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Why Healbreaker gets no hotfix?

Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 15, 2020 in PVP

Having a healbreaker only in one team is like playing a 5 vs 6. Why is such a mayor imbalance not fixed immediately?

<13

Comments

  • @Marxx.5021 said:
    Having a healbreaker only in one team is like playing a 5 vs 6. Why is such a mayor imbalance not fixed immediately?

    'Cause it doesn't need one. All you need to do when someone is downed is target the healbraker, count to 2 and drop a daze. Spellbreaker needed a big nerf, it got one and now it stays in the dust where it belongs. No need to beat it any further.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    Having a healbreaker only in one team is like playing a 5 vs 6. Why is such a mayor imbalance not fixed immediately?

    'Cause it doesn't need one. All you need to do when someone is downed is target the healbraker, count to 2 and drop a daze. Spellbreaker needed a big nerf, it got one and now it stays in the dust where it belongs. No need to beat it any further.

    It is not about elite banner which has a long cooldown anway.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    How about we stop beating the dead horses that can no longer do any harm and target the live stallions instead?

    Unlike many other tanky builds, Heal Warriors quickly die to 1vs2 and even in 1vs1 they don't often win.

    It does not die quickly in a 1v2. Thats the point. Against condi it wont die at all. It is not about warrior either. It is the combination of full counter, condi remove and shout heals of that spell breaker build.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    How about we stop beating the dead horses that can no longer do any harm and target the live stallions instead?

    Unlike many other tanky builds, Heal Warriors quickly die to 1vs2 and even in 1vs1 they don't often win.

    It does not die quickly in a 1v2. Thats the point. Against condi it wont die at all. It is not about warrior either. It is the combination of full counter, condi remove and shout heals of that spell breaker build.

    I recommend you play it and then you can climb the ladder because it's so good

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why hotfix it, just bring other classes in a better spot

  • I swear to god they better not touch Shoutbreaker in WvW because of sPvP complaints.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    i swear 99% of the warriors who defend healbreaker dont even play it because truth is nobody wants to play this boring sleepy kitten build. Any player stuck on HB on a team (like misha) will tell you this.

    // Yanim

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:
    I swear to god they better not touch Shoutbreaker in WvW because of sPvP complaints.

    WvW deserves nothing because it's a confused aberration which rejects any elements of team composition balance or stat restrictions.

  • @Quadox.7834 said:
    i swear 99% of the warriors who defend healbreaker dont even play it because truth is nobody wants to play this boring sleepy kitten build

    I play shoutbreaker in both sPvP and WvW. It's actually a lot of fun. The warriors that don't like it are probably just not wanting the only meta build for warrior destroyed again.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, shoutwarri so complex gameplay, such stronk, much wow. Honestly, i didnt expect the pvp meta after february patch to be so kitten boring, lol

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    Why hotfix it, just bring other classes in a better spot

    You must be new here =)

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    @lovemghool.7613 said:
    do we cry over anything and everything now?

    No, this is about healbreaker in PvP. Having many warrior fan boys or no other viable warrior spec is no valid reason to not address it here.

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    seems like people want warrior completely gone from meta...
    healwarrior is only way to play warrior right now.. while its indeed very good. it is still depend on the team to deal damage
    is it sooooo op? idk i dont think its the biggest problem the balance got right now.. if you guys dont have 3 bots in the team and you can actually
    forcus the spell breaker together and take it out quickly it shouldnt be a problem..
    the real problem is .. that in every game you are likely to have 2-3 bots in your team.. and then calling a target means nothing because there are
    no actuall players to take on called target.. so everyone attack random player and the spell breaker keep healing them all

  • You guys would be lost without metabattle.
    Or straight up copying lol.

    "Warrior is the weakest class in the game and has no builds"

    • February
  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Ok what exactly is overperforming on warrior without exaggerating?
    Cause all I see is nerf war, again. Before it was 'It is carried by passives', they deleted the passives along with several traitlines, people started playing with active skills , ' berserker does too much damage, full counter kills me', no more damage, full counter doesn't do damage. Now support is too strong apparently, a build that has no stability and 2 stunbreaks that does no damage , and people are having terrible time with that. What the kitten do you want warrior to be a punching bag that does nothing and dies, is that it. Is that Mister 17 skills on the bar with the telegraphed attacks is beating your kitten the problem, is that an ego thing, cause it is supposedly 'the easiest to play class' ?

    agreed ... warrior is in such a sad spot right now... and you can legit only play it as support.
    apparently people dont want to see warrior in game. they prefer DD thief to kitten them out of no where .. zz

  • Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Garret.1965 said:
    Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

    Dealing next to no damage is no drawback?
    What would a drawback look like for you? Warrior doing negative damage and healing their opponents?

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Garret.1965 said:
    Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

    heal warrior got 0 damage which is drawback in its self.. if your team is slacking you worth nothing.. your cc is single target !
    tempest healing lots of it is also instant ! because each aura apply 1k heal and auras are instnat.
    on top on instant healing tempest provide instant full team stun with the lighting aura..
    aoe reflect
    aoe burn
    and tornado is a team fight win cc .. currently the only support played are warrior and tempest.. idk why instead of buffing and making more support classes
    you want to remove the only supports in game right now..

  • Garret.1965Garret.1965 Member ✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:

    Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

    Dealing next to no damage is no drawback?
    What would a drawback look like for you? Warrior doing negative damage and healing their opponents?

    Reread what I wrote. The bit about Spellbreaker having 'no such drawbacks' was in reference to Warrior's instant cast shouts versus tempests' overloads; which aren't instant, meaning they can be interrupted. The bulk of shouts from warrior, however, cannot be interrupted. It's merely an observation on my end as to why Spellbreaker supersedes Tempest. Maybe that isn't the entirety of why Spellbreaker is preferred, granted. But it's certainly one of the reasons.

  • Garret.1965Garret.1965 Member ✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:
    Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

    heal warrior got 0 damage which is drawback in its self.. if your team is slacking you worth nothing.. your cc is single target !
    tempest healing lots of it is also instant ! because each aura apply 1k heal and auras are instnat.
    on top on instant healing tempest provide instant full team stun with the lighting aura..
    aoe reflect
    aoe burn
    and tornado is a team fight win cc .. currently the only support played are warrior and tempest.. idk why instead of buffing and making more support classes
    you want to remove the only supports in game right now..

    Like the last person, you're confusing what I meant by drawbacks. The only thing relevant you've brought up is that tempest can also heal upon applying auras—three of which are instant casts via fire shield, shocking aura and sunspot (though the fire trait-line isn't always used). Outside of these two/three skills, however, access to other auras are gated by overloads, and overloads require four whole seconds to cast. Allowing plenty of counter-play to exist in granting these auras and any other effect given by overloads. Three of the shouts used from spellbreaker, however, (each of the three having two charges of their own) don't have this kind of counter-play. Understand what I mean, now?

    And if by chance you're referring to tempests' own shouts (which haven't seen meta play outside of the heal skill) then I'd like to point out the blatant difference in both healing and number of uses between tempest and warrior shouts. It's quite significant.

    And last but not least, never once did I say anything about wanting to remove support warrior from the game.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Ok what exactly is overperforming on warrior without exaggerating?

    Unblockable AE daze every 8 seconds combined with a flow of ae heals and condi remove.

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Garret.1965 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:
    Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

    heal warrior got 0 damage which is drawback in its self.. if your team is slacking you worth nothing.. your cc is single target !
    tempest healing lots of it is also instant ! because each aura apply 1k heal and auras are instnat.
    on top on instant healing tempest provide instant full team stun with the lighting aura..
    aoe reflect
    aoe burn
    and tornado is a team fight win cc .. currently the only support played are warrior and tempest.. idk why instead of buffing and making more support classes
    you want to remove the only supports in game right now..

    Like the last person, you're confusing what I meant by drawbacks. The only thing relevant you've brought up is that tempest can also heal upon applying auras—one of them being an instant cast from the dagger set (fire shield). Outside of this one skill, however, access to other auras are gated by overloads, and overloads require four whole seconds to cast. Allowing plenty of counter-play to exist in granting these auras and any other effect given by overloads. Three of the shouts used from spellbreaker, however, don't have this kind of counter-play. Understand what I mean, now?

    And if by chance you're referring to tempests' own shouts (which haven't seen meta play outside of the heal skill) then I'd like to point out the difference in healing and number of uses between tempest and warrior shouts. It's quite significant.

    And last but not least, never once did I say anything about wanting to remove support warrior from the game.

    you are wrong.. air dagger 3 and fire focus 5 are both instant auras. attuning to fire when you have fire traitline also grand an instant fire aura ^^

  • Garret.1965Garret.1965 Member ✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:
    Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

    heal warrior got 0 damage which is drawback in its self.. if your team is slacking you worth nothing.. your cc is single target !
    tempest healing lots of it is also instant ! because each aura apply 1k heal and auras are instnat.
    on top on instant healing tempest provide instant full team stun with the lighting aura..
    aoe reflect
    aoe burn
    and tornado is a team fight win cc .. currently the only support played are warrior and tempest.. idk why instead of buffing and making more support classes
    you want to remove the only supports in game right now..

    Like the last person, you're confusing what I meant by drawbacks. The only thing relevant you've brought up is that tempest can also heal upon applying auras—one of them being an instant cast from the dagger set (fire shield). Outside of this one skill, however, access to other auras are gated by overloads, and overloads require four whole seconds to cast. Allowing plenty of counter-play to exist in granting these auras and any other effect given by overloads. Three of the shouts used from spellbreaker, however, don't have this kind of counter-play. Understand what I mean, now?

    And if by chance you're referring to tempests' own shouts (which haven't seen meta play outside of the heal skill) then I'd like to point out the difference in healing and number of uses between tempest and warrior shouts. It's quite significant.

    And last but not least, never once did I say anything about wanting to remove support warrior from the game.

    you are wrong.. air dagger 3 and fire focus 5 are both instant auras. attuning to fire when you have fire traitline also grand an instant fire aura ^^

    Ah, you're right, I did forget to mention shocking aura and the extra fire aura if you're using the fire trait-line. But what I otherwise said still applies.

    • Edited post to include the other two sources of instant cast auras.
  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Garret.1965 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:
    Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

    heal warrior got 0 damage which is drawback in its self.. if your team is slacking you worth nothing.. your cc is single target !
    tempest healing lots of it is also instant ! because each aura apply 1k heal and auras are instnat.
    on top on instant healing tempest provide instant full team stun with the lighting aura..
    aoe reflect
    aoe burn
    and tornado is a team fight win cc .. currently the only support played are warrior and tempest.. idk why instead of buffing and making more support classes
    you want to remove the only supports in game right now..

    Like the last person, you're confusing what I meant by drawbacks. The only thing relevant you've brought up is that tempest can also heal upon applying auras—one of them being an instant cast from the dagger set (fire shield). Outside of this one skill, however, access to other auras are gated by overloads, and overloads require four whole seconds to cast. Allowing plenty of counter-play to exist in granting these auras and any other effect given by overloads. Three of the shouts used from spellbreaker, however, don't have this kind of counter-play. Understand what I mean, now?

    And if by chance you're referring to tempests' own shouts (which haven't seen meta play outside of the heal skill) then I'd like to point out the difference in healing and number of uses between tempest and warrior shouts. It's quite significant.

    And last but not least, never once did I say anything about wanting to remove support warrior from the game.

    you are wrong.. air dagger 3 and fire focus 5 are both instant auras. attuning to fire when you have fire traitline also grand an instant fire aura ^^

    Ah, you're right, I did forget to mention shocking aura and the extra fire aura if you're using the fire traitline. But what I otherwise said still applies.

    doesnt matter that warrior and tempest are both as equally good.. each got pros and cons why people complain about warrior is its more common because its easier to play.. all you need to do is spam .. but a pro tempest i think got more impact on the game than warrior due to the aoe cc and reflect

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    in my mind warrior and ele are about as strong as each other, the difference comes down to the fact that ele can make mistakes and warrior is so stupid easy that you legit cant kitten up. well played ele and warrior would probably be REALLY close in value but in the end we are humans and we make mistakes, and shout warrior cant really fail lol.
    Ideally, instead of nerfing warrior they SHOULD somehow make it more interactive and hard to play, but in all honesty I dont see how it can be done.
    When you boil it down, all warrior does is give instacast massive heals, massive might and spams insane CC on to people. Logically how the kitten do you make it hard to play? I see no way, other then increasing cooldowns and impact of skills and maybe giving some smallish rework to shouts or something.
    But with the way the game is developed it aint happenin fam, so the best case scenario, they buff power warrior and gut the support, then again.
    what support other then tempest takes any braincells to play? what is there out there? definitely not a FB thats for sure. MB we should have welcome our overlords tempest and take the shocking auras up the kitten sot hat we dont have to deal with FB being OP and kitten like warrior shouts.
    Just a secret handshake, keep tempest strong and kitten off with FB and warrior.

  • @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:

    @noiwk.2760 said:

    @Garret.1965 said:
    Instant cast heals, cleanses and buffs are what's pushing warrior over the edge. Tempest also has access to heals, cleanses and buffs through namely overloads. But overloads require time and can be interrupted before their benefits are applied. Spellbreaker has no such drawbacks.

    heal warrior got 0 damage which is drawback in its self.. if your team is slacking you worth nothing.. your cc is single target !
    tempest healing lots of it is also instant ! because each aura apply 1k heal and auras are instnat.
    on top on instant healing tempest provide instant full team stun with the lighting aura..
    aoe reflect
    aoe burn
    and tornado is a team fight win cc .. currently the only support played are warrior and tempest.. idk why instead of buffing and making more support classes
    you want to remove the only supports in game right now..

    Like the last person, you're confusing what I meant by drawbacks. The only thing relevant you've brought up is that tempest can also heal upon applying auras—one of them being an instant cast from the dagger set (fire shield). Outside of this one skill, however, access to other auras are gated by overloads, and overloads require four whole seconds to cast. Allowing plenty of counter-play to exist in granting these auras and any other effect given by overloads. Three of the shouts used from spellbreaker, however, don't have this kind of counter-play. Understand what I mean, now?

    And if by chance you're referring to tempests' own shouts (which haven't seen meta play outside of the heal skill) then I'd like to point out the difference in healing and number of uses between tempest and warrior shouts. It's quite significant.

    And last but not least, never once did I say anything about wanting to remove support warrior from the game.

    you are wrong.. air dagger 3 and fire focus 5 are both instant auras. attuning to fire when you have fire traitline also grand an instant fire aura ^^

    Ah, you're right, I did forget to mention shocking aura and the extra fire aura if you're using the fire traitline. But what I otherwise said still applies.

    doesnt matter that warrior and tempest are both as equally good.. each got pros and cons why people complain about warrior is its more common because its easier to play.. all you need to do is spam .. but a pro tempest i think got more impact on the game than warrior due to the aoe cc and reflect

    Nah fam, people use Spellbreaker right now because its all around more effective. If tempest chooses fire over earth for cleansing then they're wont to get one shot. And if they choose earth over fire to not get one shot then they lose out on that cleansing support potential. Spellbreaker comparatively doesn't have this 'either or' issue that tempest has. It can be both tanky and cleanse allies pretty darn well. The fact that it's easier to play has little relevance as to why it's used, especially when we consider Mats.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Ok what exactly is overperforming on warrior without exaggerating?

    Unblockable AE daze every 8 seconds combined with a flow of ae heals and condi remove.

    Unbookable AOE daze that is activated by other people if the the attacked one has enough resource to trigger it, which the class is paying for by nerfing its main mechanic by 200%, 15400 heal if you blow your cds at once and condition removal that comes from a rune. The heal and the condition removal is achievable by any support, but I haven't seen another build to sack its whole bar to do just that and only that. So the only leaves FC to be the problem which is an AOE attack that is the main mechanic of the elite that just dazes and adds disables, you have to be careful with ONE mechanic on the build, every class gets multiple different skills but you have issue with ONE mechanic that does the same thing over and over.
    You explained that a support build that does cc, heals and removes conditions is a problem. That is the basic kitten that a support should kitten do to be even considered a support.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Ok what exactly is overperforming on warrior without exaggerating?

    Unblockable AE daze every 8 seconds combined with a flow of ae heals and condi remove.

    Unbookable AOE daze that is activated by other people if the the attacked one has enough resource to trigger it, which the class is paying for by nerfing its main mechanic by 200%, 15400 heal if you blow your cds at once and condition removal that comes from a rune. The heal and the condition removal is achievable by any support, but I haven't seen another build to sack its whole bar to do just that and only that. So the only leaves FC to be the problem which is an AOE attack that is the main mechanic of the elite that just dazes and adds disables, you have to be careful with ONE mechanic on the build, every class gets multiple different skills but you have issue with ONE mechanic that does the same thing over and over.
    You explained that a support build that does cc, heals and removes conditions is a problem. That is the basic kitten that a support should kitten do to be even considered a support.

    who else can do it instantly? isnt this the problem here?
    the reason why thief and mesmer are weak as kitten are due to them having instant abilities, they have to be weak to compensate.
    Warrior doesnt compensate. Shouts are silly.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Ok what exactly is overperforming on warrior without exaggerating?

    Unblockable AE daze every 8 seconds combined with a flow of ae heals and condi remove.

    Unbookable AOE daze that is activated by other people if the the attacked one has enough resource to trigger it, which the class is paying for by nerfing its main mechanic by 200%, 15400 heal if you blow your cds at once and condition removal that comes from a rune. The heal and the condition removal is achievable by any support, but I haven't seen another build to sack its whole bar to do just that and only that. So the only leaves FC to be the problem which is an AOE attack that is the main mechanic of the elite that just dazes and adds disables, you have to be careful with ONE mechanic on the build, every class gets multiple different skills but you have issue with ONE mechanic that does the same thing over and over.
    You explained that a support build that does cc, heals and removes conditions is a problem. That is the basic kitten that a support should kitten do to be even considered a support.

    who else can do it instantly? isnt this the problem here?
    the reason why thief and mesmer are weak as kitten are due to them having instant abilities, they have to be weak to compensate.
    Warrior doesnt compensate. Shouts are silly.

    How the kitten is Thief weak it is practically unkillable while able to do 5k hits one after another. I don't get why are you complaining about mesemer vs support warrior, when it is one of the biggest counters to Healbreaker.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Ok what exactly is overperforming on warrior without exaggerating?

    Unblockable AE daze every 8 seconds combined with a flow of ae heals and condi remove.

    Unbookable AOE daze that is activated by other people if the the attacked one has enough resource to trigger it, which the class is paying for by nerfing its main mechanic by 200%, 15400 heal if you blow your cds at once and condition removal that comes from a rune. The heal and the condition removal is achievable by any support, but I haven't seen another build to sack its whole bar to do just that and only that. So the only leaves FC to be the problem which is an AOE attack that is the main mechanic of the elite that just dazes and adds disables, you have to be careful with ONE mechanic on the build, every class gets multiple different skills but you have issue with ONE mechanic that does the same thing over and over.
    You explained that a support build that does cc, heals and removes conditions is a problem. That is the basic kitten that a support should kitten do to be even considered a support.

    who else can do it instantly? isnt this the problem here?
    the reason why thief and mesmer are weak as kitten are due to them having instant abilities, they have to be weak to compensate.
    Warrior doesnt compensate. Shouts are silly.

    How the kitten is Thief weak it is practically unkillable while able to do 5k hits one after another. I don't get why are you complaining about mesemer vs support warrior, when it is one of the biggest counters to Healbreaker.

    exactly my point, 5k hits aint that high compared to 10k-15k hits from holo, yet thief is mandatory anyways, its better to do " weak " hits with no counterplay then strong hits with a windup. Similar thing with the healing should apply, why is it fine for war to instaheal to full if tempest has to huff and puff to get the same healing?

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Ok what exactly is overperforming on warrior without exaggerating?

    Unblockable AE daze every 8 seconds combined with a flow of ae heals and condi remove.

    Unbookable AOE daze that is activated by other people if the the attacked one has enough resource to trigger it, which the class is paying for by nerfing its main mechanic by 200%, 15400 heal if you blow your cds at once and condition removal that comes from a rune. The heal and the condition removal is achievable by any support, but I haven't seen another build to sack its whole bar to do just that and only that. So the only leaves FC to be the problem which is an AOE attack that is the main mechanic of the elite that just dazes and adds disables, you have to be careful with ONE mechanic on the build, every class gets multiple different skills but you have issue with ONE mechanic that does the same thing over and over.
    You explained that a support build that does cc, heals and removes conditions is a problem. That is the basic kitten that a support should kitten do to be even considered a support.

    who else can do it instantly? isnt this the problem here?
    the reason why thief and mesmer are weak as kitten are due to them having instant abilities, they have to be weak to compensate.
    Warrior doesnt compensate. Shouts are silly.

    How the kitten is Thief weak it is practically unkillable while able to do 5k hits one after another. I don't get why are you complaining about mesemer vs support warrior, when it is one of the biggest counters to Healbreaker.

    exactly my point, 5k hits aint that high compared to 10k-15k hits from holo, yet thief is mandatory anyways, its better to do " weak " hits with no counterplay then strong hits with a windup. Similar thing with the healing should apply, why is it fine for war to instaheal to full if tempest has to huff and puff to get the same healing?

    if you check total healing of warrior and tempest the tempest heal more..
    water overload heal a kitten tons .. warrior healing are instant but small.. and if you just gonna smash everything you will easily be put on cd .
    warrior is also soooo easy to target compared to tempest.. you got 2 disengage skills are that meh . sowrd 2 dagger 2
    and shield 5 for block.. yes its nice and if someone focusing you .. you can get away.. but when a team is focusing you you will die ..
    tempest on the other hand.. got obsidan flash . got utility skils for frame time and teleports dagger earth 3 fire 2 its soo hard to focus a tempest .. if you are projectiles he cna reflect them by using earth 4 on focus or overload earth that give aura.. which is amazing counter for lich form and pew pew ..
    i honestly dont get why people want to see warrior completely gone from the meta..

  • noiwk.2760noiwk.2760 Member ✭✭✭

    and if you ask me.. both holo and thief are broken op and need tuning down..
    stealth is just kitten .. bow 5 for thief is way too much mobility.. and thief can hit hard .. thief got amazing burst. idk why people think it doent..
    no matter what weapon set you use .. they got good burst.. staff/dagger pistol

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Ok what exactly is overperforming on warrior without exaggerating?

    Unblockable AE daze every 8 seconds combined with a flow of ae heals and condi remove.

    Unbookable AOE daze that is activated by other people if the the attacked one has enough resource to trigger it, which the class is paying for by nerfing its main mechanic by 200%, 15400 heal if you blow your cds at once and condition removal that comes from a rune. The heal and the condition removal is achievable by any support, but I haven't seen another build to sack its whole bar to do just that and only that. So the only leaves FC to be the problem which is an AOE attack that is the main mechanic of the elite that just dazes and adds disables, you have to be careful with ONE mechanic on the build, every class gets multiple different skills but you have issue with ONE mechanic that does the same thing over and over.
    You explained that a support build that does cc, heals and removes conditions is a problem. That is the basic kitten that a support should kitten do to be even considered a support.

    who else can do it instantly? isnt this the problem here?
    the reason why thief and mesmer are weak as kitten are due to them having instant abilities, they have to be weak to compensate.
    Warrior doesnt compensate. Shouts are silly.

    How the kitten is Thief weak it is practically unkillable while able to do 5k hits one after another. I don't get why are you complaining about mesemer vs support warrior, when it is one of the biggest counters to Healbreaker.

    exactly my point, 5k hits aint that high compared to 10k-15k hits from holo, yet thief is mandatory anyways, its better to do " weak " hits with no counterplay then strong hits with a windup. Similar thing with the healing should apply, why is it fine for war to instaheal to full if tempest has to huff and puff to get the same healing?

    Holo does multiple hits like thief it can just unload it faster cause other reasons (don't want to open that can of worms again), and 5k is not a small hit that is a full death spiral on Reaper. Warrior has only one source of team healing, elementalist has multiple, it has Heal over time with regeneration and soughing mists and it has burst heals the same goes for guardian, both of these also have amazing team support abilities. People are not playing support warrior cause it is better then guardian or ele, they are playing it cause it is the only way to play warrior currently, the build is also one dimensional it does its job good but it won't do some game changing play.

  • Zeesh.7286Zeesh.7286 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the problem with HB is how braindead easy it is play as compared to a tempest. With a tempest overload management is tricky, condi removal requires you to actively apply and transmute auras, tempest has the lowest base armor in game too as well as lower HP compared to a Healbreaker and tempests need to actively predict the flow of battle to properly swap attunements and overloads on time. Swapping attunements 1 sec later or starting an overload one second later is a matter of a full team wipe. The effort to rewards ratio favors Healbreakers.

    The best case scenario right now would be to reduce the cooldown on tempest sustain skills like mistform and obsidian flesh especially now that tempest cannot overload/glyph rez into mistform. It makes making mistakes on tempest just a tad bit less punishing.

    I don't think outright gutting healbreaker is good. It is very effective against condi and I think that's a good thing. It is a new addition to the viable classes we have in spvp right now. If your team is running 3 condi builds when you know the enemy team has a healbreaker then you do kinda deserve to have a hard time. The game allows people to swap in the first minute.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zeesh.7286 said:
    I think the problem with HB is how braindead easy it is play as compared to a tempest. With a tempest overload management is tricky, condi removal requires you to actively apply and transmute auras, tempest has the lowest base armor in game too as well as lower HP compared to a Healbreaker and tempests need to actively predict the flow of battle to properly swap attunements and overloads on time. Swapping attunements 1 sec later or starting an overload one second later is a matter of a full team wipe. The effort to rewards ratio favors Healbreakers.

    The best case scenario right now would be to reduce the cooldown on tempest sustain skills like mistform and obsidian flesh especially now that tempest cannot overload/glyph rez into mistform. It makes making mistakes on tempest just a tad bit less punishing.

    I don't think outright gutting healbreaker is good. It is very effective against condi and I think that's a good thing. It is a new addition to the viable classes we have in spvp right now. If your team is running 3 condi builds when you know the enemy team has a healbreaker then you do kinda deserve to have a hard time. The game allows people to swap in the first minute.

    the problem starts when healbreaker is good against 5x power builds anyways. And as always, instead of making tempest easier to play, they should make healspb harder to play.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2020

    Hypothetical here. What would a balanced meta support look like?

    Have we even taken the time to consider the end goal of these nerfs we'd like to achieve? I've heard vague statements like "Make the game more like core days, but what does that mean? Do we want every class to be a generalist? Do we want more build variety?

    What meta class which has existed in the history of guild wars 2 has been considered good and healthy for the game?

    I ask these things because I honestly do not see an issue with Heal Spellbreaker from a balance perspective. It does its job. It has tools to keep itself alive, and it has good utility and CC. In exchange it has very little pressure of its own and relies heavily on it's teamates to carry in terms of damage.

    It fulfills the archetype of beefy frontline who empowers allies. It has the typical pros and cons that come with it. _

    When a build becomes meta, we don't engage in any constructive discussion about said build. We read off the bullet points and say "X is a tanky support class, therefore by definition it supports a lot and it doesn't die when you hit it. It should be nerfed because it supports a lot and it does not die when you hit it".

    Why Hspb feels broken in this context is because other classes which may try to take up this mantle have been nerfed to the point where they can no longer do so and be effective.

    Firebrand had its boons and self sustain neutered to the point where it can no longer empower nor be durable
    Scrapper had it's sustain and tankiness neutered to the point where it can no longer fill the role of tanky support
    Druid recieved several harsh nerfs which neutered it's ability to support its allies at all.

    We're comparing Spellbreaker to other builds of the same archetype which can no longer fill that role. Of course it's going to look broken by comparison, but at what point do we take a step back and ask:

    "Is spellbreaker too strong or is everything else too weak"?

  • @Marxx.5021 said:
    Having a healbreaker only in one team is like playing a 5 vs 6. Why is such a mayor imbalance not fixed immediately?

    Healbreaker does no damage, has limited crowd control, and is somewhat helpless at range other than being a damage sponge. It is strongest when you let the other team crowd around it.

    I assume you mean conquest. At mid to low levels you have two choices. Coordinate crowd control and fight as a group. Or potentially easier (team comp) force their team to split instead of banging your head against a full team at one point. You want to reduce the number of people around the healbreaker. This way it is constantly running between points, outnumbered on a point, and/or it is alone on a point.

    Then have your ranged classes (900 to 1200 range) focus on the group with the healbreaker. Most of its abilities are limited to a 600 radius, so use that to your advantage and control the fight location. If it is alone then send a class with knockbacks and decent damage/survival. Knock it off point and start claiming while slowly killing it.

  • @Kuma.1503 said:
    Hypothetical here. What would a balanced meta support look like?

    Have we even taken the time to consider the end goal of these nerfs we'd like to achieve? I've heard vague statements like "Make the game more like core days, but what does that mean? Do we want every class to be a generalist? Do we want more build variety?

    What meta class which has existed in the history of guild wars 2 has been considered good and healthy for the game?

    I ask these things because I honestly do not see an issue with Heal Spellbreaker from a balance perspective. It does its job. It has tools to keep itself alive, and it has good utility and CC. In exchange it has very little pressure of its own and relies heavily on it's teamates to carry in terms of damage.

    It fulfills the archetype of beefy frontline who empowers allies. It has the typical pros and cons that come with it. _

    When a build becomes meta, we don't engage in any constructive discussion about said build. We read off the bullet points and say "X is a tanky support class, therefore by definition it supports a lot and it doesn't die when you hit it. It should be nerfed because it supports a lot and it does not die when you hit it".

    Why Hspb feels broken in this context is because other classes which may try to take up this mantle have been nerfed to the point where they can no longer do so and be effective.

    Firebrand had its boons and self sustain neutered to the point where it can no longer empower nor be durable
    Scrapper had it's sustain and tankiness neutered to the point where it can no longer fill the role of tanky support
    Druid recieved several harsh nerfs which neutered it's ability to support its allies at all.

    We're comparing Spellbreaker to other builds of the same archetype which can no longer fill that role. Of course it's going to look broken by comparison, but at what point do we take a step back and ask:

    "Is spellbreaker too strong or is everything else too weak"?

    The biggest tragedy of all; Ventari is forgotten once more. 😭

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Hypothetical here. What would a balanced meta support look like?

    Have we even taken the time to consider the end goal of these nerfs we'd like to achieve? I've heard vague statements like "Make the game more like core days, but what does that mean? Do we want every class to be a generalist? Do we want more build variety?

    What meta class which has existed in the history of guild wars 2 has been considered good and healthy for the game?

    I ask these things because I honestly do not see an issue with Heal Spellbreaker from a balance perspective. It does its job. It has tools to keep itself alive, and it has good utility and CC. In exchange it has very little pressure of its own and relies heavily on it's teamates to carry in terms of damage.

    It fulfills the archetype of beefy frontline who empowers allies. It has the typical pros and cons that come with it. _

    When a build becomes meta, we don't engage in any constructive discussion about said build. We read off the bullet points and say "X is a tanky support class, therefore by definition it supports a lot and it doesn't die when you hit it. It should be nerfed because it supports a lot and it does not die when you hit it".

    Why Hspb feels broken in this context is because other classes which may try to take up this mantle have been nerfed to the point where they can no longer do so and be effective.

    Firebrand had its boons and self sustain neutered to the point where it can no longer empower nor be durable
    Scrapper had it's sustain and tankiness neutered to the point where it can no longer fill the role of tanky support
    Druid recieved several harsh nerfs which neutered it's ability to support its allies at all.

    We're comparing Spellbreaker to other builds of the same archetype which can no longer fill that role. Of course it's going to look broken by comparison, but at what point do we take a step back and ask:

    "Is spellbreaker too strong or is everything else too weak"?

    The biggest tragedy of all; Ventari is forgotten once more. 😭

    If it's any colsolation, I forgot Scourge too xD

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Mfw people actually start complaining about HEALER WARRIOR, something so far away from what Warrior is originally archetyped as, discovered only because the Profession got dumpstered so hard in the other aspects.

    Gosh, people really will cry nerf about every bloody thing.

    discovered only because it is the best AND easiest support in the game*

    // Yanim

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Mfw people actually start complaining about HEALER WARRIOR, something so far away from what Warrior is originally archetyped as, discovered only because the Profession got dumpstered so hard in the other aspects.

    Gosh, people really will cry nerf about every bloody thing.

    discovered only because it is the best AND easiest support in the game*

    People knew about it from WvW way way long before that, but still ran bruiser till it couldn't match anything anymore.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Mfw people actually start complaining about HEALER WARRIOR, something so far away from what Warrior is originally archetyped as, discovered only because the Profession got dumpstered so hard in the other aspects.

    Gosh, people really will cry nerf about every bloody thing.

    discovered only because it is the best AND easiest support in the game*

    People knew about it from WvW way way long before that, but still ran bruiser till it couldn't match anything anymore.

    discovered in context basically means "top teams started running it"

    // Yanim