tyria has changed a lot in 200 years, so Cantha might have as well. We also don't know the circumstances of our characters going down there. It will certainly involve asura going, will probably involve the Pact and whatever happens might justify bringing waypoints with us and spreading them around the maps.

There's lots of ways they could do it, but whatever it is I hope it's addressed in the dialogue. Not necessarily as part of the story but ambient conversations would be good. Canthans commenting on waypoints if we bring ours with us, asura commenting on the Canthan system if they have their own, something like that. Or a mix of both.

@Zephire.8049 said:Instead of waypoints, they may utilize shrines (Siren's Landing being an example of a map with one WP but there being 4 other shrines to teleport to).

That said, Asura weren't present in Elona either but we still got Waypoints and Dragonfall showed us that waypoints are mobile, so while Cantha may not have the tech currently, as soon as we show up they gain access to it because it's ready to go and can be placed where needed. Tie it to story progression and you have lore reasons for why there are WPs.

I'm pretty sure at least some of the waypoints in Orr are portable ones and during the escort events you see them being moved into position. The map icons don't move, but they only become uncontested when the waypoint object is in position and activated. There's also asura with the Pact who talk about setting up waypoints as they move throuh Orr.

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My experience with recent LS maps tell me, that less waypoints do not "encourage players to travel to locations on the maps with other players, who may help them get back up if they become downed". Quite the opposite - they even more strongly enforce the "every player for themself" attitude. I do not personally care about the narrative behind the "resurrection/trawel points", or what form would they take, but i sure hope they will be more common in the new expansion.

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

I like how you cut stuff off. The pretend game... we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that? Why would you want to be doing an event die and now have 2 minutes of travel from the beginning of the map. Maybe it could be like other time sucks like WoW when you had to take a wyvern and stare at the screen for 5 mins traveling or ff11 where you had to take a tele ride a choco and walk thru a map to get somewhere. Like I said putting one wp and a long travel will just force 90 percent of players to lay there dead for the entire event if they die. That's fun too

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@Jilora.9524 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

I like how you cut stuff off. The pretend game... we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that? Why would you want to be doing an event die and now have 2 minutes of travel from the beginning of the map. Maybe it could be like other time sucks like WoW when you had to take a wyvern and stare at the screen for 5 mins traveling or ff11 where you had to take a tele ride a choco and walk thru a map to get somewhere. Like I said putting one wp and a long travel will just force 90 percent of players to lay there dead for the entire event if they die. That's fun too

Many players do this now, even with nearby waypoints. Frozen Maw is but one example.

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Way points are not here cuz they are logical. They are here for player convince. I really despcise maps that have less than 6-7 way points. It is such a pain to get to a point. Even with mounts, it still far easier if there is a way point at or close to the location. I wish we stick to the core Tyria design.

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@Jilora.9524 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that?

Because the open world is to easy and there is no sense of danger or sense of punishment for messing up. I would like it to feel dangerous/punishing and keep me on my toes.

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that?

Because the open world is to easy and there is no sense of danger or sense of punishment for messing up. I would like it to feel dangerous/punishing and keep me on my toes.

Sure man there are games like that. Full loot pvp type games. I just don't see how no wp in gw2 when I'm fighting A WB or doing an event is even something worth punishing in a pve environment. Might as well not allow rezzing to force us to WP too.Maybe you thinking WvW or something. Of course if you do play teef w all that mobility then yeah I can see how punish other classes when you can cross the map in 1/3 the time would be your opinion too. Or how teefs run and reset so their pixels don't die in a game that doesn't punish death but hey maybe you don't play teef.Any game we play is a time suck but the worst games are games that magnify the time suck with things like Darkfall full loot pvp type where you could spend 15 minutes going across half the map to then get jumped by 3 dudes who kill you take all your stuff and you go back to where you started. For some reason those games have the smallest population too. I've played them and it does add that sense of danger and it's cool but it tends to end with gankers only having other gankers left to gank and gankers are the ones who can't deal with being ganked the most so those games die fast.

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There will probably be little waypoints not because of lore reasons but because the game designers seems to have forgotten that waypoints function both as fast travel and as check/savepoints. Mounts cover the fast travel aspect but not the checkpoint function.

Turning waypoints into actual in world objects instead of leaving them as purely game mechanics was a mistake in game design. Now every WP needs an explanation for its existence.

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:I hope not because it's always fun to barely miss an event because of seconds lets make players miss many more events or don't bother going because some think death should matter in a pretend game.

I do think death should matter, just as getting to an event matters to you in a pretend game...

we all play that you somehow want to make more difficult to play or return to play because they died because death should matter and why is that?

Because the open world is to easy and there is no sense of danger or sense of punishment for messing up. I would like it to feel dangerous/punishing and keep me on my toes.

Simply decreasing WPs is a massive failure towards that goal. People will just skip most of the mobs. Now the only thing you have actually accomplished is force people to spend more time doing the things they don't want just to get to the things they do want. It's an easy way to stretch content but that is about it.

In specific situations not having a WP nearby can be more punishing but that is exactly why some WPs become unavailable during those events.

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Go ahead and slap down a ton of waypoints. I'll continue to not use them except to move between land masses should no land route between Tyrie or Elona to Cantha exist. Still miffed I have to TP to Elona...I'm also not interested in punishing players with travel time. Death itself is enough of a punishment. I don't get this need to further hurt someone's play experience because they failed. It's not a competition.

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@"Khisanth.2948" said:Now the only thing you have actually accomplished is force people to spend more time doing the things they don't want just to get to the things they do want.

Exactly, as I said players need to be punished, doing something they do not want to do achieves this.All that results in is players that
stop doing stuff
.

This kind of "punishment" does not make things more dangerous. It makes them more annoying and less fun.

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