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What do you think of the new Living World: Champions? (spoilers inside) - [Merged]

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  • ron.6157ron.6157 Member ✭✭

    I Have Played GW & GW2 for ever some say to much total hours for both added up 30,000 but its time gate's crafting ok i get it but still is why i dis like crafting i do not have months to spend on one item per day and need 30 in order to make one other item i need 25 of but i get it then Dragon fall and the skyscale mount that time gate was not fun at all now LWS season 5 ep5 chapter 1 i do not get it have to RR the same 3 missions over n over trying to find out what you need to get to finish an ACH + some time gate to advance in the story not my ida of fun i have a job that pays my bills and its not GW or GW2 they are for me to unwind and injoy my self ill have to pass on all the last LWS5 stuff and just hope the new Xpack is not full of time gate KITTENS NO MORE TIME GATES PLEASE THEY RUIN THE GAME

  • Ogwom.7940Ogwom.7940 Member ✭✭✭

    They don't want players to blow through all the content on the first day. I honestly really don't know what is going to happen next week after the time gate... more story?
    This episode was a flop. We keep getting weapon sets, and this is the 3rd storm caller set we are getting which most people won't even get because of the huge gold sink when they all look the same and overly flashy.
    I just hope that the later masteries are not tied to Dragon Response Missions and are actually beneficial to all parts of PvE content, so that we get a sense of progression.

    So from what we got so far, I am not too hopeful of anything great in the next few days after the time gate. Just go about doing your normal stuff and then be pleasantly surprised if anything comes of it.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    I can understand time gating for new content to stretch out the play time (and if some of the materials are things bought off the trading post, it may help stabilize prices there because you don't have all the players putting in orders the first day).
    But once content has been out a few months, neither of these seem like big issues. Time gating is one of my biggest annoyances with GW2 - it would be simple for Anet to fix this, but they tend not to go back to old content to make adjustements.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2020

    So, the Crystal Forger mastery. "Defeating a dragon champion in a Dragon Response Mission grants additional materials while under the effect of a Dragon Boon."

    As far as I can tell, I get a few extra Prismaticite Crystals. Is that right, or am I missing something?

    Edit: Actually, on closer inspection, the crystals I thought were extra seem to have come from the Daily Dragon Responder achievement. I got exactly 3 materials after the champion kill and I'm pretty sure I used to get a few before completing that mastery. So, where's the extra? Am I getting 3 instead of 2 now? Not great.

  • blp.3489blp.3489 Member ✭✭✭

    Perhaps they drag on a little now so that later, when you have help from the factions, and maybe more powerful masteries, they won't be too short/easy? It would be a let down if the new masteries and factions didn't make it easier to kill them faster.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They need to make npcs get knocked out of the fight like braham or main npcs where they just dont att for a bit after defeated. These npc's just die over and over and you gotta rez them esp on bridge they just dead whole fight and you always got one party member rezzing them for w/e reason. Or make them invulnerable or something otherwise they just in the way in some of these instances

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2020

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    They need to make npcs get knocked out of the fight like braham or main npcs where they just dont att for a bit after defeated. These npc's just die over and over and you gotta rez them esp on bridge they just dead whole fight and you always got one party member rezzing them for w/e reason. Or make them invulnerable or something otherwise they just in the way in some of these instances

    I did find it frustrating how quickly NPCs died, though mostly because the field is then littered with ‘resurrect’ prompts while you’re fighting enemies and bosses. It’s certainly an issue when a party member is downed and you start resurrecting a dead villager because there are so many.

    Otherwise I enjoyed the story aspect and liked the reuse of old maps, but certain aspects felt frustrating. Like the endless knockdown effects, which really only serve to punish casual players who don’t get into organized groups.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jilora.9524 said:
    They need to make npcs get knocked out of the fight like braham or main npcs where they just dont att for a bit after defeated. These npc's just die over and over and you gotta rez them esp on bridge they just dead whole fight and you always got one party member rezzing them for w/e reason. Or make them invulnerable or something otherwise they just in the way in some of these instances

    usualy target them when trying to pick up banners.

  • The Narrative Arc, combined with the Bosses who violate the game's established rules, and the new achievements have led me to conclude that the 80 Gigabytes of storage drive space on my Hard Drive will be better spent empty. This entire season has been putting on full display Jormag's villainy and these Charr's complicity in it, only for this episode to treat me like a child who hasn't developed permanence yet.

    The very first thing we're told, is that we're allies with Jormag now because Primordus is just too big of a threat despite no evidence of it, only for them to never contribute to our fights through out the chapter. When Taimi tells Braham to shut up and trust the plan, I blew a blood vessel in my eye, and shouted out in disgust. This is the garbage being shoved in our faces right now. Right now. The Writers in a single off-handed line made me defend the worst solitary character in their storyline, Bro-hamhead, on a basis of principle. The Man who was given an unironic failed Batman story arc.

    The parallels to current events and their take on them is childish and disgusting. I was gritting and bearing my teeth hoping Cantha would deliver me back to enjoying this game and its narrative, but this is one step too far. Good bye, so long, auf weidersehen, adios, au revoir, 再见.

  • Anet will probably not read all these threads, but I am not to excited about the latest update. I am okay that we didnt get a new map (i like drizzlewood and the mechanic and loot), but the response missions are boring... Bosses with way to much HP and the endless grind to get the achievements (doing the 3 missions with all challenges active, not once but i thought 10 times... cmon...)
    And I heard 9 more of this boring content is coming....
    That will be a problem for me as O have the need to get the achiements..

    Please fix these boring response missions and make the next one better with less tedious achievements.

  • Hello,
    I have to say the newest living story is really bad

    • Boring grind missions with bosses with to much hp.. just spamming skills
    • repeating achievements so have to do grind over and over. I thought yes, challenges done, but we have to do this multiple times.. pfff
      • people get on edge of map and kicked out and cant join
      • cant make a normal lfg to let them join in private match. you get in squad mode.... whats up with the lfg??

    And i heard we get 9 more of these missions? I prefer rather not.. As someone who wants to get achievements and also wants to follow the story this will be a real pain...
    I am really afraid of the next patch.

  • Story ok, but the missions are terrible. Whereas before we've had map-wide metas that have been cornerstone to Guild Wars 2 nature with big fights, now we're being split into small units of 5 players, and in the public instance you're not even grouped up so lacking that dynamic.

    And the private squad... well, fix the LFG for starters... The "Champions" section under LS: Icebrood Saga a "Squad" type so if you try to make a Party there for DRMs (because obviously, why else would you group up for Champions seeing as there's no story instance nor new map to join each other in??) then you get a squad and you cannot enter the private instance mode of the DRM.

    So after a while you manage to put your group together (hint: Central Tyria - Parties) and then you enter these bland missions that

    a) isn't fun, takes too long and feel unrewarding
    b) aren't fun because you repeatedly punch a sponge for ages only to whittle away its HP, only to be swarmed by trash mobs when you've in addition got a barrage of nukes/meteors, stuff erupting from fissures plus the winged destroyers who carpet-bomb the area. Maybe it's a scaling issue but when these are intermission phases to a boss fight who hardly takes dmg, well...
    c) just makes me shudder if this is what we're getting moving forward, circling back to the opening argument of being stuck into 5-man instances with no sense of party... token collection hysteria from rinse & repeat 3 more or less identical missions that more or less make me want just shut down the game and watch a wall instead.

    And the new masteries are time-gated behind some sort of mechanism - to do with the community-wide achievement? Or is it just time-based? Or is it based on completing the achievements of the DRM CMs? Which of course would be silly, because then we're back to arguments a - c as to why I'm not about to play those again right now.

    Northerner @ Dragon Season
    Seafarer's Rest since launch!

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dutchdevil.6902 said:
    Hello,
    I have to say the newest living story is really bad

    • Boring grind missions with bosses with to much hp.. just spamming skills
    • repeating achievements so have to do grind over and over. I thought yes, challenges done, but we have to do this multiple times.. pfff
      • people get on edge of map and kicked out and cant join
      • cant make a normal lfg to let them join in private match. you get in squad mode.... whats up with the lfg??

    And i heard we get 9 more of these missions? I prefer rather not.. As someone who wants to get achievements and also wants to follow the story this will be a real pain...
    I am really afraid of the next patch.

    I believe the 9 missions are apart of this patch and are released every 6 days, if what I’ve been reading is true...

  • @Manasa Devi.7958 said:
    What do I think? It's all a bit boring, just those 3 near identical missions. I won't be contributing much to advance the progress bar. Here's hoping the next few weeks will be adding some more interesting and substantial stuff.

    But this was it though, wasn't it? Next up now will be Wintersday in December and next part of Champions isn't coming until January?

    Northerner @ Dragon Season
    Seafarer's Rest since launch!

  • Incar.7358Incar.7358 Member ✭✭✭

    Personally, I was hoping we might start using up some of those stand-in portals (i.e Lionshead Outcrops), even if only for small instanced areas.
    Content felt a little lackluster however, I am still curious to see where the story goes, and by the looks of it we'll have more sooner than later.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2020

    Need to fix the afk hiders. Found one hidden in building /away. Need to kick if they don't meet up w taimi or the next part. I mean I left and told others to leave and only wasted 5m but still some bs pos players there. Obviously thats in public and until the lfg fix that seems easier

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dondarrion.2748 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:
    What do I think? It's all a bit boring, just those 3 near identical missions. I won't be contributing much to advance the progress bar. Here's hoping the next few weeks will be adding some more interesting and substantial stuff.

    But this was it though, wasn't it? Next up now will be Wintersday in December and next part of Champions isn't coming until January?

    It has been stated by the devs they will add more content between the ‘chapters’ of Champions. So we should get more additions and updates to this story content between now and Chapter 2 in January. It probably won’t be anything MAJOR, but they’re doing a steady/staggered release of content for Champions.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2020

    Pretty much what I was expecting and I am scratching my head as to how most players here expected more or less, because even the most basic analysis of past content releases would have prepared one for this. My reasoning so far has been as follows:

    a.) we've seen an unprecedented focus on living world content with nearly no support for other game modes or more difficult content. The random fractal drop was a nice touch, but we can hardly speak of supported instanced content by now. The irony here: the new "difficult" content is not even bare bones difficult for competent players, yet still to difficult for the average pleb open world player (no disrespect, everyone can enjoy the game how they want, but the average player here just as in most MMOs is beyond kitten skill wise)

    b.) it has become clear that quantity was added instead of quality. By that I mean quantity in the grind which was added for achievements and "busywork". This has been evident in nearly the entire Saga by now, bar the first episode. The fault here lies with the mixed signals of the player base tbh. If the achievements are to easy/fast/complete able, the forums light up like a christmas tree over lack of content. If they are to grindy, same thing just the other way around. My personal assumption here is: the metrics show that grindy stuff keeps many players engaged longer overall, so that's what the developers are running with.

    c.) the moment the last date for a big balance patch passed by without that balance patch happening made it very clear to me that those resources are being spent else where. There is no point in huge balance patches, mind you even IF the resources where there, when new elite specializations are being developed and to be released. Without going into unofficial confirmations about new elites being in the works, I would not hold my breath on any major balance reworks until shortly before the expansion or MAYBE right in the middle between now and the expansion launch, so around early next year (if at all).

    d.) doing some simple research on past expansions and seasons, time frames for their development, the release schedules around those expansions and content drops, one can extrapolate just how much content one can expect. For example:

    • Living World Season 2 episode 8 released on January 15, 2015. HoT launched on October 25, 2015. That's 8 1/2 months of no PvE content pre expansion launch
    • HoT launched on Oktober 25, 2015. Season 3 episode 1 released on July 26, 2016. That's 9 months of no "new" PvE content (the studio was working on fixing HoT content mostly) post expansion launch
    • PoF was a far smaller expansion than HoT and this was also noticed in the far more fluent transition of Living World season 3 into PoF into Living World Season 4. At the same time, development time for episodes increased and lead to even some "unfinished" episodes like a Bug in the System which clearly saw content cut. So again, the more fluent release cadence came at a cost of other features.

    We have had a very steady release schedule this Saga, in most cases faster or at a similar fast speed of past seasons. With an expansion in the works for the majority of time in the back ground with now minor content updates to bridge the otherwise resulting gap, as was done pre and post HoT. That is all on the back of a studio which laid off staff, is working through a pandemic AND has been fighting declining revenue and increasing age of the game.

    It's pretty clear that more and more open world teams are likely shifting over into expansion mode as they finish their current living world season content. My guess is that the Dragon Response Missions as we see them right now are a filler and farm/grind release to give players something to do with some big Saga finale being worked on which will lead into the next expansion.

    Given all this, I am rather surprised with the quality of the Dragon Response Missions. To me they feel a bit like a mix of Living World Season 1 and Season 2 mixed together, and we know how loud some players have been asking for Season 1 similar content. Well here you have it.

    TL;DR:
    Far to many players are wearing their rose tinted glasses without actually looking up how things were in the past (in this case development wise). Only to then extrapolate expectations based on these rose colored memories of fairies and fantasies and the good old times, to then be disappointed when reality sets in. Reality in this case is: the studio always has had a fixed amount of developers which are able to produce a set amount of content and no wishful thinking (or expecting) will increase this.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2020

    I like the idea of what they're going for with the missions, I just think it needs some massive improvements. The final bosses feel like damage sponges and overall they just feel kind of long compared to what you get out of it. That being said I haven't done them after the hotfix that "fixed" boss health.

    Also, the Crystal Bloom support metric isn't very clear: I think I've only seen my individual contribution go up for the first achievement buying the karma, even though i bought other things with the support item. Like they need to make it way more clear to the community what they should be buying to hit the benchmarks.

    For the most part I've liked IB content but haven't had time for it as I've been pushing leggies.

  • @Svennis.3852 said:

    @Dondarrion.2748 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:
    What do I think? It's all a bit boring, just those 3 near identical missions. I won't be contributing much to advance the progress bar. Here's hoping the next few weeks will be adding some more interesting and substantial stuff.

    But this was it though, wasn't it? Next up now will be Wintersday in December and next part of Champions isn't coming until January?

    It has been stated by the devs they will add more content between the ‘chapters’ of Champions. So we should get more additions and updates to this story content between now and Chapter 2 in January. It probably won’t be anything MAJOR, but they’re doing a steady/staggered release of content for Champions.

    Ah, that's good to know. If that includes the 7 remaining DRMs then hopefully they can fix those before they release those, because this first batch of three really did not impress.

    Northerner @ Dragon Season
    Seafarer's Rest since launch!

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @coso.9173 said:
    I wonder though. if this is an episode split into 4 chapters, what are these weekly updates?
    so we have a story (living world) divided into seasons (season 5 icebrood saga) divided into episodes (episode 5: champions) divided into chapters (truce) and divided into what now? paragraphs? XD

    Just wait til we get Season 5. episode 5, Chapter 2, Paragraph 3, Sub section 4

    Sub section 4 is only available after you have unlocked it with item 27B/6.

    https://www.gw2gh.com/ - A GW2-Guild-Hall.
    Register and check your guild leaderboard to see who is the best in your guild and who finished achievements first.

  • I'm looking at this as them stretching out a single Living World episode over the span of several months because they don't have enough staff to deliver regular Living World episodes between now and the start of EoD. Like they didn't really have any options if they wanted to keep to a schedule other than possibly waiting on releasing the final Living World episode 4-6 months down the line.

    I'm not going to say it's comparable to a Living World episode because it's absolutely not. But it's better than nothing.

    That said, I think some of the systems could have been better explained, like the Mobilizing Allies global or the Dragon Mastery crystals for unlocking the mastery trees and how they're not all going to be available right away or something. I've had to answer questions in EotN with pure speculation and I hate doing that.

    I also feel like there should have been more to the DRMs. Not saying "only releasing three" is bad, that's fine if we're playing the long game with Champions and more will get released as we go. What I am saying is that, as far as the content IN the DRMs, I feel like the challenges for Challenge Mode are kind of bland. Something that might have made things more interesting would be, like how Steel and Fire was handled. Because it feels like DRMs are a step backward from what we got with Steel and Fire. Taking Metrica Province as an example, we could have had side objectives with, say... Braham sensing more destroyers in an off-the-beaten-path area and you have to beat up a bunch of destroyers to "Rank Up" and get better rewards, or maybe separatists taking advantage of the chaos in Gendarran Fields, or a giant wurm miniboss spawns and starts wreaking havoc. Just... something like that.

    I think, if we want to have good solid content in DRMs, the developers of this content could definitely take some notes from what they accomplished in Steel and Fire.

    • Story was ok. Looking forward to what comes next.
    • Dialogue was mediocre. The overwrought Jhavi vs. Marjory kitten-fest was tiresome. Braham...well, anything with Braham inevitably pegs the emo scale. I don't know why the writer's hate him so much that they have mutilated his personality. Also, too many words. Tension and drama aren't created with words; they are created in the spaces in-between.
    • Confusing non-ending (hiatus?) that left most of us scratching our heads, even thinking that maybe the next quest step was bugged.

    Response missions:

    • A nice change of pace from strike missions. Kudos.
    • Feel much more accessible to the general population.
    • A tad tedious in length, and repetitive in mob types.
    • In the first playthrough I was annoyed that much of the NPC dialogue occurred while moving and during combat, often making it difficult to hear or follow the conversation. But, repeating the missions, I am grateful that the NPCs aren't stopping to chit-chat before moving on - that would have quickly become tedious if one is repeating these daily.
    • Yes, it is a reuse of existing assets, but since the story occurs in the existing world, it seems inevitable that such reuse occurs. Also, this keeps the content from feeling like yet another siloed, disconnected, pointless strike mission which is irrelevant to the story events.

    Issues like LFG party vs. squad need to be ironed out, but since it is likely that more response missions are coming, I'm sure that is being looked at now.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet you need to ninja patch speed up that t1-t5 counter. Either you greatly overestimated how many would play this content or failed to realize we can't farm these tokens. We are limited per day not like the fractal rush where we could grind all day if we wanted. Either that or players are hoarding these like a dragon instead of trading them in

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As the old saying goes: "you get what you pay for." LW is free of charge to us playing actively, but for the first time I feel we literally got what we paid for - nothing of value. As OP said, I came into this with very low expectations, and ANet somehow found a way to get even lower.

    All of that is, however.... oddly okay for me at this stage. While Champions thus far did make me question (for the first time ever) whether or not I'd buy an xpac, just a bit of objective thinking reassured me that EoD will likely be of much higher quality than Saga in general, and Champions in particular. I'll still buy it early, if there is any benefit for doing so.

    The one thing that would give me long-term concerns about the quality of the game is if we found out that IBS was initially planned with a more coherent story, but due to lack of confidence/staffing changes/whatever began to take all the ridiculous turns it has so far. To me, I would feel much more reassured that IBS was always intended to turn out this way (start with norn, then totally ignore them and go to charr, add in charr family drama, then... Primordus... because Primordus). Even if I think it's garbage, at least it was pre-planned, and it would just be a case of me not happening to like something. If it either (1) wasn't even planned out this far, or (2) turned into this frankenstein mess because ANet couldn't stick to and execute a vision, then I would have serious concerns about ANet's structural ability to deliver story and gameplay.

  • I don't understand why ArenaNet gets an idea in their heads and then insists we play it and like it. What if I don't enjoy strike missions? Too bad! You have to do them if you want to continue the story. What story??? There was no story. Ryland blah blah blah, Ryland blah blah, blah blah blah. Ugh. I am extremely disappointed in this episode, especially after Drizzlewood. Drizzlewood had good story that moved along, and then a fun replayable meta thereafter. Not so this piece of junk. I'm really disappointed in you, ArenaNet.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2020

    It doesn't seem like there's much "story" to it and the chosen delivery method is terrible as replayable content. You really want us to do these things daily when it forces us to waste most of the time doing boring events and killing trash mobs in between segments of listening to the same NPC dialogue? Then you cap it off with boring, uninspired bosses?

    I guess my question is why is this better than an actual story episode with a new map? For me, every episode of Icebrood Saga has been worse than the previous! Your old delivery method of a single map with an actual story episode was better than the experimentation you've done with 1 map per 2 episodes (Drizzlewood was an AWFUL idea with that ridiculously long meta because of this choice!). This Saga hasn't been good since the prologue with Grothmar Valley (which was a good story episode with a cool map that has the kind of personality I expect from you guys!).

    All I can say is that EoD better be good because Icebrood Saga is a big fail for me so far and this latest episode has me barely wanting to play.

    Edit: Honorable mention to Bjora part 1, actually. That Raven Sanctum stuff was pretty cool and I didn't get annoyed with the story until Bjora 2 dropped.

  • ron.6157ron.6157 Member ✭✭

    my take on all of this this story line has been great blended well from scarlet threw HOT and POF we lost great NPC's some Shed tears now we come to the end the last few chapters and one wild fight but chapter one so far is lacking not a fan of time gates hence why i do not craft this chapter to me was placed in front of a sand blaster filled with Dimond Dust to give it luster but was left to long and is now looks like a dull pit filled mirror that can never be fixed nice way to end a epic story
    hope the last few chapters do not lack the luster and if this is how game play in the new Xpack will be then i wont be sadly i have played GW from the start some 15 years and 30'000 hours invested hope i dont need to find some thing new

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2020

    Before starting, yes, I know some posts have been made about it to whatever discuss theories, debating about the stranges dialogues or future possible plots...
    But I usual, since there isn't any feedback thread anymore; I'm gonna make one for that one, like I did for many other episodes.
    For once, I'm gonna treat it by instances. There isn't a lot of them so.. and it's pretty fast.

    Will be M O R E - S H A R P - A N G R Y than my post about missions. Cause I want to pass a message. So I say it directly here:
    I'm indicating by (+) or (-) near the story step if it's good or not.
    3 (+), 4 (-). But really, II and III is the biggest issue to me. (Primordius rising, Rata Sum)

    THIS POST IS MADE FOR GW2 DEVS, WRITERS, MAP DESIGNER, ANET, and not theorycrafters players. You can reply if you want of course, of give your opinion; but know it isn't directed to the playerbase, but ofc you can reply.

    By advance, sorry for the eye burning caps. And yes, caps = angry. Not shouting. (Btw at the very end there is congratulations to MUSIC COMPOSERS/ENGINEERS, ARTISTS) And I pray you to read until the end before debating. THIS IS CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK, don't close yourself like a shell and ignore anything in the following:


    I. Primordius Rising (EOTN) (+)

    It starts in EoTN, Rytlock and Braham start talking about clearing the last of dominons, and seeking for answers regarding the earthquakes. Then Jormag speaks through bangar, to tell that Aurene have to reach her potential and end Primordius. But Aurene answer it's not its role, that the balance can still be maintained. After that, Taimi, which already have answer to anything like usual ask us to join her in Rata Sum.

    Not really anything to say about that first instance, it's a logical suite to the previous events. And jormag saying primordius will lay waste is just kitten to convince us. Like "reaching your potential" is the kitten to convince Aurene. Jormag just want to kill primordius and play with us. Let's see the second instance...

    SO YAHOO. POSITIVE POINTS HERE.


    II. Primordius Rising (RS) (-)

    Here i need to quote the whole discussion on the main plaza, I put on side the dialogue of Gorrik waiting for a delivery on the docks which one sounded interesting (will speak about it later).

    Rytlock: "Tell me I'm not seeing Frost Legion."
    Gorrik: "Apparently the Arcane Council invited them. And Ryland."
    Rytlock: "WHAT?"
    Me: "You could've led with that Gorrik."
    Councillor Ludo: "Ah, the pact commander. Welcome. I presume you've come to hear Taimi's findings as well?"
    Me: "You have any idea who you've let in here? What's he's done?
    Councillor Ludo: "Ryland Steelcatcher, champion of Jormag. He commands the ice dragon forces." /PONDER
    Rytlock: "We've been looking everywhere for you."
    Councillor Vark: "Rata Sum is no charr battlefield. What's done is done, Commander" /CHEER HE HAS A BRAIN, TELL RYLAND TO GO AWAY
    Councillor Ludo: "The Arcane Council deals in the present and in the future. Jormag is awake--" /DOUBT
    Braham: "Yeah, because of him."
    Councillor Ludo: "Which means primordius will not be far behind"
    Councillor Vark: "Facing a common enemy, alliance is logical. I'd would think the Pact commander would recognize the vallue of this arrangement." /FACEPALM
    Me: "You would think."
    Ryland steelcatcher: "The asura have studied have studied Primordius for ages. Foolish not to seek their knowledge. And Jormag's no fool." /FACEPALM THROW HIM IN JAIL ALREADY!
    Rytlock Brimstone: "Sure, as Elder Dragons go, Jormag's pretty reasonable." /LAUGH
    *The rest will be cut, because it go even deeper in stupidity.

    There is so so so much wrong there, like, what the writers seen or thought before doing that episode, but their minds were not here. Don't they have consulted the previous established facts? Are they even forgotten even the most basic things?
    Positive points are that Braham and Rytlock have a brain compared to others. Dunno if happening in open world is a pro... (players staying on the npcs...)

    1-THERE ISN'T ANY COUNCILLOR CALLED VARK. THE CLOSEST NAME IS YAHK AND HE IS THE REPRESENTANT OF INQUEST, AND THEREFORE WEAR A RED-BLACK-WHITE ARMOR AND NOT PINKISH CRYSTALS WITH YELLOW. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Council

    2-ARCANE EYE DON'T DEAL WITH THE PRESENT AND FUTURE AND TRY BY ANY MEAN TO HIDE TO CITIZENS EXISTENCE OF DRAGONS AND THEIR MINIONS, THERE IS NO SENSE IN LETTING ANY DRAGON CORRUPTED CHARACTER OR MINIONS IN THE CITY. THEY EVEN TRIED TO SUPRESS PROFESSOR GORR

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rakt_and_Ruin
    "Zojja: You won't get away with this. We'll tell the world. We'll distribute Gorr's research. We'll—"
    "Councillor Flax: You'll make a lot of shrill noise, as always. And as always, no one will listen or care. You're wasting the Council's time. This audience is over."

    3-IT ISN'T THE ASURA WHICH HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT PRIMORDIUS, BUT THE INQUEST, THE OLDEST ORGANIZATION THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED WHEN THE ASURA WAS CHASED FROM THEIR UNDERGROUND HOMES BY PRIMORDIUS. ONLY THEM HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE, AND YES, INQUEST ALREADY EXISTED IN RATA NOVAN SOCIETY SO THE HIDDEN RATA NOVUS LAB IS SURELY FROM INQUEST BEFORE THEY LIKED PUTTING EVERYTHING IN RED

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inquest -> Gave a destroyer specimen to dredge. Studied zhaithan, mordry, and primordy "Sbubble too", jormag in the crucible. Studied kralky in rata primus. Successfully harnessed in golem their essences; created devices to control them, discovering a new mean of communication with kralkatorrik hive mine ability. Technically they could create an army of minions only for them, right now. No need to ask anyone to defend themselves.

    4-GORRIK SHOULD HAVE ASSASSINS ON ITS BACK. NO DEFECTORS ARE ALLOWED -Wiki again

    "The Inquest runs a very tight ship—once an asura joins it, they are expected to be members for life. The organization believes that everything their members learn is proprietary knowledge, and the Inquest thus have the right to reach into the members' brain and take it out, if they so choose.[5]
    The Inquest has taken extreme steps to punish or reclaim those who try to defect from the organization. The agents are especially tough on those who try to get out if those people have valuable or incriminating information which the Inquest wants to keep to themselves."

    5-IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT PRIMORDIUS DATA WILL BE GIVEN TO JORMAG, BECAUSE OF POINT 3, EVEN KILLED, NO INFOS IS RETRIEVED FROM THEM, SURELY SENT TO A BIG TOP SECRET HIDDEN DATA CENTER. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Charge. No data available, self destruction protocol if breach.

    6-AN ALLIANCE ISN'T LOGICAL, ESPECIALLY WITH A CHARACTER WHO CAUSED GENOCIDE OF CHARRS. ALSO THE ASURA FEELS SO MUCH SUPERIOR THAT THEY WOULD STAY AND FIGHT ALONE INSTEAD OF SEEKING FOR AN ALLIANCE AND EVENTUALLY DIE ALONE. ESPECIALLY ABOUT ALL THE EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE: EXTERMINATOR, PHALANKS, BALLISTAS, CENTURIONS, SUITS, LASER CANNONS, FORCE FIELDS, PROXIMITY SENSORS, RATA NOVANS GOLEMS. NO REASONS THE ARCANE COUNCIL CHANGED FROM THEIR ANCESTORS HOLDING THE LINE AND SEEING NO THREATS AND BEING PASSIVE.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/That_Old_College_Try
    "Their Arcane Council assumed it was simply a matter of time before the destroyers were annihilated by asuran skill and acumen. It was hubris that caused the downfall of their underground civilization; thousands of years to build, but only a handful of moments to vanish in the wake of the Elder Dragon's power. "

    7-THE ARCANE COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE OUTSIDE OF THEIR ROOM, WITHOUT PROTECTION?!!! THEY HAVE NORMALLY 9 GOLEMS, 2 PEACEMAKER OFFICIERS TO GUARD THEM. WELL APART YAHK, A GUY WITH A BRAIN THAT A PERSONNAL GOLEM AND 2 INQUEST PERSONNAL GUARDS. AND WELL, PHLUNT SECRETARY GOLEM. RYLAND COULD LITERALLY DO A SWITFT DAGGER MOVE AND CUT ALL THEIR THROATS IN A SECOND. ILLOGICAL, AGAIN. BECAUSE NOTHING HERE. NOT EVEN GUARDS.

    **8-THE NON CONSISTENT STORY. IT HAS BEEN SAID AND RE SAID THAT KILLING DRAGONS IS BAD AND NOW EVERYONE IS YIPEE LET'S KILL THEM ALL, ALL HAIL JORMAG, ALL KILL PRIMORDIUS... WHAT A MESS.

    Will return to that point later in the next instance. And well, no additionnal dialogue, no talk options, feel rushed and very bad story/dialogues.


    III. Primordius Rising (RS, GORR LAB) (-)

    It starts with taimi, openly giving informations whereas JORMAG is literally behind her.... and see through it's minions eyes... even the spots of where to go... /BIG FACEPALM
    As expected, destroyers attacks; and the three councillors do nothing, standing up, not attacking. Better having put a squad of peacemakers.
    The instance without any npcs to guard the entrances of taimi speech room. Again... since gorr incident it would have been expected that space to be a kind of Arcan Eye headquarters ? cause frankly; the map has a poi "Arcane eye department" but there is nothing to be found here. Better swapping now the POI "Arcane eye dpt" and "Advanced Metamystics lab".

    Again, no additionnal dialogue, no talk options... even if it's a rush, we could hear about opinions about what just happened... the instance is so empty of allies...


    IV. Primordius Rising (RS, PORT AUTHORITY) (-)

    So we arrive and see essentially cadavers of asura. Only one big golem fighting. And somehow, frost legions soldier whereas we slaughtered them in jormag rising, and after braham and rytlock continued to kill dominions... LOL
    Rytlock: "The hell are you doing?"
    Ryland: "Don't need your permission. Clean this up!"
    So basically they are in conquered land? What more BS will happens? Thanks for showing asura as incompetents and not able to defend themselves will remember that.
    The inquest in the dock storage room somehow disapeared... WHUT. I mean, WHUT?!

    Look at this, really just so empty again, and just foes no allies even here!!! (NO, ICEBROOD AREN'T ALLIES)
    Only positive point, rytlock has a brain.

    And sadly, STILL NO TALK OPTIONS OR ADDITIONNAL DIALOGUES....
    And me thanking Ryland foe having my back.... REALLY DARN IT, I BETTER HAVE STAYED IN MY DIVINITY REACH INN INSTEAD OF THAT WHOLE THING.
    At least, rytlock and braham are still sane and consistent, still pointing wth are ryland and jormag forces here. And Taimi... well she officialy lost her mind and the council too.
    Councillors still doing nothing watching us fight.

    Just no living allies, feel like a very cheap version, only dead everywhere.... Here is a little screen, edited by my cares, for a better version of that instance:
    (Before having InQuESt AreN'T aLlieS ToO!, we have already gorrik... we had R3D-RCR... seeing gorrik would motivate any inquest around to fight with us. (without speaking of YAHK))


    V. Tidings and Misgivings (EOTN) (+)

    Aurene just concluding that jormag wants to kill primordius. And us thinking what would happens after jormag kills it... I tell you, Jormag will kill us if we kill primordius. Both have to be killed, and we should already suppress Ryland an dismantle its soldiers, recover braham bow and kill jojormag. Then only, since no more whispering, we kill or not primordius. It cannot be allowed to play along jormag and letting it corrupts everyone when arriving and whispers through every map. We just anhilated drizzlewood and destroyed the machines and they are already back... what have rytlock and braham cleared? It is pointing already known facts... why since jormag rising we are just sitting, instead of killing ryland....

    Okay story step, but well don't see the point. BUT HEY, SECOND POSITIVE POINT!


    VI. Defending Tyria (+)

    Well, the missions remind me an heart quest of core tyria, with an escort with a final boss that is kinda a world boss (well, less stunning) I can't really criticize, and the main cons, is the mechanics like not having gold (full) rewards in public. But I liked them. So, POSITIVE POINT.

    VII. Calm in the storm. (-)

    Phlunt dialogue in eye of the north is more than disturbing.
    "Your research may end up giving Jormag an advantage." -> Your critique is both obvious and Unnecessary. EXCUSE ME WHAT?!! PHLUNT YOU ARE HERE OR NOT?!!!
    FOR A OLD GRUMPY DUDE THAT KEEP EVERYTHING FOR ITSELF AND WANT TO ATTRIBUTE MERIT ABOUT ANYTHING, YOU ARE SAYING TO BE OK WITH GIVING INFOS THO THE FIRST DRAGON MINION YOU MET?! W H A T? SKRITTSHIT! IT IS THE ONE THAT THINK A LOT AND HE IS LIKE OKAY? O_O WAKE UP WRITERS.

    -Like many other asura, he is arrogant beyond his worth and thinks highly of himself. He sees himself, and his research, above all others though has recently begun to see potential in Taimi.
    WIKI. For ETERNALY ALCHEMY SAKE, WAKE THE FRICK UP. HE - CONSIDERS - ITSELF - ABOVE - A L L - O T H E R S he don't care at all about dragons, he is an ambassador for others races, not for dragons minions.

    "These destroyers seems to be free of Zhaithan's or Mordremoth's magic." -> An astute observation. Primordius slumber may have allowed it time to process the foreign magic__or alter itself to accomodate it. We don't really know at this point.
    AND I DON'T FRICKING KNOW TOO! WHAT THAT kitten EXCUSES YOU'VE PUT?!!! N O - I T - C A N ' T - A D D A P T - TO - SUPPORT - IT. DO I HAVE TO REMIND YOUR WRITERS ABOUT https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Subject_Alpha, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Simulacrum_of_Subject_Beta, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kudu's_Monster, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vine-Touched_Destroyer, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rotting_Destroyer. IT JUST FEEL LIKE A LINE ADDED LAST MINUTE BECAUSE YOU FORGOT ABOUT THOSE, REALLY YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!!


    VIII: The future?? ( + / - )
    Welp, not gonna lie, but I'm totally against going toward the path of Jormag is life, Jormag is love, kill primordius and get frozen. Really, Aurene, just brain wash the asura, taimi, braham, phlunt, the arcan council and let's restart with good base and returning slaughtering jormag servants.

    Now food for thought... Here what I expect to see:


    Attack on Rata Sum. Breachmaker alarm around the whole cube, lava rose from the depths to fill the useless golem mines which now have the purpose of bringing destroyers in the core of the city. Golemic divisions are deployed all around. Peacemakers starts making barricades and all forcefields gates are activated. Goal? Primordius want to erase any data of itself in the city and reducing asura forces.


    Will this scene happens, or are the artists way far more talented than story and events coders again? Rata Novus story instance also had a beautiful loading screen, and it was a disapointment. But most importantly, will those thin golems appear? REALLY FOR ETERNAL ALCHEMY SAKE, IT HAS BEEN 8 YEARS, CAN'T NEW GOLEMS TYPE BE ADDED? Mark III if you want... sadly I think that scene will not happens and that why I made the scene just above that one.


    TLDR: NOT ENOUGH NPCS AND ADDITIONNAL DIALOGUES THROUGH "Talk" option to npcs. THE INSTANCES ARE SO INCREDIBLY EMPTY.... WOW W-O-W and the story have been written by a skritt in a rush. If it can't help you, here is my triangle thingy and the points you haven't respected:


    Story= Well there is a story. Primordius is awake. It causes havocs all around tyria. And we need to act about that.
    Quests= We have things to do, listening to Taimi speech, going in Rata Sum, saving peoples in different maps through the dragon response missions.
    Events=There is events: mostly eliminating destroyers, but also saving citizens in missions or investigating origin of the destroyers.
    Meta= There isn't any by event chains, nor world bosses... so NOPE. No feel of real progression toward a clear goal after all the story steps.
    Factions= Half are missing. No skritts nor nightmare court around skrittbourgh in brisban mission. No Centaurs nor pirates in gandarran mission. No rata novan golems nor inquest in metrica mission. Inquest isn't here in Rata sum mission whereas they are present in the port of rata sum outside of the story instance... so NOPE.
    Environmenets= As said before, factions are missing. The environment is okay/rich for missions globally. Apart the BIG NEGATIVE FACT THERE ISN'T ANY VIGIL/WHISPERS/PRIORY FORCES FIGHTING. Also, the story instances are too empty. And so, NOPE.
    Achievement= The missions are boring quite rapidly and not rewarding, even the bosses strikes award more rewards (Kodans, fraenir... ). Also no feels of achievment after completing the story, having useless npcs behind not fighting and dead bodies all around the story instance don't help with that. No impressive fights or mechanics too....

    Word of the end. Anyway, If no efforts gonna be made; I will be leaving during chapter 2 of champions. And this is frankly the worst story release I ever seen. Is the expansion driving away so much of the team at a point nothing is left to make the living world story instances? For I, and i don't know about others players, be more than happy to give advice about how to make a good story instance involving asura or primordius or inquest or dragon minions. REALLY, BECAUSE IT SEEMS YOU NEED ADVICES. AT A POINT THAT NOW? EVEN ORGANIZING A CONTEST FOR THE NEXT STORY STEP OR MAP WOULD WORTH IT.

    For the pros now: I'm gonna make a huge clapping, and cheerful congratulations to music composers and graphic artists. Really, you do an awesoe job: Very liveful and amazing musics and loading screen arts or concept art in general. And I'm sad that your arts/themes don't really reflect on the gameplays and mechanics.

    So that may be my very last episode feedback. And I let you maybe, learn of that fiasco and make yourselves better. Praise the eternal Alchemy.
    I think, that destroying Rata Sum may help reconsider the area and using the useless valleys around. But I like the cube too...
    I just hope that after that attack, asura will realise that their city isn't well defended and will use the valley around to create lighting cannons operating platforms, warehouses, more houses outside of the cube and paths.

    And I let everyone with that final "Art/drawing" I made. And will return doing fan - writings or theories. I will post another post, I don't really know when, where I will give a rate to every map existing currently. It just take time because I'm applying the things I evoked in my other post with the "MAP TRIANGLE".
    As usual, just a reminding, you can find all my main ideas and projects under that post, in my signature. Shiny clickable links in red. (BTW there is an expansion concept treating of primordius and asura, just saying.) Here, some ideas for new destroyers or golems.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2020

    There is a feedback thread that's been up since Tuesday
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118477/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-living-world-champions-spoilers-inside#latest

    I think the problems are stemming from multiple sources

    • the expansion is clearly the new priority and IBS has been changed, abandoned or whatever. There is evidence a lot of this was already planned out from early dev comments, but it seemd to have been squeezed down a lot to get to what we are presented with. Living World has always been more demanding than it needed to be and I don't think they've ever been comfortable with any method of presenting it. And now we have a Season which is a bit of a mess.
    • I don't think anything on the forums guides the dev process for Living World. I'm not even sure how much they read of our feedbck given that Reddit and Discord are more popular hang outs. Whether the feedback there is any different I couldn't say
    • The team who gave GW2 life and vision has either changed or has gone. This is a new vision for the game and often are repeating lessons which failed the first time round in LS1 or are trying to get through IBS so they make their own stamp with EoD and beyond.

    It's difficult to fully judge this Champions release since we aren't seeing all of it and there's a lot more to come. The early start is just somewhat dull, not well thought out in terms of how parties form and lacking in guidance and communication about how this all works. Many have said it before, but the devs need to stop shying away from their community. MMO's work when devs and communities are in at least some harmony. Not everyone, but certainly in greater accord than we see here. If the devs tell us how the CHapter works in a bit more detail and explain how/when the next delivery will come, it will remove a lot of problems.

    I like the story so far (unusually given most LS story stuff is very poor) and the dialogue at least hangs together well enough for what they are presenting. There's some issues in the lack of acknolwedging that Dragons aren't supposed to be killed off, but there's some good stuff in there as well. I was abjectively against a truce with Jormag because it flies against what we already have been fed for the last year, but actually they did an OK job of presenting both sides of the argument for it. It's clearly going to end badly and to be honest I think most players have got used to the Commander having an 'idiot cap' on all the time anyway

    To make this chapter work without a full reworking it needs (imo)

    • An understanding on these things rotate in/out and how the tiering system is working. ie communication from the devs
    • lfg in parties needs fixing (it'll prob happen next week)
    • Better and more simplified rewards
    • Better scaling or further nerfs. They take too long for too little incentive. They lack the fun and cool mechcanics of Forging Steel which is how these should be presented if they want longer instances.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    the expansion is clearly the new priority and IBS has been changed, abandoned or whatever.

    That has been my assessment of the situation as well.

    While I am thrilled about a new expansions, as I prefer them by far to LW seasons, I was still looking forward to a fantastic snow and ice adventure season, a hope that was fueled by the Bjora Marches and their promising contents. Now I just want to be done with the IBS, to be honest, as I don't see it working out as possibly intended (I mean, breaking the snow and ice theme by re-introducing Primordus isn't my definition of a great Norn/Charr saga). :/

  • weskay.9217weskay.9217 Member ✭✭✭

    I'll copy/paste what I had in a different thread as it seems this one is more viewed:

    To throw my two cents in with a quick post, this is the first story that I strongly detest. I haven't been thrilled by some of the episodes in the past, but at least I felt there was some re-playable value towards them and wouldn't particularly mind doing them again. This "chapter" in particular had overly repetitive and tedious tasks (specifically with the defense missions), incredibly frustrating with the amount of knockdowns/knock-backs/and other CC abilities, and overly time-consuming if you're trying to do this on your own. Yes, this is an MMO, but I prefer to do story at my own pace and leave the MMO aspect to practically everything else. I can't foresee this being overly playable in the distant future when nobody is doing this story step any longer (take a look at Living Story season 1 feedback... did we not learn?).

    Just my two cents, of course, but this episode really missed it for me and was the first chapter that I logged out really early for a new patch/release day.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    (I mean, breaking the snow and ice theme by re-introducing Primordus isn't my definition of a great Norn/Charr saga). :/

    Well, ain't that the truth. They may still turn it back into a Norn/Charr saga but this whole "oh no the world must untie-I mean unite-because the threats are threatening again!" turn isn't inspiring a lot of confidence.

  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2020

    Pros:
    Revisiting old locations was nice and didn't feel forced.

    Concept of Response Missions seems like a good idea to let players choose to play solo or with other players.

    Strike mission allies being helpful in combat, even taking out veteran enemies by themselves, felt natural.

    Voice acting for the chapter was very well done (still haven't replayed Drizzlewood yet).

    Braham was not whiny and one of the only few characters who considered the long-term effects of allying with Jormag.

    Cons:
    Bosses were too much of HP sponges and felt like they were just made like this to extend playtime, despite it being very boring.

    Everyone accepting Ryland with little reservations seemed really unbelievable. I would have expected him to be attacked on sight by most of these characters, much less them openly chatting with him and battling alongside him (even as a single, easily unnecessary ally in the Brisban mission).

    Much of the characters' dialogue and drama seemed unbelievable and forced. Taimi's argument seemed laughable for her to be making, and doubtful that she would so easily dismiss the long-term consequences of allying with Jormag entirely. Would have been much more reasonable for Phlunt or one of the other traditionalist Arcane Council Members. Unless Jormag's directly messing with all of these characters' minds, which doesn't seem to be the case, this just seems like forced drama just for the sake of having it.

  • ragnarock.4592ragnarock.4592 Member
    edited November 22, 2020

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    It doesn't seem like there's much "story" to it and the chosen delivery method is terrible as replayable content. You really want us to do these things daily when it forces us to waste most of the time doing boring events and killing trash mobs in between segments of listening to the same NPC dialogue? Then you cap it off with boring, uninspired bosses?

    I guess my question is why is this better than an actual story episode with a new map? For me, every episode of Icebrood Saga has been worse than the previous! Your old delivery method of a single map with an actual story episode was better than the experimentation you've done with 1 map per 2 episodes (Drizzlewood was an AWFUL idea with that ridiculously long meta because of this choice!). This Saga hasn't been good since the prologue with Grothmar Valley (which was a good story episode with a cool map that has the kind of personality I expect from you guys!).

    All I can say is that EoD better be good because Icebrood Saga is a big fail for me so far and this latest episode has me barely wanting to play.

    Edit: Honorable mention to Bjora part 1, actually. That Raven Sanctum stuff was pretty cool and I didn't get annoyed with the story until Bjora 2 dropped.

    To me the problem to Drizzlewood is the meta, but the idea is not bad and i dont have problem to 1 big map to 2 episode. but this new chapter dont have work any map in season 3/4 o ice saga have more work in the events than the three instance of the new chapter

    And the idea of use instance map in tyria i think is a good idea but the problem is the execution. Use instance allows they to better manage the events and their difficulty. Unfortunately we saw that there was no work

  • @ragnarock.4592 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    It doesn't seem like there's much "story" to it and the chosen delivery method is terrible as replayable content. You really want us to do these things daily when it forces us to waste most of the time doing boring events and killing trash mobs in between segments of listening to the same NPC dialogue? Then you cap it off with boring, uninspired bosses?

    I guess my question is why is this better than an actual story episode with a new map? For me, every episode of Icebrood Saga has been worse than the previous! Your old delivery method of a single map with an actual story episode was better than the experimentation you've done with 1 map per 2 episodes (Drizzlewood was an AWFUL idea with that ridiculously long meta because of this choice!). This Saga hasn't been good since the prologue with Grothmar Valley (which was a good story episode with a cool map that has the kind of personality I expect from you guys!).

    All I can say is that EoD better be good because Icebrood Saga is a big fail for me so far and this latest episode has me barely wanting to play.

    Edit: Honorable mention to Bjora part 1, actually. That Raven Sanctum stuff was pretty cool and I didn't get annoyed with the story until Bjora 2 dropped.

    To me the problem to Drizzlewood is the meta, but the idea is not bad and i dont have problem to 1 big map to 2 episode. but this new chapter dont have work any map in season 3/4 o ice saga have more work in the events than the three instance of the new chapter

    And the idea of use instance map in tyria i think is a good idea but the problem is the execution. Use instance allows they to better manage the events and their difficulty. Unfortunately we saw that there was no work

    Agreed. Low effort. I understand that they pulled all the resources they could for the expansion, but that never would have been necessary if they had started on that right away like they should have.

    Just one more way what could be a great game is continually mismanaged. Disappointing.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    the expansion is clearly the new priority and IBS has been changed, abandoned or whatever.

    That has been my assessment of the situation as well.

    While I am thrilled about a new expansions, as I prefer them by far to LW seasons, I was still looking forward to a fantastic snow and ice adventure season, a hope that was fueled by the Bjora Marches and their promising contents. Now I just want to be done with the IBS, to be honest, as I don't see it working out as possibly intended (I mean, breaking the snow and ice theme by re-introducing Primordus isn't my definition of a great Norn/Charr saga). :/

    Didn’t everyone expect this though, with Primordus being Jormag’s weakness, as well as the Icebrood Saga logo being blue and red, as if it’s a continuation of the story started in Season 3?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2020

    I thought it was on character for the Asura to seek aid (if they needed it) from someone like Jormag. I mean hey players have speculated that for years jormag is the counter to primordus and it would be logical to conclude asure have done so as well.

    This is the asure afterall we ar talking about, they experiemented and tortured sentient species in the past for their research, their morality at the very least should make this development not an asspull imo.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Didn’t everyone expect this though, with Primordus being Jormag’s weakness, as well as the Icebrood Saga logo being blue and red, as if it’s a continuation of the story started in Season 3?

    No, apparently not everyone. ;) At least not in the way it's done.

    Anyway, I'll leave my final judgment for when the three-parter finale is over. Perhaps they'll surprise me positively after all.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2020

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Didn’t everyone expect this though, with Primordus being Jormag’s weakness, as well as the Icebrood Saga logo being blue and red, as if it’s a continuation of the story started in Season 3?

    No, apparently not everyone. ;) At least not in the way it's done.

    Anyway, I'll leave my final judgment for when the three-parter finale is over. Perhaps they'll surprise me positively after all.

    Same. I like to leave at least one character behind to play the full season from front to back, as I did for Season 3 and Season 4, to see how fluid the story is, when played in direct sequence without the 2-3 month gaps. For the most part it plays better when you are able to play the episodes back to back. I suspect the same will be true for this saga.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Same. I like to leave at least one character behind to play the full season from front to back, as I did for Season 3 and Season 4, to see how fluid the story is, when played in direct sequence without the 2-3 month gaps. For the most part it plays better when you are able to play the episodes back to back. I suspect the same will be true for this saga.

    Have fun playing twelve or more DRMs back to back then.
    I definitely would not enjoy that.
    For me, three of them after another was almost too much already.

  • Actually it's Primordus not Primordius.
    Kids these days and their unearned swagger.

    There will be 7? more DRMs, we may get more story than most other episode. We could also see a lot of repetitive dialogue.

    Same as any other Elder Dragon, knowing Jormag's domains only provides limited protection from the domain. Unlike the domain of Crystal, mortals don't see Persuasion coming. There are undoubtedly ways to harden against Persuasion but the domain and Jormag should not be taken lightly. We all hear our own voice in our head. In Tyria, that voice could be Jormag. That isn't a minor power.

    You can't defend the case that Asurans could confidently take on Primordus with a quote claiming Asuran hubris lead to their previous defeat. The role of Asuran expertise in magi-tech can not be ignored. Their culture and cultural projects would somewhat harden Asurans against Pursuasion. However, it would be realistic if their hubris left them vulnerable to Pursuasion. Jormag just needs to sow doubt about the need for balance and plant false confidence in Asuran's ability to manage loss of balance.

    The story makes sense if you take Jormag's and the domain of Persuasion's power seriously. The writers are trying to do something fairly difficult and so far I think they are successful. We will need time adjust to the new pacing. The pacing promises the potential for more total content. Hopefully, new mechanics emerge from the pacing and DRMs. I would love to see a spectrum of upgrades that overlap instanced DRMs and the open world. Give individuals a range of upgrades for DRMS, make those upgrades available to public DRMs. Translate those upgrades into upgrades in open world areas where the DRMs occur. I just got worked up thinking about a zone designed just for this.

    weathering's everything

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Same. I like to leave at least one character behind to play the full season from front to back, as I did for Season 3 and Season 4, to see how fluid the story is, when played in direct sequence without the 2-3 month gaps. For the most part it plays better when you are able to play the episodes back to back. I suspect the same will be true for this saga.

    Have fun playing twelve or more DRMs back to back then.
    I definitely would not enjoy that.
    For me, three of them after another was almost too much already.

    Depends on how these new masteries assist with making the content easier or not.

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Bottom line for me, this LW episode has me seriously considering not buying the next expansion expansion or buying gems for the very 1st time since starting with GW 1. The next LW additions will speak volumes. Hopefully the team gets the message and that they are putting the game as risk with their current direction.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stike Missions are terrible. Either raid up or kill the atrocious content that only a select amount of people enjoy. It is to boring for top tier players and not open enough for casuals. The content should die. I feel bored doing it for the rewards alone on the one set difficulty that does not do it for my hardcore side and is just out of reach for most casual friends.

    This content is the Strike Mission version of fractals. It also needs to die.

    This content makes two thing blantantly obvious. We need a LFG que system for instanced content. That lets us prefill as mich as the group as we have in our party or squad.

    It also shows the need for multipe versions of content to cater to all audiences. If people enjoy harder content, they will play it.Titles, achievements, amd greator currency rewards is all thats needed to justify harder content.

  • DarcShriek.5829DarcShriek.5829 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2020

    Currently, I am extremely underwhelmed by the latest episode. The DRM missions are boring and I find it hard to repeat them after a couple days.