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Stop calling 1000g weapon sets content

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  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2021

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them. You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    Actually, there is probably a reason they did it this way, perhaps based on it impacts materials consumption, or other factors most people can't even begin to imagine themselves. To call it a 'mistake' is just a view with a very narrow focus and a lack of understanding. I don't really the get the original complaint though ... this isn't content people have to do if they don't want to. Almost nothing in this game is, except for leveling. People need to stop assuming that if they complain they don't like certain kinds of content, it means they will get other kinds of content they do like. We get access to ALL MANNER of different content for exactly that reasons. Anet has that 'content consumption' data ... we don't.

    Abuse from people that tell you how to play is not a reason to change a class in a game that is designed and works to allow you to play how you want.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2021

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

    It was the boreal weapons they did that misstake with since there was no hint of it having to be used later.
    Stormcaller weapons had a flavor text that it should be used but was then deemed to not be used.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DAN.7314 said:
    I just bought 200 of the new deldrimor supply chests that can drop the volcanic weapon boxes. They cost me 4 thousand tyrian defense seals. I got zero volcanic weapon boxes. I've opened another 50 of these boxes previously and got zero as well.

    I've opened 250 DRM end chests or more (mostly gold chests from CMs). I've gotten zero volcanic weapon chests from there.

    I could understand if it was a rare weapon collection with no mastery point tied to it, but this is a STORY achievement with a mastery point! I haven't gotten a single weapon for this collection, and I have played DRMs a ton!

    I only got 2 out of chests, so I had to buy the set. I've played those DRMs daily, 5-7 a day. Never received a single drop from there.

    By the way, "1,000 Gold", as mentioned in the title, is a joke - it costs a lot more than that, easily three times that amount.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

    It was the boreal weapons they did that misstake with since there was no hint of it having to be used later.
    Stormcaller weapons had a flavor text that it should be used but was then deemed to not be used.

    Ah. I must've forgotten, but either way, the person I quoted is still wrong.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

    Check in game before launching facts, you can't purchase the crimson and azure recipe without crafting the corresponding dragon slayer weapon. Sure they aren't used in the craft, but not having them still prevent you to get the next version. How stupid is this? Imagine a player joining the game at chapter 2 and not understanding at all why he can't get the azure and crimson weapons? Those aren't new rewards, but more locked ones.

    I am not free to do how I want to get those, I am forced to make the previous sets.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @hugo.4705 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

    They are, check in game before launching facts, you can't purchase the crimson and azure recipe without crafting the corresponding dragon slayer weapon.
    I am not free to do how I want to get those, I am forced to make the previous sets.

    I did state the facts and this is what I said. If you read the rest of my post, you’ll see that I was disputing your comparison to Stormcaller/Boreal.

    See below from your post:

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set

    Only boreal required the ACTUAL weapon to craft the next upgrade as it was part of the recipe. None of the recipes for the Champions episode so far have required the weapons as a part of the recipe.. Once you craft the weapon, you can get rid of them as was confirmed by Anet in the other thread that you’re aware of.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them. You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    Actually, there is probably a reason they did it this way, perhaps based on it impacts materials consumption, or other factors most people can't even begin to imagine themselves. To call it a 'mistake' is just a view with a very narrow focus and a lack of understanding. I don't really the get the original complaint though ... this isn't content people have to do if they don't want to. Almost nothing in this game is, except for leveling. People need to stop assuming that if they complain they don't like certain kinds of content, it means they will get other kinds of content they do like. We get access to ALL MANNER of different content for exactly that reasons. Anet has that 'content consumption' data ... we don't.

    Nah it is a mistake. Opinions you know. Sorry but forcing you to craft the first sets and making the following steps account bounds isn't clever. I wouldn't be here to complain if I could buy any crimson out of the tp for 40g. Your "don't want then don't go for it" doesn't stand, I want the crimson weapons, but without the useless boring long way of crafting the dragon slayers "base" version first. It's simple.

    Gonna pass on your "if not liking the content and expecting a content you like" stop deforming words, I like the content cause I want the crimson, azure and charged stormcallers..

    Check the wiki if you don't believe me, crimson and azure are bound.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

    It was the boreal weapons they did that misstake with since there was no hint of it having to be used later.
    Stormcaller weapons had a flavor text that it should be used but was then deemed to not be used.

    Totally agree. Stormcallers, even the charged ones are okay for me, also I can buy any of them on Tp. What I am angry about is the dragonslayers ones cause I can't buy the crimson and azures directly off the tp.
    Boreals, I forgot about them.
    Corrected my original post, meant boreal indeed.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @hugo.4705 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

    It was the boreal weapons they did that misstake with since there was no hint of it having to be used later.
    Stormcaller weapons had a flavor text that it should be used but was then deemed to not be used.

    Totally agree. Stormcallers, even the charged ones are okay for me, also I can buy any of them on Tp. What I am angry about is the dragonslayers ones cause I can't buy the crimson and azures directly off the tp.
    Boreals, I forgot about them.
    Corrected my original post, meant boreal indeed.

    You can buy the materials for the weapons off the TP and then only need a minimal number of prismatacite shards for the recipes.

    Anet requiring players to have unlocked the previous version in order to get the upgraded version is nothing new. They've been doing this for years.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

    It was the boreal weapons they did that misstake with since there was no hint of it having to be used later.
    Stormcaller weapons had a flavor text that it should be used but was then deemed to not be used.

    Totally agree. Stormcallers, even the charged ones are okay for me, also I can buy any of them on Tp. What I am angry about is the dragonslayers ones cause I can't buy the crimson and azures directly off the tp.
    Boreals, I forgot about them.
    Corrected my original post, meant boreal indeed.

    You can buy the materials for the weapons off the TP and then only need a minimal number of prismatacite shards for the recipes.

    Anet requiring players to have unlocked the previous version in order to get the upgraded version is nothing new. They've been doing this for years.

    As ugrakarma said. They are expensive. So it returns to my original post, they are expensive and annoy you to make every step. Is it bad to ask for them to be available on TP?

    I answer, no. It is totally fine and don't see anything wrong, the player made the long way of getting the steps and crafting a crimson rifle as example, I buy it and give him gold in exchange.

    Anet simply must stop making everything bound, this isn't gonna push me making all the collections for sake of doing them. And no, no players should be punished of not getting a skin because they don't want to do a specific content or crafting tons of stupid pre versions that looks like nothing. Again, it just instore disgust in minds, not any desire or want.

    Yes it is a punishement, bad decision, and ruin a subpart of fashion wars.

    Care about saying when they required doing similar things? Never as much as lastly in their chapters. Auric hot weapons? Can have them easily. Forged weapons in pof? Easy. Awakened weapons? Not hard. Dungeon weapons? Easy. Fractals? Not that difficult. Apart abyssals. Bl chests one? Can be bought.
    Legendary gens 2? Fine to me, they are differents, and it worths the price.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021

    @hugo.4705 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    In addition of being expensive, I hate the "you need this other set to make that set" I was very angry that after finally finishing the last mastery, to discover that I need to craft the original dragon slayer weapons to get those crimson and azure ones. No way I put a single gold in them.

    Considering that crimson/azure weapons are upgrades of the dragon slayer weapons, it makes sense that one would need to craft the dragon slayer weapon first.

    You already did the mistake with stormcallers, and you do it again with dragon slayers. You never learn? Incredible.

    The mistake with Stormcallers was that people got rid of the actual weapons which were needed for the next set (the weapons were part of the recipe). You would only be able to make that comparison if the dragon slayer weapons themselves were actually needed to craft the crimson/azure weapons which they're not.

    It was the boreal weapons they did that misstake with since there was no hint of it having to be used later.
    Stormcaller weapons had a flavor text that it should be used but was then deemed to not be used.

    Totally agree. Stormcallers, even the charged ones are okay for me, also I can buy any of them on Tp. What I am angry about is the dragonslayers ones cause I can't buy the crimson and azures directly off the tp.
    Boreals, I forgot about them.
    Corrected my original post, meant boreal indeed.

    You can buy the materials for the weapons off the TP and then only need a minimal number of prismatacite shards for the recipes.

    Anet requiring players to have unlocked the previous version in order to get the upgraded version is nothing new. They've been doing this for years.

    As ugrakarma said. They are expensive. So it returns to my original post, they are expensive and annoy you to make every step. Is it bad to ask for them to be available on TP?

    Your post stated: "What I am angry about is the dragonslayers ones cause I can't buy the crimson and azures directly off the tp." You're were upset about not being able to purchase them; not about the cost. You're just moving the goalpost.

    I answer, no. It is totally fine and don't see anything wrong, the player made the long way of getting the steps and crafting a crimson rifle as example, I buy it and give him gold in exchange.

    The major "step" in crafting the weapons is gets the prismaticite crystals for the ingots. You can bypass this by buying the ingots off the TP. You can't buy the weapon directly but you can cut out 95% of the effort.

    Anet simply must stop making everything bound, this isn't gonna push me making all the collections for sake of doing them. And no, no players should be punished of not getting a skin because they don't want to do a specific content or crafting tons of stupid pre versions that looks like nothing. Again, it just instore disgust in minds, not any desire or want.

    Yes it is a punishement, bad decision, and ruin a subpart of fashion wars.

    Rewards being bound is to get you to do the content rather than whip out a credit card and bypass all of it or simply farm elsewhere in the game in order to do the same. It also makes little sense to be able to craft an upgrade of an item without having crafted the item being upgraded first.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    It also makes little sense to be able to craft an upgrade of an item without having crafted the item being upgraded first.

    This is video game sense I guess? Because I can't discern any other kind of sense in it.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    It also makes little sense to be able to craft an upgrade of an item without having crafted the item being upgraded first.

    This is video game sense I guess? Because I can't discern any other kind of sense in it.

    You build on top of an existing model like how they did precursors.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    It also makes little sense to be able to craft an upgrade of an item without having crafted the item being upgraded first.

    This is video game sense I guess? Because I can't discern any other kind of sense in it.

    You build on top of an existing model like how they did precursors.

    With precursors you take a part of the earlier design to use in the newer design. Totally different.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    It also makes little sense to be able to craft an upgrade of an item without having crafted the item being upgraded first.

    This is video game sense I guess? Because I can't discern any other kind of sense in it.

    You build on top of an existing model like how they did precursors.

    With precursors you take a part of the earlier design to use in the newer design. Totally different.

    If you look at the weapons, you’ll see that you’re doing that. The fact that they say “upgrade” should also be a good indicator.

  • Seeing what the new alternative is, i would have prefered using the old weapon as a crafting component, now we have a very expensive crafting component in place of the weapon, like the Stormcaller set for example, the last one use both the Draconic Lodestone and Stormcaller Core (Charged, not Volcanic, can't craft those), this makes each weapon cost almost 100g to make, i would have prefered to use the old weapons in place of the Draconic Lodestone, specially since the previous tier used the Lodestones lol.

    I made every weapon when the saga started, then they became gold sinks and i just don't bother anymore.

    There's also the fact they are all exotics, with Dragonsblood and Astral for example, you were not supossed to do them all at once, they have close to the same cost as these saga sets, but being Ascended means you can make them when you need a definitive weapon for a new toon or something, they are more expensive than normal ascended, but you get a nice skin as well, these saga weapons being all exotic just make them kinda worthless, you basically paying 100g for an item that will be trashed or mystic forged after unlocking the skin.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021

    I'm not understanding the logic here regarding the dragon slayer weapons. Players wanted better rewards for DRMs, now that the prismaticite crystals can be made into ingots and traded away there's an incentive to do them once you pass 480 crystals for the dragon slayer weapons plus 32 for the recipes for crimson/azure. If you're crafting crimson+azure as well it's about 1600 crystals on top and unless you are extremely patient or rolling in gold (about 3K gold in ingots) it would be painful to do it right now.

    The situation is somewhat mitigated by the new mastery adding additional crystals per DRM but a one hour timer essentially means you cannot do anything but DRMs on that character and must alternate between DRM sets (Primordus/Jormag).

    Volcanic Stormcaller weapons are a different story. The RNG is insane considering there is an optional mastery point , I've been doing DRMs more or less daily and have only gotten one to drop. Tyrian defense seals traded in for accountbound versions would be a solution to this in the long-term but the prices dropped quite a bit from when this thread was created. Having it in the "rare" section of Exalted and Deldrimor supply boxes contributed to the drop in prices but I suspect "rare" in that case is below 1% (BL chests around 3% rare).

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    I'm not understanding the logic here regarding the dragon slayer weapons. Players wanted better rewards for DRMs, now that the prismaticite crystals can be made into ingots and traded away there's an incentive to do them once you pass 480 crystals for the dragon slayer weapons plus 32 for the recipes for crimson/azure. If you're crafting crimson+azure as well it's about 1600 crystals on top and unless you are extremely patient or rolling in gold (about 3K gold in ingots) it would be painful to do it right now.

    Many people do not consider the Prismaticite to be incentive at all.
    Many people don't bother with even trying to craft the weapons to begins with.

    Putting the weapons themselves at decent drop rates into the missions as a reward might be enough of an incentive.
    Putting other items, that have a disgustingly low drop rate, like the invisible show box, at decent rates into the reward chest could make more people play them, too.

    Arenanet needs to stop padding Champion's lack of content with those grinds and put in actual value.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    I'm not understanding the logic here regarding the dragon slayer weapons. Players wanted better rewards for DRMs, now that the prismaticite crystals can be made into ingots and traded away there's an incentive to do them once you pass 480 crystals for the dragon slayer weapons plus 32 for the recipes for crimson/azure. If you're crafting crimson+azure as well it's about 1600 crystals on top and unless you are extremely patient or rolling in gold (about 3K gold in ingots) it would be painful to do it right now.

    Many people do not consider the Prismaticite to be incentive at all.
    Many people don't bother with even trying to craft the weapons to begins with.

    Putting the weapons themselves at decent drop rates into the missions as a reward might be enough of an incentive.
    Putting other items, that have a disgustingly low drop rate, like the invisible show box, at decent rates into the reward chest could make more people play them, too.

    Arenanet needs to stop padding Champion's lack of content with those grinds and put in actual value.

    Are you confusing Dragon slayer weapons with Volcanic Stormcaller?

    Dragon Slayer as well as Crimson and Azure upgraded versions which require CC usage to make aren't problematic on their own if you're just after one or two weapons. The only problematic parts are the rate of prismaticite crystals , the restrictive 1 hour bonus timer, as well as the hit-or-miss nature of public DRMs if you decide to go that route. The number of ingots required is excessive at current rates but there's no telling whether the next 2 sections of Champions add a crystal each per mastery level (see eitrite ingots at initial release as well as eternal ice shards which were readjusted).

    If you do 3 daily DRMs , then you get 5+4+3 and then 3 from the node which is 15 total. You need 30 crystals per Dragon Slayer weapon which is 480 total. That's roughly a month in the current state of things. The Champions living world continues at least for 2 more chapter story steps for March (Balance) and April (Judgment). This is sort of reminiscent of Heroic Dragonsblood weapons which took me months to complete (at least those are ascended) despite it being merely 3 serpentite jewels per weapon which you could do in several weeks if you wanted to. The time-gating on that was access to the Hoard which is linked to the mini-dungeons and the deldrimor plates.

    The upgraded tier Crimson/Azure ones are ludicrous on the other hand as you need 50 crystals each plus another 2 per recipe and they aren't even ascended. It is similar to 8,400  Kralkatite Ore for the Stellar weapons (which are ascended) if you try to do it post Istan drop changes without the help of eternal ice conversions.

    Compared to an easy strike mission such as Shiverpeak Pass, DRMs need to be roughly twice the profit given the time involved now that the ingots are not accountbound. If you compare to a low tier fractal that's not a daily you get about 4-5 encryptions in the same amount of time without fractal titles and that's without counting drops or accountbound fractal relics. Even something trivial such as the Casino Pinata is about 1.5 gold in 10 minutes or so if you only join at the Pinata.

    The only way to make the replay-ability better without increasing the prismaticite crystal drops is by making Tyrian Defense Seals have more rewards available such as accountbound Volcanic Stormcaller weapons. Currently there's a "rare" drop rate on Volcanic Stormcaller weapons from the supply boxes, which could mean anything from below 1% to something akin to 3% similar to Black Lion chests. The Deldrimor Stoneskin Infusion was a step in that direction.

    edit: see also Fast farming numbers with CMs enabled, DRMs are high at 30g/hour with CMs and an optimal comp (i.e. ~10 minutes)
    https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/dragon-response-mission

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    I'm not understanding the logic here regarding the dragon slayer weapons. Players wanted better rewards for DRMs, now that the prismaticite crystals can be made into ingots and traded away there's an incentive to do them once you pass 480 crystals for the dragon slayer weapons plus 32 for the recipes for crimson/azure. If you're crafting crimson+azure as well it's about 1600 crystals on top and unless you are extremely patient or rolling in gold (about 3K gold in ingots) it would be painful to do it right now.

    Many people do not consider the Prismaticite to be incentive at all.
    Many people don't bother with even trying to craft the weapons to begins with.

    Putting the weapons themselves at decent drop rates into the missions as a reward might be enough of an incentive.
    Putting other items, that have a disgustingly low drop rate, like the invisible show box, at decent rates into the reward chest could make more people play them, too.

    Arenanet needs to stop padding Champion's lack of content with those grinds and put in actual value.

    Are you confusing Dragon slayer weapons with Volcanic Stormcaller?

    Dragon Slayer as well as Crimson and Azure upgraded versions which require CC usage to make aren't problematic on their own if you're just after one or two weapons. The only problematic parts are the rate of prismaticite crystals , the restrictive 1 hour bonus timer, as well as the hit-or-miss nature of public DRMs if you decide to go that route. The number of ingots required is excessive at current rates but there's no telling whether the next 2 sections of Champions add a crystal each per mastery level (see eitrite ingots at initial release as well as eternal ice shards which were readjusted).

    If you do 3 daily DRMs , then you get 5+4+3 and then 3 from the node which is 15 total. You need 30 crystals per Dragon Slayer weapon which is 480 total. That's roughly a month in the current state of things. The Champions living world continues at least for 2 more chapter story steps for March (Balance) and April (Judgment). This is sort of reminiscent of Heroic Dragonsblood weapons which took me months to complete (at least those are ascended) despite it being merely 3 serpentite jewels per weapon which you could do in several weeks if you wanted to. The time-gating on that was access to the Hoard which is linked to the mini-dungeons and the deldrimor plates.

    The upgraded tier Crimson/Azure ones are ludicrous on the other hand as you need 50 crystals each plus another 2 per recipe and they aren't even ascended. It is similar to 8,400  Kralkatite Ore for the Stellar weapons (which are ascended) if you try to do it post Istan drop changes without the help of eternal ice conversions.

    Compared to an easy strike mission such as Shiverpeak Pass, DRMs need to be roughly twice the profit given the time involved now that the ingots are not accountbound. If you compare to a low tier fractal that's not a daily you get about 4-5 encryptions in the same amount of time without fractal titles and that's without counting drops or accountbound fractal relics. Even something trivial such as the Casino Pinata is about 1.5 gold in 10 minutes or so if you only join at the Pinata.

    The only way to make the replay-ability better without increasing the prismaticite crystal drops is by making Tyrian Defense Seals have more rewards available such as accountbound Volcanic Stormcaller weapons. Currently there's a "rare" drop rate on Volcanic Stormcaller weapons from the supply boxes, which could mean anything from below 1% to something akin to 3% similar to Black Lion chests. The Deldrimor Stoneskin Infusion was a step in that direction.

    edit: see also Fast farming numbers with CMs enabled, DRMs are high at 30g/hour with CMs and an optimal comp (i.e. ~10 minutes)
    https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/dragon-response-mission

    I didn't specify any weapon set.
    Seeing how many people seem to be put off by the needlessly expensive (or horrendously grindy, if they don't buy the materials) crafting of the weapons, Arenanet should put all the weapon collections' skins from Champions as possible DRM rewards at decent drop rates.
    The way it currently is, hardly any player will get them, effectively making them a waste of resources.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    If you do 3 daily DRMs , then you get 5+4+3 and then 3 from the node which is 15 total.

    I have only been getting two from the node. It still doesn’t change what you’re saying though.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    Tier 3 weapons are sitting at 85g per weapon (1 360g per set) and obviously 1 600 prismaticite crystals on top of that. Alternatively you can buy ingots from TP and pay 2 704g per weapon set :)
    Content I guess?

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    I personally don’t consider rewards items to be content.

    Edit:

    Made a change as to further iterate the intent of this post as people got so hyper fixated on what is a reward and I really didn’t have any desire to argue over that.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.

  • @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    How can you not label these weapons as rewards, the moment you salvage them you get a solid 1% of value out of them "maybe" :D

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.

    You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.

    You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

    Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

    Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

    I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    I like how people have resorted to their own definitions of 'content', 'rewards', etc ... to justify how EVERYONE ELSE should label and regard these weapon collections.

    Bottomline: Crafting IS content because it's a game activity. Anyone that argues otherwise has an agenda.

    Abuse from people that tell you how to play is not a reason to change a class in a game that is designed and works to allow you to play how you want.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    So it's something you've got to work for but isn't a requirement for anything. Hmmmm, what could be the solution for such problem? If you want to do it, do it, if you don't wanna do it, don't cry about it, forget about it and don't do it.

    People already get your point.

    No one is crying about anything.

    They are simply serving the purpose of a consumer feedback forum for a company, by telling that company how they feel about recent content compared to older content. And in the recent case of these new IBS weapon sets, the company needs all the feedback they can get.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I like how people have resorted to their own definitions of 'content', 'rewards', etc ... to justify how EVERYONE ELSE should label and regard these weapon collections.

    Bottomline: Crafting IS content because it's a game activity. Anyone that argues otherwise has an agenda.

    Well the action of going to a crafting station to exchange items for something is really no different than going to a vendor to exchange items for something else. So I guess the only rewards in this game are drops and stuff that you loot? Anything else that uses something as a middleman is just content?

    Crafting is just additional "content" to get a reward which wouldn't have been possible to get without doing the content tied to it. Really no different from interacting with an NPC to exchange some currency for another item. Both require another action in order to get the final reward which drives players to do the content they are attached to.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.

    You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

    Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

    Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

    I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

    Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

    Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

    The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.

    I'll still reiterate my original statement for the third time so that it doesn't get lost: the weapon sets are not content.

    Here another thing I just saw. The keys for the exalted chests have a gold cost (24 copper) from the vendor along with the lump of aurillium. So by your definition, any loot from chests opened with these bought keys, rather than the ones obtained from events, doesn't count as rewards. There was a price tag associated with those purchased keys and by your definition, rewards don't come with a price tag.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.

    You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

    Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

    Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

    I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

    Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

    Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

    The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.

    Don't twist yourself into nonsensical extremes, it does nothing for your case. Something requiring the expenditure of hundreds if not thousands of gold, either liquid or in resource value, is not a reward. About that Istan farm example, what you eventually do with the rewards you get for participating, are just purchases and perhaps eventually gold earned through sales. If I walk out into Queensdale, kill some low level critters, and use the copper I get to buy a 4 slot leather bag, the copper is the reward, not the bag.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.

    You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

    Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

    Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

    I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

    Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

    Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

    The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.

    Don't twist yourself into nonsensical extremes, it does nothing for your case. Something requiring the expenditure of hundreds if not thousands of gold, either liquid or in resource value, is not a reward. About that Istan farm example, what you eventually do with the rewards you get for participating, are just purchases and perhaps eventually gold earned through sales. If I walk out into Queensdale, kill some low level critters, and use the copper I get to buy a 4 slot leather bag, the copper is the reward, not the bag.

    Many rewards can have costs associated with them with these costs not suddenly excluding them from that because they pass some arbitrary threshold that you're not comfortably spending All of this still doesn't matter as my original point was that those weapons are not content. Whatever you want to personally call them, they're not content.

    As far as nonsensical extremes, I wasn't using those. I was taking what you said which was "Rewards don't come with a price tag". Whether it's a small price tag, or a large one, it's still a price tag.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.

    You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

    Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

    Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

    I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

    Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

    Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

    The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.

    Don't twist yourself into nonsensical extremes, it does nothing for your case. Something requiring the expenditure of hundreds if not thousands of gold, either liquid or in resource value, is not a reward. About that Istan farm example, what you eventually do with the rewards you get for participating, are just purchases and perhaps eventually gold earned through sales. If I walk out into Queensdale, kill some low level critters, and use the copper I get to buy a 4 slot leather bag, the copper is the reward, not the bag.

    Many rewards can have costs associated with them with these costs not suddenly excluding them from that because they pass some arbitrary threshold that you're not comfortably spending All of this still doesn't matter as my original point was that those weapons are not content. Whatever you want to personally call them, they're not content.

    As far as nonsensical extremes, I wasn't using those. I was taking what you said which was "Rewards don't come with a price tag". Whether it's a small price tag, or a large one, it's still a price tag.

    The Istan example is interesting to pick apart. If I understand you correctly, you trade in the volatile magic, with some gold thrown in, for material boxes, and you then sell the materials? The gold you make is what you consider the reward?

    I also buy those boxes, but never sell the materials. I use the t5 and the t6 fine materials for legendary crafting. The reward in this process is the same for both of us: the proceeds from the Istan meta. This reward is the means to get something we want. I want materials, you want gold, but neither are a reward. What we do with the proceeds from the meta is exactly the same as what we do when we buy a 4 slot bag with the handful of copper we earned from killing critters in Queensdale, and I certainly wouldn't consider that bag a reward.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I like how people have resorted to their own definitions of 'content', 'rewards', etc ... to justify how EVERYONE ELSE should label and regard these weapon collections.

    Bottomline: Crafting IS content because it's a game activity. Anyone that argues otherwise has an agenda.

    Well the action of going to a crafting station to exchange items for something is really no different than going to a vendor to exchange items for something else. So I guess the only rewards in this game are drops and stuff that you loot? Anything else that uses something as a middleman is just content?

    Crafting is just additional "content" to get a reward which wouldn't have been possible to get without doing the content tied to it. Really no different from interacting with an NPC to exchange some currency for another item. Both require another action in order to get the final reward which drives players to do the content they are attached to.

    Again, not arguing the subtle details of what people do and don't consider content. The fact is that someone or many people in this thread want to be outraged by expensive crafting results ... and the cleverest way they could think to do that was to start a 'discussion' about what is and isn't content. Frankly, it's rather absurd considering this isn't some new idea in this game. Anyone ever heard of Legendary weapons?

    You don't consider weapon sets content? It doesn't matter what any specific group of people think; the game doesn't cater to them. Some people do. Anet provides content over a WIDE range.

    Abuse from people that tell you how to play is not a reason to change a class in a game that is designed and works to allow you to play how you want.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    The main problem I have with these collections is that Arenanet locked another mastery point behind these stupidly grindy collections.

    That's just another mastery point I will never get.

    Been already mentioned several, many times before, ever since Skyscale collection :
    Anet, people don't enjoy long, grindy achievements.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I personally don’t consider rewards to be content.

    And I don't consider those weapons to be rewards. :)

    They’re something you get for doing the content they’re attached to. That’s no different than any other non-droppable rewards.

    You don't get them for doing the content, you're only rewarded with the privilege to spend resources on crafting them.

    Then legendary armor are not rewards for raids. The legendary accessories are not rewards for completing their respective season collections. The Ad Infinitum back item, and whatever the sPvP one was called, are not a reward for completing their respective collections. Many of the weapons available in HoT were locked behind recipes only available by doing the metas so those must not be rewards then as well.

    Whether you directly get them or not doesn’t matter as you cannot get them without doing their respective content.

    I also bring up my original point that rewards are not content.

    Right, none of those things are rewards. They're objectives to achieve. Rewards don't come with a price tag. Anything that comes with additional cost is not a reward.

    Rewards don’t come with a price tag? Ok. I’ll hold you to that as by your definition, rewards are drops only whether from enemies directly or from loot chests.

    The reward for the old Istan farm isn’t the gold you get from materials you get from the crates at the vendor but the volatile magic itself. Got it. How foolish of me to think otherwise.

    Don't twist yourself into nonsensical extremes, it does nothing for your case. Something requiring the expenditure of hundreds if not thousands of gold, either liquid or in resource value, is not a reward. About that Istan farm example, what you eventually do with the rewards you get for participating, are just purchases and perhaps eventually gold earned through sales. If I walk out into Queensdale, kill some low level critters, and use the copper I get to buy a 4 slot leather bag, the copper is the reward, not the bag.

    Many rewards can have costs associated with them with these costs not suddenly excluding them from that because they pass some arbitrary threshold that you're not comfortably spending All of this still doesn't matter as my original point was that those weapons are not content. Whatever you want to personally call them, they're not content.

    As far as nonsensical extremes, I wasn't using those. I was taking what you said which was "Rewards don't come with a price tag". Whether it's a small price tag, or a large one, it's still a price tag.

    The Istan example is interesting to pick apart. If I understand you correctly, you trade in the volatile magic, with some gold thrown in, for material boxes, and you then sell the materials? The gold you make is what you consider the reward?

    It's something players were able to obtain by doing the meta. It didn't matter that there were some additional, intermediary steps between the meta event itself and the gold. If an item is only acquirable from doing a certain piece of content, wouldn't that item be considered a reward? Yes, there are also rewards which you get directly from the meta itself but I don't see drops as being the only thing considered a reward.

    I also buy those boxes, but never sell the materials. I use the t5 and the t6 fine materials for legendary crafting. The reward in this process is the same for both of us: the proceeds from the Istan meta. This reward is the means to get something we want. I want materials, you want gold, but neither are a reward. What we do with the proceeds from the meta is exactly the same as what we do when we buy a 4 slot bag with the handful of copper we earned from killing critters in Queensdale, and I certainly wouldn't consider that bag a reward.

    The reward doesn't have to be monetary. Instead of gold, you got fine mats. Those doing both the Champions collections get ascended weapons, new skins, and AP. There's also the off chance that if there's a legendary trinket tied to LS5, it'd require a small number of those weapons unlocked.

    The reasoning you just gave for materials and gold not being a reward can easily be applied towards the actual drops which you consider rewards. You dismissed the fine mats as rewards because you used them for legendary crafting. Would you have also dismissed them if they dropped from the meta itself?

    It's all about what value you get from doing something. Certainly with these collections, the cost of finally obtaining those weapons is too high to be worth it for some players. That's certainly understandable and definitely a reason that players no longer do some content in the game. That value is going to be different from player to player. I completed those collections simply because I'm a completionist.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I like how people have resorted to their own definitions of 'content', 'rewards', etc ... to justify how EVERYONE ELSE should label and regard these weapon collections.

    Bottomline: Crafting IS content because it's a game activity. Anyone that argues otherwise has an agenda.

    Well the action of going to a crafting station to exchange items for something is really no different than going to a vendor to exchange items for something else. So I guess the only rewards in this game are drops and stuff that you loot? Anything else that uses something as a middleman is just content?

    Crafting is just additional "content" to get a reward which wouldn't have been possible to get without doing the content tied to it. Really no different from interacting with an NPC to exchange some currency for another item. Both require another action in order to get the final reward which drives players to do the content they are attached to.

    Again, not arguing the subtle details of what people do and don't consider content. The fact is that someone or many people in this thread want to be outraged by expensive crafting results ... and the cleverest way they could think to do that was to start a 'discussion' about what is and isn't content. Frankly, it's rather absurd considering this isn't some new idea in this game. Anyone ever heard of Legendary weapons?

    I don't blame them for being outraged. I, myself, was annoyed when they essentially kept doubling the amount of crystals/ingots needed which prompted me to just buy all of the ingots instead less the amount that I would get from completing the achievements.

    You don't consider weapon sets content? It doesn't matter what any specific group of people think; the game doesn't cater to them. Some people do. Anet provides content over a WIDE range.

    No, I don't. I see content as more of doing that you do* rather than something that you **obtain. If Anet advertised a huge content drop after a drought, and all they did was add a ton of new skins through a vendor, how would players react? Would there be outcries of being misled?

  • ScyeRynn.4218ScyeRynn.4218 Member ✭✭✭

    These weps are ugly af. Why would anyone waste time and money on these when you can have a legendary?

  • @Swagger.1459 said:

    This is what we call an optional material sink. Material sinks like these are necessary for the game.

    what materials? only the ingots? where are the masses of algemated dragon Iod stone that i need to dumb apparently. nowhere.
    the majority of people do not need a material dumb at all.

  • an further more if it was only ONE weapons set that this expensive I think people would be less up in arms about it.
    the fact they have dumbed so many weapon set in these few episodes alone in which ONE already requires the entire sage time to actually be completed is down right insane. not to mention they all need the same stupidly low drop rate draconic Lodstone.
    you can craft them? well only if i get 2 Lodstones through drops first allowing me to craft boreal weapons so i can get the achievement award.
    Buy them? well then you just agree what people said in critic about the dragon slayer and storm caller weapons.

    and thats just the craftable ones. we also have two tengu sets as well. and NON of them are ascended
    YES someone pointed this out: the dragons blood weapons are actually a good upgrade, they actually give you a ascended weapon, something you want if you are not going for legendarys yet. any other set in IBS? exotic exotic exotic. you do NOT pay thousands of gold for exotic weapon skins. the only ones are either unique one without a set attached to them OR precursors and even those are not exceeding 500 gold.

    its way to many sets for way to low weapon quality for to much gold in one living world season/saga

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    it is nice, we have 2 new weapon collections more after patch "Balance".
    It is great I am sure.

    @ShroomOneUp.6913 said:
    same stupidly low drop rate

    use Trading Post. Is solves all problems.

    you do NOT pay thousands of gold for exotic weapon skins.

    I pay. It is fun.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • @ScyeRynn.4218 said:
    These weps are ugly af. Why would anyone waste time and money on these when you can have a legendary?

    Pretty much this. The moment I checked out the fiery sword I was like what is this garbo, half the size of the shining blade (and yeah i like large 1h swords) and nothing fancy coming along with it. The glow is almost non-existant and the weapons have nothing mindblowing on them which would justify the ridiculous cost.
    Heck even volcanic stormcallers look MUUUUCH better and cost only a small finger compared to the dragon slayer sets.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    No, I don't. I see content as more of doing that you do* rather than something that you **obtain. If Anet advertised a huge content drop after a drought, and all they did was add a ton of new skins through a vendor, how would players react? Would there be outcries of being misled?

    Maybe ... but that's not what we got here, so that scenario doesn't apply. I think the important thing here to recognize is that there is stuff in a game we might not like ... but it's not about me, or you. It's about how this game must appeal to a larger population to maintain the business. Some people think crafting is great. Some people like the skins. Not everything put in this game has to appeal to everyone. It can't. The data will tell Anet if it's a bad idea to do things this way. The data tells them what the population likes and doesn't like.

    Abuse from people that tell you how to play is not a reason to change a class in a game that is designed and works to allow you to play how you want.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Cutting the quote tree down a bit.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    The Istan example is interesting to pick apart. If I understand you correctly, you trade in the volatile magic, with some gold thrown in, for material boxes, and you then sell the materials? The gold you make is what you consider the reward?

    It's something players were able to obtain by doing the meta. It didn't matter that there were some additional, intermediary steps between the meta event itself and the gold. If an item is only acquirable from doing a certain piece of content, wouldn't that item be considered a reward? Yes, there are also rewards which you get directly from the meta itself but I don't see drops as being the only thing considered a reward.

    But how many intermediate steps can we make before we stop considering something a reward for doing a certain thing? Just the 2 you're using? Or can we go further? If I turn volatile magic gained from an event into materials, sell those materials for gold, use that gold to craft a legendary weapon, salvage that weapon for a ball of dark energy, refine that ball into a cube, use that cube to make a gift of the mist, use that gift to create a legendary weapon, is that legendary now a reward I got for doing a meta event? Is every item I can buy or craft that requires a bit of gold along the way now suddenly a reward for doing the Istan meta? The concept of reward has completely lost all meaning.

    I also buy those boxes, but never sell the materials. I use the t5 and the t6 fine materials for legendary crafting. The reward in this process is the same for both of us: the proceeds from the Istan meta. This reward is the means to get something we want. I want materials, you want gold, but neither are a reward. What we do with the proceeds from the meta is exactly the same as what we do when we buy a 4 slot bag with the handful of copper we earned from killing critters in Queensdale, and I certainly wouldn't consider that bag a reward.

    The reward doesn't have to be monetary. Instead of gold, you got fine mats. Those doing both the Champions collections get ascended weapons, new skins, and AP. There's also the off chance that if there's a legendary trinket tied to LS5, it'd require a small number of those weapons unlocked.

    The reasoning you just gave for materials and gold not being a reward can easily be applied towards the actual drops which you consider rewards. You dismissed the fine mats as rewards because you used them for legendary crafting. Would you have also dismissed them if they dropped from the meta itself?

    I dismissed the fine materials because they're simply not a reward by any stretch of the imagination. I BUY them. I use the reward from activities that grant volatile magic for that.

    It's all about what value you get from doing something. Certainly with these collections, the cost of finally obtaining those weapons is too high to be worth it for some players. That's certainly understandable and definitely a reason that players no longer do some content in the game. That value is going to be different from player to player. I completed those collections simply because I'm a completionist.

    It's not about that at all. It's simple semantics. A reward isn't something you have to pay for.