Will there be little to no waypoints in EoD? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Will there be little to no waypoints in EoD?

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  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    The option ought to be available, though. If a player wants to zip across the map using waypoints or mounts, then they should have that option. If a player prefers to not use those items, then that player should have that option. Let's not get back on the topic of forcing interactions again.

    Except, giving an option that is the most optimal way to do something, is like giving a fisherman the option to learn a strategy to catch 20 fish a day, or the option to learn a strategy to catch a thousand fish a day. Clearly it's less optimal to play a game without waypoints, so people will chose the most optimal path if given the option because it's optimal, even logical way to play a game...

    But just because something is logical and optimal, does not mean it's not bad and unhealthy for the game...Think about how metagames are bad for the community...having the most optimal choices of builds to play the game kills off all the other off-meta builds even if they are even remotely less optimal...would you say that's healthy? Or do you think that elitist raiding mentality is healthy...Encouraging the use of waypoints is like supporting that mentality.

    The reason older games did not have more fast travel wasn't about anything to do with health of a game, it was about subscriptions. It kept the player in game longer because they wasted all that time getting to where they needed to be. It's an outdated concept and has no use here. As far as meta and raiders, it's up to each player to decide what they are going to do, don't care about either and they aren't impacting my gameplay. But if they are yours, still shouldn't impact if I choose to maximize my travel time and get to the next event in game. It's like the concept about having crafting be filled with so much AFK. It's a false premise to make population appear larger by having people just stand still in game for extended periods while they wait for a bar to cross a screen. It's not fun and a waste of time that could be more active game play. I am not going to chat with people while waiting for crafting, I am going to tab out of game and do something in another game/screen since my toon can't leave that spot. No waypoints were a success for the game and will disagree there that they aren't. It's also why you see more games employing the concept versus getting rid of it.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/Civ6/CU/AoC/NW

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Clearly? There aren't MMOs out there without waypoints or similar methods for rapid travel? You, yourself, probably wouldn't use waypoints based on your previous thread. Does that mean that you would actively choose a less optimal path?

    Me playing this game without choosing to use waypoints means I am purposefully playing the game in the least optimal way...which isn't a logical way to play a game with such an option. Every rational agent would do the same. If waypoints are there, they will be used because they are optimal.

    I'm not sure what it is you're getting at here. Meta does not equal unhealthy. I've been playing GW2 for over 7 years (and GW1 for a few before) and have never used a meta build. I enjoy playing just fine. Other players who choose to follow meta builds or not do not impact my playing GW2 at all.

    Then you are choosing to catch 20 fish a day rather than a thousand fish a day, which is illogical. The point is that because waypoints are there existing and providing optimal strategy, logical/rational people will use them, and they will use them more often than not because it's optimal strategy. Maybe a better analogy...It's like giving a starving prisoner the choice to eat a single Hershey's kiss or a Buffet full of fresh food and drink...Why would said prisoner choose to starve when given the option.

    Anyway, I'm not going to respond any further. I don't like being reported and banned over completely benign posts because folks can't deal with someone else's differing opinion.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    so let's ignore the fact that asura were never supposed to be in elona (and only the inquests are there in secret) but we still have the same thing, and let's ignore the part that WP are in HoT without a single explanation.
    so yes, put as many waypoints in EoD as needed, the new maps are frustrating at best with their "one WP per area" rule.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • Smoosh.2718Smoosh.2718 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    so let's ignore the fact that asura were never supposed to be in elona (and only the inquests are there in secret) but we still have the same thing, and let's ignore the part that WP are in HoT without a single explanation.
    so yes, put as many waypoints in EoD as needed, the new maps are frustrating at best with their "one WP per area" rule.

    At least with HoT there was some logic to it, Asura were in that area. Rata Novis.

    Some of the later maps had little explanation to how the waypoints got there, BUT! they were all in the region of Kryta, where all the races are welcome, Cantha being Human exclusive for many years will 100% need an explanation or story to how the waypoints got installed, or maybe even a new way to teleport (not a cop out of shrines please).

    Having fewer Waypoints however could be a huge benefit, how many things have you missed in the game because you teleport everywhere? or things you missed because you used a mount everywhere?

    If you move fast, you will be the last to see somethings.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:

    It builds apon the development, story wise and lore wise. Currently I don't believe the asura make them, since they are just there. I need to see it.

    I thought that the asura were building portals as far back as GW1?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    Also with the direction GW2 is going, they focus more on the story than the do the rest of the content. I think out of all the options , unlocking and visibly seeing them by doing the story is the best way about it to create a sense of immersion, which currently this game lacks due to everything just... being there with no reason, why or how.

    Certainly your perspective and opinion. I know players who don't really concern themselves with lore and immersion and just want to play the game.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    Having fewer Waypoints however could be a huge benefit, how many things have you missed in the game because you teleport everywhere? or things you missed because you used a mount everywhere?

    If you move fast, you will be the last to see somethings.

    Again, this is an option. If a player is concerned about missing things because he/she is using mounts or waypoints, then they can simply choose not to use mounts or waypoints. There is no need to penalize other player who choose to use them.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    Having fewer Waypoints however could be a huge benefit,

    There is no benefit to it in any way.
    Those who want to get around fast are forced into a snail pace and that's it.

    how many things have you missed in the game because you teleport everywhere?

    Those who want to get around fast don't care if they miss things.
    Those who want to view the environment time and time again already have that option by simply not using all the waypoints, even when there are plenty of them around.

    The single optimal solution is to add ample amounts of waypoints and let the player choose whether they want to use them or not.
    There is no need to force other players to slow down against their wishes.

  • WorldofBay.8160WorldofBay.8160 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    Having fewer Waypoints however could be a huge benefit, how many things have you missed in the game because you teleport everywhere? or things you missed because you used a mount everywhere?

    If you move fast, you will be the last to see somethings.

    i have missed a ton of things in elona because i needed the time to travel. in core i could just stand there and look and listen and then port away. i still do it.

    also in core it is fun to explore every part of the map because you can skip all the parts you already know. in elona you can't. that repetition makes exploration (which is the exact opposite of repetition) pretty ridiculous.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2020

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    Having fewer Waypoints however could be a huge benefit, how many things have you missed in the game because you teleport everywhere? or things you missed because you used a mount everywhere?

    None and none ... because I had to get there to unlock the WP's in the first place. Missing things isn't a function of using mounts ... it's a function of not paying attention ... something MORE likely to happen if you are bored because you are spending most your time just running around everywhere. or a function of not caring. So basically, forcing people to care about things they don't want to care about ... feels bad. The fact is that WP's gives players choices and not having them forces not caring people to hate the map and not paying attention people to just feel like they are wasting their time.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    There needs to be some form of fast travel. Players should not have to spend have their playtime just getting to where they are looking to game for that night.

    You, and many others may want fast travel but I don't. Been in this franchise for 15 years, and some of us can see how waypoints dilute the experience of actually meeting other people and having meaningful expierences.

    You know what they call games with waypoints like this? A Theme park MMO. Going from one carnival ride to the next.

    No, this is not what theme park mmo is and having waypoints/teleports between the zones available has nothing to do with it.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    Then you are choosing to catch 20 fish a day rather than a thousand fish a day, which is illogical.

    Depends on your goals. There are still people that fish the traditional way, one at a time, with a fishing rod. This is absolutely, completely inefficient - and yet it is also very popular. You don't need to ban nets for that.

    If people will keep using waypoints, it will mean they are not interested in wasting their time on travel. There's no gain in trying to force them to do so. And no, it would not cause an increase in "social interactions", because someone running through the map and avoiding mobs on the way is not going to have time or opportunity to engage in chat conversations. If anything, their social interactions will go down.

    You liking a certain playstyle (especially one that is not very popular) does not mean you should enforce it on everyone else. It will not make anyone more happy. No, not even you - it will not make people interact with you more. But it might cause situations where you can't get to a lot of events on time.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    so let's ignore the fact that asura were never supposed to be in elona (and only the inquests are there in secret) but we still have the same thing, and let's ignore the part that WP are in HoT without a single explanation.
    so yes, put as many waypoints in EoD as needed, the new maps are frustrating at best with their "one WP per area" rule.

    Yes. For the ones who think this game should be "more punishing" then GW2 would not be GW2. To flog a dead horse but using a comparison to WoW, the need to run back from a graveyard, or rez at a graveyard with an enforced death penalty, was horrible. Even running back to my body, I often couldn't get there quick enough to loot - it would be despawned. The fact that such a "punishment" is not implemented in this game is an attraction to players like me, not something that discourages us from playing.

    I can't fathom why people want a game marketed to casual players, which is programmed to promote pro-social behaviour between players, should implement a system where it's everyone for themselves. I can't see players who want downed players to be "punished" would be pro-social enough to help rez downed players.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    so let's ignore the fact that asura were never supposed to be in elona (and only the inquests are there in secret) but we still have the same thing, and let's ignore the part that WP are in HoT without a single explanation.
    so yes, put as many waypoints in EoD as needed, the new maps are frustrating at best with their "one WP per area" rule.

    At least with HoT there was some logic to it, Asura were in that area. Rata Novis.

    Some of the later maps had little explanation to how the waypoints got there, BUT! they were all in the region of Kryta, where all the races are welcome, Cantha being Human exclusive for many years will 100% need an explanation or story to how the waypoints got installed, or maybe even a new way to teleport (not a cop out of shrines please).

    Having fewer Waypoints however could be a huge benefit, how many things have you missed in the game because you teleport everywhere? or things you missed because you used a mount everywhere?

    If you move fast, you will be the last to see somethings.

    firstly, you first need to get to the waypoint to unlock it so if you missed stuff it's all on you.
    secondly, i have bin playing since launch, i had to walk everywhere so i know how frikin annoying it is.

    so no, only having one or two WP's doesn't have a single benefit whatsoever, unless you see annoying players to the bone beneficial.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.