[Suggestion] Masteries

With the release of the new Dragon Response Mission masteries, I would like to make a suggestion to ArenaNet.

Please stop making map specific or even worse, content specific mastery lines. The new mastery line (based on descriptions) revolves 100% around Dragon Response Missions. In 6 months, will these missions be retired into oblivion as well? What is the point of grinding out 8,001,000 XP to finish the line, to then be pointless and contribute to no meaningful character development?

Others can chime in on their feelings about this, but I think most players would agree that masteries are getting more and more shallow as we progress farther and farther away from the core PoF mastery lines. Sure, it is "horizontal progression" that travels horizontally for 300 meters and drops off a cliff into the unending abyss of abandonment.

I'd even be happy for some brain dead "account wide bonus" such as 10% increase to gathering speed, 5% increase in gold, etc. etc. for each mastery line completed so there is some long-term reward for pushing through and completing a whole mastery line and not some "single-serving system" that will be thrown out for the next wave of single serving content. I do not want to see this current throw away "philosophy" carried over into EoD.

@"firedragon.8953" said:

I'd even be happy for some brain dead "account wide bonus" such as 10% increase to gathering speed, 5% increase in gold, etc. etc.

Same, I have a lot of spare mastery points and would be nice to have a use for them, I would like to have a crafting mastery that speeds up refining and crafting, to the speed of crafting lucks, also I would love a racial armor mastery, where you can then wear other races cultural armor.

I think you're describing what amounts to the Dark Side of horizontal progression. The upside is that e.g. gear remains valuable as the progression, er, progresses (compare any "gear ladder" MMORPG like WoW / SWTOR / etc.), and the downside is that, like today's gear in gear-ladder games, whatever it is (Mastery lines, etc.) in a horizontal-ladder game like GW2 will be obsolete and/or abandoned in tomorrow's content.

At least the Skimmer line got something new added, showing that it's possible to incorporate new stuff into existing lines. (If you think we won't find Skimmer Diving useful in EoD, ... um ...)

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:I think you're describing what amounts to the Dark Side of horizontal progression.

I see your point. Although the Dragon Response Mission masteries are basically just buffs to provide power creep in DRMs. If you max out the mastery line, you will be much more powerful than someone who has yet to begin the line. Considering the DRMs are considered group content, although they are soloable (maybe only with said maxed out masteries?), I hardly consider it true horizontal progression since it will indeed create an stat imbalance, although very isolated (thankfully). Maybe, I'm just not seeing this correctly or don't fully understand what horizontal progression is, but this seems like progression built with 300m of horizontal progression and 500km of vertical progression.

@"Vavume.8065" said:Same, I have a lot of spare mastery points and would be nice to have a use for them, I would like to have a crafting mastery that speeds up refining and crafting, to the speed of crafting lucks, also I would love a racial armor mastery, where you can then wear other races cultural armor.

Firstly, racial armor mastery sounds great! Too bad with the "factions" introduced in this last chapter that isn't one of the masteries included in the new mastery line. That would have been a great long term goal that I am sure many would be excited to grind.

To clarify my idea, you wouldn't technically need more mastery points, but you would find it more worth while to grind the XP and get mastery points to complete every track. My idea was more like taking the HoT Itzel Lore track and once you max it out (acquire Adrenal mushrooms mastery) you get a account-wide bonus that increases gathering speed by 5%. This is anything but competitive and provides QoL throughout the game. It makes sense because Itzel Lore deals with plants/mushrooms, etc. Completing the Exhalted Track also gives another 5% gathering speed, because it also deals with gathering (auric silvers, etc.). Nunoch Lore? Oh, mastered that last mastery in the line (Nunoch Alchemy), sweet 3% increase to gold from monsters, etc. I have a lot of these masteries still uncompleted because I really couldn't care less about something like "Challenge the Nuhoch champion in combat to earn the Nuhoch's respect and unlock a powerful cache of rewards.". Sounds pretty insignificant in a HUGE open world game in my opinon.

I have few negatives about PoF or LWS4 masteries (I think they are some of the best tracks outside of HoT gliding and the Core Tyria Pact Commander masteries) although I probably won't attempt to max out LWS4 masteries either because Bond of Faith seems pointless for what I assume is to only access some chests in Thunderhead Peaks? I dunno, but I am gonna save my points to unlock the underwater skimmer instead and probably won't bother farming achievements for more mastery points.

Basically I think mastering the last mastery in any line should offer a stackable bonus that provides quality of life and account wide increases that are already awarded in AP chests, or even through runes and gem store items. Some tracks were thought out well (gliding, mounts) where this isn't really necessary, but some tracks really need to be less underwhelming.

Edit: "negatives about HoT or..." -> "negatives about PoF or"

I haven't seen the new masteries yet, but in general I don't mind masteries being very specific because it makes them largely optional. Unless you want to do the specific areas of the game which need them it doesn't matter if you've got a particular mastery track trained up or not, so you can do it when it's convenient for you or skip it entirely if it's not something you're interested in. I think that's especially important for ones introduced in the living story because otherwise players who aren't able to get the episode during the release period will feel pressured to pay for it to get access to the mastery.

I suppose if it's something trivial like a tiny increase in gathering speed that avoids the problem of feeling like you need it to keep up with other players, but it's also pretty boring. I'd rather have things which are fun to use when you can (like the vine skill from Draconis Mons or bounce mushrooms) but only needed in areas you'll also be able to unlock the mastery than something which is useful everywhere but so trivial you'll probably forget you've got it.

(Also please no more unavoidable speed boosts, the one in cities is annoying enough, especially since it makes the Trolls Revenge jumping puzzle unnecessarily difficult.)

@Danikat.8537 said:I suppose if it's something trivial like a tiny increase in gathering speed that avoids the problem of feeling like you need it to keep up with other players, but it's also pretty boring. I'd rather have things which are fun...

Oh, me too! Don't get me wrong. I really hope future masteries will be more innovative and thought out. My suggestion is only for existing mastery tracks that seem to fall flat, and which seem to be increasing in recent releases. My suggestion for some current tracks is just a bandage for a bigger problem. The bigger problem is designing a track that is less boring in the future.

I don't mind masteries being very specific because it makes them largely optional.

I do also agree. I don't want to feel like I must max out all masteries, however, I would like to feel compelled a bit more to actually do it. Small boosts to gathering speed, crafting speed, karma gain, etc. is just a little extra nudge when there are very specific mastery lines (for content a player may not care about) and have no greater meaning within the Guild Wars 2 universe. By no means should a player think they must get that 5% gathering speed increase to experience the most that Guild Wars 2 has to offer, but it may make it at least a bit more tempting to players that do not plan to focus on content that is specific to the mastery.

...players who aren't able to get the episode during the release period will feel pressured to pay for it to get access to the mastery.I don't really see that as a bad thing. Content should have value that people are willing to pay for. If not...what is it? But, yes, I also think LW masteries should not be game changing like mount and gliding masteries in expansions.

Anyway, here's to a future of more exciting masteries (hopefully)!

Kinda how mastery's go. I mean your suggestion would force anyone to have to buy certain episodes right away so that's even worse. If 8m is a grind then you don't play much and all those masterys you saw won't be today. Those are 20 total and w 9 extra and only earning 4 from this episode for 13 it will be way less then 8m today

@"Jilora.9524" said:your suggestion would force anyone to have to buy certain episodes right away so that's even worse.

How? Please elaborate.5% gathering speed boost is nothing like a Skyscale. I'm sure LWS4 is one of the most purchased seasons for various reasons, but a big one being the Skyscale. Small convenience account boosts for maxing out a few content specific mastery lines will hardly force someone to buy anything to any degree that you may believe, but at least masteries will not just be thrown into the ever growing bin of abandoned content. But, I honestly do not understand the argument you are attempting to formulate, so feel free to make yourself more clear if you so desire.

Also, I don't get it. If people are not willing to see a value in purchasing LW seasons in the first place, isn't that just a testament to them being "worthless"?

If 8m is a grind then you don't play much and all those masterys you saw won't be today.I am certainly not a "hardcore" player. However, my point is not the grind per say, it is the MEANINGLESS grind. I would prefer the game to be designed without such masteries and just have engaging gameplay rather than some superficial system. I am not even going to go into the debate on how bad the new "super buff" mastery line in this new chapter completely invalidates support builds and dynamic group strategy.

Oh well. I guess my assumption that peoples' dissatisfaction with the direction of the mastery system was widespread in the community was incorrect. From responses so far, people seem alright with it. My mistake. So...good...I guess?