Number of people doing Living World Meta Achievements is Declining — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Living World

Number of people doing Living World Meta Achievements is Declining

Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 15, 2020 in Living World

One of the things I used to typically do every time a new zone came out with the zone meta. It kept me in zones longer. I played them more.

According to GW2 Efficiency, the percentage of people who have completed zone meta achievements are trending down.

Ice Brood Saga

Blood by Blood 4.559%
Whisper in the Dark 9.028%
Shadow in the Ice 2.809%
Steel and Fire 1.326%
No Quarter 1.493%
Jormag Rising 1.293%

I know for me, and I can really only speak for me, I stopped doing zone metas the moment strike missions were required for some of them, and I haven't really gotten back into that mindset. To me, Strike Missions are just content I don't find fun, and have the added stress of either having to find a group or having to endure really bad public groups. This problem doesn't exist as much with meta events, because you're not necessarily interacting with others personally. Most of my guild isn't interested in Strike Missions and I'm not either.

Obviously this is only one person's opinion, which is the only one I can speak too. I guess I"m curious why fewer people are doing meta achievements these days and what would it take to bring them back.

And yeah, I get 4 or 8% of Guild Wars 2 efficiency isn't necessariliy representive of the entire player base, but it is representative of those who have efficiency accounts, so it can show a trend.

<1

Comments

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    One of the things I used to typically do every time a new zone came out with the zone meta. It kept me in zones longer. I played them more.

    According to GW2 Efficiency, the percentage of people who have completed zone meta achievements are trending down.

    Ice Brood Saga

    Blood by Blood 4.559%
    Whisper in the Dark 9.028%
    Shadow in the Ice 2.809%
    Steel and Fire 1.326%
    No Quarter 1.493%
    Jormag Rising 1.293%

    I know for me, and I can really only speak for me, I stopped doing zone metas the moment strike missions were required for some of them, and I haven't really gotten back into that mindset. To me, Strike Missions are just content I don't find fun, and have the added stress of either having to find a group or having to endure really bad public groups. This problem doesn't exist as much with meta events, because you're not necessarily interacting with others personally. Most of my guild isn't interested in Strike Missions and I'm not either.

    Obviously this is only one person's opinion, which is the only one I can speak too. I guess I"m curious why fewer people are doing meta achievements these days and what would it take to bring them back.

    And yeah, I get 4 or 8% of Guild Wars 2 efficiency isn't necessariliy representive of the entire player base, but it is representative of those who have efficiency accounts, so it can show a trend.

    I think it's also worth noting the number of players who finished the first instance of each episode too. This also shows a steep decline as the number of players that start an episode decreases, so will the number of players that will finish the meta achievement. Another equally interesting statistic is the one that tells us how many players finished the story of an episode, because a player that never finished the episode, won't finish the meta either. Let's take a look (Episode/first instance/last instance):

    Bound by Blood: 41.550% / 34.276%
    Whisper in the Dark: 37.125% / 33.848%
    Shadow in the Ice: 37.561% / 29.832%
    Steel and Fire: 27.510% / 26.236%
    No Quarter: 27.911% / 20.824%
    Jormag Rising: 19.455% / 15.964%

    Half the players who started Bound by Blood started Jormag Rising, half the players who finished Bound by Blood finished Jormag Rising.
    Aside from the declining start/end numbers, another factor is that in the last two episodes a lot of players have map achievements, but no story progress, while in almost every other episode most players have at least the first story instance achievement. This can easily be attributed to the lack of voice acting as quite a few players are waiting for voice acting to be added to experience the last two episodes.

    Although it's evident that there is a decline in meta completions, there is also a decline in episode activity as a whole. Some of it can be attributed to the lack of voice acting now how much the addition of Strike Missions in the meta achievements is preventing players from playing the story of an episode is anyone's guess.

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I find it interesting it's trending down. I found it easier to complete the last two metas vs the earlier ones specifically because of metas (and sometimes story). I'd much rather see the metas be things that are "do a lot of moderately challenging things" or "do some things repeatedly over a long period of time". I'm not a fan of when the meta steps involve things like the strikes, overly complicated story steps (kill the crazy thing you can only kill by kiting for an hour in under 30 seconds standing on one leg while eating a hot pocket!). Rather, I should say I don't like it when the meta includes those things and does not include enough alternate steps to complete the meta in a different way.

    I was able to do the last two, but I think Whisper in the Dark and Shadow in the Ice I couldn't complete? I didn't do Steel and Fire either (that was the one in EotN, right?) I think I eventually pulled off Bound by Blood, when I finally found that last balloon, I had a path to finish. I think SitI had all the strike stuff in it, so I didn't get close. I might have found a way to finish WitD, but I'd have to login to see.

    Actually, just went to look at Efficiency to see if I could figure out how to look at it that way , and I did do WitD. I'm noticing I have to go 'fishing' to find the meta. Efficiency shows percentages complete based on 'everything'. I for sure don't do 'everything'. Are your percentages based on 'everything', or just 'completing the Meta' (which I see Efficiency calls the 'Mastery')?

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @notebene.3190 said:
    Actually, just went to look at Efficiency to see if I could figure out how to look at it that way , and I did do WitD. I'm noticing I have to go 'fishing' to find the meta. Efficiency shows percentages complete based on 'everything'. I for sure don't do 'everything'. Are your percentages based on 'everything', or just 'completing the Meta' (which I see Efficiency calls the 'Mastery')?

    Efficiency shows completion of meta, not completion of everything.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:
    The 3 metas with the lowest completion percentages are also the 3 only ones that don't need full completion for the reward. This may be a factor.

    Okay this is a good point I hadn't actually thought of. Thanks for this.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    in my case i kinda dont do bcs the story has no voice acting, after it comes i replay all for the achievements

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    It’s because metas take longer because the achievements are longer.

    I’ve cleared all the strikes and most of the achievements (Pass, Fraenir and Kodan are very easy to find a casual group for in EU), but the drizzlewood achieves and the weapon ones are very long term goals. All other ls metas I had done within 2 weeks, but I’ve completed no icebrood metas due to the size of them

    They clearly changed the metas to be less quick to keep people in maps. I like them this way but to many they are too grindy to invest in

    I also think a lot of players are still catching up and are well behind on what is now a huge amount of content for a new or retuning player.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • I hate the achievements that include a Meta that requires a zerg to complete while the rest of the achievement can be completed solo. Not just in Living world.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There goes the strike mission included in the meta achieves caused the decrease theory but yeah when the main reward is not the last tier less will be forced to complete everything to get it.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Taxi wars to get into an active map combined with “do the meta event 25 times” type achieves just led me to nope right on out. Especially with the seemingly ever increasing duration of the meta events. Drakkar was a long fight. Drizzle wood part 1 is long enough, but drizzle wood 2 and chest farm tacked on after? No way. I flat out don’t have the chunks of time to commit to that, so any of the recent achieves related to the drizzlewood part 2 are simply out. This has has a knock on effect as well - I used to 100% each story chapter, and have since ls2. But now I just don’t care because I know I’ll have chapters incomplete, so why bother.

  • As far as story episodes go, I don't do them till all of them are available. So I've not been to any of the new areas so far.
    I'll also be waiting till all the voice acting is implemented.
    Consequently I've done exactly zero of any of the metas =)

    In the meantime I have two characters progressing through earlier LW and expansion stuff. Plus Fractals, dailies, crafting, etc etc.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    I like the emotes, but I hate farming. 50 times that one strike mission? Nope, I am out. Collecting a gazillion of weapons? Not really exciting to me.

    Some work is fine, some requiring to play the map is nice. But it has become too much for me and my few time I can spare for these things.

    You don't need to complete every achievement so you can skip the strike mission entirely. There are 23 achievements that count for mastery, 5th tier -rewards mastery point- is 22 achievements (so can skip one), but the emote is for 4th tier, which is 19. 4 achievements of your choice are skippable (probably Strike grind, Stormcaller collection, tengu collection.. and another one of your choice). It really is pretty easy to get with a few replays of the meta.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I very rarely complete the meta achievements, and when I do it's usually a few months after the episode comes out. It's not that I don't want to do them, it's just that I always have other things I'm doing as well, so they go into my mental list of priorities and get done when I want the skin/item/emote/whatever or when I feel like finishing it off and don't have anything I'd rather be doing.

    I do the story on my main character as soon as I can (which might be the weekend after release, or later) and often complete the map not long after, but the meta event waits until I actually want something from it. I don't have a problem with any of the achievements involved, it's just there's too much other stuff.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really think about the metas that's it's an equation between time invested and rewards. Tarir gives ton of loot chests and rapidly compared to drizelewood north or south. 30 mins okay, 3h no ways. Even silverwastes doesn't feel heavy. But take kourna as example, too long build up to stay there compared to sandswept/istan where you can almost instantly start looting and having a fight.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Number of people doing Living World Meta Achievements is Declining
    According to GW2 Efficiency, the percentage of people who have completed zone meta achievements are trending down.

    Doing and completed, 2 different things...

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    I like the emotes, but I hate farming. 50 times that one strike mission? Nope, I am out. Collecting a gazillion of weapons? Not really exciting to me.

    Some work is fine, some requiring to play the map is nice. But it has become too much for me and my few time I can spare for these things.

    You don't need to complete every achievement so you can skip the strike mission entirely. There are 23 achievements that count for mastery, 5th tier -rewards mastery point- is 22 achievements (so can skip one), but the emote is for 4th tier, which is 19. 4 achievements of your choice are skippable (probably Strike grind, Stormcaller collection, tengu collection.. and another one of your choice). It really is pretty easy to get with a few replays of the meta.

    I know, but then I have to craft/buy 32 weapons... some fewer due to achievements, but still. That's no fun to me. I'd rather gather more charr recommendations, because there I can actually play what I like and do events all over the map... or similar. I have everything except the weapons and the strike mission.^^

  • tl;dr the data published in the Original Post does not (by itself) support the hypothesis that participation is declining. The number of participants in "this month's" content is always less, for predictable reasons.

    The ideal comparison is to use "snapshots" for participation after 2 months. Since we don't have that, the next best is comparing relative participation and that shows a different picture: relative participation is similar.

    (My personal belief is that the OP is likely correct that participation is dropping for metas. But I don't think we players have access to any data that can demonstrate that. Instead, I think the most effective way to convey "meta fatigue" is to post our opinion, rather than trying to teach ANet what their numbers mean.)


    In More Detail

    The original data doesn't show that the participation numbers increase as time goes by. The numbers for the most recent content will always be less than for last year's content, even if the game's population has dropped. The current episode only has the early adopter participation; the oldest episodes have all the new, returning, and "didn't feel like it" participants.

    A true apples:apples comparison requires taking a snapshot of completion rates at various times, which GW2 Efficiency doesn't report on the main site. It's probably okay to compare 4-year old achievements with 3-year old ones; as time goes by, the cumulative differences will diminish. But it's definitely not reliable to compare 3-month old achievements with 6-month old ones.


    Proxies for Comparison

    One proxy I've used in the past is to compare relative completion rates. How many started versus how many finished? Using the OP's numbers, those ratios look like this:

    • Bound by Blood 0.82
    • Whisper in the Dark 0.91
    • Shadow in the Ice 0.79
    • Steel and Fire 0.95
    • No Quarter 0.75
    • Jormag Rising 0.82

    Notice that Jormag Rising is the same as Bound by Blood, and No Quarter is close with Whisper in the Dark. These rates go up and down, partly because not everyone enjoys each episode as much as the next, partly because Real Life™ affects us different in each month, and, as some noted above, the ability to gain other rewards is sometimes gated by story completion, and sometimes not.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    I like the emotes, but I hate farming. 50 times that one strike mission? Nope, I am out. Collecting a gazillion of weapons? Not really exciting to me.

    Some work is fine, some requiring to play the map is nice. But it has become too much for me and my few time I can spare for these things.

    You don't need to complete every achievement so you can skip the strike mission entirely. There are 23 achievements that count for mastery, 5th tier -rewards mastery point- is 22 achievements (so can skip one), but the emote is for 4th tier, which is 19. 4 achievements of your choice are skippable (probably Strike grind, Stormcaller collection, tengu collection.. and another one of your choice). It really is pretty easy to get with a few replays of the meta.

    I know, but then I have to craft/buy 32 weapons... some fewer due to achievements, but still. That's no fun to me. I'd rather gather more charr recommendations, because there I can actually play what I like and do events all over the map... or similar. I have everything except the weapons and the strike mission.^^

    I thought you were complaining about not getting the emote, but to get the emote you can skip 4 achievements, because it's the 4th tier reward. 5th tier is just mastery point and there's enough around to skip this one too, no need for grinding the weapons or strike missions ;p

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    I like the emotes, but I hate farming. 50 times that one strike mission? Nope, I am out. Collecting a gazillion of weapons? Not really exciting to me.

    Some work is fine, some requiring to play the map is nice. But it has become too much for me and my few time I can spare for these things.

    You don't need to complete every achievement so you can skip the strike mission entirely. There are 23 achievements that count for mastery, 5th tier -rewards mastery point- is 22 achievements (so can skip one), but the emote is for 4th tier, which is 19. 4 achievements of your choice are skippable (probably Strike grind, Stormcaller collection, tengu collection.. and another one of your choice). It really is pretty easy to get with a few replays of the meta.

    I know, but then I have to craft/buy 32 weapons... some fewer due to achievements, but still. That's no fun to me. I'd rather gather more charr recommendations, because there I can actually play what I like and do events all over the map... or similar. I have everything except the weapons and the strike mission.^^

    I thought you were complaining about not getting the emote, but to get the emote you can skip 4 achievements, because it's the 4th tier reward. 5th tier is just mastery point and there's enough around to skip this one too, no need for grinding the weapons or strike missions ;p

    Ooohh, hold on, it's just 4th tier reward? Thank you, I will check that out! One of those should be doable even for me. Still not the full meta achievement, but everything I am looking for. :smile:

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not playing much due to the lag issues, they've kinda killed my will to play over the last few months.

    I expect i'll start playing more once the voice patch and new episode release since i'll have a lot of new content to experience for the first time.
    It's pretty common for people to come back around a new content release anyway, but not everyone sticks around and farms new maps.
    Personally I don't care for farming so if I stick around and farm new maps over and over I get so sick of them that I never want to play them again.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2020

    Stating numbers from gw2efficiency amounts to nothing.
    It's no vertical slice throughout the player communities.
    If I had to guess, the majority, especially casual players, do not care to register there (if they even know that website exists).

    And aside from that, it's no small number of players that shunned the last two episodes due to the absence of voice acting,
    causing a bigger dip in player participation than usual.

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @notebene.3190 said:
    Actually, just went to look at Efficiency to see if I could figure out how to look at it that way , and I did do WitD. I'm noticing I have to go 'fishing' to find the meta. Efficiency shows percentages complete based on 'everything'. I for sure don't do 'everything'. Are your percentages based on 'everything', or just 'completing the Meta' (which I see Efficiency calls the 'Mastery')?

    Efficiency shows completion of meta, not completion of everything.

    I must be looking at the wrong thing then. https://gw2efficiency.com/account/achievements shows me I've completed what it calls "Jormag Rising" Mastery, which is what I would consider the 'meta' achievement, but it shows on the left outline bar, and at top, that I've only completed 82% (53/64) of 'everything' for Jormag Rising.

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At some point a trend appeared where more grind-type achievements started to get included into the meta, and the grind on those grindy achievements also started to increase. Additionally, the leeway for completing the meta seemed to get smaller and smaller (or perhaps the number of achievements i considered too annoying that were required to finish the meta increased). At some point (somewhere during early S4, i think?) i didn't manage to finish the meta before next chapter arrived. Due to this i didn't feel as pressured to do the meta for that next chapter, which means the situation repeated. This continued, until i realized i haven't finished the meta on any of the chapters since that, and my meta completion levels get lower and lower every chapter. As such, i wasn't as annoyed by strike requirements for the meta as Vayne was - by that point i have already practically gave up on completing it anyway.

    I find it kind of funny that Anet, increasing the achievement grind in order to keep players longer in the game, in my case caused an exactly opposite effect - i'm now spending far less time on those achievements than before.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2020

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:
    The 3 metas with the lowest completion percentages are also the 3 only ones that don't need full completion for the reward. This may be a factor.

    Couple this with the cost and the last 2 episodes having no voice-over (people waiting for it).

    P.S. this is the wrong section for Living Story

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really don't understand why this thread was moved to Dungeons/Fractals and Raids when in fact it's about living story meta achievements.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2020

    @notebene.3190 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @notebene.3190 said:
    Actually, just went to look at Efficiency to see if I could figure out how to look at it that way , and I did do WitD. I'm noticing I have to go 'fishing' to find the meta. Efficiency shows percentages complete based on 'everything'. I for sure don't do 'everything'. Are your percentages based on 'everything', or just 'completing the Meta' (which I see Efficiency calls the 'Mastery')?

    Efficiency shows completion of meta, not completion of everything.

    I must be looking at the wrong thing then. https://gw2efficiency.com/account/achievements shows me I've completed what it calls "Jormag Rising" Mastery, which is what I would consider the 'meta' achievement, but it shows on the left outline bar, and at top, that I've only completed 82% (53/64) of 'everything' for Jormag Rising.

    I'm not sure how you got that confused. You get the Episode Mastery achievement once you complete the meta, if the meta has achievements to choose from then you don't need to finish everything. There are 38 achievements required to complete the meta and that's what gw2efficiency shows.

    You can go here: https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics to check what the registered users have completed. "Jormag Rising" Mastery was completed by 1.295% of the users, but The End of the Road was completed by 0.107%, less than the meta completion.

    So as I said:

    Efficiency shows completion of meta, not completion of everything.

    If you complete the meta you will be in the "Jormag Rising" Mastery (it will have a green check box) regardless if you've finished all other achievements or not.

    edit: what Vayne calculated is the number of players that finished the mastery of each episode from here: https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics and has nothing to do with finishing everything.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I find it kind of funny that Anet, increasing the achievement grind in order to keep players longer in the game, in my case caused an exactly opposite effect - i'm now spending far less time on those achievements than before.

    I'm in the exact same situation. I had full meta completion until A Star to Guide Us but since then I found it harder and harder to enjoy getting meta completion, I got all meta completions in S4, but I can't say I enjoyed the process, it was more of a slog and took me many many months. While in previous episodes, I'd get the meta completed -before- the next episode released. Until the Icebrood Saga started when I completely stopped caring about the meta anymore, not because of Strike Mission addition but because I found it too boring anymore and I gave up.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I really don't understand why this thread was moved to Dungeons/Fractals and Raids when in fact it's about living story meta achievements.

    ...indeed, this is weird.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    At some point a trend appeared where more grind-type achievements started to get included into the meta, and the grind on those grindy achievements also started to increase. Additionally, the leeway for completing the meta seemed to get smaller and smaller (or perhaps the number of achievements i considered too annoying that were required to finish the meta increased). At some point (somewhere during early S4, i think?) i didn't manage to finish the meta before next chapter arrived. Due to this i didn't feel as pressured to do the meta for that next chapter, which means the situation repeated. This continued, until i realized i haven't finished the meta on any of the chapters since that, and my meta completion levels get lower and lower every chapter. As such, i wasn't as annoyed by strike requirements for the meta as Vayne was - by that point i have already practically gave up on completing it anyway.

    I find it kind of funny that Anet, increasing the achievement grind in order to keep players longer in the game, in my case caused an exactly opposite effect - i'm now spending far less time on those achievements than before.

    Did the fact that you can get the "reward" without completing the Meta help?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I find it kind of funny that Anet, increasing the achievement grind in order to keep players longer in the game, in my case caused an exactly opposite effect - i'm now spending far less time on those achievements than before.

    I'm in the exact same situation. I had full meta completion until A Star to Guide Us but since then I found it harder and harder to enjoy getting meta completion, I got all meta completions in S4, but I can't say I enjoyed the process, it was more of a slog and took me many many months. While in previous episodes, I'd get the meta completed -before- the next episode released. Until the Icebrood Saga started when I completely stopped caring about the meta anymore, not because of Strike Mission addition but because I found it too boring anymore and I gave up.

    Yes, stuff has become more grindy (tbh, there has always been grindy achievements, but what is relevant here is that the "trivial" or regular achievements have become more grindy). I have everything completed myself, but I usually try to get everything done within 1 week after episode release, then never bother with the new content again, or barely.

    My personal assumption here, and I have no way of backing this up besides comparison to other MMORPGs, the long valued approach of having players drop in every few months for a few weeks just doesn't cut it any more revenue wise. Many players simply do not return or the money spent on the game for this hop ind and out approach is not high enough. I've always argued that only engaged and active players are spending money.

    As such, the content development went down a more grindy approach when it comes to achievements, given gear is not an option, as to keep players engaged longer. This is also reflected in the announcement of the armory (far ahead of any implementation or idea how to implement it), in an attempt to encourage more players into the far longer process of crafting legendary gear imo.

    This is I believe the studios reaction to the focus on living world content and keeping players busy as long as possible.

    TL;DR:
    The assumption that "regular", short term, returning players are contributing to this games revenue seems outdated. I believe the developers are trying a more constant engaged approach currently to see how this fares with players.

  • I’ve noticed like for LW S4 maps I don’t need to play them for currency. I just need to farm Bjora for ice shards, or do strikes for a while to get them, and exchange for currency. You can get all ascended trinkets that way too. No big reason to have to do the metas. I think Anet really messed up putting those currencies there, as it takes the necessity to do those maps and metas away. They should have made better rewards to exchange the ice shards for. Sure you can get an Amulet and an Accessory, but they could have come up with more things, like maybe Ascended weapons or a new sigil to work for or crafting consumable, etc.

  • People do what they love and what rewards they want so this certainly has a low correlation to anything substantial in regards to completion. Having the end reward be an emote that could easily be added in-game as an update is a lazy reward.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Icebrood Saga metas are crazily length, but still fair, because they are top loot atm.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I see no reason to complete them. If they happen to release a legendary item I that I like. Then I may think about going back and covering what I didn't get through normal play. I could care less about emotes... I would still like some of my face to grind off on other things.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The changes to the meta event in Drizzlewood Coast in today's update are a nice surprise. I haven't tried the changes in-game yet, but from the notes it seems like the changes were made in the right direction to help speed up the meta and minimize the less fun parts of it.

    Glad that the extensive feedback on this map after its release wasn't wasted. IMO Drizzlewood Coast always had great potential but had been implemented poorly previously. Hopefully after these changes today, it can become a more fun and active map for many people.

  • The last couple batches of meta achievements have been utter garbage. Give me thirty achievements, have me do twenty for 'completion'. Don't give me a bloody Sophie's Choice between equally bad 'achievements', or make the assumption that anyone likes your content enough to do a Strike Mission upwards of twenty times.

    I still haven't finished a couple of the Elonian metas, and I doubt I'll bother with the ones after the Charr homelands.

  • finkle.9513finkle.9513 Member ✭✭✭

    Why am I being forced to do these strike missions.. I do pve for the story.. I feel I am being forced to play a game style I do not like or enjoy.. I dont like raids.. but thank god they are not implemented into the story also..

    This story was a big disappointment for me.. if you are going to force players to play a niche can we have a skip the kitten button, and just see the story or dialog.. I would happily forfeit the terrible rewards ie exp and 1000 karma for 20mins of horrible repetitive content.. its just awful.

    I bet it look longer to produce the trailer than the content.

  • Ameepa.6793Ameepa.6793 Member ✭✭✭

    Strikes and huge amount of grind made me stop trying to finish it.

    I do not like to do group content at all and I'm not going to repeat anything for 50-100 times. Now I just do the story, explore the map and do the meta event couple of times. That used to be enough for completing the major part of the meta achievement before but now it's barely even 10% of that.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally I haven't even started with the latest content. Still playing older stuff since I rerturned to GW2 after having stopped playing end of 2013. (And doing GW1 as well now - for additional HoM achievement points and for the lore/plot.)

    Maybe ... with ArenaNet announcing new stuff trying to get new players (they want them to directly play the latest content) ... a lot of new players are coming in to the game and playing the first chapters of the latest content. Then starting to do older stuff in order. (Leading to a higher percentage of meta completion for the first chapters.)

    Strike missions ... I only played the winderstday one ... seem nice. While I usually try to avoid group content I even got into fractals (at least T1 and T2) cause of the fractal rush.

    Longer stuff where groups tend to focus more on professional gameplay - are more annoying. People might want perfect efficiendy cause it takes a lot of time even with playing at full dps efficiency. Then they start to complain/flame if you aren't good enough. Out of fear of this I didn't even bother with such conent.

    But strike missions that are even hot join at the beginning - with public mode - seem pretty okay I guess.

    Someone mentioned grind: Yeah that is boring. So far I did most story and map related stuff up to HoT and LS3 (starting with PoF soon) ... even the stuff like badges, tokens, coins - collecting them on the map. (Annoying and took long.) But I omitted crafting/collecting the armor sets and weapons sets unique to the maps. If such a stuff is required I'll always put it on hold. I'd rathre level a 2nd char and push it through the story and maps - instead of grinding for some sets where I don't even use most of the skins.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2020

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    According to GW2 Efficiency, the percentage of people who have completed zone meta achievements are trending down.

    No wonder. Most achievements are mere grinding these days and therefore extremely boring to do, especially if you have to play a 90-120 minute meta like Drizzlewood Coast. I only finished the achievements that gave AP on the latter for the previous episode, because I was sick and tired of said meta event.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    at fisrt "According to GW2 Efficiency, the percentage of people who have completed .." is the "According to GW2 Efficiency, the percentage of people who give api key for gw2eficiency, have completed .."
    This is big difference.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    it should be trend down. This is very nice. This is mean that we have a lot of content, and for example if spvp season come there is no point do ls, spsp very good for our roleplay players, is you can do always, so people try first do some content. Some of my friend start story after 1 year, currently they nor on l3. This is rolepla game, roleplay players don't reg acc to gw2effcincy,
    so let check that statistic after 5-7 years. I think we will see different numbers.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭✭

    The metas I am stuck on are the ones that are basically "Kill 1000 rats.". Yes I know this is an MMO and grind is there to help drag the content out since there is no way to make content quickly enough to keep up with the rate it is consumed/experienced.

    I just wish Arenanet would spend more time making achievements that are "Explore x" or "Find the coins." since thes can be done at your leisure.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    It seems like Anets solution to lack of content is to make grindy achievements.
    I completed pretty much all the LWS 3 achievements and most of the LWS4 (I think I missed a Crack in the Ice because there were no spare achievements, and the one I was missing was in a story instance, and I didn't feel like playing through 10 minutes of that story chapter before I could even start the achievements).
    A lot from those maps seemed to be to cover really exploring the map - defeating all the notable bosses, scavenger hunt, etc. But with IBS, even with Grothmar Valley (last meta I've completed) it became grindy - destroy 100 devourer nests, do this event 20 times, etc.
    In my case, them being more grindy has backfired if Anet wants me to play more - I look at them, say "I'm never going to do all that kitten, so no reason even trying"

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I noticed the new episode doesn't even have a meta achievement. I wonder if that's how it will be moving forward. Honestly I wouldn't really mind.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I noticed the new episode doesn't even have a meta achievement.

    I assume they'll add it at the end of the delayed releases of this episode.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solvar.7953 said:
    It seems like Anets solution to lack of content is to make grindy achievements.

    most all achiv a grindy from start. From "I am rich" to make "5000 kill blows with focus", kill 1000 giant, kill 1000 ... win 200 games wiht mesmer //
    Do we have not grindy achivs? Yes, but they not main part as alwyas and this is ok for mmo game.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm an achievement hunter and I have yet to finish the meta for any of the IBS releases.
    Not because they are bad or because I don't like them, but because they don't really interest me. Drizzlewood is fun to me still after all this time, but I sure as hell am not going to grind out every single thing that I am missing still.

  • I can only really speak for myself, but while the emotes are fun, I don't see them as being worth the grind. What I would really like is if a meta had multi-tiered rewards like the weapon/recipe collections have in recent episodes.

    Also, you want to -really- entice me? Do that, and make the final reward a converter for that map's currency/crafting materials. That'll light a fire under me to get going on those metas! Do you know how many Eitrite Ingots I have that I can't use!?! If I can convert 250 of them into a single Iron or even Silver Ore, I'll be content!