Anet i hope theres a gameplan after EoD. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Anet i hope theres a gameplan after EoD.

zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 18, 2020 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Its Self-evident that EoD as a concept only came to exist early on after Ibs was set up as a more ambitious lw season. Based on the announcement trailer bits and story bits that where introduced and now seemingly dropped in light of EoD comming 2021 its clear that the original scope and goals of ibs has changed sagnificantly (likely shrinking in scope).

I dont make this to tell you oh you should have done this or that, i just want to stress that really, the champions release started on the weak side (even for ibs release standards which have been smaller but faster to produce traditionally). The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

I Hope you take the time leading up to and after EoD and decide what the model for gw2 releases should be and stick to it. MMOs have traditionally had smaller lw releases inbetween expansions which happen on a schedule, others just had expacs that happen on a schedule and others just had smaller releases that happen often.

Whatever you pick stay with it and optimise it so the administration of new content doesnt suffer outside of problems that you cant control (covid) and the game can finaly stabilise again and grow as it should.

I would personally go with the safe model of having expacs with lw inbetween, others might have other opinions, but please, dont just decide on the fly what to do, instead pick a course of action and stick with it.

Comments

  • That's not really right at all, you can't really compare a game company to a dentist or mechanic. Anet's doing things differently than other companies. It's not like you NEED to follow a formula for games to work, just look at games like Undertale. It keeps track of stuff you do, altering their files as you play. Not with updates, but with the actions you take, such as killing Toriel and resetting because you felt guilty. And the game makes it KNOWN it kept track of that.

    Just because ANet isn't doing one tried and true method for their LWs other than "Each episode is free if you play during it's launch" doesn't mean they don't have a plan. Sure, it might be weaker than others comparatively, but they're going to shake it up regardless. They've stated they are planning on doing more after EoD, and that EoD was not called EoD to mark the end of the game. If the DLC launches well and continues growth in the game, then it does. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. They could potentially change the way you think about combat and fighting with EoD, for better or worse. They're going to try different stuff no matter what.

    On another note, people had really high expectations for this episode. It's understandable to feel it's weak. But, in my opinion, they gave really all that was advertised. Sure, they made the trailer look like your standard "AMAZING EPIC 10/10 PERFECT GAMEPLAY WITH ALL THESE CRAZY MOMENTS", but to say that should make the expectation higher than the trailer made it seem is wrong. Every game company paints their game, or new mode, or whatever, in a grandiose spotlight. Anet's finally started doing that with their advertising, because it just wasn't working for them otherwise. We got Dragon Response missions. We can gain more support with allies. We all thought it'd be a progress based thing like masteries, but honestly, I don't think that would be better than the global progress. It makes you feel more like a part of Dragon's Watch than singular commanders running around. We get a few new skins because they've been doing that. We'll be getting the Dwarves and other factions soon.

    And hopefully, ANet finds a way to tie in this PvE factions/allies type stuff with PvP or WvW style factions stuff. Maybe EoD releases a factions type mode, and as a guild you can decide which faction to take support from, either getting different NPCs or boons to assist you during the fight.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    Hell one of the most set in stone mmos, ff14 has introduce big qol to the gerne with its visual options when it comes go clutter and combat in general. Wow has followed the format for years but that didnt stop them from doing things like the Mage tower in legion or Torghast in shadowlands.

    Cannot compare GW2 to FF14 or WoW. They are entirely different business models.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • @Kurrilino.2706 said:

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

    Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.
    Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.
    To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

    All this would be true if A-Net would ba a charity or something.
    In reality they are a very professional entertainment corporation and people who spend money on them have a right to expect that.

    If we apply word by word what you wrote to a dentist or car mechanic, people would laugh at us.

    No, I would not mind applying this to a car mechanic or a dentist, if it means you get more then what you could get on any streetcorner, but more experimental. It is a choice you make to not go to the average joe, but to a game that operates with a more of a sandbox type of release system.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2020

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

    Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.
    Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.
    To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

    All that Chaos theory though, as we've seen usually delivers mixed results. Doing things on the back of a whim isn't always the most organized of professional business models. I do wonder if you were to give us a vote if we would pick the path more commonly treaded if it meant subscriptions, trinity gameplay, but also meant 25 more fractals, 10 more raid wings, 30 more legendaries, ongoing dungeons and 5 more expansions meaning 5 more elites per profession by now and nobody needing to be fired in 2019. I confess the latter seems appealing...

  • But then GW2 would be very similar to every other MMO on the market. If that's what people want, then they should simply pony up their sub fees on those games and play them. Personally, I would quit GW2 if it moved to a sub model and I know a lot of others who would as well. Even if it meant a content stream that you suggest.

    More money usually means more opportunity. This is complete speculation of course but lets say we gazed into the future and with a sub meant alliances happened and I guess most of the wish lists people have been aching for for the past couple of years. It might have been worth it.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2020

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    But then GW2 would be very similar to every other MMO on the market. If that's what people want, then they should simply pony up their sub fees on those games and play them. Personally, I would quit GW2 if it moved to a sub model and I know a lot of others who would as well. Even if it meant a content stream that you suggest.

    More money usually means more opportunity. This is complete speculation of course but lets say we gazed into the future and with a sub meant alliances happened and I guess most of the wish lists people have been aching for for the past couple of years. It might have been worth it.

    Perhaps for those invested in the alliances concept. Most opinions that I recall on the forums here when sub fees are suggested are opposed to them. Granted, the forums is not a fair representation of the entire player base. /shrug

    EDIT: also, sub fees for GW2 would run counter to the original concept of F2P that Anet instilled from the start, IIRC

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

    As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

  • @sitarskee.5738 said:
    I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

    As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

    I remmeber them giving "roadmaps". Like how soon GW2 would be released. It was later and the outcry was huge. When they left the 4 weekly schedule in season 1. The outcry was huge. The reason they do not give us this kind of info is that too many think it means they are entitled to it and things explode very nasty if it isn't met

  • @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

    As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

    I remmeber them giving "roadmaps". Like how soon GW2 would be released. It was later and the outcry was huge. When they left the 4 weekly schedule in season 1. The outcry was huge. The reason they do not give us this kind of info is that too many think it means they are entitled to it and things explode very nasty if it isn't met

    Yeah, that's understandable. That's why it would be better for them to just state what exactly they are working on and an estimate date of release for example "We're working on a new raid and we would like to have it released by the end of March". I liked the last roadmap they presented.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And when the new raid doesn't hit in March, then what?

    Sorry. Rhetorical question.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • @kharmin.7683 said:
    And when the new raid doesn't hit in March, then what?

    Sorry. Rhetorical question.

    I don't know if you realize but it's not just GW2 community that has a bunch of crybabies so I doubt devs get affected by their flaming etc. when they don't get what they want on a certain date. You kinda make it look like it's only GW2 problem while it's pretty much everywhere.

  • @sitarskee.5738 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    And when the new raid doesn't hit in March, then what?

    Sorry. Rhetorical question.

    I don't know if you realize but it's not just GW2 community that has a bunch of crybabies so I doubt devs get affected by their flaming etc. when they don't get what they want on a certain date. You kinda make it look like it's only GW2 problem while it's pretty much everywhere.

    The point here is that one should not look at other games. But just to comment on the GW2 community. Yes, my experience is that there is a lot of commotion once such a date is not reached while it was promised. Even when it isn't promised at all, but doesn't arrive when one expects it, the reaction can be very flammatory. Just look at the most recent release. It was expected earlier in november. The lack of it resulted in very pitty comments

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2020

    We can count ourselves lucky if there is a plan beyond the next three months. By plan I mean an actual direction and an idea of what will and what will not be inplemented by said time, not the PR-speak that are """""roadmaps""""".

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

    As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

    Do you honstly believe the gap between lw and expac content is so small that its unreasonable to expect more?

    I had set my expectations thst this would be a smaller release but you have to keep in mind that this didnt meant the udpate came out faster, it came mout a month and a half later than normal.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @sitarskee.5738 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    And when the new raid doesn't hit in March, then what?

    Sorry. Rhetorical question.

    I don't know if you realize but it's not just GW2 community that has a bunch of crybabies so I doubt devs get affected by their flaming etc. when they don't get what they want on a certain date. You kinda make it look like it's only GW2 problem while it's pretty much everywhere.

    The point here is that one should not look at other games. But just to comment on the GW2 community. Yes, my experience is that there is a lot of commotion once such a date is not reached while it was promised. Even when it isn't promised at all, but doesn't arrive when one expects it, the reaction can be very flammatory. Just look at the most recent release. It was expected earlier in november. The lack of it resulted in very pitty comments

    Looking to other games is how you improve your game. The easiest example of this is to simply look at Anthem, that game viewed talking or taking notes from other games in the genre as taboo and it flopped because of it.

    Its one of the biggest differences between 1.0 and 2.0, they now practically model their mockups based on what the competition does.

    The goal isnt to reinvent the wheel its to take existing concept and see where you can improve upon them (mounts speak to that more than anything).

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lokh.2695 said:
    We can count ourselves lucky if there is a plan beyond the next three months. By plan I mean an actual direction and an idea of what will and what will not be inplemented by said time, not the PR-speak that are """""roadmaps""""".

    If the best we can have 8 years in is a plan 3 months into the future then we have a serious problem on our hands.

    Deep vision and realistic scopes is what leads to success and growth.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

    Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.
    Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.
    To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

    I feel like there needs to be some correction here.

    "It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system."

    WoW literally did both of those things before GW2 did. WoW released their Achievements system in 2008, which also enabled more and more titles to be earned. There were also several MMOs, still with fairly large worlds to spend a lot of time in, that were F2P (Maplestory, Ragnarok Online, Perfect World) or that didn't require a Subscription. They weren't massively popular, but they still existed and some were very P2W, but then there were others that just didn't have the pull other brands had.

    But guess what? ANet might have been "innovative" to some extent and challenged the status quo with GW2, but 8 years later two of the most successful MMOs still use subscriptions and they both maintain better player retention and a larger active playerbase than GW2 does.

    You can like GW2, that is entirely fine and I won't challenge you on that because it suits your tastes, but I feel there needs to be at least some recognition that their "approach" has flaws. Flaws, mind you, that resulted in 143 employees being let go all at once, the game director Mike Z leaving and there still being no acknowledgement of it, and Mike O having completely left with other veteran ANet devs to form another company. Granted devs moving on or leaving to other companies are a norm in the industry, but these things are something else.

  • @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

    Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.
    Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.
    To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

    I feel like there needs to be some correction here.

    "It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system."

    WoW literally did both of those things before GW2 did. WoW released their Achievements system in 2008, which also enabled more and more titles to be earned. There were also several MMOs, still with fairly large worlds to spend a lot of time in, that were F2P (Maplestory, Ragnarok Online, Perfect World) or that didn't require a Subscription. They weren't massively popular, but they still existed and some were very P2W, but then there were others that just didn't have the pull other brands had.

    But guess what? ANet might have been "innovative" to some extent and challenged the status quo with GW2, but 8 years later two of the most successful MMOs still use subscriptions and they both maintain better player retention and a larger active playerbase than GW2 does.

    You can like GW2, that is entirely fine and I won't challenge you on that because it suits your tastes, but I feel there needs to be at least some recognition that their "approach" has flaws. Flaws, mind you, that resulted in 143 employees being let go all at once, the game director Mike Z leaving and there still being no acknowledgement of it, and Mike O having completely left with other veteran ANet devs to form another company. Granted devs moving on or leaving to other companies are a norm in the industry, but these things are something else.

    Ok, you have just proven my point and want GW2 to be just like WoW. Make sure to get your facts right. Arenanet released a title system in gw1 factions in 2006. As it offered a way to fill the gap between releases it attacked players from other games in such a way that blizzard hasted to add a similar system to WoW.
    It is ok to like WoW and I understand it suits your tasting..... wait, just read your own post again with the knowledge that you did not successfully corrected me, but made a fool of yourself by proving the exact point why it is good arenanet does not follow in blizzards footsteps. More likely the other way around.

  • @zealex.9410 said:

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

    As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

    Do you honstly believe the gap between lw and expac content is so small that its unreasonable to expect more?

    I had set my expectations thst this would be a smaller release but you have to keep in mind that this didnt meant the udpate came out faster, it came mout a month and a half later than normal.

    I didn't say that gap between lw and expac is small, you got my point wrong. What I meant by saying that is that they said they would bring expansion level content with IBS episodes due to no plans on having an expansion but then they announced an expansion and since then the quality of content has dropped. They just don't plan on bringing "expansion level content" in IBS anymore since there is an actual expansion on the way.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sitarskee.5738 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    I mean, a clear roadmap wouldn't hurt, like they did some time ago but maybe a little bit wider this time so we know what we're facing.

    As for the quality matter, for some it might be not enough, for some it might be enough. Overall, I'd say I expected more but that's the only reason I am slightly disappointed. We can't expect "expansion level content" with LW anymore since expansion is announced though. So yeah, it's ok I guess.

    Do you honstly believe the gap between lw and expac content is so small that its unreasonable to expect more?

    I had set my expectations thst this would be a smaller release but you have to keep in mind that this didnt meant the udpate came out faster, it came mout a month and a half later than normal.

    I didn't say that gap between lw and expac is small, you got my point wrong. What I meant by saying that is that they said they would bring expansion level content with IBS episodes due to no plans on having an expansion but then they announced an expansion and since then the quality of content has dropped. They just don't plan on bringing "expansion level content" in IBS anymore since there is an actual expansion on the way.

    True, still this is quite bellow anything we saw in se3 or 4 so far, hell the 2 episode finale of se4 is blowing this out of the water if we are in for 3 more episodes kitten this.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    The scope has been a mess and thats because you havent set a clear plan for how Gw2 is going to stay relevant and evolve and grow for years to come.

    Arenanet isn't a company that does it like it is supposed to be done. They have never been that way. If you've been with us for longer you should have known that. It started a long time ago with the gw1 campaigns that went to an expansion and gw2 and the ongoing changes to the living world.
    Arenanet isn't using proofed business models like other bigger companies. They do it their own way. The result is a game that has been refreshing and renewing the genre. It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system. The first without monthly fees and still presented a big game where you can spent a lifetime online. The first to say goodbye to the trinity. Etc.
    To be innovative you need trial and error. It means they constantly try to improve the release schedule.

    I feel like there needs to be some correction here.

    "It was Arenanet that started the titles and achievement system."

    WoW literally did both of those things before GW2 did. WoW released their Achievements system in 2008, which also enabled more and more titles to be earned. There were also several MMOs, still with fairly large worlds to spend a lot of time in, that were F2P (Maplestory, Ragnarok Online, Perfect World) or that didn't require a Subscription. They weren't massively popular, but they still existed and some were very P2W, but then there were others that just didn't have the pull other brands had.

    But guess what? ANet might have been "innovative" to some extent and challenged the status quo with GW2, but 8 years later two of the most successful MMOs still use subscriptions and they both maintain better player retention and a larger active playerbase than GW2 does.

    You can like GW2, that is entirely fine and I won't challenge you on that because it suits your tastes, but I feel there needs to be at least some recognition that their "approach" has flaws. Flaws, mind you, that resulted in 143 employees being let go all at once, the game director Mike Z leaving and there still being no acknowledgement of it, and Mike O having completely left with other veteran ANet devs to form another company. Granted devs moving on or leaving to other companies are a norm in the industry, but these things are something else.

    Ok, you have just proven my point and want GW2 to be just like WoW. Make sure to get your facts right. Arenanet released a title system in gw1 factions in 2006. As it offered a way to fill the gap between releases it attacked players from other games in such a way that blizzard hasted to add a similar system to WoW.
    It is ok to like WoW and I understand it suits your tasting..... wait, just read your own post again with the knowledge that you did not successfully corrected me, but made a fool of yourself by proving the exact point why it is good arenanet does not follow in blizzards footsteps. More likely the other way around.

    I assumed you were referencing GW2 only, so then yes GW1 did implement a form of system for that.

    However, that doesn't negate the flaws with ANet as a company and how things have been handled. To clarify, I never said nor implied that I would want GW2 to be just like WoW, I actually like parts of GW2 that are very, very different to WoW (the combat mechanics being a significant one)...but there are plenty of things with the game that I can no longer really overlook as "forgivable" issues, especially when it comes to the direction ANet has gone. You can boast about how ANet does things "so differently" and that they "do it their own way" and you personally believe that to be a good thing, and I would agree with that. I even said that they definitely challenged the status quo of the genre with GW2, and even GW1 to some extents, but also at the same time...I have been with this franchise since the start of GW1 and ANet 100% is nowhere near the kind of company it used to be. Maybe if the original developers of GW2 and GW1 were still around that might be different, but that isn't the case and it shows.

    I think ANet honestly became victims of their own ego, and their own hype. I still think GW2 is an okay game, but I'm also not just going to ignore these problems that they won't even communicate with their community about, nor should anyone. Like the game, but just be aware that criticism is okay and ANet certainly needs it more often than not. Where would FFXIV be if its community were not vocal about the issues with the game when it first released? Thats why it got the A Realm Reborn re-release and it did exponentially better than it would have had they not listened. Now I'm not saying they should completely redo GW2, its just an example of why ANets approach to essentially ignoring the ever-living out of their community is a poor one; and they really do it that way because boo hoo they got criticism about things with the game and they didn't like it. Thats really what that boils down to...and its kind of sad. Players explaining that dungeons are worthless, have been worthless and have continued to be worthless is an exaggerated albeit honestly fair criticism...yet ANet still ditched them entirely and were like "Here Fractals" rather than, y'know, iterate...as devs normally do especially in a game where they scale your level in that kind of content. So you're right, its not WoW where Ragefire Chasm ceases to be relevant once you level beyond like...20, whereas with GW2 pretty much all of the Dungeons could be relevant to the general gameplay loop...except they don't offer anything, not even a challenge.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    You can like GW2, that is entirely fine and I won't challenge you on that because it suits your tastes, but I feel there needs to be at least some recognition that their "approach" has flaws. Flaws, mind you, that resulted in 143 employees being let go all at once, the game director Mike Z leaving and there still being no acknowledgement of it, and Mike O having completely left with other veteran ANet devs to form another company. Granted devs moving on or leaving to other companies are a norm in the industry, but these things are something else.

    Please stop with the falsehood that GW2 was responsible for the layoffs. This has been disproven.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    You can like GW2, that is entirely fine and I won't challenge you on that because it suits your tastes, but I feel there needs to be at least some recognition that their "approach" has flaws. Flaws, mind you, that resulted in 143 employees being let go all at once, the game director Mike Z leaving and there still being no acknowledgement of it, and Mike O having completely left with other veteran ANet devs to form another company. Granted devs moving on or leaving to other companies are a norm in the industry, but these things are something else.

    Please stop with the falsehood that GW2 was responsible for the layoffs. This has been disproven.

    Mhmm and that certainly wasn't indicative of a broader spanning issue in regards to ANet and its performance or handling of the product in the region in recent years in the eyes of NCSoft and ANets future as a studio. Thats certainly not what happened here either...

    I apologize for the sarcasm, but companies like NCSoft tend to follow patterns, especially when it comes to the optics around these things. I'm not trying to be a doomsayer, even if it very much sounds like it, but I mean...c'mon...you don't layoff 143 employees by saying "part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSoft in the West" when ANet is quite literally the only NCSoft subsidiary in the West, yet things are apparently "going well" internally over there with handling this game.

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2020

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    I apologize for the sarcasm, but companies like NCSoft tend to follow patterns, especially when it comes to the optics around these things. I'm not trying to be a doomsayer, even if it very much sounds like it, but I mean...c'mon...you don't layoff 143 employees by saying "part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSoft in the West" when ANet is quite literally the only NCSoft subsidiary in the West, yet things are apparently "going well" internally over there with handling this game.

    'NCSoft West' is a subsidiary on its own, and it is the parent of Arena Net and... well it seems to be somewhat of a relic as it is true that most of it's other studio's have closed. Who knows what it's current role is in the organization, but there is info about another mobile game studio (before the restructuring anyways), and lately they have worked on distribution for a Harmonix game. In the past it was said that Anet in-housed its marketing and publishing work (for whatever that was worth), which is kind of silly, since that meant their parent (NCSoft West) had nothing to do... and considering that they where once a multi studio organization, but now, really only have one product to manage, perhaps the restructuring was simply a long overdue adjustment.

    Of course nobody really knows what the financials are. GW2 does make revenue, and NCSoft publishes statistics on it, but they don't publish cost breakdowns across the organization so we don't know how much cash NC Soft West vs Arena Net where burning and what they where spending it on.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lokh.2695 said:
    We can count ourselves lucky if there is a plan beyond the next three months. By plan I mean an actual direction and an idea of what will and what will not be inplemented by said time, not the PR-speak that are """""roadmaps""""".

    Frankly, i'd be happy if they had any sort of plan like that for just the more immediate future. So far, they haven't got one. They might have had some release plans, but they never seemed to have any idea about the design direction the game should go in, or any longterm vision for the game. It's always as if they picked ideas by using darts. Or magic 8-balls.
    So, yeah, looking at the situation we're now, hearing they have any sort of vision for the next week would be a great news.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Of course there is a game plan, Milk as much money they can before NCsoft call quits

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @lokh.2695 said:
    We can count ourselves lucky if there is a plan beyond the next three months. By plan I mean an actual direction and an idea of what will and what will not be inplemented by said time, not the PR-speak that are """""roadmaps""""".

    Frankly, i'd be happy if they had any sort of plan like that for just the more immediate future. So far, they haven't got one. They might have had some release plans, but they never seemed to have any idea about the design direction the game should go in, or any longterm vision for the game. It's always as if they picked ideas by using darts. Or magic 8-balls.
    So, yeah, looking at the situation we're now, hearing they have any sort of vision for the next week would be a great news.

    Just because we haven't been given a plan doesn't mean that Anet doesn't have one.

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  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2020

    The business model makes any communication of future plans for the game irrelevant; GW2 success has NOTHING to do with communicating release dates or plans for content ... it's pretty smart actually. Also, it doesn't make sense for Anet to tell us anything, otherwise they stick themselves into an awkward place EVERY time they give that information.

    People need to stop thinking about GW2 as some long term investment ... there isn't a sub so you aren't paying for anything into the future. This game is built around the idea that you play and enjoy it for what it is NOW, not what it might be in the future.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2020

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Just because we haven't been given a plan doesn't mean that Anet doesn't have one.

    I am basing my assessment not on what they say, but on what they do. After observing the whole 8 years of game development i am most certain, that even if they have a vision for the game now, it would be a very recent thing. They certainly didn't have one in the past.

    The whole history of this game is a history of constant changes in game direction, often made without much forethough. I mean, the first case happened after merely 3 months since launch, and was caused by a panic reaction. And it didn;t get any better since then.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Just because we haven't been given a plan doesn't mean that Anet doesn't have one.

    I am basing my assessment not on what they say, but on what they do. After observing the whole 8 years of game development i am most certain, that even if they have a vision for the game now, it would be a very recent thing. They certainly didn't have one in the past.

    The whole history of this game is a history of constant changes in game direction, often made without much forethough. I mean, the first case happened after merely 3 months since launch, and was caused by a panic reaction. And it didn;t get any better since then.

    I think that's a fair assessment and I also think that is one of the consequences of the business model. Not relying on people's sub and anticipation for future content at some approximate date enables Anet to shift their plans as they need to. Being agile is important ... but if they are going to take advantage of being agile, they need to lay off telling us things that may never be.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I think that's a fair assessment and I also think that is one of the consequences of the business model. Not relying on people's sub and anticipation for future content at some approximate date enables Anet to shift their plans as they need to. Being agile is important ... but if they are going to take advantage of being agile, they need to lay off telling us things that may never be.

    I don;t think this is being agile and trying to constantly adjust to the market situation. I think it's more of a case of not being able to decide on the direction, and just wandering around blindly. Former would still be having a plan and vision. Latter however is just being lost.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I think that's a fair assessment and I also think that is one of the consequences of the business model. Not relying on people's sub and anticipation for future content at some approximate date enables Anet to shift their plans as they need to. Being agile is important ... but if they are going to take advantage of being agile, they need to lay off telling us things that may never be.

    I don;t think this is being agile and trying to constantly adjust to the market situation. I think it's more of a case of not being able to decide on the direction, and just wandering around blindly. Former would still be having a plan and vision. Latter however is just being lost.

    Maybe ... I don't know the story and I'm not going to assume their shifts are about being indecisive because I don't know the reason ... but that's pretty much the point I'm making anyways isn't it ;) ... if Anet wants to practice agile business practices, they should to stop telling us things that might not happen because the business model isn't contingent on people making long term spends in the game.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Just because we haven't been given a plan doesn't mean that Anet doesn't have one.

    I am basing my assessment not on what they say, but on what they do. After observing the whole 8 years of game development i am most certain, that even if they have a vision for the game now, it would be a very recent thing. They certainly didn't have one in the past.

    The whole history of this game is a history of constant changes in game direction, often made without much forethough. I mean, the first case happened after merely 3 months since launch, and was caused by a panic reaction. And it didn;t get any better since then.

    I'm sad I have to agree here. GW2 has a history of releasing good concepts and abandoning them(dungeons, LS1, maybe raids, maybe strikes, most definitle the visions of the past...). That along with tendencies towards knee-jerk reactions and the bad communication, make me doubt that this game ever had plans for years to come or if they had, those plans don't mean much for whatever reason. Instead of improving on a concept, ANet rather discards it and replaces it with the next gimmick.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • DeanBB.4268DeanBB.4268 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    ... there isn't a sub so you aren't paying for anything into the future. This game is built around the idea that you play and enjoy it for what it is NOW, not what it might be in the future.

    But by purchasing non-consumable items from the gem store, I am investing in the game's future. I am trusting that by spending money on items, those items can be enjoyed for years to come. Yes, I understand that Anet really owns it all and I'm more like renting blah blah blah... but I am investing in their game and hope to continue enjoying it for a long time.

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  • I am focusing on the remainder of the Icebrood Saga and looking forward to the expansion End of Dragons. I am not even thinking about what is going to happen afterwards because that is so far off from now.

    I think that you should stop putting unnecessary pressure on an already-pressured studio. It is not fair to the employees that work bloody hard on this game.

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  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2020

    @DeanBB.4268 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    ... there isn't a sub so you aren't paying for anything into the future. This game is built around the idea that you play and enjoy it for what it is NOW, not what it might be in the future.

    But by purchasing non-consumable items from the gem store, I am investing in the game's future. I am trusting that by spending money on items, those items can be enjoyed for years to come. Yes, I understand that Anet really owns it all and I'm more like renting blah blah blah... but I am investing in their game and hope to continue enjoying it for a long time.

    No doubt we all want maximum value from items we buy ... but let's be clear about what I'm saying here. Longevity of the game to use your purchases is not related to Anet communicating what they have planned for release and when. In otherwords, making your purchases contingent on Anet's future game plans is denying yourself using purchased items you want for enjoyment. That's the whole point of those GS items ... to enjoy them. There isn't a relationship between players being able to enjoy a GS item they purchase and what Anet is doing next Tuesday.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I personally didn't think that this "expansion level content" would actually make me want to play the game less. I was at least prepared for disappointment thanks to the oversell of Sun's Refuge, tempering all future expectations.